Let’s Fix
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
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Let’s Fix @WinstonDu Serve (Tennis Technique Explained)
1. Film yourself and compare your technique to the pros
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Thank you @LiamApilado , @12kgpTennis , and @WinstonDu for allowing me to use your videos
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You got this! 
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Thanks for the great analysis and advice Ryan! I actually watched one of your older serving videos a couple weeks ago and was tweaking some things on my serve from it and naturally started dropping the racket further past my head. This makes it even more clear on what I need to do. Thanks again and I hope 2024 is a good year for my serve!
Hey Winston. We all love your channel and genuine personality. You’re a good guy and we’re thankful for your channel. Best of luck and if you need any other help just hit me up. Email is ryan@2minutetennis.net. You got this!
@@2MinuteTennis will do thanks so much!
Ur taking advice from a guy who is not even ranked ? He’s literally a dude who just watched slow mo of Roger Federer and calls himself a tennis coach 😂
@@Charmander009 hahahaha you’re funny Max
@WinstonDu Why not work with Karue on your serve? I didn't watch this vid yet, but it's like you need to get more accelleration & need to "crack the whip" more before contact. Really pronate that wrist action to add some zip.
You won’t find a better serve analysis; one of the best I have ever seen. He makes it so simple to understand and has great examples to support his analysis as well. The bend the elbow follow through might be a little difficult for some players to emulate but the rest is spot on. The knock the birthday cap off is a incredible tip and his analysis of Winston’s hand is perfect it just has no where to go or accelerate and how he compares the other ones is just perfect. Great stuff Ryan will def forward this to my tennis peeps.
I am a fairly advanced player and recently started watching your videos. You have added 10-15mph to my serve and on top of that made it no longer an effort to hit those first serves. I have been through your other videos that give excellent tips on volleys, overheads etc and some of this stuff is pure gold I can't believe I haven't heard this before from coaches. Keep up the good work my man.
Ryan’s the best
Your experience seems similar to mine. Ryan's technique recommendations are not difficult to follow and well-suited to club level tennis players. I've improved so much by following his videos!
Exceptional analysis. Rec players take notes! You just saved 3 months of lessons and thousands of dollars. Now go video yourself working on this!! Thanks Ryan.
95% of pros couldn’t begin to give this understanding.
@@jacobhansen8965They’ve had lessons from such an early age that it’s just fundamentally sound muscle memory, and they don’t need to know all of this. Rec players have to build fundamentals piece by piece and these kinds of videos really help
As a long time Winston watcher, I knew his serve mechanics felt like a push (even with decent serve speed), but couldn't put my finger on why. You nailed it calling it a "shot put." That's exactly it. Winston is a strong guy, so he's able to muscle the racquet to decent swing speed, but shot putting vs. swinging will cap his ceiling. @2minutetennis, you've helped my serve a lot too - grateful for this awesome analysis!
Great deep dive, with specific side by side examples! I watch Winston a lot so it was good to see it in a constructive and nice way! 👍
Amazing technical analysis. From my understanding, if Winston can improve his external shoulder rotation and thoracic/mid back flexibility so his chest points up when driving up to the ball, he'd obtain a far deeper racket drop naturally.
Thanks Ryan👍
Best detailed tennis analysis I’ve encountered. Cause and effect so clearly described.
Thanks for the analysis. I don't agree on some points :
1 - not sure it's a good idea to toss lower and at the same time to try to add deeper racquet drop. A short racquet drop can also be the result of a toss too low.
2 - not a problem at all to finish with the free arm behind, Kyrgios does it at the beginning of the video. It's just important not to do it too early and to have it close to the body at impact.
Totally agree for the lack of pronation which is a power killer.
I have exactly the same racquet drop problem, very hard to solve, good luck ! Maybe indeed due to a lack of shoulder mobility for external rotation, bad habit, toss too low that does not give enough time, bad visualization of the swing.
The lack of pronation is interesting because if pronation is not the goal of the swing, things that lead to it, like supination, won't occur.
I am interested in this too because I've at time struggled with a shallow drop. Over the years improving my overall technique gave me a deeper drop, and consciously trying to move your hand more or drop deeper is counterproductive. Not all servers get the huge drop -- Nadal and Fed don't have deep drops, nor does Clay from Winston's channel.
I'm also very against the "power x" left hand finish with hand under armpit. It's true you have to pull your left arm in as part of your cartwheel, but as your rotate your left arm can free up again. J.J. Wolf is actually hurting his serve by holding the power X too long and blocking his rotation.
Awsome analysis ! Lots of key points that I'll adjust on my own serv. Thks and good job Ryan !
Well done. Also glad to see his improvement since he started his channel
Love the side by side split screen comparison. It’s so helpful
Fantastic analysis. I've read and watched *a lot* of tennis analysis and this is the best I've ever come across. I recall a Vic Braden analysis of McEnroe's serve which showed how he effectively pivoted around his right hip/leg (as a leftie) - which is the same point made here about crossing the arms. The point about the elbow/hand movement is really insightful.
Top notch analysis Ryan. Thank you.
Excellent breakdown. Winston has some of the best content on RUclips. He also seems very open to suggestions. Your breakdown on Ians backhand was also outstanding but it seems he did very little with it.
this was really really good. i have seen a lot of breakdowns from others and this was very easy to follow and v quite revealing. thanks for the insight.
OMG you showed a right-handed nadal (thanks for that!) and his toss is way right. the line drawn down through the ball would be on his RIGHT hip.
Nice analysis Coach Ryan. Ty.
Excellent observations and tips Ryan! I think I probably have similar issues, will try these things out!
this kind of comparison is really helpful. Thanks
He’s pushing with the arm when he needs to pulling with the body - all that hand path stuff fixes on its own. The racket is a baseball and a pitcher lets his arm get cranked back but doesn’t consciously use the arm muscles - any “leading with elbow” is more accurately percieved as “allow hand to be pulled down (or back)”.
Great analysis.
sooo helpful, thank you
Pretty cool analysis. But I feel whenever I over analyzed by serve, I lost quite a bit on the instinctive and feel element of it. After I video graphed and fixed the major kinks in my serve, the ones that gave me sciatica from too left toss to shoulder pain to elbow and wrist, etc I simply gave my mind a target and let the body do what it can do. I had years of bad tennis serve motion to correct though and it might have been the hardest change I brought in my game but well worth it. Took me about 5-6 years of constant video analysis. At this point, I don't go very deep into analyzing since the adjustments I made fixed my injuries. Excellent video though.
great assessment
Fantastic analysis . Going to film myself again.
I could always see that Winston had some kind of "hitch" in his serve, but I couldn't figure out exactly what it was until now. Thanks! Now you can move on to Mark Sansait. Even more to work with. :D
Marks start with the toss too.
That's one of the hack of analisys... thank you Rian!
wow, that's some deep analysis . so, how do you think he can make better backswing? by more relaxing his arm or by "forcing" his arm and shoulder into bigger drop? does racquet strings always have to look to the right (string side that is hitting the ball) after the contact in all type of serves? Many greetings, great vid btw . I really like that "colaboration" between youtubers :)
Awesome analysis coach Ryan! I'm sure Winston's serve will gain 10 mph after he follows your advice, as he's a very talented player. 👍👏
Ryan is Great coach I am watching all videos Love it ❤ 😊
Great vid ❤
I had a similar problem with a shallow racquet drop. My issue, and I believe Winston is doing the same thing, my elbow was not bending enough at the bottom of the racquet drop. All pros have well past a 90' bend in the elbow at the bottom of the drop. I believe Winston is not doing this, which prevents sufficient drop and keeps the racquet from swinging out to the right of the body. I am 60 years old and can achieve a depper drop than Winston if I make sure my elbow is being bent at the bottom of the drop. It is important to keep from bending the elbow too early, as this will prevent proper loading of the core, chest and rotator cuff muscles. It looks like Winston knows preload is important and that's probably why he has less bend in his elbow (to build up torque on the muscles) buut after load the elbow has to bend more to create the optimal path to the racquet. This should also help with the internal sshoulder rotation and forearm pronation through contact.
Another reason to explain why Winston should toss balls more to the right: 1) body won't bend any more, meaning higher hitting spot, more chance to clear the net, and less injury. His serve motion really hurts spine.
I always send Ryan's videos to my students as tennis homework after a lesson.
That's amazing to hear that coach! Thanks so much!
It's pretty clear that Winston doesn't get any racquet drop, but I think it's really, really hard to fix. What kind of drills can he do? I can almost guarantee it's not flexibility -- lots of intermediate players do the same thing.
Felix hand doesnt go back his legs drive the shoulders up while the hand drops relative. Extremely important distinction.
I’m well aware of that. Thanks.
Great video, Coach! I’ve subscribed to both your and Winston’s channels for a while now. What about a looser grip to get more flexibility? I recall someone, perhaps in one of your videos, noting how important that is during the serve and pointing out how Djokovic deliberately bends/points his racquet down before his ball tossup to remind himself to stay loose. Winston seems too tight and stiff and needs to relax more.
He definitely needs to relax more-you can see the striations in his forearm quite clearly in the trophy position! And on top of that, his wrist is cocked (when you want it neutral or in the opposite direction)… so everything is extra tight and stiff!
Great video!! How do you do the side by side?
Awesome video. Would you consider providing advice for amateur players based on their recorded serve, and charge some consulting fee?
Ryan does this already. Zoom lessons. Check out his web site!
Wow wow wow this is great
The grip. Hi, great analysis. I note that his grip is a little towards forehand which may limit the serve motion up to the strike and also the pronation afterwards. Might also feel easier to hit a left side toss with this grip … which is the chicken or the egg? I think this serve would benefit from a more continental/backhand grip.
yeah I was thinking it was more a forehand grip, generally more of a chopper/Eastern grip works best
Great analysis, but not giving Winston a heads up about doing this was not your best available choice (nor was using 'fix' language vs 'improve').
hmm i bet i make all the same mistakes as Winston.. im gonna record myself and fix this. thanks for the video!!!!
Federer's forearm never gets parallel to the ground and his elbow never goes above his hand, either.
the elbow needs to lead and shoot up just after the hand drops. this will emphasise the racket drop more. to get the racket to then flair out to the right you need to have some hip rotation as a result of uncoiling. this needs to be timed and will happen naturally if so. high ball toss is fine. definitely the majority of atp players have higher ball tosses so i really don't think that's an issue. also any serve has been proven by intuitive tennis to be hit at 12 o clock. anything 1 o clock or more and your serve will more likely be slice and predictable.
Thanks for watching Ryan
What’s a good way to time our own toss timing? I’m looking at video and using a stopwatch and it feels not very accurate haha
Send me a video of your serve to ryan@2minutetennis.net. I’ll measure it for you and let you know. Thanks!!
My serve looks exactly like winston, no pronation after hitting the ball.
Actually I can pronate during shadow swing, but when I am actually hitting on the courts, there is no pronation.
Is there a way you both can do something together regarding the serve? Sort of him with Karue?
I was wondering, how much time did Graf take? Have you timed it?
Not sure what you mean by “both do something together regarding the serve”. Graf’s toss timing was 1.18.
@@2MinuteTennis Thanks. It means you both doing in person session(s) together to work on his serve.
@@elchanclascocina he’s in California. I’m in Pennsylvania. So that won’t be happening. Thanks for watching!!
Also, Del Potro comes to mind when having a high toss yet still a very good serve. @@2MinuteTennis
Intersting fact - 16:15 Rafa racket drop is also not very deep - the same as Winston maybe Winston has even deeper better drop
That’s interesting. 🤔
Totally saw that as well! Nadal could use a deeper racket drop by bringing is arm back more, and leading with the elbow.
Who was the first pro serve with pronation? It’s a very counter intuitive concept, isn’t it?
Pronation on the serve is as old as tennis itself. Cavemen probated when throwing rocks at each other. It’s biomechanics. Nothing new.
Tips for improving shoulder flexibility? As I've gotten older it's tougher to keep that elbow up!
Sometimes it's just not possible or requires too much work for amateurs. That's the problem with these analysis videos that compare amateurs to pros. The average joe simply will never achieve the same level of flexibility or athleticism as a professional that trained and maintained that their entire life since childhood. Also a in a lot of these videos the difference comes from camera angles, like when he compared the green line vs hips, the angles were clearly different that made one look much closer and one much further that they actually were.
Thank you everytime he serves all I can see is the palm opening up
Everything is on point except for two: It's not really realistic to have the kind of flexibility in the shoulder joint as the pros. Secondly, about tucking the non- hitting arm under the arm pit, I think that's only neccessary at contact with the ball, because after the ball leaves your racket, it shouldn't matter any more where your non hitting arm ends up. If you would do analysis of Sampras's and Edberg's serves, it would be helpful.
I still feel like Winston is "afraid" to truly accelerate, almost like a push, like he's afraid to hit that out
It’s not about the hand it’s about the elbow
Its probably his toss limiting how much his shoulder could stretch since it's pinch upward already to hit his toss.
It’s not flexibility issues he has to practice elbow coming to the ball and relaxing forearm
Hit the nail on its head there. We rec players lack shoulder flexibility. And end up spoiling our racquet drop 😢
Maybe next analyze Nick at intuitive tennis forehand? Why does it look so different from the touring pro’s forehand? 😮
The first 2 points are what I have commented to him on his channel. The third point is a bit more controversial. You can find examples of pros rotated more, take Felipe Lopez as an extreme example who is facing his opponent at contact. Ideally you want to maintain some angle, how much depends on the DNA of the individual. A person needs to experiment to find what that is. And second point depends a lot on the amount of tilt back or lean. For instance, Fed doesn't tilt or arch back as much as say Roddick so Fed doesn't get as big of a drop as Roddick. Winston has so little tilt that it limits his drop totally. I would work on his tilt back as well as his flexibility.
does kyrgios not stop his body rotation like rafa and jj does?
It’s crazy that he has a tennis coach on his channel regularly who has never been able to do that analysis for him. I wonder why? Maybe because he lacks a Braden foundation and never paid his dues on the technical side to really know the nuts and bolts of actual technical development.
Boom. Hit the nail on the head. Coaches without a Braden background see the rug. Coaches with a Braden background see each thread. Thanks Jacob.
Eagle eye!
I love your content but those lines bother me. you cant extrapolate distances when the camera is at 2 different angles
Fix is very harsh word. Improve is better word
There isn’t a lot one can do for limited shoulder external rotation range. Winston’s is really poor for someone his age. It is as bad as mine and I’m in my 60’s and have had shoulder surgery. The most effective way to increase external rotation is throwing a weighted ball, but that comes with a level of risk that probably isn’t worth it for a recreational player.
I wonder why nobody does reactive break - arm tuck on forehand - on forehand you do exactly opposite you rotate fully without any break and hugging yourself is considered to be quiet big mistake
Here’s a video explaining the difference: ruclips.net/video/l5LLmDLXyDY/видео.htmlsi=AfXJK5vmkCJYGW6l
Agreed somewhat and good video. However in terms of him not pronating he clearly is otherwise he’ll hit ball on edge. Pros have extreme racquet drops as well. The serve at 13:50 appears to be a slice serve. Hence string orientation at finish. Felix doing a flat it appears. Be careful to the details!
Haha you’re funny. Be careful on the details? Pronation happens on every serve. Thanks for watching.
@@2MinuteTennis Wasn’t intending to be funny. You’re comparing two different serves man. Also the degree on pronation can vary on a slice serve. Some like to cup around the ball and others do more of continued pronation. Depends. Hence my comment and things should be pointed out like that imo…
@@bmanbusee3812you’re lecturing someone who has built one of the most successful tennis channels in the world by paying attention to details on a 21 minute video. If his strings are facing left after contact, he’s clearly not fully pronating.
@@nicholasnemeroff9871 I’m not lecturing just pointing out differences that most decent tennis players are aware of. You don’t think people can make mistakes? 😂.There’s a difference between not pronating at all, pronation into contact, and continued pronation after contact. If you don’t know this go and research. I’m assuming it was just a slip on his part along with not stating it was a slice serve
@@bmanbusee3812 that’s exactly what I just said though… he’s not fully pronating and he should be…you’re coming across as pretty condescending
3.0 NTRP serve at best
I bet it’s flexibility.
You called yourself 2minutestennis and you videos are way longer than 2 minutes. 😂😅
Hahahaha Facebook calls themselves Facebook and they aren’t a book of faces! LOL
Federal has high toss.
Who?
Federer and Nadal both have a toss timing of .83… they don’t have high tosses.
@@2MinuteTennisFederer and Nadals love baby
Knowing what to fix is just step 1. Knowing how to fix those things is much harder imo. Sometimes we just don't have the athletic and flexible body of the pro/better players. Moreover, the speed/precision/consistency of the serve might not directly relate to the motion of the body/racket. That is why I feel that the video analysis can be interesting, but not necessarily useful (sometimes even misleading or disruptive).
2 minute tennis? I gave up when I saw it was 20 mins plus.
1st comment
Hey thanks so much for watching Kodur
Bro comparing RUclipsr to ATP pro players 😂
Huh?
Why not look at the best examples for improvement?
@@zlzhao1104 nothing is wrong that. But he's kind of nit picking Winston's serve which is ok for his level
Nitpicking? That's the point of the video, to point out the things that he should be doing to improve and thus maximize his serve. There are always little things that can be done to make something better. If you consider that nitpicking then I guess you're not a fan of improvement.
@@A-A-crossfire5000 bruh Winston is not aiming to be a pro. he's just a RUclipsr who plays and hosts tennis matches for fun and entertainment. Like I said his serve is fine it doesn't have to resemble ATP Pro's serve motions. besides everyone has different kinds of serve. if his style works, it is not broken. so there is nothing to "Fix"
Excellent video this is something a professional coach would had to break it down you did it for us 👌✌️👏🫶😊
Thanks for the analysis. I don't agree on some points :
1 - not sure it's a good idea to toss lower and at the same time to try to add deeper racquet drop. A short racquet drop can also be the result of a toss too low.
2 - not a problem at all to finish with the free arm behind, Kyrgios does it at the beginning of the video. It's just important not to do it too early and to have it close to the body at impact.
Totally agree for the lack of pronation which is a power killer.
I have exactly the same racquet drop problem, very hard to solve, good luck ! Maybe indeed due to a lack of shoulder mobility for external rotation, bad habit, toss too low that does not give enough time, bad visualization of the swing.
The lack of pronation is interesting because if pronation is not the goal of the swing, things that lead to it, like supination, won't occur.
Thanks for the analysis. I don't agree on some points :
1 - not sure it's a good idea to toss lower and at the same time to try to add deeper racquet drop. A short racquet drop can also be the result of a toss too low.
2 - not a problem at all to finish with the free arm behind, Kyrgios does it at the beginning of the video. It's just important not to do it too early and to have it close to the body at impact.
Totally agree for the lack of pronation which is a power killer.
I have exactly the same racquet drop problem, very hard to solve, good luck ! Maybe indeed due to a lack of shoulder mobility for external rotation, bad habit, toss too low that does not give enough time, bad visualization of the swing.
The lack of pronation is interesting because if pronation is not the goal of the swing, things that lead to it, like supination, won't occur.
1 - working on both at the same time is encouraged since the simple fix to making both work is the increase racket speed, winston is an athletic 4.5 and records his gameplay so he should be fine.
2 - free arm behind is fine for pros because they have immense control over their bodies to not have it affect the dominant shoulder pulling forward too early. Amongst amateurs like us it is nearly always detrimental to our serves.
Agreed on pronation too!
A lot of things criticized here are more stylistic than actually technical. The coach seems to pick and choose players to support his points. For example, watch Federer's serves here ruclips.net/video/kGWdoNobnCM/видео.html . His hand moved up early, his racket didn't drop below his waist line, and his hand is higher than the elbow the entire time...
@@chubun6631 Federer is the worst example you can use for serve since he has a unique motion where he doesn't bend the racket all the way back like 99.9% of players and comes at the ball head up then pronates to the side for sidespin while the examples Ryan shows (some of who have the best serves in the game) deep bend and come at the ball sideways. Federer is a unique case and also EXTREMELY difficult to replicate like most of his form.
Here is Nadal's ruclips.net/video/T1Nvjzgn-_0/видео.html . Roddick's is even weirder ruclips.net/video/SZC_uAGut9s/видео.html he did dropped his racket lower and his hand close to being leveled with his elbow. But you can pick out many 'wrong' movements in his serve motion. I just believe those are stylistic and do not really matter. In the end, it just simply an exchange of momentums. Racket head and attacking angle at contact point are all that matter (racket weight, string tension, and other factors too, but those are fixed). Anything helps you to create racket head speed (together with a more square/flat contact) will result in a faster ball. With low drop, hand below elbow, ... you do have more space to accelerate so they should help. But if you are older, muscular, and not that flexible anymore (eg Fed, Nadal), it will more likely hurt than help.
@@chubun6631 The two videos you linked do exactly what Ryan said...