I will say this is the best of the three new routes, and might even go as far as to say it’s one of the best routes in general. I really like the wide variety of train types, considering we have high speed, commuter, freight, and light rail all in one. More routes like this please.
@@Grumpy_EnglishmanFrankfurt and Dresden (Riesa) are my top two routes in TSW. I enjoy Salzburg, Hamburg, Bremen, Left Rhine, Niddertalbahn, and Vorarlberg for their variety as well though - and I desperately wish Hamburg would get a nice refresh/timetable overhaul (even if they kept it in the current year given they don’t have the NSH trains).
The length of the tracks is still the biggest joke for me and really takes the fun out of the game. I really don't enjoy such short hops when I have all the WCML and ECML at my disposal in TS: Classic. There's no real sense of travel.
@@GreatEasternMainlineSpotsnah they could easily. Games such as ETS 2 have a big map plus the frame rate. Train sim can obviously expand massively however due to them being lazy they given us to Milton Keynes but making us pay the extra price and for the 390. Train sim classic is like 25 pounds and you could spend the same amount for train sim world +390 plus underground train with enhancement pack for the WCML.
@@GreatEasternMainlineSpots What I am saying is that the routes are outrageously short for the price DTG are now charging for them. Instead of being able to go all the way from Peterborough to York as you can on TS, you're being dropped off at Doncaster on TSW - it's just ridiculous. The TS equivalent for this route goes from Euston to Birmingham.
The WCML in my view is the worst of the three core routes in TSW5. Rivet games were part of the development of this route and it clearly shows. The inaccurate timetable for the Bakerloo Line, Lioness Line, LNWR and Avanti services brings the overall quality of the route down. Queens Park station for instance, should not be as quiet as it is. Then there are the lighting and scenery issues. The Class 350 usually runs 8 car services. They rarely run 4 car services on the WCML so the formations are not realistic. They should've made other varients of the 350 instead of just the 350/1. The section from Queens Park to Harrow and Wealdstone was copied and pasted from the Bakerloo line I suspect that DTG will improve the timetable of this route given the massive backlash. This route could've been a great route overall, but it was spoiled by DTG wanting to get it out the door for immediate earnings. This route was definitely rushed Since I have Xbox Gamepass, I got the route for free. If i didn’t have Xbox Gamepass, I wouldn’t have bought this route
With route hopping as a new feature, I wouldn't be surprised if DTG were to do the MKC - BNS portion in the future, with the class 221 and 730 as additional content. Could sell for £30.
I wouldn't put it past Dovetail if they actually did that. As for the Class 730, that would be a welcome addition to TSW anyway; the LNWR variant for WCML South and the WMR variant for the Cross City Line.
@@ADORIG_frright now that’s because there’s a WCML north in development which is set in the 80s from preston to carlisle, so i doubt we’ll be seeing an extension to birmingham any time soon
It is so obvious Rivet Games were involved in the development on this. The route maps, the timetable, the scenery, even there is literal Assets with the "Rivet Games" logo on it! (you can go to Hatch End station and peek through the window of the waiting room to see this.)
I really cant lie, this addon isn't all that bad, it only lacks the quality and route length as it only features London Euston To Milton Keynes Central which is quite disappointing, well what do you expect from dovetail. They could've at least made the class 377/2 appear on the Brighton mainline and layered services from East Croydon to Watford junction. Hence, they could at least have made a separate branch from East Croydon to Watford junction if you had owned the Brighton Mainline. They should've also given us the full Bakerloo line from Elephant and castle to Harrow and Wealdstone. The lack of the St Albans abbey branch is quite shocking as there are no trains going to it, not even ai services. Well I do remember the video you made reviewing the Bakerloo line and you did mention the lack of scenery between queens park to harrow and Wealdstone, well at least we have it, I have been looking forward to seeing this review finally coming. Great video👍
All that takes a very long time. They can't just add it in 5 minutes. The 377/2 on bml would have required every service to be reauthored and retested which is a huge amount of work since the tt is so big
And I've noticed at 7:21 timestamp that the number of coaches the Watford DC Class 710 has is completely wrong. In real life she's a 5 coach London Overground Class 710 service not 4.
With guard mode on the 350 if you do an all stops run its actually alright. The time it takes to check all the tickets is about the same time between stops and the train does get quite full. However the 323 guard mode is broken as the guard panel works incorrectly and the local door closes when you close the door.
The poor timetable really kills this. The underground and overground services running almost hourly is very off-putting. They always blame "performance", but if a modder can make BML run with 1800 services, the actual developers should have no issues. Or at least give us a choice if our hardware can run it.
That's a point. In TSW4, I had that BML timetable mod, and it came with a 12-car Class 700. As for the poor WCML timetable, it certainly won't help the route's reputation unless Dovetail or a modder improves it. Come to think of it, ECML - Peterborough to Doncaster has a 'reduced' timetable alongside the full one; DTG should have done the same thing for the WCML.
The best review. So many issues that should have been sorted before being released. On the GWR line there is a missing static 72 stock at Ealing Broadway. Even though I have the DLC it doesn't show but if you only have the GWR route and 72 stock installed with nothing else it shows in the platform.
The white coaches livery is an old one from when they transferred from virgin to AWC. Avanti had the front of the trains painted then slowly did the coaches to maintain running stock for services. This livery is now no longer seen as far as I am aware, I’ve travelled on these trains a lot of times and seen lots more and I’ve never seen that livery in person. It is outdated and makes sense not to be in the game.
I definitely recommend doing a follow up review on this one based on the improvements that have come from the Enhancement Pack and FAWX 2024 timetable that were released today. Or perhaps even a video focused on content provided by the likes of Fawx, Bescot, Jetwash, Sprattyheath, Laika etc and how these Modders have gone out of their way to improve these routes and advising your viewers which ones you would advise using :)
I won't have time to make a follow-up review this week, but I have at least downloaded the new EP and timetable. I've got a good first impression of it so far, and I'd go so far as to say that it puts Dovetail's default timetable to shame. Edit - Game crashed when I tried loading one of 390119's services (the 10:15 out of Milton Keynes), and now it's crashing before it can even get to the main menu when I try launching it from desktop.
Guess what Dovetail did for us PS4 players?. For the West Coast Mainline South they only gave us the Class 390 and the Class 350 and that's it.... Nothing else. But Hell us PS4 players we don't even get the 1972 Tube Stock, the Class 66, 377/2 Southern EMU, not even the Class 710🙄😒 Heck they could've done like what they did for the ECML add 2 separate timetables. A reduced and a full timetable. But they blame it on “performance issue's”🙄😒... And don't even get me started on the downloading process of TSW 5 versions of TSW 4 DLCs on consoles 🙄😒. And for the Catchart Remastered route, we don't even get the Class 350 or Class 390 AI services at Glasgow Central... And I've got ALL the British DLCs every single one
The worst part is the 377 is still in scenarios and on the thumbnail but what I think they should do is let ps4 players decide what layers they want to use seeing as the feature exists now
It's not dtg's fault the last gen consoles is really old and does not have the memory of power to run the game. Stop making it their problem which they have no control over. More and more companies are dropping support
yeah, it makes sense because you are on an 11 year old console. even DC 4260 himself says the game is massively held back due to the gen 8 consoles. its been 4 years since the PS5 dropped, upgrade.
You should’ve also mentioned that Rivet Games were part of the development of this route since it clearly shows with the overwhelming issues on this route. When I bought the deluxe edition of TSW 5, I expected this route to have a busier timetable with more activity considering this route includes London after all but NO this route feels like it takes place in the universe where Thanos snaps his fingers! WCML South still feels like the British equivalent of New York to Trenton mainly because of the short route length, the underwhelming timetable, the route being rushed in some places (thanks Rivet), the Class 390 Pendolino being sold separately in a similar manner as the Acela Express, the St Albans Abbey branch not being included in a similar manner of the Princeton Branch (or Dinky Shuttle), and lastly, London Euston being quiet like New York Penn Station when the NYT route was first released! I do like to drive the Class 350 and Class 390 on this route although the sounds are not good but there are sound mods to fix that, well at least for the 390 as the 350 sound mod isn’t ready yet!
fun fact from something i saw in the rsc discord, if you drag and drop the tsw5 pak files into tsw4 it will work completely normally. and show that there was no need for a tsw5
Hello DC 4260. I must agree that TSW5 was completely unnecessary. What it contains, it could be easily integrated into TSW4. However, I have to say I quite like this new route and the Pendolino as well. The class 390 is one of my favourite emu, at least when we are talking about british rails ( I know that this em had tons of problems in real life, but still...). Thanks for the great reviews. I'm a big fan of your channel and the content as well. You are my number one source when I want information about TSW routes. Keep up the good work. And sorry my lackluster english knowledge. Greetings from Hungary!
That's a pleasant surprise; I wasn't aware of anyone tuning in from Hungary. Incidentally, the only railway from your country that I really know anything about is Budapest Metro line M1.
@@DC4260Productions I would like to recommend you a video to watch on youtube, if you are intrested about Hungarian Railways: "The Rail Revolution That Never Was". The BDVmot and BVmot (which were mentioned in that video) are my favourite hungarian emus :D
And by the way I saw on my Instagram that next week unfortunately the Class 323 EMUs will be unfortunately withdrawing their services from the West Midlands services irl.
The version of the livery with plain white coaches and grey doors is no longer a thing and it hasnt been for some time. It was an interim for the VT - Avanti changeover. They managed to get them all fully painted in 2021 - 2022. So thats why it isnt seen in TSW5.
15:20 And I'm very disappointed to not hear the older Silverlink/early London Midland sounds ingame, along with no unrefurbished 390 interior despite AWC using it.
It's whatever dtg was able to record. Avanti specifically told dtg not to do the old interior. Did you want dtg to not listen and break the relations even more?
13:33 The reason why they haven’t dropped support for the “old-gen” is because (and they also said it themselves) is because a large proportion of the player base still uses the old generation (including me!)
I agreed with everything you said. The timetable is what kills it for me, I can't bring myself to drive on the DC line because of the lack of AI trains. I do enjoy driving on the main route, as I've found the class 350 and 390 to be quite good. Great video, keep up the good work.
It is not bad, well there is certainly room for improvement. I would have really have liked it to go all the way to Birmingham New Street, but knowing Dovetail..... Let's just hope the post release updates at least improve the route, if it doesn't make it totally better
The TT is a very big flaw. I could forgive everything else if we had a very busy TT but that is not the case. I'm happy DTG included both subclasses of the 390 instead of pulling what they did with the 700 and only include one, however I don't understand why they couldn't do the same for the 350! Although they did include the Dual-Voltage variant, I do not understand why they could not include the /2, /3 and /4 to allow for all services to be at least 8 car, as the other three all look the same (no shoes). I have a feeling this could be a reason to the lack of services, as there are already a lot of 4 car services in the TT. The audio is reused from the 380 because they recorded a 350 and used those sounds on the 380.
You made a good point about why is this game still being sold on PS4/Xbox One. Likely there are too many people still for whatever reason using these systems. However in my experience, this game should not be on consoles period. That includes the PS5/Xbox Series. I recently bought a fairly top of the line gaming PC and decided to try TSW5 on it. I also downloaded it on my Xbox Series X. On the Xbox, the frame rates remain the same since TSW3: jittery and inconsistent making for a jerky nauseating experience on any TOD4 route. Now compared to a modern gaming PC the frame rates remain mostly locked at 60fps (my preference) with the occasional (frequent?) loading pauses. The game is simply too unoptimized and requires a good PC to brute force this pig into running properly. It runs terribly on modern consoles so it must be even more atrocious on older ones. There should be a space for this game on consoles, but DTG are not the team that can pull it off.
If it only existed on consoles, the game wouldn't magically improve and use all the shiny new features so you would still end up unhappy. It would also cut off a huge amount of their profit so they might go out of business since consoles being most of the money coming in
@@DC4260Productions I really don't think so as well, it's hard to think of any advantages of playing it on a console over a PC unless you don't have one. You're unable to mod the game so you can only have the vanilla routes and trains, which especially detracts from the experience when playing on poorly made routes/trains without mods. Between that and a few other "features", it really feels like Dovetail are trying to provide a "casual" driving experience while milking customers, not fixing major bugs and monopolising the train simulator market. They really should have prioritised on making the WCML as good as can be rather than attempting to expand their audience with TSW Tycoon and TSW5VR, but stonks is probably more important to them.
@@potatoman451 Oh I agree if it was console exclusive in its current iteration, the game would still be awful. DTG don't know how to optimize for the platform. Now perhaps if it was a console only game they could have dumbed it down accordingly. I mean they had it right with TSW2 which could for the most part maintain a frame rate. It's the nonsense they did afterwards that doesn't play well with any console. Their real problem is either lack of knowledge, lack of talent, lack of testing, or simply under too much pressure to rush everything out unpolished to have it all come together nicely. But their current formula for whatever reason brings in enough to keep the lights on, so I guess more power to them to fleece and get away with it.
Honestly, I'd say they did the 350 justice, albeit you are entirely right that they should've done the /2s, /3s, and /4s - As a regular user of all of the 350 subclasses (as they uee all four on Liverpool to Birmingham services), there's very little difference between them all. They probably still would've avoided doing the /2, as those have 3+2 seating and severely run down furnishings from the London Midland days with very few updates, including basically still running in London Midland livery to comply with the licensing terms with LNWR, as apparently Avanti West Coast were really strict about what they could represent - Absolutely no traces of the original interiors from the Virgin days were allowed. The 390 is pretty good too, but I recommend downloading the Class 390 Sound Mod by ItsYa165 for the best experience, as the run sounds were pretty mediocre.
Try this out for your Frankfurt-Fulda review: There's a service for the 14 car ICE 1 at around 11:00 am which starts past a red signal and you can't even play the service.
The only ones that have lifts, but the lifts don't work, are stations from Queen's Park to Harrow & Wealdstone, because nobody bothered to change them since TSW2. The least they could do was put 'lift out of order'
I haven’t been able to drive the 390 yet as it keeps crashing the game but I have been enjoying the overground line as it’s a nice change of pace from the rest of the route
Just found out that the railway turntable on Hanau HBF on Frankfurt fulda can be operate and not just accessories. But I think as usual they forget polish it
I think a big issue is those who are still playing TSC have the sim so loaded with DLC now that it's pretty much expected now to have a route that is even if not long, at least contains plenty of traffic within a scenario. This is an area where TSW has improved over time but it's still too common to just spot the odd clone of what you're driving and of course the occasional 66 but not much else. As for passenger mode, I can't believe they haven't even implemented it properly. Waiting 30 minutes for a train at rush hour is frustrating and entirely holds back what should be a great mode. The series was doomed by having to share space with consoles, they may provide an acceptable experience but we know the issue is the need for brute force to run that the consoles can't provide. I guess without consoles though the project would have financially died off by now so swings and roundabouts. Of all the TSW's this is probably the biggest disappointment of them all so far due to the usual overpromise/underdeliver though with every problem from the past still very present. Still, good news about being able to get it all half price in February, just like every single year.
Honestly, I respect you for purchasing TSW5 to make constructive review. WCML is a buggy mess. After I watched DTG WCML livestream's feedback, and DTG forums went crazy, I decided to hold on my wallet until bugs and poor timetable are solved. Personally, I don't want to blame DTG developers because they are trying their best in DTG's intensive release schedule. But I do blame DTG"s executives and managers for releasing TSW in an intensive release schedule. What DTG needs are slow down the release schedule, HIRE more people to check the quality for every content, or reconsider about third-party partnership. (DTG needs to think about cutting ties with Rivet). By the way, if DTG were adding some game-play pack for WCML, they should make class 319. Because; A.) class 319 did ran on WCML until 2023 in London area, and 2024 in Manchester area. B.) I want to see some 80s EMU in TSW
There is a mod that removes the invisible walls for players and it makes the game so much better. Im curious to see JT's WCML Preston to Carlisle and how that compares to this.
the only problem with cutting the route at rugby is the fact that most avanti trains dont stop there as i have only ever been on a pendilino and stopped at rugby once , ive been on it like 5 times
Simple answer to why another annual new game: the new DTG owners demand a new game each year. Add in DTG's tendancy for 'routes by the numbers', it's not great. The route looks nice I guess, but not bundling in the 390 in with the route is a slap in the face. I've upgraded to TSW 5 for free, the only route that will be a day one purchase is Just Train's Preston-Carlisle. I'll pick up WCML in a future sale
something i do like about TSW5, it dosent kill my computer when i tab out. since i have a shit PC whenever i tabbed out of TSW4 it just froze. so i couldnt even shut down or leave TSW4. so i had to press CTRL+ALT+DEL, open up task manager from there, but i couldnt actually do anything on it, so i had to restart my computer, then cancel the restart to shut everything down, I dont have to do that now so thats somthing. Also, the 350 probably uses the same sounds as the 700 DC sounds, since dovetail used the 350 sounds for the 700
The unnecessarily empty Bakerlop and London Overground timetable is what killed the last bit of excitement I had for this route. If they can’t even make the mainline near London busy I don’t more what to expect anymore
Caroliner 1 and probably 2 as well were reskins of existing rolling stock, the 3 and 4 are at least new wagons, the flaws are £10 each!! And no new loco add ons like the class 60, 67, 68, 69, or 70 to name 5 examples
10 pounds is indeed unreasonable for these packs, and the fact that you don't have to buy them doesn't excuse the high price. I saw Skyhook tease Cargo Line 3 & 4 in a Facebook post, but I won't be making a video about them because they're not worth my time.
What they should do is make the GBRF 50's for freight/railtours or the EWS class 67, come to think of it the 67 would be easier as it apparently has the same prime mover as the 66 namely an EMD 710 series and we know skyhook can model a decent train
i think a 730 wouldve been a better train to make expensive, i think it would be better if they made it a backdated route (to 2016/17) and have VTWC and London Midland - as Virgin already have a license and LM isnt a thing anymore, it would also mean they would have a 378, which would compensate for the mid tier length (3 trains like i suggested is possible, look at SEHS.)
I use the Pendolinos nearly every day. The sounds are pretty good when accelerating out of stations but their iconic passing sounds are missing. With the liveries all pendolinos now have a full livery. However im quite annoyed that none of them have their nameplates. Aslo should have included the Pride livery and Climate Change livery (i have already made the former in the livery desinger).
Definitely think the pendolino has been underutilised been wanting this train for years but for a 30 minute drive isn’t worth it otherwise it’s a decent route
I hate that they removed save and upload from the camera mode. now i have to upload from the menu and that causes the game to crash for whatever reason.
The most annoying part of this is route and most disappointing, is the Class 390 sounds in the interior going full speed, is it doesn’t make a screaming sound and it’s essential to the class 390s experience here are a few others: ~First class should be at the front not the back -The pantograph should always be at the rear of the train -the acceleration rate is far to fast for a class 390 There the problems for The class 390. Another problem i encountered was the screen boards weren’t accurate either. Which spoils the realism… everything else I’m happy with though.
Why can't Dovetail fix all the glaring issues in their game instead of adding new layers onto it all the time? It's just disgusting how much of a monopoly DTG has on the train simulator market, especially when they are not letting the community create content that they would like in the simulator, at least without workarounds, and treating their customers terribly in the process. We simply can't let corporate greed take over an entire hobby. Even with TS Classic, I'd like the modernised South Wales Mainline as it's very close to my local route, but the amount of DLC it requires (often from companies that emulate DTG's business model) costs so much that you wouldn't half want to drive a Super Class 47 with a V12 sound mod along the route! 😂
As usual we're all very angry with DTG but everyone is buying and rebuying all the addons, parceled or not. That is why only 11 months ago we had TSW 3 and we're now up to 5. That's why the WCML South crashes on systems that were bought 2 weeks ago with 64GB RAM if it gets too foggy. Pathetic! Everything DTG has to be acquired on the high seas so they learn and we'll leave it at that.
This route was my breaking point, because as a ps4 player I literally got scammed; 2 trains out of 6 promised and it's still barely functional. This is quite literally a cyberpunk 2077 move but at least CD Projekt red had the audacity to refund ps4 players. Im done with dovetail, actual scammers.
the island of sodor if TSW5 made a bad quality and inaccuareted map : the IOS : HONHONHONHONHONHONHONHONHON >:) YOU RE IN HOT WWAATTEERR!!!!!!!!! DTG: AH FUC- moments later DTG got bankrupet
Those 390 recordings are pretty crap if I'm honest, even Armstrong Powerhouse did slightly better with their 390 sound pack. If they where recorded, they weren't recorded well and, if they where synthesized, then they weren't synthesized very well either, sorry DTG, I cannot commit.
I'd say the Class 20 is decent in terms of the modelling and sounds, but you only get one livery (Railfreight red stripe) and only the variant with headcode discs; the Domino headcode box wasn't included for some reason.
@@DC4260Productionsyeah I mean snagging it on cdkeys for 2 quid is def worth it. The sounds for the 390 aren’t great the traction motor fans / blowers are good but only turn on when in forward not just when you apply power
Shut up mate. (not DC 4260 himself!) He is giving constructive criticism to DTG. If you want to complain, then don’t watch this. It’s as simple as that.
![YoungBoy Never Broke Again - Missing Everything [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dTYeMZGzOzw/mqdefault.jpg)
The TSW5 review I've been waiting for!
I will say this is the best of the three new routes, and might even go as far as to say it’s one of the best routes in general. I really like the wide variety of train types, considering we have high speed, commuter, freight, and light rail all in one. More routes like this please.
Maybe to you but Frankfurt is far superior in every way .
Especially if u own the layers
@@Grumpy_EnglishmanFrankfurt and Dresden (Riesa) are my top two routes in TSW.
I enjoy Salzburg, Hamburg, Bremen, Left Rhine, Niddertalbahn, and Vorarlberg for their variety as well though - and I desperately wish Hamburg would get a nice refresh/timetable overhaul (even if they kept it in the current year given they don’t have the NSH trains).
The length of the tracks is still the biggest joke for me and really takes the fun out of the game. I really don't enjoy such short hops when I have all the WCML and ECML at my disposal in TS: Classic. There's no real sense of travel.
So what your saying is the whole WCML in tsw? Do u know that is impossible for tsw. The furthest it should have gone was rugby
@@GreatEasternMainlineSpotsnah they could easily. Games such as ETS 2 have a big map plus the frame rate. Train sim can obviously expand massively however due to them being lazy they given us to Milton Keynes but making us pay the extra price and for the 390. Train sim classic is like 25 pounds and you could spend the same amount for train sim world +390 plus underground train with enhancement pack for the WCML.
@@GreatEasternMainlineSpots
What I am saying is that the routes are outrageously short for the price DTG are now charging for them. Instead of being able to go all the way from Peterborough to York as you can on TS, you're being dropped off at Doncaster on TSW - it's just ridiculous. The TS equivalent for this route goes from Euston to Birmingham.
@@GreatEasternMainlineSpots it would have been nice for it to at least go to Birmingham like in the TSclassic version
@@GreatEasternMainlineSpotsno.... but like Ldn - Milton Keynes is barely any distance.... London to Rugby would be.... better.
The WCML in my view is the worst of the three core routes in TSW5. Rivet games were part of the development of this route and it clearly shows.
The inaccurate timetable for the Bakerloo Line, Lioness Line, LNWR and Avanti services brings the overall quality of the route down. Queens Park station for instance, should not be as quiet as it is. Then there are the lighting and scenery issues.
The Class 350 usually runs 8 car services. They rarely run 4 car services on the WCML so the formations are not realistic. They should've made other varients of the 350 instead of just the 350/1.
The section from Queens Park to Harrow and Wealdstone was copied and pasted from the Bakerloo line
I suspect that DTG will improve the timetable of this route given the massive backlash. This route could've been a great route overall, but it was spoiled by DTG wanting to get it out the door for immediate earnings. This route was definitely rushed
Since I have Xbox Gamepass, I got the route for free. If i didn’t have Xbox Gamepass, I wouldn’t have bought this route
No one uses the name Lioness Line unless you're a captured male feminist.
Not having the class 390, yes, it does feel like a mandatory dlc
With route hopping as a new feature, I wouldn't be surprised if DTG were to do the MKC - BNS portion in the future, with the class 221 and 730 as additional content. Could sell for £30.
I wouldn't put it past Dovetail if they actually did that. As for the Class 730, that would be a welcome addition to TSW anyway; the LNWR variant for WCML South and the WMR variant for the Cross City Line.
they prob will they been marketing this route as WCML South witch implies they making another one
@@ADORIG_frright now that’s because there’s a WCML north in development which is set in the 80s from preston to carlisle, so i doubt we’ll be seeing an extension to birmingham any time soon
@@gstakktransport5227 it’s a shame it isn’t modern day
@@DC4260Productions any way to send you link to my 5car 710 as youtubes ai deleted my msg with link and you can host it in this videos description?
It is so obvious Rivet Games were involved in the development on this. The route maps, the timetable, the scenery, even there is literal Assets with the "Rivet Games" logo on it! (you can go to Hatch End station and peek through the window of the waiting room to see this.)
I really cant lie, this addon isn't all that bad, it only lacks the quality and route length as it only features London Euston To Milton Keynes Central which is quite disappointing, well what do you expect from dovetail. They could've at least made the class 377/2 appear on the Brighton mainline and layered services from East Croydon to Watford junction. Hence, they could at least have made a separate branch from East Croydon to Watford junction if you had owned the Brighton Mainline. They should've also given us the full Bakerloo line from Elephant and castle to Harrow and Wealdstone. The lack of the St Albans abbey branch is quite shocking as there are no trains going to it, not even ai services. Well I do remember the video you made reviewing the Bakerloo line and you did mention the lack of scenery between queens park to harrow and Wealdstone, well at least we have it, I have been looking forward to seeing this review finally coming. Great video👍
All that takes a very long time. They can't just add it in 5 minutes. The 377/2 on bml would have required every service to be reauthored and retested which is a huge amount of work since the tt is so big
They say they're going to fixed it but I think it's the license trouble
And I've noticed at 7:21 timestamp that the number of coaches the Watford DC Class 710 has is completely wrong. In real life she's a 5 coach London Overground Class 710 service not 4.
luckily we have formation designer to clean up after them even though that should NOT be our responsibility.
Its 5 and 4.
With guard mode on the 350 if you do an all stops run its actually alright. The time it takes to check all the tickets is about the same time between stops and the train does get quite full. However the 323 guard mode is broken as the guard panel works incorrectly and the local door closes when you close the door.
The poor timetable really kills this. The underground and overground services running almost hourly is very off-putting.
They always blame "performance", but if a modder can make BML run with 1800 services, the actual developers should have no issues.
Or at least give us a choice if our hardware can run it.
That's a point. In TSW4, I had that BML timetable mod, and it came with a 12-car Class 700.
As for the poor WCML timetable, it certainly won't help the route's reputation unless Dovetail or a modder improves it. Come to think of it, ECML - Peterborough to Doncaster has a 'reduced' timetable alongside the full one; DTG should have done the same thing for the WCML.
So the underground timetable is like the original tsw2 timetable
@@thestigsbentcousinthat’s what it’s copied from
Same with all the track
The best review. So many issues that should have been sorted before being released. On the GWR line there is a missing static 72 stock at Ealing Broadway. Even though I have the DLC it doesn't show but if you only have the GWR route and 72 stock installed with nothing else it shows in the platform.
The white coaches livery is an old one from when they transferred from virgin to AWC. Avanti had the front of the trains painted then slowly did the coaches to maintain running stock for services. This livery is now no longer seen as far as I am aware, I’ve travelled on these trains a lot of times and seen lots more and I’ve never seen that livery in person. It is outdated and makes sense not to be in the game.
This is by far my favourite route in all of train sim world and i always wanted this route as it has my local station on it and it’s amazing
Slight correction - the Avanti livery with plain white middle coaches is an older version I believe
I definitely recommend doing a follow up review on this one based on the improvements that have come from the Enhancement Pack and FAWX 2024 timetable that were released today.
Or perhaps even a video focused on content provided by the likes of Fawx, Bescot, Jetwash, Sprattyheath, Laika etc and how these Modders have gone out of their way to improve these routes and advising your viewers which ones you would advise using :)
I won't have time to make a follow-up review this week, but I have at least downloaded the new EP and timetable. I've got a good first impression of it so far, and I'd go so far as to say that it puts Dovetail's default timetable to shame.
Edit - Game crashed when I tried loading one of 390119's services (the 10:15 out of Milton Keynes), and now it's crashing before it can even get to the main menu when I try launching it from desktop.
Guess what Dovetail did for us PS4 players?. For the West Coast Mainline South they only gave us the Class 390 and the Class 350 and that's it.... Nothing else. But
Hell us PS4 players we don't even get the 1972 Tube Stock, the Class 66, 377/2 Southern EMU, not even the Class 710🙄😒
Heck they could've done like what they did for the ECML add 2 separate timetables. A reduced and a full timetable. But they blame it on “performance issue's”🙄😒...
And don't even get me started on the downloading process of TSW 5 versions of TSW 4 DLCs on consoles 🙄😒.
And for the Catchart Remastered route, we don't even get the Class 350 or Class 390 AI services at Glasgow Central... And I've got ALL the British DLCs every single one
The worst part is the 377 is still in scenarios and on the thumbnail but what I think they should do is let ps4 players decide what layers they want to use seeing as the feature exists now
Dude we Basically got fucking scammed
Basis for an actual class-action lawsuit on false advertising here
It's not dtg's fault the last gen consoles is really old and does not have the memory of power to run the game. Stop making it their problem which they have no control over. More and more companies are dropping support
yeah, it makes sense because you are on an 11 year old console. even DC 4260 himself says the game is massively held back due to the gen 8 consoles. its been 4 years since the PS5 dropped, upgrade.
Just upgrade to a next gen console. Solves your issue
its only a matter of time and then tsw6 is out leaving tsw5 to rot like the rest
You should’ve also mentioned that Rivet Games were part of the development of this route since it clearly shows with the overwhelming issues on this route. When I bought the deluxe edition of TSW 5, I expected this route to have a busier timetable with more activity considering this route includes London after all but NO this route feels like it takes place in the universe where Thanos snaps his fingers! WCML South still feels like the British equivalent of New York to Trenton mainly because of the short route length, the underwhelming timetable, the route being rushed in some places (thanks Rivet), the Class 390 Pendolino being sold separately in a similar manner as the Acela Express, the St Albans Abbey branch not being included in a similar manner of the Princeton Branch (or Dinky Shuttle), and lastly, London Euston being quiet like New York Penn Station when the NYT route was first released! I do like to drive the Class 350 and Class 390 on this route although the sounds are not good but there are sound mods to fix that, well at least for the 390 as the 350 sound mod isn’t ready yet!
fun fact from something i saw in the rsc discord, if you drag and drop the tsw5 pak files into tsw4 it will work completely normally. and show that there was no need for a tsw5
What were you expecting they are TSW4 routes you just won't get TSW5 features like route hopping or conducter mode.
Hello DC 4260. I must agree that TSW5 was completely unnecessary. What it contains, it could be easily integrated into TSW4. However, I have to say I quite like this new route and the Pendolino as well. The class 390 is one of my favourite emu, at least when we are talking about british rails ( I know that this em had tons of problems in real life, but still...). Thanks for the great reviews. I'm a big fan of your channel and the content as well. You are my number one source when I want information about TSW routes. Keep up the good work. And sorry my lackluster english knowledge. Greetings from Hungary!
That's a pleasant surprise; I wasn't aware of anyone tuning in from Hungary. Incidentally, the only railway from your country that I really know anything about is Budapest Metro line M1.
@@DC4260Productions I would like to recommend you a video to watch on youtube, if you are intrested about Hungarian Railways: "The Rail Revolution That Never Was". The BDVmot and BVmot (which were mentioned in that video) are my favourite hungarian emus :D
And by the way I saw on my Instagram that next week unfortunately the Class 323 EMUs will be unfortunately withdrawing their services from the West Midlands services irl.
Have you seen the new concept designs for the class 360 interior refurbishment? Looks great
Can't say I have. All I know about the 360s is that they're working with EMR these days (not the ex-Heathrow Connect ones, of course).
The version of the livery with plain white coaches and grey doors is no longer a thing and it hasnt been for some time. It was an interim for the VT - Avanti changeover. They managed to get them all fully painted in 2021 - 2022. So thats why it isnt seen in TSW5.
15:20 And I'm very disappointed to not hear the older Silverlink/early London Midland sounds ingame, along with no unrefurbished 390 interior despite AWC using it.
It's whatever dtg was able to record.
Avanti specifically told dtg not to do the old interior. Did you want dtg to not listen and break the relations even more?
13:33 The reason why they haven’t dropped support for the “old-gen” is because (and they also said it themselves) is because a large proportion of the player base still uses the old generation (including me!)
Fantastic review, Really made me wait to buy this on sale. Subbed 👍
I agreed with everything you said. The timetable is what kills it for me, I can't bring myself to drive on the DC line because of the lack of AI trains. I do enjoy driving on the main route, as I've found the class 350 and 390 to be quite good.
Great video, keep up the good work.
I had the patience to drive on the Watford DC Line at least once, but the lack of Ai on that line really does ruin the experience.
It is not bad, well there is certainly room for improvement. I would have really have liked it to go all the way to Birmingham New Street, but knowing Dovetail..... Let's just hope the post release updates at least improve the route, if it doesn't make it totally better
The TT is a very big flaw. I could forgive everything else if we had a very busy TT but that is not the case.
I'm happy DTG included both subclasses of the 390 instead of pulling what they did with the 700 and only include one, however I don't understand why they couldn't do the same for the 350! Although they did include the Dual-Voltage variant, I do not understand why they could not include the /2, /3 and /4 to allow for all services to be at least 8 car, as the other three all look the same (no shoes). I have a feeling this could be a reason to the lack of services, as there are already a lot of 4 car services in the TT.
The audio is reused from the 380 because they recorded a 350 and used those sounds on the 380.
Because no 2 units are identical. You're basically making a new train from scratch
You made a good point about why is this game still being sold on PS4/Xbox One. Likely there are too many people still for whatever reason using these systems. However in my experience, this game should not be on consoles period. That includes the PS5/Xbox Series. I recently bought a fairly top of the line gaming PC and decided to try TSW5 on it. I also downloaded it on my Xbox Series X. On the Xbox, the frame rates remain the same since TSW3: jittery and inconsistent making for a jerky nauseating experience on any TOD4 route. Now compared to a modern gaming PC the frame rates remain mostly locked at 60fps (my preference) with the occasional (frequent?) loading pauses. The game is simply too unoptimized and requires a good PC to brute force this pig into running properly. It runs terribly on modern consoles so it must be even more atrocious on older ones. There should be a space for this game on consoles, but DTG are not the team that can pull it off.
I agree with the idea that TSW shouldn't be on consoles, especially if the performance / optimisation isn't sorted out.
If it only existed on consoles, the game wouldn't magically improve and use all the shiny new features so you would still end up unhappy.
It would also cut off a huge amount of their profit so they might go out of business since consoles being most of the money coming in
@@DC4260Productions I really don't think so as well, it's hard to think of any advantages of playing it on a console over a PC unless you don't have one. You're unable to mod the game so you can only have the vanilla routes and trains, which especially detracts from the experience when playing on poorly made routes/trains without mods. Between that and a few other "features", it really feels like Dovetail are trying to provide a "casual" driving experience while milking customers, not fixing major bugs and monopolising the train simulator market. They really should have prioritised on making the WCML as good as can be rather than attempting to expand their audience with TSW Tycoon and TSW5VR, but stonks is probably more important to them.
@@potatoman451 Oh I agree if it was console exclusive in its current iteration, the game would still be awful. DTG don't know how to optimize for the platform. Now perhaps if it was a console only game they could have dumbed it down accordingly. I mean they had it right with TSW2 which could for the most part maintain a frame rate. It's the nonsense they did afterwards that doesn't play well with any console. Their real problem is either lack of knowledge, lack of talent, lack of testing, or simply under too much pressure to rush everything out unpolished to have it all come together nicely. But their current formula for whatever reason brings in enough to keep the lights on, so I guess more power to them to fleece and get away with it.
Honestly, I'd say they did the 350 justice, albeit you are entirely right that they should've done the /2s, /3s, and /4s - As a regular user of all of the 350 subclasses (as they uee all four on Liverpool to Birmingham services), there's very little difference between them all.
They probably still would've avoided doing the /2, as those have 3+2 seating and severely run down furnishings from the London Midland days with very few updates, including basically still running in London Midland livery to comply with the licensing terms with LNWR, as apparently Avanti West Coast were really strict about what they could represent - Absolutely no traces of the original interiors from the Virgin days were allowed.
The 390 is pretty good too, but I recommend downloading the Class 390 Sound Mod by ItsYa165 for the best experience, as the run sounds were pretty mediocre.
Try this out for your Frankfurt-Fulda review:
There's a service for the 14 car ICE 1 at around 11:00 am which starts past a red signal and you can't even play the service.
I shouldn't be surprised about that. This is Doesn't Test Games after all.
@@DC4260Productions Great one!🤣🤣
The only ones that have lifts, but the lifts don't work, are stations from Queen's Park to Harrow & Wealdstone, because nobody bothered to change them since TSW2. The least they could do was put 'lift out of order'
I haven’t been able to drive the 390 yet as it keeps crashing the game but I have been enjoying the overground line as it’s a nice change of pace from the rest of the route
Just found out that the railway turntable on Hanau HBF on Frankfurt fulda can be operate and not just accessories. But I think as usual they forget polish it
22:45 don't worry that's just normal around England lol
I can imagine.
Ahhh, you luv it. Great job. Again, thanks for saving me $$$. DTG rip-off. When is 6 coming out, can't wait.
I think a big issue is those who are still playing TSC have the sim so loaded with DLC now that it's pretty much expected now to have a route that is even if not long, at least contains plenty of traffic within a scenario. This is an area where TSW has improved over time but it's still too common to just spot the odd clone of what you're driving and of course the occasional 66 but not much else. As for passenger mode, I can't believe they haven't even implemented it properly. Waiting 30 minutes for a train at rush hour is frustrating and entirely holds back what should be a great mode.
The series was doomed by having to share space with consoles, they may provide an acceptable experience but we know the issue is the need for brute force to run that the consoles can't provide. I guess without consoles though the project would have financially died off by now so swings and roundabouts.
Of all the TSW's this is probably the biggest disappointment of them all so far due to the usual overpromise/underdeliver though with every problem from the past still very present.
Still, good news about being able to get it all half price in February, just like every single year.
Honestly, I respect you for purchasing TSW5 to make constructive review.
WCML is a buggy mess. After I watched DTG WCML livestream's feedback, and DTG forums went crazy, I decided to hold on my wallet until bugs and poor timetable are solved.
Personally, I don't want to blame DTG developers because they are trying their best in DTG's intensive release schedule. But I do blame DTG"s executives and managers for releasing TSW in an intensive release schedule. What DTG needs are slow down the release schedule, HIRE more people to check the quality for every content, or reconsider about third-party partnership. (DTG needs to think about cutting ties with Rivet).
By the way, if DTG were adding some game-play pack for WCML, they should make class 319.
Because;
A.) class 319 did ran on WCML until 2023 in London area, and 2024 in Manchester area.
B.) I want to see some 80s EMU in TSW
That's a point, I recall seeing any '80s British EMUs brought to TSW before. As for wanting DTG to cut ties with Rivet, I can only agree.
Kinzigtalbahn next core route review?
I haven't decided which core route to look at next.
There is a mod that removes the invisible walls for players and it makes the game so much better. Im curious to see JT's WCML Preston to Carlisle and how that compares to this.
the only problem with cutting the route at rugby is the fact that most avanti trains dont stop there as i have only ever been on a pendilino and stopped at rugby once , ive been on it like 5 times
Simple answer to why another annual new game: the new DTG owners demand a new game each year. Add in DTG's tendancy for 'routes by the numbers', it's not great. The route looks nice I guess, but not bundling in the 390 in with the route is a slap in the face.
I've upgraded to TSW 5 for free, the only route that will be a day one purchase is Just Train's Preston-Carlisle. I'll pick up WCML in a future sale
The route should of atleast gone to Birmingham Milton Keynes was a silly ending
Nah Birmingham is a bit of a stretch but rugby seems doable
something i do like about TSW5, it dosent kill my computer when i tab out. since i have a shit PC whenever i tabbed out of TSW4 it just froze. so i couldnt even shut down or leave TSW4. so i had to press CTRL+ALT+DEL, open up task manager from there, but i couldnt actually do anything on it, so i had to restart my computer, then cancel the restart to shut everything down, I dont have to do that now so thats somthing. Also, the 350 probably uses the same sounds as the 700 DC sounds, since dovetail used the 350 sounds for the 700
The unnecessarily empty Bakerlop and London Overground timetable is what killed the last bit of excitement I had for this route. If they can’t even make the mainline near London busy I don’t more what to expect anymore
The route was made by Rivet Games. Surprised you missed that!
Woah channel name change
I didn't realise until I heard your voice
Something tells me DC 4260 is going to be very angry when he finds out about cargoliner Part 3 and 4 with STILL no new locomotives
They are gameplay packs, not loco dlc. If you don't like them, just don't buy them. Many people like having more freight wagon variety
Caroliner 1 and probably 2 as well were reskins of existing rolling stock, the 3 and 4 are at least new wagons, the flaws are £10 each!! And no new loco add ons like the class 60, 67, 68, 69, or 70 to name 5 examples
@potatoman451 £10 each is still unreasonable for basically nothing new, that was the issue with pt 1 and 2 nothing new added, js reskins
10 pounds is indeed unreasonable for these packs, and the fact that you don't have to buy them doesn't excuse the high price. I saw Skyhook tease Cargo Line 3 & 4 in a Facebook post, but I won't be making a video about them because they're not worth my time.
What they should do is make the GBRF 50's for freight/railtours or the EWS class 67, come to think of it the 67 would be easier as it apparently has the same prime mover as the 66 namely an EMD 710 series and we know skyhook can model a decent train
Who thinks that Dovetail have plans (evil laugh for no reason) to map the entire UK rail network?
Do you use lossless scaling to Improve for fps?
I didn't know what that was when I made this video.
Oh ok
i think a 730 wouldve been a better train to make expensive,
i think it would be better if they made it a backdated route (to 2016/17) and have VTWC and London Midland - as Virgin already have a license and LM isnt a thing anymore, it would also mean they would have a 378, which would compensate for the mid tier length (3 trains like i suggested is possible, look at SEHS.)
Sehs doesn't include any new trains. You're asking for like 4 brand new trains never seen in tsw before which is a massive amount of work
I use the Pendolinos nearly every day. The sounds are pretty good when accelerating out of stations but their iconic passing sounds are missing. With the liveries all pendolinos now have a full livery. However im quite annoyed that none of them have their nameplates. Aslo should have included the Pride livery and Climate Change livery (i have already made the former in the livery desinger).
Definitely think the pendolino has been underutilised been wanting this train for years but for a 30 minute drive isn’t worth it otherwise it’s a decent route
I hate that they removed save and upload from the camera mode. now i have to upload from the menu and that causes the game to crash for whatever reason.
I’m from rugby and this is my local route and would’ve been good
25:18 looks like History repeated itself, remember 2021, when WCML south was launched
I will only buy TSW5 if they make a proper Isle Of Wight Ryde Rail with class 485/486 standard stock from the 1970s.
Access might be limited
-The same procedure as last year Dovetail?
-The same procedure as every year, players!
Man just when I thought DTG couldn’t drop the ball even further also performance on PS5 is so bad I went back to 4
The most annoying part of this is route and most disappointing, is the Class 390 sounds in the interior going full speed, is it doesn’t make a screaming sound and it’s essential to the class 390s experience here are a few others:
~First class should be at the front not the back
-The pantograph should always be at the rear of the train
-the acceleration rate is far to fast for a class 390
There the problems for The class 390.
Another problem i encountered was the screen boards weren’t accurate either. Which spoils the realism… everything else I’m happy with though.
390 sounds similar to real life but I’m pretty sure it’s synthetic as something just doesn’t sound right 😅
It is. They were only allowed to record a static 390
I have more enjoyment playing the TSC version. Milton Keynes to Birmingham. A good 90 min semi fast service, not this 30 minute nonsense in the 390.
I’m playing on Xbox, we got the 350 and 377 ONLY…
Init same
Nice review bro.
you did NOT just spell ICE as "ice"...
Great review
Luckily because I have Xbox game pass I didnt need to give money-hungry DTG my money
Yeah the stock sounds for the class 390 are pretty bad contrary to what a lot of the DTG fanboys would have you believe
Honeslty your reviews are the only interesting things that come out of TSW.
Why can't Dovetail fix all the glaring issues in their game instead of adding new layers onto it all the time? It's just disgusting how much of a monopoly DTG has on the train simulator market, especially when they are not letting the community create content that they would like in the simulator, at least without workarounds, and treating their customers terribly in the process. We simply can't let corporate greed take over an entire hobby. Even with TS Classic, I'd like the modernised South Wales Mainline as it's very close to my local route, but the amount of DLC it requires (often from companies that emulate DTG's business model) costs so much that you wouldn't half want to drive a Super Class 47 with a V12 sound mod along the route! 😂
You can create your own content using the editor. Also mods exist so how is dtg preventing the community from making content
As usual we're all very angry with DTG but everyone is buying and rebuying all the addons, parceled or not. That is why only 11 months ago we had TSW 3 and we're now up to 5.
That's why the WCML South crashes on systems that were bought 2 weeks ago with 64GB RAM if it gets too foggy.
Pathetic! Everything DTG has to be acquired on the high seas so they learn and we'll leave it at that.
Ah yes, DTG, aka the Boeing of train simulators
This route was my breaking point, because as a ps4 player I literally got scammed; 2 trains out of 6 promised and it's still barely functional. This is quite literally a cyberpunk 2077 move but at least CD Projekt red had the audacity to refund ps4 players. Im done with dovetail, actual scammers.
It's not dtgs problem you have old hardware
Good route spoiled by linearity and license less stations
Are you going ro review the frankfurt fulda route?
At some point, yes.
Tbh this is how the economy is like ppl like being greedy just to get more money
the island of sodor if TSW5 made a bad quality and inaccuareted map :
the IOS : HONHONHONHONHONHONHONHONHON >:) YOU RE IN HOT WWAATTEERR!!!!!!!!!
DTG: AH FUC-
moments later DTG got bankrupet
Those 390 recordings are pretty crap if I'm honest, even Armstrong Powerhouse did slightly better with their 390 sound pack. If they where recorded, they weren't recorded well and, if they where synthesized, then they weren't synthesized very well either, sorry DTG, I cannot commit.
You can download the mod
DTG literally has a so-called "audio team" that doesn't seem to be doing their job very well 😂
Where is the 805 in this route??? 😡
Been waiting for this to drop. By the way the sounds are SO BAD for the 390.
Also is the class 20 on TSW good?
I'd say the Class 20 is decent in terms of the modelling and sounds, but you only get one livery (Railfreight red stripe) and only the variant with headcode discs; the Domino headcode box wasn't included for some reason.
@@DC4260Productionsyeah I mean snagging it on cdkeys for 2 quid is def worth it. The sounds for the 390 aren’t great the traction motor fans / blowers are good but only turn on when in forward not just when you apply power
@@TrewStudios21 they can't make good sounds without appropriate reference material
I wish I had Elon Musk money. I’d buy out DTG and make the development of TSW back into an actual passion project instead of being so dime driven.
Wake up
A new non-biased review has been posted
🔥
Who whole sim feels like a demo. It's pathetic
Finnaly, someone who thinks TSW is a bloated pile of shit.
You always have a negative complaint, In all your videos revieiwing the routes, you never have something good to sayµ
That's not true. I do give credit where it's due, and I have made numerous TSW reviews that are more positive than this one.
You never stop whining do you?
Shut up mate. (not DC 4260 himself!)
He is giving constructive criticism to DTG. If you want to complain, then don’t watch this. It’s as simple as that.
Rivet Games are so shit
-The same procedure as last year Dovetail?
-The same procedure as every year, players!