Jonathan Blow Explains A Puzzle From "The Witness"
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- At a PlayStation event in San Francisco, Jonathan Blow walks us through one of the puzzles from his upcoming game The Witness. This is one of the early puzzles from the game-it gets much more complex from here, but this area gives a sense of the "puzzle vocabulary" of the game. The Witness will be out on PlayStation 4 sometime in the first half of 2014.
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I would pay good money to see Jonathan Blow explain all of The Witness.
He explained quite a bit to 'Giantbomb' and 'Adam ruins everything'
Just see the James burke's connection series and you pretty much got the witness
They are remastering Braid with addition of tons of developer commentary, maybe the same will come to The Witness at some point
I love how this game doesn't have any loading screens or lag when you transition to different environments, despite its impressive visuals. I wish other games would try to reach that milestone.
It's hard to get across the genius of this game without giving away stuff you should be working out for yourself, but this game is to line puzzles what Fez is to switching dimensions, or what Portal is to shooting portals.
+Green Is Not A Creative Colour The puzzle design is genius, I can't argue with that. But it could've done with an overarching story-ish thing. not a directional story, but finding out more about what the island is about and why you're there. Instead, you get some, what I suppose is meant to be intellectually stimulating, videos and audiologs.
+mrBorkD I have heard this a lot, it seems people were really expecting some sort of narrative for some reason. It's never supposed to have been an adventure game.
+mrBorkD I see what you mean about the videos and quotes, but they really are all relevant, and very well selected. Each one could be the thought that inspires you to you solve one of the puzzles, and the video you get after going through to the secret credits sequence puts the island in all the context it really needs. It's a construct designed to teach the player ways of thinking that help them solve puzzles, and they are all as applicable to real world problems as they are to the ones in the game. Does it need more narrative than that?
Green Is Not A Creative Colour It's way too cryptic to be possibly useful to any specific puzzle. If you wish to change my mind, please provide examples, as I might just be an idiot, but I haven't found a good link, so please help me.
As for the secret ending... it seems to be about OCD, as far as I can tell? Not in the form of getting everything lined up and neat, but an urge to connect circles with lines(he taps circles a bunch, etc).
The audiologs and videos don't go against the game by any means, but you're still left with no idea what the island is about. Or a vague idea, that could be one possibility of many... Since you get barely any clues, if any at all.
That first thing, I may well do! If I do I'll link you to it. I don't know if everything lines up specifically, the ways of thinking the quotes describe are all relatively generic, but are all things that people may not do when playing through a game. Some of them relate the history of thinking, some are about science and philosophy, some are more specific to puzzles, about changing your perspective, walking away from a problem for a bit, or not neglecting small details. The videos are not only relevant (patience, perseverance, science, game design), but also contain awesome puzzles of their own!
What I took home from the secret ending was simply that the lessons I had learned should be carried through to the real world, that I should pester Blow for a VR update, and that there were still more puzzles to be solved. Touching the lines in the end was just a joke I think, knowing that players would be seeing the lines everywhere as they did with Tetris back in the day. What if the purpose of the island were just to teach lessons in logic in such a way that to learn them would actually make the player a smarter thinker in real life? Wouldn't that be purpose enough?
My big question is, why do you feel this particular game needs a narrative? Do puzzle games need narratives? Or is that just a trapping to get people who wouldn't otherwise engage with puzzle games to play them? Would as many people have played Portal if it hadn't had the narrative? I think a lot of people found themselves enjoying the puzzle mechanics of Portal after only playing it for what they'd heard of the story. From what Jonathan Blow has said I think The Witness is a counter to that, trying to get the players to enjoy progressing though the puzzles for the sake of it, for that eureka moment where things finally click, and I found everything in the game pointed in that direction.
see this puzzle is a great way to show how good gamedesign should work! NO FUCKING TEXTBOXES ALL OVER THE PLACE! but learning by trying and the game should give you subtle hints and not overflow the screen with tutorial text and shit! many modern games forgot that sadly!
Man, I didn't get how the black/white puzzles ACTUALLY worked until I came across a puzzle with a third color. I thought they were gates - as in, any time a black and white square sit next to each other, you need to split between them. If you'll notice, that rule works fine for the set of eight or so panels there, but I'd occasionally come across a panel with black and white squares that never touched, and I couldn't figure them out (they had other elements that I didn't fully understand, so I couldn't properly test it out).
Honestly, I bought The Witness because I liked some of Jon's videos on programming, and I've been following Handmade Hero, the creator of which did a little bit of work on The Witness. I almost didn't buy it even so, since $40 feels like a lot for a puzzle game, but it's definitely worth it. This game is amazing.
It is amazing. It's my fav puzzle game of all time and I'd happily pay a normal RRP for games for it.
Yes, I came to the same conclusion: that you need to "split" white-black pairs like gates! I went through these panels, then really got frustrated at the next puzzle because my assumption was wrong. But what a delight when I finally figured it out!
I wonder why they changed the color of these puzzles from magenta to blue
i mean it just kinda looks better tbh
Awesome! But that's a racist puzzle.
+lachiripiolca Yea. This puzzle needs a trigger warning.
So this is the wall that Donald Trump has been proposing??
lachiripiolca what u expect? its creator is extremely racist
😂😂😂
@@qoaa He's not but ok
I have completed the witness 4 times and until the 3rd time I didn't understand the Tetris marsh puzzles
It took me a second time. Once I figured out how it worked, it was still very hard to solve the puzzle because you have to connect the pieces in such weird ways you never would have thought of with pieces on the complete opposite sides of the puzzle.
I could watch a whole Let's Play by Johnatan Blow himself and listen to him do Dev. Commentary about every single corner of the island, I believe it would be worth gold.
I hope more devs realise that you can make a more beautiful game if you leave photo-realism to one side
Last puzzle:
Up right up up right up right down down left down right down exit.
That's right.
*now finish the bunker*
Fortunately I was never forced to be this close to a TV.
I would worry more about my eyes then anything else being so close to a TV.
this was weird when i saw it back at the conference but its appealing more as i understand how it works and even more with the puzzles, i love puzzle games.
So it's Myst meets Android passwords?
I'm looking forward to this. But you're comment is really clever.
Graham Kristensen you are very fun
+Graham Kristensen I don't understand this game. Who cares about 2d puzzles?
Reuben Ahmed
Loads of people.
Like me.
I do too a little bit ,but the presentation of this game is strange. seems like the actual game (2d puzzles) should just be a flash game.
I love jonathan blow, he's such a nice man and i think i'm the kind of person his games are aimed at, i fee like i understand the subtlety and meaning to his work.
This game looks great :D
I agree, the Myst series of games give you beautiful worlds to explore and the puzzles are integral to the worlds themselves. This games puzzles seem to have no correlation to the world at all, I hope I'm wrong as it looks lush otherwise.
jonathan is such a nice person!
The witness is a game for hardcore puzzle lovers
Love this idea, and the world looks beautiful. The last one is much easier than it looks (UP RIGHT UP UP RIGHT UP RIGHT DOWN DOWN LEFT DOWN RIGHT DOWN DOWN)
La ultima persona que me esperaría encontrarme aquí la verdad...
I know I'm here late, but I'd just like to point out how this game does a poor job of explaining things to the player.
A lot of people praise the game for being able to teach you without teaching, but it only works some of the time.
When I did these puzzles, I thought the rule was "At some point your line must go above the white squares and below the black squares". In this small set of panels, the first 6 can be completed with that mindset. The problem with The Witness is that it assumes that you can think the same way the developers do. This could (and sometimes should) mean that a player will get stuck until they figure out what the game wants. But what if there's another way you can solve a puzzle? Then the player won't know the correct rules for these puzzles, but won't learn the correct rules because the introductory puzzles have already been completed.
This says 2 things to me:
1. There wasn't enough play-testing for the developers to notice this.
2. Letting players figure things out on their own can go very wrong, especially when you're dealing with abstract rules and concepts.
I've seen people declare this game a masterpiece, saying it's one of the best puzzle games they've ever played. This was not my experience. Some parts of the game (symmetry island, the orchard, the castle area, the Sun temple, most of the shadow forest) were REALLY good. But then you have the Treehouse, an area that is pretty tedious to complete, or the Marsh area that has you wait 2 minutes for a platform to move across a 2-foot gap. Heck, even the Orchards has some problems. The RUclipsr SuperBunnyHop was stuck on the Orchard puzzles for a while, because it's an area you can access before the game ever gets you to focus on elements in the environment to solve the panels. He's not stupid, the game just wasn't made to fit the open-world, teaching without teaching structure.
The Witness isn't very good, but it isn't very bad. It is only okay. The highest I'd put this game is at a 6/10.
I guess the people who really liked this game were lucky enough to understand the rules. Because sometimes it IS luck on whether or not you'll understand the right rules from poorly designed puzzles.
Let's look back at the Black and White squares. All the game need to do was to switch the colors around for two panels, and the problem I had would go away.
This is the most conflicted I've ever felt about a game, because it's both really smart and ridiculously stupid.
What's the problem with first 6 puzzles being unclear? that's what the 7th is for. It's all tutorial puzzles, afterall. To be fair, this game is all tutorial, but that's besides the point. The reason why bridges in the Marsh and in some other places things move so slow is because of the environmental puzzles, so while it's annoying, it's integral for full completion of the game. But I agree with you that sometimes this game is too unclear and outright confusing
@@darkdwarf007 The problem with the 7th is the puzzle you see just getting to these tutorial puzzles. On your way out of the opening garden, you'll come across a panel with a puzzle too difficult to solve. This is of course meant to teach the player that if something is too difficult, you can just go do something else. You don't know the rules to this puzzle, so you skip. Immediately afterwards are the panels that teach you these rules. You do the first 6 and you think that you're meant to go above the white and below the black. You'll see the 7th and find it's too difficult. So do you skip it, do you just try to brute force it? You just learnt the rules, this is just a much trickier version, right? So even though I can see what the purpose of this 7th one is, It might not succeed for players.
Also, for waiting 2 minutes in the Marsh, having an environmental puzzle doesn't excuse it. This is a platform you're going to go across several times, it's extremely tedious. Why couldn't this just be a walkway? Almost every other environment puzzle in the game is just out in the open, so why have this annoying platform for this one part of the game? In fact, after beating this game I (and others online) started seeing lines everywhere in real life. I'd look at railing along my staircase and think "I need to draw a line across that". The game gets you to see these lines everywhere, it doesn't need a platform for you to see them. Especially since you're likely to have completed other areas before the Marsh.
LOL
Git gud, scrub...
ruclips.net/video/L9zeQMh2y0o/видео.htmlm04s
Clearly, you don't know how to 180 no scope _The Witness._ Quit your bitching, lame ass.
This guy is my role model. I love him so much, he's so cool!
It's like graph theory :)
Except many of the puzzles aren't self-contained - many of that have to do with the environment around them
This is such a clever parser idea for reducing rich, complex puzzles to meaningful, knowable input.
So if the game doesn't tell you how the puzzles work, what the hell does the tutorial tell you?
More difficult than the first puzzle outside the training area? Surely not?!
Apparently the first puzzles are just sort of to get you comfortable with the "puzzle language", and then as the game progresses you have to look to the environment for answers.
Hope this has a great soothing soundtrack, something I trust Blow to give us thinking back to Braid. Cannot wait to wander about this island :)
Wow, those puzzles look like Go to me! My dad and I used to play Go...
It's so pretty O_O
I. LOVE. IT. Something tells me theres gonna be a surprise at the end? hmmm
Wait, how did he zoom out? 5:26
Its the first puzzle you encounter after tutorial. Maybe it's integrated differently later on. Sounds like a question a game critic would answer.
i think they said that you can turn it off for games that don't need it... we'll see ^_^
I figured out how to solve the last one :)
Holy Fucking Shit it has COLOR it's new it's fresh it's the next best thing in Gaming.
its about the puzzels you dipshit
SuperHached
Someone is out of touch to not get it.
sonamyfan666 You're aiming at the games being all "gritty". Colourful games are the games that actually look a lot better in HD. I didn't really care about HD untill I saw Skyward Sword being run through an emulator in 1080p.
PauLtus B That can be argued against I've seen and played a few that were on the less colorful side that looked nice.
sonamyfan666 Sure. But I've always found that that made the biggest difference.
It likely gives you the basic controls and button inputs.
sjonathan, you just seperate the blacks from the whites. :)
Give this game to Egoraptor. See how long it takes him to figure out the pattern.
So, I'm just watching an interview with Blow where he says that his game contains non-verbal dialogue, and I was questioning whether or not that was just a fancy way of saying pedagogical, so I watched this video to see whether this was the case, and I've concluded that, although teaching you what the puzzle's mechanics are is part of this dialogue, it is not all of it. There were at least a few exceptions within this one section of puzzles: the fact that you can re-try the puzzle after you've completed it, the cube free of white and black in that one puzzle he mentioned, and the fact that there are actually three disjoint groups in the final puzzle he left as an exercise. The second puzzle on the other hand was very pedagogical, since there are other conclusions of the mechanics of the puzzles you could have made if you solved the first first time.
I've run out of puzzle games to play. Played the Witness 3 times , I want the excitement of a completely new game with unknown solutions. I play portal 2 workshop maps to scratch the itch, but I'm sort of getting a little bit bored with Portal. Wish I could find something new and exciting.
LOCK in dreams in ps4
This guy is a genius
Puzzle island.
This looks excellent! I currently have very little reason to get a PS4, but this is a good start!
It will also be on PC.
So don't buy a PS4.
PauLtus B Sly 5 or KH3 would be two more reasons... though from the look of things, that won't be enough to consider a purchase either...
ShadwSonic Well there are very nice things for PS4, although it seems most people buy it blindly, with no exclusive games in mind. Sony seems to have gotten a hand on the dumb underage CoD generation. But that's probably the most unjust reason I dislike Sony. But I really dislike Sony.
+ShadwSonic coming out in january for PC and PS4 simultaneously
So did you get the game? Have you got a PS4?
I hope not all the puzzles are completely disconnected from the environment... otherwise, why build an island with scenery?
Shannon Carey lol you hit that one right on the head
i'm watching this on mute. in jblo games any instructions are a spoiler as far as im concerned
Loving the puzzle, very apartheid.
Took me a few moments to realize what the hell is that blue dot on screen. This light from a controller can get really annoying.
You play 3ft away from your TV??? LOL
Try harder, seriously...
Looks interesting
I hope the puzzles get more difficult than what he was showing. The game looks amazing though; I'm glad the puzzles are in a standardized format for the most part, it seems like, and not like the old Myst style of being deliberately obtuse with how things are meant to work.
sometimes yeah. I'm still getting a PS4 so I dont need to 'try' anything. Have you been in a dorm room before, where you live with other people? Sometimes you play pretty close to the tv, or in the dark.
Marc, I must say you are very wrong (at least from what information I gathered about the game). Blow said many times that you will be able to incrementally understand the language used by these "maze" puzzles as you explore and observe the world around you (this is also why, as a title, "the witness" makes a lot of sense). Personally, I would have liked to see those panels a little better integrated with their environment but perhaps there's a reason to that as well.
are all the puzzles just line puzzles?
that's racist!
GREAT STILL DON'T GET IT
I know. I'm just worried about playing in the dark, in a college dorm room, where I'm not that far from a TV either
The fact that I can see the blue DS4 light in the reflection is kind of annoying
This game with Oculus Rift will be incredible!
The graphics kinda reminds me of Viva Pinata.
Well he is standing about 3 ft away from what looks to be a 60 inch TV.
the colours are so impossibly beautiful and vibrant
most puzzles in the game involve careful observation of the environment
It's so easy....
I definitely get that vibe from it, which is great. Although, the Myst guys are Kickstarting their own Myst-esque game for this generation, too!
the guy explaining kinda sounds like Charlie Day
This is such a fucking good idea. I'm so excited.
Can't spoil it.
I can't no think like am puzzle man solve things good do
it is the first puzzle after the tutorial.....not gonna be that difficult.
Looks interesting, though I believe I'll get lost and frustrated halfway through
Pretty much sure I solved it
I'm actually now interested in this, awesome idea for a puzzle game.
GSHRFLGN... WHAT!?
*Immediately looks it up & backs $100*
This game looks inovating as hell! It's one of my reasons to buy a ps4 some day :)
Damn, 2 years waiting since I wrote that comment, and it remains unreleased :/
+LALFAST Just a few more weeks man, stay strong
+NeoVincent one week. and a price $40
No....you're being over-sensitive.
It's MYST for the modern age. I'm excited.
Whoa.....
PS4 baby!
Day one.
pretty cool
damn ... cant wait for this game
i solved it
Such an amazing looking game.
Great game
So delicious!
me want
I voted your comment down, on account of you representing everything that's wrong with people on the internet.
I'm so looking forward to this game.
The MYST of this generation, maybe?
I had thought that panels represented something in the world that you would have to find some symbology in. This is very underwhelming.
I agree, the puzzles look kind of interesting, but what's the point of such a beautiful and detailed island when it just act as the hub-world? I hope the island world plays some sort of role further in the game..?
+ekoms108 Oh boy how wrong you were...
Lol underrated comment
Nameguy, Hey man, I played and 100% this game. Yes there were puzzles that related alot to the environment. I think it should have won at least one VGA. But ya know, I solved every single secret puzzle in this game. And solving the final secret puzzle was a big moment for me. And I thought there would be a secret third ending to the game. BUT THERE WAS NOTHING. I sat around for an hour and half listening to the history of Easter eggs in art to get the last puzzle, thinking that this was really Easter Egg Insland, and there would be one mystery in this to rule them all. And what was I left with? NOTHING!
ekoms108 I'd heard multiple interviews of the creator's take on videogames he's not very fond of stories anymore even though he had a nice twitst in Braid, that's why I wasn't expecting anything, the reward was just solving the puzzles for me
So the world is just a glorified menu?
Watched in 2 speed because they are as lazy with talking as I am with listening. Game is getting high reviews but the puzzles look stupid...
It a puzzle game... If the puzzles look stupid you probably don't like the genre...?
Eh, I do like the genre, but there are free puzzle games out there. What if i made this same game for $100, would you buy it? $200? Do you get the point
+Reuben Ahmed I've so far sank 3 hours into the game and have barely scratched the surface of what it has to offer. This puzzle language that they have developed is deceptively simple. Every panel of every room of every area offers some sort of new development on what you have learned. It all builds upon itself and is incredibly satisfying. Combine that with beautiful scenery, sound design, and level design, and you're left with a fantastic experience. I've already received my money's worth, and considering I have over 600 more puzzles to look forward to means it was money well spent.
+sparecactus ok, just saying i'm sure i'm not the only one asking the question
+Reuben Ahmed You literally just watched the tutorial
/bored to death
Then why are you watching?
Because noone before me took the time to warn me.
/r/LikingYourOwnComments
i don't see nothing good but a boring ass gay game smh
I'd like to see you play it and watch your brain melt. SMH
So games have sexual orientations now...
+Max zurita
Go back to CoD kid.
He sounds like an overly whiny teenage neogaffer... They tend to get upset over nothing.
nice game up until the time trial part at the end