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Thank you! Though I am not the first to make that point. In fact, when I wrote that line I was 80% certain that I was paraphrasing someone, but I could not for the life of me find the quotation online. So someone please let me know if they find out if someone else used a similar turn of phrase
"......Does not just corrupt the people around the narcissist but eventually comes back to destroy the narcissist themselves". I witnessed this with my oldest brother who was one of the most horrible human beings I ever knew and was destructive to everyone who loved him or tried to love him. He was definitely a narcissist and did much damage to me, 10 years his junior, growing up and as an adult. He committed suicide in Jan 2001 just past his 55th B-Day.
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 I've been fine about it, thanks for asking. It took awhile but I forgave him and therefore freed myself. He was smart, very handsome, tall, had gorgeous hair, was a babe magnet, and lived on easy street in whatever job he had. I think really attractive people have it much easier in life versus us regular types. He had it all...except his soul. His wickedness turned him into a self-consuming monster, just like Dorian Grey.
@@jeffsmith8197 that's an incorrect statement, while there are upsides to being attractive and downside to being unattractive, a person has many many traits. Intelligence, virtue, physicality, charisma, financial, and all the many possible diseases. a smart person has advantages a dull person doesn't, but the dull person has high resolve. To try to reduce the difficulty of life by a single trait is incorrect
@@user-jx1th8jz6y so would be using terms such as good, evil or wickedness I'd assume... It is very hard to know one's true self without looking through biases. I like to think studies and new conclusions are better than doubt as they are, after all, beacons in the dark, but maybe change has more relevance, hence the resolution to constantly grow as an individual right?
He tried to eliminate the proof of his wickedness, the portrait, to get "peace" and by stabbing the portrait stabbed himself, only remained an unrecognizable carcass, and a portrait of Dorian in all his glory! Or at least that is how I remember the book after many, many years. He was irredeemable to the end, and I believe that is the intention of the author. Cheers
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 *most highly cognitively (clearly not emotionally) intelligent, charming yet coercively rapey chauvinistic or warmongering greedy lusty male narcissists truly & delusionally think + fully believe they're the good guys fighting the bad ones when they're brothers in arms with their deeply ingrained crafty pathological lies + covert malignant more cerebral psychopathically sadistic narcissism masquerading as wonderfully shining yet soulfully dead & sadly glamourized utterly fake enlightenment of older arrogant powerful men...*
A bit embarrassed to admit that it makes more sense now this is my favorite book. When a young innocent Dorian turns around with his golden curls, his facial expression and the liliac tree, forever imprinted in my memory.
This is a very interesting analysis. I was very interested with Dorian's relationship with Lord Henry. As narcissistic as Dorian is, he seemed so obsessed in impressing Lord Henry and adopting a lifestyle that lived up to Henry's ideals., never realizing that Lord Henry was a windbag.
It’s often said psychopaths are offended when they get called psychopaths, suggesting they do have a conscience, it’s just repressed. Your description of Dorian Gray seems more realistic than the image of a person who simply lacks all emotion
That doesn't inherently suggest a conscience. the word 'psychopath' has negative connotations of being self-centered/violent/etc. they can simply just be insulted at the insinuations of the term rather than feeling guilty for their lack of concern for other people.
It's Narcissism that's suppressed. Psycopaths simultaneously don't have one (shallow emotions and no empathy is what a lack of conscious probably refers to) but they certainly can be pro social for their entire lives and have a very in depth theory of mind. For mimicry purposes, but this is all they have... Like being wheelchair bound from birth in an emotions and empathy way. This means you being like this is perceived as persecutory, and they literally don't understand why... It's very anger inducing to be told you are inherently bad for nothing you can control especially when you receive a lot of rejection, punishment and seemingly endless strife in all aspects of life due to people not attempting to understand you once the charisma wears off in others idealistic image of you 😔
Some truly excellent insights here. While I‘ve never read the novel, I‘ve known people like Gray. Their careers and relationships haven‘t been as dramatic as his, but they‘ve been just as troubling…
Thank you so much for these videos, for a while I felt like a shell of a person, but slowly I’ve started building myself back up and your videos reignite my interest in philosophy and make me feel happy. Please don’t stop making these if you can help it:)
11:56 "...if you thought only of yourself for ten hours a day you would become a fantastic narcissist." This right here blew my mind. I feel like I'm a vulnerable narcissist always, needing affirmation because I'm constantly thinking about how much I suck.
This is a wonderful analysis of the themes that are central to the novel, and you make it relevant to students who may not be inspired to read. I appreciate your enthusiasm and your development of the theme throughout your talk.
Great analysis! I just finished this book. It was so sad in many ways (Basil did NOT deserve his fate), but I loved it. Dorian really is the perfect embodiment of a narcissist, but I wonder if he wasn’t manipulated into his actions from Henry? Of course he made his own path, but given that everyone has narcissistic traits within them, perhaps full blown narcissism is bred via your environment and outside influences. Henry essentially scared him into thinking his beauty and youth was the only thing he had to offer the world. With that, I went from feeling sad for Dorian (I think we’ve all had that existential crisis of one day getting older and losing our looks), but I quickly started to hate him after how he treated Sybil lol.
Reminds me of sentenced song "guilt and regret" where these to feelings are viewed as enemies within. Thank god I am quite humble myself. Easily the humblest person I know.
Your way of explanation, voice and intonations (not to mention the good looks lol) is really attention-gripping. I found this video by searching about the book, but I'd definitely check out your other videos.
Woah that's a dark book indeed ! Sad to think people like this do exist in this world ( I know this is a metaphorical representation and is exaggerated but still) . On the side note I really enjoyed this video a lot and found it interesting subscribing to you to hope to find more such stories coverage and recommendations !!
@@emmaphilo4049 Well I'm sure there is always someone out there who is worser than we can imagine ( thanks to the news nowadays) but I want to believe that these are just broken people and a exaggeration of reality which takes quite a toll on oneself.
Have you read Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky? There is one paragraph within that book that has gripped my consciousness for years. I would love your opinion on the topic. It is in Chapter 5, it goes roughly like this, there are ordinary men and extraordinary men. Ordinary men are bound to the rule of law and should follow the medians moral code. Extraordinary men are a rarity and have the intellect or the power to make great net positive changes in the world. Raskolnikov (the protagonist of sorts) uses this in part to justify his actions of murder. Now I do believe murder to be wrong, yet I also believe that murder is sometimes needed, the greatest example would be WW2, you could not take Hitler down with words. So this has caused me to do a introspective drive into what is right and wrong because I would argue that the biblical commandment of thou shall not murder is not always true. So there are exceptions for morality that are sometimes needed. The conclusion I have come to is this, what makes an action good or bad is not the action itself, it is the time elapsed, time is the judge of morality. Something that is good or bad in the short term might not be good or bad in the long term. Think of touching a hot stove, it hurts you in the short term but in the long term you hopefully learn the lesson to be more aware of touching hot surfaces. The net is positive. Think of smoking, nicotine in the short term is awesome, increased focus and concentration get all that sexy acetylcholine and dopamine in the short term; but in the long term it causes health risks. An action that can, at least antidotally, be positive in the short term turns into a net negative in the long term. I hope I have elaborated my expansion of Dostoevsky's thoughts well, I believe this is a good location to get some genuine conductive criticism. Please tell me your opinion whoever is reading this.
Morality is closely linked to the ego, for there needs to be a perspective to outweigh the good and bad of a given action. Given that needed perspective the only real question is who's judging? Leave it to a hindu to judge, and every living being is exactly as important as the others, but leave it to a monotheistic person to judge, and it'll only be the people that worships their god. And neither of those are wrong, they're frameworks that are righteous within their own perspective. Altruism only works when we know what's true, whilst solipsism doesn't need any guidelines. I think that's the dillema that's been slowly corrupting society
I’m not as articulate or well read as you. However, it just seems to me that we can’t know at the point of our behaviour what the end result will be over time - will it turn out good or evil? Often it will be both. Furthermore, even the concept of good or bad is subjective and can’t be agreed upon by people.
@@catcat4697I do agree that a diversity in culture is good. The more ways people and few the world the better. Diversity in culture can come up with different solutions to the same problem which I think the human species needs. Could you elaborate on why you think altruism “works only if we know what’s true”? I don’t think I fully understand what you mean.
I (accidentally?) read this book when I was around 10 or 11 years old, and I have not given much thought to it since (30 years) until now. I am so grateful for this video and deep analysis, which I can now understand. Thank you!
I noticed narcisstic mostly have extremely independent / complete anything on his own all alone trait, or super-co-dependent even to a dependent guilt level He would tend to force you into any relationship just to get a really close time with you, and could be 1 day later he acted like completely do not want to get in touch with you, but when he is close to you, he almost begged for friendship/brotherhood/long-knowning company relationship, begging, that what made people hard to leave them But trust me, that is more like super-hyper on drug vs post-drug withdrawal Their brain are fucked, completely fucked, either at super-excited state or at insanely self-petty alone moment, no balance, no in between, put yourself into their shoes that is a terrible mental state for anyone, a uncontrollable high-speed running brain and a dysfunctional bag of garbage, everyday switched between these 2, the most suffering part I would now consider what they did was looking for a thrill, a high, or an excitement, to cover the very-deeply-enormous emptiness inside, the not knowing what other people loneliness, the distance, unconnectable of this own individual while being a narrator witnessing everything without a right/a choice/a will/a freedom to choose out of this fucked brain Not simply only about evil, about a broke down brain, sensitive and easily triggered Long time bitter and hallow
This sounds simply like drug addiction, and that is not just because of the drug metaphors or direct reference. Having highs from both uppers and downers create their own lows. Uppers are classic for the “suicide Monday” as it is sadly colloquially recognized, and downers create a deadness in their own sense, a groggy perseverance when the substance wanes. Many antisocial traits (narcissistic tendencies being one) are due to addiction. Not sure if you’ll see this comment or if anyone else will, but if it happens to be someone you know or even yourself, don’t neglect the idea of substances. Even alcohol can do this to people. Just be mindful
But is dorian responsible when it was lord Henry who corrupted him? I would argue that Dorian is a victim because society treated him a certain way and he responded in kind. Like a child actor almost. When I see child actors develop physiological problems, I think we bear the responsibility for that as a society for putting them in that role
My thoughts are in line with your here. Lord Henry is a bad influence indeed. Dorian Gray was pure like an oasis in the desert according to Basil. The conversation and the capricious friendship have altered Dorian. I admire Basil's sincerity and loyalty. Love this masterpiece wholeheartedly.
Superb insights into the nature of the narcissistic game. It's the ultimate short term strategy but suddenly falls apart often with a fury, given enough time.
True psychopaths do not feel normal human emotions and are narcissists. They are not punished by their consciences only anger at failing to achieve what they want. So they just carry on hurting people until they are stopped.
Maybe, but it is important to remember that people are not born without consciences, but rather become that way by continuously ignoring and silencing their conscience. That silenced conscience develops into anger and, since one might be refusing to listen to one’s own conscience, thus refusing to address the root of the problem, that pent up frustration becomes anger, and is directed towards all the wrong places. No one is born doomed to be a bad person; just as no one is immune from becoming a bad person. I think this “us, normal people” VS “they, the true psychopaths and narcissists, who can’t even feel normal human emotions!” mindset, is one that can lead one to dangerous roads. Even Dorian Gray started out as a fairly decent person, if I recall correctly… Anyhow, please forgive my rant, or if I misunderstood something you said. I wish you a very good day.
@@housemouse4209I like what you had to say and agree with a more moderate, less divisive approach to these conditions. However, you'd be remiss to not acknowledge physical and biological differences that do in fact change the way a person thinks and behaves. Birth defects and tumors to name a few.
Thank you for the insightful analysis. I look forward to reading all the books you've covered in your videos. It has been incredibly enjoyable to hear your insights into these literary works. ❤
This covers a good deal of those who are currently recognized as needing everyone to capitulate to their delusions. If others don't perpetually uphold this delusion, the subject decries it as hate, or even, "genocide." Don't let those narcissistic types persuade you into thinking you are a bad person for not agreeing to the lies they tell themselves.
I have become exactly the horrible Dorian Gray type of narcissist in the past couple of years, and everywhere I go I end up corrupting people in one way or another. It's like I've made a deal with the devil that he makes me believe I'm a superior demi-god while he gets to corrupt people through me. And on one hand I really want to go back to my former self that people actually liked but no-one respected, but on the other hand I still don't want to leave this fantasy bubble that I've created for myself. Because people avoid me like the plague when I'm like this, and I don't want to bring more misery into this world. How do I burst that bubble? I really need advice...
Telling you to "stop" seems like a dumb statement because it's like someone telling you to stop having cancer when you have cancer but in the case of narcissism you are the only anti body that can stop the narcissistic cancer inside of you. You are the one that has to fight against it everyday. If you don't know how, you get a therapist and that therapist will guide you through that fight but you will be the one that is actually fighting that battle.
I feel like a narcissist because I do all the good in my life to avoid my better natures chastising me and making me feel like shit for not doing good. I analyze why I do stuff so much and the only reason I can come up with is that I act the way I act so that I can tell myself that I am not a bad person, or so that other people dont think Im a bad person. That, or I am just treating people how I would want to be treated.
I thought like that as well and realised this year that my parents were the ones who were narcissistic 😅😅 they brainwashed me to think I was the bad person - well, that's what narcissists do
I’m sad to say that this narcissistic behavior at some point ending tragically for a narcissist is just wishful thinking for us normal people. In reality, the bliss, charisma and success of these people continue indefinitely and they do have incredible lives with no regard for the others.
wow that was a fantastic analysis! watched this movie (1945) the other night. it was incredible to stumble upon. and your video just enriches my understanding even more. Cheers!
Oh THIS IS SO GOOD! We just finished reading this book for our Virtual Book Club and we hosted our instagram live last night. Thank you for this insight. -T*
I wouldn't call the novel Dorian Gray particularly philosophical, nor is it entirely fair to put the blame solely on Dorian. Lord Henry's poisonous and whimsical quips about life sow the seeds of evil into Dorian. It's quite improbable that, despite his status and wealth, Dorian is relatively uneducated. Wilde's back-story for Dorian only covers his conception - but nothing really from his formative years. Wilde rehashes an old idea (=making a transaction for eternal life with the devil) and updates it for modern sensibilities. He adds some social commentary, a half-baked love story, endless digressions about jewels, musical instruments, and clothes - evidently showing time well-spent at the Bodleian. Anyhow, I enjoyed the book enough to publish it, but it isn't a tour de force: Wilde is a better playwright than novelist.
Haha! I take your point. It might have been Wilde himself who said that everyone’s first novel is either a re-hash of the story of Jesus or the story of Faust. But nonetheless the novel presents fruitful seeds of philosophical inquiry (in my opinion, anyway)
it is fair to put the blame on dorian. i've met people who have barely seen shit in their lives and turn out to be lying pathetic parasites who would do anything to escape any sense of shame, and on the other hand i have close relationships with people who have endured r*pe and m•lestation and turned out to be more or less angelic.
Ah thank you! That is very kind. And I am only young (23), but have been coaching people in studying and philosophy in some capacity for a long time now (probably coming up to 5 years, though I don't know exact dates)
UR BRITISH YOU DISCUSS PHILOSOPHY AND ARTS I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL THANK YOUR FOR MAKING CONTENT IF NO ONE IN THE WORLD LOVES YOUR VIDEOS, THEN I AM DEAD YOUR VIDEOS FUEL ME
I read a shortened version of this story as a child in school, but I always thought it was unfair how he gets screwed by the painting. I don't get it, he seemed the victim of the story if anything, like he fell to corruption rather than being intrinsically bad. And the ending felt cheap.
Btw: narcissism isn't a psychological term, neither is narcissist. When one uses them, they're obviously not qualified to properly use the psychological terms like narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). And that's totally fine, I'm not qualified and I don't diagnose. I can't! So calling someone a narcissist is totally fine (sure, don't overuse it, though). That's just a casual term. Just please, _please_ don't use it as an insult. The few I'd attribute that to are manipulative, destroy lives for "revenge" (if they can), lie, betray, insult, threaten, ... juuust on the legal side or not provable. Would they always be that way, they might just be emotionally immature. Happens, reason enough to nope out, anyway if you're unwilling or unable to endure it. "Mine" only do that, when no witness is around, a*use just verbally, which is mostly not illegal in my country. They turn 180° in a split second, when a witness joins the scene. They're toxic, they are egotistical, they're energy vampires. Still not ok with that term? Fine. How else to nail it? Seriously.
All this book really depicts is the inner workings of an insecure person, and how they manifest their delusions of eternal life and eternal is the youth without God. It offers no real hope into the eternal world. It’s a hopeless book, but extremely well written it was a magnificent masterpiece. Saying that it offers no hope to people about eternity.
You should not dissolve your Ego Ego can prevent you from being manipulated Though to much Ego can destroy you and the people around you Reality doesn't revolve around you it's everyone's Story 2 people that have a high Ego will have conflict there has to be a balance Nature has a balance and a Rythm Thats wat you should do with your Ego
I have to respectfully disagree with your statement that everyone is a narcissist. True narcissists have no real empathy and a seared conscience. I know. I was married to a covert narc for 25 years. I do see that narcissism is being rewarded and enabled in our society so I would expect to see alot more true narcissists in the future. Our society was different when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s and people were raised differently and held accountable for their actions more often. It's only since that changed that we see real narcissistic personality disorder become more common and socially protected.
@@TheJett1904 You stayed with the narcissist for 25 years. You were attracted to the narcissist. So tell me how it did not benefit the narcissist? You are a contradiction.
@theasuraluis I didn't realize he was a narcissist and as soon as I did, I divorced him. They always start out on their best behavior to ensnare you. You should educate yourself on covert narcissism. They particularly target caring people and they are very convincing liars. He had everyone fooled, not just me. Edit: It certainly did benefit him until it didn't in a big way.
Classically summarised a classic master piece by one of the best scholars & poet of the 19th century, Oscar Wilde. Loved the content & therefore subscribed to your email. Are you on Goodreads? If yes, what’s your Goodreads username?
Is it narcissistic to give unsolicited advice? Does youtube not promote our ego? An ego that seeks to live forever in the form of content??? I'd say narcissist behavior is so part of our modern life that we probably cant escape it in any meaningful way, unless you want to live a strictly aesthetic existence... thoughts?
I feel like this is a novel I would have needed to read in school to truly enjoy; read it alongside a scholar who can tell me why every scene is actually important. To me it seems like a good 30% of it are just Henry repeating his philosophy over and over again to side characters who only appear for one chapter and always just say: "How horrible the things you say are, Lord Henry. Yet I have to say, your charisma intrigues me.". Again and again. There's a 15+ pages side tangent about all the different interests Dorian picked up over the years. Now I do see why that part is important. but did it really need to be this long? Did we really need the longest chapter to be "Here's a two page list of cool rocks Dorian collected. And here is a two page list of pretty cloths. And here is a two page list of stories Dorian has read and listened to."? To me, it just feels like a good story hidden between countless side tangents that lead nowhere. The picture doesn't even appear for approximately the first 30% of the text (or at least its magic).
If you want to work with an experienced study coach teaching maths, philosophy, and study skills then book your session at josephfolleytutoring@gmail.com. Previous clients include students at the University of Cambridge and the LSE.
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what do you charge and do you know business math as well?
Sound like Andrew tate
😂 I Dorian 🤦🏻
"Hedonism is a great philosophy for one evening, but a terrible philosophy for life." Excellent insight good sir, you have gained a subscriber.
Thank you! Though I am not the first to make that point. In fact, when I wrote that line I was 80% certain that I was paraphrasing someone, but I could not for the life of me find the quotation online. So someone please let me know if they find out if someone else used a similar turn of phrase
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 Awesome.
"......Does not just corrupt the people around the narcissist but eventually comes back to destroy the narcissist themselves". I witnessed this with my oldest brother who was one of the most horrible human beings I ever knew and was destructive to everyone who loved him or tried to love him. He was definitely a narcissist and did much damage to me, 10 years his junior, growing up and as an adult. He committed suicide in Jan 2001 just past his 55th B-Day.
That sounds very difficult - I hope you are okay
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 I've been fine about it, thanks for asking. It took awhile but I forgave him and therefore freed myself. He was smart, very handsome, tall, had gorgeous hair, was a babe magnet, and lived on easy street in whatever job he had. I think really attractive people have it much easier in life versus us regular types. He had it all...except his soul. His wickedness turned him into a self-consuming monster, just like Dorian Grey.
@@jeffsmith8197 that's an incorrect statement, while there are upsides to being attractive and downside to being unattractive, a person has many many traits. Intelligence, virtue, physicality, charisma, financial, and all the many possible diseases. a smart person has advantages a dull person doesn't, but the dull person has high resolve. To try to reduce the difficulty of life by a single trait is incorrect
@@user-jx1th8jz6y so would be using terms such as good, evil or wickedness I'd assume... It is very hard to know one's true self without looking through biases. I like to think studies and new conclusions are better than doubt as they are, after all, beacons in the dark, but maybe change has more relevance, hence the resolution to constantly grow as an individual right?
@@user-jx1th8jz6y And just who the F are you to say?? Genuine question. 🙄
"Thank God I'm not like that," says the narcissist within. "I'm humble, kind, and treat others well."
He tried to eliminate the proof of his wickedness, the portrait, to get "peace" and by stabbing the portrait stabbed himself, only remained an unrecognizable carcass, and a portrait of Dorian in all his glory! Or at least that is how I remember the book after many, many years. He was irredeemable to the end, and I believe that is the intention of the author. Cheers
Ah that’s a fair interpretation
@@unsolicitedadvice9198 *most highly cognitively (clearly not emotionally) intelligent, charming yet coercively rapey chauvinistic or warmongering greedy lusty male narcissists truly & delusionally think + fully believe they're the good guys fighting the bad ones when they're brothers in arms with their deeply ingrained crafty pathological lies + covert malignant more cerebral psychopathically sadistic narcissism masquerading as wonderfully shining yet soulfully dead & sadly glamourized utterly fake enlightenment of older arrogant powerful men...*
A bit embarrassed to admit that it makes more sense now this is my favorite book. When a young innocent Dorian turns around with his golden curls, his facial expression and the liliac tree, forever imprinted in my memory.
why are you embarrassed to admitit?
I'm an English Professor currently teaching this novel. Great analysis.
This is a very interesting analysis. I was very interested with Dorian's relationship with Lord Henry. As narcissistic as Dorian is, he seemed so obsessed in impressing Lord Henry and adopting a lifestyle that lived up to Henry's ideals., never realizing that Lord Henry was a windbag.
Honestly, the Lord was getting off playing with Dorian's mind.
It’s often said psychopaths are offended when they get called psychopaths, suggesting they do have a conscience, it’s just repressed. Your description of Dorian Gray seems more realistic than the image of a person who simply lacks all emotion
That doesn't inherently suggest a conscience. the word 'psychopath' has negative connotations of being self-centered/violent/etc. they can simply just be insulted at the insinuations of the term rather than feeling guilty for their lack of concern for other people.
It's Narcissism that's suppressed.
Psycopaths simultaneously don't have one (shallow emotions and no empathy is what a lack of conscious probably refers to) but they certainly can be pro social for their entire lives and have a very in depth theory of mind. For mimicry purposes, but this is all they have... Like being wheelchair bound from birth in an emotions and empathy way.
This means you being like this is perceived as persecutory, and they literally don't understand why... It's very anger inducing to be told you are inherently bad for nothing you can control especially when you receive a lot of rejection, punishment and seemingly endless strife in all aspects of life due to people not attempting to understand you once the charisma wears off in others idealistic image of you 😔
@@DevoidVoid I see, that actually makes a lot more sense. Literally being called a psychopath is the ultimate damage to their mask
My mom was a covert narcissist. She used me as her portrait.
Some truly excellent insights here. While I‘ve never read the novel, I‘ve known people like Gray. Their careers and relationships haven‘t been as dramatic as his, but they‘ve been just as troubling…
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words
This is a great channel!!
Thank you! I am glad you like it
Wow man didn't expect you here
@@further_rush5138Ik right they should do a collab
@@unsolicitedadvice9198How many times did u let him smash for a comment like this?
I’m currently writing an essay on this book, and I absolutely adore this video! The analysis and your thoughts are so great, thank you so much!
Thank you! I’m glad you liked it
I really hope you get the recognition you deserve dude, your videos are not unsolicited advice at all.
Thanks! I’m glad you are enjoying the videos
narcissism is a self-esteem issue. they hate themselves and their behavior is a survival response to that
Yep dorian is a narcissist
Hey mister! You’re excellent at conveying information effectively
Thank you! That is very kind of you to say!
A wonderful encapsulation of not only the story but too the psychology behind it.
Thank you! I think that the narcissism element really pops out of the page
This book really changed the way I think about many things
I do really like it. And I find the writing style very witty
@@unsolicitedadvice9198you should definitely read his other works too, his writing style really intrigues me.
Wow I can't believe you did a full length video on me
Thank you so much for these videos, for a while I felt like a shell of a person, but slowly I’ve started building myself back up and your videos reignite my interest in philosophy and make me feel happy. Please don’t stop making these if you can help it:)
Thank you! And I will definitely keep going with them
I was in the middle of novel and I suddenly hit on this video and spoiled the entire charm . But this is the best illustration of novel. Hatsoff
11:56 "...if you thought only of yourself for ten hours a day you would become a fantastic narcissist." This right here blew my mind. I feel like I'm a vulnerable narcissist always, needing affirmation because I'm constantly thinking about how much I suck.
“Each of us has Heaven and Hell inside him.” - Chapter 13 said By Dorian to Basil
A great line
Reminds me of paradise lost satan quote of making a heaven of hell
This is a wonderful analysis of the themes that are central to the novel, and you make it relevant to students who may not be inspired to read. I appreciate your enthusiasm and your development of the theme throughout your talk.
Great analysis! I just finished this book. It was so sad in many ways (Basil did NOT deserve his fate), but I loved it.
Dorian really is the perfect embodiment of a narcissist, but I wonder if he wasn’t manipulated into his actions from Henry? Of course he made his own path, but given that everyone has narcissistic traits within them, perhaps full blown narcissism is bred via your environment and outside influences.
Henry essentially scared him into thinking his beauty and youth was the only thing he had to offer the world. With that, I went from feeling sad for Dorian (I think we’ve all had that existential crisis of one day getting older and losing our looks), but I quickly started to hate him after how he treated Sybil lol.
Reminds me of sentenced song "guilt and regret" where these to feelings are viewed as enemies within.
Thank god I am quite humble myself. Easily the humblest person I know.
😂
The picture of Dorian gray is probably my favorite novel. Aside from a brave new world.
You make great content, keep up the nice work 💜
Thank you!
There is NO cure for this condition. Remember this before you try to help these people.
Get away from them immediately!
Another brilliant video. Please keep them coming.
I read this book in early highschool. And never forgot it! Still one of my favorites
Same!
Your way of explanation, voice and intonations (not to mention the good looks lol) is really attention-gripping. I found this video by searching about the book, but I'd definitely check out your other videos.
I was hypnotized in the story for this 15 mins❤❤ The best one ❤❤
Dorian tried to play Lucifer. And he succeeded.
this is the best unsolicited advice i could ever not ask for XD
Haha! Thank you!
Woah that's a dark book indeed ! Sad to think people like this do exist in this world ( I know this is a metaphorical representation and is exaggerated but still) . On the side note I really enjoyed this video a lot and found it interesting subscribing to you to hope to find more such stories coverage and recommendations !!
Thank you! And I think some of my favourite characters in literature are exaggerated versions of people we really do see out in the world
I really don't think it's exaggerated though....
@@emmaphilo4049 Well I'm sure there is always someone out there who is worser than we can imagine ( thanks to the news nowadays) but I want to believe that these are just broken people and a exaggeration of reality which takes quite a toll on oneself.
U are the reason why I enjoy DORIAN GRAY SO MUCH
Have you read Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoevsky? There is one paragraph within that book that has gripped my consciousness for years. I would love your opinion on the topic. It is in Chapter 5, it goes roughly like this, there are ordinary men and extraordinary men. Ordinary men are bound to the rule of law and should follow the medians moral code. Extraordinary men are a rarity and have the intellect or the power to make great net positive changes in the world. Raskolnikov (the protagonist of sorts) uses this in part to justify his actions of murder. Now I do believe murder to be wrong, yet I also believe that murder is sometimes needed, the greatest example would be WW2, you could not take Hitler down with words. So this has caused me to do a introspective drive into what is right and wrong because I would argue that the biblical commandment of thou shall not murder is not always true. So there are exceptions for morality that are sometimes needed. The conclusion I have come to is this, what makes an action good or bad is not the action itself, it is the time elapsed, time is the judge of morality. Something that is good or bad in the short term might not be good or bad in the long term. Think of touching a hot stove, it hurts you in the short term but in the long term you hopefully learn the lesson to be more aware of touching hot surfaces. The net is positive. Think of smoking, nicotine in the short term is awesome, increased focus and concentration get all that sexy acetylcholine and dopamine in the short term; but in the long term it causes health risks. An action that can, at least antidotally, be positive in the short term turns into a net negative in the long term. I hope I have elaborated my expansion of Dostoevsky's thoughts well, I believe this is a good location to get some genuine conductive criticism. Please tell me your opinion whoever is reading this.
Morality is closely linked to the ego, for there needs to be a perspective to outweigh the good and bad of a given action. Given that needed perspective the only real question is who's judging? Leave it to a hindu to judge, and every living being is exactly as important as the others, but leave it to a monotheistic person to judge, and it'll only be the people that worships their god. And neither of those are wrong, they're frameworks that are righteous within their own perspective.
Altruism only works when we know what's true, whilst solipsism doesn't need any guidelines. I think that's the dillema that's been slowly corrupting society
I’m not as articulate or well read as you.
However, it just seems to me that we can’t know at the point of our behaviour what the end result will be over time - will it turn out good or evil? Often it will be both.
Furthermore, even the concept of good or bad is subjective and can’t be agreed upon by people.
@@robotone2812exactly everything is technically subjective when you think deeply enough about anything
@@catcat4697I do agree that a diversity in culture is good. The more ways people and few the world the better. Diversity in culture can come up with different solutions to the same problem which I think the human species needs.
Could you elaborate on why you think altruism “works only if we know what’s true”? I don’t think I fully understand what you mean.
Plato's republic. Dan Winters esoteric Kundalini science
I (accidentally?) read this book when I was around 10 or 11 years old, and I have not given much thought to it since (30 years) until now. I am so grateful for this video and deep analysis, which I can now understand. Thank you!
I noticed narcisstic mostly have extremely independent / complete anything on his own all alone trait, or super-co-dependent even to a dependent guilt level
He would tend to force you into any relationship just to get a really close time with you, and could be 1 day later he acted like completely do not want to get in touch with you, but when he is close to you, he almost begged for friendship/brotherhood/long-knowning company relationship, begging, that what made people hard to leave them
But trust me, that is more like super-hyper on drug vs post-drug withdrawal
Their brain are fucked, completely fucked, either at super-excited state or at insanely self-petty alone moment, no balance, no in between, put yourself into their shoes that is a terrible mental state for anyone, a uncontrollable high-speed running brain and a dysfunctional bag of garbage, everyday switched between these 2, the most suffering part
I would now consider what they did was looking for a thrill, a high, or an excitement, to cover the very-deeply-enormous emptiness inside, the not knowing what other people loneliness, the distance, unconnectable of this own individual while being a narrator witnessing everything without a right/a choice/a will/a freedom to choose out of this fucked brain
Not simply only about evil, about a broke down brain, sensitive and easily triggered
Long time bitter and hallow
This sounds simply like drug addiction, and that is not just because of the drug metaphors or direct reference. Having highs from both uppers and downers create their own lows. Uppers are classic for the “suicide Monday” as it is sadly colloquially recognized, and downers create a deadness in their own sense, a groggy perseverance when the substance wanes. Many antisocial traits (narcissistic tendencies being one) are due to addiction. Not sure if you’ll see this comment or if anyone else will, but if it happens to be someone you know or even yourself, don’t neglect the idea of substances. Even alcohol can do this to people. Just be mindful
Soo well explained. Very well done indeed!! Thankyou for it.
Thank you! I am really glad you enjoyed it
Such a terrifying, yet fun and charming book.
It really is
But is dorian responsible when it was lord Henry who corrupted him? I would argue that Dorian is a victim because society treated him a certain way and he responded in kind. Like a child actor almost. When I see child actors develop physiological problems, I think we bear the responsibility for that as a society for putting them in that role
My thoughts are in line with your here. Lord Henry is a bad influence indeed. Dorian Gray was pure like an oasis in the desert according to Basil. The conversation and the capricious friendship have altered Dorian. I admire Basil's sincerity and loyalty. Love this masterpiece wholeheartedly.
Brilliantly written and narrated.
Keep up the amazing work bro
Thank you! I shall do and I am glad you like the videos
Superb insights into the nature of the narcissistic game. It's the ultimate short term strategy but suddenly falls apart often with a fury, given enough time.
True psychopaths do not feel normal human emotions and are narcissists. They are not punished by their consciences only anger at failing to achieve what they want. So they just carry on hurting people until they are stopped.
Maybe, but it is important to remember that people are not born without consciences, but rather become that way by continuously ignoring and silencing their conscience. That silenced conscience develops into anger and, since one might be refusing to listen to one’s own conscience, thus refusing to address the root of the problem, that pent up frustration becomes anger, and is directed towards all the wrong places. No one is born doomed to be a bad person; just as no one is immune from becoming a bad person. I think this “us, normal people” VS “they, the true psychopaths and narcissists, who can’t even feel normal human emotions!” mindset, is one that can lead one to dangerous roads. Even Dorian Gray started out as a fairly decent person, if I recall correctly… Anyhow, please forgive my rant, or if I misunderstood something you said. I wish you a very good day.
@@housemouse4209I like what you had to say and agree with a more moderate, less divisive approach to these conditions. However, you'd be remiss to not acknowledge physical and biological differences that do in fact change the way a person thinks and behaves. Birth defects and tumors to name a few.
I just finished The Picture of Dorian Gray and really enjoyed the story of a narciisist! Really made me think!
Thank you for the insightful analysis. I look forward to reading all the books you've covered in your videos. It has been incredibly enjoyable to hear your insights into these literary works. ❤
Beautiful explanation 🫡🫡🫡
This covers a good deal of those who are currently recognized as needing everyone to capitulate to their delusions. If others don't perpetually uphold this delusion, the subject decries it as hate, or even, "genocide."
Don't let those narcissistic types persuade you into thinking you are a bad person for not agreeing to the lies they tell themselves.
Great video, I would love more analysis of the novel please
I have become exactly the horrible Dorian Gray type of narcissist in the past couple of years, and everywhere I go I end up corrupting people in one way or another. It's like I've made a deal with the devil that he makes me believe I'm a superior demi-god while he gets to corrupt people through me. And on one hand I really want to go back to my former self that people actually liked but no-one respected, but on the other hand I still don't want to leave this fantasy bubble that I've created for myself. Because people avoid me like the plague when I'm like this, and I don't want to bring more misery into this world. How do I burst that bubble? I really need advice...
Stop.👈
Sounds like you need a swift kick in the ass!
Telling you to "stop" seems like a dumb statement because it's like someone telling you to stop having cancer when you have cancer but in the case of narcissism you are the only anti body that can stop the narcissistic cancer inside of you. You are the one that has to fight against it everyday. If you don't know how, you get a therapist and that therapist will guide you through that fight but you will be the one that is actually fighting that battle.
Once a narcissist, always a narcissist. You're lost. Good luck
Don't be taking psychology advice from fools off RUclips. Sounds like you're aware you're a jerk, so self awareness is the first step.
Yes, i really think this is the one of the most underrated novels
I feel like a narcissist because I do all the good in my life to avoid my better natures chastising me and making me feel like shit for not doing good. I analyze why I do stuff so much and the only reason I can come up with is that I act the way I act so that I can tell myself that I am not a bad person, or so that other people dont think Im a bad person. That, or I am just treating people how I would want to be treated.
So not even close to a narcissist then 😂
I thought like that as well and realised this year that my parents were the ones who were narcissistic 😅😅 they brainwashed me to think I was the bad person - well, that's what narcissists do
@@someone-bt5lu Happens way too often, your parents and my mom should hang out lol
wonderfully executed. a sober (but very fascinating, never boring) thought process.
Thanks for your words of wisdom. I'm liking your channel a lot lately.
This is the first video I've watched of yours. Pretty cool.
Thanks! Glad you liked it
these videos became my only company when m taking the bus at 6am to school , thanks a lot for ur efforts :3 !
Ah thank you so much for this comment. This really made my day
Perfectly articulated
Thank you!
I'd like to read just one novel where hedonism works out and narcissism is a success. We've been programmed to feel shame.
This channel is so underated
Now I think I should work on ny narcissist tendencies.
Btw love utmr video ❤🎉
I think there is a narcissist in us all. And glad you liked the video
Not us all 😊.
But most, probably yes.
nah narcassism is a scale
I’m sad to say that this narcissistic behavior at some point ending tragically for a narcissist is just wishful thinking for us normal people. In reality, the bliss, charisma and success of these people continue indefinitely and they do have incredible lives with no regard for the others.
Do they, though? It may appear that way on the outside but meet them in old age - it usually doesn’t end well
wow that was a fantastic analysis! watched this movie (1945) the other night. it was incredible to stumble upon. and your video just enriches my understanding even more. Cheers!
Oh THIS IS SO GOOD! We just finished reading this book for our Virtual Book Club and we hosted our instagram live last night. Thank you for this insight. -T*
I wouldn't call the novel Dorian Gray particularly philosophical, nor is it entirely fair to put the blame solely on Dorian. Lord Henry's poisonous and whimsical quips about life sow the seeds of evil into Dorian. It's quite improbable that, despite his status and wealth, Dorian is relatively uneducated. Wilde's back-story for Dorian only covers his conception - but nothing really from his formative years.
Wilde rehashes an old idea (=making a transaction for eternal life with the devil) and updates it for modern sensibilities. He adds some social commentary, a half-baked love story, endless digressions about jewels, musical instruments, and clothes - evidently showing time well-spent at the Bodleian.
Anyhow, I enjoyed the book enough to publish it, but it isn't a tour de force: Wilde is a better playwright than novelist.
Haha! I take your point. It might have been Wilde himself who said that everyone’s first novel is either a re-hash of the story of Jesus or the story of Faust. But nonetheless the novel presents fruitful seeds of philosophical inquiry (in my opinion, anyway)
Devil's temptation is just a pretext for unleashing our latent self-aggrandisement
it is fair to put the blame on dorian. i've met people who have barely seen shit in their lives and turn out to be lying pathetic parasites who would do anything to escape any sense of shame, and on the other hand i have close relationships with people who have endured r*pe and m•lestation and turned out to be more or less angelic.
Brilliant novel, I love it!!! Good analysis :)
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
I see you were the model for the Dorian illustration.
youre kind of a role model to me, your videos inspire me to become a better version of myself and read more. Thank you very much
can I know your age?
Ah thank you! That is very kind. And I am only young (23), but have been coaching people in studying and philosophy in some capacity for a long time now (probably coming up to 5 years, though I don't know exact dates)
UR BRITISH
YOU DISCUSS PHILOSOPHY AND ARTS
I LOVE YOUR CHANNEL
THANK YOUR FOR MAKING CONTENT
IF NO ONE IN THE WORLD LOVES YOUR VIDEOS, THEN I AM DEAD
YOUR VIDEOS FUEL ME
Really thank you for such perfectness ❤
I read a shortened version of this story as a child in school, but I always thought it was unfair how he gets screwed by the painting. I don't get it, he seemed the victim of the story if anything, like he fell to corruption rather than being intrinsically bad. And the ending felt cheap.
Beautiful analysis ♥
Thank you mate that that was really helpful
Fantastic.
I heard the reference to Narssicus...brilliant.
This was a great video 👏👏👏
very insightful video!
You can only sit, looking at your reflection in the lake for so long before you fall in and drown. Damnnnn
Btw: narcissism isn't a psychological term, neither is narcissist. When one uses them, they're obviously not qualified to properly use the psychological terms like narcissistic personality disorder (NPD).
And that's totally fine, I'm not qualified and I don't diagnose. I can't! So calling someone a narcissist is totally fine (sure, don't overuse it, though). That's just a casual term. Just please, _please_ don't use it as an insult.
The few I'd attribute that to are manipulative, destroy lives for "revenge" (if they can), lie, betray, insult, threaten, ... juuust on the legal side or not provable. Would they always be that way, they might just be emotionally immature. Happens, reason enough to nope out, anyway if you're unwilling or unable to endure it.
"Mine" only do that, when no witness is around, a*use just verbally, which is mostly not illegal in my country. They turn 180° in a split second, when a witness joins the scene. They're toxic, they are egotistical, they're energy vampires.
Still not ok with that term? Fine. How else to nail it? Seriously.
It seems Oscar did not learn he could not resist temptation.
I love The picture of Dorian Gray
Remarkable delivery
Thank you!
These videos are awesome
Awesome channel bro!
Thank you! That is very kind
All this book really depicts is the inner workings of an insecure person, and how they manifest their delusions of eternal life and eternal is the youth without God. It offers no real hope into the eternal world. It’s a hopeless book, but extremely well written it was a magnificent masterpiece. Saying that it offers no hope to people about eternity.
Truth is, deep down, everyone is a narcissist. And those who tell you to dissolve your ego want to make and keep you weak to be controled.
You should not dissolve your Ego
Ego can prevent you from being manipulated
Though to much Ego can destroy you and the people around you Reality doesn't revolve around you it's everyone's Story
2 people that have a high Ego will have conflict there has to be a balance Nature has a balance and a Rythm Thats wat you should do with your Ego
I have to respectfully disagree with your statement that everyone is a narcissist.
True narcissists have no real empathy and a seared conscience.
I know. I was married to a covert narc for 25 years.
I do see that narcissism is being rewarded and enabled in our society so I would expect to see alot more true narcissists in the future.
Our society was different when I was growing up in the 70s and 80s and people were raised differently and held accountable for their actions more often.
It's only since that changed that we see real narcissistic personality disorder become more common and socially protected.
@@TheJett1904 You stayed with the narcissist for 25 years. You were attracted to the narcissist. So tell me how it did not benefit the narcissist? You are a contradiction.
@theasuraluis I didn't realize he was a narcissist and as soon as I did, I divorced him. They always start out on their best behavior to ensnare you.
You should educate yourself on covert narcissism. They particularly target caring people and they are very convincing liars. He had everyone fooled, not just me.
Edit: It certainly did benefit him until it didn't in a big way.
@@TheJett1904 Zero accountability. So it took 25 years to figure it out? You are an absolute clown.
Absolutely brilliant
Classically summarised a classic master piece by one of the best scholars & poet of the 19th century, Oscar Wilde.
Loved the content & therefore subscribed to your email.
Are you on Goodreads?
If yes, what’s your Goodreads username?
Great Video Brother
Thank you!
I have my finals on this book thanks for the good explanation
wow, great video and presentation! very interesting
thank you
Many thanks! Glad you liked it
Can senseca stoic from miles away, new breed.
Is it narcissistic to give unsolicited advice? Does youtube not promote our ego? An ego that seeks to live forever in the form of content??? I'd say narcissist behavior is so part of our modern life that we probably cant escape it in any meaningful way, unless you want to live a strictly aesthetic existence... thoughts?
I think there is something in that. I think that narcissism in a loose sense is always tempting, and try to illustrate that with my final point
I love these videos
Thank you!
I feel like this is a novel I would have needed to read in school to truly enjoy; read it alongside a scholar who can tell me why every scene is actually important.
To me it seems like a good 30% of it are just Henry repeating his philosophy over and over again to side characters who only appear for one chapter and always just say: "How horrible the things you say are, Lord Henry. Yet I have to say, your charisma intrigues me.". Again and again.
There's a 15+ pages side tangent about all the different interests Dorian picked up over the years. Now I do see why that part is important. but did it really need to be this long? Did we really need the longest chapter to be "Here's a two page list of cool rocks Dorian collected. And here is a two page list of pretty cloths. And here is a two page list of stories Dorian has read and listened to."?
To me, it just feels like a good story hidden between countless side tangents that lead nowhere. The picture doesn't even appear for approximately the first 30% of the text (or at least its magic).
It was an interesting video
Excellent video! New subscriber
Thank you!
Well said, handsome British gentleman