2 GREAT AMPS! However, in order for the comparison to be truly fair you must engage the Mesa's graphic EQ. Why you say? The Blackstar doesn't have a graphic EQ how can that be fair? Because the tone stack of the Blackstar functions in precisely the same way as the graphic on the Mesa. Huh? The channel EQ on the Mesa Mark Series amplifiers and other Mesa/Boogie amps that have graphic EQ's, is pre gain. Look at it as if there were a 3 band EQ on all your guitars. It is tone shaping before the signal is smashed by overdrive. Where this helps is on the low end side of things. In essence, in a high gain circuit, attenuating the lows gives an overdriven signal more punch and focus since you are balancing the frequency energy before it enters the gain stage. Low frequencies have more energy than mids and highs. If too much low frequency content is allowed to run free in an overdriven circuit, it swallows up the mids and highs, bumps its head on the ceiling and leaves sounding flabby, or more precisely: like shit. Which is why your ears told you to run that Mark V low eq at between 2 and 3 on the high gain side. To keep things fair you did this to the Blackstar as well which is actually unfair to the Blackstar, because you are taking away the low end on an already overdriven signal, making the tone thinner than its designers intended. The graphic on the Mesa is in the same spot in the circuit as the Blackstar tone stack. Post Gain. And why that ridiculous looking V shape that sounds like poo on every piece of audio gear known to man, except on a Boogie it is glory from the teat of the Metal Gods. Another major design difference between the Mesa and the Blackstar is the use of a diode in the Blackstar's OD circuit. The diode is overdriven rather than a tube. Its basically an OD stompbox inside the amp...and how the Blackstar can achieve high gain while only using 2 preamp tubes. It is not true tube overdrive. The difference is really felt when you start backing off the volume knob of your guitar on the Blackstar. Instead of staying creamy and warm, the tone tends to stay brittle as it cleans up. I've owned an HT-40 and a Mark IV version 1. And for the money the Blackstar is a huge heavy rock BANG. It represents a guitarists ability to affordably get tones that range from high gain Marshall-ish to high gain Boogie-ish. Compromises have been made to achieve this that are felt, not just at the ears, but at the fingers as well. The Mark V represents the latest achievements of tube guitar amplifiers at the art form's pinnacle. A true masterpiece. In closing, because of these stark differences in design, its a comparison that wont ever be quote-unquote "fair". (yes, grammar authorities, i did just do that.) That being said the Blackstar performs admirably here. But in my opinion, the Mesa tone has more life and depth of character, even with one hand tied behind its Boogie back.
Robert Heazlit this is an amazing explanation of both of these amplifiers, and I couldn't agree with you more. You should be a column writer for a guitar magazine haha. I have pinned your comment in hopes that if anyone wants more detail when they come to this video and they can read your comment and find what they're looking for.
Thanks man! If i have a knack for writing, it must be at the expense of my memory...looks like i commented on your video 10 months ago and completely forgot. I don't post too often, but i did here because i have worked with both designs pretty extensively. Nice job on the video too, I might add. Brief explanation at the top, both amps properly mic'd with a shot of the controls, in and out in 6 minutes. I wish all comparison videos are more like yours!
Robert Heazlit Thanks! I have tried a couple videos where I went into thorough explanations of the gear that I was reviewing, but I found it works better and the videos go over better if you just give the people what they want to see and provide links in the description where they can read about all the tech specs.
Great comment!!! I agree with you, the Mesa has something more, BUUUUuuttt, based on what you said, let's imagine recording an AWESOME rock song and performing it live: when using a Blackstar, would the lack of the Mesa's "something more" really compromise the overall quality of this music? Would you miss something really substantial that would make it cease to be an awesome sounding song? Considering how the ear works in most musical situations, I can say that the answer to this question answers why Balckstar is an excellent choice! There is only one possibility for the answer to be "yes, it whould cease to be awesome": the guitarist has a strong fetish for some consecrated brands and has some struggle to deal with evidences that he has spent a lot of money on behalf of the fetish rather than the actual sound, so he doesn`t want to feel like a fool. Anyway, there is NOTHING wrong with someone having lots of money and enjoying having and experimenting with expensive and consecrated equipment, which is another story... And, yes, man!, you should be a column writer for a guitar magazine!! Cheers from Brazil.
The Graphic EQ comes at the very end of the signal chain so you can shape the final sound with the only consideration being how much of a certain frequency your speakers, cabinets - and ultimately your ears - can handle. (Extreme settings of the two lowest Bands - 80Hz and 240Hz will use up power quickly and overall headroom will be affected, especially in the 50W and 10W settings of the Channel Power switch). straight from the Mesa manual...at the end not before the eq controls. That's why the bass flubs out if you bring it up on the front panel but not so on the 5 band. Edit* just realized you meant the front panel is before gain..doh!
The Boogie sounds better,but both sound good. You aren't being fair by matching knobs and not using features. Knob response curves aren't the same. If you are going to compare against a Boogie, make the Boogie sound the best it can and same for the Blackstar. Go for the same kind of sound, but don't expect the knobs to be the same.
I'm madly in love with my Mark V but that Blackstar sounded really great! It's got that lovely, gritty British crunch to it. Sounds very convincingly like a Marshall. I can get reasonably close to that with the Mark V, but not like that. That ISF on the Blackstar is so cool.
very close, close enough that no one sounds better than the other one but rather a preference to your liking. Mesa sounds darker. great vid. specially considering that the mesa is three times as much as the blackstar.
Yes agreed the blackstar sounds like it is already processed as opposed to the mesa. All those frequencies it has would be cut to make it sound like the blackstar might as well cut out the middle man and save the $$$$
I have a blackstar HT-60 combo. I buy it because there is no stock of Marshall JVM in my country and any mesa head/combo is way over my budget. I have watched many mesa mark V reviews on youtube and always think that mesa is way better than my blackstar. Your comparison is the first one that show me that blackstar isn't really that bad. I even like blackstar tone than mesa. Anyway, thank you for this comparison. It's really an eye (or ear) opener for me ;)
I just ordered a HT20 combo on a black friday deal for 349. looking forward to using it with students. Sounded good to me, but the Mesa had a bit more character and life to it. Which it should for the price. Thanks for the demo.
I got the same deal for the Blackstar HT-20 and 3 months later I was as told the control board had to be replaced and parts were no longer available :: I'm working with Blackstar not see if they can source a board for me. Needless to say - very hesitant.
Mesa just has that solid low end. That has always been one of Mesa/Boogie's strong suits. My only critique of the Blackstar Studio 20H is that the low end is a little thin. I thought the Blackstar had a better tone in this video, but I feel like the Mesa Mark V could have been dialed in better than was shown. I am a new owner of this Blackstar head, love it, I got it on a blowout price for Black Friday.
They are really close, as you said. The Blackstar sounded pretty good. A bit less girth than the Boogie - but in the mix - it's so hard to tell the difference. The Boogie has a lot more girth, but with girth I think comes a bit less clarity. Depends what you're after. For me - I'd go with the Mesa (if I had to choose).
The Tone King Thanks for the comment! I would agree. Like i said in the video, I think the amps could be dialed in to be a little closer. I may need to revisit this one and instead of making the settings the same, i should dial in the best tone out of each.
The Boogie has so much more everything,gorgeous tone but the Blackstar is sweet too if a lil bit fizzier. The definitive advantage of the Boogie is the blue light. Blue lights are awesome but always serious $$$ for any amp with a blue light.
The Mesa made me smile right away haha I has that magical thing haha but great vids and the blackstar sounded great especially acknowledging the price gap between the two !
Dude, great amp demo. I have a Mesa Dual Rectifier and an old 50 caliber. Love them both. i also have both Egnater Tweakers, 15 w and 40 w. I love them both. In any case, all of the amps mentioned by both you and me have great potential for any player. They are all good. Some amps fit playing styles a little better than others but overall, they are all good. Thanks for the demo.
For the money, Blackstar amps are really fantastic. I actually favour the HT5 over the HT60. I put the heads through a Matrix NL212 which is quite trebly, so it balances out the darkness of the Blackstars to give a REALLY nice sound.
Blackstar sounds pretty good but Mesa wins anyway pretty clearly. Mesa has much more definition and overall grind and also littlebit more low end. Blackstar sounds pretty basic but it's not bad at all!
Not sure what this word 'basic' means in terms of tone. But if you're searching for EVH, or other hot rodded Marshall 80's rock tones, the Blackstar will get the upper mid crunch a bit better. For rounder modern tones like Dream Theater, the Mark will work better.
Henry Widell I've had 2 Boogies for years. An F50 and Express 5.50. The clean channels are VERY low volume and noisy as hell. Just loud mush. Just bought a Blackstar Artist 30. It's about 4 times the volume, almost COMPLETELY quiet and the sound is so much better.
i have both of these amps, and i will gladly take the mesa boogie without question any day. i can not stand the limited sound/tone of the blackstar. the boogie is worth every penny.
Of course the Mesa sounds better. Its a better amp all around BUT it is also almost 3x the price.... The blackstar is a great amp for the money and comes pretty close as he said.
The Loser and the Boozer Podcast Tere are older Mesa amps that you can find used which sound far better than the Blackstar and cost roughly the same money. I have the Studio 20 combo and its a good amp but it will never be the real thing, the tubes are completely different. Mesa amps like the Studio .22 and .50 caliber are fantastic amps for the money, I've seen some sell on reverb for around the £600 mark which is a bargain. I do agree that the mark 5 and a lot of other Mesa amps are overpriced but there are diminishing returns like with almost anything you buy.
Nice demo Man... Although is worth mentioning one thing that I realized after more than 15 years playing... tone its greatly in your hands and fingers...
Great comparison demo! To me, they both sound great. Depending on the track, I'd use either amp. The Black* is more of an old school Marshall sound, the Mesa is more modern sounding.
Blackstar has EL34 power tubes Mesa has EL84 power tubes Some body below mentioned the Blackstar sounded Marshall and thin, that would be the el34 tubes. There are a couple options for power tubes that would shift the tone in the direction of less thin more chunk and bottom end in my opinion, my favorite is a JJ KT77. JJ also makes a 6CA7 that is right between a 6L6 and a el34, that should sound really good in the Blackstar as well.
First off - nice playing. I owned a Blackstar Club HT50 - was quite the amp at the price, but I found it struggled live at gig volumes - the clarity broke up on it. Since then, I've had a Mesa Mark V, and now a JP-2C (amazing amp btw). There isn't much comparison. Even in your short shoot out, you could just tell the note clarity and hear the Mesa just opening up so much more. And your not even using one of the most unique features of the amp - the 5 band EQ. It's actually where it sits in the signal chain that makes it what it is - It's not in the loop, but actually after the loop. It's why even buying one of Mesa's 5 band EQ pedal won't do what the the 5 band on their amps do. Don't get me wrong, I think Blackstar makes some seriously good amps, and I almost bought a Series One before going the Mesa route. That EQ though is the source of both frustration (because it's so damn touchy) and great tone. Enjoy your Mark 5:25 - a great introduction into the Mesa world!
I think it is fair to say that the Mesa Mark V25 can do what the Blackstar can do and that they can probably be dialed in to sound "pretty close" with the Mesa on the Mark IV setting on channel 2 but ..... the Blackstar can't even come close to doing the things that the Mesa can do with high gain, tightness, the umph you referred to, etc. The ISF doesn't even come close to the possibilities that the graphic eq of the Mark V25 offers, but yea it is 3 times the price. I appreciate the point you are making about the Blackstar, I've owned both, well I still own the Mark V25, but yea ... nice video, excellent sound and playing and great comparison!
The HT-40 has a voice switch for both clean and dirty channels and it really makes the amp, the 'modern' (pushed in) dirty channel is super tight with buckets of gain, compared with the old school channel which is a bit looser, but does less mental tones well. On the clean channel with the voice knob out it can be convinced to crunch up nicely even with a vintage output strat and there's loads of tubey compression, so just varying picking dynamics first from clean to snarling.
I think backstars are amazing amps for the money. I like the tone of it but the mesa is the mesa, also I don´t like that you don´t have many EQ options on the clean channel of the backstair but it does sound great.
I've got a Blackstar HT Stage60 combo.2x12 .One of the reasons I got this amp was the close proximity to Mesas,Marshalls,and the Fender type of sound.And with a good set of speakers it rocks. Good video ,new to your channel I will have to watch your others too! Cool stuff!
Very different sounds, but I couldn' t say one is better than other. Yes, Mesa sounds fuller, deeper, a more "epic" sound to my ears, but Blackstar sounds really nice, there is something "fresh", "bright" "optimistic" ( sorry for the adjectives, it's so difficult to describe the feeling of a tone...) in the way it sounds that changes absolutly the way I feel this piece of music (awesome!). I'd go for the Mesa (if I had the money), but I have to say I really like the Blackstar in this sample.
Antonio jnj i am torn between the two as well, which is why i simply could not sell my blackstar once i got the Mesa. i did just do a full review of the Mark V 25 in my latest video though so you can hear all the channels and modes if you like. its my latest video, thanks again for watching! any shares and subs will be truly appreciated and will help me make this channel what i truly want it to be.
I enjoyed both the track and your final conclusion. Very interesting comparison and I agree with you. Blackstar not disgraced by any means but shows what you get for a high end amp like the Mesa.
I think the gain structure and sound on the boogie is much better, and not so fizzy. BUT the Blackstar does sound very good. I too have a Mark V: 25 and love it more than any amp I've ever owned. Nice riffs too by the way.
Nice chops on the guitar. Ok, I love Mesa tone, which may make me sound bias. The most crucial thing after tone is reliability. Mesa is rock solid with reliability. I did feel more valve warmth with the mesa in your recording, both clean and driven.
I have Blackstar HT 60 amp and is a great amp, has a great tone. Mesa has a bit color, but is very expensive. With a Blackstar you have a great sound, is te best amp that i had.
The JP2C even moreso .. Mesa cleans are just so generic though .. needs a touch of chorus to give it that modern sound/thing since it lacks the chime and vibrance of a vintage circuit ..
Andreas Nold i use the Sennheiser E609. please check out my video of the Sennheiser E609 vs. Shure SM57 to see how i record my guitars. I usually have the mic placed an inch from the grille, to the left of the dust cap just where it meets the cone.
Great review! Yeah, both are great tones, but there's just more complexity in the tones of the Mesa that probably only a guitar player would hear. I own a Mesa Mark IV head, so i can pick out the Mesa in the mix. But for the money, the Backstar is great. I'm actually wanting a Studio 20 as a second amp, especially for practicing, because my Mark IV is just too much amp to always practice through. I have to set the master volume to like barely 1, just for practicing. Good vid, thanks!
Mesa Boogie has a "richer" tone. However, I agree with your review. These amp heads are very close, and the Blackstar is clearly the better value at less than half the price.
Hey Man, Great video! I gotta say, though it does come pretty close, there's just nothing like that signature Boogie tone. Seriously awesome video though! Definitely subbing right now!
Patrick Williams I just talked to the owner of my local Music Go Round And he said that he sold his last Triple Crown yesterday. he is going to give me a call when he gets another one in and I'm going to go in and make that demo for you.
The Mesa Boogie wins hands down! Also, the EQ on a Mesa is why you pay the extra; you can get so many different tones using the EQ. I have the Mark V combo; it really rocks!
Sold my HT Club 40 to get a Mark IV. Never looked back. There was an artificialness with the Blackstar I couldn't get over. Could never get the power section to rock with the Blackstar. A lot of the deficiencies i found with the Blackstar is that its not a true tube preamp. The overdrive is clipping a diaode..so in essence the gain channel is an overdrive pedal build into the amp. The Mesa is another animal, an exotic sportscar. But there is a price to pay for it. I really liked the Blackstar upon first getting it, jamming it in practice...but had a big problem with it keeping up, and getting the tone to cut without being harsh once in a band setting. The Mesa far outclasses it. That being said. The Blackstar is basically a 1/3 of the price of a Mark Series amp.
I agree with you, the Blackstar sound very cool. But there is something what you can hear from the Mesa (especialy with headphones) that gives the snap. But yes tumps up for the Blackstar
I think upgrading the speaker on the Blackstar would go a long, long way. I don't remember the details now but I remember the stock speaker on the Blackstar is not great, especially on the 20. I have a 40 with a Celestion 75 Creamback in it, and it sounds awesome. The Mesa as you played it clearly had a warmer, fuller sound though. Would love to play one of those things in person. But the Blackstar is really really impressive for its market range. Really versatile, satisfying amp.
incredibly close the only difference is the growl on the Mesa is more pronounced and as the low end hits harder, I have the Mesa and really wanted it for more DI feature and the overall direction you want to take your sound with all of the Mesa features. Thank you for the video, was a good side by side!
For the price, the Blackstar is a kickass amp. I wish back in the day when I was learning to play, I could have bought an amp that good for that price. It's as good an amp for bedroom guitar players as the Mesa. Even though the Mesa is 10W/25W, when you turn the volume to "9 o'clock" it's way past being bedroom friendly volume levels - it's piss the entire street off levels. But... It doesn't have the tone of the baby Mark 5 on any of the channels. The 5:25 is one of those rare amps that have 'that magic' about it. Sparkling cleans to evil high gain, especially when you turn on the graphic EQ. It's a lunchbox sized 'history of classic Mesa Mark amps' and you can insta-dial in pretty much any famous Boogie tone bar the Recto series - Metallica, Santana, Dave Gilmour and the spangly tones of Andy Timmons. It does everything and does everything well with regards to tone. The only thing it doesn't do well is play in a big hall like its big brother the full size Mark 5 but at 25W you'd expect that but with that said, it'll even keep up with a hard hitting drummer with no problems in a fairly good sized practice room through a 4x12. If you mic it up and toss the sound through a good PA it'll be the last amp you ever need. If it had the 'solo' volume control of the 5:35 or the full sized Mark 5 then it'd be perfect. But, from talking with other Mesa owners, there's something that's unique about their amps. You'll often hear them saying 'the amp makes me play better' - not 'it makes me sound better.' There's something about that amps like the 5:25 that allow you to express the tonality better than anything else I've played. The guy in the video kinda explains it a little around the 5:30 mark in the video (it's like notes are individually distorted) but the amp almost taunts you to pick the tone a little harder, put a little more effort into the vibrato or that bend because you can hear the differences in tonality that you don't get to hear in other amps. It's not that those amps aren't good - they're just not as good, IMHO and to be honest the baby Mesa Mark 5:25 is more than just an expensive amp, it's a personal coach/tutor that keep you honest and makes you want to play.
I like the Blackstar better in this clip . Sounds more organic . The Mesa has that mid range honk I always hear from those although it sounds more defined. Considering the price on both in line with tone ?..The Blackstar is the better deal for me.
Love the recording!! To compare the Blackstar to the Mark 5:25 and not use the presence or eq because Blackstar does not have them is a poor comparison. you cant bypass the ISP control on the BS which is crucial to getting a tone and I would argue that the Boogie EQ and presence are similar tools. I own a Mark 5:25 and a Blackstar HT 60 soloist and I can assure everyone there is no comparison. The Blackstar on its own is a nice amp its just not meant to be or compete with the higher end amps.
David eakins Thanks for your kind words and insight! and thanks for the feedback on the fairness of the comparison. I will definitely take all of the suggestions into account in the future!
The Mesa sound better in my opinion. The Blackstar was not bad at all, just that the character of the mids and the low end on the Mesa stood out for me.
You said everything that I was about to say. For the $$, I guess the Black star is pretty good. However, the Mesa just has the richness, harmonic tone. Very full yet defined. I've always owned Marshall, but as of recent, have decided to grab a Mark 35 head. Just a great amp. Nice demo !!!!!
They are both great sounding amps. I think Mesa is the best made amp I have ever owned. They really don't cut corners on parts and quality. With the Mesa you are getting a real tube driven spring reverb as opposed to a digital effect. That alone would cost a person about three hundred bucks to purchase and hook up externally. That is just one of many examples. I guess what I am saying is that there is a lot in the parts and options that causes the Mesa to be more expensive. I see girls spending a hundred bucks on a purse because it has a label stamped on it, but with Mesa, you really are getting a bunch of high quality options wired in there. I had a Fender Super Sonic that I loved, but stayed messed up all the time. Have you had any problems out of your Blackstar? I love the Blackstar's overdrive.
THUNDERWORX Very good points. I'm sure the mesa cost had to do slightly with the name still, but you're right, the components are top notch. i have had zero issues with the blackstar yet.
the blackstar seems to hold up pretty well alongside the boogie. the boogie to me is way more detailed but hey for the price difference the blackstar is pretty nice.
Really cool comparison. To my ear the Mesa has a fatter low end around 100hz that really stands out in the palm mutes, and the Blackstar has more of a upper mid/Marshall crunch thing going on with a bit less low end. Whether it's the tone stack, or in combination with the different powertubes, because it does seem to come through that the Blackstar is using EL34 power tubes, and their character comes through a bit. The Mesa seems to have more girth to the low end, but also a darker rounder top end and a bit of the upper mids are missing. Not to the best option for AC/DC style crunch but good for the tones in this clip. Also good for that Petrucci Dream Theater style thing. The cool thing with Blackstar is that it sits in the middle ground between a Marshall type sound, and a USA Peavey/Mesa type sound. It can be fun to play around within that middle ground.Mesa Mark has it's own unique sound (that's very different from a Dual Rec for example), where as the Blackstar sounds more like a generic hot rodded Marshall tone IMO, but the ISF knob can help play around for versatility. One of the big differences with the Mark series is that it is based on a Fender style tonestaack with the preamp EQ in the early stage of the preamp with Fender values, where as Marshall/Soldano SLO style circuits have the EQ after the preamp with Soldano values. The Dual Rec is like a modified Soldano SLO with extra features. The Mark series is quite unique and it's hard for any other amps to compare to it's character. The Mark series is sort of like a Fender that is high gain and on steroids. Having the preamp EQ so early in the chain creates a lot of flub and distortion if conservative values aren't used especially for the bass knob, and that's what makes the Graphic EQ so powerful. Mark series has two EQ's where as Marshall style amps only have one. The Mark series shapes of the EQ of the preclipped signal and post clipped signal, where as Marshall/Soldano designs only shape it post clipping, and the EQ filtering in the preamp are set values that can't be adjusted. Not just Blackstar, but most amps can't get the character of the Mark series because it's so unique but Blackstar have good bang for buck, and sound good in their own right.
I bought a Blackstar to hold me over too. I've owned multiple Mesa's in the past including a MK IV. The graphic EQ is what makes the MK series sound like a beast! I can get a MK IV or V to get ridiculously heavy more so than the Rectifier series.. Match them with a Cab with V30s and its brutality. The MK V 25 should sound like that too. The VHT(50 or 100w) Pitbull could get pretty close too but IMO not quite a pleasing to the ear.
If you put a Suhr Koko boost in front of the Blackstar, you will get that missing definition and oomph!!! I run one into my Blackstar HT 60 combo and it brings it to life. Love these amps.
The Mesa is da bomb! You can hear it immediately, but the comparison to the HT 20 is almost spot on and the audience will never know - but your wallet will.
Great video and nice tones! I think you are going to have a blast with the V:25. The range of tones are insane! I just put some JJ EL84's in mine and it really opened up the sound to my ears.
Yes, both sound good but the Mesa has a responsiveness and GROWL that is missing with the Blackstar. I’ve had several BStars and find they don’t take boost pedals as well as amps with ‘more tubes’.
That was so close that if you listened to them a day apart, you'd never tell the difference. I've got a HT5 and it sounds great. I looked into bigger amps and ended up getting a Hughes & Kettner Switchblade. Great amp. Match one against the Boogie and I think it would win.
John Petrucci mentioned that "Whoomph" thing that you are talking about specifically in the video of him playing the prototype Mark V-25. It's a quality that I've only heard in a Mesa, so I know exactly what you mean.
the blackstar { a hot rod marshal} is perfect for what you want, the feel of the push back of a tube amp. With that said, You did not even scratch the surface of tones from the mark v which has the mark lineage that goes back to the 70's. The real challenge is can you get the axe fx to sound like the mark V ???
If you want to make the Axe FX sound better than you could imagine then search ebay for a Mesa 295 or 395 power amp. Another suggestion is find the 2U simulclass newer version which is just as good and you will not believe how it transforms the digital sounding side of the Axe FX into a beautiful sounding machine. These power amps are widely regarded in the top 5 most beautiful sounding power amps ever made because they are so musical in their nature. Also if you own any of these amps then whatever you put through them at a later time will also sound on a whole new level of sophistication and maturity:))
lol, hook an EQ pedal up to the Blackstar. An EQ on the amp doesn't justify the price difference and an EQ doesn't change the basic throughput of an amp. If they sound this close to each other without an EQ, they are going to sound pretty much the same with an EQ. The price difference between the two in Europe : Blackstar HT20 = 650 EUR vs. Mesa Mark V 25 = 2.000 EUR. No matter how you look at this, buying a Mesa in Europa will always mean you get ripped off big time and my wallet doesn't care if that rip off is by Mesa or by the taxman. The result is the same.
I had the Mesa Express Plus 5:25. My brother came over with his Peavey 20 mini-head hooked to a 1x12 Vintage 30. We sounded nearly identical until I kicked on the EQ. He bought a Mesa EQ pedal for $125 at a pawn shop and when he had that going I'd say the sound was 95% the same. I was so impressed by the Peavey mini-head. I don't know what service for a Mesa looks like in the UK, but if you live in the US, especially near a Mesa Dealer, it's nice to know you can just hand them back any Mesa and get it back in a few weeks working again. I am on my 4th (2 DC2's - 1 Express Plus & now Mark V) and they are tough to beat if you can handle the price. The also hold their value excellently. I think in 2016 the Mark V 5 was listed as Reverb's top $$$ earner.
Mesa Puts the EQ after the Pre-Amp. Whereas an EQ in front of the Pre-Amp with change the input signal response. That can be good and bad. But it's not what Mesa does.
I have a 100 watt marshal with el 34s and a small studio 1 6l6 blackstar, kentucky special 40 watt 6l6 blackstar and purchased the el34 40 watt blackstar combo to compare. I find the 6l6 studio one is very nice for distortion that isn’t very high gain, but a nice open fat tone. The kentucky sounds pretty scooped but at louder volumes fills out and is kinda enjoyable and tight . The blackstar stems to have a low end growl I do enjoy. But the thin nature of the 6l6 always makes me second guess it. Just feels hollow. The blackstar el34 is much more full sounding than the 6l6 BUT it highlights all the silibant and peircing frequencies too much. At lower volumes it’s fine but you notice how shrill it is at louder volumes, and all the finger shuffling and ice picky frequencies come in basically louder than the music itself. You can scoop the amp but then it’s just super dark. The Marshall I realized is just better for el 34 it I guess is ever so slightly scooped to take out those piercing frequencies . But sure the blackstar can get more low end but it is low end that really won’t translate well I think in many situations. The 6l6s sound better because they don’t emphasize the shrillness like their el 34. The el84 sounds like it doesn’t have that shrillness but idk. I don’t know if I need another warm sounding amp that cuts, I feel the Marshall is kinda king of that. I do think the blackstars will satisfy if you want a tighter sound, but I think mesas and Marshall still sound tight enough with extra musicality and naturalness in the tone. I know these aren’t the amps you compared obviously . But just a description for some people out there. If you play at louder volumes you sometimes feel harshness and wonder What it could be. I feel the mesas and Marshall can do the high gain thing and sound more pleasant. The blackstar can deliver a bit more ice picky sounds for sure at higher volumes, or smaller rooms at lower volumes . Also, certain pickups add to that. I just realized humbuckers sound flatter and way fizzier than these p90 Gibson’s I just got. I def have amps to do all the high gain I need and the p90s sound rounder and clearer with all the gain I want . Less fizzy and less harsh with all the distortion and slightly more character. Just in case anyone was interested!
I am a die hard Boogie fanatic...that lil Mark V is really something else. Love that tone...no eq either....sold. I am new to your channel...quick question: You said you weren't quite feeling the Axe through a guitar cab...I saw your Velocity...assuming that was the poweramp, have you tried the Mesa or Blackie power sections? Or dare I say both...in stereo?
I have had the Axe through the Blackstar power section as a pre, and it is definitely an improvement over the velocity. The velocity though is a great little power amp. So here is one of my biggest issues with the Axe as a pre in general...There is a noticeable volume drop out when switching patches via midi. So if you're playing a beautiful clean part and you're ready to switch a patch to lay down some killer triumphant riffage on everyone, you will hit your foot controller to switch the patch and then...........it finally switches and you are a few milliseconds late because of a volume drop out and you've lost your impact of actually coming in on the down beat.....song = ruined......ok maybe that's a bit hyperbolic, and maybe I'm being way too picky but for 2 grand, I should have enough DSP to switch a patch with ease. However, I put the Axe 4 cable method (4CM) through the front and back of the amp and stay on 1 patch turning efx on and off and it's great!
I'm running a Mark V 25 through a vintage 212 with V30. I have yet to find bad tone out of this amp. I had a Blackstar club 40 a few months back great amp if it's within your price range but the Boogie takes the cake. Clean tones only a Fender twin can rival and the crunch setting with the price of this amp just for this setting. Most versitile amp I've ever owned and I would defiantly recommend this to anyone looking for a new amplifier.
I'm with ya...I will however say that the clean channel on the blackstar is absolutely fantastic. headroom for days. I also love the option of being able to make it sound a little more like a Marshall, and the boogie has trouble with that loose British sound. I simply must keep both haha.
A few weeks ago I upgraded from a HT-20 to a Mark V:25 and I not looking back as I think the latter is better. The Blackstar has an amazing OD channel with lots of gain (helped by the built-in op-amp circuit in front of this channel) and it benefits from its EL34 pair, especially in the low end, but it lacks definition. The Boogie may not have as much low end with its EL84s and its tone stack but you can dial it up with the graphic EQ, it sound is richer with harmonics and overtones. And that's where the comparison ends, the HT-20 has a weak and forgettable clean channel (I had to use a custom overdrive pedal to bring it back to life). The digital reverb is not really good and only helps in making any hum louder. I'm not even going into the many features that this mini Mark has because, well, they do not come cheap. My verdict is that the Blackstar HT-20 is one of the best amps in its price range and quite the choice for a low wattage high gain affordable amplifier, hey, I had and loved mine for 5 years. The only issue are the stock preamp valves that are too muddy but swap them and there you go.
I have been on the amp merry-go-round now for about a year, and I could not find my thing. If I liked the tone, it was missing something, like effects loop or reverb. If it was loaded, it sounded bad. If it was perfect, it was too expensive. Last week a Studio 20 showed up on Craigslist and I drove out to try it. The previous one I had tried had the Rocket 50 speaker in it, which is a piece of junk, which failed the amp. This one had the Celestion 75 ( G12T-75) and man alive brother, did it make the difference. He wanted $380 for it, I laid $300 on the table and sid this is it, take it or leave it. He grumbled, but I got it. I have no idea if I got a deal or not, but my search is over. I have my amp. It is a bit heavy, but that is okay
Wow awesome content! What about some clips about the Mark V with a more scooped tone? I think it sounds great! Hope your channel grows much more! P.S: What do you think about cutting away some treble in high gain Mark V tones? It makes the tone much smoother!
First of all, Thank you for your kind words. I usually play the mark v with the treble well below noon and then I use the graphic eq fader and presence to dial it where I want it to be. As far as the videos with a scooped sound goes, ask and you shall receive. I really appreciate the input on the channel and love suggestions for future videos. Give me a few days to whip something up for you. I will give you a shout out in the video too. What type of bands do you Iike with scooped guitar sounds?
+Gearing Up Wow! Such a fast, kind and wonderful reply! I use my Mark V to play mostly Dream Theater or some Thrash/Progressive stuff, the way I like the amp more is Mark IV mode with 7 strings and a TS-9 in front of it, as you said it with the treble and bass way down. Thanks for the reply and best wishes! Have luck with your musical career!
+Kiss Shot Acerola Orion Heart Under Blade Shinobu I just recorded the song and the video! you should see it post in just a little bit! I had a blast on this one. thanks for the suggestion!
I own a Mark V 25 and I get why you did this demo although, there's so much more you can do with the Mesa... Turn on the EQ in that V shape and say byebye Blackstar. Did you use the cab sim on the Mesa or did you mic it? Great demo I dig the playing as well. Cheers
Both seemed like they fit a mix very well; the Boogie definitely had more "bark" though. A listener would never notice, but when the tubes are pushed I imagine they feel a little different....?
pterantula I have found that I prefer lower tunings through the Blackstar. cranked up, the blackstar can get a bit harsh with standard tuning. For these demos though I don't record at bedroom volume, I crank them up pretty high to get the best sound that I can out of them so you're hearing the tubes be pushed pretty well. I usually don't prefer an overdrive pedal though so there is nothing pushing the preamp here. Like I've always said, both are amazing.
I have a blackstar hd club 40 combo. It was replacing a Marshall dsl 100 head with 4 12 cab. So I’m a Marshall guy. I don’t think I’ve ever turned it to the American sound. It comes close to the Marshall on its gain channel but the clean channel is nice but it’s not the same. That said, I paid $400 for the Blackstar and the Marshall was going for $2000 When I bought it. I’m happy with the blackstar . With a lower price tag has to be some trade offs.
If I put a Blackstar AMp 60 INLINE, is good or a bad thing? Sometimes I Use it output on the pc, I think its better than AMplitube etc.. but i dont have money for a MesaBoogie
They both sound very high end to me and the single palm muted notes sound a touch better on the Balckstar...ringing powerchords sounded slightly better in the Boogie. The Balckstar is incredible for the money.
The blackstar only has 4 tubes in it. Two 12ax7 preamp, and two EL34 power tubes. You can get a pro one bias probe , and JJ tubes from eurotubes for less than $200. Upgrading the tubes makes a huge difference. I recently did my HT40 combo, and it sounds so much hotter than stock, and it only took about an hour. I definitely think the blackstar's tone is more Marshallesque, regardless of settings. But, with the tube upgrade, it really smokes.
2 GREAT AMPS! However, in order for the comparison to be truly fair you must engage the Mesa's graphic EQ. Why you say? The Blackstar doesn't have a graphic EQ how can that be fair? Because the tone stack of the Blackstar functions in precisely the same way as the graphic on the Mesa.
Huh?
The channel EQ on the Mesa Mark Series amplifiers and other Mesa/Boogie amps that have graphic EQ's, is pre gain. Look at it as if there were a 3 band EQ on all your guitars. It is tone shaping before the signal is smashed by overdrive. Where this helps is on the low end side of things. In essence, in a high gain circuit, attenuating the lows gives an overdriven signal more punch and focus since you are balancing the frequency energy before it enters the gain stage. Low frequencies have more energy than mids and highs. If too much low frequency content is allowed to run free in an overdriven circuit, it swallows up the mids and highs, bumps its head on the ceiling and leaves sounding flabby, or more precisely: like shit. Which is why your ears told you to run that Mark V low eq at between 2 and 3 on the high gain side. To keep things fair you did this to the Blackstar as well which is actually unfair to the Blackstar, because you are taking away the low end on an already overdriven signal, making the tone thinner than its designers intended. The graphic on the Mesa is in the same spot in the circuit as the Blackstar tone stack. Post Gain. And why that ridiculous looking V shape that sounds like poo on every piece of audio gear known to man, except on a Boogie it is glory from the teat of the Metal Gods.
Another major design difference between the Mesa and the Blackstar is the use of a diode in the Blackstar's OD circuit. The diode is overdriven rather than a tube. Its basically an OD stompbox inside the amp...and how the Blackstar can achieve high gain while only using 2 preamp tubes. It is not true tube overdrive. The difference is really felt when you start backing off the volume knob of your guitar on the Blackstar. Instead of staying creamy and warm, the tone tends to stay brittle as it cleans up.
I've owned an HT-40 and a Mark IV version 1. And for the money the Blackstar is a huge heavy rock BANG. It represents a guitarists ability to affordably get tones that range from high gain Marshall-ish to high gain Boogie-ish. Compromises have been made to achieve this that are felt, not just at the ears, but at the fingers as well. The Mark V represents the latest achievements of tube guitar amplifiers at the art form's pinnacle. A true masterpiece.
In closing, because of these stark differences in design, its a comparison that wont ever be quote-unquote "fair". (yes, grammar authorities, i did just do that.) That being said the Blackstar performs admirably here. But in my opinion, the Mesa tone has more life and depth of character, even with one hand tied behind its Boogie back.
Robert Heazlit this is an amazing explanation of both of these amplifiers, and I couldn't agree with you more. You should be a column writer for a guitar magazine haha. I have pinned your comment in hopes that if anyone wants more detail when they come to this video and they can read your comment and find what they're looking for.
Thanks man! If i have a knack for writing, it must be at the expense of my memory...looks like i commented on your video 10 months ago and completely forgot. I don't post too often, but i did here because i have worked with both designs pretty extensively. Nice job on the video too, I might add. Brief explanation at the top, both amps properly mic'd with a shot of the controls, in and out in 6 minutes. I wish all comparison videos are more like yours!
Robert Heazlit Thanks! I have tried a couple videos where I went into thorough explanations of the gear that I was reviewing, but I found it works better and the videos go over better if you just give the people what they want to see and provide links in the description where they can read about all the tech specs.
Great comment!!! I agree with you, the Mesa has something more, BUUUUuuttt, based on what you said, let's imagine recording an AWESOME rock song and performing it live: when using a Blackstar, would the lack of the Mesa's "something more" really compromise the overall quality of this music? Would you miss something really substantial that would make it cease to be an awesome sounding song? Considering how the ear works in most musical situations, I can say that the answer to this question answers why Balckstar is an excellent choice! There is only one possibility for the answer to be "yes, it whould cease to be awesome": the guitarist has a strong fetish for some consecrated brands and has some struggle to deal with evidences that he has spent a lot of money on behalf of the fetish rather than the actual sound, so he doesn`t want to feel like a fool. Anyway, there is NOTHING wrong with someone having lots of money and enjoying having and experimenting with expensive and consecrated equipment, which is another story... And, yes, man!, you should be a column writer for a guitar magazine!! Cheers from Brazil.
The Graphic EQ comes at the very end of the signal chain so you can shape the final sound with the only consideration being how
much of a certain frequency your speakers, cabinets - and ultimately your ears - can handle. (Extreme settings of the two lowest
Bands - 80Hz and 240Hz will use up power quickly and overall headroom will be affected, especially in the 50W and 10W settings
of the Channel Power switch). straight from the Mesa manual...at the end not before the eq controls. That's why the bass flubs out if you bring it up on the front panel but not so on the 5 band.
Edit* just realized you meant the front panel is before gain..doh!
The Boogie sounds better,but both sound good. You aren't being fair by matching knobs and not using features. Knob response curves aren't the same. If you are going to compare against a Boogie, make the Boogie sound the best it can and same for the Blackstar. Go for the same kind of sound, but don't expect the knobs to be the same.
I agree, matching knobs is one way to do but then you should try to simply match sound
I'm madly in love with my Mark V but that Blackstar sounded really great! It's got that lovely, gritty British crunch to it. Sounds very convincingly like a Marshall. I can get reasonably close to that with the Mark V, but not like that. That ISF on the Blackstar is so cool.
very close, close enough that no one sounds better than the other one but rather a preference to your liking. Mesa sounds darker. great vid. specially considering that the mesa is three times as much as the blackstar.
eduardo arellano barreto Mesa sounds way better
I actually really like the Blackstar tone. I think it would cut nicer too when in a mix.
Yes agreed the blackstar sounds like it is already processed as opposed to the mesa. All those frequencies it has would be cut to make it sound like the blackstar might as well cut out the middle man and save the $$$$
Interpreted as "Blackstar is what I can afford".
I have a blackstar HT-60 combo. I buy it because there is no stock of Marshall JVM in my country and any mesa head/combo is way over my budget. I have watched many mesa mark V reviews on youtube and always think that mesa is way better than my blackstar. Your comparison is the first one that show me that blackstar isn't really that bad. I even like blackstar tone than mesa. Anyway, thank you for this comparison. It's really an eye (or ear) opener for me ;)
Rendy Andrian I am proud to own a blackstar. They are fantastic amps. I'm glad this video was able to help!
I just ordered a HT20 combo on a black friday deal for 349. looking forward to using it with students. Sounded good to me, but the Mesa had a bit more character and life to it. Which it should for the price. Thanks for the demo.
I got the same deal for the Blackstar HT-20 and 3 months later I was as told the control board had to be replaced and parts were no longer available :: I'm working with Blackstar not see if they can source a board for me. Needless to say - very hesitant.
RNA MUSIC do the speaker upgrade in the combo and it's a completely different amp awesome
Mesa just has that solid low end. That has always been one of Mesa/Boogie's strong suits. My only critique of the Blackstar Studio 20H is that the low end is a little thin. I thought the Blackstar had a better tone in this video, but I feel like the Mesa Mark V could have been dialed in better than was shown. I am a new owner of this Blackstar head, love it, I got it on a blowout price for Black Friday.
As expected, the Mark is tighter and more articulate. Regardless, I can see a reason for going with one or the other but I am a Mesa lover.
They are really close, as you said. The Blackstar sounded pretty good. A bit less girth than the Boogie - but in the mix - it's so hard to tell the difference. The Boogie has a lot more girth, but with girth I think comes a bit less clarity. Depends what you're after. For me - I'd go with the Mesa (if I had to choose).
The Tone King
Thanks for the comment!
I would agree. Like i said in the video, I think the amps could be dialed in to be a little closer. I may need to revisit this one and instead of making the settings the same, i should dial in the best tone out of each.
The Boogie has so much more everything,gorgeous tone but the Blackstar is sweet too if a lil bit fizzier. The definitive advantage of the Boogie is the blue light. Blue lights are awesome but always serious $$$ for any amp with a blue light.
The Mesa made me smile right away haha I has that magical thing haha but great vids and the blackstar sounded great especially acknowledging the price gap between the two !
thanks you! I agree, it's incredible how inexpensive the Blackstar is and how good it actually sounds.
I like the brightness if the blackstar, reminds me of these Diesel amps some of the Japanese melodic punks bands play.
Boogie slays!! The low mids are nicer with the MKV25!!
Dude, great amp demo. I have a Mesa Dual Rectifier and an old 50 caliber. Love them both. i also have both Egnater Tweakers, 15 w and 40 w. I love them both. In any case, all of the amps mentioned by both you and me have great potential for any player. They are all good. Some amps fit playing styles a little better than others but overall, they are all good. Thanks for the demo.
jake smith
Thanks for the kind words! i would love to get my hands on an old 50 cal.
For the money, Blackstar amps are really fantastic. I actually favour the HT5 over the HT60.
I put the heads through a Matrix NL212 which is quite trebly, so it balances out the darkness of the Blackstars to give a REALLY nice sound.
Blackstar sounds pretty good but Mesa wins anyway pretty clearly. Mesa has much more definition and overall grind and also littlebit more low end. Blackstar sounds pretty basic but it's not bad at all!
Not sure what this word 'basic' means in terms of tone. But if you're searching for EVH, or other hot rodded Marshall 80's rock tones, the Blackstar will get the upper mid crunch a bit better. For rounder modern tones like Dream Theater, the Mark will work better.
Henry Widell I've had 2 Boogies for years. An F50 and Express 5.50. The clean channels are VERY low volume and noisy as hell. Just loud mush. Just bought a Blackstar Artist 30. It's about 4 times the volume, almost COMPLETELY quiet and the sound is so much better.
i have both of these amps, and i will gladly take the mesa boogie without question any day. i can not stand the limited sound/tone of the blackstar. the boogie is worth every penny.
Plus the Eq on the boogie pushes it to another level once enabled.
Of course the Mesa sounds better. Its a better amp all around BUT it is also almost 3x the price.... The blackstar is a great amp for the money and comes pretty close as he said.
thank you sir
Well said.
Frankie Boots the Mesa is a generic metal amp that’s way over priced. Blackstar has better tone in my opinion.
The Loser and the Boozer Podcast Tere are older Mesa amps that you can find used which sound far better than the Blackstar and cost roughly the same money. I have the Studio 20 combo and its a good amp but it will never be the real thing, the tubes are completely different. Mesa amps like the Studio .22 and .50 caliber are fantastic amps for the money, I've seen some sell on reverb for around the £600 mark which is a bargain. I do agree that the mark 5 and a lot of other Mesa amps are overpriced but there are diminishing returns like with almost anything you buy.
Nice demo Man...
Although is worth mentioning one thing that I realized after more than 15 years playing... tone its greatly in your hands and fingers...
M Valencia
You are absolutely right. thank you!
Miguel Valencia
Great comparison demo! To me, they both sound great. Depending on the track, I'd use either amp. The Black* is more of an old school Marshall sound, the Mesa is more modern sounding.
Steve Herb Thanks!
Blackstar sounded better to me! I have the HT 60 and I can say: This amp is awesome!
Blackstar has EL34 power tubes
Mesa has EL84 power tubes
Some body below mentioned the Blackstar sounded Marshall and thin, that would be the el34 tubes.
There are a couple options for power tubes that would shift the tone in the direction of less thin more chunk and bottom end in my opinion, my favorite is a JJ KT77. JJ also makes a 6CA7 that is right between a 6L6 and a el34, that should sound really good in the Blackstar as well.
First off - nice playing. I owned a Blackstar Club HT50 - was quite the amp at the price, but I found it struggled live at gig volumes - the clarity broke up on it. Since then, I've had a Mesa Mark V, and now a JP-2C (amazing amp btw). There isn't much comparison. Even in your short shoot out, you could just tell the note clarity and hear the Mesa just opening up so much more. And your not even using one of the most unique features of the amp - the 5 band EQ. It's actually where it sits in the signal chain that makes it what it is - It's not in the loop, but actually after the loop. It's why even buying one of Mesa's 5 band EQ pedal won't do what the the 5 band on their amps do. Don't get me wrong, I think Blackstar makes some seriously good amps, and I almost bought a Series One before going the Mesa route. That EQ though is the source of both frustration (because it's so damn touchy) and great tone. Enjoy your Mark 5:25 - a great introduction into the Mesa world!
Great demo of both amps. The Boogie comes out ahead with its more full-bodied tone.
Kevin Sedore
Thanks!
I think it is fair to say that the Mesa Mark V25 can do what the Blackstar can do and that they can probably be dialed in to sound "pretty close" with the Mesa on the Mark IV setting on channel 2 but ..... the Blackstar can't even come close to doing the things that the Mesa can do with high gain, tightness, the umph you referred to, etc. The ISF doesn't even come close to the possibilities that the graphic eq of the Mark V25 offers, but yea it is 3 times the price. I appreciate the point you are making about the Blackstar, I've owned both, well I still own the Mark V25, but yea ... nice video, excellent sound and playing and great comparison!
The HT-40 has a voice switch for both clean and dirty channels and it really makes the amp, the 'modern' (pushed in) dirty channel is super tight with buckets of gain, compared with the old school channel which is a bit looser, but does less mental tones well.
On the clean channel with the voice knob out it can be convinced to crunch up nicely even with a vintage output strat and there's loads of tubey compression, so just varying picking dynamics first from clean to snarling.
I like them both I just found the Black to be a little more fizzy in the top end. Boogie has that cutting through mid that they're known for.
I think backstars are amazing amps for the money. I like the tone of it but the mesa is the mesa, also I don´t like that you don´t have many EQ options on the clean channel of the backstair but it does sound great.
Solid comparison man. I think in this case, what sounds better is personal preference. Both tones are great.
Mark V any day! LOVE IT!
I've got a Blackstar HT Stage60 combo.2x12 .One of the reasons I got this amp was the close proximity to Mesas,Marshalls,and the Fender type of sound.And with a good set of speakers it rocks. Good video ,new to your channel I will have to watch your others too! Cool stuff!
bob bitchen thanks! I hope to get some new videos going soon. Life got in the way for a little bit but I want to get going again!
Very different sounds, but I couldn' t say one is better than other. Yes, Mesa sounds fuller, deeper, a more "epic" sound to my ears, but Blackstar sounds really nice, there is something "fresh", "bright" "optimistic" ( sorry for the adjectives, it's so difficult to describe the feeling of a tone...) in the way it sounds that changes absolutly the way I feel this piece of music (awesome!). I'd go for the Mesa (if I had the money), but I have to say I really like the Blackstar in this sample.
Antonio jnj
i am torn between the two as well, which is why i simply could not sell my blackstar once i got the Mesa. i did just do a full review of the Mark V 25 in my latest video though so you can hear all the channels and modes if you like. its my latest video, thanks again for watching! any shares and subs will be truly appreciated and will help me make this channel what i truly want it to be.
Wow, the Blackstar sounds really nice. Awesome playing. I love the Boogie tone but the Blackstar really can hang! Well done man.
Simon Belmont
Thanks! Really appreciate it! please check some of my other videos? my goal is 250 subs before January. please share!
Yes, both amps were well represented and the clips sounded great.
I enjoyed both the track and your final conclusion. Very interesting comparison and I agree with you. Blackstar not disgraced by any means but shows what you get for a high end amp like the Mesa.
I think the gain structure and sound on the boogie is much better, and not so fizzy. BUT the Blackstar does sound very good. I too have a Mark V: 25 and love it more than any amp I've ever owned. Nice riffs too by the way.
thank you!
pretty close! I'll go for the Blackstar.
I'm late to the game but I just picked up this blackstar head for $300 and I'm excited
Nice chops on the guitar. Ok, I love Mesa tone, which may make me sound bias. The most crucial thing after tone is reliability. Mesa is rock solid with reliability. I did feel more valve warmth with the mesa in your recording, both clean and driven.
I have Blackstar HT 60 amp and is a great amp, has a great tone. Mesa has a bit color, but is very expensive. With a Blackstar you have a great sound, is te best amp that i had.
Boogie just has a bit more color to its tone!
The JP2C even moreso .. Mesa cleans are just so generic though .. needs a touch of chorus to give it that modern sound/thing since it lacks the chime and vibrance of a vintage circuit ..
True, but i dont run my cleans as spanking clean either...lol
Touche! :)
Mesa cleans are generic? What?? Do you own a Mesa Boogie?
No but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night ..
What mikes do you use and positioning plus cab? What a great clarity of both of these amps.
Andreas Nold
i use the Sennheiser E609. please check out my video of the Sennheiser E609 vs. Shure SM57 to see how i record my guitars. I usually have the mic placed an inch from the grille, to the left of the dust cap just where it meets the cone.
I have a Blackstar HT 40, I drive it with a EHX East River Drive Pedal & MXR 6 band Graphic EQ, sounds awesome...
Great review! Yeah, both are great tones, but there's just more complexity in the tones of the Mesa that probably only a guitar player would hear. I own a Mesa Mark IV head, so i can pick out the Mesa in the mix. But for the money, the Backstar is great. I'm actually wanting a Studio 20 as a second amp, especially for practicing, because my Mark IV is just too much amp to always practice through. I have to set the master volume to like barely 1, just for practicing. Good vid, thanks!
entr0py1 Thank you! very kind words. would love if you would check out my other videos and sub if you like them! every sub helps!
Mesa Boogie has a "richer" tone. However, I agree with your review. These amp heads are very close, and the Blackstar is clearly the better value at less than half the price.
Hey Man, Great video! I gotta say, though it does come pretty close, there's just nothing like that signature Boogie tone. Seriously awesome video though! Definitely subbing right now!
Patrick Williams
thank you!
Any Time! What do you think about the new MESA TC-50? Could we be expecting a video demo any time soon?
Patrick Williams
i think it sounds absolutely killer. And I will try to coordinate with my local music go round to make a demo of it at their store.
Gearing Up awesome! Can't wait!
Patrick Williams
I just talked to the owner of my local Music Go Round And he said that he sold his last Triple Crown yesterday.
he is going to give me a call when he gets another one in and I'm going to go in and make that demo for you.
Mesa overall for sure but for less than 1/3 the price the Blackstar is very nice
The Mesa Boogie wins hands down! Also, the EQ on a Mesa is why you pay the extra; you can get so many different tones using the EQ. I have the Mark V combo; it really rocks!
Sold my HT Club 40 to get a Mark IV. Never looked back. There was an artificialness with the Blackstar I couldn't get over. Could never get the power section to rock with the Blackstar. A lot of the deficiencies i found with the Blackstar is that its not a true tube preamp. The overdrive is clipping a diaode..so in essence the gain channel is an overdrive pedal build into the amp. The Mesa is another animal, an exotic sportscar. But there is a price to pay for it. I really liked the Blackstar upon first getting it, jamming it in practice...but had a big problem with it keeping up, and getting the tone to cut without being harsh once in a band setting. The Mesa far outclasses it. That being said. The Blackstar is basically a 1/3 of the price of a Mark Series amp.
mesa sounds a bit more full, but i would be totally happy with the blackstar which ive been looking at to complement my 6505 mh
it would definitely offer you a better clean sound
I agree with you, the Blackstar sound very cool. But there is something what you can hear from the Mesa (especialy with headphones) that gives the snap. But yes tumps up for the Blackstar
I think upgrading the speaker on the Blackstar would go a long, long way. I don't remember the details now but I remember the stock speaker on the Blackstar is not great, especially on the 20. I have a 40 with a Celestion 75 Creamback in it, and it sounds awesome.
The Mesa as you played it clearly had a warmer, fuller sound though. Would love to play one of those things in person.
But the Blackstar is really really impressive for its market range. Really versatile, satisfying amp.
Put a G12H Creamback in my Studio 20. Best bang for the Buck!
great video! and yeah no doubt the Boogie has little more clarity under gain. but the Blackstar still rocks!!!
incredibly close the only difference is the growl on the Mesa is more pronounced and as the low end hits harder, I have the Mesa and really wanted it for more DI feature and the overall direction you want to take your sound with all of the Mesa features. Thank you for the video, was a good side by side!
For the price, the Blackstar is a kickass amp. I wish back in the day when I was learning to play, I could have bought an amp that good for that price. It's as good an amp for bedroom guitar players as the Mesa. Even though the Mesa is 10W/25W, when you turn the volume to "9 o'clock" it's way past being bedroom friendly volume levels - it's piss the entire street off levels.
But... It doesn't have the tone of the baby Mark 5 on any of the channels. The 5:25 is one of those rare amps that have 'that magic' about it. Sparkling cleans to evil high gain, especially when you turn on the graphic EQ. It's a lunchbox sized 'history of classic Mesa Mark amps' and you can insta-dial in pretty much any famous Boogie tone bar the Recto series - Metallica, Santana, Dave Gilmour and the spangly tones of Andy Timmons. It does everything and does everything well with regards to tone.
The only thing it doesn't do well is play in a big hall like its big brother the full size Mark 5 but at 25W you'd expect that but with that said, it'll even keep up with a hard hitting drummer with no problems in a fairly good sized practice room through a 4x12. If you mic it up and toss the sound through a good PA it'll be the last amp you ever need. If it had the 'solo' volume control of the 5:35 or the full sized Mark 5 then it'd be perfect.
But, from talking with other Mesa owners, there's something that's unique about their amps. You'll often hear them saying 'the amp makes me play better' - not 'it makes me sound better.' There's something about that amps like the 5:25 that allow you to express the tonality better than anything else I've played. The guy in the video kinda explains it a little around the 5:30 mark in the video (it's like notes are individually distorted) but the amp almost taunts you to pick the tone a little harder, put a little more effort into the vibrato or that bend because you can hear the differences in tonality that you don't get to hear in other amps. It's not that those amps aren't good - they're just not as good, IMHO and to be honest the baby Mesa Mark 5:25 is more than just an expensive amp, it's a personal coach/tutor that keep you honest and makes you want to play.
I like the Blackstar better in this clip . Sounds more organic . The Mesa has that mid range honk I always hear from those although it sounds more defined. Considering the price on both in line with tone ?..The Blackstar is the better deal for me.
Love the recording!! To compare the Blackstar to the Mark 5:25 and not use the presence or eq because Blackstar does not have them is a poor comparison. you cant bypass the ISP control on the BS which is crucial to getting a tone and I would argue that the Boogie EQ and presence are similar tools. I own a Mark 5:25 and a Blackstar HT 60 soloist and I can assure everyone there is no comparison. The Blackstar on its own is a nice amp its just not meant to be or compete with the higher end amps.
David eakins Thanks for your kind words and insight! and thanks for the feedback on the fairness of the comparison. I will definitely take all of the suggestions into account in the future!
Ht Studio does a good job considering the cost difference, but the Mark V kills it in the end
The Mesa sound better in my opinion. The Blackstar was not bad at all, just that the character of the mids and the low end on the Mesa stood out for me.
You said everything that I was about to say. For the $$, I guess the Black star is pretty good.
However, the Mesa just has the richness, harmonic tone. Very full yet defined. I've always owned Marshall, but as of recent, have decided to grab a Mark 35 head. Just a great amp. Nice demo !!!!!
They are both great sounding amps. I think Mesa is the best made amp I have ever owned. They really don't cut corners on parts and quality. With the Mesa you are getting a real tube driven spring reverb as opposed to a digital effect. That alone would cost a person about three hundred bucks to purchase and hook up externally. That is just one of many examples. I guess what I am saying is that there is a lot in the parts and options that causes the Mesa to be more expensive. I see girls spending a hundred bucks on a purse because it has a label stamped on it, but with Mesa, you really are getting a bunch of high quality options wired in there. I had a Fender Super Sonic that I loved, but stayed messed up all the time. Have you had any problems out of your Blackstar? I love the Blackstar's overdrive.
THUNDERWORX
Very good points. I'm sure the mesa cost had to do slightly with the name still, but you're right, the components are top notch. i have had zero issues with the blackstar yet.
Great job and playing!
the blackstar seems to hold up pretty well alongside the boogie. the boogie to me is way more detailed but hey for the price difference the blackstar is pretty nice.
Really cool comparison. To my ear the Mesa has a fatter low end around 100hz that really stands out in the palm mutes, and the Blackstar has more of a upper mid/Marshall crunch thing going on with a bit less low end. Whether it's the tone stack, or in combination with the different powertubes, because it does seem to come through that the Blackstar is using EL34 power tubes, and their character comes through a bit. The Mesa seems to have more girth to the low end, but also a darker rounder top end and a bit of the upper mids are missing. Not to the best option for AC/DC style crunch but good for the tones in this clip. Also good for that Petrucci Dream Theater style thing. The cool thing with Blackstar is that it sits in the middle ground between a Marshall type sound, and a USA Peavey/Mesa type sound. It can be fun to play around within that middle ground.Mesa Mark has it's own unique sound (that's very different from a Dual Rec for example), where as the Blackstar sounds more like a generic hot rodded Marshall tone IMO, but the ISF knob can help play around for versatility. One of the big differences with the Mark series is that it is based on a Fender style tonestaack with the preamp EQ in the early stage of the preamp with Fender values, where as Marshall/Soldano SLO style circuits have the EQ after the preamp with Soldano values. The Dual Rec is like a modified Soldano SLO with extra features. The Mark series is quite unique and it's hard for any other amps to compare to it's character. The Mark series is sort of like a Fender that is high gain and on steroids. Having the preamp EQ so early in the chain creates a lot of flub and distortion if conservative values aren't used especially for the bass knob, and that's what makes the Graphic EQ so powerful. Mark series has two EQ's where as Marshall style amps only have one. The Mark series shapes of the EQ of the preclipped signal and post clipped signal, where as Marshall/Soldano designs only shape it post clipping, and the EQ filtering in the preamp are set values that can't be adjusted. Not just Blackstar, but most amps can't get the character of the Mark series because it's so unique but Blackstar have good bang for buck, and sound good in their own right.
I say no here would be able to tell one from the other in a blind test. LOL.
I bought a Blackstar to hold me over too. I've owned multiple Mesa's in the past including a MK IV. The graphic EQ is what makes the MK series sound like a beast! I can get a MK IV or V to get ridiculously heavy more so than the Rectifier series.. Match them with a Cab with V30s and its brutality. The MK V 25 should sound like that too. The VHT(50 or 100w) Pitbull could get pretty close too but IMO not quite a pleasing to the ear.
Spot on man! Well said about the amp through a cab over the AxeFX.
Both have good points. Both work for me.
If you put a Suhr Koko boost in front of the Blackstar, you will get that missing definition and oomph!!! I run one into my Blackstar HT 60 combo and it brings it to life. Love these amps.
Great demo. I prefer the Boogie, overall a very balanced Guitar tone. Thanks.
Cool video, dang that boogie is so creamy in comparison. Got a 20 yr old dc 50, always boogie for me.
They both sound great!
The Mesa is da bomb! You can hear it immediately, but the comparison to the HT 20 is almost spot on and the audience will never know - but your wallet will.
during the song, I kept expecting Quiet Riot's "Bang your head"
Great video and nice tones! I think you are going to have a blast with the V:25. The range of tones are insane! I just put some JJ EL84's in mine and it really opened up the sound to my ears.
thank you! and yeah I have been having a great time with both amps! please check out my other videos and share if you like them.
Yes, both sound good but the Mesa has a responsiveness and GROWL that is missing with the Blackstar. I’ve had several BStars and find they don’t take boost pedals as well as amps with ‘more tubes’.
That was so close that if you listened to them a day apart, you'd never tell the difference. I've got a HT5 and it sounds great. I looked into bigger amps and ended up getting a Hughes & Kettner Switchblade. Great amp. Match one against the Boogie and I think it would win.
John Petrucci mentioned that "Whoomph" thing that you are talking about specifically in the video of him playing the prototype Mark V-25. It's a quality that I've only heard in a Mesa, so I know exactly what you mean.
the blackstar { a hot rod marshal} is perfect for what you want, the feel of the push back of a tube amp. With that said, You did not even scratch the surface of tones from the mark v which has the mark lineage that goes back to the 70's. The real challenge is can you get the axe fx to sound like the mark V ???
If you want to make the Axe FX sound better than you could imagine then search ebay for a Mesa 295 or 395 power amp. Another suggestion is find the 2U simulclass newer version which is just as good and you will not believe how it transforms the digital sounding side of the Axe FX into a beautiful sounding machine. These power amps are widely regarded in the top 5 most beautiful sounding power amps ever made because they are so musical in their nature. Also if you own any of these amps then whatever you put through them at a later time will also sound on a whole new level of sophistication and maturity:))
Kick the EQ on on the Mesa. Then it's not a fair fight.
lol, hook an EQ pedal up to the Blackstar. An EQ on the amp doesn't justify the price difference and an EQ doesn't change the basic throughput of an amp. If they sound this close to each other without an EQ, they are going to sound pretty much the same with an EQ. The price difference between the two in Europe : Blackstar HT20 = 650 EUR vs. Mesa Mark V 25 = 2.000 EUR. No matter how you look at this, buying a Mesa in Europa will always mean you get ripped off big time and my wallet doesn't care if that rip off is by Mesa or by the taxman. The result is the same.
You can even buy the Mesa 5 band EQ pedal and put it in the Blackstar FX loop. But that Mesa pedal is also very expensive. An MXR EQ also works well.
I had the Mesa Express Plus 5:25. My brother came over with his Peavey 20 mini-head hooked to a 1x12 Vintage 30. We sounded nearly identical until I kicked on the EQ. He bought a Mesa EQ pedal for $125 at a pawn shop and when he had that going I'd say the sound was 95% the same. I was so impressed by the Peavey mini-head.
I don't know what service for a Mesa looks like in the UK, but if you live in the US, especially near a Mesa Dealer, it's nice to know you can just hand them back any Mesa and get it back in a few weeks working again. I am on my 4th (2 DC2's - 1 Express Plus & now Mark V) and they are tough to beat if you can handle the price. The also hold their value excellently. I think in 2016 the Mark V 5 was listed as Reverb's top $$$ earner.
Exactly! The EQ is what brings the True brutality out of the MK series!!
Mesa Puts the EQ after the Pre-Amp. Whereas an EQ in front of the Pre-Amp with change the input signal response. That can be good and bad. But it's not what Mesa does.
the gain structures were pretty different
type of gain...the way it reacts...easily distinguishable...
I have a 100 watt marshal with el 34s and a small studio 1 6l6 blackstar, kentucky special 40 watt 6l6 blackstar and purchased the el34 40 watt blackstar combo to compare.
I find the 6l6 studio one is very nice for distortion that isn’t very high gain, but a nice open fat tone.
The kentucky sounds pretty scooped but at louder volumes fills out and is kinda enjoyable and tight . The blackstar stems to have a low end growl I do enjoy. But the thin nature of the 6l6 always makes me second guess it. Just feels hollow.
The blackstar el34 is much more full sounding than the 6l6 BUT it highlights all the silibant and peircing frequencies too much. At lower volumes it’s fine but you notice how shrill it is at louder volumes, and all the finger shuffling and ice picky frequencies come in basically louder than the music itself. You can scoop the amp but then it’s just super dark.
The Marshall I realized is just better for el 34 it I guess is ever so slightly scooped to take out those piercing frequencies . But sure the blackstar can get more low end but it is low end that really won’t translate well I think in many situations.
The 6l6s sound better because they don’t emphasize the shrillness like their el 34. The el84 sounds like it doesn’t have that shrillness but idk. I don’t know if I need another warm sounding amp that cuts, I feel the Marshall is kinda king of that.
I do think the blackstars will satisfy if you want a tighter sound, but I think mesas and Marshall still sound tight enough with extra musicality and naturalness in the tone.
I know these aren’t the amps you compared obviously . But just a description for some people out there. If you play at louder volumes you sometimes feel harshness and wonder What it could be. I feel the mesas and Marshall can do the high gain thing and sound more pleasant. The blackstar can deliver a bit more ice picky sounds for sure at higher volumes, or smaller rooms at lower volumes . Also, certain pickups add to that. I just realized humbuckers sound flatter and way fizzier than these p90 Gibson’s I just got. I def have amps to do all the high gain I need and the p90s sound rounder and clearer with all the gain I want . Less fizzy and less harsh with all the distortion and slightly more character. Just in case anyone was interested!
I am a die hard Boogie fanatic...that lil Mark V is really something else. Love that tone...no eq either....sold. I am new to your channel...quick question: You said you weren't quite feeling the Axe through a guitar cab...I saw your Velocity...assuming that was the poweramp, have you tried the Mesa or Blackie power sections? Or dare I say both...in stereo?
I have had the Axe through the Blackstar power section as a pre, and it is definitely an improvement over the velocity. The velocity though is a great little power amp. So here is one of my biggest issues with the Axe as a pre in general...There is a noticeable volume drop out when switching patches via midi. So if you're playing a beautiful clean part and you're ready to switch a patch to lay down some killer triumphant riffage on everyone, you will hit your foot controller to switch the patch and then...........it finally switches and you are a few milliseconds late because of a volume drop out and you've lost your impact of actually coming in on the down beat.....song = ruined......ok maybe that's a bit hyperbolic, and maybe I'm being way too picky but for 2 grand, I should have enough DSP to switch a patch with ease. However, I put the Axe 4 cable method (4CM) through the front and back of the amp and stay on 1 patch turning efx on and off and it's great!
I'm running a Mark V 25 through a vintage 212 with V30. I have yet to find bad tone out of this amp. I had a Blackstar club 40 a few months back great amp if it's within your price range but the Boogie takes the cake. Clean tones only a Fender twin can rival and the crunch setting with the price of this amp just for this setting. Most versitile amp I've ever owned and I would defiantly recommend this to anyone looking for a new amplifier.
I'm with ya...I will however say that the clean channel on the blackstar is absolutely fantastic. headroom for days. I also love the option of being able to make it sound a little more like a Marshall, and the boogie has trouble with that loose British sound. I simply must keep both haha.
I never liked the HT-20's clean channel, too weak for my taste.
A few weeks ago I upgraded from a HT-20 to a Mark V:25 and I not looking back as I think the latter is better. The Blackstar has an amazing OD channel with lots of gain (helped by the built-in op-amp circuit in front of this channel) and it benefits from its EL34 pair, especially in the low end, but it lacks definition. The Boogie may not have as much low end with its EL84s and its tone stack but you can dial it up with the graphic EQ, it sound is richer with harmonics and overtones.
And that's where the comparison ends, the HT-20 has a weak and forgettable clean channel (I had to use a custom overdrive pedal to bring it back to life). The digital reverb is not really good and only helps in making any hum louder. I'm not even going into the many features that this mini Mark has because, well, they do not come cheap.
My verdict is that the Blackstar HT-20 is one of the best amps in its price range and quite the choice for a low wattage high gain affordable amplifier, hey, I had and loved mine for 5 years. The only issue are the stock preamp valves that are too muddy but swap them and there you go.
In the end... Who's the one who knocks? Both. Thanks for the video man!
I have been on the amp merry-go-round now for about a year, and I could not find my thing. If I liked the tone, it was missing something, like effects loop or reverb. If it was loaded, it sounded bad. If it was perfect, it was too expensive. Last week a Studio 20 showed up on Craigslist and I drove out to try it. The previous one I had tried had the Rocket 50 speaker in it, which is a piece of junk, which failed the amp. This one had the Celestion 75 ( G12T-75) and man alive brother, did it make the difference. He wanted $380 for it, I laid $300 on the table and sid this is it, take it or leave it. He grumbled, but I got it. I have no idea if I got a deal or not, but my search is over. I have my amp. It is a bit heavy, but that is okay
Wow awesome content! What about some clips about the Mark V with a more scooped tone? I think it sounds great! Hope your channel grows much more!
P.S: What do you think about cutting away some treble in high gain Mark V tones? It makes the tone much smoother!
First of all, Thank you for your kind words. I usually play the mark v with the treble well below noon and then I use the graphic eq fader and presence to dial it where I want it to be.
As far as the videos with a scooped sound goes, ask and you shall receive. I really appreciate the input on the channel and love suggestions for future videos. Give me a few days to whip something up for you. I will give you a shout out in the video too. What type of bands do you Iike with scooped guitar sounds?
+Gearing Up Wow! Such a fast, kind and wonderful reply! I use my Mark V to play mostly Dream Theater or some Thrash/Progressive stuff, the way I like the amp more is Mark IV mode with 7 strings and a TS-9 in front of it, as you said it with the treble and bass way down. Thanks for the reply and best wishes! Have luck with your musical career!
+Kiss Shot Acerola Orion Heart Under Blade Shinobu I just recorded the song and the video! you should see it post in just a little bit! I had a blast on this one. thanks for the suggestion!
+Gearing Up Wow so fast man! Thanks for taking my advice so seriously, I've just become a fan of yours! Best wishes!
Nice job on the demo! However, Boogie got more bite:) Would love for you to do a comparison with the Vox amp
comparing what to the vox? and which vox?
I own a Mark V 25 and I get why you did this demo although,
there's so much more you can do with the Mesa...
Turn on the EQ in that V shape and say byebye Blackstar.
Did you use the cab sim on the Mesa or did you mic it?
Great demo I dig the playing as well.
Cheers
Both seemed like they fit a mix very well; the Boogie definitely had more "bark" though. A listener would never notice, but when the tubes are pushed I imagine they feel a little different....?
pterantula I have found that I prefer lower tunings through the Blackstar. cranked up, the blackstar can get a bit harsh with standard tuning. For these demos though I don't record at bedroom volume, I crank them up pretty high to get the best sound that I can out of them so you're hearing the tubes be pushed pretty well. I usually don't prefer an overdrive pedal though so there is nothing pushing the preamp here. Like I've always said, both are amazing.
The Mesa sounds more organic but both amps are amazing!
I have a blackstar hd club 40 combo. It was replacing a Marshall dsl 100 head with 4 12 cab. So I’m a Marshall guy. I don’t think I’ve ever turned it to the American sound. It comes close to the Marshall on its gain channel but the clean channel is nice but it’s not the same. That said, I paid $400 for the Blackstar and the Marshall was going for $2000 When I bought it. I’m happy with the blackstar . With a lower price tag has to be some trade offs.
BANG YOUR HEAD! I was just waiting for the lyrics to kick in.
Mike Krenz
hahaha never even noticed that.
If I put a Blackstar AMp 60 INLINE, is good or a bad thing? Sometimes I Use it output on the pc, I think its better than AMplitube etc.. but i dont have money for a MesaBoogie
about 3 times cheaper that tone comes pretty damn close!
Guitar Nut Right!?
Guitar Nut how can anything be "three times cheaper"
Maybe you meant to say one third the price? Or the Mesa is three times more expensive
you are right... :D
sakimano 😂😂😂
They both sound very high end to me and the single palm muted notes sound a touch better on the Balckstar...ringing powerchords sounded slightly better in the Boogie. The Balckstar is incredible for the money.
The blackstar only has 4 tubes in it. Two 12ax7 preamp, and two EL34 power tubes. You can get a pro one bias probe , and JJ tubes from eurotubes for less than $200. Upgrading the tubes makes a huge difference. I recently did my HT40 combo, and it sounds so much hotter than stock, and it only took about an hour. I definitely think the blackstar's tone is more Marshallesque, regardless of settings. But, with the tube upgrade, it really smokes.
I love Blackstar but Mesa has the right stuff in the right places...even w/out the EQ engaged.