What is Split timeline theory?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- for a while now to fill the unexplained void left by sonic forces (because of course its sonic forces) fans came up with the theory called split timeline, what is it? and does it work? well lets find out.
My Instagram and Twitter:
www.instagram....
/ dshaynie
Sonic The Hedgehog is copyright Sega
Music used:
Title screen - Sonic Generations
Sunset heights - Sonic Forces
Egg Reverie - Sonic Mania
Sonic Forces - Ghost Town - Turret 3471 Remix
Final boss - Sonic mania
Collision Chaos ＂G＂ mix - Sonic the Hedgehog CD
Hard boiled heavies Boss - Sonic Mania
Rooftop run Act 1 - Sonic generations
Flying Battery Zone Act 1 - Sonic Mania
Windy and Ripply (Emerald Coast) - Sonic Adventure
2010’s writers: We don’t give a shit
The writers this decade: We are so sorry
"I should not have said that. I should not have said that."
Sonic stories somewhat matter now... and that's bit of a problem, it is so unfortunate of how many stuffs they need to change for things to begin making sense. i highly appreciate for them just now starting to respect the fans that care about said stories, but if the mess has already been made, it seems nearly impossible to fit a majority of these games into a cohesive journey from one to the next without bumping into a few plot holes along the way... then comes a few more plot holes... and _more,_ and *_more..._* i think you get it
@@AltKaxREALI feel that the story mattered for the 2000’s too, I feel like it was just during the 2010’s where the story was put way in the back
right
@@AltKaxREAL the 2010s stories still fit despite being horribly executed, at best, I think they retconned the whole Generations Alt Timeline of Generations, Mania, and Forces
In all fairness, EGGMAN could be the variable here. Modern Eggman abducted Classic specifically to help him with his plan (which makes no sense because Classic Eggman should be LESS smart???)
But they had to choose what locations to rip from time, so Classic Eggman could have learned a lot more than Classic Sonic and Tails did
Also another plot hole is Tails not recognizing Green Hill because unless the Time Eater abducted Sonic 1 Sonic (which is IMPOSSIBLE because he knows Tails and can spindash)
Tails would have had to been near by when Time Eater steals Green Hill so by default Modern Tails SHOULD HAVE RECOGNIZED GREEN HILL
Now that is a plothole we never so much as find out how either eggman escaped white void
Ehhh wibbily wobbly timey whimey
@@biggiecheese2544 hard to recognize a white void
@@biggiecheese2544to be fair generations did early on play with the idea that eggman deleting the moments from time made it hard for the characters to recall them like how tails also couldn't quite put his finger on were the sense of familiarity was coming from in chemical plant .
Its so weird how the concept of modern and classic sonic change from being from the past to becoming this complicated dimension stuff. I'm not sure whether to hate it or like it.
I hate it lol
I really hate so I just head cannon it away.
Hate it, it should've stayed as little more than a design change
I hate it, I really thought the idea of classic just being younger sonic was fitting and simple enough to pass
Time is a dimension. Tails is a scientist and sees a split version of himself ENTERING another timeline that he knows is not his expereince, so he calls it DIMENSION, accurately. He doesn't have this unga-bunga MCU fan FALSE conception of mistaking the English word, what Schroedinger tried to say with his cat metaphor. Or even Plato's cave.
It's not elaborate at all, you're just so painstakingly room temp IQ smoothbrain that any wrinkle appears "complicated" in comparison. I could literally write the letters l and Ω on chart to explain it, and the SHAPE of Ω would make your eyes gloss over.
It was just a mistranslation. Forces is a mess in many ways and has more of those. The line "Tails just lost it" should be "Tails went missing". In japanese, they say "isekai" which can mean from another world or dimension. In this case, it meant "from another time".
yeah but tails can just be hallucinating
watch that shadow dude
Changing the past with timetravel causes a new timeline to be created, so he is from the past AND from another dimension.
No way.... This whole time. The past 7 years of debating. Was all over a mistranslation. All the problems could have been avoided! ahhhh!
This is exactly how the human covenant war started in the halo universe.
Sonic being tortured however I'm pretty sure was a leftover from a previous draft of the script. I think the Japanese version doesn't have it, but the English one does. They both used to have this detail, I'm pretty sure.
I like to think there's 1.5 timelines between Modern and Classic Sonic. It's like Doctor Who, namely Out of Time, where the 10th Doctor doesn't remember the 4th Doctor's experiences until they happened during the story.
So, Modern Sonic did experience Mania, but he also didn't because he and Classic Sonic were out of sync like the 10th and 4th Doctor.
Or it could be like dragon Ball with trunks
@@alexthebluehermit Maybe, but I prefer mine.
@@slateoffate9812 understandable
Y’all keeping conversation civil. Always nice to see.
I’d like to offer a counterpoint: Mania and Sonic 4 take place in the same points in their respective timelines. They happen around the same event: Little Planet coming back around. The difference being that the Phantom Ruby existed in the Classic timeline, causing the change in plans.
Imo I feel like they shouldve gone with the split timeline theory. Making it so Classic Sonic is literally the same as Modern Sonic even after Gens and Forces is weird when theres so many plotholes. Now I dont want them to be like classic is a diffrent dimesion or something stupid, just that classic is indeed Sonic from the past but ever since Gens the timelime split so now the classic we see nowadays is in his own unique timeline, letting him be free without worrying about canon.
It's not a theory. Unless people REALLY think Sonic went through Generations and Forces twice. That Classic met all of his friends before Sonic adventure.
@@SonicXisCanonhow could he go through Gens before CD if he already met Classic Tails by the time Gens happened? We know CD is before Sonic 2 thanks to Origins.
@@TakeshiInazuma Yeah, he did, but Ian Flynn said that he does not remember any adventures he had in the future.
@@hyper5925 o you're saying he met everybody and seen everything twice, and forgot!?
They just got to keep it simple. The current Classic Sonic became an alternate timeline version due to getting pulled into the future.
@@TakeshiInazuma Well, that is the Canon explanation. Superstars, Mania, Mania Plus and Mania Adventures were referenced in Tails Tube, so, it happend in the Canon Timeline.
The Timeline split has been confirmed to be non Canon by Ilzuka and Flynn, so, Modern and Classic Sonic are the same Sonic. They are not from different universes or timelines. It's just one.
Sonic met his friends and his future self, but he forgot everything. Every single second he passed in the future doesn't exist ins his mind anymore.
A couple of things:
One, in fiction, terms like alternate timeline and alternate dimension are used interchangeably. Your definition of timelines and dimensions aren't mutually exclusive and there's no reason why an alternate timeline couldn't be considered a separate dimension. Also, it is not Classic Sonic's knowledge of the future that caused the split in the timeline, it's Eggman messing with time. After all, modern Sonic and Tails do not remember the events of Generations from Classic Sonic and Tails' perspective, even though they would if they are the exact same.
Secondly, that isn't the Q&A in which Iizuka confirmed the split timeline, it was a different one. He was specifically asked about the "another dimension" thing and while the Q&A gets a little muddled, you can hear Iizuka say "timelines" in English and his translator says something to the effect of "modern Sonic's history is the same, but Classic Sonic is his own thing." I believe Ian Flynn also said recently on his podcast that an alternate timeline was indeed the original intention going forward. Things like TailsTube and the Sonic Superstars interview are simply retcons and not proof that this concept never existed to begin with.
Lastly, I want to point out that Classic Sonic is already a teenager. Modern redesigns are just that: redesigns. Sonic never went through a physical change from Classic to modern designs.
[processing]
Didnt they retcon classic sonic's age to 11?
@@antunderexist692 Nope
Two timelines was debunked in a bumblekast episode by Ian flynn, tails on tails tube references they are still friends with trip, mighty and Ray, and other events from mania and superstars, so those games are part of modern Sonic's past.
@@jamesstreet2397 That's a retcon. It's clear the original intention was for it to be a split timeline.
honestly, I kinda wish they went for the timeline split idea. I feel like it gives the story some extra complexity, and I always found it fascinating to see how games/media manage to keep the timelines relevant in ways that not only involve them as a pieces to the major canon, but as individual, minor canonical stories as well.
Best way I personally can see how this story even fits is there’s 3 timelines.
Timeline A ends with 06
Timeline B continues pass 06 and ends with Generations
Timeline C is mania sonic which was classic sonic from generation and now we’re just watching a modern sonic from a different dimension who met the classic sonic we know.
I think it would’ve made sense if Classic Sonic Classic Tails after Generations would cause another timeline where they have different adventures cause they have knowledge of characters they’re gonna meet, like Shadow.
If Classic Sonic from Generations knew Shadow, and grew up to be Modern Sonic, he’d try to convince Shadow to be a good guy.
He’d already know Cream in Advance 2, know Blaze and the Sol Emeralds in Ruse 1, ect ect.
Events might have played out differently if he did free up as Modern Sonic.
So personally I welcome separate or a new timeline branch while the Modern cast is unaffected.
That fact that sega Figured out a way to create two of the same character and then sell us both games without us being confused is pure genius
I agree but the timeline theory just makes more sense. If they went with that, then they could make as many classic games and contradictions as they want without fans getting skeptical when there's like 20 classic games at some point. Not everything has to remain one universe that's why we have things like spider-verse. And don't even get me started on sonic prime.
Two timelines was debunked in a bumblekast episode by Ian flynn, tails on tails tube references they are still friends with trip, mighty and Ray, and other events from mania and superstars, so those games are part of modern Sonic's past.
FINALLY! That line Tails said always bothered me. I used to think that for modern Sonic his timeline just started in Sonic Adventure and for Classic Sonic, Sonic 1 (bear in mind back in 2018 I was not as educated about Sonic despite being a fan). I am glad someone addressed this issue, but to be honest despite the timeline split I feel that Tails saying "from another world" in the Japanese version makes more sense than "from another Dimension" because another world feels like the timeline split created another world where events play differently, but not another dimension. It''s a bit complicated.
The main reason Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic can't be the same person at two different points in time because they're both the same age. Sonic has always been 15. Even with Generations, Sonic did not age.
Didnt they retcon his age to 11?
Sega had officially dumped their ages overboard, why are fans still using that idea?
Classic sonic was 15 in sonic 3 and knuckles but reconed his design
So if Sonic comes from the past (Sonic Mania) to the future (Sonic Forces) with the help of the Phantom Ruby, that means that the Ruby has the power to time travel. But this is not used in Forces to stop the war, or in the IDW Comics by Dr. Starline. It is only used for teleportation, and a few other minor uses.
So, maybe to not mess up Sonic Forces' storyline, they said that "Classic Sonic came from another dimension" because they meant for the Ruby to only have dimension manipulating powers, not time powers.
Tbf I think it was the phantom ruby reacting to the chaos emeralds that caused it to send classic sonic to forces
@@Glitchyy07 Now that you mention it, I think you are right
No offense but it was no reason for this video as tails said the other dimensions can be timelines
I don't know why so many fans had a hard time grasping this but Classic and Modern were supposed to take place in different continuities (which explains why they both have different art styles and lack characters that the other has) with the events of Sonic 1, CD, 2 and 3 happening in broad strokes in the Modern continuity.
Timeline theory also makes sense because why would Classic Eggman repeat the exact same stuff he knew failed Sonic Generations? Why would Sonic, Tails, Knuckles and Eggman have no recollection of the Phantom Ruby? Where's Mighty and Ray been all this time?
Yeah, and I don't think this video really even understands this concept in the first place. There's alot more evidence in the source material itself to conclude the Classic Timeline is seperate to the Modern Timeline since in Origins, CD is supposed to take place before Sonic 2 LOL. When in the Modern timeline, it takes place after Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Not to mention, Classic is mute while Modern Sonic can speak (he can speak in Segasonic and etc.), he is literally equal to his Modern self as shown with Time Eater, Chaos and Egg Dragoon, the same Egg Dragoon who was fighting Werehog Sonic, who is equal to Generations and onwards Modern Sonic. It's pretty irrelevant for it to be "oh, well this wasn't supposed to be the intent!!" Well honeybuns, the official material overrides this.
Conclusion: Classic Sonic is from a seperate dimension or world entirely from Modern, however he is a younger variation and comes from a variation of the past. EVERYTHING in the source material alludes to this so don't try to any smart business with me.
Two timelines was debunked in a bumblekast episode by Ian flynn, tails on tails tube references they are still friends with trip, mighty and Ray, and other events from mania and superstars, so those games are part of modern Sonic's past.
@@jamesstreet2397 That's dumb.
@@jamesstreet2397 Ian was asked about the Sonic canon and has already admitted in Bumblekast that he wasn't qualified to give a definitive statement on what is canonical. Ian Flynn had made it quick to clarify their show was not sponsored by SEGA (although doesn't mean we can't use his statement for other purposes outside of "canonicity". Tailstube was never really reliable to begin with, assuming that you use the argument about "Superstars and Mania footage and art was shown", Sonic the Fighters clips were also shown which couldn't possibly happen in the Classic Dimension given in IDW, it's confirmed that there were never 8 Emeralds and Fighters never would have even happened (As confirmed by Sonic himself in the comic). Origins also contradicts what was established with Sonic 4 given how Sonic CD takes between Sonic3&K and Sonic 4. And there really isn't evidence to suggest Tailstube is even canon in the first place, all it has is contradictions saying it isn't.
The fact that the thumbnail is a reference to Doctor who is 🔥
maybe
honestly, my idea of Classic Sonic existing can be explained by the events of Sonic Generations; basically the old design of Classic Sonic is modern sonic in his younger years. but they can justify the Mania Sonic being the result of generations. so the timeline is a puddle. the Mania universe essentially has characters that exist within the modern universe, and possibly could take aspects from pieces of media SEGA no longer considers canon.
So Main Sonic has never met Fang the Hunter, thus the events of Sonic Drift, Fighters and Chaotix never occured. however Mania Sonic became something of a classical NSMB universe, such as taking elements from Origins such as Classic Amy's moveset and possibly Ray/Mighty's characterization from Segasonic the Hedgehog and Chaotix (for Knuckles), though it doesn't mean Origins ties into Superstars. i'm a little curious if the plot of Shadow x Sonic generations would have Black Doom realize that he's an echo of time and has read Shadow's mind (due to being part black arms). also, Classic Robotnik/Eggman would have to had found a way out of time like his modern counterpart.
Also phantom ruby usage probably pulled infinite potential from other realities as a reference, like Metal Sonic's new form in Mania Plus. devs did mention that Bean/Bark/Fang in Mania was stated to be the real deal when shooting your plane down, but the heavy magician just simply assumed their forms during the boss fight. probably shook that reality's timeline by now. heck, classic eggman probably got ideas/knowledge from his modern counterpart.
Sonic the Fighters though? i can't see that happening in a Mania/Superstars universe, since they'd have to explain things like the extra chaos emeralds and also Espio. definitely assuming the Chaotix (outside of Mighty) are considered off limits and covered in shadow to maintain brand consistency. shame they'd probably absolutely would not go with the obtaining knowedge viewpoint for classic eggman; i don't think eggman was aware of Metal Sonic's abilities fully until stuff like Heroes and Colors Ultimate. not the ability to utilize energy (since even Mecha Sonic could use the master emerald in 3), but more like utilizing wisp energy (Colors Ultimate) and scanning bio information during Heroes.
So i could totally see a classic eggman impeding on metal, or at least keep a tighter leash over him to prevent a betrayal arc.
Okay i genuinely liked the bit where you started zooming out to every editing software.
The term "dimension" can still be used interchangeably with "timeline" in this case, given one of the definitions of "dimension" being another realm that's similar but separate and not connected. The problem is you're thinking of time linearly, thinking Mania-verse is just a split timeline moving forwards from wherever in the original timeline Classic was ripped from. However the very action of being placed back to his original time would create this new timeline that spans forwards (obviously) AND backwards. Essentially making two parallel timelines with exactly the same history up to the point of Classic getting snatched up. Seeing as the new timeline of the Mania-verese would have events drastically different from the event of the Classic era of the regular verese we know, said differences (along with the afformentioned copy of the history of the original timeline) would make it different enough AND technically separate to be considered another dimension.
As for Tails referring Classic as being from another dimension as opposed to the past, Tails is smart. He saw Classic go back to his timeline, and there's a good chnace he knows or at least hypothesizes how time travel works in the universe, so would know for a fact (much like the audience) the Classic Sonic and by extension Classic Robotnik would do things differently and end up creating the new branch timeline.
I think tails said classic sonic was from another dimension cause he was so fed up with stress of Sonic’s loss and focus on fixing omega that he couldn’t think properly
Or also it could be from another world because classic sonic from forces didnt know the homing attack while generations classic sonic did
Eggman Nega is from another dimension in the Rush series, yet he’s from the future in the Rivals series.
Seeing as how they have been consistent with their inconsistencies, it almost feels intentional. I believe in the split timeline. It’d be cool if they go into how all of this is happening, maybe involve Little Planet and the Time Stones?
Same with Blaze with Sonic Rush and 06.
@@greenstarlover1 💯 Exactly.
I think there's also contradictions between Sonic Battle and Shadow the Hedgehog, which is why for some time I thought the timeline split after Sonic Heroes.
Sonic Forces’ story is secretly genius confirmed? 🤔
If you think about it if in Sonic Forces Modern and Classic are the same person, Sonic could have stopped Eggman from taking over with the knowledge
TailsTube #4 confirmed Classic is Sonic from the past. Done.
personally i think the sonic fandom solved it with their OTHER explanation - namely, the "santiago" meme.
while classic is obviously not a scandinavian terrorist in either appearance, i think the classic in forces is a fake sonic of some sort - a *phantom* if you will. and you all know which ruby is present during the events of forces
forces sonic is "the same" as mania because the phantom ruby remembers what happened in mania and is essentially just replaying clips of sonic from back then. so he's basically a living sonic mania youtube poop
I think that Classic Sonic can be from another dimension, as the "real" Classic Sonic, the one that we see in the Classic games, is 16, has an attitude, a dark blue fur color, and can talk (even if we don't see him doing it often in the games).
Meanwhile, this Classic Sonic is light blue, has a wide-eyed personality, doesn't talk, and is significantly younger. So he might be a different Classic Sonic from the one in the classic games, Modern Sonic's past self.
I have 2 theories about classic sonic. One is everything is normal until after sonic 3 before sonic mania where classic sonic goes to the future in sonic generations and remembers everything after leaving and instead of practicing the air boost modern sonic was teaching him, he formed in into the dropdash to use in sonic mania. The other is that the classic sonic from sonic generations was transported to sonic generations after sonic one and when coming back he immediately goes into his adventure on little planet in sonic cd and the time stones erased the memory of sonic generations and replaces them with visions of the future, specifically Amy tails and knuckles, which is why he goes to west side island immediately after. But that’s just a theory, a game theory. (Thanks for the iconic line matpat)
7:08 The question was again asked in a way that led the answer to be about the Split Timeline Theory in the following year's SXSW panel, the one where they also had a guy asking about a crossover between The Joker and Sonic The Hedgehog.
I think the line about him being from another dimension makes sense when you learn that originally, instead of the avatar stages they were going to be Sonic Boom stages. That Sonic being referred to as from another dimension would have actually made sense and I'm sure they just wanted to use dimensions as an umbrella term for the three of them. Ofc, Boom ended up being dropped from the plans
Let’s all agree: We don’t talk about Sonic Forces. We don’t acknowledge it. It doens’t exist.
Think it’s easier to say that tails got it mixed up😢
And that's how Mr. Infinite lives messed up the entire franchise chronology
Here's my theory. The "timeline split" Happened during or right after Sonic 3 & Knuckles. It's s hown that the phantom ruby always existed in the ground of Angel Island. (This also helps explain how Knuckles was able to just punch the chaos emeralds out of Super Sonic at the beginning of Sonic 3.) Then the timeline split, due to the Phantom Ruby somehow. Perhaps as a result of the combined power of it and the reactivation (or removal) of the Master Emerald in Sonic & Knuckles. There's Timeline A which is the one we've been following through 3 & Knuckles, Sonic 4, Adventure, Adventure 2, 06, Generations, Colors, and eventually Forces. Then there's Timeline B which instead of Sonic 4, Adventure, etc taking place after Sonic 3, we got Sonic Mania.
Also on your "timelines and dimensions aren't the same thing", maybe you should try and look up multiverse theory. Choices and timelines ARE indeed considered "seperate dimensions". That's one of the basic theories behind quantum mechanics and the many worlds theory. Your arguments on why the main theorized cannon is "wrong" hinges on your not understanding this theory. Not to mention it could be semantics and Tails just flubbed up. It's possible.
I think you missed the part where it was never part of canon or from sonic team to begin with it was just a theory fans ran with and overcomplicating to justify the bad writing of sonic forces.
not to invalidate your explanation because it is well thought out if not very very extensive
@@dshaynietheawesome I can't speak on the quality of Sonic Forces as a whole since I haven't played it myself, but most of your argument about why Classic Sonic being from another dimension being bad writing is built upon thinking "dimension" and "timeline" are mutually exclusive terms which is just wrong. Basic Multiverse theory such as the Many Worlds theory states that many parallel worlds (aka dimensions) are created whenever a timeline diverges (aka alternate timelines). Because of this, "timeline" and "dimension" have long since been used interchangeably in fiction, and the same is true with Sonic Forces. Based on this understanding, Split Timeline Theory is the simplest and most logical implication of Tail's statement. This feels less like the line was "bad writing" and more like you just misunderstood (or rather refused to accept) what they were implying.
Already pulling the references from Modern Doctor Who, huh? XD
A dimension is simply a measurement of space, a plane of existence as you will. An alternate timeline 100% counts as an alternate dimension, it is a unique plane of existence that exists seperately from the main one. It's no different from how Blaze has her own dimension with locales very similar to Sonic's yet they are not the same.
Many of those things you just associated with being from multidimensional stories happen in alternate timelines. Alternate Sonic with alternate versions of all of his locations and locales.
Superstars does not take place in the alternate dimension, it takes place in-between 3K and Adventure 1, they (and more specifically Ian Flynn) have ditched the Classic dimension because clearly it confuses people such as yourself (admittedly the fault of Forces not elaborating on the concept whatsoever).
3:35 "Or sometimes referered to as another universe"
Uh, dimension is a geometric term. Not a single official dictionary acknowledges the rampant misuse of it being a nebulous space-related term. It's not even always referring to alternate universes. It could also be higher planes of existence like DC's "Fifth dimension" where Mxyzptlk and Bat-Mite come from and "pocket dimensions" aren't really universes in a traditional sense.
Remember, in a previous cutscene, Amy (I think) said that Tails had gone crazy after Sonics disappearance
I agree with this theory, also, Sonic Forces isn’t a bad game.
Fantastic video. I love the detail about the issue and clarification around it.
Side Note: For your chart, Silver's future isn't unknown because of the IDW Comics which are canon to the continuity. It's in the Metal Virus Saga
I was being unspecific we know very little about it but we know it’s there and it’s nothing like crisis city
To be fair, I can totally see why people would believe in a split timeline. After all, it would be weird if classic sonic, new characters, like shadow, silver, and blaze exist, but then wouldn’t recognize them years later. And of course it would be strange that Eggman wouldn’t recognize the phantom Ruby enforces if he had already gone through the event of mania.
Also, although I agree that dimensions can often be vastly different than the “main” universe, there’s also been cases infection, where a universe is created because of a split timeline. Just look at DC comics handles the Multiverse. Some universes are split off of decisions people make, while others are simply universes that work differently. Who to say the sonic Multiverse in Sonic’s franchise doesn’t work off of the same logic.
Alternatively, the simplest explanation is that when tails said “you’re that sonic from another dimension” he could’ve just been referring to white space
I just see it as a future trunks situation. The events of Generations caused classic sonic's timeline to branch off on its own path without changing modern sonic's past because the time travel works on multiverse theory
Modern sonic doesn't remember generations ftom his past, so it never happened to him, the events of all the classic games before then are in bith timelines, but after generations there's a new timelime where sonic did experience generations when younger, they make it pretty clear when they still call the classic games events from the past after forces
Two timelines was debunked in a bumblekast episode by Ian flynn, tails on tails tube references they are still friends with trip, mighty and Ray, and other events from mania and superstars, so those games are part of modern Sonic's past.
The most funny thing is, is the thumbnail of the video
It’s both classic sonic and modern classic sonic bi-generating
Sonic mania came out after generations which one is modern classic sonic
2:57 To be fair, the multiverse model is practically the same thing as the branching time stream model.
The only real difference is one is related to space and the other time. Ben 10 Omniverse even specifically uses the branching time stream model
my head canon is that classic tryna learn homing attack lead to the drop dash in mania because they both use the same input to use and in frontiers sonic suddenly knows the drop dash so this would lowkey make sense
That is actually kinda cool
0:08 the GOAT
my theory is that all universes or dimensions come from a timeline split whether or not it is identifiable or not. and even if the difference is a subtle contradiction through dimensions, there could always be a (or Multiple) split(s) of events that caused one of them to be that way
When dealing with any story element from anything that has gone through a translation process, always, _always,_ ask what the original text said in the language. Sometimes translators and localizers get things wrong, and that can completely upend the understanding of intended canon. Check to see the OG meaning behind “other dimension” and determine if nuance or definition was lost or changed.
This PSA brought to the Sonic Fandom, with love, from the Zelda Fan Community, who is totally not in flames right now because of how poorly NoA handled Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom 😅
My theory has always been that Classic and Modern Sonics belong to two different universes, not a split timeline. This has been my theory since Sonic Generations. The reason why Sonic and Tails speak about their counterparts as though they are their past selves is because they had similar pasts, though not exactly the same. This means that prior to Sonic Adventure, they went through events very similar to those depicted in Sonic 1, Sonic CD, Sonic 2, and Sonic 3 & Knuckles, though not exactly the same. (You could say that there is evidence of this because they way Sonic Adventure's flashback shows how Sonic met Tails is different from what is shown in the new FMV in Sonic Origins.) With this in mind, in my head-canon, the old Sonic canon is still in place for Classic Sonic, with their planet being called Mobius, Robotnik being the former Dr. Kintobor, etc.
But if Sega announced that they are the past and future and not two different universes, well, I guess that's that, then. It's stupid, though. How does Sonic's eye color change? Why did everyone grow up except Tails, who is still a child? So many problems.
Sega has a problem with the 2 concepts of timeline and dimensions. Classic Sonic is not the only mix up of it, we have Blaze and Eggman Nega 2.
Curiously both roothed in a bad recepted game(with reasons) 2006 and forces.
I can't believe Sonic bigenerated
The reason I think there's a timeline split is because when Classic Sonic is brought into the future, goes on his adventure with Modern Sonic, and gets sent back, he should have knowledge of what's about to happen in Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, 06, Unleashed, and Colors, but he doesn't appear to.
When you play those games, Sonic shows no knowledge of what's about to happen in those games, because he's experiencing them for the first time.
It would make sense that the timeline splits after Generations. If you met with your future self and went through every pivotal moment of your life that hasn't happened yet, wouldn't it leave an effect on you? Wouldn't it leave an effect on the whole timeline going forward?
(The "another dimension" line is just yet another fuck-up from everyone's favorite Sonic writers)
I always thought of it as the dbz timeline as classic’s timeline were affected by the events of generations and if this never happened class I would go through adventure as history originally intended
0:44 sonic 4? Never heard of it! I hope it’s a good game with great physics.
I mean it’s Sonic.T.H.4 after all, a sequel to an amazing Sonic game, Sonic.T.H.3&K, which had multiple playable characters with each having their own twist, expansive levels, fun Special Stages, amazing art style that is consistent yet improves on the previous three Sonic games (1, C.D, and 2), amazing soundtrack, amazing story, and multiple save slots!
I think Sonic.T.H.4 just needs to look at and understand what makes that game so amazing and add on to it.
Hopefully Sega doesn’t make Dimps turn a 2.D side scroller mobile game into the sequel, that’d be a terrible move.
@@azimuddin1890 I honestly secretly liked sonic 4 but I only hated it to fit in the fanbase but it was said that sonic 4 was actually not meant to be a sequel to sonic 3 It was said it was meant to be a sequel to sonic CD but honestly I kinda want a true sequel to Sonic CD
@@Stickboy321Go
I like 4 Episode 2, but there’s so little to go back to that game, and a lot the game already has that needed to be improved.
- Making the physics better than 3&K
- Give Sonic his Insta-Shield and Super Banana Peel-Out.
- Make Tails playable in single player
- Give him a proper Super form
- Add more playable characters like Knuckles, Mighty, Amy, and Ray.
- Make the Green Shield deflect projectiles
- Being back Elemental Shields.
- Expand the level design
- Add six more zones
- Make new Special Stages
- Remove the cutscenes for each boss after completing the game because they drag out the battles.
- Add a better final boss
- Improve the soundtrack to sound more like how CD’s soundtrack sounded like.
- Collecting Red Rings throughout each stage should give rewards.
- If they’d do that, then add four more Red Rings for each level.
See, there’s a lot that they needed and should’ve added in to make it more re-playable.
I'm not a sonic fan so I don't know much of the canon but timelines and dimensions (universes) are somewhat interchangeable in some works of fiction. Marvel is a great example for this since timeline splits create separate universes like the Netflix MCU films
Say Time Travelling exists in this Universe.
Sonic has bigenerated.
Lets just say that tails didnt realise he said that XD
If it is just one timeline, does that mean Sonic teaches himself how to homing-attack/air dash?
Tbh i didn't really mind the idea of splitting classic and modern ala Megaman. Specially since it meant certain characters from the classic era like Nack, Bean, Bark, Honey, etc could return and have some spotlight they would otherwise not have in "modern" titles. Like yeah it's a convoluted mess, but i still think it has potential if they keep going with that route.
No one was big, and now nothing's small.
My headcanon is that Tails and Eggman accidentally said “dimension” instead of “the past”
What if the Split timeline was the friends we made along the way
I kinda wish so much stuff wouldn't take place between Sonic 3&K and Sonic Adventure. At least, not involving Knuckles. I think if between those two games, if Knuckles only met Sonic like once or twice, Knuckles not 100% trusting Sonic in Adventure would make a lot more sense. But then by the time they get to Heroes, they've gotten to know each other a lot more.
I love classic Sonic, I love your videos, thank you for going through all this work for a subject I genuinely would never care about otherwise considering I never invested into the Sonic games after Sonic 3 & Knuckles
That is my job:
Over explaining pointless topics to entertain people
My headcanon is that Modern Eggman building Time Eater caused an alternate timeline to begin. It starts out the same, all be it a little altered (the placement of some games are moved around). Then the timeline goes normal, except that Classic's will be probably have him stay Classic Sonic. I feel like him staying Classic would better because that way, if they want to make more Classic Sonic games, they don't have to say, "Oh, this game takes place between SA1 and the last" every time.
How is that no one has commented how a "different dimension" can be taken literally, as in, classic sonic is in 2D
from what I understand,Its kind of a''different dimention and timeline at the same time''
It makes sense to me. Let's say you have never met your future self in 2004 and lived your life normally. 20 years later, you bulid a time machine and went back to 2004 and met your past self. The fact that you went back in time to 2004 and met your past self drastically changed the future for your then past, now alternate younger self. You created a new timeline, where past you lives a completely different life due to your interaction. But it actually changed the sec you stepped into 2004, because there shouldn't be 2 you's existing at the same time.
My understanding was that gens classic went on to lost world on account of featuring abilities he picked up in gens, like the homing attack and boost (while super), went on then to have his own generations, where eggman, deciding he knows better, messes with space, not time, thus the drop-dashing, sky-blue "modern-classic" sonic from another dimension.
If I had a nickel for every fandom I am involved in that had a split timeline theory that had massive evidence against it, Id have 2 nickels.
First of all, that meme is so overdone, just because its from Phineas and Ferb doesn't mean it's funny. Second of all, you never said the other one.
@@KilaKaKa ok well, that phrase existed even before Phineas and Ferb. If I would have added, "which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice," that would've been me using the meme.
@@CyberdustStudios Oh crap. I never finished it, I just assumed it said that. My bad, I apologize. What is the second Fandom though?
@@KilaKaKa All is forgiven. And It's G4 My Little Pony. I had lost interest in the fandom since 2019 and have gone back into the fray a couple of months ago. If only because of the infection AU's.
@@CyberdustStudios ah, ok. Thanks for forgiving me.
Man this theory is the only way to make it make sense. Especially since modern sonic never experienced the events of mania. I'm just gonna take this as them not understanding the differences between alternate timelines and alternate dimensions. It doesn't make sense for modern sonic to have experienced mania cus then wouldn't he have past recollection of the events in forces since he was transported there at the end of the game? And if that didn't happen in modern sonics timeline but the core events of mania did then that would still make it an alternate timeline.
There is no reason to think he has never experienced mania infact its possible mania may be referenced at some point if recent media has anything to say about it
Ok, so it DBZ time travel. Got it.
eye color can change as a person ages, the front layer of melanin in sonic's eye could have just went away.
See the only difference between the two timelines in my headcanon is that Generations and Forces never occur to Classic Sonic, and Mania is Classic exclusive, with Superstars being the equivalent for classic modern
I like when your talking about different dimensions you can see sanic and Mario that’s cool. And personally I prefer classic.
There is evidence to support the split timeline theory though
During the events of Sonic Generations, why don't Modern Sonic and Tails go "Hey wait, this is what happened when we were kids! Remember when we got sucked into a white void and met out future selves?" This is the first time they are experiencing the events of that game. They don't know what the Time Eater is, Sonic is shocked when he sees his past self, Tails has to figure out later in the story they're traveling through time and space like it's a big revelation to himself, etc. Also, why doesn't Modern Eggman remember that his plan fails if his younger self has gone through the events of Generations already? It's set up pretty well that when Classic Sonic and Tails return to the past, it creates an alternate timeline
And during the events of Forces, why doesn't Eggman recognize the Phantom Ruby? He used it in Mania, but when he discovers it in Forces it's something new entirely to him. If Modern Tails had simply said "alternate timeline" instead of "alternate dimension" then I don't think any of this confusion would be present, since the split timeline theory still lines up considering how Sonic, Tails and Eggman acted in Generations and Forces
I cant believe that tails made a hole fandom confessed
So the classic sonic and modern sonic in generations will always be the same
Shadow use the time stone and fix it
I casually just ignore the "other dimension" line.
3:16 DOCTOR WHO REFERENCE LET'S F_CKING GOOOOOOO
I think they tried to make classic Sonic a split timeline or dimensions in Forces... But they messed up to the point they simply decided it was better to simply drop every plan and rethink again the course of the franchise.
Yeah like they planned things in sonic forces
@@dshaynietheawesome and that's the reason was easy and fast to drop the ball.
I only rescue the characters creator, the Wispons and the Resistence, that last one only because Ian give it good use in IDW comics, and turns in the Restoration, with Eggman causing havock for at least 5 years it's weird there wasn't a group like that before(and not overlap with G.U.N that I guess gonna return after SxS Generation)
While we would all love for it to be one timeline, wouldn't it mean that Modern Sonic should have had knowledge of the Phantom Ruby/Infinite catastrophe to warn his friends one day so Forces wouldn't go as badly as it did in the first place?
For me is that Classic Sonic is from another dimension from the past
bro forgot classic sonic came from a dimension. the SECOND dimension.
My theory before Sega confirmed it was when classic and modern met when they saw each other it made classic sonic timeline or when he made it into the future it made the classic timeline
i think a more interesting debate is where are the humans? first Iizuka says that the more cartoony levels (i.e Green hill, Chemical Plant etc) happen on a place called south island and the more realistic looking levels (rooftop run, speed highway etc) happen else where. But then he goes onto say that their two different worlds sooooo... idfk
Ive been making sonic timelines for years, and yes, this whole timeline split thing was a massive pain since then it calls into questions what games be in what timeline since some interviews said certian games like knuckles chaotix wasnt canon since the version of the chaotix from heroes onward was a reboot of them essentially... Only for mighty to appear in mania alone with some elements from the 32x game as well so its like... "Is chaotix on 32x exclelusive to the mania timeline?" And the game gear games being kinda on the fence in that regard as well since stuff from those are also in mania.
Needless to say, that (along with the 2 planets thing to explain when humans show up or not, despite how much more plotholes ot creates innthe process) was just more of a jumbled mess than it had any right to be. They trying to set the record straight now but man i could do a whole video series on trying to piece together all of this now even if we just doing one timeline again. And even then 06 would still need to be its own freaking timeline because of the blue emerald bootstrap paradox breaking everything.
I swear this series is a practice in frustration...
I don’t why but I love hearing people talk about the sonic 06 timeline
clearly the answer is this is what doctor who was doing between his 8th and 9th regeneration, he accidentally crash landed in the sonic universe and made his tardis into a paradox machine to maintain modern and classic sonic at the same time and then left because he wanted to distract himself from the time war by doing something amusing and it's why he knows about parallel universes later on (dude trust me) (not clickbait)
What I want to know is who or what exactly allowed this whole thing to happen. I mean, Webber clearly voiced concerns with the word choice, showing that people involved with SEGA knew how crummy it was. And yet it still made it into the final game regardless. Was it Sonic Team themselves? Was it Pontac/Graff?
I understand how the alternate dimension thing seemed sudden and might be confusing at first, but there's a couple things you need to take into consideration. The term "another dimension" isn't just used for the examples that you gave pertaining to the word. Saying that something or someone from another dimension can also be used as a term for an alternate reality, or in other words, an alternate universe. The Sonic Prime characters for example, like Nine, are from another dimension. AKA an alternate reality, AKA an alternate universe.
And with Classic Sonic now having his own timeline and chain of events and adventures that he undergoes, he is now from another dimension as well.
As for how Tails knows this? Well it's obvious. Like Eggman, he has a high IQ. And he was possibly able to easily deduce the fact that since Classic Sonic and Classic Tails, as well as Classic Eggman all met their future selves and witnessed the future, it created an alternate timeline/dimension with its own set of events. And Tails would know this do to the fact that Modern Sonic and Modern Tails obviously don't remember generations happening in their past. Which means it only happened for their classic variants, and not them. Anymore questions?
The problem with the first explanation is that you are using your own (and other sources) term for a timeline and a dimension, you need to remember that if a series says that they are traveling to other timelines but in reality those are dimensions or universes, they are timelines in that series. Also, you used the example of Rick and Morty, where they use dimension and timeline interchangeably. Moreover, little changes in a timeline can create other dimensions and universes in different media, like marvel.
Besides that, I agree with most of this, It can easily be one timeline that just felt a little confusing after using the wrong terms and adding more games to the classic era.
Did no one think that it's just a repeated typo? The writers probably thought classic was from another dimension.
Hmm…
What about the phantom ruby, Forces Sonic acts confused about it and its power
Because forces came out in 2017
Maybe Classic Sonic can rembember Generations only when he goes to the future, while he is in his time everything that has happened in the future can be considered a sort of dream
when modern meets classic in forces he says hi to him for the first time in ages and classic remembers him