When a child says “no” to you in front of the whole class sending them to the safe space( cool down corner) seems like a reward to the rest of the class. I did that one previous year, and children were trying to get to the cool down corner and would try to act in a way to get there. Because they were curious about the area …It sort of backfired.so now I use positive reinforcement for all following and saying thank you to certain children following rules and say “if you would like to sit in the happy-seat ( a special comfy chair)to complete your work at the last period of the day today since you have been completing your work all day so nicely “. definitely focused on the positive turns around a lot of this rogue behavior 😅
I did the same thing with balloons in the restaurant I worked at. Kid screaming and yelling? Literally EVERYONE else got a balloon. For behaving so well.
Opposition Defiance Disorder is about the most difficult thing I've encountered thus far. My favourite, from a student who was 7yo at the time: "I wish you were dead, and I'm not coming to your funeral" (yelled with all the venom a 7yo can muster). Making expectations clear at the start has always been the best preventative measure I've found. No matter what their age...the "first you do this, then you can do that" helps everyone know where we're headed.
Exactly right! It can get so hard, especially with comments like that 😥 its sad to know just much hate and stress can get stored inside a little person ❤️
DO NOT NEGOTIATE! Love the advice of setting a clear expectation, and offering clear choices about next actions and consequences. I think one thing that secondary teachers can find hard about step 2 though, is that effective distraction needs you to know the students and their interests pretty well. With ~140 students in our care (across 5 classes, roll call, and sport) it's hard to get to know them all well. And relying on humour requires a certain rapport, as teenagers don't give up the giggles so easily! So if you haven't already established knowledge of the student and rapport with them, distraction can be a bust.
I absolutely agree that with secondary that time constraint you have is a definite barrier to building a good relationship with a student - its actually the topic of a panel/workshop I've organised! Relationships are vital to education but your time with them is so limited 😥
Talkin' Chalk ooh, what's the workshop for? School, RUclips or other? I wish more secondary schools would adopt middle school practices like having the same teacher for multiple subjects. We're often too siloed in our approach to curriculum.
Its one for my local network with some special guests to lead a panel before the workshop. If you follow me on Twitter I will share pics (Its not for a few weeks)
@@talkinchalk do you have any advice on what one can ask to break the ice, maybe during lunch or recess while on playground duty? I have a angry ODD student and truly rattling my head about getting her to open up about anything, let alone interests.
I would definitely talk to parents and family and friends about interests. Perhaps let them have free time on the computer and have a sticky beak to see if they are googling anything or playing any particular games etc. Ask the librarian for a print out of books they have borrowed in the past. Or even a writing task about favourite things 😉
This was great I have a student who shows autistic behaviors but will be defiant when asked to do something. I am going to try your suggestions in my classroom.
Lots of excellent tips for handling Opposition Defiance Disorder in this video...My best practice for dealing with the defiant student is removing them from the setting..It's easy to walk a student in to the hallway, let them calm down for a couple of minutes and then address the issues...Thank you Bec for another great video! 👍🙂
That's a great strategy. Definitely helps the student recognise those moments of difficulty so they can self-monitor their reactions as they get older 👍
This is the first time I am watching your video. I love the tips given. However, In the country that I work we are not allowed to put a student out for time out .It is sometimes very difficult to continue a class with a defiant student taking away all the instruction time.How can we deal with situation like this?
I think it’s also important to remember that a lot of these kids who are diagnosed with oppositional defiance disorder are actually driven by anxiety and have pathological demand avoidance. Thankfully pda is more recognized these days, especially in the autism community. Defiance caused from anxiety needs to be dealt with completely differently. Ignoring doesn’t help. Bribing or earning a reward doesn’t help. They need proactive supports in place and lots of gentle reassuring of whatever is triggering the anxiety. Doing things together or setting time frames also helps relieve the anxiety too.
Absolutely agree! Ive learned more about PDA in recent years that has really helped me use a more trauma-informed approach to supporting students. Thank you so much for sharing your insights ❤
Thank you Rebecca. Your strategies are exactly what we've been using, so I feel really relieved that we've been on the right track in our school. I love the point you made that after a few weeks, the expectation would be raised to '1st part and 2nd part, then the Lego'. We have probably not been lifting the bar soon enough. Thank you so much! Reall yappreciate your down to earth style. Keep up the great work!
It's difficult when you have several. When one is done, another starts up. We have a school where every class has 5 or 6 kids who come from homes with poverty, neglect, drug use, parents with mental health and behaviour issues, and just general anger and trauma issues. It's great to have these skills, but it's so hard when there are so many needs.
I can relate. The things you've listed is exactly what I have at my school. The best thing we can do for those kids is work together as a whole school to create a safe environment. A place where they know that when they're at school they are safe, fed, warm and cared for. A place that focuses on the positive ❤ this will take time but it can create such a great school culture
@@farmerchick3040 I didn’t mean to suggest it’s always home issues. However, I come from a school that has many, many students with home issues. They have trauma from poverty, neglect, violence in the home, drug and alcohol abuse, unstable housing, and being in the child welfare system. I know my students very well. For them, it’s due to their circumstances. It’s not a matter of blame or unfair comparison, but an acknowledgment of their trauma and honouring of their needs.
Excellent tips thank you. I like your analogy about the magnets magnets. I have a chart that says first, next and then reward time. Similar to your suggestion. That was a great video.
Thanks for watching ❤️ I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it. The first, next, reward charts are consistently effective for students with lots of different needs. I love using them 😁
I have had a situation with a 10 year old that haunts me to this day because I did everything that I thought would help and it made it worse. The more ignored him the more the tantrum grew, he even started spraying me with a water gun. I was babysitting therefore could not leave the house, I had to suck it up.. but I snapped...
Had a student in class with disruptive behavior, this all started when the teacher did the paper review in a secondary class.He was not happy with the marks he got and had an argument with the teacher, throwing tantrum when he was warned that he will be taken to the admin for this behavior was unacceptable.He was ready and acting like a hero while going downstairs ,he then said sorry and teacher accepted it. But the situation became bad to worst the entire class ganged up against the teacher ,was never an easy task for the teacher to conduct the lesson as per planning .The entire class is in sync with this negativity and gave bad feedback against the teacher in teachers report. Any recommendation, for I have to council both the parties, what should the teacher do? How can the student be tamed?
This was really very helpful for me. However, what do I do when my student is having a melt down (kicking books and desks, crying, yelling, throwing themselve on the floor)? The student always refuses to leave or find a quiet space because they see it as a punishment. Also this is an ESL course, so the young one doesn't have the English capability to understand (even in the native language it's a struggle). During PTA meetings the student's parents said they are much too busy to deal with it. On top of things, the S comes to class everyday with a family sized bag of cookies for just them. We've discussed with the parents about that already, but nothing changes and when we try to talk to the S about it, the S just says "they're mine, I can do what I want with them, my mom/dad gave me these."
Oh wow it sounds like this kid doesn't have the structure he needs at home. That makes it difficult at school, especially if he is older. Considering this is a language class have you considered using visuals/photos to help reinforce instructions for this student? I would recommend looking closely at the root cause of the behaviour. What is it that sparks the behaviour? Is the work possibly too hard, does the student not understand the instructions?
he's just very violent towards other students and myself. His dad said he just likes to "test" people, so with that being said I've talked to the head of school and they suggested yoga or breathing exercises. It sounds nice but it's very tough when a student is getting into physical fights everyday and biting anyone who steps in.
@@MrHunksee those strategies will definitely be helpful but the key is prevention. So you dont necessarily do yoga when they are angry. You do it as part of the normal routine to help establish calm moods throughout the day. Then it becomes habit and when he gets angry he will learn to use those strategies to calm down. It takes time but it does work.
How do you prevent the rest of the class from not asking or expecting the same expectations as "those students"? Especially with the little ones, and during this pandemic?
I find that can be deterred with really open conversation with students about working towards their learning goals and that everyone will have different goals because we all have different strengths and we all have different areas for development. I even tell the students what my own learning goals are and sometimes sharing personal one such as a hiking goal. When that conversation is a continual focus it will include things like I know I need a bit of support to help me reach this goal. Someone else who has already developed that skill won't need the same support as me. Things like that make kids more open to the idea that it's not important for everyone to get the same things, but that it's important that each person gets what they need to best help them to learn. It can be hard to develop (especially with the little ones) but it can work if you keep that open conversation going without judgement.
@@talkinchalk thank you for this! I noted setting choices for "those students" in your video, I've attempted them only to realize everyone else wanted the same thing. So this morning I spoke to all of them about their "own goals" and different levels and development, and such as you mentioned. it went well! It is a conversation I'll always keep in mind especially throughout this very trying time. Thank you!!
Hi I was wondering what your thoughts are for a student that comes to class defiant from the minute she arrives and will not engage for multiple hours in any way at all? It is not a moment it is almost becoming part of her character sadly. There is further issue at home too? Thanks.
I would recommend a morning check-in session. This is usually done just prior to classes beginning or alternatively while classes are starting but a teachers aide could do the check-in of there's noone to supervise the class for a few mins. This is where you ask the student how they're feeling, if they've had breakfast, if they did anything interesting the afternoon before. They get the chance to talk, vent any issues and you can clarify what is getting them off to a bad start. I often offer students a journal to draw or write in and help process their emotions. Often kids just need to get it off their chest before starting the day so their frustration doesn't build. And gives you a good chance to talk aboht strategies, breath together before starting the day. I hope this helps ❤
I love this, just a newbee to your channel and absolutely love you; your teaching philosophies line up with mine. So Thank you! I encounter the most defiant behaviours when everyone is on the floor in a mini lesson. The child would be loud and disruptive and cannot always be ignored by all. Setting up things prior to this is always good and i can see how that works, but as a relief teacher and not knowing the child, it can be difficult. Do you have any suggestions in those situations?
It's always great to know like-minded people ❤️ when you don't know the child its always hard to know if you need to be soft and gently or firm but fair. A great method with those kids is usually distractions or giving them leadership roles e.g. "I can tell you're one of my clever kids so I need you to be in charge of blah, blah, blah" or "could you be the leader of this activity and let me know who you thinks should get points at the end". Its a great way to get them onside 😁 hope this helps!
Such a helpful video. Thank you so much! I'm doing my doctorate in education and I'm at the dissertation part of my degree. Would you be interested in doing an anonymous interview for my research? I'm researching how stand-up comedy works in the classroom to engage students with trauma. Let me know if you'd be interested!
When a child says “no” to you in front of the whole class sending them to the safe space( cool down corner) seems like a reward to the rest of the class. I did that one previous year, and children were trying to get to the cool down corner and would try to act in a way to get there. Because they were curious about the area …It sort of backfired.so now I use positive reinforcement for all following and saying thank you to certain children following rules and say “if you would like to sit in the happy-seat ( a special comfy chair)to complete your work at the last period of the day today since you have been completing your work all day so nicely “. definitely focused on the positive turns around a lot of this rogue behavior 😅
I did the same thing with balloons in the restaurant I worked at. Kid screaming and yelling? Literally EVERYONE else got a balloon. For behaving so well.
Opposition Defiance Disorder is about the most difficult thing I've encountered thus far. My favourite, from a student who was 7yo at the time: "I wish you were dead, and I'm not coming to your funeral" (yelled with all the venom a 7yo can muster).
Making expectations clear at the start has always been the best preventative measure I've found. No matter what their age...the "first you do this, then you can do that" helps everyone know where we're headed.
Exactly right! It can get so hard, especially with comments like that 😥 its sad to know just much hate and stress can get stored inside a little person ❤️
DO NOT NEGOTIATE! Love the advice of setting a clear expectation, and offering clear choices about next actions and consequences.
I think one thing that secondary teachers can find hard about step 2 though, is that effective distraction needs you to know the students and their interests pretty well. With ~140 students in our care (across 5 classes, roll call, and sport) it's hard to get to know them all well. And relying on humour requires a certain rapport, as teenagers don't give up the giggles so easily! So if you haven't already established knowledge of the student and rapport with them, distraction can be a bust.
I absolutely agree that with secondary that time constraint you have is a definite barrier to building a good relationship with a student - its actually the topic of a panel/workshop I've organised! Relationships are vital to education but your time with them is so limited 😥
Talkin' Chalk ooh, what's the workshop for? School, RUclips or other?
I wish more secondary schools would adopt middle school practices like having the same teacher for multiple subjects. We're often too siloed in our approach to curriculum.
Its one for my local network with some special guests to lead a panel before the workshop. If you follow me on Twitter I will share pics (Its not for a few weeks)
@@talkinchalk do you have any advice on what one can ask to break the ice, maybe during lunch or recess while on playground duty? I have a angry ODD student and truly rattling my head about getting her to open up about anything, let alone interests.
I would definitely talk to parents and family and friends about interests. Perhaps let them have free time on the computer and have a sticky beak to see if they are googling anything or playing any particular games etc. Ask the librarian for a print out of books they have borrowed in the past. Or even a writing task about favourite things 😉
Love this video. As a newly graduated teacher, I've been struggling a little and this video is exactly what I needed. x
So glad it has been beneficial for you ❤️ thanks for watching! 😁
This was great I have a student who shows autistic behaviors but will be defiant when asked to do something. I am going to try your suggestions in my classroom.
love the magnet analogy!
Lots of excellent tips for handling Opposition Defiance Disorder in this video...My best practice for dealing with the defiant student is removing them from the setting..It's easy to walk a student in to the hallway, let them calm down for a couple of minutes and then address the issues...Thank you Bec for another great video! 👍🙂
That's a great strategy. Definitely helps the student recognise those moments of difficulty so they can self-monitor their reactions as they get older 👍
This is the first time I am watching your video. I love the tips given. However, In the country that I work we are not allowed to put a student out for time out .It is sometimes very difficult to continue a class with a defiant student taking away all the instruction time.How can we deal with situation like this?
Question here: How do you ignore them, when they are disrupting the class, and you've got a whole other 19 students to teach?
EXACTLY!!!
I think it’s also important to remember that a lot of these kids who are diagnosed with oppositional defiance disorder are actually driven by anxiety and have pathological demand avoidance.
Thankfully pda is more recognized these days, especially in the autism community.
Defiance caused from anxiety needs to be dealt with completely differently. Ignoring doesn’t help. Bribing or earning a reward doesn’t help. They need proactive supports in place and lots of gentle reassuring of whatever is triggering the anxiety. Doing things together or setting time frames also helps relieve the anxiety too.
Absolutely agree! Ive learned more about PDA in recent years that has really helped me use a more trauma-informed approach to supporting students. Thank you so much for sharing your insights ❤
Couldn't click on this video fast enough! Great tips and reminders, thank you! Really needed to hear this.
Glad it was helpful for you ❤️ thanks for the lovely feedback! 😁
Thank you Rebecca. Your strategies are exactly what we've been using, so I feel really relieved that we've been on the right track in our school. I love the point you made that after a few weeks, the expectation would be raised to '1st part and 2nd part, then the Lego'. We have probably not been lifting the bar soon enough. Thank you so much! Reall yappreciate your down to earth style. Keep up the great work!
You're very welcome! So glad to hear it was helpful ❤😃🍎
Sometimes matching their physical level makes it easy to be spit on by some kids.
It's difficult when you have several. When one is done, another starts up. We have a school where every class has 5 or 6 kids who come from homes with poverty, neglect, drug use, parents with mental health and behaviour issues, and just general anger and trauma issues. It's great to have these skills, but it's so hard when there are so many needs.
I can relate. The things you've listed is exactly what I have at my school. The best thing we can do for those kids is work together as a whole school to create a safe environment. A place where they know that when they're at school they are safe, fed, warm and cared for. A place that focuses on the positive ❤ this will take time but it can create such a great school culture
My son has a TBI and has a behavior development delay. It's not always home issues. ADD ADHD and autism are also issues.
@@farmerchick3040 I didn’t mean to suggest it’s always home issues. However, I come from a school that has many, many students with home issues. They have trauma from poverty, neglect, violence in the home, drug and alcohol abuse, unstable housing, and being in the child welfare system. I know my students very well. For them, it’s due to their circumstances. It’s not a matter of blame or unfair comparison, but an acknowledgment of their trauma and honouring of their needs.
Excellent tips thank you. I like your analogy about the magnets magnets. I have a chart that says first, next and then reward time. Similar to your suggestion. That was a great video.
Thanks for watching ❤️ I'm glad to hear you enjoyed it. The first, next, reward charts are consistently effective for students with lots of different needs. I love using them 😁
I have had a situation with a 10 year old that haunts me to this day because I did everything that I thought would help and it made it worse. The more ignored him the more the tantrum grew, he even started spraying me with a water gun. I was babysitting therefore could not leave the house, I had to suck it up.. but I snapped...
You´re a live savior, thanks for your advise and sharing your experience.
You're very welcome! I'm so glad the video was helpful 😃
Had a student in class with disruptive behavior, this all started when the teacher did the paper review in a secondary class.He was not happy with the marks he got and had an argument with the teacher, throwing tantrum when he was warned that he will be taken to the admin for this behavior was unacceptable.He was ready and acting like a hero while going downstairs ,he then said sorry and teacher accepted it.
But the situation became bad to worst the entire class ganged up against the teacher ,was never an easy task for the teacher to conduct the lesson as per planning .The entire class is in sync with this negativity and gave bad feedback against the teacher in teachers report.
Any recommendation, for I have to council both the parties, what should the teacher do?
How can the student be tamed?
This was really very helpful for me. However, what do I do when my student is having a melt down (kicking books and desks, crying, yelling, throwing themselve on the floor)? The student always refuses to leave or find a quiet space because they see it as a punishment. Also this is an ESL course, so the young one doesn't have the English capability to understand (even in the native language it's a struggle). During PTA meetings the student's parents said they are much too busy to deal with it.
On top of things, the S comes to class everyday with a family sized bag of cookies for just them. We've discussed with the parents about that already, but nothing changes and when we try to talk to the S about it, the S just says "they're mine, I can do what I want with them, my mom/dad gave me these."
Oh wow it sounds like this kid doesn't have the structure he needs at home. That makes it difficult at school, especially if he is older. Considering this is a language class have you considered using visuals/photos to help reinforce instructions for this student? I would recommend looking closely at the root cause of the behaviour. What is it that sparks the behaviour? Is the work possibly too hard, does the student not understand the instructions?
@@talkinchalk He has ADHD / ODD. He is a wonderfully smart boy, he just needs extra help to learn how to regulate his emotions at school.
he's just very violent towards other students and myself. His dad said he just likes to "test" people, so with that being said I've talked to the head of school and they suggested yoga or breathing exercises. It sounds nice but it's very tough when a student is getting into physical fights everyday and biting anyone who steps in.
@@MrHunksee those strategies will definitely be helpful but the key is prevention. So you dont necessarily do yoga when they are angry. You do it as part of the normal routine to help establish calm moods throughout the day. Then it becomes habit and when he gets angry he will learn to use those strategies to calm down. It takes time but it does work.
How do you prevent the rest of the class from not asking or expecting the same expectations as "those students"? Especially with the little ones, and during this pandemic?
I find that can be deterred with really open conversation with students about working towards their learning goals and that everyone will have different goals because we all have different strengths and we all have different areas for development. I even tell the students what my own learning goals are and sometimes sharing personal one such as a hiking goal. When that conversation is a continual focus it will include things like I know I need a bit of support to help me reach this goal. Someone else who has already developed that skill won't need the same support as me. Things like that make kids more open to the idea that it's not important for everyone to get the same things, but that it's important that each person gets what they need to best help them to learn. It can be hard to develop (especially with the little ones) but it can work if you keep that open conversation going without judgement.
@@talkinchalk thank you for this! I noted setting choices for "those students" in your video, I've attempted them only to realize everyone else wanted the same thing. So this morning I spoke to all of them about their "own goals" and different levels and development, and such as you mentioned. it went well! It is a conversation I'll always keep in mind especially throughout this very trying time. Thank you!!
they need time and space...time to collect themselves and the space to do it! card ...self time out
Hi I was wondering what your thoughts are for a student that comes to class defiant from the minute she arrives and will not engage for multiple hours in any way at all? It is not a moment it is almost becoming part of her character sadly. There is further issue at home too? Thanks.
I would recommend a morning check-in session. This is usually done just prior to classes beginning or alternatively while classes are starting but a teachers aide could do the check-in of there's noone to supervise the class for a few mins. This is where you ask the student how they're feeling, if they've had breakfast, if they did anything interesting the afternoon before. They get the chance to talk, vent any issues and you can clarify what is getting them off to a bad start. I often offer students a journal to draw or write in and help process their emotions. Often kids just need to get it off their chest before starting the day so their frustration doesn't build. And gives you a good chance to talk aboht strategies, breath together before starting the day. I hope this helps ❤
NNNNO.
hilarious. love from India.
I love this, just a newbee to your channel and absolutely love you; your teaching philosophies line up with mine. So Thank you! I encounter the most defiant behaviours when everyone is on the floor in a mini lesson. The child would be loud and disruptive and cannot always be ignored by all. Setting up things prior to this is always good and i can see how that works, but as a relief teacher and not knowing the child, it can be difficult. Do you have any suggestions in those situations?
It's always great to know like-minded people ❤️ when you don't know the child its always hard to know if you need to be soft and gently or firm but fair. A great method with those kids is usually distractions or giving them leadership roles e.g. "I can tell you're one of my clever kids so I need you to be in charge of blah, blah, blah" or "could you be the leader of this activity and let me know who you thinks should get points at the end". Its a great way to get them onside 😁 hope this helps!
Thanks Bec :)
Such a helpful video. Thank you so much! I'm doing my doctorate in education and I'm at the dissertation part of my degree. Would you be interested in doing an anonymous interview for my research? I'm researching how stand-up comedy works in the classroom to engage students with trauma. Let me know if you'd be interested!
Love the tips. Do you have any videos on kids that don’t like to hear no and go from 0-10 when they don’t get their own way?
She says this here too. Don't need to tell them no. Give them choices and expectations
Or alternatively, a good old fashioned clip across the ear
Collaborative problem solving needs to become ms.
I have
Class mats in class with otism
It would be nice if you would talk at a bit slower pace..thanks