Mahalo Nui Loa! I received my BAC 8000 controller! Power level 3 lifts my front tire with ease. It’s time for me to kill some hill climbs! Bac 8000 with a EBMX 60V battery is just insane power!!!!!!!
@@StarWarsKrew power is amazing. The only criticism I have with the EBMX battery is there wiring fried because it’s so thin with the amount of power flowing. EBMX will tell you that it’s from water or dirt. I told them I don’t ride my bike in the house or in a gym. 😂 they recommend to upgrade the wiring to a bigger gauge. Which to me they should of done when manufacturing the battery at first. I had to find a person because the battery dealer I bought it from didn’t have anyone to do it. 🤦🏻♂️ Issue is resolved after finding someone months later…..but the other weak point was the battery LCD screen that got water in it and doesn’t show the battery percentage. I didn’t want to go through the BS. I recommend to upgrade the wiring and QS8 connectors. The ebmx battery screen display add some kind of silicone to keep rain or water out from going in.
Very close considering the higher ah possibilities in a 60v. Thanks for making well thought out informative videos about rons, but what is the intention with the intro music?
@@ChargedCycleWorks would change the music. You're showcasing and analyzing customizations on an almost beyond modern machine, with intro music from a bad 70's infomercial. It just clashes a little hard the instant you click a vid imo. (could be wrong sorry, just comparing to other content providers) Great vids, cheers.
It seems like a large 60v is the way to go. Still super fast but not to the point where its just too much. As long as it has the top speed, range, and acceleration and torque to rip wheelies that's a win.
The biggest reason to go to 72v is to lower the temperatures in the motor. If you do a lot of hill climbing or MX full speed riding the motors overheat easier with 60v.
@@ChargedCycleWorks great vid… I’m tossed up… same setup as you (bac4000/12k tune)and wanting a chibattery but now that I saw how close the 72 and 60 were, I’d rather have more ah… I’m assuming if I had a bac8000 that would make the differences bigger (maybe a future vid for you?). Mostly fast commuting (with daily wheelies) so level 1,2… with 3,4,5 on tap for the 90/10 street/dirt day. Curious, stock throttle?
@@eleon1143 ref doing to buy a Sur Ron & you seem to know what you're talking about. I've no idea but wanna fast, quick, off road capable bike with decent range. I'm not a speed demon, just want to cruise street & trails with random wheelies. No prob jumps or nothing
@@rconn4501 the stock Surron or even Taleria Sting, does great stock. A $20 battery bypass kit and you’ll get 45mph solid with wind in your face… that’s plenty to be happy with for price of the bike and minor upgrade. Little by little can modify it, but for commuting, and occasional dirt trails.. it’s totally fun. Battery upgrades usually need a controller as well ($1500 battery, 900 controller) but you can get by with just a battery. I think stock is 4000kw and a stock battery bypass ($20) gives you a slight bump (maybe 5000kw but at the cost of range.. or less mileage. If just a battery upgrade to the many 60v 60ah batteries out there will bump power up (tops is 7kw,) even more but gives you a lot more range. I didn’t throw phase amps in to not confuse you or myself with numbers but just keep YouTubing videos of diff battery options. It’s cheaper than experimenting on your bike :)
Yeah but if you want that best off-the-line acceleration, you need to use all your phase amps which is only used on your highest mode (level) regardless what you set the max kW to As this is the main technical difference between the BAC4000 & BAC8000, it should be obvious that phase amps makes a difference lol And then of course you have your field weakening setting, 0%, 5%, 10% are my go-to options. I only wish it was easier to change on the fly The bike acceleration feels slow to me with 0% field weakening but then again the torque is highest without field weakening combined with a good amount of kW, same goes for these settings: 5% is a huge boost & makes the bike accelerate faster while still maintaining most of the torque that's lost 10% the ultimate 72v experience, if I'm not mistaken this is the 70+ mph setting if you combine it with a good amount of kW but torque is low at this point compared to 0%/5% field weakening. It feels considerably faster and will leave you with a smile, it's that good! Keep in mind that -it's hard to keep track of how much these settings drains the battery it's probably best to do your own tests to find your range limits. Lets say 10% fw + 10kw can drain 10-20% of your battery very quickly if your maxing your throttle. Get the max or touring batteries from chi battery if you want the best experience -You can increase your torque by opting for an upgraded 60v instead or getting a bigger sprocket, each with their own pros/cons
Can you do a heat test with the 60v chi vs the 72v? Since the 60v is pushing more amps to get the same KW it seems like it would heat up faster. It would be nice to see a sustained 45 mph with both batteries to see which one makes the motor heat up faster
we definitely have plans to do a heat test, unfortunately its winter here and we'll be waiting for spring to do it. The location we plan to do this is not accessible during winter season, we need a long steep consistent grade where we can do repeatable tests. :)
BTW heat is the biggest reason that we recommend 72v to customers. For most it's not an issue, but riders going up long steep inclines can certainly overheat the surron especially after power upgrades, 72v is the best way to battle this.
@@ChargedCycleWorks Id love to see the heat test cause I get the opposite results. Me & my friend have identical BAC 4000 setup but he has a 72v and I have 60v we weigh about the same, every time we go through sandy trails (deep sand will get your bike hot fast too) his 72v bike overheats and my 60v is always fine.
@@BigEBikes I suspect it's because he has the phase amps turned up higher than your 60v? If he is demanding more power than the bac4000 or the motor can give, it creates heat. What are your power and phase amp settings for both?
Question I just got ebmx bac 8000 and 72 v battery. Very fast. But the display only reads up to around 6,000 watts. Thought these were putting out close to 15,000 watts. Am I missing something? Why doesn’t the display show higher watts?
So is that 200amp discharge on the CHi Gladiator 60v at 12kw. Chi says it can discharge 400amps and is there a way you guys can do a test on the motor at a extended ride on the higher KW
The EBMX tunes on BAC4000 used in this test are set at 425 phase amps on the 12kw tune and on the 8.5kw tune 375. The BAC8000 tune cranks it up to 15kw and 600 phase amps and this is the next acceleration test we'll be doing. For 2022 Brians bike is going to run a BAC8000 with the 72v 15kw tune and Nathan's bike the BAC4000 at 60v so that we have some really good side-by-side comparisons of these two popular options.
I have a question for you I have a BAC 4000 with a 60 volt bypass battery if I was to buy say a 72 Volt or a 60 volt 12 KW what I need to do anything different with my controller or can I keep using my BAC 4000 and I will have more power then my stock 60 volt bypass battery
If you want more power you'll need to change the tune on the controller with a new battery and once you do this you are no longer compatible with the OEM battery. If you have for example the EBMX controller you can use their app to go back and forth between different tunes which allows you to use any battery you want to and it only takes a minute to load the correct tune for that battery.
GREAT QUESTION, Maybe, we need to do some more testing side-by-side 72v vs 60v of similar capacity batteries. A lot of people think a 60v 50ah battery has a longer range than a 72v 43ah battery because of the bigger ah number, but that's not an equal comparison. You must multiple the two numbers together to get the energy storage (watts) of the battery: 60*53=3180 72*43=3096 so in this case (EBMX batteries) the 60v 53ah contains 84 watts more than the 72v. However 72v runs a bit more efficient, there is probably no noticeable difference in range between them in this example.
@@Feintyyy 60v provides backwards compatibility with the OEM battery, 72v can achieve more power and torque but you really need a BAC8000 to unlock it. 72v also runs cooler for those that do big hill climbs and experience overheating. Range is much more about how far your right hand turns the throttle and the battery size. For example prior to upgrading to 50+ah batteries our average ride was about 15-20 miles. After upgrading to larger batteries we still kill them in about 20-25 miles but the big difference is that we can now ride super hard/fast and have a blast the entire time, range did not improve that much but the fun factor improved dramatically. Of course if we rode slow we could get 40ish miles, but that never happens ;)
@@ChargedCycleWorks @ Diego Banuelos thank you for your answers:) Would go with the BAC 4000 anyway. So as I see, the 60v battery with a bigger capacity would be the better choice here.
We hate to give dates and disappoint if they are missed, we are hoping before the end of the year, but until it's approved by Apple/Google and in the app stores please don't hold us to it :) I'd say that's the goal.
Do you do build orders to any specification? Are these bikes equipped for the road coming with all the lights, signals, break lights, hazards, etc? Is there a handle bar ignition lock? Thanks.
Im not sure about the 8.5kw on stock battery, thats not something these cells were made for... 60v * 110A (Rated max. discharge of 10A per cell) = 6600W = 6.6 Kw I also put my unbypassed battery to 7kw and it seems to worku untill it dosen't (starts to cut out) If you do that whitout a bms, well then you should have a spare battery at hand ;)
Great comment! EBMX is very aggressive with their tunes and you are correct some batteries handle 8.5 and others need to be turned down to 7 or 7.5 to not have a cut-out while riding. However, we HIGHLY recommend pairing a controller upgrade with an aftermarket battery designed for these higher power outputs.
I got ebmx 8000 tuned down to a 4k for now. I no longer have a button for my horn. Are there any aftermarket horn buttons once you use a controller like this?
Hey Peter, you can use this horn button (and light) regardless of controller/display. chargedcycleworks.com/products/horn-button-by-warp9-for-surron-segway?_pos=1&_psq=horn&_ss=e&_v=1.0
Hi I have bac 8000 and 72v/42ah lite speed battery and running on 14KW, I feel like the battery going down pretty fast so wanted to know what kw I should run
good question, not sure we have a perfect answer for it. Essentially the more power you use the faster you'll eat your battery. So, if you are a fast rider like we are, the best way to increase your range is to reduce your available power so that you cannot use it and deplete the battery faster. We've spent a lot of time on our 8.5kw tune and feel like it's got a great mix of power/range. Going up to 12 or 15kw will really let you chew through the battery fast!
At the moment there are no power upgrades for Talaria, but soon we will have BAC8000's for them and you'll have the choice to use your OEM battery or upgrade to a larger one. If you have an RST fork that is the very first thing to fix, it is horrible and a much higher priority than adding more power. We also prefer to upgrade wheels/tires first because once you have more power you'll be wishing you had more traction. For Talaria our preferred upgrade path is: Fork and riser bars, tires/wheels, power. You can see our Talaria Packages here: chargedcycleworks.com/collections/upgrade-packages
Hi I’m debating between the 72V ebmx vs chi battery (either 60 or 72v), what’s the approx range you can get from the ebmx 72V? Assuming going mainly 40mph street riding only as I live in nyc
We never ride on the street, we do it in the dirt :) The range between EBMX and Chi will be nearly identical as they are a similar ah battery. Here is a little hint on calculating how much energy is available in each battery Voltage * ah = watts. EBMX 60v * 53ah = 3180w, EBMX 72v * 42ah = 3024w which means the 60v should have slightly more range.
One more comment about your use case, 72v might be a better option for you to reduce heat in the motor at consistent high speeds. 72v lowers the amps and therefore lowers the heat in the motor. Usually when people overheat the surron it's non-stop high speed and long steep hills.
All of these tests had the stock motor. We recently moved to a new location and will begin doing these tests again with 8000, KO, 9000, KO motor, etc. But it's winter here and too much snow at the moment.
EBMX does 8.5kw but emb does 7kw. Technically the cells are only rated for 6.6kw so voltage sag on the ebmx tune is probably terrible, especially if you do long pulls
We have switched to Motocross bars on our Surrons because the MTB industry has forbidden us from selling MTB bars claiming they were not made for these bikes and not wanting to be liable for breaking and warranty. We are running prototype stems at the moment and will be selling direct mount stems next year made for MX bars. Plus coming from an MX background we tend to like the moto-bends better and they are available in a taller rise. The ProTapers in this video are Pastrana Bend and 4.75" tall. They feel amazing and we'll be selling them as soon as we have a stem that can hold them. As soon as we have more to share we will.
Maybe... we need to do some more testing side-by-side 72v vs 60v of similar capacity batteries. A lot of people think a 60v 53ah battery has a longer range than a 72v 43ah battery because of the bigger ah number, but that's not an equal comparison. You must multiple the two numbers together to get the energy storage (watts) of the battery: 60*53=3180 72*43=3096 so in this case (EBMX batteries) the 60v 53ah contains 84 watts more than the 72v. However 72v runs a bit more efficient, there is probably no noticeable difference in range between them in this example. We've been testing both and haven't found a "clear winner" yet.
3100 watt hours approximate on the 72v , 3800 watt hours approximate on the 60v again I see the clear winner as the 60v does have more range , plus I’ve tested with mates who have 72v , my 60v lasts longer !! , obviously 72v may be more efficient in ways , but when the police are chasing u range is the winner lol 😂
peak, if you tried to run a surron motor at 12kw continuous you would destroy it. These high power tunes are only meant for short bursts of power which is perfect for off-road riding where cannot use the full power continuously on such a small and light weight bike.
It Depends, on flat ground I don't see why not, but if you tried to do this up a long hill, it might cause overheating. There are so many variables. We are not road riders, so we don't really ride the surron flat out high speed for long periods of time. With all the riding we did in 2021 we never once had a bike overheat and cut out, but we know people who do struggle with this and the common theme is long steep hills. After the winter we have picked out a long steep hill where we plan to do heat tests with various setups as we know this can be a problem for some, and the more power you add to the surron the more likely you will encounter over-heating. This is the main reason we recommend 72v to some people, if you tell us you like to climb long steep hills we'll always recommend 72v which will output the same power at lower amps which produces less heat.
@@ChargedCycleWorks thank you for the detailed info. For my use, it'll be 90% one road and very little to no incline street. And since roads here aren't really slow, avg 40mph and up, it'll be nice to keep up w the cars. I'm guessing since my bone stock surron can keep up at 40mphs on the street, maybe with bac4000 and 60v60ah can be more then enough to keep up at 50mph? Without any over heating issue? Does this logic make sense to you?
We have many videos, all the stock acceleration tests were done in a previous video. The stock run for baseline was discussed at the 4min mark, as well as, the end. Stock was 6.98secs. Skip to 11:55 if you want to see the results vs stock
do you mean 72v? I've never heard of a 750v bike? Is that a brand or something? At the moment these work with Surron/Segway in either 60v or 72v. Work is being done to make them compatible with the Talaria, but not ready yet.
None of these bikes (without mods) are capable of 60mph. We test every bike configuration on the exact same fixed course so that we are testing with 100% consistency and the time can be compared across the board on every single run. In the car world this would be the 1/4 mile run test. From there you can calculate percentages to get an accurate idea of how much faster (or slower) each bike or bolt on part affects each bike. Please see full details here: chargedcycleworks.com/pages/acceleration-testing
@@ChargedCycleWorks thanks for the reply, that helps me understand your methodology a bit better. I am still a bit confused though. In all your tests you show a "time". But what does that time mean. Is it a 0-40 mph test? You must be testing each configuration's acceleration from 0-something right? I don't see on the site what the range is either?
@@vapedragon983 He starts in the same place and stops the clock at the end of the driveway every time. Faster bikes cover the same distance in a shorter time period. The driveway distance is the fixed constant, much like a 1/4 mile drag race (but shorter).
This is why I will not be buying a BAC controller. This silly business of not being able to change the settings in your controller is absolutely nonsense.
Not sure we follow you, perhaps because this video is now slightly outdated. If you purchase an EBMX BAC8000 they have an app that allows you to change/control all the settings you would like including: Voltage, Power KW, Amps, Regen, throttle, and more...
The problem with these, is when you do just a few upgrades, you're getting very close to a real dirt bike price. Then you eventually put enough in, that you could have had a much better bike, but now stuck with a chinese bike thats only worth 4-5k, and you put 9k into it lol.
The problem with your opinion, is many people who ride SurRon's either 1) already have a dirt bike and want something more playful and quieter with much less maintenance or 2) don't want a dirt bike because it limits where you can ride. We have both and love both for different riding styles. If you think they are only worth 4-5k after putting 9k into them, go check out the used prices to better inform yourself. Demand is sky-high and they are only getting more popular. They hold their value surprisingly well + you can part out and lose very little money.
@@ChargedCycleWorks There is no problem with my opinion; these bikes were only $3,600 less than a few years ago, now 3rd party places are asking almost $1,000 more. Better to just buy from Luna Cycles as they are still cheaper. All your arguments are invalidated when you look at the new bike Sur Ron & KTM have for $10k, both are also electric, but have much better platforms, power and suspension.
@@TJ-po9ol and our reviews of those new bikes will be out soon. Completely different bikes, with many of our customers owning both. We have the KTM Freeride E-XC and it's biggest limiting factors are 1) the weight at 245lbs and 2) the range at only 20 miles. Sure, it rides great, has excellent throttle response, and better suspension but my personal SurRon cost over $3k less, gets 40 miles per charge, goes just as fast and, perhaps more importantly, has an unmatched fun factor. The best part of all these new electric bikes? You can go purchase whichever one makes you happiest.
@@ChargedCycleWorks I rode a new stock Sur Ron & it was extremely underwhelming. They need at least $3,000 in battery/controller mods to be interesting. The Cake bike is better for power/weight/performance if you’re going to fully upgrade a Sur Ron, might as well buy the Cake.
@@TJ-po9ol lol, now you're suggesting an $11k Cake vs a ~$7k built SurRon?!? Yes, many people like to start with a reasonable bike at a reasonable price point and upgrade/personalize their bikes as they see fit. Hence the video, our testing, opinions, and the entire Charged Cycle Works website. If you're interested in the Cake, go buy one. They're great bikes and we have a page on our website to support them. I suggest test riding one first, as you'll most likely wish you had the $13k race version for it to be "interesting". As more Cake's hit the market, we'll add additional parts and accessories to make them even better.
Check out HI Powered Cycles novelty electric bike called the Typhoon Pro. 26x4 rear tire 27.5 in front. It uses a Hub drive but placed in the bottom bracket as it is a mid drive bike. I think it is the very best you can buy.
Google has some really good dis-information spread across the internet as well. Instead, we rely on real-world testing across *literally* thousands of very satisfied EBMX BAC4000 customers. 8.5kw is peak, very rarely used for long periods of time. Most customers ride this BAC4000 tune in level 3 or 4 out of 5 (6-7-ish KW). Customers that plan on running a BAC4000 at wide-open throttle are encouraged to purchase a stronger aftermarket battery that can handle the power better.
Love all the nerdy tests you share! It’s priceless when trying to make upgrade decisions, keep it up!
Thank you for this test. I just asked this question on fb group. This is exactly what I wanted to see
You are welcome!
Can't wait for this EBMX app!
Mahalo Nui Loa! I received my BAC 8000 controller! Power level 3 lifts my front tire with ease. It’s time for me to kill some hill climbs! Bac 8000 with a EBMX 60V battery is just insane power!!!!!!!
What 60v battery did you get? Looking into upgrading?
@@ajhenderson5849 EBMX 60V 52ah ⚡️ 🤙🏽
@@HI_ROLLA808 how you liking it so far bradda
@@StarWarsKrew power is amazing. The only criticism I have with the EBMX battery is there wiring fried because it’s so thin with the amount of power flowing. EBMX will tell you that it’s from water or dirt. I told them I don’t ride my bike in the house or in a gym. 😂 they recommend to upgrade the wiring to a bigger gauge. Which to me they should of done when manufacturing the battery at first. I had to find a person because the battery dealer I bought it from didn’t have anyone to do it. 🤦🏻♂️
Issue is resolved after finding someone months later…..but the other weak point was the battery LCD screen that got water in it and doesn’t show the battery percentage.
I didn’t want to go through the BS.
I recommend to upgrade the wiring and QS8 connectors. The ebmx battery screen display add some kind of silicone to keep rain or water out from going in.
Very close considering the higher ah possibilities in a 60v. Thanks for making well thought out informative videos about rons, but what is the intention with the intro music?
it served as a quick intro to see the bike being used, did you like it or think we should do that differently?
@@ChargedCycleWorks would change the music. You're showcasing and analyzing customizations on an almost beyond modern machine, with intro music from a bad 70's infomercial. It just clashes a little hard the instant you click a vid imo. (could be wrong sorry, just comparing to other content providers) Great vids, cheers.
It seems like a large 60v is the way to go. Still super fast but not to the point where its just too much. As long as it has the top speed, range, and acceleration and torque to rip wheelies that's a win.
The biggest reason to go to 72v is to lower the temperatures in the motor. If you do a lot of hill climbing or MX full speed riding the motors overheat easier with 60v.
Have you guys thought Of using a dragy for data . Super small and very accurate . You don’t have to push to start/ stop
In acceleration tests dragy would be very accurate and consistent. Also will graph info out g forces etc… with video overlay
Great recommendation, thanks John!
@@ChargedCycleWorks great vid… I’m tossed up… same setup as you (bac4000/12k tune)and wanting a chibattery but now that I saw how close the 72 and 60 were, I’d rather have more ah…
I’m assuming if I had a bac8000 that would make the differences bigger (maybe a future vid for you?). Mostly fast commuting (with daily wheelies) so level 1,2… with 3,4,5 on tap for the 90/10 street/dirt day. Curious, stock throttle?
@@eleon1143 ref doing to buy a Sur Ron & you seem to know what you're talking about. I've no idea but wanna fast, quick, off road capable bike with decent range. I'm not a speed demon, just want to cruise street & trails with random wheelies. No prob jumps or nothing
@@rconn4501 the stock Surron or even Taleria Sting, does great stock. A $20 battery bypass kit and you’ll get 45mph solid with wind in your face… that’s plenty to be happy with for price of the bike and minor upgrade. Little by little can modify it, but for commuting, and occasional dirt trails.. it’s totally fun. Battery upgrades usually need a controller as well ($1500 battery, 900 controller) but you can get by with just a battery. I think stock is 4000kw and a stock battery bypass ($20) gives you a slight bump (maybe 5000kw but at the cost of range.. or less mileage. If just a battery upgrade to the many 60v 60ah batteries out there will bump power up (tops is 7kw,) even more but gives you a lot more range. I didn’t throw phase amps in to not confuse you or myself with numbers but just keep YouTubing videos of diff battery options. It’s cheaper than experimenting on your bike :)
@@eleon1143 oh yeah it gets more complex lol. Thanks, I'll def have a Sur Ron next year and maybe upgrade it the following...
So with 72v you’re accelerating to a speed ab 30-60% higher and doing so 25% faster than stock. Very impressive
Yeah but if you want that best off-the-line acceleration, you need to use all your phase amps which is only used on your highest mode (level) regardless what you set the max kW to
As this is the main technical difference between the BAC4000 & BAC8000, it should be obvious that phase amps makes a difference lol
And then of course you have your field weakening setting, 0%, 5%, 10% are my go-to options. I only wish it was easier to change on the fly
The bike acceleration feels slow to me with 0% field weakening but then again the torque is highest without field weakening combined with a good amount of kW, same goes for these settings:
5% is a huge boost & makes the bike accelerate faster while still maintaining most of the torque that's lost
10% the ultimate 72v experience, if I'm not mistaken this is the 70+ mph setting if you combine it with a good amount of kW but torque is low at this point compared to 0%/5% field weakening. It feels considerably faster and will leave you with a smile, it's that good!
Keep in mind that -it's hard to keep track of how much these settings drains the battery it's probably best to do your own tests to find your range limits. Lets say 10% fw + 10kw can drain 10-20% of your battery very quickly if your maxing your throttle. Get the max or touring batteries from chi battery if you want the best experience
-You can increase your torque by opting for an upgraded 60v instead or getting a bigger sprocket, each with their own pros/cons
Great video 🤙🏽.
Can you do a heat test with the 60v chi vs the 72v? Since the 60v is pushing more amps to get the same KW it seems like it would heat up faster. It would be nice to see a sustained 45 mph with both batteries to see which one makes the motor heat up faster
we definitely have plans to do a heat test, unfortunately its winter here and we'll be waiting for spring to do it. The location we plan to do this is not accessible during winter season, we need a long steep consistent grade where we can do repeatable tests. :)
BTW heat is the biggest reason that we recommend 72v to customers. For most it's not an issue, but riders going up long steep inclines can certainly overheat the surron especially after power upgrades, 72v is the best way to battle this.
@@ChargedCycleWorks Id love to see the heat test cause I get the opposite results. Me & my friend have identical BAC 4000 setup but he has a 72v and I have 60v we weigh about the same, every time we go through sandy trails (deep sand will get your bike hot fast too) his 72v bike overheats and my 60v is always fine.
@@BigEBikes I suspect it's because he has the phase amps turned up higher than your 60v? If he is demanding more power than the bac4000 or the motor can give, it creates heat. What are your power and phase amp settings for both?
@@ChargedCycleWorks his phase amps are set to the same as mine but his flux weakening is higher than mine
Question I just got ebmx bac 8000 and 72 v battery. Very fast. But the display only reads up to around 6,000 watts. Thought these were putting out close to 15,000 watts. Am I missing something? Why doesn’t the display show higher watts?
hah! yeah this is a weird issue with the APT display, if you watch closely it loops and resets, you'll never see 15,000 on the display unfortunately
So is that 200amp discharge on the CHi Gladiator 60v at 12kw. Chi says it can discharge 400amps and is there a way you guys can do a test on the motor at a extended ride on the higher KW
The EBMX tunes on BAC4000 used in this test are set at 425 phase amps on the 12kw tune and on the 8.5kw tune 375. The BAC8000 tune cranks it up to 15kw and 600 phase amps and this is the next acceleration test we'll be doing. For 2022 Brians bike is going to run a BAC8000 with the 72v 15kw tune and Nathan's bike the BAC4000 at 60v so that we have some really good side-by-side comparisons of these two popular options.
@@ChargedCycleWorks 12,000W / 60V = 200A
You guys are running a ton of field weakening? It isn't really needed for this test
Very cool video,
I have a question about the display. Is it EBS V2 750C? If so, can i easily configure it with the BAC 4000?
I have a question for you I have a BAC 4000 with a 60 volt bypass battery if I was to buy say a 72 Volt or a 60 volt 12 KW what I need to do anything different with my controller or can I keep using my BAC 4000 and I will have more power then my stock 60 volt bypass battery
If you want more power you'll need to change the tune on the controller with a new battery and once you do this you are no longer compatible with the OEM battery. If you have for example the EBMX controller you can use their app to go back and forth between different tunes which allows you to use any battery you want to and it only takes a minute to load the correct tune for that battery.
72v BAC4000 12kw vs 60v BAC4000 12kw, 60v is clear winner since it gives more range right?
GREAT QUESTION, Maybe, we need to do some more testing side-by-side 72v vs 60v of similar capacity batteries. A lot of people think a 60v 50ah battery has a longer range than a 72v 43ah battery because of the bigger ah number, but that's not an equal comparison. You must multiple the two numbers together to get the energy storage (watts) of the battery: 60*53=3180 72*43=3096 so in this case (EBMX batteries) the 60v 53ah contains 84 watts more than the 72v. However 72v runs a bit more efficient, there is probably no noticeable difference in range between them in this example.
@@ChargedCycleWorks also thinking about buying 60v bac4000 over the 72v, which would u recommend? (wheelies, range)
@@Feintyyy got this setup and I love it, I went with 60v cause it’s what the bike comes with and didn’t see any real plus to go 72v, personally
@@Feintyyy 60v provides backwards compatibility with the OEM battery, 72v can achieve more power and torque but you really need a BAC8000 to unlock it. 72v also runs cooler for those that do big hill climbs and experience overheating. Range is much more about how far your right hand turns the throttle and the battery size. For example prior to upgrading to 50+ah batteries our average ride was about 15-20 miles. After upgrading to larger batteries we still kill them in about 20-25 miles but the big difference is that we can now ride super hard/fast and have a blast the entire time, range did not improve that much but the fun factor improved dramatically. Of course if we rode slow we could get 40ish miles, but that never happens ;)
@@ChargedCycleWorks @
Diego Banuelos thank you for your answers:)
Would go with the BAC 4000 anyway. So as I see, the 60v battery with a bigger capacity would be the better choice here.
When's that app coming out? That'd make a nice Xmas present 😉
We hate to give dates and disappoint if they are missed, we are hoping before the end of the year, but until it's approved by Apple/Google and in the app stores please don't hold us to it :) I'd say that's the goal.
@@ChargedCycleWorks I don't expect anything on time anymore, I'm just happy if it comes to fruition! 🤙
Do you do build orders to any specification? Are these bikes equipped for the road coming with all the lights, signals, break lights, hazards, etc? Is there a handle bar ignition lock? Thanks.
The street legal surrons are not imported into America. We have many custom built bikes on our website: chargedcycleworks.com/
Im not sure about the 8.5kw on stock battery, thats not something these cells were made for... 60v * 110A (Rated max. discharge of 10A per cell) = 6600W = 6.6 Kw I also put my unbypassed battery to 7kw and it seems to worku untill it dosen't (starts to cut out) If you do that whitout a bms, well then you should have a spare battery at hand ;)
Great comment! EBMX is very aggressive with their tunes and you are correct some batteries handle 8.5 and others need to be turned down to 7 or 7.5 to not have a cut-out while riding. However, we HIGHLY recommend pairing a controller upgrade with an aftermarket battery designed for these higher power outputs.
Is there a best tuned controller company and ones to stay away from? I see ebmx, Motoclops, asi. Anyone have Info on these or others ?
I got ebmx 8000 tuned down to a 4k for now. I no longer have a button for my horn. Are there any aftermarket horn buttons once you use a controller like this?
Hey Peter, you can use this horn button (and light) regardless of controller/display. chargedcycleworks.com/products/horn-button-by-warp9-for-surron-segway?_pos=1&_psq=horn&_ss=e&_v=1.0
I pretty much get the same results when I race my 72v friends.
Hi I have bac 8000 and 72v/42ah lite speed battery and running on 14KW, I feel like the battery going down pretty fast so wanted to know what kw I should run
good question, not sure we have a perfect answer for it. Essentially the more power you use the faster you'll eat your battery. So, if you are a fast rider like we are, the best way to increase your range is to reduce your available power so that you cannot use it and deplete the battery faster. We've spent a lot of time on our 8.5kw tune and feel like it's got a great mix of power/range. Going up to 12 or 15kw will really let you chew through the battery fast!
Hi mate so what would be the best uo grade to do on my talaria bac 8000 plus a 72v battery? Or could I run stock and get good Proformance to ? Thanks
At the moment there are no power upgrades for Talaria, but soon we will have BAC8000's for them and you'll have the choice to use your OEM battery or upgrade to a larger one. If you have an RST fork that is the very first thing to fix, it is horrible and a much higher priority than adding more power. We also prefer to upgrade wheels/tires first because once you have more power you'll be wishing you had more traction. For Talaria our preferred upgrade path is: Fork and riser bars, tires/wheels, power. You can see our Talaria Packages here: chargedcycleworks.com/collections/upgrade-packages
@@ChargedCycleWorks thanks mate for the information
Hi I’m debating between the 72V ebmx vs chi battery (either 60 or 72v), what’s the approx range you can get from the ebmx 72V? Assuming going mainly 40mph street riding only as I live in nyc
We never ride on the street, we do it in the dirt :) The range between EBMX and Chi will be nearly identical as they are a similar ah battery. Here is a little hint on calculating how much energy is available in each battery Voltage * ah = watts. EBMX 60v * 53ah = 3180w, EBMX 72v * 42ah = 3024w which means the 60v should have slightly more range.
One more comment about your use case, 72v might be a better option for you to reduce heat in the motor at consistent high speeds. 72v lowers the amps and therefore lowers the heat in the motor. Usually when people overheat the surron it's non-stop high speed and long steep hills.
What motor are you using, is it a stock motor?
All of these tests had the stock motor. We recently moved to a new location and will begin doing these tests again with 8000, KO, 9000, KO motor, etc. But it's winter here and too much snow at the moment.
@@ChargedCycleWorks Thanks for the reply, Ive just purchased a surron and still in the modification research stage, I'll look forward to the videos!
my 72 42ah battery wont fit all the way down in so now my lid wont close HELP!!
We don't see you as a customer but happy to help. Send a message to the live chat on our website.
Isn’t max power w/ stock battery (bypassed) and a Bac4000 7kw?
8.5kw bypassed
EBMX does 8.5kw but emb does 7kw. Technically the cells are only rated for 6.6kw so voltage sag on the ebmx tune is probably terrible, especially if you do long pulls
What handlebars do you have on this bike
We have switched to Motocross bars on our Surrons because the MTB industry has forbidden us from selling MTB bars claiming they were not made for these bikes and not wanting to be liable for breaking and warranty. We are running prototype stems at the moment and will be selling direct mount stems next year made for MX bars. Plus coming from an MX background we tend to like the moto-bends better and they are available in a taller rise. The ProTapers in this video are Pastrana Bend and 4.75" tall. They feel amazing and we'll be selling them as soon as we have a stem that can hold them. As soon as we have more to share we will.
I can't understand why you're not breaking over 50mph with that.
Something seems wrong.
Because the runway is not long enough to hit top speed. If we kept going until top speed was hit then we would easily break 50.
but the 60 v has more range so I know the clear winner here
Maybe... we need to do some more testing side-by-side 72v vs 60v of similar capacity batteries. A lot of people think a 60v 53ah battery has a longer range than a 72v 43ah battery because of the bigger ah number, but that's not an equal comparison. You must multiple the two numbers together to get the energy storage (watts) of the battery: 60*53=3180 72*43=3096 so in this case (EBMX batteries) the 60v 53ah contains 84 watts more than the 72v. However 72v runs a bit more efficient, there is probably no noticeable difference in range between them in this example. We've been testing both and haven't found a "clear winner" yet.
3100 watt hours approximate on the 72v , 3800 watt hours approximate on the 60v again I see the clear winner as the 60v does have more range , plus I’ve tested with mates who have 72v , my 60v lasts longer !! , obviously 72v may be more efficient in ways , but when the police are chasing u range is the winner lol 😂
Can u recommend anywhere to buy these bikes?
For 2021 Luna is exclusive dealer for the USA, in 2022 that will change.
Is that 12kw peak or continuous?
peak, if you tried to run a surron motor at 12kw continuous you would destroy it. These high power tunes are only meant for short bursts of power which is perfect for off-road riding where cannot use the full power continuously on such a small and light weight bike.
Can chi60v do 40-50mph constant without over heating?
It Depends, on flat ground I don't see why not, but if you tried to do this up a long hill, it might cause overheating. There are so many variables. We are not road riders, so we don't really ride the surron flat out high speed for long periods of time. With all the riding we did in 2021 we never once had a bike overheat and cut out, but we know people who do struggle with this and the common theme is long steep hills. After the winter we have picked out a long steep hill where we plan to do heat tests with various setups as we know this can be a problem for some, and the more power you add to the surron the more likely you will encounter over-heating. This is the main reason we recommend 72v to some people, if you tell us you like to climb long steep hills we'll always recommend 72v which will output the same power at lower amps which produces less heat.
@@ChargedCycleWorks thank you for the detailed info. For my use, it'll be 90% one road and very little to no incline street. And since roads here aren't really slow, avg 40mph and up, it'll be nice to keep up w the cars. I'm guessing since my bone stock surron can keep up at 40mphs on the street, maybe with bac4000 and 60v60ah can be more then enough to keep up at 50mph? Without any over heating issue? Does this logic make sense to you?
why no stock run for baseline?
We have many videos, all the stock acceleration tests were done in a previous video. The stock run for baseline was discussed at the 4min mark, as well as, the end. Stock was 6.98secs. Skip to 11:55 if you want to see the results vs stock
Can this be added to a 750v ebike?
do you mean 72v? I've never heard of a 750v bike? Is that a brand or something? At the moment these work with Surron/Segway in either 60v or 72v. Work is being done to make them compatible with the Talaria, but not ready yet.
is this 0-60 mph?
None of these bikes (without mods) are capable of 60mph. We test every bike configuration on the exact same fixed course so that we are testing with 100% consistency and the time can be compared across the board on every single run. In the car world this would be the 1/4 mile run test. From there you can calculate percentages to get an accurate idea of how much faster (or slower) each bike or bolt on part affects each bike. Please see full details here: chargedcycleworks.com/pages/acceleration-testing
@@ChargedCycleWorks thanks for the reply, that helps me understand your methodology a bit better. I am still a bit confused though. In all your tests you show a "time". But what does that time mean. Is it a 0-40 mph test? You must be testing each configuration's acceleration from 0-something right? I don't see on the site what the range is either?
@@vapedragon983 He starts in the same place and stops the clock at the end of the driveway every time. Faster bikes cover the same distance in a shorter time period. The driveway distance is the fixed constant, much like a 1/4 mile drag race (but shorter).
This is why I will not be buying a BAC controller. This silly business of not being able to change the settings in your controller is absolutely nonsense.
Not sure we follow you, perhaps because this video is now slightly outdated. If you purchase an EBMX BAC8000 they have an app that allows you to change/control all the settings you would like including: Voltage, Power KW, Amps, Regen, throttle, and more...
8.5 kw I'm sure that battery died
Torp at 7500kw rips the knobbies off the tire for 20 feet….
The problem with these, is when you do just a few upgrades, you're getting very close to a real dirt bike price. Then you eventually put enough in, that you could have had a much better bike, but now stuck with a chinese bike thats only worth 4-5k, and you put 9k into it lol.
The problem with your opinion, is many people who ride SurRon's either 1) already have a dirt bike and want something more playful and quieter with much less maintenance or 2) don't want a dirt bike because it limits where you can ride. We have both and love both for different riding styles. If you think they are only worth 4-5k after putting 9k into them, go check out the used prices to better inform yourself. Demand is sky-high and they are only getting more popular. They hold their value surprisingly well + you can part out and lose very little money.
@@ChargedCycleWorks There is no problem with my opinion; these bikes were only $3,600 less than a few years ago, now 3rd party places are asking almost $1,000 more. Better to just buy from Luna Cycles as they are still cheaper. All your arguments are invalidated when you look at the new bike Sur Ron & KTM have for $10k, both are also electric, but have much better platforms, power and suspension.
@@TJ-po9ol and our reviews of those new bikes will be out soon. Completely different bikes, with many of our customers owning both. We have the KTM Freeride E-XC and it's biggest limiting factors are 1) the weight at 245lbs and 2) the range at only 20 miles. Sure, it rides great, has excellent throttle response, and better suspension but my personal SurRon cost over $3k less, gets 40 miles per charge, goes just as fast and, perhaps more importantly, has an unmatched fun factor. The best part of all these new electric bikes? You can go purchase whichever one makes you happiest.
@@ChargedCycleWorks I rode a new stock Sur Ron & it was extremely underwhelming. They need at least $3,000 in battery/controller mods to be interesting. The Cake bike is better for power/weight/performance if you’re going to fully upgrade a Sur Ron, might as well buy the Cake.
@@TJ-po9ol lol, now you're suggesting an $11k Cake vs a ~$7k built SurRon?!? Yes, many people like to start with a reasonable bike at a reasonable price point and upgrade/personalize their bikes as they see fit. Hence the video, our testing, opinions, and the entire Charged Cycle Works website.
If you're interested in the Cake, go buy one. They're great bikes and we have a page on our website to support them. I suggest test riding one first, as you'll most likely wish you had the $13k race version for it to be "interesting". As more Cake's hit the market, we'll add additional parts and accessories to make them even better.
Check out HI Powered Cycles novelty electric bike called the Typhoon Pro. 26x4 rear tire 27.5 in front. It uses a Hub drive but placed in the bottom bracket as it is a mid drive
bike. I think it is the very best you can buy.
If you would google the datashied of the original Surron Battery cells you will understand that 8.5kw is really shit and stupid ... 🙈🙈🙈🙈
Google has some really good dis-information spread across the internet as well. Instead, we rely on real-world testing across *literally* thousands of very satisfied EBMX BAC4000 customers. 8.5kw is peak, very rarely used for long periods of time. Most customers ride this BAC4000 tune in level 3 or 4 out of 5 (6-7-ish KW). Customers that plan on running a BAC4000 at wide-open throttle are encouraged to purchase a stronger aftermarket battery that can handle the power better.