Is Light Armor or Heavy Armor better in 7 Days to Die?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 авг 2024
- SYNOPSIS:
►Let's do a deep dive into armor mechanics to determine the pros and cons of light armor and heavy armor in this Minute Tip episode.
PLAYLISTS:
►Frostbite (A20): • Alpha 20: My biggest c...
►Minute Tips (A20): • Wrench like a Pro in 7...
►The Road (A19):
• The Road
►Vanguard (A19):
• 7 Days to Die - VANGUARD
►One Night Stand:
• One Night Stand
►Music:
www.epidemicso...
►Tips and Tricks:
• [OUTDATED] Tips and Tr...
►Deep Dives:
• Deep Dives
►Cinematic Shorts:
• Cinematic Shorts
PATREON:
► / gunsnerdsandsteel
MERCH:
►my-store-b8475...
TWITTER:
► / gunsnerdssteel
DISCORD:
► / discord
EPIDEMIC SOUND - Referral Link
►epidemicsound....
#7DaysToDie #tipsandtricks #alpha20 Music by White Bat Audio
I tested out perfect steel armor vs perfect light armor, min maxed with heavy/light armor perks, banded armor plating mods and customized fittings and 3/3 rule 1 cardio (found max armor values from XMLS)
Max millitary armor= 12.2 Armor/slot
Max Steel Armor= 16 Armor/slot
16*5= 80
5*12.2=61
Add 5 banded armor plating mods to each (+10)
90 DR (HA) vs 71DR (LA)
crafted fireman helm is 11 armor +5% from friemans almanac 7, which is equivalent to a perfect steel/swat helm
so
Perfect Heavy Armor:
10.11 Stamina Regen a second
92% movement speed
90% Damage reduction
Perfect Light Armor
12.64 Stamina Regen a second
109% movement speed
71% Dmg reduction
one thing to note with this is that 71% means you take 29% dmg, and 90% means you only take 10% dmg
so you take almost 3 X as much dmg with max light armor vs max heavy armor
you also regenerate stamina 25% faster with Light Armor
one thing to note with pain tolerance is that it takes place after you get hit
so whats happens with 5/5 pain tolerance is you take the max damage, and then are immediately refunded 25% of the damage you took
so if you got hit for 20 dmg in HA you would take 2 dmg and get refunded .5 hp and would take 1.5 dmg
if you got hit for 20 dmg in LA you would take 5.8 dmg and get refunded for 1.45 hp and take 4.35 Dmg
I think Pain tolerance is much more value for light armor, but every bit helps
combine that with a fist build and you're 99%unkillable in a19. too bad they killed fist build in a20( damage seems nerfed)
This guy maths. Thanks tho dude
Did you include the college jacket? That makes another 5% DMG decrease and 10% movement speed
@@katsu_the_edgehog 90% damage resistance is the cap, and it also only adds 2.5% per piece with the ball cap. That's still quite nice and means you don't need perfect steel gear.
@@themonsoon117 ah alright thanks for the answer :)
Similar to Skyrim, I always intent to run a light armor build, but somehow always end up using heavy armor. I think I just prefer being a beefy tank over anything. That said, seeing the stats laid out like this is giving me more motivation to try and stick to a light armor build for once. & I love these short tip videos!
I usually go with Light armor for exploring and heavy armor for horde night or going into bigger POIs.
I like your style
I'd like to add that the firefighter's helmet gives 5% damage reduction (equaling +5 armor rating) if you have read firefighter's almanac vol 7, so while you are limited to level 5 (since it can only be crafted, not looted), it otherwise offers about the same stats as a level 5 steel helmet, and +15 heat insulation. Not massive by any means, but still, you get at most 19 effective armor rating (14+5, see above).A perfect set of steel armor, 5 pieces à 16 AR, makes for a base of 80 AR. Combined with a +2 armor plating mod per piece gives you a maximum of 90 (or 88+5 effectively with the firefighter's helmet). For every 100 damage you would take, only 10 (or 7) would make it through.
Actually damage reduction and armor are two entirely seperate stats, so you can't quite just look at it as extra armor. Armor reduces damage by 1% per point of armor, and up to 90 is achievable. After armor has reduced damage then comes % damage reduction and reduces damage of a % of the final amount. So take 100 damage, get it reduced by armor so it goes to 10, then the 5% damage reduction will take off another 0.5 damage. Same as how Pain Tolerance works and takes 2.5 off the final 10 at max rank (Eating Fortbites would take off 5). How different instances of damage reduction stacks tho i don't quite know, so i don't know if Pain Tolerance takes off 2.5 and then Fortbites takes off another 5 leaving you with 2.5 damage taken. I'd assume that it would be taking 50% off of the 7.5 damage tho leaving you with 3.75 taken in the end. Still very significant.
It's also important to note that suit jackets, suit pants, baseball caps, and college jackets reduce (with their respective perk books) by 2.5% each according to the code (with both together granting their listed 5%). This means that the perfect armor would include a college jacket (for the 10% increased run speed over the suit jacket) and suit pants for the 10% maximum damage reduction alongside the firefighter helmet. But, as the other commenter said that damage reduction applies AFTER the armor reduction. Still significant, I'm sure.
There was a lot more to this topic. and for how incredibly informative GN&S is, I'm a little disappointed this one doesn't give it the time it needs with the topic of damage reduction, perk books, and clothing/firefighter helmet. All that together would massively change the outcome.
I have never been entirely happy with the way armor is presented in this game. That said, I tend to stick to mobility based characters cuz I dont like to rely on RNG to fill out my character sheet.
This will be overhauled in Alpha 21 anyways, maybe it will be more to your liking then.
What rng besides loot? Tho military parts are more common sure. The blueprint is not. Besides end game your rng'ing either armor for tier 6 gear, regardless of crafting choices
The 18 % less armour is quite misleading, since it doesn't paint the correct picture what that actually means in terms of damage mitigation.
First off, the difference is also random, since every piece of armour has a randomised range of its armour rating and explosion resistance. From what I've observed so far, military armour maxes out at 12 armour rating per piece, while steel maxes out at 15 (give or take maybe a tenth of a point or so). So with 5 pieces, the average difference in armour rating between a full set of military vs steel should be about 15 percentage points.
So then, what does that actually mean in terms of damage. Let's compare the best sets of both, fully modded with Banded Plating mods for +2 armour rating per piece. That makes the best military armour set max out at about 70 % armour rating. So for every 100 damage you take, only 30 will get through. Meanwhile a similarly best possible steel set will max out at about 85 % armour rating, so for every 100 damage taken, only 15 will get through.
So, the 15 % difference between military and steel, while perhaps not seeming impressive on paper, actually translates to taking twice as much damage in military vs steel armour. Or put another way, steel offers double the damage reduction that military does!
So pretty much EXACTLY what he said in the video then?
Just your way is more complicated and requires reading.
@@brentonherbert7775 Not really, he didn't talk about the end result in terms of pure damage received. He compared Light to Heavy Armor ratings, not the result of having them equipped.
@@brentonherbert7775 If you read through the other comments, you'll see plenty of people going "Oh, so heavy is only 18 % better? Guess it's rubbish then." or similar. Clearly they got the wrong impression from the video just how big of a difference those "only 18 %" make to how much the armour actually protects you. That's the point that I tried to make clearer.
steel maxout at 90.
@@brentonherbert7775 I think you watched some other vid then. This explanation oddly is is easier to relate to imho than the vid. Tho the vid is ok.
Padded armor so underrated. EACH piece is like putting one point in pain tolerance! For the low cost of one duct tape each.
I'm day 50 Permadeath survivalist, 12h nights and I'm still in full padded armor. Mobility and stamina is king. Although with the urban combat book, the insane stamina regen of having unlimited beer and blackstrap, I am tempted to switch to heavier armor.
Yeah, padded is by far the best choice for early game where you dont have the mods and you got to spend your points on more important stuff. Scrap armor is overrated junk. But when you get the good mods and the skill points to spare, heavy becomes king from Iron onwards.
*Random Skillbook makes or breaks your entire build regardless of perks*
Yeah, that sounds about right for 7DTD
And random exaggerations kill the internet. Just one random person and it all goes to hell. So,... no. You can do just fine without the book an any difficulty and with any armor you like.
"A minor buff broke my build wah"
Bro just use advanced connectors lmao
@@Tech_Enthusiast_001 Minor? This makes you nearly 50% faster in combat while wearing heavy armor if you haven't invested in the heavy armor perks. That's a huge deal.
@@themonsoon117 Sounds like it, but does not play like it. Yeah, on paper it is a big thing. In reality, it simply is not. At that point of the game, you are steamrolling everything anyway. No matter what armor you use.
@@Tech_Enthusiast_001 If I'm guessing right, then you're probably not playing on higher difficulties or with ramped up speed modifiers. I play insane difficulty with nightmare speed(No feral sense, too much pain), and that speed difference is palpable. It makes melee builds 10X more viable since you can control the difference so much better.
When zombies are that fast, they can easily outrun you in steel gear or even unmodified military gear. It makes a horde base required while that skillbook means you could beat horde nights with steel armor and a steel club if you want. It's better than entire perklines, multiple combined in fact. Imo, it's no exaggeration to mention how that might be too important to be in an RNG skillbook.
I'm liking these short vids. It's amazing what can be accomplished in two minutes.
I always go for full heavy armour, like in most games where this is a choice. Personal preference, and makes the choice even easier when you find a supply crate with one of the new gift bags that gives you a full set of LvL 6 steel armour.
It would be nice if it was like terraria where you get a buff for wearing the complete set of armor. For example, reload speed with the tactical assault rifle, pistol, and SMG is reduced when wearing a full set of military armor, or a damage boost against radiated zombies when wearing a full hazmat suit
Apparently something like that might be coming in Alpha 21, according to what devs might have let out.
YES THANK YOU! I have been wondering this for the past week and I’m so glad you made a video!!!! You’re awesome!!!
i'd like to think we all learned something today
Today I learned: Take off your armor when mining as all armor (except Padded) reduces your natural 10 stamina/second regeneration.
light armor damage received is 42% of normal, heavy armor damage received is 24% of normal, so basically if you go light armor you are taking (42/24) 75% more damage in comparison to heavy. because 42 = 1.75 x 24
Great video, as usual. I thought you would have covered the use of fittings mods on different armors. I saw on reddit some time ago that you can increase you stamina and movement speed at a higher level that the base one, using fittings mods on leather or mititary armor.
Thanks for this!!! At least now clear (and factual) numbers will really help us surviving out there!
Glad it was helpful!
Um, much as I love GN&S and his videos (both entertaining & educational), this one's not all that great. It overlooks a lot of how armor works. And is somewhat misleading in that armor has variable stats, like the damage on weapons. In some types of armor 'extremely' variable stats.
I'd still recomment subscribing to him though, this is the first video I've seen of his which isn't spot-on.
Bottom line, you should avoid heavy armor until you're at very high game stage, and you have an extremely clear idea of what loot you need to make heavy armor perform well. Early & mid game heavy armor is atrocious and needs to be re-balanced. It only becomes possibly interesting if you find Urban Combat 6. Otherwise, avoid it until very late game.
You may have less armor on with light, but with proper skill you can manipulate and outmaneuver and entire blood moon horde with the only damage taken coming from vultures and occasionally spiders. Pair it with parkour for extra survivability in the city
Basically light armor gives you damage mitigation that you don’t see, bc you’re not getting hit to see it.
It takes awhile to find perfect or near perfect heavy armor in the game, fully perked and modded. Still, I prefer to wear armor appropriate to what I'm doing. I prefer light or padded when sneaking/exploring and heavy armor when fighting horde in base or tanking a POI with a build that can do that. When taking on horde night in the street>light armor or heavy armor if fully perked. Basically an armor style should be used appropriately for a given tactic, build, etc.
Not a bad idea at all!
Going to criticize a little bit no offense intended. But this video felt rushed and not up to your normal standards. I know this is just one of your short videos but I feel like this could be a longer video and even I short form could have been better explained. Really enjoyed your channel since I discovered it and I’d like to see you do this one again in more detail.
This could be an hour-long video really.
And unfortunately, the conclusions would all be very different if explored in detail.
But Urban Combat 6 is a good book for people who want to try to use heavy armor. So that is a good tip, in and of itself.
I want short videos I don't have time to listen to a hour long video.
This has me wondering if there is any way to optimize a mixture of light and heavy.
you can wear mixture of them. armor rating matters in total and not depending on body parts. but then you have to level up both armor type in tress which gives boost to the armor which dosent show in the stat card.
I don't really see it worth it imo. each has a use and if you mix it, you kind of just get the worst of both worlds and you lose the function awarded by going one over the other.
So for example, You want to be mobile but have a little extra protection so you wear a steel chest piece... Now you get an almost negligible increase in protection for a larger decrease in mobility function.
In for a penny in for a pound is kind of how 7d2d is built in all things.
Heavy armor is better if you don't mind taking some punishment, while light armor is better for a stealth approach. If you don't like sneaking, go heavy armor ASAP. The mobility/stamina penalty is negligible (since you're gonna be using vehicles most of the time and for clearing POI's you're gonna be faster just smashing everything instead of going stealthy). Also, some events like final loot zeds and bloodmoon hordes are coded, so you'll trigger them even sneaking around and they'll target you instantly, so I don't recommend light armor in the long run.
I want to know the speeds in a race. Like no armour, running shoes and college jacket vs light and heavy armour vs bicycle. Would be interesting side by sides.
- When comparing percentage damage reduction effects in games (no matter if from armor or something else), it is always better, to look at the damage that bypasses the armor, since that is, what hurts you.
- Stating percent differnces between two DR-values, like the 58% (Military Armor DR) to 76% (Steel Armor DR) difference of 18%, can be very misleading. If I go from 20% to 30% DR (80 to 70% dmg), 10% difference doesn't seem too much. But if I have the same 10% differnce, going form 85% to 95% DR (15 to 5% dmg), that means I take only one third of the dmg, which makes a huge difference. In the extreme case, going from 90 to 100% DR (10 to 0%) dmg, it can mean going from still vulnerable to invulnerability.
- Similarly, comparing the bypassing dmg of 42% for Military Armor and 24% for Steel Armor is more useful, since it shows that you take 42/24=1.75 times the dmg or in other words 75% more dmg with military armor, than with steel armor. That is the more telling comparison.
- Also with 33 vs 27 crit resistance, you can take 33/27=1,22 -> 22% more hits, before you suffer a critical condition. In some circumstances, this can make a big difference, e.g. getting a critical condition every two instead of every hit.
- Fitting and Muffling mods can make heavy armor much more usable.
- Mixing armor can also make sense. In Lategame, I usually combine the Military Stealth Boots with Steel for the rest. With Advance Muffling in all armor parts and maxed out sneaking skills, you can still do successful stealth, that way.
- By adding banded armor mods and raising the DR of heavy armor from 76% to 86%, you lower the dmg from 24 to 14%. For Mil Armor you go from 42 to 32%. That means with fully modded armor, you get 32/14=2,3 times the dmg with mil armor or 130% more dmg. So the relative benefit of armor increasing mods is better for heavy armor. Because of this, I often start out with light armor and transition into heavy armor, when i get the banded armor mods and steel armor unlocked.
I prefer mobility over toughness. I never like getting hit afterall so i just avoid...
Agreed
Usually I just bring both military (light) armor and steel (heavy) armor for like switching styles if I want to just go different perks and gimmick change of pace
I can't stand moving slowly or having slow stamina regen. So I'm always going with light armor.
Same here
First go into the melee perks for stamina regen, or machine guns for stamina per shot....second batter up vol set means killing with power attacks fill up your stamina to FULL. Yes that's right full 100%.
Secondly the difference in total running distance is moot you should be hit and running, aka killing. Heavy armors disadvantages are basically negated. Without books, which is rng, your stuck going clubs machine guns to negate heavy armor penalties but clubs are in str build tree anyways
Plus clubs are the best melee currently....mostly cause other options suck, sledge being the worst, spears are a joke....but better then sledgehammer. Knifes are ok....ish, and we don't talk about batons...they don't deserve it
@@EnlonWhite Ya clubs are very good right now. I agree with everything you say but Fist weapons can also be really great. I still need to try a stun batons because I think they can be very good as well. But like you said, sledge is slow and dumb/too much stamina use, spears exist for some reason, and knives only exist to make zombies run because you have to smack them 3 thousand times.
@@hondragrid I find the machette is ok, you only need to hit about 30% more then a club to kill.....but hunting knifes are for Dismemberment chance rolls, aka with two perks into S.Tyranasaurous and a grip mod I can power attack with the hunting knife forever no issues, but you should have agility maxed and your rolling for that dismemberment chance (base 50% at max agility). So you need the stamina reduction for melee if you going melee, it helps to much compared to not choosing to get them. especially that Eco grip for stamina reduction.
Without stamina reductions the Machette sucks, the club gets a few issues with amount of swings on some moments.
As for stun batons, they feel like want to be clubs but weaker....so much weaker.
Spears sadly are just so ......meh, you dont want to throw it for more reasons then I need to state. even if spears always instant killed when thrown, this throwing ability would be terrible.
Fist weapons are risk, reward, but fun. They are fun to use but your going to get a lot of risk running them. I mean you have to run heavy armor, (or be in a worse situation). I find when doing fist weapons I need to heal crits a lot more. Fun stuff but not as safe. Currently they are in a good spot.
Do you plan on doing a video explaining the skill books of the game ? some of them are pretty bad explained , like the one that make you get more gems from coffins , you actually have to wrench them to get the gems
I will look into this, thanks for the suggestion
Oh you salvage them....ty was wondering what that book did
That's good to know! Probably applies to the 'doorknobs from doors' skillbook, too.
Max steel armor + 25% dmg reduction from fortitude tree makes you almost unkillable, plus you won't get far less chances of being hit with a critical strike than wearing light armor
First Heavy armor is better, I like lighter armor builds in games usually. But in 7dtd Heavy just wins for several reason,
First Urban combat vl6......no mobility issues with heavy armor.
Second way more damage prevention, and a bit more crit resistance.
3rd, most stealth is going to fail in tier 3 or higher POI's due to attack triggers and such. So your going to end up going loud most likely anyways.
So noise isnt an issue really.
4th with the right mods/pts in heavy armor perks you can really bump up your armor and reduce the mobility penalty a bunch, to were it really doesnt hurt you.
Last but a special if, is if you use feral sense, stealth is double dead and pointless, which is what light armor really is mainly for, so put on that heavy armor as feral sense your going to get hit more.
I am replying, to my comment as I been challenged on some stealth and armor thoughts.
End game I have a full tier 6 steel armor set with Best custom fittings, armor plate mods (+2), and the Adv. Mufflers to compare stealth and mobility.
vs
Full military tier 6 except the boots, went with crafted stealth boots same important mods as the steel armor but boots dont need the adv muffler mod. (they have 0% noise increase Naturally)
I went full stealth perks, and full LIght armor only
I find that my stealth bar with the heavy never really goes higher then 21 with about a 14 average when moving (full urban combat and the other books for stealth)
out of combat in steel armor mobility is at 86% i believe. but i have 21% more armor then the light.
with the military armor I saw an average of about 6 on stealth meter, and spikes still got up to 19 highest.
mobility was at 94% tho i was missing one custom fitted mod.
Since most zed dont flinch til you get to about 23 on the stealth meter, I can stealth in heavy armor then just fine....not really loot while stealth in heavy but clear out the room/ area of the POI and loot after is fine, cause you only could alert those near you.
I will test with feral sense after this but i am sure its going to be,
zeds wake at all = instant GPS onto you regardless of stealth benefits.
Even with the meter below 21 zeds can sometimes wake, or trigger rooms with auto wake them, with NO feral sense you Can hide with max stealth (NO LESS THEN MAX perks in this) and NOT IN LIGHT. In this case since of the auto wake up feral sense would just say "F U" to trying to hide. With FERAL Sense people i cannot stress this enough, STEALTH IS DEAD.
It was a bit confusing to see the light armor in inventory while discussing heavy armor. Can you do another video and include mods (Banded Armor, Advanced Muffle Connectors, Customized Fittings)? That would be much appreciated!
that was really informative.
And now I can finally slap this vid in my buddies faces when they, jokingly, shitalk me for going heavy armor.
Cause I always say: yes, you get hit less often, but i dont even feel the zs hitting me.
Keep up the good work
Unfortunately... you need Urban Combat 6, or a full set of tier 5 or 6 steel or swat, with "lucky RNG armor stats", and +2 armor mods, & custom fittings mods... in order to make heavy armor interesting. It can suddenly get super-strong very deep into end-game. Otherwise, light armor really is better. TFP very badly need to tweak how heavy armor works in early & mid game.
Depends upon one's playstyle. If one's doing a lot of interior fighting one may want to go for a tank. Outside you may need more freedom of movement especially from enemies of the aerial variety.
@@brodriguez11000 Also, on horde night, if your base doesn't have an escape route anyway, may as well go heavy & slow ;)
My friends were laughing their asses off as i was eating 20 zombies at once as a heavy tank brawler lol, i couldn't actually get killed
I'm impatient and I like max mobility so I tend to stick with padded armour until I have a full set of military at grade 6. Then again, I also play at default difficulty, so... yeah.
Admittedly I don't play to high levels but I've found Padded Armor works best with an Agility build. It doesn't have any penalties to stamina or speed and you can usually find a 5-6 level set from random loot at low levels. This saves having to put any points into the skill.
Great tip here
The rating of the armor changes per item. You have to check the stats of each item so you know if it is better that the one you already had. This will effect the numbers you showed in the video.
was going to post basically this- armor pieces even in creative mode have variable stats
other points to note:
padded armor cannot install noise or mobility mods, but leather and military can, meaning you are able to get a positive stamina gain and mobility from wearing modded light armor with 2+ perks in the skill
though leather is often inferior to padded until you have the mods, for this reason
for pure damage reduction a well rolled set of steel simply dominates. you can hit either 87% or 90% once modded up- and you'll eventually find that urban book anyway
getting a good set is a nightmare that can takes hundreds of days., great rolled iron works almost as well as bad steel
only reason not to wear heavy armor 24/7 (once you have that book) is the noise, which matters quite a bit
for "which one's better" the answer is simply >get both.
heavy for horde night, light for daily life.
as for the more important question "which to spend points on" there is no question here- always spec into light armor if you are going to put points into armor at all
steel armor crafting cost is also prohibitive to say the least, and you can only craft QL5. and you'll need to roll it, quite a bit, to beat out easily found iron armor.
a looted QL6 set of padded armor can work just fine for most players going normal days, without any of the drawbacks of wearing armor, or the hassle of spending perk points on it
Yeah, I pointed that out in my post as well. Well in a self-reply to my post, call it an addendum :P
As well as the severe lack of viability of heavy armor in early & mid game.
@@Thorngral I agree.
heavy armor needs to be re-balanced (badly).
The only way to make it "really good" is to loot like 4 or 5 sets of t6 steel/swat, and cross your fingers. And have 5 customized fittings mods, and 5 +2 armor mods, plus urban combat 6.
I'm not saying heavy armor sucks because I'm "team light armor", but rather because I'd like to wear heavy armor sometime, but it's just not very viable.
I feel like 95% of people on youtube though, run around in scrap armor, and sell their college jacket in order to wear a duster. And then say things like "oh no, I can't get away" or "stamina really needs to be fixed in this game!" ...
@@kathrynck by 95% you mean Neebs... don't you? lol
They aren't elite players, they are forever noobs by design. ;)
Most other youtubers worth their salt know what they are doing.
@@talyn3932 I know, they create "skits" and just use games as a delivery system (easier than animation). I don't expect much. But compared to most people with a few hours in a game, they're alarmingly bad at them ;)
Light armor for me, since I go for a more "hybrid" build. I only arm, leg, head armor since only these parts receive the debuff affects.
The only way to justify going heavy armor is if you are getting hit a lot. In my experience and by watching certain hardcore permadeath players is that it's much more beneficial to master not getting hit instead of trying to tank everything. Besides, tanking in this game is reserved for warrior> difficulty. On higher difficulties crits don't allow it.
Fully modded military armour provides 65-70% damage reduction plus another 25% from pain tolerance and you are looking at a total damage reduction of 72.5-77.5%. Now, unless you are bound on tanking everything, you are not dying as long as you kite around and have bandages. (zombie bear deals 87 damage on insane with 0% damage reduction and that's cut down to 20-25)
Style over anything else
Millitary armour sets, a hat of your choice or none, night vision goggle for the SpecOps vibe
I do light armor at the beginning. But keep my eye out for tier 5 and 6 heavy armor. Once I have the whole set or most of it. I will then sink points into it. So I do both. lol
I've played for 1500+ hours, and I only just tried heavy armor recently. I was amazed at how much more survivable I was with my stumbling combat style. But for the first 3 game days, I kept checking my status screen to find out what disease was slowing me down, before realizing it was the armor. Once I got used to it, I was happy with the armor, but I still like the speed of the light.
Yeah I simply cannot get used to wearing heavy armor
Light Armor gives the best feature of being able to GTFO easier when you end up taking on too many at once, the extra armor from Heavy Armor usually isn't enough to make that situation more survivable.
You like to go swoosh jumpy dashy? Light armor. Are you a slower, more methodical brawler? Heavy. Rest doesn´t really matter. Bring a stack or two of coffee, perk up in relevant perks, and stamina won´t really be an issue either way, so it´s just the movement speed that is relevant.
One thing about this tho ... 50% dmg reduction on light armor vs 75% dmg reduction isn't exacly "21% less damage taken" it's 50% less damage taken with heavy armor. If a hit does 100dmg you take 50 with light but only 25 with heavy which half aka 50%
In A21 i get tons of effects when getting hit even tho i wear steel armor. So the biggest advantage of heavy seems to be gone.
Getting a strong Project Farm vibe
Thanks fer Sharing... Good Stuff as always... I use Mil Armor...
personally I prefer padded or leather since they are so much lighter than military armor. plus the military set looks bad.
Light armor is like way better as long as you are on foot and doing stuff outside your base. Mobility is really important.
Heavy is better if you are just guarding your base or driving around and only real concern is not getting hit by cops and birds.
That said you can generally just use meds when hit by ranged attacks, so light armor is better for most part. Especially since you can get stuff that increases your movement speed. The game is time sensitive, so if you theoretically have +10% movement speed it means that every 10 days of time passing you get extra 1 day of action. In reality its much less cause you are doing other things instead of moving, but every % of movement speed counts toward you doing more stuff, at least in early game.
Not that sure for late game stuff, I honestly don't like endgame game play.
Aww, should have went into the difference in early game.
In early game the penalties of heavier armor are the same as in end-game. But the benefits are tiny by comparison.
In late game, with perks and books, heavy armor becomes viable, a worthy competitor for light armor. But early game, heavy armor is garbage.
also there are mods that decrease the penalty in mobility, as well as mods that increase damage resistance, late game with a steel 6 set with mods you get mobility 95% or so, with damage resistance of 90%-ish. As Kathrynck said early game heavy is garbage, and only worth it late game once you have mods for it and sneak/noise becomes irrelevant
I'm just cognizant of the speed difference when I'm wearing heavy armor regardless of the stage of the game that I'm at, and I just feel throttled when I'm not in light armor, or naked.
PS: the armor value and crit resist of armor is variable. It has the +/- RNG like weapon damage does. The raw stats on the armor (without perks/books) are:
Padded Armor: 20.5% to 36.5% armor for the set // 20.5% crit resist // -0 movement, -0 stamina regen, +0 noise (excellent armor, all playstyles)
Leather Armor: 26.5% to 51% armor for the set // 21.5% to 26.5% crit resist // -20% movement, -28% stamina regen, +50% noise (viable w perks, if it rolls RNG well)
Military Armor: 31% to 61% armor for the set // 25% to 30.5% crit resist // -20% movement, -28% stamina regen, +50% noise (viable w perks, if it rolls RNG well)
Scrap Armor: 37.5% to 53.5% armor for the set // 27% crit resist // -30% movement, -45% stamina regen, +100% noise (not viable, ever, the traders are stupid to pay so much for it)
Iron Armor: 36.5% to 70% armor for the set // 27.5% to 34% crit resist // -30% movement, -45% stamina regen, +100% noise (semi-viable w perks, IF it rolls RNG 'extremely' well)
Steel/Swat: 41% to 80% armor for the set // 30.5% to 38% crit resist // -30% movement, -45% stamina regen, +100% noise (excellent w perks, IF it rolls RNG well)
With perks it's possible to remove 75% of the light armor movement & stamina regen penalties, but only 25% of the heavy armor movement & stamina penalties. Which means specializing in heavy armor makes you SLOWWW, if you don't have that #6 book. And the stamina regen is painful, and will help keep you starving constantly.
BUT, the armor resist value becomes exponentially stronger the closer you get to 100%. 90% armor is twice as good as 80% armor (take 10% damage or 20% damage, the former allows you to survive twice as many hits). This exponential increase in the value of armor doesn't really start to ramp up noticeably until past 50 armor though. For a Light Armor spec, a +2 armor mod is very helpful. But for a Heavy Armor spec, the +2 armor mods should be understood to be among the most valuable items in the game.
Heavy armor is beyond terrible in early game. It makes you slower than molasses in Antarctica, you never have stamina, and your stamina regen sucks food and drink out of your body like a mosquito the size of a condor on your back. It only gets good at around 70% or higher armor. But if you get "perfect RNG" steel armor, and five +2 armor mods, you're in god-mode.
The whole system needs to be re-balanced very badly. Namely, heavy armor needs to be buffed to be viable throughout most of the game progression. I'd give all types of heavy armor less of an RNG chance of sucking, and stronger crit resist across all heavy armor types as well. And I'd give scrap armor much lighter penalties, and iron armor slightly lighter penalties. That would help make heavy armor more competitive with light armor. As it is in-game now (and for as long as I've played 7d2d) Light armor is better than heavy armor in all but very high game stage, even if you have no intention of using stealth.
You shouldn't have to find one specific book (out of 133 somewhat rare books) just to make heavy armor worthwhile in the first 50 or more days. It creates a kind of "gatekeeper" effect on heavy armor, but it limits the value of the starting gear instead of only the high-GS gear, and you can't wrench down street lights to work around it. For things like the recipe to create military armor, at least leather armor is good with perks. But scrap armor, and 'most' iron armor too, are fairly worthless without that book.
(this is all completely apart from preferences in play-style)
@@geepeet with the customized fittings mods, you can remove half of the movement and stamina penalty of heavy armor (assuming you have all 5 pieces with that mod installed). And that is the stronger version of the mod. The heavy armor perk reduces the remaining effective stamina/movement penalties by 25% (of 50%) so you end up retaining 37.5% of your movement & stamina penalty. The movement penalty is 30% so you end up with 11.25% movement penalty (with 5/5 perks and the best mods). The stamina regen penalty is 45% so you end up with 16% stamina regen penalty (with 5/5 perks and the best mods).
It definitely helps, but it doesn't make the penalties negligible. It's about like a negative college jacket, plus 1.5 points in negative rule 1 cardio. Anyway, my problem with how heavy armor is balanced is mainly that it's horrible in early game. When you have maybe 2 points in heavy armor, a couple of the weaker fittings mods, and a mix of scrap & iron armor, you're just hurting yourself.
At t6 steel with high RNG rolls on the armor value, heavy armor is very strong (crazy-insane strong if you add five +2 armor mods). But scrap armor (and usually iron armor) is vendor trash, regardless of playstyle.
@@vetheros Yeah, it's worth exploring steel or swat armor in late game, parhaps after a forgetting elixir. If you get high RNG on the armor stat (the RNG has a wide range), and you get five customized fittings mods, and five +2 armor mods... it's surprisingly powerful. You're slow, but you can go punch a bear :P Ironically the Heavy Armor perk barely helps though, even at 5/5. But heavy armor sucks bad in early/mid game (unless you happen to find that urban combat book).
I always main a melee so I'm always team heavy. Plus other perks and you indestructible unless it's a horde of fetal wights
A little dissapointed you went into the perk book but not the mods, like improved fittings, which reduce the stamina and mobility penalties for armor, banded armor plating, muffled connections, etc.
So...new to the game. Having a blast and binged 100 hours already. Any benifit to running a mix of both other than pure aesthetics/character style?
Great info thanks fer the legwork
No problem 👍
Is there a future video planned, where you touch on what types of mod load outs affect how you use those armors?
I could look into this!
@@GunsNerdsandSteel please do a full breakdown. mods change everything for armor
Do the damage mitigation for certain clothing types (when having read the appropriate perk books) just add to the player total armor rating? And what is the max damage mitigation you can get from those perks? I.e. perk books to take less damage while wearing suit, firefighters helmet, and college jacket.
I love your content/vids as a stealth class this left me with some questions still -- I'm new to the game still and have been trying to figure out if padded was better than leather/military for a stealthy bow user like me.
@@shaunhayes3072 I appreciate the answer, thanks!
Not quite sure about stealthiness, but at least for mobility you're actually better off upgrading to leather/military once you've fully upgraded the light armor perk and have found a set of customized fittings, as this will actually get you above 100% mobility and leave you with even better stamina sustain than while naked/wearing padded. I believe with a full set of advanced muffled connectors you might actually be more stealthy too if you spec into From The Shadows. Just something to keep in mind :)
I haven't actually paid attention to this too closely. Does the stamina removal buff from Urban Combat Volume 6 activate when you strike an enemy, or does it only apply when the player takes damage from a hostile entity?
In by testing it does not activate when the zombie locks on you, but when you are engaged either by being hit or hitting a zombie it will activate the buff.
@@GunsNerdsandSteel So that means it works for stealth too, good to know!
Not sure. It might activate when you get aggro, along with the combat music.
I generally don't even consider wearing heavy armor until Steel/Swat is available. So I haven't gone out of my way to get this book really.
@@GunsNerdsandSteel Cheers, good to know, thanks. :)
@@kathrynck I'm relatively the same. I stick with padded until I can craft quality level 5 iron armor, then I slowly replace it with steel as I find it in loot drops.
Most wondered question ever lol
Heevy build stronk
what defines 'Combat' according to Urban Combat?
heavy armor needs buffs according to me, 18% more armor for all the other tradeoffs? No way jose.
It gets very powerful at the extreme high quality, IF you get lucky RNG on the armor stat, and you have lots of mods, perks, and books. The stats quoted in this video are not really representative of how the armor types work. And the way % damage mitigation works at high % numbers starts to do some wild things with "effective health".
But throughout most of the game, heavy armor is garbage, yeah.
(hey, it's the first video from GN&S that has been a swing & a miss, he's usually got fantastic videos/tips).
@@kathrynck im all for optimizing, and a dreamer, but if what you say is true, getting to that coveted lvl 50+ level and gamestage, finding a perfect roll armor with high rolls+ all pieces to slot into your perfected build is just that, a drea, on paper perfect, but outside those perfect parameters it is all but a dream that may come true, may. if you play long enough on one save.
@@pharaohthutmosis7803 yeah. I just don't worry about heavy armor for most of the game, and save t5/6 steel/swat armor that I loot. If I start to get a decent set together, and I have custom fittings & banded armor mod recipes, maybe it's time for a forgetin elixir. If not, I'll just stay in light armor.
light armor takes 75% more damage than heavy
I have a question for ya. Does lucky looter glasses/perk/eye candy effect what is in the box before or after you open it? ie. do you get the same thing if you open/unlock the crate/box before using said items and perks or does it calculate it when you actually go to loot the container.
Searching the container is when the loot stage is used to calculate the quality of whats in the box. anyone can lock-pick or de-crate the container without worry about affecting the loot quality
@@stevdor6146 cool, have always been curious about when exactly loot is calculated. thanks
Ahhh, sounds like...there's no clear winner, then, more about playstyle? it does seem like light armor has more benefits and fewer drawbacks, maybe if heavy armor was...buffed just a bit more in the defense it'd be more appealing?
Probably the best tactic I've seen and suggested is to wear heavy armor during horde night and light armor when you're out and about questing
@@GunsNerdsandSteel that's more or less what I was starting to ponder. I'm a hoarder so I'll figure things out.
Light armor is the way to go. You just need some reasonable protection for those instances when you get too cocky and manage to get hit. If you're relying on your armor then it's probably because you're just bumrushing everything and getting swarmed by huge groups of zombies all the time. You shouldn't really be getting hit enough playing 7 days for armor to matter all that much. If you're getting hit enough for it to matter then no armor is going to save you.
I still think it’s stupid how military armor is not the best armor in the game
It does reduce noise though...
Please can you cover electricity? I'm interested in solar panels
i'm curious if detaching the solar panel on a timer ( Solar -> Timer -> Battery Bank -> Powered Stuff ) allows the battery bank to drain over night, this used to glitch in a18-a19 and it wouldn't "detach" ( and you would have 0 power from nighttime solar being considered as the total system usable power instead of the battery ) , or if this was fixed and the work-around is no longer needed. @Guns, Nerds, and Steel
with another timer between battery bank and powered stuff you can efectively run [Max Battery Bank load] off of a single cheap solar cell as the charge requires only 5w regardless.
making 3 setups like this - one [charing morning-midday, running midday-evening], one [charging midday-evening, running morning-midday], one [charging morning-evening, running evening-morning] you can have 24/7 one out of three 1/3 lines of power usable that would run much higher loads than the solar can provide by direct connection. The downside is that we don't have a power combiner, so the systems that utilize the power need to be triplicate. Overall this would cost more materials and craft time/setup, the advantage being the low number of solar cells required to build a high power system. (as they're expensive and require sec. stash to even buy )
@@geepeet : They are which is why one uses all the perks, candy, and foods to lower it as much as possible.
I feel like you made a video like this before also when did ou almost get 25k subs last tim I saw you I think you had like 12k
But what if we just like how one of them LOOKS? 😅 Show me new character model options in A21, amirite?!
I would definitely miss the look of the military armor if they replace it in Alpha 21
@@GunsNerdsandSteel Honestly military armor is my favorite look, too. Iron and steel - though I tend to run a heavy armor build - just don't look as cool I think.
Heavy wins the race :P
There is one really important thing that I think you need to mention. if you get hit for 100 damage-
In military armour you take 42 damage (100-58%)
In steel armour you take 24 damage (100-76%)
So steel armour gives you 43% extra damage mitigation vs military armour.
Best is no armor. I mean seriously, Just try it out
Think I'd rather have more mobility and avoid damage than be able to take more.
With the maxed out steel, and the urban combat book, and pain tolerance you can take basically no damage from attacks. It's amazing, especially with the cheap shots that can happen sometimes.
@@NoodleKeeper oh yeah, I'm not saying heavy doesn't have its advantages, just that I personally prefer to be able to move as fast as possible. I also play to relax and enjoy myself, so my settings aren't as difficult as what Tem runs in his videos. So I guess overall less of a factor for me and I'm able to survive with military armor just fine.
@@GrandPrix46 Fair enough. I started wearing light armor on my most recent game so I can be a stealth archer. It's pretty fun.
@@NoodleKeeper one of the things I like most about this game is the freedom to do anything, and play any way you feel like.
Ive been wearing light armor a lot more in alpha 20.
This locked it in, screw the heavy armor!
Heavy Armor may need some buffing
Lol good and all but talking servers aka pvp either way light or heavy your still a one shot for most any player the highest I've seen on military armour is 13 on lvl 6 military and 16 on lvl 6 steel so 75 and 90 ar (with banded plate giving 10ar) light armor has just always seemed better too me minor dmg res drop but greater speed and stamina which is needed in pvp if your not 1 shot hide heal and kill
Steel/Swat (if it gets really lucky RNG rolls for armor stat), WITH customized fittings & +2 armor mod recipes (so you can put them on all 5 pieces)... can be really powerful. The max armor of military should be 71% (with +2's), and the max armor of steel/swat should be 90% (with +2's). Which ok, 19% doesn't sound like a huge difference, but 90% has three times the "effective health" of 70%.
But that's very late-game, with lots of perks, books, and some lucky t6 steel/swat loot finds. For most of the game, heavy armor kinda sucks. If you happen to find custom fittings mod recipe, and urbaon combat 6 (before late game I mean) it becomes a lot more tempting. Otherwise just roll light armor and maybe a forget'n elixir someday when you have heavy armor worth using ;)
None is good at all while playing Bloodmoons with 25 fps on rigs north of 3k USD
Shoulda just let the Fun Pimps debut the new armor sets. This armor system is boring.
Yeah it's boring, but I don't want the other end of the spectrum which is like cosplay outfits 🤷♂️
$$$
SAD THING, I don't care.....I use what i like " look wise" and deal with it