I like how Americans can't refrain from sneering at Communism when they look at Eastern Bloc technology. The latest Vignale-bodied Tatra gets stick for not being computerised because there was insufficient investment for the state-owned company to keep up. Contrary to what was said, Tatra was actually nationalised in 1945, well before the communist take-over. Yet Detroit was very late to switch from side valve to overhead valve engines and even to change from drum to disc brakes, though their companies were probably the most profitable in the capitalist word. Alfred P Sloan had made cars fashion products, meant to be replaced every year like clothes. Tatra used to be renowned for its advanced engineering. There was a lot of collaboration between their engineer Hans Ledwinka and Ferdinand Porsche, which accounts for the similarity to the original Volkswagen Beetle: Tatra had begun to sue before the German invasion and VW eventually settled out of court in 1965. One thing Americans never comment on is the lack of built-in obsolescence: even thick steel that stands up to rocky roads and doesn't rust quickly gets sneered at by the likes of Jay Leno.
You are correct sir. Indeed, Tatra was much more advanced than most US cars of the 30's to 60's. When the US cars slowly reverted from SV to OHV in the late 40's and early 50's, Tatra already used OHC since 1906, when it even wasn't a Tatra and the country was still a part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. In the 30's, when the big V8 Tatra 77 a 87 came, they had DOHC. Tatra was nationalised in 1945, because Has Ledwinka was accused of collaborating with the Nazis (Tatra was a part of the Hermann Goering Werke and supplied Wehrmacht with trucks - the great irony is, that the Tatra 111 V12 truck introduced in 1942 was to carry Wehrmacht, yet after the war, it was praised for "building socialism" and has a statue dedicated to it in Siberia, cause at that time, when antifreeze was rare, not much cars could run there). The nationalising programme was introduced by the Czechoslovak goverment as an agreement between the democratic parties and the communists, who already had a big say in it. Also, the communist party won the general elections in 1946, because they said all the right words and because the democratic parties were totally impotent. The silimarity between the pre-war Tatra (especially the second V570 prototype) and the VW Beetle comes apparently not only from their cooperation and same interests, but also from a meeting between Ledwinka, his son and Hitler in Hitler's private flat. Hitler was charmed by the big Tatra, claiming that "This is the car for my autobahn". Ledwinka apparenty shoved him a sketch of the V570 and Hitler mush have kept it and later, he gave it to Porsche as "an inspiration". All of that is according to Jonathan Mantle's book "Car wars". Btw I don't think Jay Leno sneers on the Tatra, but quite the opposite. He did a video last year on his T87 and had all the good words for it. Interesting that many say Tatra was obsolete, yet it's conception was basically the same as the Tucker Type 48, the breakdown car that the Big Three had to destroy in order to keep up their sales of "new" model cars.
@@AlejjSi Thanks. I haven't seen Jay Leno's review of the Tatra: I was thinking of his review of a Russian car, probably a Volga. But in general, American reviewers of cars seem to prize fashion over durability, as if they were haute couture.
@@faithlesshound5621 Yeah, that's right, he did review the Volga M21 some time ago and yes, he sort of ridiculed it, though I see no reason why, it was designed to resemble the American car after all, only a bit smaller. But Volga was obsolete compared to the Tatra, also smaller and less powerful (except for the KGB V8 version perhaps). But comfortable non the less. Jay named the video with the Tatra "The Nazi killer", tribute to the fact that many German soldiers died in them when they traveled fast and were surprised how the rear engined car behaved in the corners.He also said that the Tatra still feels now like a modern car and much better than aony other car from it's time.
It is also worth noting that Continental European car companies started changing over to 12 Volt electrical systems in the 1920s but some Yank car writers were reportedly moaning in the early 1950s about Jaguar cars having 12 Volt batteries instead of 6 Volt batteries! 🧐
4:43 Notice that somebody put a sizable grille on that rear-engined car. I wonder it that was just for styling, or if maybe they chose a water-cooled engine for those years.
@@AlejjSi Compliments, that's an excellent response. Most people don't know that air-cooled engines use their lubricant as a cooling element, and so a radiator helps a lot. I have a two-seater that while being liquid cooled has an oil radiator with dedicated fan.
ČSSR (CzechoSlovak Socialistic Republic) was the name introduced in 1960 (so 12 years after the communist takeover), when the Czechoslovak politbyro claimed that Czechoslovakia became the second country after "our great ally, the fraternal Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" which achieved socialism. It came with a new constitution, where the preamble said that "socialism has won in our country," proclaiming that the last obstacle to socialism had been removed by "the determined action of the working people in February 1948." Oh my God, I mean the country was suffering, people¨s wages were declining (in a socialist country!), the Third five year plan was about to fail and they had time for stupid things like this.
@@AlejjSi ., ., ale pro obyčejné pracující lidi bylo dobře. Dnes zasraný zlodějský kapitalismus s příchutí nově nastupujícího fašismu je katastrofa. Lidé nemají peníze na nic. Elektřinu si sami vyrobíme ve velkém množství, ale musíme téměř zdarma vyvážet na západ. Plyn nemáme. Uhlí nám zakazují.Z jedné sračky socialismu jsme ihned v druhé sračce kapitalismu se současným rychlým přechodem k fašismu.
@@AlejjSi @AlejjSi.,., But it was good for ordinary working people. Today, fucking thieving capitalism with a taste of emerging fascism is a disaster. People have no money for anything. We produce electricity in large quantities ourselves, but we have to export it to the west almost free of charge. We don't have gas. Coal forbids us. From one shit of socialism we are immediately in the other shit of capitalism with the current rapid transition to fascism.
@@romansvehla7352 Nojo, to už je zase věc jiná. A ani bych to kapitalismem tady nenazýval, spíš je to takovej mix, jak se to vrchnosti hodí, aby si velký furmy mohly dělat, co chtěly, ale malej živnostním musel držet hubu a krok. A mnoho dnešních prováděčů moci je čirou "náhodou" potomky těch, co tu dělali ten minulej režim, a to nejen u nás, ale i v celý EU...
Probably so, rear engine designs were not even that unusual as a lot of companies were experimenting with it- even Mercedes I think? NSU had a prototype, but Porsche worked his way into the good graces of the nazi leadership. I think it is tragic what happened with Tatra's design being crushed, but was much surprised to see it reemerge with the T600
@@superadventure6297 The silimarity between the pre-war Tatra (especially the second V570 prototype) and the VW Beetle comes apparently not only from their cooperation and same interests, but also from a meeting between Ledwinka, his son and Hitler in Hitler's private flat. Hitler was charmed by the big Tatra, claiming that "This is the car for my autobahn". Ledwinka apparenty shoved him a sketch of the V570 and Hitler mush have kept it and later, he gave it to Porsche as "an inspiration". All of that is according to Jonathan Mantle's book "Car wars". But you're right, other companies too explored the rear engined people's car. In Czechoslovakia, also Skoda experimented with it and in 1932 produced the Skoda 932, nicknamed Kadlomobil. The nickname comes from the company's director Ing. Karel Hrdlička, who initiated the project (Kadel was a familiar alias for Karel). It had a 1,5 liter flat four air cooled engine and looked like a standard tudor, which got the fronta nd read from the VW Beetle (though the Beetle was much later). Two years later, in 1934,there was another car named the Skoda 932, but it was bigger, looked rather like a standard two door and was powered by the same engine (some magazines claim it was a straight four cylinder two liter, but nobody knows for sure). Eventually Skoda solved their people's car quest with the 1934 car Skoda 420 Standard, 418 Popular and 420 Popular, who were so popular (😅) that it ensured Skoda became the biggest car manufacturer in Czechoslovakia (by 1934 Skoda was only 3rd behing Praga and Tatra). Interesting fact is, that though they had the engine in the front, they used and air cooled angine and also the same central frame and independent suspension concept as used by Tatra, simply because it was the cheapest at that time. The Popular cars were so cheap, they only cost 25% of the similarly sized Skoda cars in 1929. The last Skoda rear engined prototype was the 1935 Skoda 935 Dynamic. It was a large four door limousine (4,86 meters) and from the back and sides it very much resembled the Tatra 87. The font was completely different though, because it had a normal looking grille, since the radiator was at the front (solution much later used in the 1976-90 Skoda 742). That was neccessary, since the flat four cylinder two liter engine was layed in front of the rear axle (the rear window was situated above the half way point of the motor). The car too used a central tube frame. The front axle was trapezoidal independent suspension, the rear axle was swing half-axle just like the Tatra. The power was transmitted to the rear axle using French electromagnetic four speed semi automatic Cotal transmission and hydraulic clutch. Whilst none of the two Skoda 932 prototypes survived, the only built Skoda 935 amazingly did and was recently restored by Skoda and is now at display in the Skoda factory museum in Mladá Boleslav.
On the eve of WW2, Ferdinand Porsche had 10 patent infringement claims filed against him by Tatra. Hitler told him not to worry, the matter was going to be settled soon.
@@superadventure6297 rear engined cars were quite common in post WW2 Europe: Obviously the Tatra's Skoda's ZAZ Zaporozhets VW beetle, 1500/1600, 411/412, Karman Ghia Renault 4CV, Dauphine, R8, R10 Simca 1000 Fiat 500,600,850 Porsche 356, 912, 911 NSU Prinz Bmw 800 Hillman Imp and probably a few more i have forgotten about. The reason for this lay-out is the same as for the Frontwheel drive lay-out, it's cheaper to produce. You can install engine, gbox and suspension in 1 operation from underneath. Way easier/cheaper then on a car with conventional front engine- rearwheel drive lay-out.
Sadly from 2030 on all combustion cars including classics will be banned from public streets in entire EU and Scandinavia :-( In Germany the Green Peoples Party gave order to shorten fuel supply from 2025 on by reducing all conventional fuel stations to only one state operated central gas station per city or county. Now they even want to slow down all the gas pumps from 20 litre per minute to 2 litre per minute...From 2027 on in the EU certain car spare parts will be banned too....as exhaust systems, turbo chargers and even some engine and gearbox oils...California and New York will do the same from 2027 on.... So no investments should be done in oil burning cars any longer....They even created a new kind of crime here, called emissions and smoke crime. " Bundesabgasbespaßungsverbotsverordnung" in German.
Ugh that's horrible.. I don't think that will ever be possible. You need to elect different people! That is the one thing about such rules as this, in the public sphere, it can be overturned with enough votes. Or else enough of the public refusing to comply!
@@superadventure6297 Sadly China also dictates the end of use of all combustion cars worldwide. Chinas boss Darth Xi told all politicians that China wont do any business with underdeveloped countries that still allow CO2 emitting traffic, aircrafts or combustion based industry after 2030...I am sure USA and UK also will be forced by China to 100% electric traffic because today no industrialized country can afford sanctions by China.... China just rules the world...:-(//
@Schlipperschlopper: Please stop talking bullshit! The Green Party is of course a bunch of assholes, but all you say is just carnival clown bullshit!. Nobody ever has talked about forbidding to sell exhaust pipes or reducing the pumps to 2 litres per minute. It is only true that in many cities in Europe, they do not allow a lot of Diesel cars to enter to the centers of the cities. But cars older than 30 years are considered to be historical and are also allowed to drive in the city centers! But don't talk trash!
@@jurivlk5433 Sadly China wants to sell electric cars and lithium, all that combustion banning here is not about the environment, PRC dictates the end of use of all combustion cars worldwide. China told our EU politicians that they wont do any business with underdeveloped countries that still allow CO2 emitting traffic or combustion based industry after 2030...I am sure USA and UK also will be forced by China to 100% electric traffic because today no industrialized country can afford sanctions by China.... China just rules the world...:-(
For most cars, I agree (in my case, it's just because I'm lazy) but for a chauffeur car like the 613, or any limousine really, they should have automatics. I doubt the 4 speed in these cars had any sporting character, the communist officials sitting in back likely weren't admiring the driver's gear changes lol
Thank you. I doubt that you would see such a display anywhere else outside the Czech Republic.
I like how Americans can't refrain from sneering at Communism when they look at Eastern Bloc technology. The latest Vignale-bodied Tatra gets stick for not being computerised because there was insufficient investment for the state-owned company to keep up. Contrary to what was said, Tatra was actually nationalised in 1945, well before the communist take-over.
Yet Detroit was very late to switch from side valve to overhead valve engines and even to change from drum to disc brakes, though their companies were probably the most profitable in the capitalist word. Alfred P Sloan had made cars fashion products, meant to be replaced every year like clothes.
Tatra used to be renowned for its advanced engineering. There was a lot of collaboration between their engineer Hans Ledwinka and Ferdinand Porsche, which accounts for the similarity to the original Volkswagen Beetle: Tatra had begun to sue before the German invasion and VW eventually settled out of court in 1965.
One thing Americans never comment on is the lack of built-in obsolescence: even thick steel that stands up to rocky roads and doesn't rust quickly gets sneered at by the likes of Jay Leno.
You are correct sir. Indeed, Tatra was much more advanced than most US cars of the 30's to 60's. When the US cars slowly reverted from SV to OHV in the late 40's and early 50's, Tatra already used OHC since 1906, when it even wasn't a Tatra and the country was still a part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. In the 30's, when the big V8 Tatra 77 a 87 came, they had DOHC.
Tatra was nationalised in 1945, because Has Ledwinka was accused of collaborating with the Nazis (Tatra was a part of the Hermann Goering Werke and supplied Wehrmacht with trucks - the great irony is, that the Tatra 111 V12 truck introduced in 1942 was to carry Wehrmacht, yet after the war, it was praised for "building socialism" and has a statue dedicated to it in Siberia, cause at that time, when antifreeze was rare, not much cars could run there). The nationalising programme was introduced by the Czechoslovak goverment as an agreement between the democratic parties and the communists, who already had a big say in it. Also, the communist party won the general elections in 1946, because they said all the right words and because the democratic parties were totally impotent.
The silimarity between the pre-war Tatra (especially the second V570 prototype) and the VW Beetle comes apparently not only from their cooperation and same interests, but also from a meeting between Ledwinka, his son and Hitler in Hitler's private flat. Hitler was charmed by the big Tatra, claiming that "This is the car for my autobahn". Ledwinka apparenty shoved him a sketch of the V570 and Hitler mush have kept it and later, he gave it to Porsche as "an inspiration". All of that is according to Jonathan Mantle's book "Car wars".
Btw I don't think Jay Leno sneers on the Tatra, but quite the opposite. He did a video last year on his T87 and had all the good words for it. Interesting that many say Tatra was obsolete, yet it's conception was basically the same as the Tucker Type 48, the breakdown car that the Big Three had to destroy in order to keep up their sales of "new" model cars.
@@AlejjSi Thanks. I haven't seen Jay Leno's review of the Tatra: I was thinking of his review of a Russian car, probably a Volga. But in general, American reviewers of cars seem to prize fashion over durability, as if they were haute couture.
@@faithlesshound5621 Yeah, that's right, he did review the Volga M21 some time ago and yes, he sort of ridiculed it, though I see no reason why, it was designed to resemble the American car after all, only a bit smaller. But Volga was obsolete compared to the Tatra, also smaller and less powerful (except for the KGB V8 version perhaps). But comfortable non the less.
Jay named the video with the Tatra "The Nazi killer", tribute to the fact that many German soldiers died in them when they traveled fast and were surprised how the rear engined car behaved in the corners.He also said that the Tatra still feels now like a modern car and much better than aony other car from it's time.
It is also worth noting that Continental European car companies started changing over to 12 Volt electrical systems in the 1920s but some Yank car writers were reportedly moaning in the early 1950s about Jaguar cars having 12 Volt batteries instead of 6 Volt batteries! 🧐
Regrets instead of sneering would be more appropriate.
nice little video.
The V8 insignia is from BL, probably a Rover and the Czech's were WAY ahead in technology noting the CD player from 1950's
“ disc wheels”? On the ‘76 613, those look like the 2006 Honda Civic premium alloys.
The very early Tatras remind me of the early Renaults.
French cars are ridiculous. Uncompetitive competition.
@@romansvehla7352 you’re right, early Renaults were competition for Rolls Royce.
4:43 Notice that somebody put a sizable grille on that rear-engined car. I wonder it that was just for styling, or if maybe they chose a water-cooled engine for those years.
The engine was indeed aircooled. It could be that the grille was there for the A/C.
@@dm5374 A car with A/C in 1950? In eastern europe?
@@larstragl146 My mistake, sorry, I was referring to the front grille on the rear-engined, aircooled T-700 which did have A/C.
The reason for the front grille was the fact that the T600 had it's oil cooler in here, like the older Tatra models.
@@AlejjSi Compliments, that's an excellent response. Most people don't know that air-cooled engines use their lubricant as a cooling element, and so a radiator helps a lot. I have a two-seater that while being liquid cooled has an oil radiator with dedicated fan.
CZ is for Czech Republic, CS was for Czechoslovakia, CSSR was during the communist era
ČSSR (CzechoSlovak Socialistic Republic) was the name introduced in 1960 (so 12 years after the communist takeover), when the Czechoslovak politbyro claimed that Czechoslovakia became the second country after "our great ally, the fraternal Union of Soviet Socialist Republics" which achieved socialism. It came with a new constitution, where the preamble said that "socialism has won in our country," proclaiming that the last obstacle to socialism had been removed by "the determined action of the working people in February 1948."
Oh my God, I mean the country was suffering, people¨s wages were declining (in a socialist country!), the Third five year plan was about to fail and they had time for stupid things like this.
@@AlejjSi ., ., ale pro obyčejné pracující lidi bylo dobře. Dnes zasraný zlodějský kapitalismus s příchutí nově nastupujícího fašismu je katastrofa. Lidé nemají peníze na nic. Elektřinu si sami vyrobíme ve velkém množství, ale musíme téměř zdarma vyvážet na západ. Plyn nemáme. Uhlí nám zakazují.Z jedné sračky socialismu jsme ihned v druhé sračce kapitalismu se současným rychlým přechodem k fašismu.
@@AlejjSi @AlejjSi.,., But it was good for ordinary working people. Today, fucking thieving capitalism with a taste of emerging fascism is a disaster. People have no money for anything. We produce electricity in large quantities ourselves, but we have to export it to the west almost free of charge. We don't have gas. Coal forbids us. From one shit of socialism we are immediately in the other shit of capitalism with the current rapid transition to fascism.
@@romansvehla7352 Nojo, to už je zase věc jiná. A ani bych to kapitalismem tady nenazýval, spíš je to takovej mix, jak se to vrchnosti hodí, aby si velký furmy mohly dělat, co chtěly, ale malej živnostním musel držet hubu a krok. A mnoho dnešních prováděčů moci je čirou "náhodou" potomky těch, co tu dělali ten minulej režim, a to nejen u nás, ale i v celý EU...
Oh t97 succeeded immensely in a form of vw beetle
The taillamps on the 613 and 700 were obviously influenced by the Mercedes of the era.
Tatra is one the oldest car manufacturers in the world! Today they are making only trucks!
Porsche stole the rear engine design from Tatra.
Probably so, rear engine designs were not even that unusual as a lot of companies were experimenting with it- even Mercedes I think? NSU had a prototype, but Porsche worked his way into the good graces of the nazi leadership. I think it is tragic what happened with Tatra's design being crushed, but was much surprised to see it reemerge with the T600
@@superadventure6297 The silimarity between the pre-war Tatra (especially the second V570 prototype) and the VW Beetle comes apparently not only from their cooperation and same interests, but also from a meeting between Ledwinka, his son and Hitler in Hitler's private flat. Hitler was charmed by the big Tatra, claiming that "This is the car for my autobahn". Ledwinka apparenty shoved him a sketch of the V570 and Hitler mush have kept it and later, he gave it to Porsche as "an inspiration". All of that is according to Jonathan Mantle's book "Car wars".
But you're right, other companies too explored the rear engined people's car. In Czechoslovakia, also Skoda experimented with it and in 1932 produced the Skoda 932, nicknamed Kadlomobil. The nickname comes from the company's director Ing. Karel Hrdlička, who initiated the project (Kadel was a familiar alias for Karel). It had a 1,5 liter flat four air cooled engine and looked like a standard tudor, which got the fronta nd read from the VW Beetle (though the Beetle was much later). Two years later, in 1934,there was another car named the Skoda 932, but it was bigger, looked rather like a standard two door and was powered by the same engine (some magazines claim it was a straight four cylinder two liter, but nobody knows for sure). Eventually Skoda solved their people's car quest with the 1934 car Skoda 420 Standard, 418 Popular and 420 Popular, who were so popular (😅) that it ensured Skoda became the biggest car manufacturer in Czechoslovakia (by 1934 Skoda was only 3rd behing Praga and Tatra). Interesting fact is, that though they had the engine in the front, they used and air cooled angine and also the same central frame and independent suspension concept as used by Tatra, simply because it was the cheapest at that time. The Popular cars were so cheap, they only cost 25% of the similarly sized Skoda cars in 1929.
The last Skoda rear engined prototype was the 1935 Skoda 935 Dynamic. It was a large four door limousine (4,86 meters) and from the back and sides it very much resembled the Tatra 87. The font was completely different though, because it had a normal looking grille, since the radiator was at the front (solution much later used in the 1976-90 Skoda 742). That was neccessary, since the flat four cylinder two liter engine was layed in front of the rear axle (the rear window was situated above the half way point of the motor). The car too used a central tube frame. The front axle was trapezoidal independent suspension, the rear axle was swing half-axle just like the Tatra. The power was transmitted to the rear axle using French electromagnetic four speed semi automatic Cotal transmission and hydraulic clutch.
Whilst none of the two Skoda 932 prototypes survived, the only built Skoda 935 amazingly did and was recently restored by Skoda and is now at display in the Skoda factory museum in Mladá Boleslav.
On the eve of WW2, Ferdinand Porsche had 10 patent infringement claims filed against him by Tatra. Hitler told him not to worry, the matter was going to be settled soon.
@@superadventure6297 rear engined cars were quite common in post WW2 Europe:
Obviously the Tatra's
Skoda's
ZAZ Zaporozhets
VW beetle, 1500/1600, 411/412, Karman Ghia
Renault 4CV, Dauphine, R8, R10
Simca 1000
Fiat 500,600,850
Porsche 356, 912, 911
NSU Prinz
Bmw 800
Hillman Imp
and probably a few more i have forgotten about.
The reason for this lay-out is the same as for the Frontwheel drive lay-out, it's cheaper to produce. You can install engine, gbox and suspension in 1 operation from underneath. Way easier/cheaper then on a car with conventional front engine- rearwheel drive lay-out.
term
Sadly from 2030 on all combustion cars including classics will be banned from public streets in entire EU and Scandinavia :-( In Germany the Green Peoples Party gave order to shorten fuel supply from 2025 on by reducing all conventional fuel stations to only one state operated central gas station per city or county. Now they even want to slow down all the gas pumps from 20 litre per minute to 2 litre per minute...From 2027 on in the EU certain car spare parts will be banned too....as exhaust systems, turbo chargers and even some engine and gearbox oils...California and New York will do the same from 2027 on.... So no investments should be done in oil burning cars any longer....They even created a new kind of crime here, called emissions and smoke crime. " Bundesabgasbespaßungsverbotsverordnung" in German.
Ugh that's horrible.. I don't think that will ever be possible. You need to elect different people! That is the one thing about such rules as this, in the public sphere, it can be overturned with enough votes. Or else enough of the public refusing to comply!
@@superadventure6297 Sadly China also dictates the end of use of all combustion cars worldwide. Chinas boss Darth Xi told all politicians that China wont do any business with underdeveloped countries that still allow CO2 emitting traffic, aircrafts or combustion based industry after 2030...I am sure USA and UK also will be forced by China to 100% electric traffic because today no industrialized country can afford sanctions by China.... China just rules the world...:-(//
@@superadventure6297 "Dinosaurs digging their heels in" is more a feature of the US than of Germany, as is blaming China for everything.
@Schlipperschlopper: Please stop talking bullshit! The Green Party is of course a bunch of assholes, but all you say is just carnival clown bullshit!. Nobody ever has talked about forbidding to sell exhaust pipes or reducing the pumps to 2 litres per minute.
It is only true that in many cities in Europe, they do not allow a lot of Diesel cars to enter to the centers of the cities. But cars older than 30 years are considered to be historical and are also allowed to drive in the city centers! But don't talk trash!
@@jurivlk5433 Sadly China wants to sell electric cars and lithium, all that combustion banning here is not about the environment, PRC dictates the end of use of all combustion cars worldwide. China told our EU politicians that they wont do any business with underdeveloped countries that still allow CO2 emitting traffic or combustion based industry after 2030...I am sure USA and UK also will be forced by China to 100% electric traffic because today no industrialized country can afford sanctions by China.... China just rules the world...:-(
"not even automatic"
Automatic gearbox is for granny or americans who do not know how to shift.
For most cars, I agree (in my case, it's just because I'm lazy) but for a chauffeur car like the 613, or any limousine really, they should have automatics. I doubt the 4 speed in these cars had any sporting character, the communist officials sitting in back likely weren't admiring the driver's gear changes lol
"stagnated economy" good tetm
yes, the T97 twas a people's car,, the T600 was for privileged
French cars are ridiculous. Uncompetitive competition.