How CLOSE is Automobilista 2 to Forza Motorsport?
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- If ACC and iRacing communities have to take it, Forza Motorsport is going up against Automobilista 2 this time! Don't forget, Forza might not claim to be a full simulator, but the similarities and differences between two games with different audiences are interesting to put side by side.
AGAIN, like ACC and iRacing before it, look at how closely I am able to lap the Brabham BT62 in Forza Motorsport with the same techniques and intensity that I do in AMS2.
Forza provides an extremely close laptime and race experience IN THIS SPECIFIC CASE for a title more focused on CarPG, grinding and collection than being an out-and-out simulator. Novices to the racing scene could easily find their feet in Forza Motorsport before moving on to something more "serious" like AMS2.
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My complete racing setup is listed below:
➡️ SIMAGIC Alpha Mini Wheel Base
➡️ SIMAGIC GT1-R / GSI Formula Pro Elite
➡️ SIMAGIC P2000 Pedals
➡️ Custom aluminium profile rig with GT Omega RS6 Simulator Seat
➡️ GT Omega ART Simulator Monitor Stand
PC:
➡️ AMD Ryzen 5600X Processor
➡️ G.Skill Trident Z Neo 32GB (2 x 16GB) 3200MHz DDR4
➡️ MSI GeForce RTX 3080 VENTUS 3X PLUS OC LHR 10GB Graphics Card
➡️ 1TB WD Blue NVMe SSD
➡️ MSI Optix MAG322CQR Quad HD (1440p/165Hz) 32" Curved Gaming Monitor
STREAM/VIDEO:
➡️ Shure MV7 Microphone
➡️ Elgato Facecam Pro
➡️ Elgato Stream Deck
#Forza #Forza8 #ForzaMotorsport #forzamotorsport8 #forzamotorsport2023 #simracing #simcade #simulation #brabhambt62 #brabham #barcelonagp #pcgaming #xboxgaming #turn10studios #ams2 #automobilista2 #youtubegaming
That's 3 simulators put up against Forza Motorsport now, and 3 pretty close calls in terms of same-car-same-track performance. The recent support for the channel has been wild, so thank-you all. Consider subscribing if you want to see more comparisons, opinions and racing highlights 🧡
ANOTHER great job on the comparisons of the sims! Though, I really have to say that you got REALLY lucky, on the Forza AI, NOT beating you up on that race...lol Unlike AMS2's AI, Forza AI tends to slow down and brake at the WORST moments on a course. Albiet, I will admit, that AMS 2's AI is VERY predictable at certain points on a track, whereas Forza AI, is the MOST unpredictable, which is isn't always a good thing for AI racing.
After my last video absolutely going to town on the Drivatars, nobody was more surprised and relieved than me to get through relatively untouched 😂
Thanks so much for watching & leaving a comment 👍
@@hotcircuit
Forza is aimed at a different crowd. Ams2 has class leading AI although there are still areas that need improving, Reiza have worked tirelessly on their sim and it's really paying off.
It sure is, the commitment Kunos and Reiza have shown to constant improvement of their most recent titles gives me faith in the genre.
I find it that 110AI in AMS2 is too weak for anyone with experience on car /track racecraft and decent setup.
If you’re in a completely new car and track 110 can be fun as a learning experience while racing.
It's not necessarily consistent as I tend to move between 106-120 depending on the car class. Admittedly though I don't lend much time to setup, so perhaps the cars I need to bring back a touch would be faster in my hands if I adjusted some things.
I must admit the ongoing developments where setups would have to be reset after new tyre or physics changes put me off spending time there until things had settled down. Maybe now is a good time to dive back in.
@@hotcircuit Depends on how comfortable you are with coming up with setups or just getting other's from Time Trial records.
It's not as braking as a big update in ACC (which is rare) that renders OP meta setups useless... and everyone is try harding for the best setup and even paying for it.
I love ACC and use it quite often but the level of try harding for me personally, it's too much.
I wanted to try Forza a while ago but I rarely have time to have fun with all the sims and content at my disposal already. From what many said on YT, Forza didn't feel like driving but more just like a game.
Somehow I find AC and AMS1 to be my favourites. (ACC still most realistic) but the SOP feel on those old titles is special.
Specially for the pedal inputs and the way the telemetry looks.
For me the reason we sim race with nice rigs is to emulate the techniques and if I drive with the pedals as on and off buttons that puts me off immediately.
Driving IRL on rain and getting a similar grip loss feel on the sim is what it is all about for me. If it's not trying it's best to match reality, it's not a sim.
AMS2 is in a whole new league above FM8....in my opnion FM8 was a MASSIVE let down. I quit playing it after maybe 10 days and have not touched it since. It's so vanilla and boring...nothing new to it. I liked FM7 more tbh...
Your opinion resonates with many I'm sure as the player numbers are dropping off bigtime. I feel FM has snatched defeat from the jaws of victory because it comes off pretty accurately against the simulators in these tests - but there's no character or polish in the rest of the title to make it an attractive choice. I still hope the updates address the flaws, as people paid good money for it.
I wish Reiza had the same budget as T10 or Polyphony. I find the racing so much more competitive in AMS2, In Forza I has always been the case that the AI just gives up once you pass it and unless you make a serious mistake it won't regain positions..
I feel the same about Kunos although I'm sure the sales figures of AC2 won't be too shabby for their income. AMS2 has been a weird one for me as I desperately wanted to like it early on but couldn't enjoy it to the max with the weird feeling cars. They've clawed it back for sure and it's nearly the full package now as the player figures are reflecting.
Why are you comparing a joke game like Forza with AMS2?
Because it subverts expectations to see the simulator Forza is up against (I've also done iRacing and ACC) perform very closely on-track. For me, this makes me ask questions about precisely which smaller differences are the ones enhancing my sim racing experience over a less-hardcore "game".
I love to support small content creators like you, hope your channel grows bigger and bigger. love your content, keep up the good work!
Really appreciate the kind words, it's a huge boost to have your support 👍
This kinds of games must be played online multiplayer against good players not against AI.
The big problem in FM are how much we must stay to tunning because without turning the cars are so worse, this is not reallity 😢😢😢
I have more fun online in pretty much every racing game out there including Forza but the recent AMS2 AI improvements make for a future career mode that'd be enjoyable, I think.
Still seeing the FM AI braking on corner exit for no real reason, which for me seems to be the major cause of those mid corner "OH S**T!" moments where you have to take avoiding action.
AMS2 AI has got a habit of blocking by moving across as you showed but generally I find it's quite rare.
I had a race pre v1.5 in the GTE's @ Spa where I was flying up Eau rouge flat out side by side with the AI @~150mph and not a single issue, I left them room and they did likewise.
Same race and cars in FM? They ALL had to brake to make it & stay on track, even worse was the AI lack of pace, to the point that coming from 18th to 1st took just over 1 lap vs max AI and they literally gave up entirely as soon as I was ahead, whilst AMS2 I went from dead last to 1st but it took over 3 laps (@100% & max aggression) and by the end of the race the entire field in AMS2 was closer then the 3rd placed AI in FM, one of FM's AI was even lapped by the end of the race!
On top of this the laptimes for the FM AI were at best over 8.8 seconds of the WEC laptimes set there in 2019 6hr of Spa whilst AMS2 AI fastest was just 3 seconds off that same time, if I'd set the AI to max they'd have been seriously hard if not impossible to catch over the 5 lap races I ran in both games.
What is another massive issue for me is FM appears to be in permanent "soft focus" which I cn even see in your vid here, plus, like seen in your run to T1 the shadows and LOD update appears to make the trees change colour rapidly and, in some cases, gaps appear where they weren't apparent further away (02:34-02:36), for me that a massive immersion breaker as it's a permanent "feature" of the game atm, it seriously make them appear to go from cardboard cutouts on a stick to 3D objects of a completely different shape and colour..
Yeah AMS2 has LOD update issues but they're far more subtle and not EVERYWHERE you look, nor as drastic in their changes..
I WANT FM to look & work great but, right now, it's a blurry mess making me feel my eyes need testing or flat out causes headaches as I'm constantly trying to compensate for that blurring by adjusting my eyes to attempt to resolve the image in sharper detail...
I seriously regret saving my cash for it instead of opting for AMS2's paddock club where I'd have become a development tester for around the same price as AMS2's season pass.
C'est la vie...
All of what you said about the AI is correct, for sure I'd pick AMS2 tuned a bit for strength/aggression for single player right now.
I'd become a bit desensitised to the "blur" you speak of, do you think it's from trying to minimise frame issues with DLSS? I reduce my play videos from the 1440p that I play in to 1080p for RUclips, so downscaling like that should let me retain a crisper quality than upscaling, so I think it's the game settings, not the production process.
@@hotcircuitIn DF's vid a while back they mentioned that DLAA is much better than both console with minimum TAA (performance mode) and also TAA @ max on AMD cards, If they'd allow us use of MSAA adaptive MSAA or Supersampling I think it'd be a non issue. but that's down to MS/T10 to decide.
I just think they did an extremely poor job at PC optimisation and tbh I seriously doubt they even allowed ANY PC owners into the closed beta (probably for fear of piracy before launch).
I think this and the plethora of other issues inc AI and the trees changing colour and even shape as they hit the LOD draw distance threshold CTD's plus the quite frankly useless MP ratings system and penalty system are the major cause the game has an 8.4 rating on metacritic from console players but a mere 4 on PC, as for Steam player reviews it's 37% positive and dropping right now.
If they can fix it I think they got their work cut out for them and it'll take at LEAST a year to get it completely sorted. Worse still is player numbers on SteamDB are STILL falling as well, from 4700+ at launch it's barely hitting over 1000 on Saturdays whilst even AMS2 has been routinely beating it for over a month and now has twice the players since Le-Mans dropped.
Yeah there's crossplay keeping the player numbers higher in total but, given AMS2 could run on a toaster PC it'd make FM look silly on console too if it ever released, especially if they released it at low prices...
I might well re-install FM and see if AMD driver settings can override the TAA and sort the blurring but if not it'll get wiped off the SSD and left for good in the digital bin. If I COULD get a refund on FM I'd rip steams arm off in the rush cause atm there's zero in the game for me except teeth grinding frustration, I don't race for that though...
@@SRS13Rastus Consoles with AMS2 (and we know it can probably be done without too much issue on Madness engine) would be all the richer for it. I wonder if it's on their roadmap?
@@hotcircuitWell PC2 certainly launched on the consoles so no major reason it couldn't.
What I think would shoot the idea down in flames though is Reizas staffing levels being too low and that they're apparently partnering on Ian Bells GTR Revival in a consultancy capacity.
Though it would open up the game to both current gen and last gen consoles that are still out in the wild, that's a huge potential customer base aside from the additional workload for the staff.
I just think it's be mighty interesting if they DID do so just to see what the player feedback would be like..
EDIT: ROFLMAO guess who did a vid on precisely that DF!!!
ruclips.net/video/A8xZN9LTh6I/видео.htmlsi=HjOXA8VerVNXPH2p
Or in a slight bend that should be full on. Or in Eau rouge in GT3s. Or in long straights. Or because it just feels like it.
I don’t even think Forza can even enter the chat vs AMS 2. Turn 10 flopped hard on Forza. AMS definitely has its quirks but hands down better than Forza.
Exactly, sim versus simcade
That's why I run these tests. Most people would throw Forza out of the argument without even trying but it produces similar results on face value (I've also done ACC and iRacing so far). So it's smaller differences like FFB detail, physics, community, racecraft of other humans taking it seriously that elevate the "sim" experience.
@@hotcircuit"Smaller" differences but you mentioned all what it really matter 😅. Like FFB details and psychics...
@@EdisonArias I meant those things can add up to more, but may not individually be better factors in all sims. They might not all be as important to all people in order to enjoy racing either.
@@hotcircuit - you’re absolutely 100 percent correct. I haven’t played the newest Forza game. However given the response by the community about the game, I’m glad I didn’t spend my money on this mega flop of a game that had so much hype surrounding it.
Also you’re right, people can enjoy sim racing however they choose but you can’t tell me with a straight face that Forza is a worthwhile game compared to the likes of AC/ACC, AMS2, GT7.
Oh hey look its AI me! well done AI me, gets better results than I do!
AMS2 has been sat I'm steam library for about 2 months now, i really do need to actually install it at some point and give it a try! Great video as always!
You're always a winner in my game! I've always had a soft spot for AMS2 but its control was hard to love back in 2020 despite being great looking and well optimised. They've improved it a LOT and it's nearly there in my eyes but some cars do slightly still feel like they're on an ice rink still.
@@hotcircuit yeah i heard it was running a weird hybrid of physics and tyre model that they are slowly going around and updating on the older content
how close can a simcade game come to a racing sim?
After playing both Forza and GT7... Ill play 10 year old Assetto Corsa, AMS 2 or even rFactor 2 before any console "sim" racer.
i want to try this game but i dont have a wheel. Can i still compete with a controller?
I don't know enough about the specific settings that'd work best, but I have heard AMS2 is wonderful on the Steam Deck so my gut feeling is it'd translate well to controller.
@@hotcircuit oh I have a steam deck so I’m gonna try it on there. Thank you!
I play it with controller when I just want to be comfortable on the couch lol Is very good, give a try
Pulled off a Rossi on last corner of last lap, do enjoy seeing that move. Great video.
😆 Yeah it was a bit! Glad you enjoyed it.
Forzas AI dont race, They make a conga line.
If they encounter lapped traffic, that's just more to join the party 🥳
Another RUclipsr pointed this out: Forza Motorsport's ai doesn't know blue flag rules! If you are gonna lap a car, or even the ai.. the car to be lapped will fight you or the ai.... yeah, game of the year material!
I did a Drivatar analysis where I found that too. I got reasonably lucky in this video as the behaviour seemed the most "normal" I've seen them drive. They must've not enjoyed being shamed 😆
I know how you can break the AMS2 AI, so you are on pace when racing 110, then play the career on low difficulty, make the win outrageous for five or six times in a row, then turn up to 110 again, it will make the AI faster than world record, its AI will shorten their lap time a bit based on your last race, if you are too fast they will stop advancing but they can be a lot faster if you always qualify in 5~6th or not finishing in 1st place, I play racing sims like NFS, so I push myself for the win every time(offline), the AI all become super racers after 4 races in a career season.
This sounds like my kind of experiment. Does the super-fast AI remain when you restart the game or is it only tweaked for that session?
@@hotcircuitIt resets after I started another career and goes down a bit as I take losses, I'm like one of those demented gamers, I say a lot of crazy things that has no proof whatsoever, also you can try turning their aggressiveness all the way up, it will make the cars close to you stick with you, if you are faster then they will be faster, if you are slower they will be slower with you compared to the unaffected AI cars, I never done any experiments, I conclude these things based on my experience, so it might not be scientific enough to present to professor and such.
@@hotcircuit In custom races though they seem to be fair and do their default time, you can know it when you skip practice session and qualifying session after their outlap, the simulated results will always give them a certain time, if you do custom races, their AI laptime can still be boosted with 100 aggressiveness but not you past pace, like in career.
@@ashiagefa646 Haha, I was just wondering how to reproduce it without screwing up. If I can do it, I could present it for the rest of the class 😄
For anyone here who's played FM but hasn't played AMS2 (and has a wheel), you need, need, need to get that game. I feel like it's the perfect bridge between the physics and handling models of FM and other sims, like AC and iRacing. The FFB is so, so good. The overall satisfaction of simply driving is great, although I noticed it's very car dependent. For instance, I'm not a big fan of the road going cars, and I feel some of the open wheelers are a little too glidey, but the following classes and specific cars are top notch: GT1 (CLK goated), GT3/GTE (911, AMG, BMWs, Maccas all feel great), GT4 (Cayman is fantastic), Group C (have to give the Sauber C9 a shot), M1 Procars, GT Classics (C3R vs 911 makes for perfect battles), and so many prototypes. It's honestly the most logical next step in terms of feel coming from FM23 imo.
But one point of criticism about the AI that's highlighted well here is how conservative they are under braking. It's better post 1.5.3, but still a weakness. That, and the simplified physics models does create for some mismatched pace in particular sectors, like Eau Rouge, certain race starts, wet weather, karroussel on the Ring, etc, where they tend to be unaffected by hazards and abnormal terrain circumstances
Amazing comments, thank-you for watching and taking the time to highlight all of that. I agree that there are some standout cars already and looks/feels excellent when you're immersed in VR. I love blasting around the Nordschleife like that in the Porsche 962C like I'm Derek Bell.
I will highlight that these comparisons are done without agenda and it's a pleasant surprise to see car/track combos ranking closely and being being able to drive them similarly (for similar end results). I think that cements the opinion that you can start the fundamentals of racing in Forza and move on to AMS2 or other sims without feeling out of your depth.
Apples - Peaches comparison
That's why I do it, rather than use it as a reason not to do it 😁
I'd say apples to rotten apples comparison.
Does the ams2 have the T50?
No, most of the car list (excluding some of the very latest game updates) is at game-automobilista2.com/vehicles 👍
@@hotcircuit the t50 is the only reason why i even have Forza, once someone else has it. Im done
@@pokemongoprofessoroak7792 horizon has it, if you want to give more money to Microsoft.
@@pokemongoprofessoroak7792 AMS2 has the car that inspired the T50. The Brabham BT42.