EICR Consumer Unit Issues - Eddy Currents, IP Ratings and Torque Setting of MCB’s - Electrician Matt
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- Опубликовано: 4 май 2024
- On site with electrician Matt testing and fault finding whilst doing an EICR (electrical installation condition report). This video will be used to support classroom teaching at college. Matt highlights some but not all the possible issues during the video like Eddy currents, IP ratings and issues with torque setting inside the consumer unit. However some further discussion have been left for the classroom lessons.
This video gives you a chance to understand what’s going on inside some consumer units (fuse box or fuse board) and it’s not always the best practice.
For EICR codes we use and recommend the Napit Codebreakers book.
== 🕐 Time Stamps - Cut to the action 🕕 ==
00:00 - EICR inside a consumer unit
00:33 - Eddy currents
00:54 - All cables in one gland
01:11 - Grey as the CPC
01:42 - SWA armouring not glanded correctly
02:12 - Checking the torque setting of the MCB's
03:01 - IP ratings
03:35 - Shower 6 mm2 cable on a 40 amp breaker
04:04 - No stickers
Videos are training aids for City and Guilds (C and G) and EAL courses Level 1, 2, 3 plus AM2 and AM2s.
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What a fantastic training aid Matt...lots of talking points if you look close enough. The learners at Tresham college are luck to have you...
Great video and I feel ready taking my 2391 course and you guys are the best, fantastic team who haven't stop helping people like us at zero cost.
Fantastic comment 🦾
@@GSHElectrical got me through my 2391 great content
Great video 👍 this is the reality of sparky life. Not all Hager boards and perfectly neatly wired. 👍
Great comment
Ihave seen DBs routed with mm precision and still the fatal mistake of running the neutral under the din rail has been made! More emphasis should have been taught on eddy currents when moving to metal DBs!
I wish Tresham College was in London. Would be the first one to enrol because of the great tutors they have. GSH you should consider doing more EICR videos as very important to ensure correct coding. Great short snappy video by Matt.
J Mohammad Matt has left this video open for classroom decision note the main switch position 🤫. I have a couple more edited with Matt on site ready to release 🦾. Thanks for the support. Gaz
Very interesting some of what is done we can't do here in the USA but I like to check out the way you pull wire here in the US NEC is our code then state one local ordnance and here it's a service entrance we call it a breaker box anyway great show love to learn new ways that may be overlooked on neck end
the neutral outs from the 2 RCDs are also fed under the din rail (live is over the top through MCB's), dont forget the metal enclosure and din rail also form a "big" loop so eddy currents will be flowing in this enclosure!
Interesting, in Germany the grey wire was used as N or PEN until 1965 (transition period until 1970). And the discussion about the colours is absolutely the same here. The best thing is to always look at the whole cable and the colours of the wires inside. We had three different colour codes in the last 60 years...
1965:
black, dark blue, red, grey. Black was line, grey the neutral or PEN. Red could be CPC, but it was also permitted to use it as line or switched line and the N is no N, it's a PEN...and that's were the fun starts and most electricians hate to work on such old installations because you can only rely on one thing: Can't rely on anything. Everything must be tested and measured.
From 1965 to 2003:
black and brown for lines, three-phase cables had two blacks. The black between pale blue and green/yellow was L1, brown L2 and the 2nd black L3. Pale blue neutral and green/yellow CPC. In some installations from the early time until 1970 old school electricians used the green/yellow as traveller for lighting circuits (they were get used to that from the red wire), but that was not permitted.
It was also distinguished between flex cable and cable for fixed installation. On flex the line was brown, on cables for fixed installation it was black.
And from 2003 on: The same colours you use in the UK.
Marcel Germann wow what a detailed comment... many thanks 👍
As always great content , in the left rccb it's connected to more then 6 mcb breaker which my alot load on that on rccb becuse i see 40 amp mcb and many more but less laod in total my be that rccb not handle the full amount of all mcb current
All great points 🤩
Is the 018 online test hard?
Best way to rectify top-surface IP4X ports is to "stuff" them with red fire putty (the horrible playdoh like stuff used to cover the inside of backboxes that pierce a fire compartment wall). If you ever have to install backboxes and use fire putty to remediate them, keep a bag of leftovers for this purpose whenever you encounter it. It's far easier and cleaner than trying to extrude some silicone into the right place, and then cleaning up and storing your open silicone tube.
The incoming supply grey tail for the live conductor ,is the brown insulation meant to be visible? as it is now it is not double insulated is that right?
Remember we are using this as a training aid for our learners at college 👍.
It’s fine and the correct method. Your lectures will explain why it should be like that.
@@AndyK.1 so if the other end of the tails going to the meter or the incoming supply cutout were visible thats not ok?, i ask if insulation starts to breaks down over the years it would be exposed possible chance of a shock.
In this case it is within an enclosure so double insulated is not required in there. It is also good to see a bit of brown to ensure polarity is not reversed. As long as you can’t see cooper at the meter there shouldn’t be any risk.
In the blue book show’s that the black as neutral and the grey as cpc,
I’m getting confused 🤷
No CPC in lighting would that be a c2 (or is it all plastic accessories?)
Great point remember we are using this a college training aid 👍
After further investigation all it was is that the cpc was there but not connected
What’s the main difference between gsh and efix? RUclips channels?
At 5:23 - why can't the main earth come in separately ? It wont induce any eddy currents unless there is a fault condition.
RCDs are meant to protect lighting circuits, I believe, in the 18th Edt? Therefore, they need a cpc? Is that a fail, code C2?
30mA RCDs are for "additional" protection only, therefore only a C3, unless there are unearthed metal accessories or the lighting cct passes through a bathroom or serves a hazardous area. Similar to the situation with socket-outlets (C3/C2). Good spot though.
Not sure what the point being made about eddy currents here is with respect to tails through consumer units. You need to state the scientific evidence that the effects of eddy currents in a consumer unit are likely to lead to over-heating, magnetization and current leakage to metal surfaces that could pose a safety issue.
On overheating John Ward has also covered these in a simple experiment which showed minuscule heat impact even with 100amp loading. The impact with respect to larger electrical equipment transformers is probably more significant. Maybe this is just good practice to avoid unwanted even insignificant effects and cleaner installs, but it’s important to clear up the issue whether it’s an actual safety or performance issue, or both. The science involving the work of foucalt, Lenz and maxwell equations describe the phenomena as it exists. Eddy current issue are more significant for motors, transformers and generators where performance loss issues and not just safety matters.
Eddy current are not just a nuisance their uses are extremely significant in for example undertaking non-destructive testing in identifying cracks in materials (useful for safety testing of planes) and magnetic levitation as in transportation.
The incoming supply/ double pole switch is still in its closed position, so the board is not fully isolated.
Hi, is up ON or is down ON? has the system got remote means of isolation...? all great questions Matt hopes his learners will be asking 🤔...
@@GSHElectrical normally on the Crabtree double pole switch, On or Closed position is up, and on the bottom part of the red switch lever is imprinted On, and the lever in the Off or Open position is down, and the red switch is imprinted Off anove the lever.
I know Kevin but we are hoping our learners will spot many things in this video as stated in the description and in the text of the video. (Remote DP switch isn’t fitted 🤫). Many thanks for commenting and watching. Gaz 🦾
@@GSHElectrical Point taken 👍, as usual, the videos are informative and a shame they were not around when I was starting out.
I wouldnt advise putting silicone around cable entries into CU, not all silicone is non combustible, fire mastic is the best option if the proper rated grommets are not available .
steve robinson remember we are using this as a training aid and want students to question and find issues within this board. Massive thanks for commenting 🦾. GSH
So Steve's comment is a good training aid to your students!
Teach them: never ever use "normal" sanitary silicone near electrical items, the gases during curing will corrode conductors and terminals (quickest way to kill a newly installed shower since silicone is unnecessary with modern designs), only ever touch neutral-cure silicone. But better not to use it at all here.
Is there a regulation regarding wire colours in SWA? You say "black used to be neutral so we should use that for earth"?? Makes no sense to me. I've always used black for neutral (sleeved blue but not always) and grey sleeved as earth. Seems like the most logical choice. In your video all the circuits are using black as neutral so how can using grey for a single circuit make more sense?
Remember EICR's are meant the be assessed by the regs that were in force at the time of installation! Not the current regs.
Make and record recommendations to bring installation up to current regs but pass the inspection!
An installation could be VIR AND BAKEALITE IF IT IS SOUND IT PASSES.
Unless its on private rental property its 18th regs then which can be a little confusing
You inspect and test to the current edition of bs7671 as stated in GN3
ian adams so 90+% of dwellings are now illegal!
Your house is probably illegal?
Steven Smith It is not a legal requirement to bring an electrical installation up to date with the current edition of bs7671, so no there’s nothing illegal about it.
As the beginning of bs7671 states, installations complying to earlier editions of this standard are not necessarily unsafe.
Also taken from the electrical safety best practice guide 4
The observations should be based on the requirements of the edition of BS 7671 current at the time of the inspection, not on the requirements of an earlier edition current at the time the installation was constructed.
Which makes perfect sense
ian adams I know
I agree
Next regs will be AFDD's is everyone going to run out and install them NO!
Just out of curiosity. Why does the two colours sticker matter that much. At the end of the day if you don’t have a clue what colour means what in new and old you shouldn’t be anywhere near electrics
Urban exploration Squad... love it great point 😁
The stickers are there to assist any fully qualified electricians from an EU country. One reason for harmonisation of colours throughout the EU is (was) to allow free movement of labour. If we go and do a job in France, we won't know what colours they used twenty years ago.
westinthewest that’s a fair point. Thanks for the info
I really don't agree that running tails through individual holes will cause any detrimental effect via Eddy currents.
However i do agree the board is questionable
Looks like spiderman has had a go at that dB lol
Hasn't the Eddy currents been shown time and time and time again, at domestic levels to be bupkis?
JW has a video on it and even he has disproved this myth also. And as far as I am concerned, his word is Gospel
It an exam question
The severity of eddy currents and the heating effect is mostly myth. You only have to look at the amount of powerlock panels out there to see it; up to 400A a phase and perfectly fine. Yeah the physics shows heating but the reality is in a domestic environment a board full of AFDDs will have more heat to disapate than one with separated tails.
A bit brave sticking your hand near that bus bar with the main switch still on ...
the double pole switch in the tails was isolated... remember this is a video for learners to ask questions just like your one... what else can you spot....?
Has it got a bus bar....? 🤔
It does. You can see it at 45 seconds
All points we want our learners to raise. 40 amp MCB on the shower 🤔. Circuit layout in relation to the RCCB’s. Tons of stuff and much more for Matt to cover in lesson 🦾
They are isolated as the RCDs are off, obvs I would isolate DP main switch and if there is an iso outside the CCU that too
DIY job perhaps or a landlord had it done on the cheap?
Maybe... 🤔
Its defo a DIY or cheap mate from the pub job? For starters, it’s a dual RCD, only cheapskates fit them, and too many schoolboy errors to be a proper sparky job
@@electricery why is this a cheap job? Dual RCD boards have been the standard for years and Crabtree are a decent brand. Based on the age of this installation it would never have used RCBOs.
I've seen a lot of "electricians" do a far worse job than this so I don't know why you'd assume it's a DIY job.
Chris W it’s DIY because there are so many basic compliance errors. Any electrician that produced a job that poor is either very inexperienced, a bodger that should be struck off or an apprentice with no supervision
Fact is, there will be almost zero eddy currents induced with this albeit incorrect installation.
But it’s an exam question 👍
@@GSHElectrical let's not let facts get in the way of the truth ha.