@mostlymessingabout I'm just saying! 4mp is half the resolution of a 4k video, even! It just doesn't seem worthwhile for me personally. I'm definitely not a megapixel snob. Just give me, like... 12mp? So I can crop in a bit and straighten my horizons if needed.
4mp is more resolution than the cameras that made pro photographers switch from film to digital. The Nikon D1 was only 2.7mp and the Canon EOS 1D mark 1 was 4.1mp, definitely enough resolution to post on Instagram or twitter
I have a Lytro Illum. I bought it purely out of fascination. It's definitely interesting and looks really cool IMHO. It has a place on a shelf in my collection.
@stew_redman Do the Lytro web viewers still work? I wanted to put some Lytro images on my website and came across Lytro code for “Viewers” which could be imbedded into a site and show the post focus effects of the Illum, do you know if this still works, how do you view your Lytro captures?
This camera would be a godsend for any cg/vfx/animation artist, allowing to camera track and 3d reconstruct the scene. It should've provided its users all the possible raw data. It would be great to shoot video and get a depth map as well for starters. But unfortunately they only targeted it for doing gimmicky effects to impress your friends and family via a specialized website, and it tanked. Lightfields are still very promising but after this failed attempt people don't want to touch it, and go with the safest way of simple imaging that every camera does, and to let AI figure out how the scene was really like. Eventually they pivoted to ultra-expensive lightfield cinema cameras for movie studios, but they missed out on all of the prosumer and indie market that this camera could have taken over.
suchhhh a good point. The technology is incredible, I wonder if someone can somehow hack it? imagine hooking it up to like touchdesigner or something....
@@salarycat that was going to be their next venture, Lytro was working on a 360 camera that would let you scan entire rooms depth and let you copy the data directly into 3d software
I agree. The video describes it as if you'd pick one focus after shooting the image. However, retaining all ray information allows to do so much more. For example. you have some sort of eye tracking (maybe in VR too) and it puts the thing you're looking at in focus, just like in the real world. But there is not yet any demand for such effects.
I have this camera as well as their prior smaller model. I absolutely loved the creative expression that I was able to achieve with this camera. Not only post focus, post depth of field, but post angle shift, and multi depth color correction. However this only had real meaning with their interactive images that could only be hosted on Lytro's website. That is where the Lytro images truly came alive including a convincing 3D and zoom affects when tilting your phone, and in particular macro photography. For website and phone display, the lower resolution wasn't a big issue, being trapped in a proprietary web gallery was. I feel that if they have open sourced the image player, this camera would of had a better chance. One last huge feature of the Lytro images, they contained a lot of data at the time, 16mb per shot. That data included light intensity and light direction as well as RGB (light field) and that as software improved, you could reprocess your images to achieve improvements in quality and effects. I can only imagine now with our current advancements in AI assisted processing, how these images would have turned out.
I have a Lytro Illum, it took some amazing photos, it was fun, etc... With all the info you mentioned about its demise, I believe the final nail was from decisions the company made itself. There was an article written, and if accurate, company exec's wanted to go after bigger fish, movie cameras, so they abandoned the point and shoot and started building movie cameras. The size and price was both enormous and outlandish, hence the end of the company, as nobody in the movie world was willing to invest and/or film on the emerging technology. Essentially, according to the article, they abandoned any and all revenue generating products for a whale product that just was not ever adopted.
about that 4MP resolution comparison, you could have mentionned that the last time we've seen a 4MP resolution being released in a camera above $1500 was in... 2003 ! (with the Nikon D2H) 11 years before the Illum !
@@leoborn4013 actually that's not really the case. Light field images have 1 pixel per micro lens on the final image, but there is much more actual photodiodes under each micro lens. The CMOS sensor itself doesn't have much different pixel pitch compared to a regular sensor, however you use more than one photoside on the sensor to reconstruct one pixel on the final image. This is what gives light field effect cameras the ability to shift the perspective a little bit a rack focus in post, but that also means considerably lower resolution for the final image. photosites of the D2H from 2003 are actually much, much larger than the ones in the Lytro Illum. The point was that 4MP was already criticised in 2003 for being relatively low resolution compared to the competitor 6 or 8MP cameras of the time, and that it being criticed for its low res, 11 years before the Illum was launched with the excat same resolution figure is really what's funny here.
Reel says “watch the full video to see how this camera works”, so I start the video: “we’ll go into how it works later”, ok sure no problems, I’ll wait. “It’s too long to tell you how it works, I’ll just link you this”, now you pissed me off. But still nice video and I agree on what you said in the video
It will probably never happen for the more standard sensor sizes like Micro 4/3, APS-C, and Full Frame. A lens like that will be incredibly big and heavy to be useable for handheld shooting, not to mention the cost to make one.
Have an Illum since day 1. one can do pretty crazy stuff with it in post, like a stairway with all steps in focus but the ceiling vanishes in bokey. I think it was ahead of time and still is, because of it physics bending capabilities. However, those obscure artifacts in the images showed to be the biggest downturn, combined with the fact you want to create an impression when capturing, not hours after. It is a totally different creative process behind it, that is not easy to switch between the regular and commercial world.
I was so on board for most of this video, until the 4MP images and price tag! Mental that canon was releasing DSLR’s for $550 back then (with a kit lens!) If they did a similar concept now, just with a higher resolution output and less janky files/software, I could totally see it being more viable ! Great video mate, I had no idea this thing even existed!
This launch was the reason I stay far far away from kickstarter, indigogo, or any crowdfunding campaign of new tech startups. The entire technology world loved to write about this camera to gain momentum. Still remember those articles.
Yes, I would agree. A close analogy now would be the launch of the Alice Camera, an AI-power Micro Four Thirds camera that attaches to your phone. I didn't back it on Kickstarter originally and I'm still on the fence now, even though it's being released and is 30% off. And I'm a dedicated Micro Four Thirds shooter with many lenses. But somehow, I still feel like this camera is not being marketed to me.
This would've been a huge success if you could also do that for video, gone would be the days of missed shots, focus pulling or pumping auto-focus and you could just replace the focus afterwards with some keyframes
I remember seeing these promoted and thinking it was an amazing invention, but never was able to test it out. I hope a few of the big companies might jump into the game on this type of product.
I first saw the Lytro illum at The Photography Show, and the looks of the camera, and ability to change depth of field made it stand out. But as you said, this camera was aimed at the wrong kind of person. This camera was always going to be a curio, more than a mainstream camera, and it showed in the sales.
there are one or two that crop up for sale from time to time on Facebook marketplace. The 2nd Gen one, similar to the one shown here, is listed right now at 12k. Been tempted, but I have my eye on a Nokia 9 (another computational photography oddity) as well 😊
I remember coming across a detailed article a couple of years ago that explored not just what the MLA could achieve, but a whole lot of other things you could also do when you added very clever software and very high resolution sensors. What Lytro could do was basically _one_ of these effects. Others include such things as automatic bracketing (such as HDR in a single take), also photos taken at multiple simultaneous shutter speeds, and photo shooting that can take the picture before you hit the button.
I remember this camera and although first it gave this feeling of "wow, cool", it also had major flaws, like low resolution and that you had to host your photos in their servers. And although it gave the option of focusing later, I always felt that this is in the end a gimmick and too closed system for people to get excited. Especially as before this technology I was testing out all kinds of things with Flash (R.I.P) and I also made some tests with focus stacking / alpha blend png files that produced pretty much the same effect that based on your mouse movement there is a parallax effect and focus effect based on the mouse coordinates. I don't say that mine little art / script projects was as sophisticated, but the effect was quite similar (and as I was using a dslr, the resolution and quality was better) so I didn't get too excited about the whole thing... I wasn't too surprised to hear the company and the cameras just vanished a few years later.
It is revolutionary yes but alot of flaws yes my grandpa had one before but sadly don't work no more because suddenly when he was using it it suddenly turned off never to turn on again sad I didn't had the chance to hold and operate such an innovation
I do have this camera. Due to Updates of the operation system, I do not have the Lytro software any more. Do you know, where I still could find a download link? Thanks for your support.
That was an abrupt ending! 😂 But yeah, I remember how amazing it sounded and have occasionally wondered what happened to the tech. Thanks for the update!
I was just going to say this. Post focus was on my G9 and even my little zs80. I played with it a little when doing macro stuff. But it's not like it was a revolutionary thing.
I like how you waited till the very end to tell me just how bad this camera was. You’re right. I probably wouldn’t have watched that whole thing if you started with that segment of your video.
Oh wow! I remember that thing. I remember that it was a simple box. And yeah, never heard of since. I didn't know all of this happened. Sad and fascinating at the same time.
I remember hearing about the Lytro camera when I was not too far out of High School. I thought it was neat, but never wanted one of my own. I didn't think about it for a long time, but then it popped into my head one day and I thought, "whatever happened to that camera?" Well, it did indeed flop.
Fascinating video! I remember hearing about the Lytro, how it was supposed to revolutionize photography. I did't know about all the cons--and the 4 MP output! 😆Panasonic has a "Post focus" feature on many of their cameras that kind of does the same thing. But I rarely use it, except as a novelty feature.
When you explained the thousands of lenses, it struck me that insects with compound eyes probably see... they can probably focus on things in a very similar way
AF has gotten exponentially better since 2014 but even pros would love to be able to make micro adjustments to focus. It sounds like the entire concept is just too niche. I’m assuming those insane lens specs can only exist for light field cameras (even with adapters) so interoperability with lens manufacturers / industry standards for this camera is going to score an F. The megapixels is probably a CPU/Memory bottleneck which could easily be improved over time so I don’t see that as a big issue either.
I owned one for a while to play around with depth maps and 3d images. The depth maps that the camera created were pretty poor. 3d images (using the left and rightmost images) were ok, but only worked well for subjects very close to the lens... the difference between left and right images did not give enough separation to generate a good 3d effect, which probably also played a part in the depth map quality. It's a shame they didn't open-source the "living picture" code... it would have been somewhat useful if you could host them on your own website.
I followed the launch back then with great interest. As an owner of a Pentax DSLR, poor focus was very familiar to me. Nonetheless, it was clear to me back than, that it solved a non-existent problem with creating two huge new ones. Nobody really wants to ever play with the focus of their images again. Usually you just want to take a picture. And having to fiddle with each image later to get the dof you initially wanted and get images with massively reduced resolution and extremely poor low light performance was going to fail from day 1. Somebody had to try it, the tech was just too interesting to not try, but it never had a mainstream chance of succeeding.
Ironically it's very likely that today you'd be able to take the relatively low resolution of the Lytro and upscale it with AI much better than upscaling a regular low res photo because of the extra data it contains.
Had one of those, bought out of curiosity. Never really found a usecase for it, and as you say developments in other ways of creating depth maps made it redundant
having a proprietary software to edit photo is a dealbreaker for most people. Cost Too easy to focus especially when there's enough light. Low light AF is more valuable.
i remember following the development of this prior to launch. the idea behind the tech seemed really cool but i think the execution fell short of potential. its really cool to see a company push things so far.
Hey Tom, So you used the worlds biggest camera fail to take photos of the UK's worst town (Potatoborough) four years running. And they're pretty good images! What a total boss! ...Great review mate! 🙂👍🇬🇧
This camera was way ahead of its time. Though this camera has failed, the idea of capturing light fields has not. Today, through the use of AI-based techniques, people are continuing to produce light fields, though now with multiple cameras. It's very interesting to view them in VR as they capture not just the depth but they can capture the light direction so shifting the virtual camera position also realistically moves reflections and refractions in the captured scene.
I think the real problem was the developers didn't understand the camera market. Roughly it can be divided into snapshooters, serious amateurs and pros. This camera appeared to aimed at snapshooters but it's 'gee whiz' features are something they would use or try to understand. For serious amateurs and pros, it really didn't offer them anything but unnecessary complexity in post processing. For snapshooters, their phones are perfectly adequate for their needs. And the phone is in everyone's pocket. For serious amateurs and pros putting all the decisions into post processing just makes the process longer when a couple minutes in the field would obliterate much of the required post processing.
Nokia - back when they were the clear leaders in mobile imaging - did a Windows app "Refocus" which virtually did the entire Lytro thing in software. Take a picture in the app, and then you could refocus on different elements in post processing. Even that wasn't particularly popular, but when Lytro can be replicated entirely in software on a Nokia 930, it's no surprise that Lytro itself disappeared.
As a former photographer of model trains that desired maximum depth of field in macro photgraphy the Lytro was pretty hype back in the day. But it boiled down to just being a lame website-dependent focus pull gimmick. The guy who does the wiggly macros is way more interesting tech.
I remember wanting one of these for Macro photography when they first came out, I was hoping they would be useful for doing focus stacking and getting everything in focus at 1:1 to 2:1 image rations, The cameras were also used in some TV shows to make it look like some futurestic equipment, I cant remember which shows it might have been Fringe or Bones where a scientist or forensic person would use one to make it look like they had the camera with the latest tech.
Also had one of those but unfortunately no matter how bright it was the edges of the bokeh was always a bit jagged and not smooth, a bit like software portrait mode of modern smartphones but worse. Although the biggest weakness was the sharpness or the lack of when it comes to the background as in with no bokeh applied. Luckily now we have relatively good portrait modes on smartphones that gives us something similar, as long as it doesn’t confuse curly hair with the trees in the background…
i have one... and still use it! It's a really nice camera, the battery life is okay, the image quality is decent... the big problem though is the software, i don't think it works on modern Macs at all and even on windows you have to get it working and it's slow and clunky
I still have mine. I was amazed by what you could do with it, but it was the 4MP that eventually led me to going back to DSLR - at that time a 24MP crop sensor. And it didn't help that the MacOS software was a full version behind Windows.
Wow, a 30 to 250mm F2 lens with a 3cm minimum focus distance. Those are pretty impressive lens specs. I really didn’t understand the 4mp spec for 2014. That probably killed it right there. I didn’t hear him give the sensor size either, just the full frame equivalent, so that may have killed it as well.
It’s a nice camera, got both the tiny cube on and the big one. The error they made was concentrating on the focus feature that most cameras with optical focus can do anyway, and much better. The depth effect is splotchy. They should have just let users play with raw data in the first place. Now with AI, that raw light field data can be quite useful for tools like controlnet depth and relighting a scene.
It's unfortunate that it feels like this should have been what the industry moved towards, but instead there are no truly new inventions in the photography space from what I see, and most of the innovation is with cell phones.
I’ve got an original lytro, the kind of commercial prototype they put out. It’s actually really interesting to shoot with even though there’s not much you can do with it.
Of course! It's the Ulanzi TC001 Smart Pixel Clock. It does a bunch of other stuff too, but I just bought it to use as a sub counter. Link below for you (it's an affiliate link - it won't affect the price for you but Amazon will give me a small kickback if you use it - no worries if you'd prefer not to though!). amzn.to/3AczbU2
Although not yet fully understand the principle, but to my understanding it's a bit like having tons of "micro cameras" sitting behind the main lens, taking tons of images simultaneously from different angle - to create the "depth map" (3D information) of the scene. That info from "depth map" can then be manipulated later on and finally output as 2D image. Interestingly innovative in principle, but very demanding in both hardware and software. Imagine how many millions of that "micro cameras" needed to capture that 3D depth info? Probably the reason why the final output is only 4Mpx and its image processing program keeps crashing. Later on when all others realized that with rapid advancing in image processing, we can do more or less the same result by taking tons of images with various settings of the same scene...with only a single camera (or two), so why bother? Ultimately we ended up with 2 or 3 (or 4, for some models) cameras on the back of our cellphone, and be done with that.
Lytro Illum - amazing colors and amazing professional user interface. If it were without the light field it would be a Haselblad of my choice. So it stays on the shelf. But I took wedding photographs and corrected the depts field after I took them . The pictures were tremendous. Despite the relatively low resolution compared to a current camera. I still would use it. Unfortunately there is no way to use have the 3d feature displayed in web any more. As far as I know.
Coincidentally I came across one of these for sale near me for really cheap and I have always been fascinated by Lytro's tech. I might be tempted to get it just because it's so unique, although it is a shame that their software is obviously not going to be supported or developed further. I'd be curious to know if it's locked behind proprietary stuff, or if it is just so much more complex to process that even if somebody could make a third-party app it would take too long and require high level expertise for a dead product
Eh, you should cut down on the whakky bakky, you seem to not understand how this works which is worrying. This is a device, it does a thing. It won't stop doing the thing it does unless you make it, intentionally or not, by altering it somehow. Altering in this case includes your computer running the software since it is an integral part of the system. But yes the software and the whole system is quite complex, rather obviously if you think a moment about what it can do. If I were to find one for sale cheap I'd fight an army of zombies, eat ramen for a month, piss off my ex wife by not paying childsupport and a number of other things to buy it. Any other camera is a cardboard single use kodak toy for kids in comparison. I have the Nokia 9 Pureview which is the same tech as this and it's golden for the kind of pics I take. I have DSLR's and mirrorless, plenty of glass. I will still use my phone a lot within 'normal' ranges of distance and light even if I have another camera with me, because of what it can do.
Lytro "aimed" the release at pro photographers but I think this is a total feint for two reasons 1) The real market for the first release was "prosumer" early-adopter enthusiasts. Middle aged dads, people who walk around with a DSLR around their neck at national parks, that type. By fake targeting professionals while placing the price just at the top end of the prosumer range, they appealed to this demographic. 2) The real REAL market was as a technology development platform. No doubt the investors hoped the tech would be viable for all sorts of platforms such as SLRs or even cell phones. By subsidizing the first release they hoped to make a superior tech that would become mandatory for even mid-range photography products. It seems they were successful at the first market (as evidenced by ebay) but that market would never be large enough to justify the investment scale. They needed light-field sensors to become essential kit, and they simply failed to make their pitch to the larger world of consumers and tech companies.
I have that camera in 2014 something. The only good thing about this camera is the nice feel to hold it and focal length. They had some website to upload those lrf something files. Later that that website got shut down. And I eventually sold the camera.
I still haven't gotten out with my Lytro Field camera (the weird, square "lipstick" camera that's also shown a few times here), but having gotten it on the extreme cheap ($35) I'm in no way sad about it. Even if it sucks, it's a unique piece of camera history to have. Very weird tech, but I remember seeing these when they released and being super intrigued back then.
Could you review the discontinued Samsung NX cameras? Specially the Samsung NX300 which i've used and seems to have incredible results and some modern features for a camera released in 2013. It's price has plummeted down so maybe it could be a budget camera for an excellent performance.
The Light Field Camera technology may have gone black and may still be in development by defense contractors, quite an interesting way of capturing light so that it may be refocused after the shot.
Ah yeah i had the HTC M8 with the " 4 Gigapixels " It wasnt bad for a smartphone camera. It was just laggy for what it was offering owing to the fact the processing baked in using all the resources of the little processors. To be left with a 4 mp pictured. Oh an subject aware and edge detection was just starting so the transitions weren't all that good
A very interesting camera. I remember, how excited I was, when they first announced it. The same with Foveon sensor. Both are, unfortunately, a failure.
You can call that innovation only because it uses some new tech and may help advance research. But for photographers, it's just a gimmick and an unnecessary feature. I wish camera manufacturers focused on optics and censors and stopped thinking about features, AI and buzzwords. Btw, did we get a camera that makes NFTs?
I think what Lytro was aiming for is actually the next step of Apple's spatial photos and videos, aka contents for VR consuming. Considering Apple Vision Pro is still seen as too ahead of consumer market in 2024, Lytro was indeed biting off too much. In hindsight, maybe $4 billion could be a more "realistic" starting point.
This would be the perfect camera if it could be used for video too. You didn't had to by specific lenses to get that shallow depth of field. Also it could also allowed to key ot elements in post, wuthout the need for a green screen.
You had me until the 4mp 😂 what an interesting camera
I think you speak for every photographer ever with that statement 😅 Such a shame because the concept is so interesting!
Oh come off it. Don't be a MicroFourSnob 😂
well the other tech makes up for it and those samples looked damn good for 4mp
@mostlymessingabout I'm just saying! 4mp is half the resolution of a 4k video, even! It just doesn't seem worthwhile for me personally. I'm definitely not a megapixel snob. Just give me, like... 12mp? So I can crop in a bit and straighten my horizons if needed.
4mp is more resolution than the cameras that made pro photographers switch from film to digital. The Nikon D1 was only 2.7mp and the Canon EOS 1D mark 1 was 4.1mp, definitely enough resolution to post on Instagram or twitter
I have a Lytro Illum. I bought it purely out of fascination. It's definitely interesting and looks really cool IMHO. It has a place on a shelf in my collection.
@@stew_redman how much did it cost ya, I'm interested
@@Buzzkill11900 I paid $150AUD, about $100USD or 75GBP
@stew_redman Do the Lytro web viewers still work? I wanted to put some Lytro images on my website and came across Lytro code for “Viewers” which could be imbedded into a site and show the post focus effects of the Illum, do you know if this still works, how do you view your Lytro captures?
I remember those highly advertised online. Focusing afterwards sounded too good to be true. But the price made me shy away.
So you don't really use it?
This camera would be a godsend for any cg/vfx/animation artist, allowing to camera track and 3d reconstruct the scene. It should've provided its users all the possible raw data. It would be great to shoot video and get a depth map as well for starters.
But unfortunately they only targeted it for doing gimmicky effects to impress your friends and family via a specialized website, and it tanked. Lightfields are still very promising but after this failed attempt people don't want to touch it, and go with the safest way of simple imaging that every camera does, and to let AI figure out how the scene was really like.
Eventually they pivoted to ultra-expensive lightfield cinema cameras for movie studios, but they missed out on all of the prosumer and indie market that this camera could have taken over.
suchhhh a good point. The technology is incredible, I wonder if someone can somehow hack it? imagine hooking it up to like touchdesigner or something....
@@salarycat that was going to be their next venture, Lytro was working on a 360 camera that would let you scan entire rooms depth and let you copy the data directly into 3d software
I agree. The video describes it as if you'd pick one focus after shooting the image. However, retaining all ray information allows to do so much more. For example. you have some sort of eye tracking (maybe in VR too) and it puts the thing you're looking at in focus, just like in the real world. But there is not yet any demand for such effects.
The lens looks like the latest version of Hasselblad.
So... ugly?
No, it isn't. @@bojcio
I have this camera as well as their prior smaller model. I absolutely loved the creative expression that I was able to achieve with this camera. Not only post focus, post depth of field, but post angle shift, and multi depth color correction. However this only had real meaning with their interactive images that could only be hosted on Lytro's website. That is where the Lytro images truly came alive including a convincing 3D and zoom affects when tilting your phone, and in particular macro photography. For website and phone display, the lower resolution wasn't a big issue, being trapped in a proprietary web gallery was. I feel that if they have open sourced the image player, this camera would of had a better chance. One last huge feature of the Lytro images, they contained a lot of data at the time, 16mb per shot. That data included light intensity and light direction as well as RGB (light field) and that as software improved, you could reprocess your images to achieve improvements in quality and effects. I can only imagine now with our current advancements in AI assisted processing, how these images would have turned out.
I have a Lytro Illum, it took some amazing photos, it was fun, etc... With all the info you mentioned about its demise, I believe the final nail was from decisions the company made itself. There was an article written, and if accurate, company exec's wanted to go after bigger fish, movie cameras, so they abandoned the point and shoot and started building movie cameras. The size and price was both enormous and outlandish, hence the end of the company, as nobody in the movie world was willing to invest and/or film on the emerging technology. Essentially, according to the article, they abandoned any and all revenue generating products for a whale product that just was not ever adopted.
about that 4MP resolution comparison, you could have mentionned that the last time we've seen a 4MP resolution being released in a camera above $1500 was in... 2003 ! (with the Nikon D2H)
11 years before the Illum !
Bigger pixels mean more light per pixel. This is essential for the light field effect.
@@leoborn4013 actually that's not really the case.
Light field images have 1 pixel per micro lens on the final image, but there is much more actual photodiodes under each micro lens. The CMOS sensor itself doesn't have much different pixel pitch compared to a regular sensor, however you use more than one photoside on the sensor to reconstruct one pixel on the final image. This is what gives light field effect cameras the ability to shift the perspective a little bit a rack focus in post, but that also means considerably lower resolution for the final image.
photosites of the D2H from 2003 are actually much, much larger than the ones in the Lytro Illum. The point was that 4MP was already criticised in 2003 for being relatively low resolution compared to the competitor 6 or 8MP cameras of the time, and that it being criticed for its low res, 11 years before the Illum was launched with the excat same resolution figure is really what's funny here.
@@leoborn4013the sensor itself is 40mp on this lytro camera
@@sowa705 yes but that really doesn't really change the output doesn't it
This looks fun (except for the smol pixel).. i mean, there is a very specific genre of photography that can benefit this, i think..
Reel says “watch the full video to see how this camera works”, so I start the video: “we’ll go into how it works later”, ok sure no problems, I’ll wait. “It’s too long to tell you how it works, I’ll just link you this”, now you pissed me off. But still nice video and I agree on what you said in the video
@marcoficeli9408 no he said I can't cover the full story so watch the full video
I would love to have those lens.
30-250mm f2, I wonder when other manufacturers will make a lens like this…
Nikon, Canon, Olympus and Panasonic... it's a tiny sensor and just like literally every other bridge camera they have super zooms
It will probably never happen for the more standard sensor sizes like Micro 4/3, APS-C, and Full Frame. A lens like that will be incredibly big and heavy to be useable for handheld shooting, not to mention the cost to make one.
It’ll be the size of a small car
@@LoFiAxolotl Definitely not f2. If you would make a FF lens, it would be humongous
@@ameiya8949 compact cameras do this, lol
your story telling style is so smooth . glad you pop up on my feeds.
Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to leave a nice comment. I'm glad you enjoyed the video!
Have an Illum since day 1. one can do pretty crazy stuff with it in post, like a stairway with all steps in focus but the ceiling vanishes in bokey.
I think it was ahead of time and still is, because of it physics bending capabilities. However, those obscure artifacts in the images showed to be the biggest downturn, combined with the fact you want to create an impression when capturing, not hours after.
It is a totally different creative process behind it, that is not easy to switch between the regular and commercial world.
I was so on board for most of this video, until the 4MP images and price tag! Mental that canon was releasing DSLR’s for $550 back then (with a kit lens!)
If they did a similar concept now, just with a higher resolution output and less janky files/software, I could totally see it being more viable !
Great video mate, I had no idea this thing even existed!
Agreed, though I think once smartphones started being able to replicate this effect, it was all over 😅 I love the creative potential it had though
This launch was the reason I stay far far away from kickstarter, indigogo, or any crowdfunding campaign of new tech startups. The entire technology world loved to write about this camera to gain momentum. Still remember those articles.
Worse than crowd finding was the completely uncritical, hype "journalism" that became ever more pervasive back then and hasn't gone away nowadays.
Yes, I would agree. A close analogy now would be the launch of the Alice Camera, an AI-power Micro Four Thirds camera that attaches to your phone. I didn't back it on Kickstarter originally and I'm still on the fence now, even though it's being released and is 30% off. And I'm a dedicated Micro Four Thirds shooter with many lenses. But somehow, I still feel like this camera is not being marketed to me.
This would've been a huge success if you could also do that for video, gone would be the days of missed shots, focus pulling or pumping auto-focus and you could just replace the focus afterwards with some keyframes
You know what’s crazy? I looked this up yesterday to see a lack of recent videos. Now this has been uploaded. Spectacular
I remember seeing these promoted and thinking it was an amazing invention, but never was able to test it out. I hope a few of the big companies might jump into the game on this type of product.
I first saw the Lytro illum at The Photography Show, and the looks of the camera, and ability to change depth of field made it stand out. But as you said, this camera was aimed at the wrong kind of person. This camera was always going to be a curio, more than a mainstream camera, and it showed in the sales.
thank you for the 21:9 video! my Xperia is happy
I remember this many years ago!! it never arrived here in the Philippines!
there are one or two that crop up for sale from time to time on Facebook marketplace. The 2nd Gen one, similar to the one shown here, is listed right now at 12k.
Been tempted, but I have my eye on a Nokia 9 (another computational photography oddity) as well 😊
absolutely did not expect to see peterborough city centre at 1:39
I remember coming across a detailed article a couple of years ago that explored not just what the MLA could achieve, but a whole lot of other things you could also do when you added very clever software and very high resolution sensors. What Lytro could do was basically _one_ of these effects. Others include such things as automatic bracketing (such as HDR in a single take), also photos taken at multiple simultaneous shutter speeds, and photo shooting that can take the picture before you hit the button.
I remember this camera and although first it gave this feeling of "wow, cool", it also had major flaws, like low resolution and that you had to host your photos in their servers. And although it gave the option of focusing later, I always felt that this is in the end a gimmick and too closed system for people to get excited. Especially as before this technology I was testing out all kinds of things with Flash (R.I.P) and I also made some tests with focus stacking / alpha blend png files that produced pretty much the same effect that based on your mouse movement there is a parallax effect and focus effect based on the mouse coordinates. I don't say that mine little art / script projects was as sophisticated, but the effect was quite similar (and as I was using a dslr, the resolution and quality was better) so I didn't get too excited about the whole thing... I wasn't too surprised to hear the company and the cameras just vanished a few years later.
I remember reading about this on The Verge and being so excited about it.
It is revolutionary yes but alot of flaws yes my grandpa had one before but sadly don't work no more because suddenly when he was using it it suddenly turned off never to turn on again sad I didn't had the chance to hold and operate such an innovation
I smaller version in the rectangular block form factor - definitely a novelty
I do have this camera. Due to Updates of the operation system, I do not have the Lytro software any more. Do you know, where I still could find a download link? Thanks for your support.
Haven’t come across your channel before, but I’ve got to say, this video was amazing man! Concise points, wonderful explanations!
That was an abrupt ending! 😂 But yeah, I remember how amazing it sounded and have occasionally wondered what happened to the tech. Thanks for the update!
I remember hearing about it at its launch and thought it had way too many compromises while looking to solve a problem that didn't exist, IMO.
I turned on the subtitles just to see the 4mp through my eyes
My old Lumix G9 had post focus and I don't recall ever using it.
I was just going to say this. Post focus was on my G9 and even my little zs80. I played with it a little when doing macro stuff. But it's not like it was a revolutionary thing.
Key For iPhone photographers ‘ focus image change is on iPhone Even IPhone 15 Max . Extra 😅
didn't know about light field cameras. cool stuff, nice to learn about it
This camera was dreamcast in attempt to compete w the more infamous systems at the time.
I like how you waited till the very end to tell me just how bad this camera was. You’re right. I probably wouldn’t have watched that whole thing if you started with that segment of your video.
Oh wow! I remember that thing. I remember that it was a simple box. And yeah, never heard of since. I didn't know all of this happened. Sad and fascinating at the same time.
I remember hearing about the Lytro camera when I was not too far out of High School. I thought it was neat, but never wanted one of my own. I didn't think about it for a long time, but then it popped into my head one day and I thought, "whatever happened to that camera?" Well, it did indeed flop.
Fascinating video! I remember hearing about the Lytro, how it was supposed to revolutionize photography. I did't know about all the cons--and the 4 MP output! 😆Panasonic has a "Post focus" feature on many of their cameras that kind of does the same thing. But I rarely use it, except as a novelty feature.
When you explained the thousands of lenses, it struck me that insects with compound eyes probably see... they can probably focus on things in a very similar way
AF has gotten exponentially better since 2014 but even pros would love to be able to make micro adjustments to focus. It sounds like the entire concept is just too niche. I’m assuming those insane lens specs can only exist for light field cameras (even with adapters) so interoperability with lens manufacturers / industry standards for this camera is going to score an F.
The megapixels is probably a CPU/Memory bottleneck which could easily be improved over time so I don’t see that as a big issue either.
the lens is pretty much the same (quality wise too) as on every bridge camera... it's really nothing special
I remember being fascinated by this camera when it was announced, but I ended up opting for the Pentax K-5 IIs (the renewed "poor man's Leica")
I love that the video just ended, no outro, no nothing
Fascinating idea, I remember this being talked about , but never seen one in the real world
I owned one for a while to play around with depth maps and 3d images. The depth maps that the camera created were pretty poor. 3d images (using the left and rightmost images) were ok, but only worked well for subjects very close to the lens... the difference between left and right images did not give enough separation to generate a good 3d effect, which probably also played a part in the depth map quality. It's a shame they didn't open-source the "living picture" code... it would have been somewhat useful if you could host them on your own website.
Fascinating indeed. Thanks for the useful content.
I followed the launch back then with great interest. As an owner of a Pentax DSLR, poor focus was very familiar to me. Nonetheless, it was clear to me back than, that it solved a non-existent problem with creating two huge new ones. Nobody really wants to ever play with the focus of their images again. Usually you just want to take a picture. And having to fiddle with each image later to get the dof you initially wanted and get images with massively reduced resolution and extremely poor low light performance was going to fail from day 1. Somebody had to try it, the tech was just too interesting to not try, but it never had a mainstream chance of succeeding.
Cool video! Just out of curiosity, how much megabytes do the files weight (roughly)?
Lytro files are LFR/LFP format. Typically the files are ~50MB
Ironically it's very likely that today you'd be able to take the relatively low resolution of the Lytro and upscale it with AI much better than upscaling a regular low res photo because of the extra data it contains.
Had one of those, bought out of curiosity. Never really found a usecase for it, and as you say developments in other ways of creating depth maps made it redundant
having a proprietary software to edit photo is a dealbreaker for most people.
Cost
Too easy to focus especially when there's enough light. Low light AF is more valuable.
Thanks Gordon. A well balanced and fair assessment.
i remember following the development of this prior to launch. the idea behind the tech seemed really cool but i think the execution fell short of potential. its really cool to see a company push things so far.
Hey Tom, So you used the worlds biggest camera fail to take photos of the UK's worst town (Potatoborough) four years running.
And they're pretty good images!
What a total boss!
...Great review mate! 🙂👍🇬🇧
This camera was way ahead of its time. Though this camera has failed, the idea of capturing light fields has not.
Today, through the use of AI-based techniques, people are continuing to produce light fields, though now with multiple cameras. It's very interesting to view them in VR as they capture not just the depth but they can capture the light direction so shifting the virtual camera position also realistically moves reflections and refractions in the captured scene.
I think the real problem was the developers didn't understand the camera market. Roughly it can be divided into snapshooters, serious amateurs and pros. This camera appeared to aimed at snapshooters but it's 'gee whiz' features are something they would use or try to understand. For serious amateurs and pros, it really didn't offer them anything but unnecessary complexity in post processing. For snapshooters, their phones are perfectly adequate for their needs. And the phone is in everyone's pocket. For serious amateurs and pros putting all the decisions into post processing just makes the process longer when a couple minutes in the field would obliterate much of the required post processing.
Nokia - back when they were the clear leaders in mobile imaging - did a Windows app "Refocus" which virtually did the entire Lytro thing in software. Take a picture in the app, and then you could refocus on different elements in post processing. Even that wasn't particularly popular, but when Lytro can be replicated entirely in software on a Nokia 930, it's no surprise that Lytro itself disappeared.
I wish they redevelop this it's an amazing camera futuristic looking
And that lens is a dream
As a former photographer of model trains that desired maximum depth of field in macro photgraphy the Lytro was pretty hype back in the day. But it boiled down to just being a lame website-dependent focus pull gimmick. The guy who does the wiggly macros is way more interesting tech.
I remember wanting one of these for Macro photography when they first came out, I was hoping they would be useful for doing focus stacking and getting everything in focus at 1:1 to 2:1 image rations, The cameras were also used in some TV shows to make it look like some futurestic equipment, I cant remember which shows it might have been Fringe or Bones where a scientist or forensic person would use one to make it look like they had the camera with the latest tech.
What happens with no advertisement
Also had one of those but unfortunately no matter how bright it was the edges of the bokeh was always a bit jagged and not smooth, a bit like software portrait mode of modern smartphones but worse.
Although the biggest weakness was the sharpness or the lack of when it comes to the background as in with no bokeh applied.
Luckily now we have relatively good portrait modes on smartphones that gives us something similar, as long as it doesn’t confuse curly hair with the trees in the background…
i have one... and still use it! It's a really nice camera, the battery life is okay, the image quality is decent... the big problem though is the software, i don't think it works on modern Macs at all and even on windows you have to get it working and it's slow and clunky
I still have mine. I was amazed by what you could do with it, but it was the 4MP that eventually led me to going back to DSLR - at that time a 24MP crop sensor. And it didn't help that the MacOS software was a full version behind Windows.
I have one, but the battery died and I can’t find a replacement anywhere.. does anyone have an idea where to find it?
Wow, a 30 to 250mm F2 lens with a 3cm minimum focus distance. Those are pretty impressive lens specs.
I really didn’t understand the 4mp spec for 2014. That probably killed it right there.
I didn’t hear him give the sensor size either, just the full frame equivalent, so that may have killed it as well.
It’s a nice camera, got both the tiny cube on and the big one. The error they made was concentrating on the focus feature that most cameras with optical focus can do anyway, and much better. The depth effect is splotchy. They should have just let users play with raw data in the first place. Now with AI, that raw light field data can be quite useful for tools like controlnet depth and relighting a scene.
It's unfortunate that it feels like this should have been what the industry moved towards, but instead there are no truly new inventions in the photography space from what I see, and most of the innovation is with cell phones.
I’ve got an original lytro, the kind of commercial prototype they put out. It’s actually really interesting to shoot with even though there’s not much you can do with it.
4MP resolution, so called professional camera. Nup it's just a expensive joke.
I wouldn't be surprised to see a comeback of this technology one day.
What is your B-cam for overhead shots? I always notice how noisy it is 😁
I use various cameras and all end up being somewhat noisy as I shoot at f/11 so have to boost the ISO to compensate.
May I ask where you got the subscriber counter from? It looks sick!
Of course! It's the Ulanzi TC001 Smart Pixel Clock. It does a bunch of other stuff too, but I just bought it to use as a sub counter. Link below for you (it's an affiliate link - it won't affect the price for you but Amazon will give me a small kickback if you use it - no worries if you'd prefer not to though!).
amzn.to/3AczbU2
@TomCalton Thank you man! Appreciate it that's so cool
Although not yet fully understand the principle, but to my understanding it's a bit like having tons of "micro cameras" sitting behind the main lens, taking tons of images simultaneously from different angle - to create the "depth map" (3D information) of the scene. That info from "depth map" can then be manipulated later on and finally output as 2D image.
Interestingly innovative in principle, but very demanding in both hardware and software. Imagine how many millions of that "micro cameras" needed to capture that 3D depth info? Probably the reason why the final output is only 4Mpx and its image processing program keeps crashing.
Later on when all others realized that with rapid advancing in image processing, we can do more or less the same result by taking tons of images with various settings of the same scene...with only a single camera (or two), so why bother? Ultimately we ended up with 2 or 3 (or 4, for some models) cameras on the back of our cellphone, and be done with that.
Lytro Illum - amazing colors and amazing professional user interface. If it were without the light field it would be a Haselblad of my choice. So it stays on the shelf. But I took wedding photographs and corrected the depts field after I took them . The pictures were tremendous. Despite the relatively low resolution compared to a current camera. I still would use it. Unfortunately there is no way to use have the 3d feature displayed in web any more. As far as I know.
Fascinating! If you ain't covered the Foveon sensor yet, please do. Thank you.
I found the topic really exciting at the time.
Unfortunately I didn't get any 😕
Coincidentally I came across one of these for sale near me for really cheap and I have always been fascinated by Lytro's tech. I might be tempted to get it just because it's so unique, although it is a shame that their software is obviously not going to be supported or developed further.
I'd be curious to know if it's locked behind proprietary stuff, or if it is just so much more complex to process that even if somebody could make a third-party app it would take too long and require high level expertise for a dead product
Eh, you should cut down on the whakky bakky, you seem to not understand how this works which is worrying. This is a device, it does a thing. It won't stop doing the thing it does unless you make it, intentionally or not, by altering it somehow. Altering in this case includes your computer running the software since it is an integral part of the system. But yes the software and the whole system is quite complex, rather obviously if you think a moment about what it can do.
If I were to find one for sale cheap I'd fight an army of zombies, eat ramen for a month, piss off my ex wife by not paying childsupport and a number of other things to buy it. Any other camera is a cardboard single use kodak toy for kids in comparison. I have the Nokia 9 Pureview which is the same tech as this and it's golden for the kind of pics I take. I have DSLR's and mirrorless, plenty of glass. I will still use my phone a lot within 'normal' ranges of distance and light even if I have another camera with me, because of what it can do.
Bender watching the robotic playboy 🤣
Lytro "aimed" the release at pro photographers but I think this is a total feint for two reasons
1) The real market for the first release was "prosumer" early-adopter enthusiasts. Middle aged dads, people who walk around with a DSLR around their neck at national parks, that type. By fake targeting professionals while placing the price just at the top end of the prosumer range, they appealed to this demographic.
2) The real REAL market was as a technology development platform. No doubt the investors hoped the tech would be viable for all sorts of platforms such as SLRs or even cell phones. By subsidizing the first release they hoped to make a superior tech that would become mandatory for even mid-range photography products.
It seems they were successful at the first market (as evidenced by ebay) but that market would never be large enough to justify the investment scale. They needed light-field sensors to become essential kit, and they simply failed to make their pitch to the larger world of consumers and tech companies.
I always wanted one of these!
I have that camera in 2014 something. The only good thing about this camera is the nice feel to hold it and focal length. They had some website to upload those lrf something files. Later that that website got shut down. And I eventually sold the camera.
I still haven't gotten out with my Lytro Field camera (the weird, square "lipstick" camera that's also shown a few times here), but having gotten it on the extreme cheap ($35) I'm in no way sad about it. Even if it sucks, it's a unique piece of camera history to have. Very weird tech, but I remember seeing these when they released and being super intrigued back then.
Wow, I had forgotten about this, I was so hyped to get one of these :(
Wow I had no idea MLA technology was so old i thought it was more recent tech used to make OLED displays brighter.
I remember this camera all over the media and they kinda die off. the concept is great tbh, maybe the founders couldnt get the target market right
Could you review the discontinued Samsung NX cameras? Specially the Samsung NX300 which i've used and seems to have incredible results and some modern features for a camera released in 2013. It's price has plummeted down so maybe it could be a budget camera for an excellent performance.
I've always been curious about this camera. I'm going to have to look up sample images from it now
What mirrorless fullframe and tiny camera body should i get around 1500 usd
@@abutalha6220 sigma fpl
damn 4 MP just ruined it completely, imagine this one capturing in 24MP
The Light Field Camera technology may have gone black and may still be in development by defense contractors, quite an interesting way of capturing light so that it may be refocused after the shot.
the 4mp was ridiculous ... but I love the Illum and hope some day devs can use the android os for new features
Ah yeah i had the HTC M8 with the " 4 Gigapixels "
It wasnt bad for a smartphone camera. It was just laggy for what it was offering owing to the fact the processing baked in using all the resources of the little processors. To be left with a 4 mp pictured. Oh an subject aware and edge detection was just starting so the transitions weren't all that good
A very interesting camera. I remember, how excited I was, when they first announced it. The same with Foveon sensor. Both are, unfortunately, a failure.
"...really wouldn't' look out of place next to camera released this year" - shows a sony camera who's design hasn't changed for 10 years😅
Cool tech, great video. I think Lightfield affect cameras will probably make a comeback in some smart phone.
You can call that innovation only because it uses some new tech and may help advance research. But for photographers, it's just a gimmick and an unnecessary feature. I wish camera manufacturers focused on optics and censors and stopped thinking about features, AI and buzzwords. Btw, did we get a camera that makes NFTs?
I think what Lytro was aiming for is actually the next step of Apple's spatial photos and videos, aka contents for VR consuming. Considering Apple Vision Pro is still seen as too ahead of consumer market in 2024, Lytro was indeed biting off too much. In hindsight, maybe $4 billion could be a more "realistic" starting point.
Imagine if they can use that technology in portrait mode for mobile phones. That would look better than the AI portrait of the phones
This would be the perfect camera if it could be used for video too. You didn't had to by specific lenses to get that shallow depth of field. Also it could also allowed to key ot elements in post, wuthout the need for a green screen.