Have you played darkness falls you catch fire 20 to 100 times minimum on horde night. You either have to have a pool near by, alot of water in inventory or need a mod to drink murky water. So pack mule is more valuable in darkness falls. Having low inventory places because of lack number of pocket Mods are the worst but ya in vanilla I could see the pack mule being the worth perk.
@@The_Crimson_Fukrthat’s why I use a backpack extender mod because it actually makes that perk useful plus you don’t have to deal with the laughably small vanilla inventory
Wanna know how to fix pack mule? Have it increase the stack limit. Like imagine from 5 first aid bandages in a stack, to 10. So carrying 40 would take 4 slots instead of 8 slots. What do you think?
That would legit make it a useful perk. Allowing you to, for instance, maybe stack some otherwise unstackable items (small stacks), like engines and the likes. And of course, as you said, increasing stack sizes of existing items.
i like what they did in undead legacy. they threw the item slot idea out the window and just made it a weight system for inventory. ya start with 100 lbs. each rank of pack mule adds another 20 lbs to the cap. it stacks with mods that increase inventory size too. becomes instantly useful on the early game and is still useful at end game since it lets you chill out in the field longer before having to RTB to offload stuff to then go back out again.
I like spending 1 skill point into tracking as rabbits and chickens can be hard to see in grass. Although every other level falls into the "just look around" category
I found it helpful early game, till I got a compound xbow with a 4x scope and annihilated everything. Good to find snakes in the wasteland and certian POIs. Pesky critters but tasty!
Many versions ago getting too cold would cause your HP to drain until you warmed up. Back then you could also freeze to death on a sunny day in the forest by wearing things like cowboy hats, tank tops and short shorts, but you'd be fine if you were naked.
For me... the flashlight mod is a MUST! especially when going on night missions or just being in a house and suddenly the weather gets all rainy and foggy and for some reason, everything becomes pitch dark... so yeah. Not gonna waste my eye treasure find goggles for a night vision goggles.
Tbf. I've been getting better at seeing in this setting. Especially be relying on Agility for Sneak as much as my Cloth Armor that I stick by and will die on that hill. I'm a perception build mainly, but I do a lot of zip zooming and sneaking with agility. Can easily pop a bunch of heads with a magnum and a rifle. When you're sneaking around and they cannot hear you for the life of them, you always get the drop. And since cloth armor has no movement penalties nor noise penalties, you can focus all your endeavors into speed and other mods that are more relevant. And because cloth is so easy to come by, repairing them is easy. And given that the light armor perks make them more effective and more durable, you really rarely ever need to repair them in general.
Most of these have had the game pass them by. Things like the weather has changed so it's not harsh like it used to be in some previous Alphas. You used to really need those slots in clothes and armor to put mods so you wouldn't burn up or freeze to death. You always had to drink red tea in the desert to stay cool and when you had the mod in your armor you didn't need to drink red tea all the time.
You have to go to the desert to get shale and that'd take a while where you'd be drinking tons of red tea to be mining - and had to take all your armor off to stay cool. If you had the mods on instead of pocket mods you could keep your armor on.
I love that you mention the opportunity cost for these perks. In a vacuum many of these are 'ok' but points spent on them are points you can't spend elsewhere.
@@josephg.1.130 300, which I think lets you get every perk (because you get 4 more from the tutorial quest). And after level 60, every level up is the same amount of EXP. (I think, 7dtd wiki said that but it's possible it changed) Really it's all about how you build your character.
Well, this video hasn't aged too badly. This was written for Alpha 20, and we're in Alpha 21 today. The perks mentioned are about as useful now as they were then. There are two major changes that make some of the comments invalid. First is water. In Alpha 20 water was easy to obtain. Alpha 21 made the helmet water filter actually a good item. Also you can't use yucca plants to make drinks without having pure water. Yucca works like tea in previous itterations, you add it to water instead of squeezing the yucca to make a drink. The second change in 21 that impacts the comments is loot changed. Tons of crafting magazines were added to the loot tables. It makes it much harder to get what use to be fairly common loot. Perk Magazines are slightly harder to find. Pocket mods are slightly more rare. The trader offers less armor than he use to. The general quality of quest rewards has gone down, partially to accommodate adding a 6th tier to quests and loot. You can still get everything talked about here, just it will take a bit longer.
Over 4k hours in the game and I still take 1-2 point in pack mule upon landing. At low levels you are the nost vulnerable and most likely to be packed to the brim constantly. I loathe all the time it takes to walk everywhere and I watch my teammates go at the speed of smell constantly. By the time you're tricked out in bikes and pocket mods you can easily afford to respec out of a number of early game talents that become useless through books and non repetitive needs, and I'd suggest players take skill points with that in mind if they are looking to be that efficient. You can pry my pack mule from my cold dead hands.
The Treasure perks were hella good in the early versions where treasure hunting was just based on... a sound effect telling you you were semi closer. So reducing the amount of area you had to search mattered a lot unless you just had a psychic sense for always knowing where it was buried. You could, without the perks, spend an absurd amount of time trying to find treasure, it wasn't foolproof like I guess it is now.
If A21 ever happens, that helmet filter mod would be great to have. Set up a small well using your water bucket, and drink yellow water from it whenever you stop by your base! Set one up near each trader, and drink swamp donkey runoff every time you go to turn in quests! All the sewage, all the time!
I've always felt that buried treasure missions would be a bit better if they went up to higher tiers, and thus gave higher rewards. What I couldn't think of was how to properly scale the difficulty of such encounters. They already throw a decent number of zombies at you all at once, without the ability to kite them through a POI like other missions, so more/harder zombies probably isn't the answer. On multiplayer servers it can also get out of hand since filling the holes up after you are done is difficult to convince people to do. So you have these random sinkholes everywhere that are annoying to deal with. One thing I do like to do is use robotic turrets to watch my back while digging, and cull the numbers/delay the waves that come after you.
I really do think Pack Mule is the biggest noob-trap perk in the game, it's so easy to max out inventory without those perks that the only people who buy it have probably not encountered a pocket mod yet, and then when they realize it they regret their choices as they stare down that 42k duke price tag for the fergittin' elixir.
even if you dont have pocket mods, getting a bike in the first 3 days is relatively easy and basically nulls all of the negative setbacks of encumbrance.
I take 1-2 levels of it every time, makes early game much more convenient and it's not like anyone would ever miss a couple skill points later on. Also most playthrough end after 30 to 60 days anyway, so why skimp out on 2 skill points when you can make 30-60% of your playtime more enjoyable.
No, why would they do that? Instead, the devs can waste a bunch of time reworking entire systems of the game in a futile attempt to make some of these useless skills useful. 🤦🏻♂️🙄😂
I think Pack Mule is amazing. One point and you already got some good extra "space". In the game i'm playing at the moment in A21, i'm at week 35 and i haven't found either the tripple armor mod nor the double clothing pocket mod. Also, since A21, you can get the learning elixir for relatively cheap
@@nicholasdignan1407 When playing a game always remember one thing: If you think taking a certain skill is gonna be helpful, just do it and take it! Especially in single player games and games where you can respec (like in 7d2d), you'll not loose out too much on just going with whatever feels right! So dont feel bad about something like that :)
RIP Clothing Pocket Mods tho. The new armor outfit system is cool but it does not feel like it was a nice change at all to what we had going in before update 1.0. Encumbrance is a BITCH!
I agree about salvage operations. As a heretic, I turn off the horde so I can concentrate on exploring the POIs. Air drops and Salvage Operations are a good way to accumulate wealth by selling at the traders. I regularly turn in a dozen or more useless T6 items and they are stuffed with mods that I accumulated or made. Its not uncommon to make 60 to 80k coin. I did an experiment and stacking the bonuses from pumpkin pie etc on 54k will yield around 82k coin AND a similar amount of experience.
Problem is that you have to find or buy pocket mods, or schematics. Pack mule requires no money or crafting materials. There are actually plenty of skill points for everything that you might say is more useful. Plus, pack mule is in strength, and you're going to want to level that tree anyway. It's a nitpick. Sure it's a hanful of points to use elsewhere, but fully pocket modding your gear is a massive time sink.
AskPrebuilt : if you were to re-do the weapons in the game, what would you have the player use going from zero to end? In terms of realism vs game-enjoyment/immersion. I always felt the pipe-guns feel a little bit "too crude", and some of the top-tier weapons feel a bit out of place.
I think that's the point of pipe weapons: to be crude. Though I'd rather see them based on real primitive weapons. Such as, the Luddie. A machine-gun that anyone could make. Maybe pneumatic guns? Like air rifles or something.
If you could balance each of these 5 perks, how would you go about it? For Packed Mule, there's not really much saving it unless there's a change to the inventory system to something like Unturned/Tarkov(slot based volume system) or Empyrion(numerical volume and mass system). And Packed Mule should probably be more about reducing the speed debuff than adding slots; ie the mod and the perk should play separate roles if they want to balance it. Well Insulated probably also only really makes sense with a rework to the importance of temperature in the survival elements, although I remember when they first implemented it temperature was such a fucking pain to deal with. For Infiltrator, mostly I'd say a 1 block high crouch should be in there somewhere, that'd make it kind of like a niche QOL perk like Parkour. Maybe Treasure Hunter should further influence the loot in chests, or reduced chance of zombie spawns each time it reduces. For Animal Tracker, on top of detecting zombie animals, they could simulate animal stalking by, for instance, if there are no animals in the area, you could instead follow a "trail" which is really like a miniquest waypoint that will lead you to an animal. With that said this really doesn't have value with the abundance and stupidity of the animals in this game. Maybe it could just be a tracker perk and it also extends to zombies and, eventually, bandits, and maybe removing the wallhack radar in quests and instead making it exclusive to this perk.
I think combining some of these perks would be the best solution. Put Infiltrator and Lockpicking together under the name of "Infiltrator" Put Animal Tracker together with Huntsman as a blanket hunting perk And finally, Pack Mule could be a part of lucky looter maybe. Or just removed entirely, it's nearly inconsequential. As for well insulated, I feel like now we could probably re-add temperature damage, now that the system as a whole is a bit more reasonable to deal with. It does feel really odd being in freezing temperatures in the snow while only suffering minor effects overall. "Never take temperature damage again" would be aces for someone who's in the desert and snow a lot.
@@fusrosandvich3738 Cool ideas, I also had merging of Animal Tracker and Huntsman in mind, maybe on top of a decreased aggro from animals or they give up a chase more easily on top of that. I still think Packed Mule is redeemable by completely overhauling it, because I think if you plan on Fergettin' Elixiring in the midgame, unlocking 3 extra slots with one point for your early game isn't absolutely bad. So with this in mind and maybe an additional incentive to the perk of some kind for the endgame would be cool. Hell, if they make it so stack sizes are variable they could make each level increase the stack sizes, which could absolutely overhaul it to an A tier or even S tier perk depending on what items you're working with(explosives and 7.62 come to mind for things that really benefit from a perk that buffs stack size) To overhaul temperature mechanics, I think a movement speed debuff on level 1 (cold) should be enough to discourage entry in the early game, though not as harsh as radiation damage for the, appropriately higher rated, wasteland. Level 2 freezing should definitely have some health DOT or health penalties. In the desert I think a movement speed penalty for the Level 2 overheat debuff is fair, Level 1 can be something simple like a nerf to stamina regen along with the usual increase in dehydration rate.
This is spot on. IMHO though, Pack Mule is worth eventually putting one perk point into so you can free up the foot slot for High Performance Running Shoes, as I love my mobility. Honestly though, having 2 over-encumbrance at full load is not that big of a deal, so investing that 1 perk point comes after pretty much everything else I need.
It wasnt until like last week that I saw those shoes gor the very first time EVER I literally dodnt even know they existed. I saw neon green shoes and having about 1000 hrs in the game now, was actually BEWILDERED, confuddled, shocked(actually) to find something in a game that, like I said, have just SO many hours in, I thought id seen it all, shocked to see something I have never seen before lmao. Also with the not slowed by armor in combat book, there was no difference to me. Even without adrenaline active I dont think I noticed a difference. But this was in a21 so they might be broken now idk.
I do like to put points into pack mule early on, while its pretty easy to level up and looting is important and not having the negative stat is super useful. Ive never had any luck with finding larger pocket mods until day 20 to 30. Which is when ill respec and use the points more elsewhere as leveling starts to take longer. Thats just my take on it tho. I really like doing strength builds so maybe im just a bit biased.
Im an older player in the sense of i played a ton of console then swapped to pc but your guides really help me understand the major learning curve considering console is 5 versions behind this reqlly makes learning the new game easier
I love how Animal Tracker was reworked in Darkness Falls. There it also shows you where zombies are around you. It doesn't work on sleepers I think, but it still much more useful than vanilla one
I and lovingly refered to as a loot goblin so I usually put my first 3 points into levels in packmule. I don't really do much more than level 2 or three because as he said, pocket mods. I just take everything so rather than having to crawl everywhere or put down boxes I may or may not come back to later, pack mule is the better option for me.
My ideas for buffing a few of these perks. Well Insulated - I think that every 3 points of heat tolerance above the current comfort threshold should lower stamina consumption by 1%. Every 3 points of cold tolerance above the comfort threshold should lower water and food needs by 1%. The last point should also give 10 more in both tolerances. The three points would result in 10% less stamina consumption, food/water usage, and that would compound with the resistance to environmental conditions. It's not broken, but it's no longer worthless. Also, being very cold weather should drain 1 health every 10 seconds and being very hot should lower stamina regen by 20%. Buried treasure needs to be reworked. Animal Tracker - Zombie animals would be really useful, but it should also let you know danger zones for zombies. Eg, a translucent red dot for groups of 5 or more zombies in a small area. It would have use cases at least and not overlap with harvester. Pack Mule - There's many ways to make this better. Have it add actual slots to your inventory is one, but that's obviously broken as Sex rex currently is. I'd rather there be a bonus for having free slots without items. Eg, +0.5% movespeed and melee damage for every free slot in your inventory. This could be broken but also fun if balanced differently. Infiltrator - This should allow you to make the mines, make them much better, and let you craft them for far fewer resources. It could make some interesting strategies playwise and base designs.
About Treasure Hunter: I tried different maps in different biomes. The wasteland maps ALWAYS were on top of a mountain with a 60 degree slope in the middle of nowhere. I did get a useless T6 item to stuff with excess mods but not worth the trouble. About how to shorten your dig: Lay out three charges of dynamite for a T1/2/3 quest and toss a lit 4th bundle in the middle. Usually the box is lying about exposed. For treasure maps, use a +50% candy for the same result (unless you are in the wasteland mountains). I make destroyed stone and dirt and back fill any tears in the landscape, which usually takes as much time as digging, just not as frustrating. Bonus tip: You can revisit quest loot boxes. I dig a crypt around mine and revisit every respawn period. I found this really helpful getting food in the early game and helpful for recipe canned goods for later stages. I pick up millitary plates and fiber, and steel plates from the nonfood loot boxes at L60+. I really enjoy experimenting with architecture that the zombies ignore and I can't drive into a hole.
Were pocket mods really that common in the older days of the game? I've put almost 200 hours in the last like 6 months and I've never gotten the crafting magazine for them and i never really find that many of them.
Heres my honest suggestion for pack mule that would probably make it useful for a lot of people. on top of opening up encumbrance slots.. tiers 1-3 give you 20% 40% and 60% reduction to the encumbrance movement speed penalty if you're encumbered. tiers 4 and 5 give you +50% and +100% maximum stack size for ammo, medical items, food, and basic materials.
I'm still very new player to 7dtd, but for new players I would say Packmule is okay to take. In the end, when you get those pocket mods, you can reset your perks with elixir at which point you should have an idea what's good and what's not. But yeah, I agree that these perks seem weak even for me that know nothing about the game's "meta".
Let me start with this: you're absolutely 100% correct.. for vanilla. I'm finding that's a much different case if/when you add mods. I'm playing Sorcery and the gear has tons of space for mods but it adds a lot of new stackable mods. I've actually spent 2 points so far into pack mule. Ijs 😂
as an unlucky packrat, day 34 and not a single armor pocket mod schematic, the fact thats its RNG based sucks but i do have a forgettin elixer when i FINALLY fo get some pocket mods
I play Undead Legacy. I actually find tracking useful, but for a weird reason. We build pretty large farms, and we need lots of rotten flesh. Tracking doesn't of course, help you find undead animals, but in UL it helps you find enough more animals to rank up your animal harvesting skill, which, when you do kill undead animals, helps you get more rotten flesh. Both Heat Endurance and Pack Mule could be fixed pretty easily. They could just make temperature more important and add a few more slots so that having all the pocket mods doesn't give you all the slots. The water filter for the helmet is useful, but just throw it in your drone late game. You can just throw it on when you need to drink something.
Favoriting this vid so next time I get the "Gotta max out the Pack Mule..." argument, I can just drop the link. Love this and totally agree - I don't think I've ever spent skill points on any of these more than once. Thank you!
These are some solid pointers, I'm glad those skills were put in that perspective. Makes me realize how useless the two skills I use are, I've used Pack Mule regrettably, and The Temperature Insulation Perks. Feels good to know I don't really need those and can invest elsewhere.
Role-playing as a reason to max the hunting skill. Useless perk, but fun for some. Thanks for explaining it that way. I'll quit scoffing at it, because I like gardening and waste points even though I know it's useless.
Yeah, I use the animal tracker, mostly for roleplay... Everything else I agree wholeheartedly. I am one step from totally nuking the leveling and skill system and modding my own if I can figure enough 'fluff' to make a hundred levels worthwhile... Great vid! Thanks for your hard work on it.
My first 4 Skill Points as an Archer(my preferred Play Style). Archery (of course) Animal Tracker The Huntsman Parkour While I'm traveling to the first City I'm Hunting Chickens and looking for Nests, I ignore Rabbits as it's the Feathers I need the most. After getting a Home established I still use Animal Tracking to spot Chickens in the City as they're pretty small in comparison to the miscellaneous debris in Cities.
I don't know if that really counts... It's a pretty good skill if you're with friends, but it's obviously useless in a singleplayer game. The ones he mentioned here aren't "obviously" bad the way charismatic nature is in singleplayer.
I agree with just about all of this. Like temp needs to be fixed, what is considered Cold and freezing. Or hot and sweltering is a matter of perspective. I live in Montana, we get it all. In the Winter, After being in -40F for a few weeks 45 above feels like summertime. Some people don't realize that is a 85 degree swing. Today we are approaching 100F, it does feel hot to us....but it wouldn't faze people in Arizona. I think when cold or hot you move slower, and accuracy is affected and gets worse as the temp gets worse. So when aiming or just trying to grab stuff with the mouse the cursor should get real shaky or the crosshairs are shaking and get worse as opposed to having NO crosshair sway at all, which is unrealistic.
1 point into tracking is very helpful at all levels of playing. Infiltrator is extremely useful when you're not using the armor set that does the same effect. Pack mule is helpful if you don't have either the mod or you're using armor sets built for combat.
Viewers should keep in mind playing modded servers can change things. The first example I can think of is pack mule is not always useless if you use a mod that gives more inventory slots since more slots means more locked slots that the pocket mods will be unable to handle. For the vanillia game though I 100% agree with you on these being the worst perks.
so, if I could tweak official perks, I kinda match with you in this, so I would do these changes: - mix Lucky Looter and Treasure Hunter, so is a lot more valuable and considerable to pick, also change the values of Lucky Looter to add a multiplyier to gamestage bonus instead of a couple of points, for example 1 would be regular gamestage bonus vs gamestage zombies: 1.1 in tier 1 (10% GL in general), 1.25 in tier 2 (25% better GL), 1.5 in tier 3 (so a 50% better Gamestage Loot in general, if your gamestage is 100, you'll get an usual loot for gamestage 150, you tell me if that can be great or not, specially if you go to the wasteland where the gamestage doubles (GL too in consequence) and you get a gamestage loot of 300, if you can deal with the zombies - the infiltrator seems a lot more useful in PvP servers, where some players could place mines hidden in the grass around their bases, wich can be troll as hell. Urban Combat v.5 can prevent them from exploding, but pick it up and use it on your favor is something that has use in horde nights (I mean, free defenses), at least. Is a pvp perk, so I think it can remain as it is, like the Leader one, if still exists - Well Insulated and Pack Mule are useless, I mean, at the long run you have those issues solved, probably Pack Mule could enable extra slots that cannot be unlocked with pockets, wich could sound unfair, but imagine running around with 63 inventory slots instead of 45 (45 being with no Pack Mule but lots of pockets mod to increase carry capacity), and well insulated could be merged with Iron Gut, I mean, less water and food consuption AND less loss of these by weather harshness seems compatible
When you do a custom map and you spawn into Wastelands because you made the majority of the map Wastelands, ONE point into animal tracking is very useful early on as I need to eat the snakes to survive and they are NOT easy to see.
Rank 1 treasure hunter is actually pretty useful - you dont need to invest any points into perception for it, startong quests for buried supplies become significantly faster and since they have quite decent looy for game start, let you have more of said loot, AND its a skill that stays useful later on when you're hunting for treasures, which usually have some very good loot, which you get even more of thanks to the skill. Well insulated used to be a decent perk for early game back in the day, but nowadays it's indeed basically useless... Just like pack mule - used to be sort of helpful back in the day, especially in sparsely populated (by buildings) worlds, which nowadays also isn't a thing, and with the release and new armor system that made carrying capacity increase with armor and pocket mods more abundant... Unlike animal tracker and infiltrator which where never useful to begin with.
just dig before starting the mission, packmule can work now for early game as u can just buy forgettin elixir now for 6k dukes only so its more flexible now i think u need to address that in ur video :D
The only time I've ever taken pack mule was in Undead Legacy, which has a weight based inventory system and packmule gave better weight management than the average pocket mod. A triple pocket mod that gives 10 carry capacity or one perk that gives 20. Both. Both are great.
I mean, this is pretty accurate. And thankfully I don't have to choose, but if I DID have to choose between head lamp mod and 1 skill point in pack mule. I'd 100% always put a point into pack mule, without the head lamp mod the game becomes at least 50% worse.
Even in 1.0, I am a habitual pack-mule user just because I am actively trying to force all of my friends to use pocket mods. I have to make sure I push every one I find onto them or they will just go through the game with half an inventory for no reason. Once we finally have a surplus I can pop a forgetting elixir and spec out of it
This video was actually extremely helpful, I'm still gonna take one perk into the hunter, just cause I like to see rabbit, snakes, and chickens on my little compass bar, but other than that, I am no longer putting points into the others
As everybody knows it depends on how you decide to play. Most people have seen Glock9, JaWoodle, Night maroon, Guns Nerd and Steel series and you can pick depending on the type of challenge you want to take.
I used one rank in pack mule early in the game because I found NO pocket mods until about day 25. I went straight for 2 Savage stores and didn't find a damn thing. I was bummed. I want those points back but it helped me travel a bit faster until I could pocket up. It's only 1 point but I know it would be better used now that I'm much later in the game.
Animal tracker just needs a buff. Turn it on at all times, maybe enhance the radius when crouching. Add zombie critters. Hell, at high levels maybe you should even be able sniff out zombie zombies at a small radius. Sniff the air like Wolverine. "Don't go that way bub...wind's bringing the smell of undeath around that corner." They call it PERCEPTION after all. The tree needs some love. It's full of things that are cool in theory but not in practice as the game is currently implemented.
Animal tracker was probably great in a18 lol. Animals seem extremely over abundant now. ... and I take 2/3 insulated just because the cold notice is annoying and I live in the snow for the angry walking food containers, lol.
That's why I made it so when you're overheating stage 1 you -20 max stamina and regen stamina 25% slower. And stage 2(or whatever the red sun is) -50 and 50% slower regen. As well as -25 max HP. And the same for freezing, but instead they are harsher against your HP stage 1 is -10 stam -25 hp, 25% regen on stam. Hypothermia(red snow flake) is -50 hp -35 stam - 50% regen. I made weather actually dangerous.
to maximize your burried supplies, use exp boost and dig, do not collect treasure,. kill,. dig,. kill,. dig,. abuse the spawn and you can level really fast. Animal perk is useless during day, but really usefull at night back in A-20 because there were wolves everywhere,.. but A-21 has alot less wolves. Mines perk is used in wasteland only games. small perception error, level 7 in a stat cost 9 points, not 7. Well insulated used in frostland only games, or desert biomes. Pack mule is used only in early game. many of these perks are used early and retrained later around level 50 to 80. THE ABSOLUTE USELESS perk is stealth perks. Zombies in new POI spawn only once entered a room and in rage mode. A-21 made stealth near useless unless you wander around at night. For mods the most useful OP mod is the helmet light, especially when it rains and you are indoors, screen goes black.
AskPrebuilt : In game mechanic terms what does the loot slider actually do, ie: if you change the loot down from 100% to 75% or 50% etc? from my experience all it appears to do is delete all loot :) You get to the end of a POI and there is feck all in the boxes.
@@stevdor6146 |thanks for explaining this, makes so much sense. another question though, does this mean the loot slider ONLY affects quantity or is there also an affect on Quality?
Well, it looks like with the armor rework, skills that increase heat and frost resistance may become more relevant. In addition, they allow the player to build fires less often and be more frugal with food and water.
man I didn't realize zombies showed up after every shrinking of the circle! so you might actually get MORE zombies to fight total during a buried supplies if the skill is maxed? That definitely does make buried supplies less appealing. must have been a while since I played last cuz I recall zombies only appearing once you opened the chest.
can you do a video that takes all these useless perks and what you would alter or change in these perks to make them good? (not godly just descent so that you may use them or put points into them)
the only perk I use out of these is insulated, but for cosmetic purposes, so I can wear any type of gear I want in any weather and not die to cold damage lol I actually like the snow biome a lot too so there is also that I 100% agree it's one of the worst perks along with the rest of the perks that were named in the video
I never put points into infiltrator, pack mule, insulation and treasure hunter either. I do put point in animal tracker but later on i don’t even use it as i can see the animals like you said.
I would argue that tracking is right behind pack mule. Insulation is pretty useless but it almost does something useful. Tracking doesn’t actually give you anything useful. If tracking could give you an already killed chicken, this perk would still be bottom 5, but not bottom 2. You have to find the chicken and kill it with or without this perk. As you’re riding around, when you see one of the millions of chickens or rabbits running around, jump off your bike and shoot it. It couldn’t possibly be any easier, so don’t fall for the trap that says it makes it easier.
Playing on similar difficulties to You Prebuilt, well over a thousand hours too. Temperature Mods are far more handy than You make them out to be, particularly in PvP Servers because of the explosive resistance. Additionally Heavy Armor is a must in those servers and Custom Fittings are a must for heavy armor and are second only to armor plating mods. Infiltrator delaying floor boards can be handy in multiplayer too since it allows the point man to trigger it at a delay and for other party members to walk over them safely. But like You said this is all subjective and people will find some things more useful in some situations than others will. Other than that I mostly agree with the conclusion on these perks but... By the end game we have over 200 perk points to splash around so it's not toooo bad to spend a few extra on some of these perks, as by the time they become niche they take up such a small portion of Your total perk point pool it doesn't really matter, investing in a broad array of stats is usually better for people like me who don't fight blood moons in a base but out in the streets instead. This video refers more to early game issues and troubles from what I can tell, not the day 300+ play thrus. But then again I've been playing this game on the hardest settings since A16 and still haven't gotten the meet Your maker achievement so maybe I'm just built different. take my words with a grain of salt I guess? ... Really should stand in a blade trap and get that achievement already so I can just 100% the game.
I think Pack Mule could be a lot more useful if instead of unlocking more inventory, it increased the maximum amount of items in each item stack, with the last slot allowing you stack typically un-stackable items to a small degree, say 5 per stack perhaps.
I have to disagree with only ONE thing with packmule, TWO points into it actually = 4 more armor points, due to armor mods which does not sound like much but with a heavy armor play through and some tricks i did with it, I got the max armor really well with that and it did help a bit with damage mitigation. Unless you get really lucky on Armor stat rolls its hard to get that near max armor rating without having nearly every armor with a armor bonus mod on of plus 2 each piece. Basic idea is that the first two points into packmule = two extra armor mod slots late game and that could really give you some versitility. Anything more then Two points into that perks though is a complete waste, especially late game.
there is the possible event where you play for so long that you have enough skill point to unlock all perks in all trees, in which case theres no reason not to use those skills, however virtually nobody plays for that long
@@stevdor6146 I started a game with cheats on so I could start the game with a maxed out skill trees, it's day 15 and I have a gyrocopter, two robotic turrets, level 6 iron tools, a drone, full crafting capabilities, and loads of food and medical supplies, I'm doing level 3 clears with ease
treasure hunter is very good early game as it only takes like 5 perception to max it out, and whennit takes 2 or 3 hits to destroy blocks it definitely makes it faster. but yeah it falls off when you can just 1 hit soil blocks and the rewards dont matter that much
Treasure Hunter could be good if it made maps show up in loot more often (why doesn't it?!) Animal Tracker would be great if it was refactored to... Tracker. Final tier highlighting zombies nearby that haven't detected you yet. Infiltrator could be good if it let you get through spikes and barbed wire with minimal effect, and be able to use fences and railings as ladders.
I would switch well insulated and pack mule, bc in early game pack mule could save you with some overweight issues, but well insulated is just never useful in any situation
The infiltrator perk is not useful in the wastelands. They may be common ther ebut the perk has to be taken in another situation: *MILITARY BASES* . There're military bases *SURROUNDED* by dozens of mines.
i feel like perception is a more rogue build where you lay traps and run from zombies rather than stay and fight...perception should have a skill called adrenaline dump. the first time you get hit by a zombie parry it or it deals no damage and you run faster. And a skill book that if you have the running clothes suit you run faster as well. it seems like a tree thats made for guerilla warfare
The Infiltrator perk saves my ass in PVP servers. You don't know how many times I've picked up free mines to set up traps in other players bases or popular POIs.
Yeah these are my most useless perks as well. Others that I ignore include lockpicking (lockpicks are common and a steel pickaxe makes them obsolete,) Huntsman (animal resources are just so common already,) and - this one is a bit controversial - Healing Factor. HF doesn't give health when you need it (when you're actually in danger) and it depletes hunger faster. I'd rather just top off with food between fights.
As of Alpha 21 with Fergit'n Elixir being so much cheaper than in the past, I honestly feel like Pack Mule isn't a terrible pickup in the early game where you don't quite have access to all the pocket mods you'd normally need - helps in the short-term, and isn't expensive to fix in the slightest. Still the worst perk in the long run, but not so much in the short term now for me.
I used to take pack mule all the time (cause I’m a loot goblin), but then I discovered that pocket mods exist, and aren’t even that rare. The only time when Pack mule is important is in a modded playthrough where your larger backpack mod has it as a requirement to max out the pack size. Which Y’know, if you need a mod to justify the existence of a perk, not great lol
Buried treasure with an auger max level treasure hunter, and a friend Ohohohohooh it's so fun to coop those with them. You can spawn so many zombies on them, my friend has almost died so many times now.
Okay I roasted the perk we can now lay the meme to rest.
It's the internet when you say stop the memes the memes only intensify. Lol
I would have guessed but you spoiled it in the thumbnail. Though I knew it was coming anyway.
When I don't know what do with the points, I buy this perks👍
So a series based solely on these perks isn't coming anytime soon?
Have you played darkness falls you catch fire 20 to 100 times minimum on horde night. You either have to have a pool near by, alot of water in inventory or need a mod to drink murky water. So pack mule is more valuable in darkness falls. Having low inventory places because of lack number of pocket Mods are the worst but ya in vanilla I could see the pack mule being the worth perk.
Pack mule would be cool if it added actual slots to your inventory window.
Ya, if I could get an extra row or two of inventory, then pack mule would be a must have.
I legit thought that's how it worked that i could stack it with pocket mods for even more inventory..
Sadly i just wasted perk points.
@@The_Crimson_Fukrthat’s why I use a backpack extender mod because it actually makes that perk useful plus you don’t have to deal with the laughably small vanilla inventory
I'll sometimes put 1 point in pack mule if I don't have crafting triple armor pocket mods unlocked
@@AngerMaker413 The 60 slot or the 78 slot mod?
Wanna know how to fix pack mule?
Have it increase the stack limit.
Like imagine from 5 first aid bandages in a stack, to 10.
So carrying 40 would take 4 slots instead of 8 slots.
What do you think?
That should actually be in Alpha 21
That would then turn it from garbage to mandatory!
That would 180 this perk big time!
That would legit make it a useful perk. Allowing you to, for instance, maybe stack some otherwise unstackable items (small stacks), like engines and the likes. And of course, as you said, increasing stack sizes of existing items.
i like what they did in undead legacy. they threw the item slot idea out the window and just made it a weight system for inventory. ya start with 100 lbs. each rank of pack mule adds another 20 lbs to the cap. it stacks with mods that increase inventory size too. becomes instantly useful on the early game and is still useful at end game since it lets you chill out in the field longer before having to RTB to offload stuff to then go back out again.
I like spending 1 skill point into tracking as rabbits and chickens can be hard to see in grass. Although every other level falls into the "just look around" category
Agreed. Rank 1 is a nice convenience, the others are totally pointless
There is absolutely no reason to do that. They don’t hide, they run all over the place. Plus they are OVER abundant.
I do the same.
Especially nice when I'm out just hunting for feathers.
same
I found it helpful early game, till I got a compound xbow with a 4x scope and annihilated everything. Good to find snakes in the wasteland and certian POIs. Pesky critters but tasty!
Many versions ago getting too cold would cause your HP to drain until you warmed up. Back then you could also freeze to death on a sunny day in the forest by wearing things like cowboy hats, tank tops and short shorts, but you'd be fine if you were naked.
Back in the a13/a14 days.
Yeah. Always got a laugh outta me.
They should combine animal tracker and the hunter perk that lets you harvest more meat.
I still put one point into pack mule early, because that’s when you need it MOST, and I often don’t find pocket mods for a while. 🤷🏻♂️
For me... the flashlight mod is a MUST! especially when going on night missions or just being in a house and suddenly the weather gets all rainy and foggy and for some reason, everything becomes pitch dark... so yeah. Not gonna waste my eye treasure find goggles for a night vision goggles.
Totally agree. I feel really under-equipped until the moment I finally find or craft a headlamp mod. 👍🏻
nightvision google are better, get use to see thing in green but once you achieve that NVgoogle are much better
@@scubasteve2189 mining helmets from traders
Tbf. I've been getting better at seeing in this setting. Especially be relying on Agility for Sneak as much as my Cloth Armor that I stick by and will die on that hill. I'm a perception build mainly, but I do a lot of zip zooming and sneaking with agility. Can easily pop a bunch of heads with a magnum and a rifle. When you're sneaking around and they cannot hear you for the life of them, you always get the drop. And since cloth armor has no movement penalties nor noise penalties, you can focus all your endeavors into speed and other mods that are more relevant.
And because cloth is so easy to come by, repairing them is easy. And given that the light armor perks make them more effective and more durable, you really rarely ever need to repair them in general.
Buy a LVL 1 military helmet. Super cheap, comes with headlamp.
Most of these have had the game pass them by. Things like the weather has changed so it's not harsh like it used to be in some previous Alphas. You used to really need those slots in clothes and armor to put mods so you wouldn't burn up or freeze to death. You always had to drink red tea in the desert to stay cool and when you had the mod in your armor you didn't need to drink red tea all the time.
You have to go to the desert to get shale and that'd take a while where you'd be drinking tons of red tea to be mining - and had to take all your armor off to stay cool. If you had the mods on instead of pocket mods you could keep your armor on.
i hope the weather update coming in like a year will make weather actually important again, but i doubt it now with the way armor works now
I love that you mention the opportunity cost for these perks. In a vacuum many of these are 'ok' but points spent on them are points you can't spend elsewhere.
@@huff3782 wait is there a level cap?
@@josephg.1.130 300, which I think lets you get every perk (because you get 4 more from the tutorial quest). And after level 60, every level up is the same amount of EXP. (I think, 7dtd wiki said that but it's possible it changed) Really it's all about how you build your character.
Well, this video hasn't aged too badly. This was written for Alpha 20, and we're in Alpha 21 today. The perks mentioned are about as useful now as they were then. There are two major changes that make some of the comments invalid. First is water. In Alpha 20 water was easy to obtain. Alpha 21 made the helmet water filter actually a good item. Also you can't use yucca plants to make drinks without having pure water. Yucca works like tea in previous itterations, you add it to water instead of squeezing the yucca to make a drink.
The second change in 21 that impacts the comments is loot changed. Tons of crafting magazines were added to the loot tables. It makes it much harder to get what use to be fairly common loot. Perk Magazines are slightly harder to find. Pocket mods are slightly more rare. The trader offers less armor than he use to. The general quality of quest rewards has gone down, partially to accommodate adding a 6th tier to quests and loot. You can still get everything talked about here, just it will take a bit longer.
Over 4k hours in the game and I still take 1-2 point in pack mule upon landing. At low levels you are the nost vulnerable and most likely to be packed to the brim constantly. I loathe all the time it takes to walk everywhere and I watch my teammates go at the speed of smell constantly.
By the time you're tricked out in bikes and pocket mods you can easily afford to respec out of a number of early game talents that become useless through books and non repetitive needs, and I'd suggest players take skill points with that in mind if they are looking to be that efficient.
You can pry my pack mule from my cold dead hands.
The Treasure perks were hella good in the early versions where treasure hunting was just based on... a sound effect telling you you were semi closer. So reducing the amount of area you had to search mattered a lot unless you just had a psychic sense for always knowing where it was buried. You could, without the perks, spend an absurd amount of time trying to find treasure, it wasn't foolproof like I guess it is now.
If A21 ever happens, that helmet filter mod would be great to have. Set up a small well using your water bucket, and drink yellow water from it whenever you stop by your base! Set one up near each trader, and drink swamp donkey runoff every time you go to turn in quests! All the sewage, all the time!
This is exactly what has happened lol. And the flashlight mod is useful now because of the new lighting changes
Pack Mule could be very easily fixed by adding more mods.
The Darkness Falls mod made the tracking perk good by allowing you to also detect zombies.
It also made Pack mule better to.
I've always felt that buried treasure missions would be a bit better if they went up to higher tiers, and thus gave higher rewards. What I couldn't think of was how to properly scale the difficulty of such encounters. They already throw a decent number of zombies at you all at once, without the ability to kite them through a POI like other missions, so more/harder zombies probably isn't the answer. On multiplayer servers it can also get out of hand since filling the holes up after you are done is difficult to convince people to do. So you have these random sinkholes everywhere that are annoying to deal with. One thing I do like to do is use robotic turrets to watch my back while digging, and cull the numbers/delay the waves that come after you.
I really do think Pack Mule is the biggest noob-trap perk in the game, it's so easy to max out inventory without those perks that the only people who buy it have probably not encountered a pocket mod yet, and then when they realize it they regret their choices as they stare down that 42k duke price tag for the fergittin' elixir.
even if you dont have pocket mods, getting a bike in the first 3 days is relatively easy and basically nulls all of the negative setbacks of encumbrance.
I take 1-2 levels of it every time, makes early game much more convenient and it's not like anyone would ever miss a couple skill points later on.
Also most playthrough end after 30 to 60 days anyway, so why skimp out on 2 skill points when you can make 30-60% of your playtime more enjoyable.
So, when you drink the elixer, you get all your points back?
Nice! Good to know.
I never go over two points, but playing with friends means I can make "less effective" perk purchases without feeling weak.
@@Endrance450 Right. It's basically weighing one choice over another. Much like a lot of stuff in this game.
With this and other recent vids you've put out, you've convienced me 100% that 7days badly needs a skilltree revamp.
No, why would they do that? Instead, the devs can waste a bunch of time reworking entire systems of the game in a futile attempt to make some of these useless skills useful. 🤦🏻♂️🙄😂
they did thats what we have now XD of course the old system i could cheese shit alot harder but it was fun
Well you're in luck, in a21, they are.
I think Pack Mule is amazing. One point and you already got some good extra "space".
In the game i'm playing at the moment in A21, i'm at week 35 and i haven't found either the tripple armor mod nor the double clothing pocket mod.
Also, since A21, you can get the learning elixir for relatively cheap
@@steveee_0 I'm on my first play through and I felt bad for taking pack mule, this makes me feel a little better
@@nicholasdignan1407 When playing a game always remember one thing: If you think taking a certain skill is gonna be helpful, just do it and take it!
Especially in single player games and games where you can respec (like in 7d2d), you'll not loose out too much on just going with whatever feels right!
So dont feel bad about something like that :)
RIP Clothing Pocket Mods tho. The new armor outfit system is cool but it does not feel like it was a nice change at all to what we had going in before update 1.0. Encumbrance is a BITCH!
I agree about salvage operations. As a heretic, I turn off the horde so I can concentrate on exploring the POIs. Air drops and Salvage Operations are a good way to accumulate wealth by selling at the traders. I regularly turn in a dozen or more useless T6 items and they are stuffed with mods that I accumulated or made. Its not uncommon to make 60 to 80k coin. I did an experiment and stacking the bonuses from pumpkin pie etc on 54k will yield around 82k coin AND a similar amount of experience.
Problem is that you have to find or buy pocket mods, or schematics. Pack mule requires no money or crafting materials. There are actually plenty of skill points for everything that you might say is more useful. Plus, pack mule is in strength, and you're going to want to level that tree anyway.
It's a nitpick. Sure it's a hanful of points to use elsewhere, but fully pocket modding your gear is a massive time sink.
AskPrebuilt : if you were to re-do the weapons in the game, what would you have the player use going from zero to end? In terms of realism vs game-enjoyment/immersion. I always felt the pipe-guns feel a little bit "too crude", and some of the top-tier weapons feel a bit out of place.
I think that's the point of pipe weapons: to be crude. Though I'd rather see them based on real primitive weapons. Such as, the Luddie. A machine-gun that anyone could make. Maybe pneumatic guns? Like air rifles or something.
Thanks for talking about the armor mod argument for Pack Mule. Now I don’t have to think about that barely useful upside.
If you could balance each of these 5 perks, how would you go about it?
For Packed Mule, there's not really much saving it unless there's a change to the inventory system to something like Unturned/Tarkov(slot based volume system) or Empyrion(numerical volume and mass system). And Packed Mule should probably be more about reducing the speed debuff than adding slots; ie the mod and the perk should play separate roles if they want to balance it. Well Insulated probably also only really makes sense with a rework to the importance of temperature in the survival elements, although I remember when they first implemented it temperature was such a fucking pain to deal with.
For Infiltrator, mostly I'd say a 1 block high crouch should be in there somewhere, that'd make it kind of like a niche QOL perk like Parkour. Maybe Treasure Hunter should further influence the loot in chests, or reduced chance of zombie spawns each time it reduces.
For Animal Tracker, on top of detecting zombie animals, they could simulate animal stalking by, for instance, if there are no animals in the area, you could instead follow a "trail" which is really like a miniquest waypoint that will lead you to an animal. With that said this really doesn't have value with the abundance and stupidity of the animals in this game. Maybe it could just be a tracker perk and it also extends to zombies and, eventually, bandits, and maybe removing the wallhack radar in quests and instead making it exclusive to this perk.
I think combining some of these perks would be the best solution.
Put Infiltrator and Lockpicking together under the name of "Infiltrator"
Put Animal Tracker together with Huntsman as a blanket hunting perk
And finally, Pack Mule could be a part of lucky looter maybe. Or just removed entirely, it's nearly inconsequential.
As for well insulated, I feel like now we could probably re-add temperature damage, now that the system as a whole is a bit more reasonable to deal with. It does feel really odd being in freezing temperatures in the snow while only suffering minor effects overall. "Never take temperature damage again" would be aces for someone who's in the desert and snow a lot.
@@fusrosandvich3738 Cool ideas, I also had merging of Animal Tracker and Huntsman in mind, maybe on top of a decreased aggro from animals or they give up a chase more easily on top of that.
I still think Packed Mule is redeemable by completely overhauling it, because I think if you plan on Fergettin' Elixiring in the midgame, unlocking 3 extra slots with one point for your early game isn't absolutely bad. So with this in mind and maybe an additional incentive to the perk of some kind for the endgame would be cool. Hell, if they make it so stack sizes are variable they could make each level increase the stack sizes, which could absolutely overhaul it to an A tier or even S tier perk depending on what items you're working with(explosives and 7.62 come to mind for things that really benefit from a perk that buffs stack size)
To overhaul temperature mechanics, I think a movement speed debuff on level 1 (cold) should be enough to discourage entry in the early game, though not as harsh as radiation damage for the, appropriately higher rated, wasteland. Level 2 freezing should definitely have some health DOT or health penalties. In the desert I think a movement speed penalty for the Level 2 overheat debuff is fair, Level 1 can be something simple like a nerf to stamina regen along with the usual increase in dehydration rate.
This is spot on. IMHO though, Pack Mule is worth eventually putting one perk point into so you can free up the foot slot for High Performance Running Shoes, as I love my mobility. Honestly though, having 2 over-encumbrance at full load is not that big of a deal, so investing that 1 perk point comes after pretty much everything else I need.
It wasnt until like last week that I saw those shoes gor the very first time EVER I literally dodnt even know they existed. I saw neon green shoes and having about 1000 hrs in the game now, was actually BEWILDERED, confuddled, shocked(actually) to find something in a game that, like I said, have just SO many hours in, I thought id seen it all, shocked to see something I have never seen before lmao. Also with the not slowed by armor in combat book, there was no difference to me. Even without adrenaline active I dont think I noticed a difference. But this was in a21 so they might be broken now idk.
I do like to put points into pack mule early on, while its pretty easy to level up and looting is important and not having the negative stat is super useful. Ive never had any luck with finding larger pocket mods until day 20 to 30. Which is when ill respec and use the points more elsewhere as leveling starts to take longer. Thats just my take on it tho. I really like doing strength builds so maybe im just a bit biased.
Im an older player in the sense of i played a ton of console then swapped to pc but your guides really help me understand the major learning curve considering console is 5 versions behind this reqlly makes learning the new game easier
I love how Animal Tracker was reworked in Darkness Falls. There it also shows you where zombies are around you. It doesn't work on sleepers I think, but it still much more useful than vanilla one
I and lovingly refered to as a loot goblin so I usually put my first 3 points into levels in packmule. I don't really do much more than level 2 or three because as he said, pocket mods. I just take everything so rather than having to crawl everywhere or put down boxes I may or may not come back to later, pack mule is the better option for me.
And then latter there's the drone with two cargo mods.
My ideas for buffing a few of these perks.
Well Insulated - I think that every 3 points of heat tolerance above the current comfort threshold should lower stamina consumption by 1%. Every 3 points of cold tolerance above the comfort threshold should lower water and food needs by 1%. The last point should also give 10 more in both tolerances. The three points would result in 10% less stamina consumption, food/water usage, and that would compound with the resistance to environmental conditions. It's not broken, but it's no longer worthless.
Also, being very cold weather should drain 1 health every 10 seconds and being very hot should lower stamina regen by 20%.
Buried treasure needs to be reworked.
Animal Tracker - Zombie animals would be really useful, but it should also let you know danger zones for zombies. Eg, a translucent red dot for groups of 5 or more zombies in a small area. It would have use cases at least and not overlap with harvester.
Pack Mule - There's many ways to make this better. Have it add actual slots to your inventory is one, but that's obviously broken as Sex rex currently is. I'd rather there be a bonus for having free slots without items. Eg, +0.5% movespeed and melee damage for every free slot in your inventory. This could be broken but also fun if balanced differently.
Infiltrator - This should allow you to make the mines, make them much better, and let you craft them for far fewer resources. It could make some interesting strategies playwise and base designs.
About Treasure Hunter: I tried different maps in different biomes. The wasteland maps ALWAYS were on top of a mountain with a 60 degree slope in the middle of nowhere. I did get a useless T6 item to stuff with excess mods but not worth the trouble.
About how to shorten your dig: Lay out three charges of dynamite for a T1/2/3 quest and toss a lit 4th bundle in the middle. Usually the box is lying about exposed. For treasure maps, use a +50% candy for the same result (unless you are in the wasteland mountains). I make destroyed stone and dirt and back fill any tears in the landscape, which usually takes as much time as digging, just not as frustrating.
Bonus tip: You can revisit quest loot boxes. I dig a crypt around mine and revisit every respawn period. I found this really helpful getting food in the early game and helpful for recipe canned goods for later stages. I pick up millitary plates and fiber, and steel plates from the nonfood loot boxes at L60+. I really enjoy experimenting with architecture that the zombies ignore and I can't drive into a hole.
Of everything listed, I will put one point into Animal Tracker early on. It allows me to find more chickens and rabbits than by just looking around.
Find them? I run over a lot of them. Roadkill, yum.
i put 1 point into Infiltrator just because I have bad reaction times.
@@jackclark1994 How does Infiltrator affect your reaction time?
@Gandhi_Physique it doesn't affect my reaction time, it gives me an extra second before the shit breaks and i fall
@@jackclark1994 Yeah uh, sorry man. I'm an idiot. The main comment was about animal tracker.. and I somehow confused infiltrator for that lol
Were pocket mods really that common in the older days of the game? I've put almost 200 hours in the last like 6 months and I've never gotten the crafting magazine for them and i never really find that many of them.
Heres my honest suggestion for pack mule that would probably make it useful for a lot of people.
on top of opening up encumbrance slots..
tiers 1-3 give you 20% 40% and 60% reduction to the encumbrance movement speed penalty if you're encumbered.
tiers 4 and 5 give you +50% and +100% maximum stack size for ammo, medical items, food, and basic materials.
I'm still very new player to 7dtd, but for new players I would say Packmule is okay to take. In the end, when you get those pocket mods, you can reset your perks with elixir at which point you should have an idea what's good and what's not. But yeah, I agree that these perks seem weak even for me that know nothing about the game's "meta".
Let me start with this: you're absolutely 100% correct.. for vanilla. I'm finding that's a much different case if/when you add mods. I'm playing Sorcery and the gear has tons of space for mods but it adds a lot of new stackable mods. I've actually spent 2 points so far into pack mule.
Ijs 😂
as an unlucky packrat, day 34 and not a single armor pocket mod schematic, the fact thats its RNG based sucks but i do have a forgettin elixer when i FINALLY fo get some pocket mods
I do wonder if the dev meant to make so many issues a non issue.
"Streamlining"
naw man, they're simply overlooking alot of things because they're so focused on the 5% of people that are finding ways to get around the game's AI
@@paganathiest6349 right its annoying
I generally put one point in Well Insulated so the game shuts up about me being out in the rain, well worth it for me just to avoid being distracted.
I play Undead Legacy. I actually find tracking useful, but for a weird reason. We build pretty large farms, and we need lots of rotten flesh. Tracking doesn't of course, help you find undead animals, but in UL it helps you find enough more animals to rank up your animal harvesting skill, which, when you do kill undead animals, helps you get more rotten flesh.
Both Heat Endurance and Pack Mule could be fixed pretty easily. They could just make temperature more important and add a few more slots so that having all the pocket mods doesn't give you all the slots. The water filter for the helmet is useful, but just throw it in your drone late game. You can just throw it on when you need to drink something.
It was the "angry, walking food containers" that got me to sub.
Favoriting this vid so next time I get the "Gotta max out the Pack Mule..." argument, I can just drop the link. Love this and totally agree - I don't think I've ever spent skill points on any of these more than once. Thank you!
These are some solid pointers, I'm glad those skills were put in that perspective. Makes me realize how useless the two skills I use are, I've used Pack Mule regrettably, and The Temperature Insulation Perks. Feels good to know I don't really need those and can invest elsewhere.
Role-playing as a reason to max the hunting skill. Useless perk, but fun for some. Thanks for explaining it that way. I'll quit scoffing at it, because I like gardening and waste points even though I know it's useless.
Yeah, I use the animal tracker, mostly for roleplay... Everything else I agree wholeheartedly. I am one step from totally nuking the leveling and skill system and modding my own if I can figure enough 'fluff' to make a hundred levels worthwhile... Great vid! Thanks for your hard work on it.
My first 4 Skill Points as an Archer(my preferred Play Style).
Archery (of course)
Animal Tracker
The Huntsman
Parkour
While I'm traveling to the first City I'm Hunting Chickens and looking for Nests, I ignore Rabbits as it's the Feathers I need the most.
After getting a Home established I still use Animal Tracking to spot Chickens in the City as they're pretty small in comparison to the miscellaneous debris in Cities.
Enjoyed this video, well done! For single player games I'd have to add Charismatic Nature.
I don't know if that really counts... It's a pretty good skill if you're with friends, but it's obviously useless in a singleplayer game. The ones he mentioned here aren't "obviously" bad the way charismatic nature is in singleplayer.
@@Arkalius80 True. It's single player only that Charismatic Nature is useless and Prebuilt didn't go into single vs multi player benefits.
I agree with just about all of this.
Like temp needs to be fixed, what is considered Cold and freezing. Or hot and sweltering is a matter of perspective.
I live in Montana, we get it all.
In the Winter, After being in -40F for a few weeks 45 above feels like summertime. Some people don't realize that is a 85 degree swing.
Today we are approaching 100F, it does feel hot to us....but it wouldn't faze people in Arizona.
I think when cold or hot you move slower, and accuracy is affected and gets worse as the temp gets worse.
So when aiming or just trying to grab stuff with the mouse the cursor should get real shaky or the crosshairs are shaking and get worse as opposed to having NO crosshair sway at all, which is unrealistic.
1 point into tracking is very helpful at all levels of playing. Infiltrator is extremely useful when you're not using the armor set that does the same effect. Pack mule is helpful if you don't have either the mod or you're using armor sets built for combat.
Viewers should keep in mind playing modded servers can change things. The first example I can think of is pack mule is not always useless if you use a mod that gives more inventory slots since more slots means more locked slots that the pocket mods will be unable to handle. For the vanillia game though I 100% agree with you on these being the worst perks.
I like Animal Tracker as I enjoy long walks in the woods where I can look at wild animals through a scope...mounted to my M60 Machine Gun.
so, if I could tweak official perks, I kinda match with you in this, so I would do these changes:
- mix Lucky Looter and Treasure Hunter, so is a lot more valuable and considerable to pick, also change the values of Lucky Looter to add a multiplyier to gamestage bonus instead of a couple of points, for example 1 would be regular gamestage bonus vs gamestage zombies:
1.1 in tier 1 (10% GL in general), 1.25 in tier 2 (25% better GL), 1.5 in tier 3 (so a 50% better Gamestage Loot in general, if your gamestage is 100, you'll get an usual loot for gamestage 150, you tell me if that can be great or not, specially if you go to the wasteland where the gamestage doubles (GL too in consequence) and you get a gamestage loot of 300, if you can deal with the zombies
- the infiltrator seems a lot more useful in PvP servers, where some players could place mines hidden in the grass around their bases, wich can be troll as hell. Urban Combat v.5 can prevent them from exploding, but pick it up and use it on your favor is something that has use in horde nights (I mean, free defenses), at least. Is a pvp perk, so I think it can remain as it is, like the Leader one, if still exists
- Well Insulated and Pack Mule are useless, I mean, at the long run you have those issues solved, probably Pack Mule could enable extra slots that cannot be unlocked with pockets, wich could sound unfair, but imagine running around with 63 inventory slots instead of 45 (45 being with no Pack Mule but lots of pockets mod to increase carry capacity), and well insulated could be merged with Iron Gut, I mean, less water and food consuption AND less loss of these by weather harshness seems compatible
When you do a custom map and you spawn into Wastelands because you made the majority of the map Wastelands, ONE point into animal tracking is very useful early on as I need to eat the snakes to survive and they are NOT easy to see.
Rank 1 treasure hunter is actually pretty useful - you dont need to invest any points into perception for it, startong quests for buried supplies become significantly faster and since they have quite decent looy for game start, let you have more of said loot, AND its a skill that stays useful later on when you're hunting for treasures, which usually have some very good loot, which you get even more of thanks to the skill.
Well insulated used to be a decent perk for early game back in the day, but nowadays it's indeed basically useless... Just like pack mule - used to be sort of helpful back in the day, especially in sparsely populated (by buildings) worlds, which nowadays also isn't a thing, and with the release and new armor system that made carrying capacity increase with armor and pocket mods more abundant... Unlike animal tracker and infiltrator which where never useful to begin with.
just dig before starting the mission, packmule can work now for early game as u can just buy forgettin elixir now for 6k dukes only so its more flexible now i think u need to address that in ur video :D
The only time I've ever taken pack mule was in Undead Legacy, which has a weight based inventory system and packmule gave better weight management than the average pocket mod. A triple pocket mod that gives 10 carry capacity or one perk that gives 20. Both. Both are great.
I mean, this is pretty accurate. And thankfully I don't have to choose, but if I DID have to choose between head lamp mod and 1 skill point in pack mule. I'd 100% always put a point into pack mule, without the head lamp mod the game becomes at least 50% worse.
Even in 1.0, I am a habitual pack-mule user just because I am actively trying to force all of my friends to use pocket mods. I have to make sure I push every one I find onto them or they will just go through the game with half an inventory for no reason. Once we finally have a surplus I can pop a forgetting elixir and spec out of it
This video was actually extremely helpful, I'm still gonna take one perk into the hunter, just cause I like to see rabbit, snakes, and chickens on my little compass bar, but other than that, I am no longer putting points into the others
As everybody knows it depends on how you decide to play. Most people have seen Glock9, JaWoodle, Night maroon, Guns Nerd and Steel series and you can pick depending on the type of challenge you want to take.
I used one rank in pack mule early in the game because I found NO pocket mods until about day 25. I went straight for 2 Savage stores and didn't find a damn thing. I was bummed. I want those points back but it helped me travel a bit faster until I could pocket up. It's only 1 point but I know it would be better used now that I'm much later in the game.
Animal tracker just needs a buff. Turn it on at all times, maybe enhance the radius when crouching. Add zombie critters. Hell, at high levels maybe you should even be able sniff out zombie zombies at a small radius. Sniff the air like Wolverine. "Don't go that way bub...wind's bringing the smell of undeath around that corner." They call it PERCEPTION after all. The tree needs some love. It's full of things that are cool in theory but not in practice as the game is currently implemented.
Animal tracker was probably great in a18 lol. Animals seem extremely over abundant now.
... and I take 2/3 insulated just because the cold notice is annoying and I live in the snow for the angry walking food containers, lol.
You going to redo this for A21? Not a lot has changed in the perk trees but I'm curious if your views have changed at all.
best game evah!
AH finally, a build I haven't done!
That’s all my playthroughs 🙃 my role playing ass XD
dont forget to make it a farming playthrough as well
That's why I made it so when you're overheating stage 1 you -20 max stamina and regen stamina 25% slower. And stage 2(or whatever the red sun is) -50 and 50% slower regen. As well as -25 max HP. And the same for freezing, but instead they are harsher against your HP stage 1 is -10 stam -25 hp, 25% regen on stam. Hypothermia(red snow flake) is -50 hp -35 stam - 50% regen.
I made weather actually dangerous.
to maximize your burried supplies, use exp boost and dig, do not collect treasure,. kill,. dig,. kill,. dig,. abuse the spawn and you can level really fast. Animal perk is useless during day, but really usefull at night back in A-20 because there were wolves everywhere,.. but A-21 has alot less wolves. Mines perk is used in wasteland only games. small perception error, level 7 in a stat cost 9 points, not 7. Well insulated used in frostland only games, or desert biomes. Pack mule is used only in early game. many of these perks are used early and retrained later around level 50 to 80. THE ABSOLUTE USELESS perk is stealth perks. Zombies in new POI spawn only once entered a room and in rage mode. A-21 made stealth near useless unless you wander around at night. For mods the most useful OP mod is the helmet light, especially when it rains and you are indoors, screen goes black.
AskPrebuilt : In game mechanic terms what does the loot slider actually do, ie: if you change the loot down from 100% to 75% or 50% etc? from my experience all it appears to do is delete all loot :) You get to the end of a POI and there is feck all in the boxes.
@@stevdor6146 |thanks for explaining this, makes so much sense. another question though, does this mean the loot slider ONLY affects quantity or is there also an affect on Quality?
Well, it looks like with the armor rework, skills that increase heat and frost resistance may become more relevant.
In addition, they allow the player to build fires less often and be more frugal with food and water.
man I didn't realize zombies showed up after every shrinking of the circle! so you might actually get MORE zombies to fight total during a buried supplies if the skill is maxed? That definitely does make buried supplies less appealing. must have been a while since I played last cuz I recall zombies only appearing once you opened the chest.
Oh my, someone call a doctor for perk # 1. There's no recovering from that beating lol. Great video Prebuilt!
can you do a video that takes all these useless perks and what you would alter or change in these perks to make them good? (not godly just descent so that you may use them or put points into them)
Great suggestion. Let's do constructive criticism!
the only perk I use out of these is insulated, but for cosmetic purposes, so I can wear any type of gear I want in any weather and not die to cold damage lol I actually like the snow biome a lot too so there is also that
I 100% agree it's one of the worst perks along with the rest of the perks that were named in the video
for those new, pack mule is really good on early game, but in late game, when u get the pockets, it's useless. xD
I never put points into infiltrator, pack mule, insulation and treasure hunter either. I do put point in animal tracker but later on i don’t even use it as i can see the animals like you said.
I would argue that tracking is right behind pack mule. Insulation is pretty useless but it almost does something useful. Tracking doesn’t actually give you anything useful. If tracking could give you an already killed chicken, this perk would still be bottom 5, but not bottom 2. You have to find the chicken and kill it with or without this perk. As you’re riding around, when you see one of the millions of chickens or rabbits running around, jump off your bike and shoot it. It couldn’t possibly be any easier, so don’t fall for the trap that says it makes it easier.
Playing on similar difficulties to You Prebuilt, well over a thousand hours too. Temperature Mods are far more handy than You make them out to be, particularly in PvP Servers because of the explosive resistance. Additionally Heavy Armor is a must in those servers and Custom Fittings are a must for heavy armor and are second only to armor plating mods.
Infiltrator delaying floor boards can be handy in multiplayer too since it allows the point man to trigger it at a delay and for other party members to walk over them safely. But like You said this is all subjective and people will find some things more useful in some situations than others will.
Other than that I mostly agree with the conclusion on these perks but...
By the end game we have over 200 perk points to splash around so it's not toooo bad to spend a few extra on some of these perks, as by the time they become niche they take up such a small portion of Your total perk point pool it doesn't really matter, investing in a broad array of stats is usually better for people like me who don't fight blood moons in a base but out in the streets instead. This video refers more to early game issues and troubles from what I can tell, not the day 300+ play thrus. But then again I've been playing this game on the hardest settings since A16 and still haven't gotten the meet Your maker achievement so maybe I'm just built different. take my words with a grain of salt I guess? ... Really should stand in a blade trap and get that achievement already so I can just 100% the game.
I think Pack Mule could be a lot more useful if instead of unlocking more inventory, it increased the maximum amount of items in each item stack, with the last slot allowing you stack typically un-stackable items to a small degree, say 5 per stack perhaps.
Maybe even make it so it unlocks a larger type of storage crate or chest
I have to disagree with only ONE thing with packmule, TWO points into it actually = 4 more armor points, due to armor mods which does not sound like much but with a heavy armor play through and some tricks i did with it, I got the max armor really well with that and it did help a bit with damage mitigation. Unless you get really lucky on Armor stat rolls its hard to get that near max armor rating without having nearly every armor with a armor bonus mod on of plus 2 each piece.
Basic idea is that the first two points into packmule = two extra armor mod slots late game and that could really give you some versitility.
Anything more then Two points into that perks though is a complete waste, especially late game.
I agree 100% We must play alike. That shot on the bird was so so sexy! Keep up the awesome work
@Izprebuilt make a new version of this one
there is the possible event where you play for so long that you have enough skill point to unlock all perks in all trees, in which case theres no reason not to use those skills, however virtually nobody plays for that long
@@stevdor6146 I started a game with cheats on so I could start the game with a maxed out skill trees, it's day 15 and I have a gyrocopter, two robotic turrets, level 6 iron tools, a drone, full crafting capabilities, and loads of food and medical supplies, I'm doing level 3 clears with ease
treasure hunter is very good early game as it only takes like 5 perception to max it out, and whennit takes 2 or 3 hits to destroy blocks it definitely makes it faster. but yeah it falls off when you can just 1 hit soil blocks and the rewards dont matter that much
Treasure Hunter could be good if it made maps show up in loot more often (why doesn't it?!)
Animal Tracker would be great if it was refactored to... Tracker. Final tier highlighting zombies nearby that haven't detected you yet.
Infiltrator could be good if it let you get through spikes and barbed wire with minimal effect, and be able to use fences and railings as ladders.
I would switch well insulated and pack mule, bc in early game pack mule could save you with some overweight issues, but well insulated is just never useful in any situation
The infiltrator perk is not useful in the wastelands. They may be common ther ebut the perk has to be taken in another situation: *MILITARY BASES* .
There're military bases *SURROUNDED* by dozens of mines.
Animals are "angry, walking, food containers". I never thought of it like that lol.
"See in the dark as you quietly drink piss while wearing a cowboy hat". Genius.
i feel like perception is a more rogue build where you lay traps and run from zombies rather than stay and fight...perception should have a skill called adrenaline dump. the first time you get hit by a zombie parry it or it deals no damage and you run faster. And a skill book that if you have the running clothes suit you run faster as well. it seems like a tree thats made for guerilla warfare
The Infiltrator perk saves my ass in PVP servers. You don't know how many times I've picked up free mines to set up traps in other players bases or popular POIs.
at least 1 point in animal tracking is very helpful, especially early on when finding food can be a bit of a challenge.
Im so late..but i do want to add if you play your cards right buried supplies can = TONS of XP when joined with Treasure Hunter
Yeah these are my most useless perks as well. Others that I ignore include lockpicking (lockpicks are common and a steel pickaxe makes them obsolete,) Huntsman (animal resources are just so common already,) and - this one is a bit controversial - Healing Factor. HF doesn't give health when you need it (when you're actually in danger) and it depletes hunger faster. I'd rather just top off with food between fights.
As of Alpha 21 with Fergit'n Elixir being so much cheaper than in the past, I honestly feel like Pack Mule isn't a terrible pickup in the early game where you don't quite have access to all the pocket mods you'd normally need - helps in the short-term, and isn't expensive to fix in the slightest. Still the worst perk in the long run, but not so much in the short term now for me.
I used to take pack mule all the time (cause I’m a loot goblin), but then I discovered that pocket mods exist, and aren’t even that rare. The only time when Pack mule is important is in a modded playthrough where your larger backpack mod has it as a requirement to max out the pack size. Which Y’know, if you need a mod to justify the existence of a perk, not great lol
Most of the weight based inventory mods also make pack mule useful. Its effects stack with the pocket mods boosting your carry weight.
@@Knirin I also vaguely remember darkness falls needing both pocket mods, the perk and it’s own backpack upgrades to max out the inventory.
Buried treasure with an auger max level treasure hunter, and a friend
Ohohohohooh it's so fun to coop those with them.
You can spawn so many zombies on them, my friend has almost died so many times now.
1 point in infiltrator is great if basing in the wasteland. Urban is fantastic but is an rng drop and you can't rely on rng.
I think a lot of these are bad maxed out but good for 1 point wonders especially if you plan your build and know what your hard and soft capping