If you're going long and/or steep, best not go heavy and cheap. For a 10 mile out-and-camp, practically anything will do as long as it can handle the weather (users should completely familiarize themselves with the most secure pitch of their tent to avoid a catastrophe).
@@KyleHatesHiking It's no secret, brother! You should put up a disclaimer that you are a LONG DISTANCE hiker so people don't think that your default is always to prefer the UL glamour bits. 😉
Eh.. lol there’s nothing wrong sitting on a 1lb chair after hiking 20 miles. Unless you hike 50 yards in the woods to just sit on a $150 chair, but who am I to JUDGE.
I think one of the biggest scams is people getting psyched out of attempting a long hike, either from themselves or fear-mongering from others. I promise you, you are way tougher and way more badass than you even realize.
I feel this. For me it was planning a multi week motorcycle road trip with camping. Got a lot of people trying to convince me it was a bad idea. I'm glad that I didn't listen to them because that and subsequent trips were some of the best decisions I ever made.
People be buying ultra light gear and then there was Hugh Glass who was shot, mauled by a bear and left for dead and crawled 200 miles across a large portion of South Dakota mountains.
Outside of minor comfort upgrades, the entire backpacking gear marketing industry is pretty scammy. Like unless you're living out on the trail full time and constantly wearing down your gear, you don't need to be upgrading sleeping bags, tents, backpacks, etc every season. Buy once, cry once.
I think its just gear longevity. Gear needs to be replaced from time to time, and when its replaced the buyer will try to min/max a particular attribute, for example price or weight. A lot of stuff that hits those marks isnt made to last, and you are always a brainfart away from losing bits and pieces along the trail. You will never see those tie-downs again. You unpack, set up, take down, and repack seven times per week. Such wear and tear on the lightest weight items will take it toll, even when its characterized as made of "the strongest material," for after all they used that extra strength not to make it tougher but instead to make it lighter.
I bought budget gear to get me started. Then I work towards saving money for one piece of gear I really want to replace the budget item. I try to get one item every one to two years. That way I don’t feel like I’m breaking the bank.
The biggest scam is sleeping bag comfort ratings. They advertise a 0° 850 loft down bag/quilt and when it arrives it’s a freaking 35° bag (exaggerating but you get the idea) with an extreme survival rating of 0°. And you’re paying $350 for the damned bag. Just freaking be honest…
always go for bag AND quilt if there is a chance of 0 degree freedom unit situations - dont "go light" into the damn arctic - the real scam is thinking that any bag, alone, has got you fully covered in such situations. Its gambling.
Sassy Susie isn’t exaggerating. Maybe women just get insulted more but my first 2 night backpacking trip (which was solo), I wasn’t even on trail yet before an older gentleman crossed the parking lot to talk to me and proceeded to degrade my gear. Two other men I encountered on that same trip weren’t so direct but still made snide remarks. At the time, my gear was bulky because I was new and not investing big money yet, but I wasn’t unsafe, so there was no need for the comments. Happened on the east coast.
or maybe they feel safer to make remarks to women and keep their comments to themselves when it comes to men. TBH if you had cheap gear and minimal gear, enough to keep you safe. I would respect that over someone buying top notch, not knowing what they are doing, possibly breaking their gear. It's a whole learning experience.
But their marketing technique is crap. These 'drops' are crap. Why can't we order and get what we want? It is a bullshit technique that makes people think that the gear is superb when in fact it is just basic.
@@tianikane3312 their gear is superb and they do drops because he can only get so much manufactured at once. Understand it’s a small company - not a major player pumping out mass quantities
That's why every time I buy a tent I always treat it. I never take chance that they're waterproof. What's worse is when you buy a tent, treat it, and it's still not waterproof. Ground cloths are also used to protect the floor of the tent from wearing out. Another scam are survival kits. Best to create your own. I have only witnessed it once where two douches were preaching to some hikers that they didn't have the right gear. They encouraged them to turn back down the mountain. I informed the hikers that they were only ten minutes from the summit and to not turn around. They freaked out and turned around without going to the summit. Ridiculous! Their gear was just fine.
Biggest scam is RUclipsrs and backpacking companies promoting winter backpacking/camping that it's just as great as summer/warm weather camping...BS and they know it!
Seam sealing being an extra cost can seem kind of annoying these days. However, I'm old enough to remember when that was not even an option. You had to seam seal your own tent no matter what. Everybody had their own tube of sealant with that stupid brush left over from the last time they bought a tent. And the sealant looked like crap on the inside of the tent because we were all amateurs at sealing the seams. I got a Six Moons Luna Solo last year and SMASHED the button to add the option to have them seal the tent. SO worth it to not have to do that job. I think that companies who provide the option to let you do it yourself are actually just giving old-schoolers a chance to save a few bucks and keep the price of their stuff a little lower. For me, it was just about the easiest $35 I've ever spent.
And SMD gear is a good balance of high quality, lightweight and cost compared to the bigger brands. Sure, the sil-nylon weighs a slight amount more than DCF, but the price is half for essentially the same design.
I dont mind paying more money on quality gear if I know its made here in the U.S (or Canada), bc I know the labor costs are more, and I try to support American made products and companies. What ticks me off is when “American” companies try to sell their gear at ridiculous prices and then you scroll down to see that its made in Asia or Mexico.
Or even saying Made in America when it is one of the other Americas they are talking about like Central America or South America when you read the even smaller print below the made in America. What they need to do is stop using America for USA and use the full name/abbreviation for made in USA. Problem is technically made in America, is North America including Mexico, South America and Central America does count as made in America or even calling some of the gulf coast islands non US owned as Made in America when they are either on own or in the North American ridge.
As an avid motorcycle rider who occasionally camps I live by the saying buy once cry once wether it is parts for the bike or gear for going outdoors. Have an awesome day everyone.
Wait. Seriously? You’ve never had the guy who walked and just chose violence? There was a dude sectioning the AT who came up to a shelter one night when I was there with about six other hikers. He told us that we had called it a day too early, that everyone’s gear was shit. “That pack is shit. That sleeping pad is too heavy. Bear can? Literally no one carries a bear can on the AT (ummmm, demonstrably wrong due to the evidence in front of you). That food we were eating for breakfast? Awful. You can NEVER hike the whole AT with that food. Don’t worry about what you like. It’s all about cal per gram. Omg, Brooks? You are hiking in BROOKS? Those are for street running. Altras are so shit and overhyped.” Dude went on and on and on. One guy eventually told him to calm the eff down and he was like, “um, I’ve been sectioning the AT for YEARS now. Im just trying to help you since you guys CLEARLY need the advice.” We kept crossing paths for the week he was on trail and he was like, “you still have that --? Ha. You’ll end up switching that wayyyyyy before you hit PA.” Carried my Ursack the whole trail. Never changed any of my big stuff. ❤ Dick. ❤
HAHAHA Thanks for the shout out Kyle I forgive you for being drunk when you told me ;) haha I really actually like seeing what people use and why they like it, it's just the unfortunate annoyingly condescending few (2-3 a year) that get me.
The big difference between Durston and companies like Zpacks, Lite AF, Waymark etc is their gear is made off shore for next to nothing. I know many people could care less their gear is made by some 12 year old chained to a sewing machine but I do. Screw Durston, more China crap.
Dan is on record stating they only mark their gear up $50 - $100 depending on production cost and that's a very good deal because of lot of this stuff has been marked up 300% - 400% by the time you put it in your cart.
One time (very recently), in Desolation Wilderness I had a UL nerd tell me all my gear was wrong and I needed to change it all out. That’s the only time I’ve experienced it.
My experience in Desolation is there's a ton of weekend warrior types who are loud and obnoxious on the trail, let their dogs run wild, and keep messy camps and don't store food properly (hence why they finally made it canister-only last year) I don't really enjoy it out there, especially the PCT section. Too many Tahoe yahoos! But damn it's cool landscape
@@AmbuBadger Depends on which part of it you go to. There are definitely areas I've hiked and saw no one for days. I met this jerk on the the PCT section that goes through Desolation, and that area is always pretty crowded.
Ratings on sleep systems are ridiculous. Temperatures on bags are a survival or extreme rating but some high end companies are a comfort rating. So I’m supposed to wonder what the story is and call every company I’m interested in to find out? Which I have done. R ratings on air mattresses. I’ve seen charts on the internet that are specifically converting R value to temperature for air mattresses give different information from each other. I’m supposed to guess with this too? Give a damn temperature.
Companies that are comfort rates that come to mind are Feathered friends, Katabatic gear, western mountaineering, Hammock gear, gryphon gear, UGQ, and cumulus.
Do they not list all ratings when they advertise in the US? We even get a tab on the sleeping bag itself showing the upper limit/comfort/lower limit/extreme ratings here in Europe 😅
@@Ellie-rx3jt yes some cover all on the bag, not necessarily on the site. Do all sites n Europe give such information? R value on pads means nothing when charts give different temps.
@@Ellie-rx3jt I bought a Montbell sleeping bag from Japan (I live in Thailand) and it has a comfort and extreme rating. I thought it was now an international standard enforced by a single organization (at least for down).
My dad is an AT thru hiker from way back and when he took me on the long trail we used a stove that was just a soda can with some holes poked in it. Super ultra light, effective and cost a dollar
The issue with anything made from DCF is that there's a single source for it, and that company was purchased for just shy of 1.5 billion last year. We should expect prices to continue going up for any gear companies that didn't have an airtight pricing agreement in place prior to the acquisition.
that is complete bullshit. there are MULTIPLE companies that are making cuben fiber or as you hipsters call it "dcf"..... stop being lazy. if you look around, you can purchase it from different places. the key is to look into competition sailing equipment suppliers. dont ever buy it from anybody that has to do with hiking and outdoors.
Amen. It’s a scam they haven’t developed an automated way to make DCF so it’s cheaper. The huge cost mainly comes from the manual laminating processes. At least we have Ultra brand fabrics now for packs, too, which are competitive with DCF. Maybe competition will help drive down prices.
Pricing. Sometimes justified but often a factor of 'what the market is prepared to tolerate'. 'Ultralight'. Often a trap that encourages people to buy and carry more gear 'because it is so light'. 30kg of ultralight gear still weighs 30kg.
The biggest and dangerous.....is goretex...let me down over 20 years.... multiple jackets many different fabrics all s..t!? What a waste and life threatening...too 😔
RE..Cost.. Depending on what you're doing how much do top of the line car camping setups cost? motor homes ? camper trailers? overseas motel holidays with air fares bikepacking , yachting maybe. I have a bunch of Zpacks gear and others and I think it's cheap compared to other types of holiday adventures. I go hiking with ferrari type gear and love it.
I quit buying most gear years ago, got tired of wasting money trying to find what works for my type of hiking so now I just make my gear. But that required learning a whole skill set! 😀 Also most people are on trails while I'm exploring the deep, dark woods... they don't sell a lot of gear for that.
I can attest if you're looking for a quality backpack, I purchased a medium sized "EAGLE CREEK" backpack over 10 yrs ago and it's in as pristine condition today as the day I bought it. I not only use it when I'm hiking but I stuff my heaviest groceries in it every week when I shop and it's never shown any wear. Not a failing zipper or tear & most importantly the straps at the shoulders (which hold all the weight) have never suffered from any wear or tears. It's the most remarkably durable backpack I've ever purchased. (Not pricey either)!💓🎒💓Safe & happy trails...🚶♀🚶♂🏕🌳🌲🌳🐿🌲🦝🌳🦔🌳
Biggest scam in camping is telling people they need a tent, especially when a 10x12 tarp costs less than $50 and u can use it for more than just making an aframe.
It has to be sleeping bag temperature ratings especially since a lot of bags have the survival temp in the name. Nobody cares about the temperature they will survive with only frostbite at. Give the temp most people will be comfortable at and not have to search to find it.
A scam I was told when I started out back packing was to go to stores to buy the things I needed. Luckily I've been in the marines and the MPs and know how to make do with what I have/can afford. Second hand markets are a great resource for cheap gear and if you have your hands/head screwed on right you can probably fix some broken items for cheap.
@@boathemian7694 It sure as hell did. I was in the marines in Denmark but I assume you we're in the USMC. It wasn't always the most fun experience but whenever you got back to base it was a hoot to chat about the days that had gone by, shitty or not 😄.
I think what Phil was talking about or at least how I feel is you can't get a good review from a product if you know the person is being incentivized by that product company. I have been in the fitness industry for years and I stopped counting the amount of times that guys were pushing a supplement and talking like it was the best thing since sliced bread only to go to another company and do the same thing about their competing product.
Dyneema is expensive material. As someone that just got into making their own gear dyneema is not cheap, even for the big brands, plus labor, etc. I get why zpacks are expensive. I'd never buy one but I get it. I'm sure their profit margins are dumb, but I can see why a tent costs 600 doll hairs.
Came here to say this, plus they were an early adopter of Dyneema. For the rest of the reviewer: Yes, the old school DIYers gram counters have been scavenging it for decades, when you couldn’t buy Dyneema by the yard. Zpacks was NOT using it 1st, just because you saw it on RUclips 😂. Packs are used for many things, not just hiking. Climbing and skiing packs have to be bomber, and HMG packs are bomber, overkill for the once a month wannabe hiker.
I'm a bicycle tourist on the road half of every year so gear interests overlap with hiker gear. I get so tired of people on my social media who have never lived on the road telling me what gear I should use. Like Suzy, I am also on a budget too. It's easy to know what somebody else should do from behind a phone screen inside their house🤣
I am carrying a small bear canister (BV 350/400) on the AT for my thruhike this year. I am aware that I might not be able to pack all my food in the canister for a given stretch between resupply points, so I am prepared to hang the most disposable food (if there's such a thing) and store the rest in the canister. I will be carrying the canister inside of my ULA CDT on top of the DCF liner. Your mention of carrying your food in your pack with the empty canister brought this to mind. Thanks! 👍
I made my own groundcloths. I use them to keep from having to scrape mud off my tent. Easier to handle the groundcloth. Offers a bit of abrasion/puncture resistance.
I'm okay with youtubers trying to sell me stuff as long as their whole catalogue isn't 90% gear talk with repetitive titles such as "5 pieces of gear every beginner needs"
Alot of people cry about the price of hiking gear but waste money on other stuff like alcohol, cars, fashionable clothes etc etc. If hiking is your number 1 passion and you spend a good amount of time in the outdoors, dropping a few grand on your gear is peanuts. Like make a few sacrifices, pack your lunch, cook at home, skip Starbucks. Like maybe you just have far too many other hobbies?
One Scam I see is some very light Run packing gear in the 25--28L, maybe 29--30 L range trying to be pushed as working for UL overnight when 90% of the brands packs do not have a bracing system or stiffener pad in them at all or ability to use one so they will only work for runners who are continually moving on a very long trail and do not need a tent, sleeping bag or other heavier gear you want for standard UL packing like the super light stove/lighter wood stove. Even overnight stops on run packing these packs will not work as they then start to get sloppy with the heavier pieces of gear in them. The run packer wanting to do an overnight camp would need to get some of the overnight UL packs in the same 25--30L that are made, for a lightweight tent and sleeping bag.
I bought a backpack that wasn't seam sealed and it was a pain to do it myself. Never again will I buy a hiking product that isn't seam sealed. Definitely a scam if a company isn't seam sealing their products.
ground cloths sold separate are not a scam. I don’t use a ground cloth, on the rare times I have I use tyvek or a contractor bag cut to size. I don’t want to pay an extra $20-$30 for a ground cloth. also I would happily pay $30 - $50 less for a tent and then buy a $4 tube and seam seal it myself. Im not complaining about doing my own seam sealing as long as the savings is being passed along to me. When I get a new tent I want to set it up anyway and do some mods so might as well seam seal it too
I got a Granite Gear 50L pack that is at the 2 lb mark(32 oz) at a third of the cost. Honestly it is a good pack. To those that say it's not waterproof. All I do is add a pack liner at only a few grams weight penalty.
Companies like ZPacks only post 5 star reviews. Bad reviews which can be pretty accurate, are ignored. Like the bearcan strap. I tried it before my JMT, and the bearcan fell out right away. I ended up putting it vertical inside my backpack which worked out perfectly. I had my jacket underneath to protect the integrity of the backpack though. Some light damage was unavoidable but it was so much better than carrying it outside.
Kyle, just recently found your channel and I love it. I enjoy the vlog style content. I enjoy the authenticity and your personality coming through in yhe videos. I'm an avid backpacker and outdoor recreationalist in my 20s. I strongly identify with your media and I hope you continue to produce.
The biggest scam in backpacking isn't gear, it's gear pricing. High end brand markups are in the hundreds of percent and that's just crazy. That isn't to say you're only paying for a name, though. The gear is absolutely better. A Naturehike tent is a good tent, but it is *not* a Marmot or a Big Agnes tent, never mind a Z-packs or Durston. A Decathlon backpack is a good backpack, but it is *not* a Gregory or an Osprey. Fortunately, Naturehike tents and Decathlon backpacks are good enough for 90% of people who buy tents and backpacks, so they don't need to spend $400 on something that only cost $20 to produce.
$500 Gore-Tex jackets. Basically, none of the breathable fabrics keep you dry when you're hiking hard in temperate weather. In recent years I've been using $30 jackets from high-street outdoor chains and they've performed just as well. If you shop around you can find examples that are well designed and cut and use decent fabrics, at well under 1/10th the price of the fancy brands.
I sew for a living. I made for myself a 12’ dia. 3/5 geodesic dodecahedron tent. The footprint fits inside of a 10’x10’ square. It wasn’t cheap to make and took 24 hours to sew. Weights 17lbs. I charge $60/hr labor. That’s $720 right there. Granted I’m not 12 living under my sewing machine at night. Learn to sew. Then judge. Also, sewing ultra light fabric requires a learning curve and a quality sewing machine.
For me the biggest scam is the ultralight concept. Why compromise your survival by packing half a razor blade instead of the whole knife? Might as well leave it at home and flint nap yourself a knife. Why cut the handle off your toothbrush? Might as well just leave it at home and use your finger with some toothpaste or feather a birch twig with your flint napped knife you made. I get wanting to get your pack weight down as much as possible but why sacrifice functionality to save a few grams? A pack 15lbs or less is what I personally carry for a DAY HIKE. My backpacking pack is typically between 25-30lbs give or take a couple pounds. Yes I want to drop a few more pounds but without sacrificing functionality or comfort. My goal is to get as close to 20llbs as possible.
You have to understand, a long time ago we were "ultralighting" and many guys didn't want the added 1oz of seam sealing. It adds an ounce or more of weight to most tents. Tarptent didn't even offer seam sealing option originally. I have slept in old school tarptents (before they even offered seam sealing), and they barely dripped anything and it was usually in one or two spots. I woke up dry but yes the floor was wet. The bag/quilt/pad did a lot to stop small drips from a leaking seam.
Part of the premium associated with ZPacks tents, etc. is that fact of their manufacture in the United States. Personally, I'm willing to pay that premium to assure my gear isn't made in sweatshop conditions and to keep resources in local communities. Admittedly, I have the resources to make that possible, and I recognize not everyone can afford that level of financial expenditure.
I think the biggest scam is the sites that tell you which gear you really need and why you need it instead of just talking about the gear. I am not talking about then suggesting a tent or trekking poles, but the ones that say you need this kind of tent and this kind of trekking poles only to find out it leads back to the site shop itself.
Replying to Mathias's comment in the video: Zpacks products are made in the USA, rather than being manufactured outside of the country. This allows us to offer job opportunities to the people in our community and do our part in strengthening the economy. We also use only the best ultralight materials available.
Calling me out on scamming myself. I’ve now purchased three rain coats. $70, a thrifted one for $15, another one for $86. Coulda just bought a goretex one by now 🤦🏾♀️
People need to think about the gear we had back in the ‘70s - twice as heavy and half as functional - yet we got along just fine; stop trying to be perfect and just enjoy your trip!
I agree hyperlite is really overpriced. Their packs are some of the simplest on the market (cheapest to manufacture) and they are made in Mexico and they are using DCF which is inherently much less durable than Ultra, yet they are extremely pricy.
I’d you’re going to spend money on a light weight pack you should just order from superior wilderness designs… super solid packs .. and you can customize them … only setback is they make them all by hand to your specifications so it usually takes about 8 to 14 weeks to get you’re pack… but for it’s totally worth it and they are no longer usiyDCF they have moved to ultra.. but I think if you wanted a pack made from dcf they would Probably do it
Usually never comment on RUclips but I have to give you props Kyle for finally finding a way to pull viewers in with your "Hiking's Most Wanted" lineup of stories....genius idea. I've been watching your channel for several years and couldn't believe you never got to 40k with your incredible PCT journey last year. Anyway, thumbs up for doubling your subscribers without subjecting us to the T&A trick😁.
Hike the AT in 21"> Loved my Hyperlite Pack! With that said I did buy 3 Hyperlite pods to keep my self organized, those were $60 each which I thought was CRAZY expensive! Looked at the tents but they were are ARE outrageously expensive> Went with a Big Agnes FlyCreek HV UL2 which I absolutely loved! Keep Kicking Tail with the Channel and SUBS Kids!
I like Ray Jardine's point regarding buying "name brand" gear.... He doesn't buy name brand gear... he would rather make his own. Now this is coming from an old grumpy hiker that has never been able to afford a $600 1 person tent. In 2000, I rewalked Colin Fletcher's 1000 Mile Summer ( Mexico to Oregon along the east side of California, NOT THE PCT) and used gear that was a good/great value. Yes... I acquired a Dana pack, but my bivy was a $40 SLUMBERJACK (if I recall correctly) NOT the $200 name brand. It worked just fine with a little fine-tuning. I did spend some money on my sleeping gear though as I found I can be a Grumpy Hiker when I don't get a good night sleep... but the rest of my gear was very affordable (CHEAP). My thinking has always been, my body will adapt to the weight I carry IF I slowly strengthen up for my hikes. I find myself laughing when I see some hiking clown worrying about "Ounces/grams" when they are 40 pounds overweight!!! Ease into your hike, don't do a marathon approach. Start slow and if you are a little heavy (either in gear or in gut) take short days and rest in the beginning and you usually will pickup the miles as you get into a good groove. I lollygagged the whole way.... never made it a race. Some days were 20+ milers and other days I sat and cried all day (wife decided the boyfriend was more important) seriously though... the trail dictates the mileage each day. When I came off the WEST side of White Mountain east of Bishop, standing along the ridge at 12,000' thinking, well, the valley floor is at about 4,000 ft so that leaves about 8,000 all down hill!!!! Gee how long can THAT take.... a day at the most??? WRONG I walked out to Chalvant Valley Burger stand about 2-3/4 days later and it was the FREAKING WORSE 3 DAYS OF THE 6 MONTH HIKE!!!! Fletcher didn't care for it either and suggested never to do it... Being an old school hiker, and carrying a LOT of water (Death Valley/Saline Valley) and food/gear resupplies being 2-3 weeks apart, my pack weight many times was bumping a ridiculous 80 pounds. The PCT is more like hiking at Disneyland compared to stomping through Death Valley and onto the Inyo/Whites with no one around for weeks. I did get used to the weight.... when I was in Bridgeport I guessed my pack weight at 50-55 lbs.... NOPE it was 81 or 83 (its been 23 years ago). And like I said your body can/will adjust..... to the adventure IF you just start slow and steady. When I started The WALK in 2000, I hadn't hiked in almost 2 years, and NEVER did anymore than a 5-10 miler. I went from Washington State balmy winter of 40 degrees to Mexico at mid-high 90's. Darkish days to NEW YORK BRIGHT days. High moisture to VERY little in the 3 day drive down. Talk about a complete shock to one's body!!! YIKES!!!!!!! So back to expensive gear.... NOPE, not needed. It would be better to buy used gear that is made very well, then to buy cheap, but whatever you buy, make sure it will do the job!!! Again, the "Cheapy" Slumberjack brand lasted the whole way and then 2 more seasons afterwards. One last thing that is VERY important.... I take excellent care of my gear. I have friends who treat their gear like gorillas in heat. They can trash the toughest of gear in seconds. I've sat and laughed my butt off watching Ernie, the Idiot, accidentally catch his stove on fire (over pressured) and then in his panic burn a good size hole in his $350 tent and $250 sleeping bag. Also, I've watched MANY times sparks from a campfire settle on the best of tent flys. That goes for expensive fishing poles as well I might add.... So... like Kyle said... buy gear that can keep you SAFE.... and.... if you are like Ernie the Idiot.... stay home and take up bowling!!!
I own a HMG UltaMid 2 and it has NEVER FAILED ME. I’ve hiked over a thousand miles on the Appalachian Trail and I have never been wet inside. I will say hikers who own other Dyneema tents (including ZPacks) had to abandon their tents and go into shelters after a rain storm and I have always been 100% dry. HMG tents are worth their weight in gold and would be happy to spend the money to purchase another one. Without hesitation.
That part of about people abandoning their Zpacks tent during a rain storm seams a bit much. I own some Zapcks tents and I have never had any issues. They are DCF just like your tent they just don’t leak. I have never met a person that their DCF tent leaked.
I have an altaplex and have had side ways rain come in my tent and if there were high winds and lower temps I would understand if a shelter was close and the wind is knocking rain through the mesh that not staying in a paper bag might be a quieter night.
I am personally all about tarp tent .. I have a stratosphere LI… And that thin is solid it handles wind really well and has never failed me … it can be a Little tough to put up in high winds but all trekking pole tents can be … to me It’s worth to money for Certain pieces of gear … I know once my tent is up and my quilt is dry I am good to go no matter what the weather is …that being said if I. spend the money on on a something from a cottage company they better stand behind it … that’s where I draw the line and for the most part I have had very little problems with the gear I have bought and it I did most companies have repaired or sent out. A replacement products…
Biggest scam is the backpacking trend. Like any trend it fosters competitiveness and it has sucked the fun and purpose out of backpacking and being outdoors over the past 15 years. I'm not talking about UL gear alone. It's anything that has fostered a "look at me" moment and that can be most things talked about on this and every other outdoor YT channel since YT began.
I do a lot of multi day trips, and I refuse to go lightweight on my backpack and my shelter. All though my three person tent that weighs less than three pounds might be considered lightweight !
Never had anyone criticize your gear? Must be carrying all the "right" stuff. All Ultralight gear prices are out of control and can make the average hiker not want to go - either too heavy or too costly. Have carried a 10 - 12 kg outfit (minus water) comfortably throughout southern hiking for a long time. still hiking at 72.
I wonder if you bumped into the PCT Thru Hiker in the desert that was hiking with a pink JanSport book bag. He was putting in some of those long night hikes in the desert with Quadzilla.
Yes I did! I was actually with him the day he picked up his Jansport lol. His name was pyro, badass hiker, one of the few who could actually hike successfully with a Jansport lol
I paid $120 for a new (never used) LiteFighter 2 person tent worth $535 and bought the additional stuff sack for $85 to attach to my pack. It incudes a full bug net, rain fly, patch kit, stakes, and poles.
Some gear can be acquired through gear swaps with your local community hiking clubs or university groups. You're going to need to check it all out thoroughly but you will save a ton of money this way. Have fun out there !
I see people complaining about price when it comes to a lot of products for backpacking as well as overlanding equipment/off road RVs. However, people have to realize they usually fall into a specialty category. Meaning, Small quantities, often hand-built and made out a more expensive materials. You just can’t fairly expect the same prices for these type of products to mass produced, machine built, assembly line items, often made over seas.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The best rucksacks in history were made by Alpine Designs of Colorado. They had an indestructible shoulder strap attachment with clevis pins connecting pack, internal stays, and strap. When my first one finally wore out after 40 years of hard use, I scoured the internet and found a replacement by merging two used packs. Backpacks with sewn shoulder attachments are junk that fails as are backpacks with zippers. The best full-sized internal-frame backpacks were made by Gregory. I got an early garbage can-style Gregory pack when the company was still owned by a man named Gregory. The design has never been surpassed. The backpack market is like the safety razor market: full of trendy "innovations" that are only innovative ways to make money off the trend-driven unwary.
The double coated silicone tents have to be seam sealed by hand, there is no other way to sea seal them, so you either do it yourself or pay the company to do it.
6:58 I did a lot of research on various tents for two people before I bought my Tarptent. I went ahead and sealed the seams myself, it took me about an hour seal the seams for like $5 worth of materials. I was really happy with my Tarptent. When I get back into backpacking I’m completely open to buying another Tarptent.
If I want comfort, safety and a good night's sleep, I can carry 5 kg. more (what's the point of hiking if you can't sleep well and feel more tired the next day) Super light tents it's a circus in the forest 😀 Good luck in cold, windy and buggy conditions and have a cool hike 🏕️
When I first started backpacking I bought cheap everything, you need so much gear when starting out and I didn’t know how I would like it. I was also getting gear for my kid too, so we just had to be cheap. Much of the gear I did replace throughout the years, one piece at a time. However, I bought a 30$ whisper light MSR stove and am still using it 15 years later. Some of the cheap stuff is actually really good and there is no need to spend extra money on a label or brand name. I have also bought expensive brand names that have failed on the first use (North Face, Columbia, Cotopaxi, I am looking at you.)
20 years ago thru hikers used MSR whisper light liquid fuel, heavy water filters. The tents were 4 pounds. I hiked with 40 to 45 pounds and you know we all made it .
Yes, we did. My first tent was oiled canvas. Talk about dragging a chain carrying those heavy weights. I have a HMG tent now which is an absolute dream in comparison. And so easy to carry....
This is a reverse hiking scam. Men’s dress socks are extremely expensive and the exact same weight as what I think of as a liner sock. Light hiking socks are much less expensive and made of better materials and are definitely more durable.
‘Ultralight’ gear is expensive, because the marketing has turned it into a buzzword that demands a premium. Companies are getting away with charging more for less. Nylon and Aluminum have been used as tent materials since the 70’s but now it’s considered a premium fabric, lol. And the less denier, the more expensive it is. SilPoly is a perfect example. Previously it was believed to be an inferior tent material and cost less. Now it’s considered as a premium option over nylon…shitbrained. These companies just be selling ya’ll on the flavor of the week and convincing you it cost more than it did last week.
Biggest scam is this channel hasn’t hit 100k subs yet.
👍👍👍ABSOLUTE TRUTH!
That's the result of runaway Consumerism.
The choice lies with the Consumer.
Right!!!!!
109k now.
Guess the algorithm heard you
Now it has! It's definitely growing fast! 👏💕
@@katiix see that happen often.. hits a certain amount then it takes off. Tbf kyles content has changed a bit and has been well received by viewers
biggest scam is that people think you constantly need the latest and greatest overpriced gear
true
That’s true for most things in life nowadays also
That’s just good marketing from the fabricators.
it sucks, but this is what keeps the market moving.
If you're going long and/or steep, best not go heavy and cheap. For a 10 mile out-and-camp, practically anything will do as long as it can handle the weather (users should completely familiarize themselves with the most secure pitch of their tent to avoid a catastrophe).
I’m beginning to think Kyle is scamming us and he actually doesn’t hate hiking.
Shhhh don't tell anyone
Some say it’s a conspiracy but follow the trail… where’s the biking videos? Kyle. Hates. Biking.
@@KyleHatesHiking It's no secret, brother!
You should put up a disclaimer that you are a LONG DISTANCE hiker so people don't think that your default is always to prefer the UL glamour bits. 😉
LOL!
😂😂😂 QUIT SNITCHING 😂
biggest scam is paying $150 for UL camp chairs when you can just stay home and sit on your couch for free
Eh.. lol there’s nothing wrong sitting on a 1lb chair after hiking 20 miles. Unless you hike 50 yards in the woods to just sit on a $150 chair, but who am I to JUDGE.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Not free, ads and subscriptions ;)
That’s not true. You had to buy the couch correct? And you have to pay rent. And utilities. So no, it’s not free to sit home 😂
@@Dave_Outside not everyone pays rent some of us pay mortgages
I think one of the biggest scams is people getting psyched out of attempting a long hike, either from themselves or fear-mongering from others. I promise you, you are way tougher and way more badass than you even realize.
I feel this. For me it was planning a multi week motorcycle road trip with camping. Got a lot of people trying to convince me it was a bad idea. I'm glad that I didn't listen to them because that and subsequent trips were some of the best decisions I ever made.
im disabled because of my spine. ive always wanted to hike. just dont know what i can accomplish.
People are tough af, it amazes me. You never know what you got in ya until you're put to the test.
People be buying ultra light gear and then there was Hugh Glass who was shot, mauled by a bear and left for dead and crawled 200 miles across a large portion of South Dakota mountains.
The wilderness is a lot more "badass" than you'll ever be.
Outside of minor comfort upgrades, the entire backpacking gear marketing industry is pretty scammy. Like unless you're living out on the trail full time and constantly wearing down your gear, you don't need to be upgrading sleeping bags, tents, backpacks, etc every season. Buy once, cry once.
I work at REI and most of us agree with you.
I think its just gear longevity. Gear needs to be replaced from time to time, and when its replaced the buyer will try to min/max a particular attribute, for example price or weight. A lot of stuff that hits those marks isnt made to last, and you are always a brainfart away from losing bits and pieces along the trail. You will never see those tie-downs again. You unpack, set up, take down, and repack seven times per week. Such wear and tear on the lightest weight items will take it toll, even when its characterized as made of "the strongest material," for after all they used that extra strength not to make it tougher but instead to make it lighter.
I bought budget gear to get me started. Then I work towards saving money for one piece of gear I really want to replace the budget item. I try to get one item every one to two years. That way I don’t feel like I’m breaking the bank.
This is the way to go!!
The biggest scam is sleeping bag comfort ratings. They advertise a 0° 850 loft down bag/quilt and when it arrives it’s a freaking 35° bag (exaggerating but you get the idea) with an extreme survival rating of 0°. And you’re paying $350 for the damned bag. Just freaking be honest…
THIS part!
ABSOLUTELY!!!
I work at REI and have this conversation every single time I sell a sleeping bag. I wish the industry were compelled to put two numbers on there.
always go for bag AND quilt if there is a chance of 0 degree freedom unit situations - dont "go light" into the damn arctic - the real scam is thinking that any bag, alone, has got you fully covered in such situations. Its gambling.
0 Celsius. Come on now
Sassy Susie isn’t exaggerating. Maybe women just get insulted more but my first 2 night backpacking trip (which was solo), I wasn’t even on trail yet before an older gentleman crossed the parking lot to talk to me and proceeded to degrade my gear. Two other men I encountered on that same trip weren’t so direct but still made snide remarks. At the time, my gear was bulky because I was new and not investing big money yet, but I wasn’t unsafe, so there was no need for the comments. Happened on the east coast.
I’ve also had older men criticize my gear. Maybe this happens more often to us women?
They paid $3,000+/- so that they can be snobs. They're not real tramps.
or maybe they feel safer to make remarks to women and keep their comments to themselves when it comes to men. TBH if you had cheap gear and minimal gear, enough to keep you safe. I would respect that over someone buying top notch, not knowing what they are doing, possibly breaking their gear. It's a whole learning experience.
“Bears have massive cans.” I laughed out loud at that one.
haha glad i got ya
so glad i looked at the screen at that moment ugh such a good hook
I laughed out loud too and scared my pet bear
Fake news. Bears got cheeks.
@@helpfulcommenter Hahaha! (Stock footage from the bear p**n website).🐻💋🐻
One company that is for sure NOT a scam, Durston Gear. Well priced, top quality.
Yes! Great gear!
Agree.
I want tent. No have tent money.
But their marketing technique is crap. These 'drops' are crap. Why can't we order and get what we want? It is a bullshit technique that makes people think that the gear is superb when in fact it is just basic.
@@tianikane3312 their gear is superb and they do drops because he can only get so much manufactured at once. Understand it’s a small company - not a major player pumping out mass quantities
That's why every time I buy a tent I always treat it. I never take chance that they're waterproof. What's worse is when you buy a tent, treat it, and it's still not waterproof. Ground cloths are also used to protect the floor of the tent from wearing out. Another scam are survival kits. Best to create your own.
I have only witnessed it once where two douches were preaching to some hikers that they didn't have the right gear. They encouraged them to turn back down the mountain. I informed the hikers that they were only ten minutes from the summit and to not turn around. They freaked out and turned around without going to the summit. Ridiculous! Their gear was just fine.
Biggest scam is RUclipsrs and backpacking companies promoting winter backpacking/camping that it's just as great as summer/warm weather camping...BS and they know it!
Hahaha this is facts
Winter is better lol. I don’t leave my house between May and September. If I ever get to climb Denali, I guess I’ll go out in June. 😎
Enjoy being soft
Seam sealing being an extra cost can seem kind of annoying these days. However, I'm old enough to remember when that was not even an option. You had to seam seal your own tent no matter what. Everybody had their own tube of sealant with that stupid brush left over from the last time they bought a tent. And the sealant looked like crap on the inside of the tent because we were all amateurs at sealing the seams. I got a Six Moons Luna Solo last year and SMASHED the button to add the option to have them seal the tent. SO worth it to not have to do that job. I think that companies who provide the option to let you do it yourself are actually just giving old-schoolers a chance to save a few bucks and keep the price of their stuff a little lower. For me, it was just about the easiest $35 I've ever spent.
And SMD gear is a good balance of high quality, lightweight and cost compared to the bigger brands. Sure, the sil-nylon weighs a slight amount more than DCF, but the price is half for essentially the same design.
Agree 1000% on that seam sealing upsell BS
I dont mind paying more money on quality gear if I know its made here in the U.S (or Canada), bc I know the labor costs are more, and I try to support American made products and companies. What ticks me off is when “American” companies try to sell their gear at ridiculous prices and then you scroll down to see that its made in Asia or Mexico.
Or even saying Made in America when it is one of the other Americas they are talking about like Central America or South America when you read the even smaller print below the made in America. What they need to do is stop using America for USA and use the full name/abbreviation for made in USA. Problem is technically made in America, is North America including Mexico, South America and Central America does count as made in America or even calling some of the gulf coast islands non US owned as Made in America when they are either on own or in the North American ridge.
As an avid motorcycle rider who occasionally camps I live by the saying buy once cry once wether it is parts for the bike or gear for going outdoors. Have an awesome day everyone.
How sweet. Stay safe and happy travels.🛵🏕🌲🌲🌲🌲🌲🌲
Wait. Seriously? You’ve never had the guy who walked and just chose violence? There was a dude sectioning the AT who came up to a shelter one night when I was there with about six other hikers. He told us that we had called it a day too early, that everyone’s gear was shit. “That pack is shit. That sleeping pad is too heavy. Bear can? Literally no one carries a bear can on the AT (ummmm, demonstrably wrong due to the evidence in front of you). That food we were eating for breakfast? Awful. You can NEVER hike the whole AT with that food. Don’t worry about what you like. It’s all about cal per gram. Omg, Brooks? You are hiking in BROOKS? Those are for street running. Altras are so shit and overhyped.” Dude went on and on and on. One guy eventually told him to calm the eff down and he was like, “um, I’ve been sectioning the AT for YEARS now. Im just trying to help you since you guys CLEARLY need the advice.” We kept crossing paths for the week he was on trail and he was like, “you still have that --? Ha. You’ll end up switching that wayyyyyy before you hit PA.”
Carried my Ursack the whole trail. Never changed any of my big stuff.
❤ Dick. ❤
HAHAHA Thanks for the shout out Kyle I forgive you for being drunk when you told me ;) haha I really actually like seeing what people use and why they like it, it's just the unfortunate annoyingly condescending few (2-3 a year) that get me.
Probably hiking bros mansplaining.
@@TheCinder24 *snicker*
does it leak? does it carry your stuff?
As long as the answers are no and yes, respectively, then you are all good to go
May all their food get eaten by bears and other critters on the trail.
I think Dan Durston is doing it right for balancing cost/weight/features/durability in his gear offerings.
Yes great gear. I use the Kakwa backpack and xmid pro. Both are great
The big difference between Durston and companies like Zpacks, Lite AF, Waymark etc is their gear is made off shore for next to nothing. I know many people could care less their gear is made by some 12 year old chained to a sewing machine but I do. Screw Durston, more China crap.
Dan is on record stating they only mark their gear up $50 - $100 depending on production cost and that's a very good deal because of lot of this stuff has been marked up 300% - 400% by the time you put it in your cart.
One time (very recently), in Desolation Wilderness I had a UL nerd tell me all my gear was wrong and I needed to change it all out. That’s the only time I’ve experienced it.
I just avoid desolation wilderness. There’s tons of way better and way less crowded spots to hike and camp in the northern sierras
My experience in Desolation is there's a ton of weekend warrior types who are loud and obnoxious on the trail, let their dogs run wild, and keep messy camps and don't store food properly (hence why they finally made it canister-only last year)
I don't really enjoy it out there, especially the PCT section. Too many Tahoe yahoos! But damn it's cool landscape
Please tell me that you told the snoot to mind his own &*#*%#* business.
Bummer, so Desolation Wilderness ain't _desolate,_ which defeats the purpose of getting out there in the first place.
@@AmbuBadger Depends on which part of it you go to. There are definitely areas I've hiked and saw no one for days. I met this jerk on the the PCT section that goes through Desolation, and that area is always pretty crowded.
Ratings on sleep systems are ridiculous. Temperatures on bags are a survival or extreme rating but some high end companies are a comfort rating. So I’m supposed to wonder what the story is and call every company I’m interested in to find out? Which I have done. R ratings on air mattresses. I’ve seen charts on the internet that are specifically converting R value to temperature for air mattresses give different information from each other. I’m supposed to guess with this too? Give a damn temperature.
Companies that are comfort rates that come to mind are Feathered friends, Katabatic gear, western mountaineering, Hammock gear, gryphon gear, UGQ, and cumulus.
@@kylemckinney_22 thanks I know. Had to call some of them
Do they not list all ratings when they advertise in the US? We even get a tab on the sleeping bag itself showing the upper limit/comfort/lower limit/extreme ratings here in Europe 😅
@@Ellie-rx3jt yes some cover all on the bag, not necessarily on the site. Do all sites n Europe give such information? R value on pads means nothing when charts give different temps.
@@Ellie-rx3jt I bought a Montbell sleeping bag from Japan (I live in Thailand) and it has a comfort and extreme rating. I thought it was now an international standard enforced by a single organization (at least for down).
My dad is an AT thru hiker from way back and when he took me on the long trail we used a stove that was just a soda can with some holes poked in it. Super ultra light, effective and cost a dollar
The issue with anything made from DCF is that there's a single source for it, and that company was purchased for just shy of 1.5 billion last year. We should expect prices to continue going up for any gear companies that didn't have an airtight pricing agreement in place prior to the acquisition.
interesting...
Someone got smart and took advantage of the infinite wealth the backpacking community at large will throw around for the latest lightweight baloney.
that is complete bullshit. there are MULTIPLE companies that are making cuben fiber or as you hipsters call it "dcf"..... stop being lazy. if you look around, you can purchase it from different places. the key is to look into competition sailing equipment suppliers. dont ever buy it from anybody that has to do with hiking and outdoors.
Amen. It’s a scam they haven’t developed an automated way to make DCF so it’s cheaper. The huge cost mainly comes from the manual laminating processes.
At least we have Ultra brand fabrics now for packs, too, which are competitive with DCF. Maybe competition will help drive down prices.
the patent runs out tho right? like in 2024 or smth, and then it should all get cheaper
(it won't but it should)
Pricing.
Sometimes justified but often a factor of 'what the market is prepared to tolerate'.
'Ultralight'.
Often a trap that encourages people to buy and carry more gear 'because it is so light'. 30kg of ultralight gear still weighs 30kg.
The biggest and dangerous.....is goretex...let me down over 20 years.... multiple jackets many different fabrics all s..t!?
What a waste and life threatening...too 😔
RE..Cost.. Depending on what you're doing how much do top of the line car camping setups cost? motor homes ? camper trailers? overseas motel holidays with air fares bikepacking , yachting maybe. I have a bunch of Zpacks gear and others and I think it's cheap compared to other types of holiday adventures. I go hiking with ferrari type gear and love it.
I quit buying most gear years ago, got tired of wasting money trying to find what works for my type of hiking so now I just make my gear. But that required learning a whole skill set! 😀 Also most people are on trails while I'm exploring the deep, dark woods... they don't sell a lot of gear for that.
What do you do tent wise?
@@Lomogrammaton I don't use tents, I pack a tarp I specially made for shelter if I need it.
Me too. Got to make stuff that can be dragged through endless scrub and wind fall
I can attest if you're looking for a quality backpack, I purchased a medium sized "EAGLE CREEK" backpack over 10 yrs ago and it's in as pristine condition today as the day I bought it.
I not only use it when I'm hiking but I stuff my heaviest groceries in it every week when I shop and it's never shown any wear. Not a failing zipper or tear & most importantly the straps at the shoulders (which hold all the weight) have never suffered from any wear or tears. It's the most remarkably durable backpack I've ever purchased. (Not pricey either)!💓🎒💓Safe & happy trails...🚶♀🚶♂🏕🌳🌲🌳🐿🌲🦝🌳🦔🌳
Not cool to dis on someone’s gear! If it’s not a safety concern if you don’t have something nice to say don’t say anything.
Biggest scam in camping is telling people they need a tent, especially when a 10x12 tarp costs less than $50 and u can use it for more than just making an aframe.
Come hike the Florida Trail and tell me how that works out for ya! LOL Our state bird will devour you in no time.
40L Jansport pack. Used. $2.50 at 2nd hand store. Used it the whole way in '99 for the PCT. STILL using it. It weighs 26 ozs.
The biggest scam is not having a camp chair review from Kyle!😀 Yep, the polycro ground sheets a waste.
Emma Gatewood grandmother of 23 hiked the Appalachian Trail with nothing but a knapsack and a pair of Keds. UL is ok but not necessary at all.
I would never use a Jansport and flip-flops... I was carrying everything in a cardboard box and shoeless when I hiked from Idaho down to Utah
It has to be sleeping bag temperature ratings especially since a lot of bags have the survival temp in the name. Nobody cares about the temperature they will survive with only frostbite at. Give the temp most people will be comfortable at and not have to search to find it.
A scam I was told when I started out back packing was to go to stores to buy the things I needed. Luckily I've been in the marines and the MPs and know how to make do with what I have/can afford. Second hand markets are a great resource for cheap gear and if you have your hands/head screwed on right you can probably fix some broken items for cheap.
I was a Marine 0321 long ago, lol it did make for some uncomfortable hiking experiences!
Don’t go looking at Hilliberg tents lol.
@@boathemian7694 It sure as hell did. I was in the marines in Denmark but I assume you we're in the USMC. It wasn't always the most fun experience but whenever you got back to base it was a hoot to chat about the days that had gone by, shitty or not 😄.
@@antoniom.andersen6704 Hahaha yep. I’ve been in Denmark a few times, it was a lot of fun.
Nah man, it's like all a scam. I hiked PCT with only my warm thoughts, shower shoes and a bag of weed as my companions. Peace brother.
You are very good at what you do . Only a matter of time before your page blows up. Keep bringing brother .
Biggest scam is that retro backpacking gear isn't ever available so we could backpack like it is 1900.
The biggest scam is waterproof/breathable rain gear. Period.
I think what Phil was talking about or at least how I feel is you can't get a good review from a product if you know the person is being incentivized by that product company. I have been in the fitness industry for years and I stopped counting the amount of times that guys were pushing a supplement and talking like it was the best thing since sliced bread only to go to another company and do the same thing about their competing product.
The biggest scam is trusting an influencers opinion over people who actually use the gear.
Dyneema is expensive material. As someone that just got into making their own gear dyneema is not cheap, even for the big brands, plus labor, etc. I get why zpacks are expensive. I'd never buy one but I get it. I'm sure their profit margins are dumb, but I can see why a tent costs 600 doll hairs.
Currently in the same process lol. You do any side work I have a tent blueprint in mind
Came here to say this, plus they were an early adopter of Dyneema.
For the rest of the reviewer: Yes, the old school DIYers gram counters have been scavenging it for decades, when you couldn’t buy Dyneema by the yard. Zpacks was NOT using it 1st, just because you saw it on RUclips 😂. Packs are used for many things, not just hiking. Climbing and skiing packs have to be bomber, and HMG packs are bomber, overkill for the once a month wannabe hiker.
If you're ultralight enough the ranger will think its a day pack.
I'm a bicycle tourist on the road half of every year so gear interests overlap with hiker gear. I get so tired of people on my social media who have never lived on the road telling me what gear I should use. Like Suzy, I am also on a budget too. It's easy to know what somebody else should do from behind a phone screen inside their house🤣
I am carrying a small bear canister (BV 350/400) on the AT for my thruhike this year. I am aware that I might not be able to pack all my food in the canister for a given stretch between resupply points, so I am prepared to hang the most disposable food (if there's such a thing) and store the rest in the canister. I will be carrying the canister inside of my ULA CDT on top of the DCF liner.
Your mention of carrying your food in your pack with the empty canister brought this to mind.
Thanks! 👍
All you need is legs and determination
Hello from Ireland
I made my own groundcloths. I use them to keep from having to scrape mud off my tent. Easier to handle the groundcloth. Offers a bit of abrasion/puncture resistance.
I'm okay with youtubers trying to sell me stuff as long as their whole catalogue isn't 90% gear talk with repetitive titles such as "5 pieces of gear every beginner needs"
You say that... But you probably don't click on videos unless they have that catchy title 🤔
Alot of people cry about the price of hiking gear but waste money on other stuff like alcohol, cars, fashionable clothes etc etc. If hiking is your number 1 passion and you spend a good amount of time in the outdoors, dropping a few grand on your gear is peanuts. Like make a few sacrifices, pack your lunch, cook at home, skip Starbucks. Like maybe you just have far too many other hobbies?
I think people misinterpret "scam" to mean "things I don't like about hiking" on half these things.
One Scam I see is some very light Run packing gear in the 25--28L, maybe 29--30 L range trying to be pushed as working for UL overnight when 90% of the brands packs do not have a bracing system or stiffener pad in them at all or ability to use one so they will only work for runners who are continually moving on a very long trail and do not need a tent, sleeping bag or other heavier gear you want for standard UL packing like the super light stove/lighter wood stove. Even overnight stops on run packing these packs will not work as they then start to get sloppy with the heavier pieces of gear in them. The run packer wanting to do an overnight camp would need to get some of the overnight UL packs in the same 25--30L that are made, for a lightweight tent and sleeping bag.
I bought a backpack that wasn't seam sealed and it was a pain to do it myself. Never again will I buy a hiking product that isn't seam sealed. Definitely a scam if a company isn't seam sealing their products.
ground cloths sold separate are not a scam. I don’t use a ground cloth, on the rare times I have I use tyvek or a contractor bag cut to size. I don’t want to pay an extra $20-$30 for a ground cloth.
also I would happily pay $30 - $50 less for a tent and then buy a $4 tube and seam seal it myself. Im not complaining about doing my own seam sealing as long as the savings is being passed along to me. When I get a new tent I want to set it up anyway and do some mods so might as well seam seal it too
I got a Granite Gear 50L pack that is at the 2 lb mark(32 oz) at a third of the cost. Honestly it is a good pack. To those that say it's not waterproof. All I do is add a pack liner at only a few grams weight penalty.
Companies like ZPacks only post 5 star reviews. Bad reviews which can be pretty accurate, are ignored. Like the bearcan strap. I tried it before my JMT, and the bearcan fell out right away. I ended up putting it vertical inside my backpack which worked out perfectly. I had my jacket underneath to protect the integrity of the backpack though. Some light damage was unavoidable but it was so much better than carrying it outside.
Kyle, just recently found your channel and I love it. I enjoy the vlog style content. I enjoy the authenticity and your personality coming through in yhe videos. I'm an avid backpacker and outdoor recreationalist in my 20s. I strongly identify with your media and I hope you continue to produce.
$600 for a single person tent, NO… get fucked! Signed all of us.
The biggest scam in backpacking isn't gear, it's gear pricing. High end brand markups are in the hundreds of percent and that's just crazy. That isn't to say you're only paying for a name, though. The gear is absolutely better. A Naturehike tent is a good tent, but it is *not* a Marmot or a Big Agnes tent, never mind a Z-packs or Durston. A Decathlon backpack is a good backpack, but it is *not* a Gregory or an Osprey. Fortunately, Naturehike tents and Decathlon backpacks are good enough for 90% of people who buy tents and backpacks, so they don't need to spend $400 on something that only cost $20 to produce.
$500 Gore-Tex jackets. Basically, none of the breathable fabrics keep you dry when you're hiking hard in temperate weather. In recent years I've been using $30 jackets from high-street outdoor chains and they've performed just as well. If you shop around you can find examples that are well designed and cut and use decent fabrics, at well under 1/10th the price of the fancy brands.
I sew for a living. I made for myself a 12’ dia. 3/5 geodesic dodecahedron tent. The footprint fits inside of a 10’x10’ square. It wasn’t cheap to make and took 24 hours to sew. Weights 17lbs. I charge $60/hr labor. That’s $720 right there. Granted I’m not 12 living under my sewing machine at night. Learn to sew. Then judge. Also, sewing ultra light fabric requires a learning curve and a quality sewing machine.
For me the biggest scam is the ultralight concept.
Why compromise your survival by packing half a razor blade instead of the whole knife? Might as well leave it at home and flint nap yourself a knife.
Why cut the handle off your toothbrush? Might as well just leave it at home and use your finger with some toothpaste or feather a birch twig with your flint napped knife you made.
I get wanting to get your pack weight down as much as possible but why sacrifice functionality to save a few grams? A pack 15lbs or less is what I personally carry for a DAY HIKE. My backpacking pack is typically between 25-30lbs give or take a couple pounds. Yes I want to drop a few more pounds but without sacrificing functionality or comfort. My goal is to get as close to 20llbs as possible.
You have to understand, a long time ago we were "ultralighting" and many guys didn't want the added 1oz of seam sealing. It adds an ounce or more of weight to most tents. Tarptent didn't even offer seam sealing option originally.
I have slept in old school tarptents (before they even offered seam sealing), and they barely dripped anything and it was usually in one or two spots. I woke up dry but yes the floor was wet. The bag/quilt/pad did a lot to stop small drips from a leaking seam.
Hyperlite: overpriced = yes, ultralight = no, comfiest pack I’ve ever had = yes.
Part of the premium associated with ZPacks tents, etc. is that fact of their manufacture in the United States. Personally, I'm willing to pay that premium to assure my gear isn't made in sweatshop conditions and to keep resources in local communities. Admittedly, I have the resources to make that possible, and I recognize not everyone can afford that level of financial expenditure.
I think the biggest scam is the sites that tell you which gear you really need and why you need it instead of just talking about the gear. I am not talking about then suggesting a tent or trekking poles, but the ones that say you need this kind of tent and this kind of trekking poles only to find out it leads back to the site shop itself.
I’ve always wanted a zpacks tent, guess I’ll just stop eating to afford one 😍😍😍 why have I not thought of this, thanks Kyle
Helena, you don't need to stop eating. You can start foraging😜
Just think of the weight savings you'll get!
Replying to Mathias's comment in the video: Zpacks products are made in the USA, rather than being manufactured outside of the country. This allows us to offer job opportunities to the people in our community and do our part in strengthening the economy. We also use only the best ultralight materials available.
Calling me out on scamming myself. I’ve now purchased three rain coats. $70, a thrifted one for $15, another one for $86. Coulda just bought a goretex one by now 🤦🏾♀️
People need to think about the gear we had back in the ‘70s - twice as heavy and half as functional - yet we got along just fine; stop trying to be perfect and just enjoy your trip!
I agree hyperlite is really overpriced. Their packs are some of the simplest on the market (cheapest to manufacture) and they are made in Mexico and they are using DCF which is inherently much less durable than Ultra, yet they are extremely pricy.
Madness, I got my Osprey exos 48L down to the same weight!
I’d you’re going to spend money on a light weight pack you should just order from superior wilderness designs… super solid packs .. and you can customize them … only setback is they make them all by hand to your specifications so it usually takes about 8 to 14 weeks to get you’re pack… but for it’s totally worth it and they are no longer usiyDCF they have moved to ultra.. but I think if you wanted a pack made from dcf they would
Probably do it
Usually never comment on RUclips but I have to give you props Kyle for finally finding a way to pull viewers in with your "Hiking's Most Wanted" lineup of stories....genius idea. I've been watching your channel for several years and couldn't believe you never got to 40k with your incredible PCT journey last year. Anyway, thumbs up for doubling your subscribers without subjecting us to the T&A trick😁.
Hike the AT in 21"> Loved my Hyperlite Pack! With that said I did buy 3 Hyperlite pods to keep my self organized, those were $60 each which I thought was CRAZY expensive! Looked at the tents but they were are ARE outrageously expensive> Went with a Big Agnes FlyCreek HV UL2 which I absolutely loved! Keep Kicking Tail with the Channel and SUBS Kids!
The real differences between expensive and inexpensive gear, is generally weight. Followed by fit and finish.
the concept of "overpriced" items is not the best viewpoint. If people buy it, so be it. Market takes care of the prices.
I like Ray Jardine's point regarding buying "name brand" gear.... He doesn't buy name brand gear... he would rather make his own. Now this is coming from an old grumpy hiker that has never been able to afford a $600 1 person tent. In 2000, I rewalked Colin Fletcher's 1000 Mile Summer ( Mexico to Oregon along the east side of California, NOT THE PCT) and used gear that was a good/great value.
Yes... I acquired a Dana pack, but my bivy was a $40 SLUMBERJACK (if I recall correctly) NOT the $200 name brand. It worked just fine with a little fine-tuning. I did spend some money on my sleeping gear though as I found I can be a Grumpy Hiker when I don't get a good night sleep... but the rest of my gear was very affordable (CHEAP). My thinking has always been, my body will adapt to the weight I carry IF I slowly strengthen up for my hikes.
I find myself laughing when I see some hiking clown worrying about "Ounces/grams" when they are 40 pounds overweight!!! Ease into your hike, don't do a marathon approach. Start slow and if you are a little heavy (either in gear or in gut) take short days and rest in the beginning and you usually will pickup the miles as you get into a good groove.
I lollygagged the whole way.... never made it a race. Some days were 20+ milers and other days I sat and cried all day (wife decided the boyfriend was more important) seriously though... the trail dictates the mileage each day. When I came off the WEST side of White Mountain east of Bishop, standing along the ridge at 12,000' thinking, well, the valley floor is at about 4,000 ft so that leaves about 8,000 all down hill!!!! Gee how long can THAT take.... a day at the most??? WRONG I walked out to Chalvant Valley Burger stand about 2-3/4 days later and it was the FREAKING WORSE 3 DAYS OF THE 6 MONTH HIKE!!!! Fletcher didn't care for it either and suggested never to do it...
Being an old school hiker, and carrying a LOT of water (Death Valley/Saline Valley) and food/gear resupplies being 2-3 weeks apart, my pack weight many times was bumping a ridiculous 80 pounds. The PCT is more like hiking at Disneyland compared to stomping through Death Valley and onto the Inyo/Whites with no one around for weeks.
I did get used to the weight.... when I was in Bridgeport I guessed my pack weight at 50-55 lbs.... NOPE it was 81 or 83 (its been 23 years ago). And like I said your body can/will adjust..... to the adventure IF you just start slow and steady. When I started The WALK in 2000, I hadn't hiked in almost 2 years, and NEVER did anymore than a 5-10 miler. I went from Washington State balmy winter of 40 degrees to Mexico at mid-high 90's. Darkish days to NEW YORK BRIGHT days. High moisture to VERY little in the 3 day drive down. Talk about a complete shock to one's body!!! YIKES!!!!!!!
So back to expensive gear.... NOPE, not needed. It would be better to buy used gear that is made very well, then to buy cheap, but whatever you buy, make sure it will do the job!!! Again, the "Cheapy" Slumberjack brand lasted the whole way and then 2 more seasons afterwards.
One last thing that is VERY important.... I take excellent care of my gear. I have friends who treat their gear like gorillas in heat. They can trash the toughest of gear in seconds. I've sat and laughed my butt off watching Ernie, the Idiot, accidentally catch his stove on fire (over pressured) and then in his panic burn a good size hole in his $350 tent and $250 sleeping bag. Also, I've watched MANY times sparks from a campfire settle on the best of tent flys. That goes for expensive fishing poles as well I might add....
So... like Kyle said... buy gear that can keep you SAFE.... and.... if you are like Ernie the Idiot.... stay home and take up bowling!!!
I own a HMG UltaMid 2 and it has NEVER FAILED ME. I’ve hiked over a thousand miles on the Appalachian Trail and I have never been wet inside. I will say hikers who own other Dyneema tents (including ZPacks) had to abandon their tents and go into shelters after a rain storm and I have always been 100% dry. HMG tents are worth their weight in gold and would be happy to spend the money to purchase another one. Without hesitation.
That part of about people abandoning their Zpacks tent during a rain storm seams a bit much. I own some Zapcks tents and I have never had any issues. They are DCF just like your tent they just don’t leak. I have never met a person that their DCF tent leaked.
I have an altaplex and have had side ways rain come in my tent and if there were high winds and lower temps I would understand if a shelter was close and the wind is knocking rain through the mesh that not staying in a paper bag might be a quieter night.
I am personally all about tarp tent .. I have a stratosphere LI…
And that thin is solid it handles wind really well and has never failed me … it can be a
Little tough to put up in high winds but all trekking pole tents can be … to me
It’s worth to money for
Certain pieces of gear … I know once my tent is up and my quilt is dry I am good to go no matter what the weather is …that being said if I. spend the money on on a something from a cottage company they better stand behind it … that’s where I draw the line and for the most part I have had very little problems with the gear I have bought and it I did most companies have repaired or sent out. A replacement products…
Biggest scam is the backpacking trend. Like any trend it fosters competitiveness and it has sucked the fun and purpose out of backpacking and being outdoors over the past 15 years. I'm not talking about UL gear alone. It's anything that has fostered a "look at me" moment and that can be most things talked about on this and every other outdoor YT channel since YT began.
Yo, thanks for using my scam! 😂 - hikesoup
thanks for providing the answer! made for some good content
I do a lot of multi day trips, and I refuse to go lightweight on my backpack and my shelter. All though my three person tent that weighs less than three pounds might be considered lightweight !
Never had anyone criticize your gear? Must be carrying all the "right" stuff. All Ultralight gear prices are out of control and can make the average hiker not want to go - either too heavy or too costly. Have carried a 10 - 12 kg outfit (minus water) comfortably throughout southern hiking for a long time. still hiking at 72.
I wonder if you bumped into the PCT Thru Hiker in the desert that was hiking with a pink JanSport book bag. He was putting in some of those long night hikes in the desert with Quadzilla.
Yes I did! I was actually with him the day he picked up his Jansport lol. His name was pyro, badass hiker, one of the few who could actually hike successfully with a Jansport lol
I paid $120 for a new (never used) LiteFighter 2 person tent worth $535 and bought the additional stuff sack for $85 to attach to my pack. It incudes a full bug net, rain fly, patch kit, stakes, and poles.
How about RUclipsr's saying they bought the product but behind the scenes are being paid by the company?
This is messed up, and also illegal.
Some gear can be acquired through gear swaps with your local community hiking clubs or university groups. You're going to need to check it all out thoroughly but you will save a ton of money this way. Have fun out there !
I completely agree about the seam sealing scam...MSR ahmmmm.
I see people complaining about price when it comes to a lot of products for backpacking as well as overlanding equipment/off road RVs. However, people have to realize they usually fall into a specialty category. Meaning, Small quantities, often hand-built and made out a more expensive materials. You just can’t fairly expect the same prices for these type of products to mass produced, machine built, assembly line items, often made over seas.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The best rucksacks in history were made by Alpine Designs of Colorado. They had an indestructible shoulder strap attachment with clevis pins connecting pack, internal stays, and strap. When my first one finally wore out after 40 years of hard use, I scoured the internet and found a replacement by merging two used packs. Backpacks with sewn shoulder attachments are junk that fails as are backpacks with zippers. The best full-sized internal-frame backpacks were made by Gregory. I got an early garbage can-style Gregory pack when the company was still owned by a man named Gregory. The design has never been surpassed. The backpack market is like the safety razor market: full of trendy "innovations" that are only innovative ways to make money off the trend-driven unwary.
I carried a bv500 inside of my nashville cutaway with no problem this summer. People just need to refine their packing.
“So those bears with their massive t*ts couldn’t get it” 😂😂😂
The double coated silicone tents have to be seam sealed by hand, there is no other way to sea seal them, so you either do it yourself or pay the company to do it.
6:58 I did a lot of research on various tents for two people before I bought my Tarptent. I went ahead and sealed the seams myself, it took me about an hour seal the seams for like $5 worth of materials. I was really happy with my Tarptent. When I get back into backpacking I’m completely open to buying another Tarptent.
If I want comfort, safety and a good night's sleep, I can carry 5 kg. more (what's the point of hiking if you can't sleep well and feel more tired the next day) Super light tents it's a circus in the forest 😀 Good luck in cold, windy and buggy conditions and have a cool hike 🏕️
Same!
When I first started backpacking I bought cheap everything, you need so much gear when starting out and I didn’t know how I would like it. I was also getting gear for my kid too, so we just had to be cheap. Much of the gear I did replace throughout the years, one piece at a time. However, I bought a 30$ whisper light MSR stove and am still using it 15 years later. Some of the cheap stuff is actually really good and there is no need to spend extra money on a label or brand name. I have also bought expensive brand names that have failed on the first use (North Face, Columbia, Cotopaxi, I am looking at you.)
20 years ago thru hikers used MSR whisper light liquid fuel, heavy water filters. The tents were 4 pounds.
I hiked with 40 to 45 pounds and you know we all made it .
Yes, we did. My first tent was oiled canvas. Talk about dragging a chain carrying those heavy weights. I have a HMG tent now which is an absolute dream in comparison. And so easy to carry....
biggest scam is saying that a quilt is totally different than an unzipped sleeping bag.
At 62, I finally replaced all the crappy gear I used for decades. This gear will last the rest of my life and be handed down to my kids.
This is a reverse hiking scam. Men’s dress socks are extremely expensive and the exact same weight as what I think of as a liner sock. Light hiking socks are much less expensive and made of better materials and are definitely more durable.
The whole ultralight industry is a scam. Flimsy, super expensive gear that wouldn't even last a year.
‘Ultralight’ gear is expensive, because the marketing has turned it into a buzzword that demands a premium. Companies are getting away with charging more for less. Nylon and Aluminum have been used as tent materials since the 70’s but now it’s considered a premium fabric, lol. And the less denier, the more expensive it is.
SilPoly is a perfect example. Previously it was believed to be an inferior tent material and cost less. Now it’s considered as a premium option over nylon…shitbrained.
These companies just be selling ya’ll on the flavor of the week and convincing you it cost more than it did last week.