Yesterday I was in a MX5 practice session. I was ahead most of the time. Until a guy named Scott Mansell came in. I was like "wtf, this name sounds familiar". This Scott obliterated my lap time by about 6 tenths. I did not even knew it was possible to find that much time at Okoyama. Yeah, today I know why ! I just remembered where I heard about this Scott... Absolute respect mate, you are so fucking legit. A legend. Cheers, hope to see you in a race some day.
Bad news for you... I think that wasn't the right Scott Mansell, he's "Scot Mansell2" on iRacing...doesn't look like he's raced Okayama. members.iracing.com/membersite/member/CareerStats.do?custid=417182
I'm seeing a lot of people rushing to defend the pink Ferrari in the first clip, however, this is a clear cut case by iRacing's sporting code: 8.1.1.4. Blocking -The leading driver is allowed to run a defensive line. However, blocking occurs when a leading driver actively adjusts his or her driving line based on the actions and/or positioning of a pursuing driver. For example, veering left to prevent a pursuing driver from passing on the left while running on a straight. The Ferrari got what was coming to him for not reading the rules.
it is not blocking you are allowed one blocking move. then if the porsche goes right n he moves again its blocking. the porsche should of backed out and tried again next lap and done a nice fake left go right move.
@@zachemorgan You sound quite confident about this, maybe you can direct me to that part of the iRacing sporting code. The part where it directly contradicts what I copy/pasted from it above.
@@zachemorgan "im going from f1s rule book." So you just race according to whatever rule you made up in your head, or cherry pick rules you like from whatever rulebook? In your world, F1 drivers would be crashing all the time claiming "They do that in Formula E/Touring cars/Karting etc". "It's not even racing." "iracing code is simply wrong" No, what's not racing is turning up with your own special set of rules, different to everyone elses and claiming superiority. It can't be wrong. It's their service, their rules. "not going from iracing code thats not real racing" Why are you here then? The title gave it away, no? "Race Driver Reacts to Your Sim Racing SHUNTS"
BS.. the car in the back has to avoid the accident... the porsche wasnt next to the ferrari and the porsche should have expected him to block... just back off a bit, and voila, no incident.
The Safety Car Agree, however the car behind had such a run, as soon as the other car is committed to the left, just go right. It was a bit naive to continue going forward, even though pink was very shitty as there must have been 10 KPH delta on a straight.
@@jenscee7679 yeah, move from the pink car gave the Porsche very little time to avoid contact, which they tried by moving to the right. Could've been done earlier though that is true and they probably should've lifted, but overall because the pink car caused the situation. I'd call this type of thing a racing incident overall. Nobody is entirely at fault.
tbh, the second sound feed sounded like it was coming from the laptop mic but it was cleaner than the main camera audio ( the room needs a bit of sound deadening! )
In the first incident the pink Ferrari blocked the Porsche as per iRacing rules: 8.1.1.4. Blocking - The leading driver is allowed to run a defensive line. However, blocking occurs when a leading driver actively adjusts his or her driving line based on the actions and/or positioning of a pursuing driver. For example, veering left to prevent a pursuing driver from passing on the left while running on a straight. I believe that's basically the same as in most road racing series'. But yeah the Porsche should've been able to avoid contact there imo.
still the porsches fault to me the lead car can almost never be at fault even in a situation like this. the porscshe should of just backed out try again next lap maybe be a bit tricky since u know you have a blocker and go right then left.
@@zachemorgan Oh yeah, like I said. Just because the other car broke the rules doesn't justify him breaking them. Not that I think it was intentional though.
The ferrari was a bit naught but pragmatically, the porshe ended it's own race. In racing even if you're right, you can still be wrong, be pragmatic, pull out when the dumb guy does a stupid move. If you got up on his bumper once, you can do it again.
How are you all so dense? He quoted the subsection of the iRacing sporting code that literally says that the Ferrari broke the rules. It's literally protestable to block. Ferrari is objectively at fault here, absolutely no room for argument.
@@bikeparkdave7560 In iRacing you get your 4x for any contact anyway and if you report an incident, it must be obvious that the over guy hit you on purpose anyway.
@@bikeparkdave7560 I don't like iRacing and prefer ACC by far online. Since there is no iRating-pressure to end up well, people are pretty cautious and absolutely great racing there. When people block you, they normally fail every second lap anyway and just stay behind to take the opportunity.
If there's one thing I've learned it's that to a lot of folks in sim racing you aren't defending unless you've got one wheel on the white line. Half a car width seems to be considered "door wide open".
It can be, though usually only fools try that move, unless you have better track knowledge and can pull the move off safely. If referencing that Road Atlanta contact, well the 'BMW' which was actually a Merc, was looking to pass aggressively and the Kraken Merc should have just let him through due to personal safety if nothing else. The other Merc would have crashed into another car later anyway :D
A fools errand that will never work, you'd either cause a wreck or not gain the position and cost both drivers more time than necessary. Only a moron would even attempt a move like that.
Avoiding circumstances where incidents can occur is as important as avoiding incidents, its like flying a plane, don't put yourself in a position yr brain hasn't been to already.
First case i could call as a fault of the Pink car. The following driver might not have had enough time to react that the guy in front of him is actually so close (at least i can't react fast enough to situations like that)
Hey guys I was in the porsche in the first clip. The guy in front of me was adamant on defending very late and had been doing the same for the last two laps. I got a run on him before t3 at Road Ameria and moved left to go inside, he made a very late block which is anyways illegal according to the sporting code, fair defending would've been when he defended the inside line before I moved left. Anyways, I'm on a single laptop screen playing with a fucked up fov so maybe that contributed to me misjudging the gap and speed between us, and I accept that even though I had like a fraction of a second to lift I could've done that, I was a bit agressive at the time cause the ferrari was provoking me really bad over voice, he basically told me to pass him if I think "I'm so fucking fast" when I politely asked him earlier in the race if he thinks the way he is defending is okay. I don't regret that incident though as he later tried to intentionally take me out when he was lapped and used racial slurs when he couldn't.
Despite what some folks here seem to think, you were absolutely in the clear as per the sporting code. I figure this was week 5 IMSA so it's too late now, but I hope you at least protested for voice abuse if not for the block. This is exactly the reason I have voice muted permanently.
Agree with every analysis but the last one, the trailing car had no business trying to force that dive bomb and the leading car defended perfectly adequately; only a maniac goes all the way to the right considering the long straight in the next section.
9:03 that mercedes took a VERY defensive line, the bmw should have taken the normal line to get a good setup for turn 7 and therefore a better run down the back straight imo
both dumb drivers really, BMW committed to a gap that was only inches wider than his own car BUT the Merc did leave the incentive wide open for just such an idiot (impatient driver confirmed by the massive shunt a few corners back) probably C licence holders anyway.
@@Delimon007 its iRacing dude, if you get punted and nearly dive bombed the corner previously and then you defend super hard against that person instead of just letting them through you're asking to be punted off. let the idiots through and they will spin off before the end of the race every time
According to iRacing sporting code: 8.1.1.4. Blocking -The leading driver is allowed to run a defensive line. However, blocking occurs when a leading driver actively adjusts his or her driving line based on the actions and/or positioning of a pursuing driver. For example, veering left to prevent a pursuing driver from passing on the left while running on a straight. So according to the code the pink Ferrari is at fault.
The first one was definitely on the Pink Car. Allowed to or not, he put his car in that position way late into the other driver’s maneuver. Had he let the other car go, both would have raced on. The number one rule of racing, “To finish first, first you have to finish”. There is still some blame on the driver behind for hitting the punk car as he passed, don’t get me wrong. But the Pink Car made a choice to force the other driver to make a choice... that’s where it was a terrible decision from the start.
Hey i've just started sim racing as apposed to years of only sim drifting. i've decided to go with f1 cars, as I just find them easier to race. so after 4days so far i've managed to nab a podium with a fair time around Laguna seca. could send in a video for you to just give some tips on what i need to improve on?
First Incident: According to the iRacing sporting regulation you are not allowed to block by reacting to another drivers movements. Pink car moved after the white car, so in iRacing context, the pink car is to blame. This would only be the white cars fault it the pink car moved first. But what the white car does is foolish, as it could have been avoided, but I am sure it was not on purpose, he just got a little too close.
Car to blame: 1. Pink for blocking 2. Pink car for moving across 3. Blue car chopped 4. LMP, drove into Mustang's racing line 5. Nissan 6. Yellow and Black car, divebomb
I dunno for the first one I think I would go with 50/50, or even front car blame. Had the front car been following his standard line, I would place the blame more on the rear car, but since the front car was attempting defensive maneuvers i.e. weaving across the track, instead of following the line, I think there is something to be said for the lead car attempting a maneuver that he seemingly knew would lead to a collision. You have to consider the fact that the rear car was drafting and building speed for an overtake, and was visibly traveling faster that the front car. To attempt that defensive weave at those speeds at that close of proximity was negligently dangerous on the lead cars behalf, and you can see the rear car try to correct by switching sides. The front car essentially brake checked him at 150mph with absolutely no room or time for correction.
1st one (for me) depends on what the race situation was... were there only a few laps to run? Was pink fresh out of the pits? Or was it in the first 10 minutes of a 40+minute race. To me, it makes a difference... but as it stands, the defensive move, although late, was ok.
the first incident, I think it is important to remmember that the driver behind is probably using a single screen so he wouldn't see the ferrari until he crossed his window. I would say the Ferrari is to blame with a very late aggressive move.
The mustang should have seen that coming a mile away. He obviously wanted to pass him as quickly as possible, instead of slowing both of you down just give him the inside and move on, he was definitely close enough to take the inside there. I also looked at it again, it wasn't a dive up the inside, he made it clear he was taking the inside line, the mustang cut him off. He needs to pay attention to his surroundings and react accordingly. Edit: Something I want to know, did he have mirrors, a way to look back, could he hear him etc.? If these aren't things in the game then that's kinda broken and that makes it impossible to do a multi class race without an incident. Also the LMP cars line through there was atrocious if he was trying to perform an inside pass.
1. Road American, pink Ferrari's fault by blocking Porsche on straight. 2. Suzuka, pink BMW's fault, he wanted to be fast for the incoming chicane but miscalculated the space for the other BMW. 3. Nordschleife, kinda blue Mercedes' fault, more tend to a car incident. The blue Mercedes might turn in too much, but if he didn't turn that much he might crash to the railing (since that was the left-hander right after a long straight before the first carousel). Anyways, overtaking in Nordschleife is a risky move, if the car at the back is better, he could qualify better rather than trying to win on the first lap, he could've follow the car in front then overtake on the long straight at the last part of the track. Sending it has a huge huge huge possibility of ruining others and his race. 4. Donington, I would say Mustang GT4's fault, he received a blue flag from the LMP3, he could've given the inside line to the LMP3, but the LMP3 didn't flash, and too confident that the Mustang would give him the way. 5.Hungaroring (maybe?), GTR's fault. 6. Road Atlanta, Mercedes' fault, the BMW M8 is in GTE class, the Mercedes AMG GT3 is in GT3 class, the Mercedes must be lapped by the BMW and received a blue flag, but the Mercedes was still fighting BMW, he should've moved to the left and give way. Even the Mercedes and the BMW are on the same lap, the car has a slower lap time shouldn't fight the other class, there is no benefit from doing so.
The 5:25 clip, the Ford must have had blue flag warnings beforehand, he should have known to leave the space and be aware of the faster car. If he was informed, it's clearly the Ford's fault, if not, that's a racing incident. Also the first incident is also a racing one, both drivers equally at fault, it's more or less what Danny and Max did in Baku.
Hi D61, I’m wondering how “real“ force feedback is and how you can set it up to be “more real“ in any game. Also, appreciate the informative content, your way of teaching is very insightful! Cheers
I don't think that Porsche driver in the first clip had enough time to lift. The Ferrari's maneuver was way too sudden for the Porsche driver to compensate especially since the Ferrari forced the Porsche back into it's tow.
Concerning the first incident. The Porsche is not obliged to let off the throttle to accommodate for a blocking move. The move was late, was aggressive, served him well ending up in the wall. Choose your side and stick to it, wanna play clever eat some dust. I won't lift off because you want to block. IRL he would have lifted off to avoid a big crash but in simracing you don't die and don't spend money on repairs so there you go. Sticking to your line is fair racing, what the guy did was "I block so you don't pass", like gtfo.
Pink Ferrari fault full stop. Why should the Porsche back out of the throttle with aggressive defending form the Ferrari. If he backs out of the throttle he wont get the overtake done
1. Racing incident, more Ferrari's fault. 2. Pink Bimmer's fault for coming across. 3. Racing incident. 4. Racing incident. 5. Godzilla's fault. 6. AMG trying to overtake's fault.
Nice to know that I agree with you or you with me on all counts .... bar one point. First incident is 100% the pink cars fault not just because of the late (rude) block but also because the guy behind can't be blamed for contact on switching to the other side because this is sim racing - irl you would lift and complain to your team over the radio because of danger to life. In sim racing you have no such fear so will always, always, risk a touch to keep the move going. So I think you are slightly in error to judge a sim racing incident by real life standards. Sim racing is always more aggressive. It's bound to be.
>can't be blamed for contact on switching to the other side because this is sim racing This is absolute nonsense and part of the cancer of sim racers everywhere. For the love of god stop thinking like this.
Mustang should have known the lmp was there. Game gives a blue flag and the lmp was right on his ass before going to the left to take inside line. No reason for mustang to commit to normal line in that moment besides being purely hyper focused on himself and ignoring his mirror (rear view mirror shows massive amount) and ignoring the blue flag being given probably a few corners before till that incident.
First one is 100% the pink cars fault. The car was in the toe and made the move. It's the pink cars job to respect that. He can counter by squeezing, what he did was blocking which is clearly illegal. He has no one to blame but himself for his crappy racing.
You can pretty much see which driver is going to be the problem, by watching their movement before the incident. One car drive straight and smooth, another car back and forth, erratic, all over the place. Hmm. I wonder which of these people is going to cause problems?
1:44 I think the Porsche is at fault because the Ferrari was simply defending and the Porsche was too quick to pull out and too slow to back off and also too slow to react.
Direct from iRacing's sporting code: 8.1.1.4.Blocking -The leading driver is allowed to run a defensive line. However, blocking occurs when a leading driver actively adjusts his or her driving line based on the actions and/or positioning of a pursuing driver. For example, veering left to prevent a pursuing driver from passing on the left while running on a straight.
Even if you think about it in f1 way and not iracing's way, he moved way too late. The car behind could have avoided the inciddent so it has some fault but pink guy messed up.
Don't really see weaving in the that first one. He moves to the left, he does so to late. But he's not moving back to the right again. Porsche should've idd lifted. These are the kind of things that in real life racing you would get a big fat warning for maybe even a time penalty because of blocking or unsafe driving. In games offcourse there are no such marshels. If you keep pulling that shit you will get turned around.
This is why I never play any multiplayer, whether it's a sim or an arcade game. It's full of unsportive ego's trying to get in front asap. Too frustrating to me to deal with these guys.
First clip: I have to disagree with you there. I believe that the pink Ferrari is at fault for such a late maneuver as well as it being reactive to the car behind. Thus this could be argued as blocking, even though it isn't in a braking zone which it doesn't have to be. The Porsche trailing behind could've backed down off of the throttle, but the driver may not have anticipate this maneuver and most likely went right to avoid contact rather than just outright plow into them. It might be a fine line here, but the Porsche clearly had a run on the Ferrari, and the Ferrari reacted (key word) to the situation. Second Clip: Agreed. Third clip: Agreed. Fourth clip: Agreed. Also, something to keep on mind. Often in certain series, it is the responsibility of the faster to pass safely, and it is the responsibility of the slower car to help facilitate the pass for those who are unaware. Fifth clip: Not sure about this one. The Aston looked like it was somewhat unstable at one point as it seemed to have a slight twitch (minor oversteer moment that resulted in minor countersteering) which slowed it down a bit and wasn't accelerating out of the corner like normal. The GTR probably couldn't anticipate this in time, taking his normal braking and line at the corner. Maybe the GTR could've done a bit more to avoid the incident but without more camera angles, it's a tricky one. Sixth clip: Agreed.
From a racing viewpoint the Fez in the first clip is more at fault than the Porsche. However he was correct that the Porsche could have lifted, but even then we can't know he didn't (no replay). From a racecraft viewpoint, if the Fez wanted to cover the inside, it should have been there long before the Porsche thought of overtaking. Porsche didn't really do much wrong until the potential failure to lift, though with the block from the Fez it's hard to pin it on the Porsche driver.
In the last clip very important thing is that that is not fight of same class but GT3 AMG vs M8 GTE and I think behavior of AMG was super unnecessary. First incident they had was M8s fault for sure.
First one it was the Porsche's fault Second one it kinda was the fuchsia one... kinda as you can move under braking but you have to always leave a space. and you defend your position by taking the inside so he didn't need to go left. more over on the 3 corners chicane they were about to go through. Fourth one is definitely the LMP's fault as his line was off too... Last one is the behind Mercedes' fault
First incident is the fault of the driver who's blocking. Besides, blocking isn't allowed in iRacing. Sure the guy trying to pass *could* have backed-down, but he tried to get into a clear line instead. It's a matter of which avoidance strategy do you use. The car behind could have also just held his speed and line and given the blocking car a shove. But the blocking car broke the rules and deserved what he got. I agree with the conclusion of the second incident. Guy shouldn't have moved up the track with another car still there. Third one was just a racing incident. The car on the inside and the car on the outside had different ideas of what the side-by-side line was through that corner. I agree with the conclusion of the fourth incident. Faster classes should wait until they're out of the esses to try to overtake slower classes. I agree with the conclusion of the fifth incident. Driver in front should just focus on his line. Driver in back should make sure he doesn't hit the guy in front of him. With the sixth incident, the guy trying to pass is at fault. The guy defending was not blocking this time, but he was holding a defensive line. It is the responsibility of the car trying to pass to safely get alongside the other car. Once he does get alongside, then both cars have the responsibility of racing cleanly.
IMO first one in real life maybe referee decision but in sim racing has to be pink's fault. Most of the time track penalties are automated and would be a nightmare if that kind of blocking is allowed.
First one. Blame the Ferrari all the way. They're slow and don't react(edit: forgot to add in the wrong spot in the middle blocking a pass on either side). Then react too late causing a collision when getting passed. 2ND. Trailing BMW makes all attempts to not cause accident while being pushed off track by lead car which should know they were there. 3rd. I disagree to pin this on the blue car(it's a bold move, yes). This is simply an accident with no fault to either and both could've given more room. Especially the inside car which was slower at the point and lost position. Both are responsible to make it through safely. 4. Unlike N1, yet similar because it was late. The faster car still has to make the pass on the Mustang safely despite it being the fast part of track. Plenty of space to set up better. 5. Dirty punt by the Nissan. 6. Merc does a good job defending. Fault is on the BMW 100% regardless of the Merc not using the full track.
First interaction, pink car did nothing wrong, by the rules. He's allowed to make a defense and the following car has no claim to the lane as his entire car is behind the pink car. 2nd and 3rd assessment I agree with you. LMP definately at fault. His maneuver was never going to finish well. At best he would have put himself off the track because he was too shallow for 2 cars being in that corner to make the s curve. I see what goes on between bmw and merc all the time. People trying to do a job that requires 2 or 3 turns in 1 turn. Would like to see driver ratings and account life data here because I'd be willing to bet the BMW driver is still new in comparison. A more seasoned driver would have done just as you said. Widen the line by moving to the left then undercutting the corner to get the run on the straight. Slow in Fast out rules followed almost always dictate that the actual over-take occurs on the exit of the corner, not the entrance or apex.
It wasn't a defensive move however. When one moves in reaction to the car behind and they are close enough, then it's a block. Porsche had clear overspeed (from draft) and the move made was a valid one by the Porsche. However the Fez moved too late to be a defensive move, it was a direct block. Porsche might have been able to lift a bit more before trying to switch back, but even then at real time speed, there wasn't much time to react especially for lower than top split drivers, which this looks like it was. Racecraft wise, the Ferrari should have been on the inside line before the Porsche could make a move, that forces the Porsche to the outside of the braking zone into T5 at Road America. Ferrari had left the door open, Porsche took it, Ferrari slammed it shut and was surprised when the Porsche was unable to avoid. Again Porsche could probably have lifted a little to avoid contact but then we start speculating on ping and connection quality too.
@@BrKnOblivion 27.5 leans in the favor of the car in front. The car behind did not take action to prevent the collision. One could argue that 27.8 would protect the car behind but the shift did not occur in the braking zone, but before it, so 27.8 does not apply. Further, the rules specifically states that unless the driver is attempting the maneuver in the braking zone, he is allowed to make one exit from the racing line in defense and come back. He wasn't driving erratically from line to line. EDIT If this wasn't FIA rules then maybe. I haven't studied other rule systems because as a GTS sim player, I have to follow the FIA rule set.
@@OGSomeOne FIA rules don't apply in iRacing... The driver behind did attempt to avoid, but there could have been a lift. FIA allows a defensive move, but that wasn't a defensive move, it was a direct block. Move was way too late and the trailing car had very little option. FIA rules don't have to take into account lag, internet connections etc. which do have a factor and in this case the Porsche could have actually gotten no penalty for the contact due to lag. It was very borderline. EDIT: An easy trap to fall into when reviewing these is to look at them in slow motion and forget the reaction times. Run it back in real time and see the reaction times, or keep in mind the reaction times depending on the slow motion divisor.
@@BrKnOblivion Really. What rule set are they using then? That isn't NASCAR or IMSA, IMSA site says they only officiate in GT3 Porsche cup, DPM, and LMP. I'd be interested to know because I haven't found a rule set where the car behind, fully, has the right of way.
@@OGSomeOne Car behind doesn't have full right of way, however a block thrown like that is gonna end up bad for the car blocking every time. Again key is to look at it in real time. The reaction to the block was fast but not fast enough. Latency plays it's part even if just 30ms when added to driver response time. iRacing has it's own sporting code, mostly based off real world racing where possible, FIA/WEC etc. Further up the comments someone actually posted the relevant part of the sporting code.
First Clip- Pink Ferrari was being a dick but the Porsche has to back out. There was no overlap of the 2 cars and the Porsche just kept their foot on the throttle. Did the Ferrari deserve the punt?? Probably but it could have been avoided. Second Clip- Purple BMW at fault. The car had overlap and thus the purple car must give racing room to the other BMW. Third Clip- Blue Merc was being too ambitious and you have to give the inside car racing room. The blue car cut down on the inside car. Fourth Clip- I would put this fault with the GT4 car. He should have been getting blue flags as the LMP1 caught him and thus should have allowed an easy overtake. The LMP1 was a little hasty to get past but it did look like the GT4 was letting them down the inside. Fifth Clip- GTR is at fault. Cut and dry incident. Sixth Clip- The following Merc is totally at fault. They went for a dive bomb, put the front right in the grass and hit the white Merc. The white Merc was holding it's line and didn't move under braking so the following car should of noticed this and tried latter on to make the pass. They had a long straight coming up and it could have been an easy draft pass before the chicane.
Crash 1: Depents on where is the race line. And what corner is after this overtaking point. Looks like pink was defending its position ? But thats not good. white was already the faster driver so making this mess in pointless. At first glance pink was not suppose to protect its position. Or was it the other way around, pink was creating space to let white pass. It looks like pink was leaving its race line so white car can overtake and take race line in the following corner. So pink was creating space for white to take. But white didnt know and he tried to continue the overtake in full speed but it was too close . ? If white slowed down because of that it could not overtake anymore. And after a long hard race, that is not an option. White was already faster driver and he deserved to overtake. Or is this crazy overtaking defense allowed ? Can you actually block faster drivers ? That does not seem good. The moment you are fast enough that you can afford to overtake a car, that pass should be yours. If it was race where blocking faster drivers is allowed. Then white just crashed pink. Crashing is not allowed. Possible scenarios: 1: pink was giving space to white and white crashed him, because pink didnt know which side will white overtake on. 2: pink was defending race position but white crashed him If pink was giving space , then it seems right the way he did, because the following corner will let white ride on a race line. White didnt expect pink to move that fast ? But if white had race line in mind, then he would start overtaking on the right side, because that is where the next race line is. So pink did a good job letting him go at full speed. In the ideal scenario white would not even have to move steering wheel because pink cleared race line for him. For safety, I would just tell white to start overtaking on the edge of right side. Depends on what is the rules of the race, but if pink jumps on track like that, it is dangerous. I guess, race line is always for the faster drivers. So was pink defending position, or letting the other overtake ?
the pink Ferrari literally cut him off... how can you say it was the other guys fault.. gtfo of the way on the straight there is no way of defending. am I wrong?
Only so much you can do if someone blocks as you are about to get past their rear bumper... Something to factor in is reaction time and prediction. If you can't predict the incident, then not much can be done to avoid it.
Brilliant (again), loving these videos, really good to hear what you think would have been the right thing to do and it's interesting from the perspective of which lines to be taking for clean overtakes too - please do more of these, love them!
The first scenario is interesting. I think the one being overtaken is always supposed to pick a line way before the faster car starts the move. I wouldn't have lifted eighter probably even if it's risky. If someone's being naughty i tend to loose my shit a bit. Knowing i am in fact a patient driver.
Remember Charles Leclerc at Silverstone on the hangar straight against Max Verstappen? It was legal in F1 for Charles to look in his mirrors waiting for Max to pull out of the slipstream, and then defend.
Being the defending car, you don't have to pick your line before the car behind makes a move. This rule just doesn't exist. The only rules that exist are that you must leave another driver space if he is significantly alongside and, at least in F1 this is a rule; you cannot move in the braking zone. Applying this to the first incident, the car behind definitely was at fault as he hit the pink car from behind. Yes, the car in front moved late which is ofcourse a risk, but not illegally late. Illegally late it would have been if the car ahead moved when the cars were already overlapping
@@0shintei0 If there is sufficient contact detected by the sim, both drivers will receive whatever incident points result. In this case, the contact may only cause a "Car contact (0x)" initially, but when the Ferrari spins off the track it receives an "Off track (1x)" which is also applied to the Porsche. If he then hits the wall it gets elevated to 2x for both drivers, likewise for 4x. Whether they lose SR for this race depends on all sorts of things such as the driver's current SR and incident history, corners turned in the race, total incident points.
This is the case, the BMW is a faster class, if only by a few seconds per lap. All that changes is that the Merc shouldn't be defending, they should be running their line and facilitating the overtake once the BMW is ready. I still think it is the BMW's fault for being overly aggressive and impatient, but the Mercedes didn't help matters there either.
@@jeremylaynerogers no, both cars in the clip are gt3 mercs. Just look at the rear... they have exactly the same brake-lights (and sound). The video said wrong, there is no BMWs in the clip, which is a mistake but everyone makes mistakes sometimes.
@@Otakahunt ok that they are both in same class, the "kraken" merc should be aware of his lack of pace compared to the one behind. its even worse being on same class the gigantic difference in pace seen at the chicane, i can tell right way the kraken one is lost on track, he is probably a lapped car. if its not, the guy behind had some issue and was behind but still is much faster, there is literally no point in the kraken defending there, its not a match for him, both guys are in "different races" there for sure. Another wrong thing about that kraken car is that he kinda not defend there. he was driving by the mirror watching where the other guy was going and moving his steering wheel according to the other guy moves, it ends up with the kraken being on the middle of the track , not giving much choice to the other guy to where to go. If u choose to defend from a guy that laps almost 2 seconds faster then u per lap, u can defend, its pointless and idiotic but u have the right to do it, so in case u want to defend a pointless fight u should have been from the exit of the corner to the next one on the right side of the track and kept your line there... even if i think the way to defend that next corner is by the outside and not the inside, but thats me. it depends a little on the race situation. u were ahead there i would go on the outside and if he wants to send it on the inside fine for me. he would not be able to pass me there without bumping me on corner exit and on the next one going on the outside gives u a better run as well to the straight coming and the inside on the chicane coming up. we usually just defend the inside there to eliminate the others guy chance to try it.
Hi there Scott, good work and keep it up. I disagree on some points u gave. And i do not know anyone on those clips and i was not the one in any of them. @5:35 i do believe its 100% mustang fault. and let me explain my reason. In sim racing as u know u have at your disposal Radar, relative, standings, spotter, arrows, mirrors and virtual mirrors u can even look back at 100%. the mustang know or he should know or he needs to know he is in the slower car and the car behind is a faster car. he should know the difference in speeds. at the Start/finish straight if that faster car was at like 5 seconds behind, the mustang need to know that in the next few corners the guy behind will catch up really fast. he needs to have that in consideration, at donigton that turn with a small lift on the mustang its not hard to do and it doesn't make him lose pretty much any time, if you look it better you will see the mustang did turn in very early already thinking about blocking the pass of the faster car behind( because in his mind lifting is not an option, making it easier is not an option), and scott you know that at that track the next few corners would be much harder to make a pass because u have to set up the car in the proper way to make the turns, so that place of the incident was the best place for the pass had the mustang had that in consideration and had him any respect for others on track. for me that the point, lack of respect for others, people dont really think about the race overall, they only look at their belly and dont really care about anything or anyone else. @8:35 u probably didnt realize those are two different class cars. merc is gt3, bmw was GTE. So at the chicane was the bmw gte fault for sure, he didnt judge well the difference in corner speed and bump the gt3 car, but that i would call a race incident, pour judgment, not much happened there besides a 0X as it was a square bump, didnt even give them damage at all. So the gt3 guy should know what the difference between gte and gt3 cars in iracing, gte are lightly slower in top speed ( or to reach the top speed) but faster in corners speed. So the gt3 guy already got punted in a corner so whats the best thing to do next ? trying to make it harder to the faster car behind of course. So instead of just do a small lift on the straight as he should know gte is slower at reaching top speed but way faster in corner speed, and let him go clean and easy, no what does he do ? of course he makes his car wide on track going anywhere and no where giving the guy behind pretty much no choice to where to go, as u said he defended but not really as he let a open gap. Now look into another thing, look at what the gt3 car does at the straight, he is clearly blocking several times the gte car. gt3 is moving his car left and right on the track, there are two black lines to make it easier to understand the car moves on the track. the gte car behind didnt really know what do do there and probably lost himself on where he was on the track, because he has his view blocked from the car ahead. Had the gte lifted and not try, that non sense fight with another class car would keep going for the next straight and for the next chicane and it would only finish probably at the start finish straight where the gte will have the clear superiority which would be harder anyway. So repeating myself once again: " had him any respect for others on track. for me thats the point, lack of respect for others, people dont really think about the race overall, they only look at their belly and dont really care about anything or anyone else."
The Mustang and the P3 car incident is the fault of the P3 car. The P3 car and making Max dive bomb went off the track on the left hand side and lost traction and could not manage the turn and went straight across the front of the Mustang.
more a comment for the algorithm but for the 3rd incident: this is the 'Mutkurve' on the Nordschleife I guess. In GT3 it's almost flat down so going through there side by side is just crazy. Besides that It'd cost lotsa time for both drivers to make that safely if they do. So it's always better to lift shortly for thr reaar car instead of insist.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Yesterday I was in a MX5 practice session. I was ahead most of the time. Until a guy named Scott Mansell came in. I was like "wtf, this name sounds familiar". This Scott obliterated my lap time by about 6 tenths. I did not even knew it was possible to find that much time at Okoyama.
Yeah, today I know why ! I just remembered where I heard about this Scott... Absolute respect mate, you are so fucking legit. A legend. Cheers, hope to see you in a race some day.
Bad news for you... I think that wasn't the right Scott Mansell, he's "Scot Mansell2" on iRacing...doesn't look like he's raced Okayama. members.iracing.com/membersite/member/CareerStats.do?custid=417182
@@JohnBaxendale I was in a practice session with a Scott Mansell on a 1.48.0. Il check for the session results tomorrow
Sqwr ah, my bad, I only looked at the races, wouldn’t have been visible so maybe it was him! :)
I'm seeing a lot of people rushing to defend the pink Ferrari in the first clip, however, this is a clear cut case by iRacing's sporting code:
8.1.1.4. Blocking -The leading driver is allowed to run a defensive line. However, blocking occurs when a leading driver actively adjusts his or her driving line based on the actions and/or positioning of a pursuing driver. For example, veering left to prevent a pursuing driver from passing on the left while running on a straight.
The Ferrari got what was coming to him for not reading the rules.
it is not blocking you are allowed one blocking move. then if the porsche goes right n he moves again its blocking. the porsche should of backed out and tried again next lap and done a nice fake left go right move.
@@zachemorgan You sound quite confident about this, maybe you can direct me to that part of the iRacing sporting code. The part where it directly contradicts what I copy/pasted from it above.
@@Fyrespit not going from iracing code thats not real racing. im going from f1s rule book were you are allowed one move.
@@Fyrespit iracing code is simply wrong on blocking its not even racing if you can't react to an opponent.
@@zachemorgan
"im going from f1s rule book."
So you just race according to whatever rule you made up in your head, or cherry pick rules you like from whatever rulebook?
In your world, F1 drivers would be crashing all the time claiming "They do that in Formula E/Touring cars/Karting etc".
"It's not even racing." "iracing code is simply wrong"
No, what's not racing is turning up with your own special set of rules, different to everyone elses and claiming superiority.
It can't be wrong. It's their service, their rules.
"not going from iracing code thats not real racing"
Why are you here then? The title gave it away, no? "Race Driver Reacts to Your Sim Racing SHUNTS"
I want to know what happened to the other BMW when they went behind the trees in the second clip.
Right?!?! I'm so peeved that I can't see where he went
He dead.
He into the Shadow Realm(TM)
he stopped for a burger and fries
They combined
Pink Ferrari had it coming. He knew the risk throwing an aggressive block like that.
Ferrari had it coming because he's driving a Ferrari.
BS.. the car in the back has to avoid the accident... the porsche wasnt next to the ferrari and the porsche should have expected him to block... just back off a bit, and voila, no incident.
@@schore69 ferrari still shouldn't have done that they got it fine not ramming them off.
First one is the pink car's fault. It's just like when Magnussen pulled out to block Leclerc in Japan 2018.
The Safety Car Agree, however the car behind had such a run, as soon as the other car is committed to the left, just go right. It was a bit naive to continue going forward, even though pink was very shitty as there must have been 10 KPH delta on a straight.
@@jenscee7679 yeah, move from the pink car gave the Porsche very little time to avoid contact, which they tried by moving to the right. Could've been done earlier though that is true and they probably should've lifted, but overall because the pink car caused the situation. I'd call this type of thing a racing incident overall. Nobody is entirely at fault.
The Safety Car at full pace in car it’s a tough call 100%
nah that porsche should of back out he just ran right in to him.
Exactly. If I was the pink car, i would of been on the left waaaaay before that.
Background echo at 3:30
Scott from the future shows up for a cameo
almost like a dual audio stream on it
tbh, the second sound feed sounded like it was coming from the laptop mic but it was cleaner than the main camera audio ( the room needs a bit of sound deadening! )
I thought I was tripping
Video 1 is on iRacing. Blocking on the straight is very much illigal in the sporting code. Pink Ferrari is definitely at fault there.
In the first incident the pink Ferrari blocked the Porsche as per iRacing rules:
8.1.1.4. Blocking - The leading driver is allowed to run a defensive line. However, blocking
occurs when a leading driver actively adjusts his or her driving line based on the actions and/or positioning of a pursuing driver. For example, veering left to prevent a pursuing driver from passing on the left while running on a straight.
I believe that's basically the same as in most road racing series'. But yeah the Porsche should've been able to avoid contact there imo.
still the porsches fault to me the lead car can almost never be at fault even in a situation like this. the porscshe should of just backed out try again next lap maybe be a bit tricky since u know you have a blocker and go right then left.
@@zachemorgan Oh yeah, like I said. Just because the other car broke the rules doesn't justify him breaking them. Not that I think it was intentional though.
@@TeroD333 yeah I dont really like iracings interpretation of blocking. i prefer formula ones were you are allowed one move but not a second one.
The ferrari was a bit naught but pragmatically, the porshe ended it's own race. In racing even if you're right, you can still be wrong, be pragmatic, pull out when the dumb guy does a stupid move. If you got up on his bumper once, you can do it again.
How are you all so dense? He quoted the subsection of the iRacing sporting code that literally says that the Ferrari broke the rules.
It's literally protestable to block. Ferrari is objectively at fault here, absolutely no room for argument.
I'd say the Pink Ferrari was definitely blocking, and I'm not sure the other car had enough of a chance to try and back off in time
According to iracing rules the first one was blocking as he moved in response.
In real racing it's allowed to change the line one time, also for defending, but better not that close anyway.
@@Leynad778 This isn't real racing. It's iracing. :)
@@bikeparkdave7560 In iRacing you get your 4x for any contact anyway and if you report an incident, it must be obvious that the over guy hit you on purpose anyway.
@@Leynad778 You also have a set of rules that govern blocking. IRacing doesn't use real life rules.
@@bikeparkdave7560 I don't like iRacing and prefer ACC by far online. Since there is no iRating-pressure to end up well, people are pretty cautious and absolutely great racing there. When people block you, they normally fail every second lap anyway and just stay behind to take the opportunity.
1:47 pink car at fault.
3:18you sound like when Galadriel tries to take the ring from Frodo
If there's one thing I've learned it's that to a lot of folks in sim racing you aren't defending unless you've got one wheel on the white line. Half a car width seems to be considered "door wide open".
It can be, though usually only fools try that move, unless you have better track knowledge and can pull the move off safely. If referencing that Road Atlanta contact, well the 'BMW' which was actually a Merc, was looking to pass aggressively and the Kraken Merc should have just let him through due to personal safety if nothing else. The other Merc would have crashed into another car later anyway :D
A fools errand that will never work, you'd either cause a wreck or not gain the position and cost both drivers more time than necessary. Only a moron would even attempt a move like that.
Avoiding circumstances where incidents can occur is as important as avoiding incidents, its like flying a plane, don't put yourself in a position yr brain hasn't been to already.
First case i could call as a fault of the Pink car. The following driver might not have had enough time to react that the guy in front of him is actually so close (at least i can't react fast enough to situations like that)
Hey guys I was in the porsche in the first clip. The guy in front of me was adamant on defending very late and had been doing the same for the last two laps. I got a run on him before t3 at Road Ameria and moved left to go inside, he made a very late block which is anyways illegal according to the sporting code, fair defending would've been when he defended the inside line before I moved left. Anyways, I'm on a single laptop screen playing with a fucked up fov so maybe that contributed to me misjudging the gap and speed between us, and I accept that even though I had like a fraction of a second to lift I could've done that, I was a bit agressive at the time cause the ferrari was provoking me really bad over voice, he basically told me to pass him if I think "I'm so fucking fast" when I politely asked him earlier in the race if he thinks the way he is defending is okay. I don't regret that incident though as he later tried to intentionally take me out when he was lapped and used racial slurs when he couldn't.
Despite what some folks here seem to think, you were absolutely in the clear as per the sporting code.
I figure this was week 5 IMSA so it's too late now, but I hope you at least protested for voice abuse if not for the block.
This is exactly the reason I have voice muted permanently.
@@Fyrespit it was exam week so I forgot to but I did protest him when he wouldn't stop talking shit in future races.
i do think u were fine sporting code or comun sense in race. the other guy have no knowledge about racing.
The Ferarri was 100% in the wrong there. No doubt.
7:28
"Malarkey, that's slang for bullshit isn't it?"
"SIR, YES SIR!!!"
The lmp car was 100% on the grass, he should have waited a couple of seconds to pass
Not that good at carspotting.
The Porsche in the first clip was a BMW, the Merc later was a BMW as well :D
you mean it was a porsche in the first clip not a bmw what he said?
@@wouterbakker6427 yes
The Merc literally has ///AMG on the top of the wing... Pretty sure a BMW wouldn't have that.
@@Maccaroney It's part of BMW's new camouflage strategy, same as the giant Mercedes logo between the headlights...
You block aggressively like the pink car, you might get dumped. That’s racing.
Pink var was top late. As zoon as the pink car moved backing out wasn't an option because of the speed differance
First one with the pink Ferrari reminds me of Vettel and Max and the British GP!
3:56 what is up with the double sound?
Agree with every analysis but the last one, the trailing car had no business trying to force that dive bomb and the leading car defended perfectly adequately; only a maniac goes all the way to the right considering the long straight in the next section.
9:03 that mercedes took a VERY defensive line, the bmw should have taken the normal line to get a good setup for turn 7 and therefore a better run down the back straight imo
both dumb drivers really, BMW committed to a gap that was only inches wider than his own car BUT the Merc did leave the incentive wide open for just such an idiot (impatient driver confirmed by the massive shunt a few corners back) probably C licence holders anyway.
@@mitchR32
Both dumb drivers? Only one person there was dumb going into a gap that didn't exist.
@@Delimon007 its iRacing dude, if you get punted and nearly dive bombed the corner previously and then you defend super hard against that person instead of just letting them through you're asking to be punted off. let the idiots through and they will spin off before the end of the race every time
@@mitchR32
true
So much valuable info in this video. It should be mandatory to watch these videos before getting on the (online) track for the first time.
According to iRacing sporting code:
8.1.1.4. Blocking -The leading driver is allowed to run a defensive line. However, blocking occurs when a leading driver actively adjusts his or her driving line based on the actions and/or positioning of a pursuing driver. For example, veering left to prevent a pursuing driver from passing on the left while running on a straight.
So according to the code the pink Ferrari is at fault.
when i play project cars 2 i hate getting off turn 2 cause allllll the ai lift and your suppose to floor it off the turn
3:27 audio issues (echo)
So what happened to the second BMW in the 2nd clip?
@8:09 pretty sure they're both Merc's Scott.
and in the beginning I think he calls a Porsche BMW aswell. But it doesn't matter imo. This isn't about car brands :)
The first one was definitely on the Pink Car. Allowed to or not, he put his car in that position way late into the other driver’s maneuver. Had he let the other car go, both would have raced on.
The number one rule of racing, “To finish first, first you have to finish”.
There is still some blame on the driver behind for hitting the punk car as he passed, don’t get me wrong. But the Pink Car made a choice to force the other driver to make a choice... that’s where it was a terrible decision from the start.
Hey i've just started sim racing as apposed to years of only sim drifting. i've decided to go with f1 cars, as I just find them easier to race. so after 4days so far i've managed to nab a podium with a fair time around Laguna seca. could send in a video for you to just give some tips on what i need to improve on?
I play Assetto and i just use a g27.
First Incident:
According to the iRacing sporting regulation you are not allowed to block by reacting to another drivers movements. Pink car moved after the white car, so in iRacing context, the pink car is to blame.
This would only be the white cars fault it the pink car moved first. But what the white car does is foolish, as it could have been avoided, but I am sure it was not on purpose, he just got a little too close.
Car to blame:
1. Pink for blocking
2. Pink car for moving across
3. Blue car chopped
4. LMP, drove into Mustang's racing line
5. Nissan
6. Yellow and Black car, divebomb
I dunno for the first one I think I would go with 50/50, or even front car blame.
Had the front car been following his standard line, I would place the blame more on the rear car, but since the front car was attempting defensive maneuvers i.e. weaving across the track, instead of following the line, I think there is something to be said for the lead car attempting a maneuver that he seemingly knew would lead to a collision.
You have to consider the fact that the rear car was drafting and building speed for an overtake, and was visibly traveling faster that the front car. To attempt that defensive weave at those speeds at that close of proximity was negligently dangerous on the lead cars behalf, and you can see the rear car try to correct by switching sides. The front car essentially brake checked him at 150mph with absolutely no room or time for correction.
1st one (for me) depends on what the race situation was... were there only a few laps to run? Was pink fresh out of the pits? Or was it in the first 10 minutes of a 40+minute race.
To me, it makes a difference... but as it stands, the defensive move, although late, was ok.
the first incident, I think it is important to remmember that the driver behind is probably using a single screen so he wouldn't see the ferrari until he crossed his window. I would say the Ferrari is to blame with a very late aggressive move.
that z4 should have taken the normal line he could have crossed over and set himself up to pass in the next corner
Can you do a Video on the most realistic camera Settings for an open wheeler like f1 cars ?
Think the one with the Mustang vs Prototype is on the Mustang
The mustang should have seen that coming a mile away. He obviously wanted to pass him as quickly as possible, instead of slowing both of you down just give him the inside and move on, he was definitely close enough to take the inside there.
I also looked at it again, it wasn't a dive up the inside, he made it clear he was taking the inside line, the mustang cut him off. He needs to pay attention to his surroundings and react accordingly.
Edit: Something I want to know, did he have mirrors, a way to look back, could he hear him etc.? If these aren't things in the game then that's kinda broken and that makes it impossible to do a multi class race without an incident.
Also the LMP cars line through there was atrocious if he was trying to perform an inside pass.
1. Road American, pink Ferrari's fault by blocking Porsche on straight.
2. Suzuka, pink BMW's fault, he wanted to be fast for the incoming chicane but miscalculated the space for the other BMW.
3. Nordschleife, kinda blue Mercedes' fault, more tend to a car incident. The blue Mercedes might turn in too much, but if he didn't turn that much he might crash to the railing (since that was the left-hander right after a long straight before the first carousel). Anyways, overtaking in Nordschleife is a risky move, if the car at the back is better, he could qualify better rather than trying to win on the first lap, he could've follow the car in front then overtake on the long straight at the last part of the track. Sending it has a huge huge huge possibility of ruining others and his race.
4. Donington, I would say Mustang GT4's fault, he received a blue flag from the LMP3, he could've given the inside line to the LMP3, but the LMP3 didn't flash, and too confident that the Mustang would give him the way.
5.Hungaroring (maybe?), GTR's fault.
6. Road Atlanta, Mercedes' fault, the BMW M8 is in GTE class, the Mercedes AMG GT3 is in GT3 class, the Mercedes must be lapped by the BMW and received a blue flag, but the Mercedes was still fighting BMW, he should've moved to the left and give way. Even the Mercedes and the BMW are on the same lap, the car has a slower lap time shouldn't fight the other class, there is no benefit from doing so.
Agreed with all said here
The 5:25 clip, the Ford must have had blue flag warnings beforehand, he should have known to leave the space and be aware of the faster car. If he was informed, it's clearly the Ford's fault, if not, that's a racing incident. Also the first incident is also a racing one, both drivers equally at fault, it's more or less what Danny and Max did in Baku.
Hi D61,
I’m wondering how “real“ force feedback is and how you can set it up to be “more real“ in any game.
Also, appreciate the informative content, your way of teaching is very insightful!
Cheers
third incident, the multi coloured car should have backed out
I don't think that Porsche driver in the first clip had enough time to lift. The Ferrari's maneuver was way too sudden for the Porsche driver to compensate especially since the Ferrari forced the Porsche back into it's tow.
Concerning the first incident.
The Porsche is not obliged to let off the throttle to accommodate for a blocking move.
The move was late, was aggressive, served him well ending up in the wall.
Choose your side and stick to it, wanna play clever eat some dust.
I won't lift off because you want to block.
IRL he would have lifted off to avoid a big crash but in simracing you don't die and don't spend money on repairs so there you go.
Sticking to your line is fair racing, what the guy did was "I block so you don't pass", like gtfo.
It is two mercedes on the last clip !
Pink Ferrari fault full stop. Why should the Porsche back out of the throttle with aggressive defending form the Ferrari. If he backs out of the throttle he wont get the overtake done
1. Racing incident, more Ferrari's fault.
2. Pink Bimmer's fault for coming across.
3. Racing incident.
4. Racing incident.
5. Godzilla's fault.
6. AMG trying to overtake's fault.
I raced with this Merc KRAKEN I think.This pant is so known to me
Nice to know that I agree with you or you with me on all counts .... bar one point. First incident is 100% the pink cars fault not just because of the late (rude) block but also because the guy behind can't be blamed for contact on switching to the other side because this is sim racing - irl you would lift and complain to your team over the radio because of danger to life. In sim racing you have no such fear so will always, always, risk a touch to keep the move going. So I think you are slightly in error to judge a sim racing incident by real life standards. Sim racing is always more aggressive. It's bound to be.
>can't be blamed for contact on switching to the other side because this is sim racing
This is absolute nonsense and part of the cancer of sim racers everywhere. For the love of god stop thinking like this.
@@waking00one you missed my point utterly
Hi, where can I submit my clip for analysis?
That Pink car is at fault 100 percent. He tried to block twice anyways which isn't allowed on Iracing.
Mustang should have known the lmp was there. Game gives a blue flag and the lmp was right on his ass before going to the left to take inside line. No reason for mustang to commit to normal line in that moment besides being purely hyper focused on himself and ignoring his mirror (rear view mirror shows massive amount) and ignoring the blue flag being given probably a few corners before till that incident.
First one is 100% the pink cars fault. The car was in the toe and made the move. It's the pink cars job to respect that. He can counter by squeezing, what he did was blocking which is clearly illegal. He has no one to blame but himself for his crappy racing.
You can pretty much see which driver is going to be the problem, by watching their movement before the incident. One car drive straight and smooth, another car back and forth, erratic, all over the place. Hmm. I wonder which of these people is going to cause problems?
Are u related to Nigel Mansell?
1:44 I think the Porsche is at fault because the Ferrari was simply defending and the Porsche was too quick to pull out and too slow to back off and also too slow to react.
Direct from iRacing's sporting code:
8.1.1.4.Blocking -The leading driver is allowed to run a defensive line. However, blocking occurs when a leading driver actively adjusts his or her driving line based on the actions and/or positioning of a pursuing driver. For example, veering left to prevent a pursuing driver from passing on the left while running on a straight.
FyreSpit Interesting, I would’ve thought it was okay if you only moved once.
Even if you think about it in f1 way and not iracing's way, he moved way too late. The car behind could have avoided the inciddent so it has some fault but pink guy messed up.
Don't really see weaving in the that first one. He moves to the left, he does so to late. But he's not moving back to the right again. Porsche should've idd lifted. These are the kind of things that in real life racing you would get a big fat warning for maybe even a time penalty because of blocking or unsafe driving. In games offcourse there are no such marshels. If you keep pulling that shit you will get turned around.
This is why I never play any multiplayer, whether it's a sim or an arcade game. It's full of unsportive ego's trying to get in front asap. Too frustrating to me to deal with these guys.
First clip: I have to disagree with you there. I believe that the pink Ferrari is at fault for such a late maneuver as well as it being reactive to the car behind. Thus this could be argued as blocking, even though it isn't in a braking zone which it doesn't have to be. The Porsche trailing behind could've backed down off of the throttle, but the driver may not have anticipate this maneuver and most likely went right to avoid contact rather than just outright plow into them. It might be a fine line here, but the Porsche clearly had a run on the Ferrari, and the Ferrari reacted (key word) to the situation.
Second Clip: Agreed.
Third clip: Agreed.
Fourth clip: Agreed. Also, something to keep on mind. Often in certain series, it is the responsibility of the faster to pass safely, and it is the responsibility of the slower car to help facilitate the pass for those who are unaware.
Fifth clip: Not sure about this one. The Aston looked like it was somewhat unstable at one point as it seemed to have a slight twitch (minor oversteer moment that resulted in minor countersteering) which slowed it down a bit and wasn't accelerating out of the corner like normal. The GTR probably couldn't anticipate this in time, taking his normal braking and line at the corner. Maybe the GTR could've done a bit more to avoid the incident but without more camera angles, it's a tricky one.
Sixth clip: Agreed.
From a racing viewpoint the Fez in the first clip is more at fault than the Porsche. However he was correct that the Porsche could have lifted, but even then we can't know he didn't (no replay). From a racecraft viewpoint, if the Fez wanted to cover the inside, it should have been there long before the Porsche thought of overtaking. Porsche didn't really do much wrong until the potential failure to lift, though with the block from the Fez it's hard to pin it on the Porsche driver.
In the last clip very important thing is that that is not fight of same class but GT3 AMG vs M8 GTE and I think behavior of AMG was super unnecessary. First incident they had was M8s fault for sure.
the car behind was amg, same class, he was wrong:)
Avg,Blue Collor indeed
First one it was the Porsche's fault
Second one it kinda was the fuchsia one... kinda as you can move under braking but you have to always leave a space. and you defend your position by taking the inside so he didn't need to go left. more over on the 3 corners chicane they were about to go through.
Fourth one is definitely the LMP's fault as his line was off too...
Last one is the behind Mercedes' fault
some weird physics I see in that sim....
First incident is the fault of the driver who's blocking. Besides, blocking isn't allowed in iRacing. Sure the guy trying to pass *could* have backed-down, but he tried to get into a clear line instead. It's a matter of which avoidance strategy do you use. The car behind could have also just held his speed and line and given the blocking car a shove. But the blocking car broke the rules and deserved what he got.
I agree with the conclusion of the second incident. Guy shouldn't have moved up the track with another car still there.
Third one was just a racing incident. The car on the inside and the car on the outside had different ideas of what the side-by-side line was through that corner.
I agree with the conclusion of the fourth incident. Faster classes should wait until they're out of the esses to try to overtake slower classes.
I agree with the conclusion of the fifth incident. Driver in front should just focus on his line. Driver in back should make sure he doesn't hit the guy in front of him.
With the sixth incident, the guy trying to pass is at fault. The guy defending was not blocking this time, but he was holding a defensive line. It is the responsibility of the car trying to pass to safely get alongside the other car. Once he does get alongside, then both cars have the responsibility of racing cleanly.
IMO first one in real life maybe referee decision but in sim racing has to be pink's fault. Most of the time track penalties are automated and would be a nightmare if that kind of blocking is allowed.
Production quality is good but the mic quality could be better
bro you still didn't get a mic?
First one. Blame the Ferrari all the way. They're slow and don't react(edit: forgot to add in the wrong spot in the middle blocking a pass on either side). Then react too late causing a collision when getting passed. 2ND. Trailing BMW makes all attempts to not cause accident while being pushed off track by lead car which should know they were there. 3rd. I disagree to pin this on the blue car(it's a bold move, yes). This is simply an accident with no fault to either and both could've given more room. Especially the inside car which was slower at the point and lost position. Both are responsible to make it through safely. 4. Unlike N1, yet similar because it was late. The faster car still has to make the pass on the Mustang safely despite it being the fast part of track. Plenty of space to set up better. 5. Dirty punt by the Nissan. 6. Merc does a good job defending. Fault is on the BMW 100% regardless of the Merc not using the full track.
Everyone gonna ignore the fact that he called the Porsche 911 RSR a BMW?
Pink car was blocking. That puts them at fault.
The first one was 100 percent the pink cars fault, Way late block
First interaction, pink car did nothing wrong, by the rules. He's allowed to make a defense and the following car has no claim to the lane as his entire car is behind the pink car. 2nd and 3rd assessment I agree with you. LMP definately at fault. His maneuver was never going to finish well. At best he would have put himself off the track because he was too shallow for 2 cars being in that corner to make the s curve. I see what goes on between bmw and merc all the time. People trying to do a job that requires 2 or 3 turns in 1 turn. Would like to see driver ratings and account life data here because I'd be willing to bet the BMW driver is still new in comparison. A more seasoned driver would have done just as you said. Widen the line by moving to the left then undercutting the corner to get the run on the straight. Slow in Fast out rules followed almost always dictate that the actual over-take occurs on the exit of the corner, not the entrance or apex.
It wasn't a defensive move however. When one moves in reaction to the car behind and they are close enough, then it's a block. Porsche had clear overspeed (from draft) and the move made was a valid one by the Porsche. However the Fez moved too late to be a defensive move, it was a direct block. Porsche might have been able to lift a bit more before trying to switch back, but even then at real time speed, there wasn't much time to react especially for lower than top split drivers, which this looks like it was.
Racecraft wise, the Ferrari should have been on the inside line before the Porsche could make a move, that forces the Porsche to the outside of the braking zone into T5 at Road America. Ferrari had left the door open, Porsche took it, Ferrari slammed it shut and was surprised when the Porsche was unable to avoid. Again Porsche could probably have lifted a little to avoid contact but then we start speculating on ping and connection quality too.
@@BrKnOblivion 27.5 leans in the favor of the car in front. The car behind did not take action to prevent the collision. One could argue that 27.8 would protect the car behind but the shift did not occur in the braking zone, but before it, so 27.8 does not apply. Further, the rules specifically states that unless the driver is attempting the maneuver in the braking zone, he is allowed to make one exit from the racing line in defense and come back. He wasn't driving erratically from line to line.
EDIT If this wasn't FIA rules then maybe. I haven't studied other rule systems because as a GTS sim player, I have to follow the FIA rule set.
@@OGSomeOne FIA rules don't apply in iRacing...
The driver behind did attempt to avoid, but there could have been a lift. FIA allows a defensive move, but that wasn't a defensive move, it was a direct block. Move was way too late and the trailing car had very little option.
FIA rules don't have to take into account lag, internet connections etc. which do have a factor and in this case the Porsche could have actually gotten no penalty for the contact due to lag. It was very borderline.
EDIT: An easy trap to fall into when reviewing these is to look at them in slow motion and forget the reaction times. Run it back in real time and see the reaction times, or keep in mind the reaction times depending on the slow motion divisor.
@@BrKnOblivion Really. What rule set are they using then? That isn't NASCAR or IMSA, IMSA site says they only officiate in GT3 Porsche cup, DPM, and LMP. I'd be interested to know because I haven't found a rule set where the car behind, fully, has the right of way.
@@OGSomeOne Car behind doesn't have full right of way, however a block thrown like that is gonna end up bad for the car blocking every time.
Again key is to look at it in real time. The reaction to the block was fast but not fast enough. Latency plays it's part even if just 30ms when added to driver response time.
iRacing has it's own sporting code, mostly based off real world racing where possible, FIA/WEC etc.
Further up the comments someone actually posted the relevant part of the sporting code.
always good content.... the bigger problem i see on sim racing is ppl thinking a race is win on the 1st conner at the 1st lap......
First Clip- Pink Ferrari was being a dick but the Porsche has to back out. There was no overlap of the 2 cars and the Porsche just kept their foot on the throttle. Did the Ferrari deserve the punt?? Probably but it could have been avoided.
Second Clip- Purple BMW at fault. The car had overlap and thus the purple car must give racing room to the other BMW.
Third Clip- Blue Merc was being too ambitious and you have to give the inside car racing room. The blue car cut down on the inside car.
Fourth Clip- I would put this fault with the GT4 car. He should have been getting blue flags as the LMP1 caught him and thus should have allowed an easy overtake. The LMP1 was a little hasty to get past but it did look like the GT4 was letting them down the inside.
Fifth Clip- GTR is at fault. Cut and dry incident.
Sixth Clip- The following Merc is totally at fault. They went for a dive bomb, put the front right in the grass and hit the white Merc. The white Merc was holding it's line and didn't move under braking so the following car should of noticed this and tried latter on to make the pass. They had a long straight coming up and it could have been an easy draft pass before the chicane.
Crash 1:
Depents on where is the race line. And what corner is after this overtaking point. Looks like pink was defending its position ? But thats not good. white was already the faster driver so making this mess in pointless. At first glance pink was not suppose to protect its position.
Or was it the other way around, pink was creating space to let white pass. It looks like pink was leaving its race line so white car can overtake and take race line in the following corner. So pink was creating space for white to take. But white didnt know and he tried to continue the overtake in full speed but it was too close . ? If white slowed down because of that it could not overtake anymore. And after a long hard race, that is not an option. White was already faster driver and he deserved to overtake.
Or is this crazy overtaking defense allowed ? Can you actually block faster drivers ? That does not seem good.
The moment you are fast enough that you can afford to overtake a car, that pass should be yours.
If it was race where blocking faster drivers is allowed. Then white just crashed pink. Crashing is not allowed.
Possible scenarios:
1: pink was giving space to white and white crashed him, because pink didnt know which side will white overtake on.
2: pink was defending race position but white crashed him
If pink was giving space , then it seems right the way he did, because the following corner will let white ride on a race line.
White didnt expect pink to move that fast ?
But if white had race line in mind, then he would start overtaking on the right side, because that is where the next race line is. So pink did a good job letting him go at full speed.
In the ideal scenario white would not even have to move steering wheel because pink cleared race line for him.
For safety, I would just tell white to start overtaking on the edge of right side.
Depends on what is the rules of the race, but if pink jumps on track like that, it is dangerous.
I guess, race line is always for the faster drivers.
So was pink defending position, or letting the other overtake ?
The faster cars think they own the track.
I would like to know who blamed who in the moment. Were they mature and reasonable about it or did the people at fault bitch and moan about it?
0:16 it’s a Porsche
the pink Ferrari literally cut him off... how can you say it was the other guys fault.. gtfo of the way on the straight there is no way of defending. am I wrong?
I think the first one is just a case of play stupid games win stupid prizes
But what about the guy behind has a responsibility having a more clear idea and view what’s going on.
Only so much you can do if someone blocks as you are about to get past their rear bumper...
Something to factor in is reaction time and prediction. If you can't predict the incident, then not much can be done to avoid it.
Brilliant (again), loving these videos, really good to hear what you think would have been the right thing to do and it's interesting from the perspective of which lines to be taking for clean overtakes too - please do more of these, love them!
The first scenario is interesting. I think the one being overtaken is always supposed to pick a line way before the faster car starts the move.
I wouldn't have lifted eighter probably even if it's risky. If someone's being naughty i tend to loose my shit a bit. Knowing i am in fact a patient driver.
Remember Charles Leclerc at Silverstone on the hangar straight against Max Verstappen? It was legal in F1 for Charles to look in his mirrors waiting for Max to pull out of the slipstream, and then defend.
Being the defending car, you don't have to pick your line before the car behind makes a move. This rule just doesn't exist. The only rules that exist are that you must leave another driver space if he is significantly alongside and, at least in F1 this is a rule; you cannot move in the braking zone. Applying this to the first incident, the car behind definitely was at fault as he hit the pink car from behind. Yes, the car in front moved late which is ofcourse a risk, but not illegally late. Illegally late it would have been if the car ahead moved when the cars were already overlapping
@@rensvanampting234 noted : ) i don't know it must be that i'm always too polite and expect the same, i mean racing wise.
@@0shintei0 That would be true in F1, but this is not F1. See my response to Barry Herron for iRacing's policy on this.
@@0shintei0 If there is sufficient contact detected by the sim, both drivers will receive whatever incident points result. In this case, the contact may only cause a "Car contact (0x)" initially, but when the Ferrari spins off the track it receives an "Off track (1x)" which is also applied to the Porsche. If he then hits the wall it gets elevated to 2x for both drivers, likewise for 4x.
Whether they lose SR for this race depends on all sorts of things such as the driver's current SR and incident history, corners turned in the race, total incident points.
Great video, thanks!
First one was a Porsche 911 RSR
Last one was another Mercedes AMG GTR :p
Tell that to Max
I think in the last one the merc is GT3 and the bmw is GTE, if that makes a difference
This is the case, the BMW is a faster class, if only by a few seconds per lap. All that changes is that the Merc shouldn't be defending, they should be running their line and facilitating the overtake once the BMW is ready. I still think it is the BMW's fault for being overly aggressive and impatient, but the Mercedes didn't help matters there either.
@@jeremylaynerogers no, both cars in the clip are gt3 mercs. Just look at the rear... they have exactly the same brake-lights (and sound). The video said wrong, there is no BMWs in the clip, which is a mistake but everyone makes mistakes sometimes.
@@Otakahunt ok that they are both in same class, the "kraken" merc should be aware of his lack of pace compared to the one behind. its even worse being on same class the gigantic difference in pace seen at the chicane, i can tell right way the kraken one is lost on track, he is probably a lapped car. if its not, the guy behind had some issue and was behind but still is much faster, there is literally no point in the kraken defending there, its not a match for him, both guys are in "different races" there for sure. Another wrong thing about that kraken car is that he kinda not defend there. he was driving by the mirror watching where the other guy was going and moving his steering wheel according to the other guy moves, it ends up with the kraken being on the middle of the track , not giving much choice to the other guy to where to go.
If u choose to defend from a guy that laps almost 2 seconds faster then u per lap, u can defend, its pointless and idiotic but u have the right to do it, so in case u want to defend a pointless fight u should have been from the exit of the corner to the next one on the right side of the track and kept your line there... even if i think the way to defend that next corner is by the outside and not the inside, but thats me. it depends a little on the race situation. u were ahead there i would go on the outside and if he wants to send it on the inside fine for me. he would not be able to pass me there without bumping me on corner exit and on the next one going on the outside gives u a better run as well to the straight coming and the inside on the chicane coming up. we usually just defend the inside there to eliminate the others guy chance to try it.
Hi there Scott, good work and keep it up.
I disagree on some points u gave. And i do not know anyone on those clips and i was not the one in any of them.
@5:35 i do believe its 100% mustang fault. and let me explain my reason.
In sim racing as u know u have at your disposal Radar, relative, standings, spotter, arrows, mirrors and virtual mirrors u can even look back at 100%.
the mustang know or he should know or he needs to know he is in the slower car and the car behind is a faster car. he should know the difference in speeds. at the Start/finish straight if that faster car was at like 5 seconds behind, the mustang need to know that in the next few corners the guy behind will catch up really fast. he needs to have that in consideration, at donigton that turn with a small lift on the mustang its not hard to do and it doesn't make him lose pretty much any time, if you look it better you will see the mustang did turn in very early already thinking about blocking the pass of the faster car behind( because in his mind lifting is not an option, making it easier is not an option), and scott you know that at that track the next few corners would be much harder to make a pass because u have to set up the car in the proper way to make the turns, so that place of the incident was the best place for the pass had the mustang had that in consideration and had him any respect for others on track. for me that the point, lack of respect for others, people dont really think about the race overall, they only look at their belly and dont really care about anything or anyone else.
@8:35 u probably didnt realize those are two different class cars. merc is gt3, bmw was GTE.
So at the chicane was the bmw gte fault for sure, he didnt judge well the difference in corner speed and bump the gt3 car, but that i would call a race incident, pour judgment, not much happened there besides a 0X as it was a square bump, didnt even give them damage at all.
So the gt3 guy should know what the difference between gte and gt3 cars in iracing, gte are lightly slower in top speed ( or to reach the top speed) but faster in corners speed.
So the gt3 guy already got punted in a corner so whats the best thing to do next ? trying to make it harder to the faster car behind of course. So instead of just do a small lift on the straight as he should know gte is slower at reaching top speed but way faster in corner speed, and let him go clean and easy, no what does he do ? of course he makes his car wide on track going anywhere and no where giving the guy behind pretty much no choice to where to go, as u said he defended but not really as he let a open gap.
Now look into another thing, look at what the gt3 car does at the straight, he is clearly blocking several times the gte car. gt3 is moving his car left and right on the track, there are two black lines to make it easier to understand the car moves on the track. the gte car behind didnt really know what do do there and probably lost himself on where he was on the track, because he has his view blocked from the car ahead. Had the gte lifted and not try, that non sense fight with another class car would keep going for the next straight and for the next chicane and it would only finish probably at the start finish straight where the gte will have the clear superiority which would be harder anyway. So repeating myself once again: " had him any respect for others on track. for me thats the point, lack of respect for others, people dont really think about the race overall, they only look at their belly and dont really care about anything or anyone else."
I totally agree with all of your review...
(*Ok i admit it..im cheating because im doing real world racing as well) lol
Good advice mate.
These new BMW's are disgusting. bring back the M6 please
Resident evil 4 save theme on the background?
i'd love to see you unpick some turn 1 shunts at monza in ACC!
The Mustang and the P3 car incident is the fault of the P3 car. The P3 car and making Max dive bomb went off the track on the left hand side and lost traction and could not manage the turn and went straight across the front of the Mustang.
We all make mistakes
The prototype overtaking the Mustang wouldn't necessarily have made the corner anyway.
more a comment for the algorithm but for the 3rd incident: this is the 'Mutkurve' on the Nordschleife I guess. In GT3 it's almost flat down so going through there side by side is just crazy. Besides that It'd cost lotsa time for both drivers to make that safely if they do. So it's always better to lift shortly for thr reaar car instead of insist.