How to repair PVC pipe: The four 90's method
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- Опубликовано: 9 янв 2010
- Greg Chick, Ramona's Plumber, shows how to repair broken PVC pipe where there is limted space and pipe movement available by using the "four 90's" method.
See the other PVC joining videos for additional methods.
PLEASE RATE AND COMMENT.
All questions posted will be answered!
For additional FREE information go to DIYplumbingAdvice.com or call Greg at
760-788-2889 
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This 4 90s method is simple but ingenious. I’ve struggled with repairing pvc for years without ever thinking of this.
@ramonasplumber. Excellent video! This 4 90s method is superior to other methods because it uses no o-rings. It will NOT leak. A suggestion below is to make the second short vertical pipe the LAST piece to glue in place, then twist the pipe a quarter turn (with channelocks if schedule 40). I think it's a good idea to dry fit everything, carefully glue each part, and make sure the horizontal bypass piece is long enough that you can spread the last 2 elbows far enough apart to squeeze that short vertical pipe in place. I'm going to use a fine point pencil to line up every piece perfectly.
Love this method. To people wondering how it affects PSI, the only reason it does is because of the fittings, not because of the U shape. We always called this method a "saddle" for a nickname, not be confused with actual tapping saddles etc. you can easily look up the PSI loss in charts that tell you how much each fitting effects PSI. I've used this method on plenty of class 315, 3 and 4 inch lines. I use schedule 80 elbows and the loss in PSI is very insignificant. So if you have adequate pressure do not even doubt yourself using the method. It is just one way to make a repair all ways have ups and downs. 4 90's is great, cheap and great at eliminating pipe deflection unlike slip fixes, slip fixes are cheap quick and easy but don't do well if there is excessive bends in the pipe, more so larger size pipe. I've repaired many leaking slip fixes on 4" lines because they had to much deflection, mechanical joint couplings is a solid way to join pipe but much more expensive. Do what suits your job. But to anyone thinking they will cut their pressure by 25% or something very noticeable by using a 4 90's fix, that is wrong.
I cut and put all the pieces together and assembled them to see if the measurements were correct. Everything fit perfectly. Then I disassembled the pieces. Next I reassembled each piece as shown in the video. After everything was in place with the primer and cemented pieces I then turned on my sprinkler. The leak was stopped and this method worked very well. I am pleased with the results.
I guess that's why I am a Quality Control Manager. It was a very good demonstration for quick repair to residential systems. Nice Job!
Absolutely the best idea I've seen, I had a situation just like this and you saved my day, thank you...
Greg, I love the cleanliness and precision of your work; been going through your videos preparing myself for a irrigation system replacement and I feel very empowered with some good habits to get me started. Thanks!
How did the repair go?
Thank you! I appreciate how this video was short and straight to the point. Good job sir
My pleasure, ever need advice on plumbing issues I can help..
GREAT videos, thanks for your input, i do a lot of pvc repairs and assembly and always look up techniques to learn more. I watched this to see if anyone commented on PSI loss - i am replacing a tight area in a 3' deep small hole excavation, a 90 is leaking and i prefer not to excavate too much. I was thinking of melting through the small leak with primer and taking it apart, but now going to add some vertical connections instead and join again horizontally up above, as you did in this. Advice i tell my workers is to pound the backfill BELOW the finished pipe with the handle end of a shovel, so if weight from above tries to push pipe down it will not have anywhere to go, and will not break. i fix a lot of leaks from this issue.... Jerry B, Envirodesigns, Tucson
My 2" main service line cracked at a fitting under my driveway so I'm limited in how much I can excavate for the repair. You saved me money and a whole lot of time with this method...Thanks Greg!
Is the fix still lasting?
Excellent process, glad you fixed it. Yes pre setting some of the joints is a good move...
Thanks Greg. You solved my problem. I wanted to add an outside faucet to my outside water conditioner line. There was no play whatsoever to push fittings and the faucet in place.
Boy oh boy, I cant get away with anything, I am glad you guys watch that close, thank you for doing so.
Thank you, this saved the day for my home's supply line. But since I was in an awkward position, I didn't think I could do all that gluing you did at the end. So I tried something a little different. First, a complete dry setup using a permanent marker for alignment markings. Did the two 90s on the main line as you did. Then glued the upper 90s to the "bypass" pipe, pushing together and fitting into the lower 90s. Took it out, then glued it back in.
Excellent suggestion that I'll use. My bypass is below a 4" sewer line and being rushed like that is stressful. Your method reduces the fittings to glue each time in half. Thanks!
@@tomz808 I don't know if it would work for you but there may be a better way. Saw a video where the guy eliminated the slightly raised areas in the couplers so he could slide it further down the pvc, then run it back the same way toward the replacement piece. Same thing on the other end. You end up with a straight pipe instead this 90 degree thing. Which is still holding by the way. Hope that's clear; I'll try to find a link.
@@tomz808 Here's the link: ruclips.net/video/x7NWmdlvVIQ/видео.html
@@geecrawdad Thank you. I've watched this one too! I'm going to try and assemble the entire U with all 4 right angles, then glue the two top right angles to the main pipe by flexing the U inwards. This way I can push and rotate the joints.
I just fixed 2 lines with this method, but no need to glue all those last pieces at the same time. Make a C out of the 2 last elbows, straight pipe and just glue it into the elbows already glued to the broken pipe ends. Yes you need to measure that straight pipe but it's not hard. Also, in many cases there is not enough room for a vertical repair section, just turn it so it goes out to the side of the piping. IMO the compression repair fittings you can find are junk for the long term - they will eventually leak.
I came up with this fix "Many" years ago out of desperation. Water line break and no coupling and a long way to town but I had a box of 90's and glue and pipe and a little measuring and glue and pipe was fixed and water back on in the house, My line was 1 1/4". Neccesity is the mother of invention. used it many times since in tight situation...good trick..
you missed to glue the elbow on the right hand side as someone else noticed at about 5:22. one way of doing this without rushing is to dry run it and mark each transition with a straight line that would be matched after when applying the glue; anyway thank you for your time and all the effort making this video
Thank you I knew there was a trick to this tight problem
Great job. Your helping a lot of people out here. Keep doing what your doing. Clear Primer Purple primer it all depends on what the inspectors what. Awesome my friend Awesome have a great Holiday :-)
Claude, thanks, thats what I nam after, to help and kick it up a notch. I.A.P.M.O. is my passion and Water is the reason... Your right, inspectors are the only ones who need that purple dye. I use clear. I also use the correct stuff and at warm enough temps. I have been known to keep a blow dryer on a fitting for 20 mins. when the ambient temp is < 60 deg.
Thanks sooo much! It's beautiful job Brilliant Ideal!!!!
That's easy. thanks for you good video👌
He takes something easy and makes it look harder than it is
I am glad to see so many people actually watch that close. Thank you for your comments and attention. I should claim I did that as a test to see if anyone was watching.... but I am an honest Plumber and I did miss a fitting... That is what tests are for..
And in your defense, you are providing instruction (talking) while you work. In most cases one would be more focused, especially when quick-drying cement makes things time-sensitive. Not to say that people are not capable of doing more than one thing at the same time ... Just ask people who text with one hand, hold their beer with the other, while controlling the steering wheel with their elbow or knee; it's just that sometimes things get missed in one's haste.
Great idea. Thanks.
However why not come the straight up pipes first then have the top 2 90s cemented to the top piece and just drop down as a unit?
@Elayiahna
Thanks, I am glad you were able to follow. I guess the little silver thing is the "Cone Debur Tool" a small one does 1/2" - 1-1/2" all a homeowner needs. If you go to a large hardware store you will find the tools you need. The sales person should be able to show you how to use.
Eric,
That depends on the velocity of the water. @ 20fps, yes it will have "great" effect on dynamic pressure. @ zero velocity, it will have zero effect. A 1" PVC water main to a residential single family home, probable GPM is about 3, so 3 GPM in a 1" PVC line will have un noticeable effect. However Spray irrigation having 18 to 21 GPM in the same line will lose a couple psi, dynamically. There is a chart for all pipes and flows and sizes.
Great video but I have a question. I was expecting that you will make U shape first and then plug it inside two 90 corners... what is the advantage of doing all joints at the same time? At least you can connect one more 90 corner with short pipe and do 3 remains at the same time. I do believe there should some good reason, thanks in advance for answer
Great video and idea but you missed gluing 2 spots at the end but I know it's just an example. 😄
Do the 90 degree angles adversely affect the water flow? When can this be used and when should this be avoided?
Thanks for your great videos. I have learned a lot.
Best video I saw today everybody else talks so much
A great idea that works! A suggestion, I rotated the horse shoe from vertical reference to horizontal, to the run of the pipe. This way I eliminate a high spot, potential air lock and draining the circuit. Again, great idea.
A bit harder, but best! way to go..
@rkalla What is the volume in GPM on each valve or zone? the reduced pressure Drip line will not be an issue unless you are using Micro sprays. I like the manifolds a lot. What size box? a 12" box is small for 3 valves. Getting to regulator is also an issue. Are you using a Seninger regulator? 3/4" valves are best kept down to 10 gpm. 15 gpm on 1" . inlet pressure should be limited to 80 psi. what is your inlet pressure? what kind of heads you using, how many heads
I love it when people care enough to pay attention, thank you, for comment and being detailed enough to see that.
Please feel free to respond to other issues you seeon my site
Greg Thanks again
Very thanks brother
thank you! :)
@jgooooooo
Have you seen the one on "Slop fix" joints? if you use that method and supplement the coupling for a tee, you have a tee joint. Saddle tees are sold for LOW pressure applications (Lateral sprinkler pipes). If you use the 4 ninety's method you can replace a ninety with a tee! . I tried to keep the videos as short as possible, so I didn't say that then.
Greg
@jgooooooo
I thank you, what I am looking to build is a quality help site for everyone, your viewing and comments are "the rest of the story"
@ramonasplumber
fair enough. but i still believe that if done right, filing the inside of couplings will result in just as solid a joint as any other.
@denismoloney27
I assume you are meaning "Slip fix" O ring sealed fittings. Sometimes not enough room exists for those, or one is not available. Yes I use them, but then I couldn't show this method. Often the pipe alignment has an issue from trench settling and the 4 90's method is the true fix. As far as filing the stop in a coupling goes, that is not to code and bad idea on mainline pipe.
Not sure if where I live it has too much pressure but I did this and had a blow out I had a plumber some in and say that this wouldn’t work due to the pressure. Again not sure if that’s was the case but haven’t had another blow out
Is it okay if you don't turn the pipe when gluing it into the fitting? I noticed you weren't able to give every joint a 1/3 turn. Thanks for the help
please explain, what kind of sprinkler, Fire or Irrigation, what pressure? in what application?
Good Tip! are you from ramona,ca? I lived there thru high school and now I live in Orange. Thanks for the informative videos!
Any drop in water pressure using the 4 - 90 method ?
Will doing this on a residential main water supply line reduce water flow to a noticeable degree?
Yes the 4 elbows are a real pressure loss. If velocity is 10 feet per second, and many hrs. a day, you will end up with water gouging inside the pipe causing a leak! If pressure drop in the pipe is a concern then use a slip fix. What service is the pipeline? to the house? or a sprinkler head?
Been doing this for many years. Call it looping. We don't use slip fixes on well lines. Especially suction lines. Can't say what friction loss actually is unless it's associated with a pipe size and flow amount. No where near what others have said. I've done this hundreds of times and never had a material loss of pressure in end well or sprinkler performance. Slip fixes also won't work if two pipes are close together.
Jimmy Kipper well said
Thanks, the need for tricks is always there but doing them well is not always there. The 4 90's thing is just when tight/no room for a slip fix. Some tell me this makes pressure drop in pipe flow, I realize this, but sometimes velocities are slow and it matters not! or, no choice exists. Thanks foe viewing.
My understanding is that slip fixes are fine if there is normally no water pressure (on the other side of a valve from the main) but should not be used (though many do it) on the main side where there is always pressure.
What is that tool you used on the pvc to prep the ends of the pvc?
Is there any way that 45's could be used to cut down on the pressure loss as well as the gouging? I'm sure that the slip fix is a good product but, I prefer permanent connections. This would be for a connection to the house. I realize that the best solution I may be looking for is to dig a big hole and just put in a couple of couplers. (This is for a cabin and not my residence)
He forgot to glue the bottom left inside. Oops! :)
+David Sutherland yeah, caught that too :)
He missed 2 of 8 total
You're not rotating those last two joints when you join them, which could cause a weaker bond. There is a method where you can rotate all the joints, and also you'll only have to glue two joints for the last step instead of four. Glue the two 90s on the original pipe (of course twisting all these joints 90 degrees as you install them). Glue a vertical pipe on one side, then glue a 90 on top of that vertical, then glue the horizontal piece to that 90. Ideally this piece would be at least a foot long for more flexibility, but shorter will work, too. (You must measure this piece carefully to fit the gap in the original pipe.) Then glue a 90 on the horizontal piece (of course facing down). Then you'll glue the last piece in, which will be a vertical pipe the same length as the other vertical pipe. The horizontal pipe and the first 90 will bend enough that you can fit this piece in and then push the top assembly down to fully seat the pipe in the 90s. Put your primer and glue on both ends of the last pipe and in the two 90s. Bend the top part up, put the pipe in, then push the top part down. Now, using a pair of channellocks, twist the pipe you just glued in 90 degrees. If you're using schedule 40 pipe, the channel locks won't damage the pipe. I don't know about schedule 10 (which I wouldn't use anyway).
is this will work with the water pressure ??
@ramonasplumber Thanks man! I have 2 valves and a 8psi reducer for a drip sys on one of the valves; I want it *all* to fit in a box for easy access/maintenence later. I was thinking Rainbird 100-DV, 2-valve manifold with the reducer oriented as a 3rd valve all inside box (all 3/4) -- thoughts?
Good idea...
45's do not allow the function of a aligned insertion. They are like straight couplings.
Slip fix fittings work as well when pressures are below 100 psi. They also work well if you have one,often people do not usually buy them because they are more expensive than a straight couplings. What is the pressure? and is the line prone to having air in it? Domestic made slip fix fittings are good products .
The last two that you pushed into , you did not use glue on one side ,only solvent
you missed solvent on your right upright 90 and one end of the repair pipe and no need to be so close on the nipples, give yourself some room...lay the joint horizontal for less air impact... lol, Good video, and a great method for small pipe.
dzappss1 did it today on 2.5" schedule 80.
@ramonasplumber Picked up 2x Rain Bird CPF-075 - can I use the flow-control on the valve directly to do what the reducer is doing for me and just take it out of the equation or is that mis-using the valve?
4 90's is more friction/pressure loss than a coupling. but just as strong. This will additionally allow for some expansion and contraction in the piping run. if 100 ft. long run is installed at 90 deg. F on a hot day, and the temp. drops to 40 deg. F contraction / shrinkage will pull the pipe apart and leak.
Why do you have to rush the last step? Why can't you just build a "C" with two 90s and the horizontal piece first and then insert the assembly into the two vertical 90s as one piece?
If the first 90s aren't exactly straight up the second 90s can still twist so the pipes will still go in. If all you're 90s are exactly perfect and straight you could do it the way you suggested.
I always do it the way you're suggesting. As long as your angles on the 90's are good you'll be fine.
Finally got an answer on my question, thanks!
We've pulled it off using nothing but street 90's...
I'm not a plumber, and recently encountered this problem … the existing pipe segments wouldn't move in order to clear the new fitting I needed to install. Why would one go with this 4 90s method? In the store I found two types of couplers -- one has a stop or ridge midway around the inner diameter. No way to use this in my situation. They also had a version for repairs, without the stop on the inside. It was smooth, like a 3 inch section of pipe. Using this, I could slip it down the existing pipe, both sides, then install a new section of pipe that butts against both sections (i.e. perfect fit), then slide the "slip couplers" over such that half of the coupler is on the existing pipe, the other half over the inserted section. This is a very clean result, not forcing whatever's in the pipe to turn 4 corners greater likelihood of a clog, etc. Why is this method not discussed in the various options you show (compression, sliding slip, and 4 90s)?
A couple things. No need to "debur" the pipe because the ratchet cutters left a clean cut to begin with. Every time water makes a turn there is friction loss. Through four 90 degree 3/4" elbows probably 5-8 psi. Why not use one 3/4 glue coupling and a dresser coupling or quick fix repair coupling? Faster and easier than what's shown and the water continues straight through the pipe.
I've used the Oatey Fushion cement + primer in one.
The function of the primer is best used as a prep treatment, the color is only pigment used to designate so people know if they applied the primer first. As a professional contractor/Master Plumber etc. I must use and suggest the "By the book" code approved methods. If your water pressure is below 50 psi, it likely matters not. Outdoor sprinklers after the valve is usually about 30 psi. However plumbers work on high pressure water mains, therefore details matter...
I don't think I could do this. I'm not that fast. One joint requires coating two surfaces (pipe and fitting). You did an amazing four joints at once, which is eight surfaces. By the way, I noticed you only coated six surfaces. Not trying to minimize what you did...just pointing it out. I watched this video to get a better idea of how to glue pvc in tight spots (close quarters with little room and movement). Thank you.
What are cone references?,
@brokenarrow2222
How did you find it? I am looking for the words that drive a connection to what I am doing....
Hello! First, let me say I enjoy your video's. You like to explain WHY we do things, as well as WHAT to do! However, you use a tool you call a 'cone' to prep the PVC ends. My Lowes store had NO idea what I was referring to, and on ebay I could not find one. What is the proper name for this tool and where could I get one? Thanks in advance....John D
PVC Beveling Tool
@brokenarrow2222
Thanks, I get different response on my videos some get thousands of views, other only a hundred? . I still am learning what it is that people need to know.
Greg
Can't you just dry fit it to make sure everything fits well, then do it again with primer and solvent?
Why not use street elbows to reduce the need to cut / weld the connector stub?
How far from straight can a slip repair be used?
Any innovation for household plumbing that allows a weld free repair for quick repair?
He doesn't need to glue so many as a last step. Glue your first 2 90's point up, than glue the 2 pieces of pvc pipe. What I do at this point is dry set one 90 and insert the pvc pipe making the span. Glue this pvc pipe into first 90 after it is cut to size. Next glue in the second 90 while making sure the span is correct. Now all you have to do is glue the last remaining 2 sockets on the 90. I've been fixing sprinkler systems for over 25 years.
The Tanner Channel I had the same question, so we can do corners on main pipe first, then corners on short one and finally one by one plug both sides of that short pipe with corners on both ends, is that right?
That's what I was thinking. Dry fit, mark with a sharpie. Glue the top pieces. Then it should be glue to the bottom. Less stressful. Lol
presar no problem sir?
my main pvc water line leaking from one 45' close to the meter, please let me know if 4 90' is right fix for it, how much pressure i will lose from that.
thank you
+Michael Ding This is not an optimal repair. This repair is for desperate situations in tight quarters. If a straight repair is possible it should be done.
thanks...
How long does PVC pipe last ?
I was told it lasts for 100 years.
Can't believe I actually called for a plumber, when I reckon I could do it myself.
time is the only reason you pay anyone....to do anything. If you have half a brain, study, research you can do anything.
AND materials. Well here they do! Well it seems I have a whole brain as I fixed it myself with what I had one hand. Even my neighbour stole my idea!!
Yeah right. I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall watching you fools trying to fix plumbing...
Dee Plorable I agree with you. Reality is way difference and we pay not for time but for experience which we also can gain but after many mistakes and failures. If failure is allowed in your case, then try do it yourself first :)
Whenever possible I prefer a small Straight + two Couplers with the center stop removed. Prime and glue it all up, slide the Couplers 100% over the small Straight gluey yucky mess, add more glue to the fixed (in place) pipes, align the splice and slide the Couplers back to 50% on either side of the splices.
I did not know they made no stop couplings for PVC.
5:16 You missed one of the ends of that middle pipe.
Still, though, quite educational, thank you.
awesome
Straight up
If a pipe is broken, a coupling can not be used with out the socket depth movement to one side to allow the pipe to be long enough to fill the coupling.....If you have a min of one lose pipes you can use a coupling. if not, a coupling will not fit. A slip fit telescope coupling is made for this but if you do not have one, or, no room for one exists, you need to use the 4 90's method.
The fittings are as good as they are done correctly...Difference is couplings have less friction than elbows do and velocity is more of an issue due to close fittings...Excessive pressure is an issue with any pipe or fittings. Velocity needs to be less than 8 fps. pressure is
Why to use elbow to raise the pipe? Why not use a pipe piece and glue it together straight at both ends?
I've been using Wheeler 5290 ratchet cutters for more than 20 years and never noticed the flaring of the pipe you're talking about. Also never had a glue joint fail because of the poor joints you refer to. If I am doing a sprinkler system and making hundreds of pipe cuts with ratchet cutters, how much time would I waste to stop and debur every pipe cut on the sprinkler system when in more than 20 years I've never encountered the poor joint problem you're describing.
good way to tap line also
Is the (4) 90s method, better than using two slip unions?
I've got a 1.5 PVC main supply to my house (water tank to basement) that doesn't see much pressure (about 40-50psi) but wondering what the better fix is... as it'll be 5ft underground and I don't want to go digging it back up anytime soon!
Hoping to hear back soon!
Johnny, Pressures less than 80 PSI and where there is room for slip couplings, I have successfully used slip couplings. The 4 90's method is often used when room does not exist for slip couplings, or pressures are very high. As well slip (telescope) repair couplings are not always available.
@@gregchick3311
Thank you! However...
I ended up calling ramonasplumber late yesterday and found that 'unions' are not allowed underground (buried). I had hoped to use 2 slip/slip unions as that would be easiest, but after the discussion decided to do (4) 90s. Plus I had them on hand.
The hole I was dealing with, was almost 6ft deep. So I didn't EVER want to have to dig it back up. I have a backhoe, and did most of the work with it but manually shoveled the last of it to get to the piping. Hence how I didn't ask about slip couplings or compression fittings as a repair. Plus, not enough room to work and get a coupler in place. The 1.5" pipe isn't too flexible in a 2ft span with one side at the dirt's edge.
In fact, it was cold out... and windy... so I'm not sure if that was why, but two of my slip joints came apart (the two verticals of the two 90s) as soon as I applied some water pressure. Almost as-if they had no glue. I had used Christys Red Hot Blue Glue and had primed all locations with a nice tight fit. The other joints are holding well.
I ended up re-gluing the two bad joints and used Christys Wet Or Dry PVC Cement instead. I also had initially tried to keep the joints warm with Halogen lights (overnight)... but when I used the Wet Or Dry I placed a heat gun in the hole and indirectly warmed the pipe/joints for an hour.
The Wet Or Dry (on the two problematic slip joints) did the trick and held under pressure this AM, and I was able to cover the hole back up after an hour or so of observation.
@@JohnnyJ50f Likely temp. was the issue, temps below 60 f. I always use a hair dryer so to speak. Both fittings/pipe, as well as solvent. then afterwords for 30 min. Carefull to stay below 100 F. A chamfer on all pipe edges is madatory, I always use primer on pressure mains, and for 1-1/2 " up I use medium solvent, not fast solvent. IPS does make a few different solvents. The solvents having colored pigment is just colered pigment, looks and branding. Fresh solvent is as well more important than pigment. Even more important is no water, regardless what the marketing says... I use a wet dry vacuum to evacuate water...
@rkalla I responded above, sorry wrong box....
No Air Lock ?
Culvert cleaning, not bad, that must have been an M-80?
Right side elbow you put without glue
Will Greg or someone please respond to my Q below? Been hoping for a reply for many months now. Thanks!
Too much charm and skill to need a hair do, Thanks for watching, share my link with friends or foe..
This was a test to see how many watch closely... You are one in every 20,000 or so that have said that out of about 100,000.
Good eye - I saw that too...
@fasteNATION You must be a pro.
@manstock2 yup noticed that to
Why not put the top “section” together leisurely, (straight and 2 90s) then install it to the bottom, less rush.
COOL