Ford E350 | 7.3 Power Stroke - IDM Testing and Wiring Repairs - Part 2
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- Опубликовано: 6 окт 2024
- Last time we learned that this 1995 Ford E-350 had a bad Injector Driver Module. This time, we try to find out what killed the module and do some upgrades to the harness. We throw in a few other repairs along the way. Enjoy!
Part 1 here: • Ford E350 | 7.3 Power ...
Uninsulated terminal kit: amzn.to/2Y5tr7P
Hose pinch pliers (I am using the 1-1/4" style): amzn.to/2BC86eF
Harbor Freight sells adhesive lined shrink tube that is pretty decent.
You know what those spikes could be the alternator turning off and on all the time because it's so High amperage. Maybe put regular alternator on it that thing looks scary
Even with Pico Scope 2204, some attenuators and defining probes manually, you get a better deal with this 200 USD scope. SW is amazing. You van even analyze CAN bus with this. PC needed.
www.picotech.com/oscilloscope/2000/picoscope-2000-specifications
Thanks for posting this stuff up in a comment so we remember!
I would think the glow plug wire made so much heat when shorting that it melted the sheilding on the adjacent wires wires.
Do you have a favorite tool for crimping Uninsulated Terminals?
I am not sure why 40 minutes of video about a truck I will never own passes so quickly. My attention span has been so destroyed by modern media it is quite a testament to not even think of skipping bits. Thanks for posting.
I love that you don't just throw parts at a problem and actually search for the cause of the problem. I learn a lot about being through and patient when working on something. Thanks for another great video!!! Keep them coming!!
I'll be 82 the 8th of Aug,
I've been working around cars sense I was seven. But I've never met or been around anyone like you. You amaze me, I love your channel.
Nice job Wes. You found enough "small stuff" + fixed it all - gotta call this one a winner. Grrrrrr8 video 👍
Wow, that was a conundrum for sure. Intermittent issues are the worst nightmare of any mechanic, but you handled it masterfully. I learned from observing your repair and while we still don't know for sure if you found it, I believe you did all you could. Great effort Wes. I have the 2001 7.3 F-250 Superduty so learning from videos like this are very useful for me. I hate paying the labor for problems when I can usually figure it out. It's a pain but you learn so much on every job which comes in handy when you are traveling and an issue crops up. You can never know enough about your vehicle. Thanks again!
I believe it was
A piece of electrical tape flapping.
I couldn't even figure out what people would've been talking about. I saw many things flapping, but nothing that looked like a spark at all.
Me too..was the only thing I saw at all.
😏😏
Nice troubleshooting with a clear diagram of what is happening in the circuit. Intermittent problems were my biggest headache when troubleshooting and repairing test equipment back when I was in the USAF. good job
Sometimes it's impossible to fix.
Hey bud, because you've mentioned those Braun lights, they have a standard 18650 lithium ion battery. You can buy a pair with a wall charger for pretty cheap and just swap the batteries out as needed. I'd say, don't cheap out on lithium ion setups, but you could be in for less than $10 shipped.
I was pretty disappointed with the runtime on those lights, so I've been upgrading all of mine with higher capacity cells, at least right now they ship with low end 2200mAh cells. We have a lot of samples and old prototypes at work that I can harvest pretty decent 18650s from, so now my Braun lights are mostly in the 2550-3000mAh range
When I was doing this sort of work one of the problems was the customer. Some would go to a different repairer each time the intermittent problem came back. This makes sure that every time the tech had to start again which also made sure that none of the techs could credit the customer with any costs incurred on the journey to finding the cause. I was very fortunate with my clients, they trusted me and we always got there in the end.
Yeah, that makes things very difficult.
meanwhile at Ford: "how will we keep water out of the computer? Frank, i don't know. (looks at shoes) i just. don't. know. [ long pause ] (looks back up at Frank) maybe we could put a little vent to let the water out?"
I really like the precision with which you carry out the repairs. I think this time it will definitely work forever.
Hey Wes it was great watching you work again. Nobody can take anything from you and the quality of your work. You always go the distance and do the job right. Good luck and thanks again
"There's your problem, lady..." You must be a fan of Eric O. At SMA.
Of course.
Eric O didn’t coin that term. It’s been a mechanic saying for decades.
We were saying that back in 1977 when I was a vehicle mechanic in the Air Force.
Thank you Lord for getting me out of Auto/Diesel repair before times like this.
Wes, you certainly go the extra mile for your customers. Great series on this problem van.
Thanks for sharing.
for me this is what makes it fun
Enjoying my coffee this morning while watching Wes work. Great way to start my Saturday.
Enjoy!
Woohoo.... watch Wes work, I’m set for the night
Wes, these vehicles come into your shop in such bad shape and leave so much better. Thanks for posting.
I have been Working in the maintenance service for 50 years. all problems are simple to fix. The hard part is finding the simple. You did a fine job on this one keep up the good work. Excellent video brings back a lot of memories
Well said!
00:37 as a Swiss i approve your Swiss Victorinox Knive
I've had many over the years. Definitely my favorite knife.
My arm turned to a pretzel simply watching the Dorman gasket install. I'll nominate you for Contortionist of the Year.
I am infinitely impressed that you got those valve covers out of that engine bay! I’d be sweating rivers!
I can remember watching a video from Letsdig18, he has a Volvo rock truck that developed a troublesome injector problem that his mechanic struggled with. Finally the fault as located, oil had somehow got into the wiring loom. The fix was to install a new loom. Something to bare in mind.
Common failure with Mack/Volvo engine harnesses. When oil level sensor or oil pressure sensors fail oil works it's way into the harness and all the way back to the ECM.
I had an E series with 460 gasoline. Same tight quarters. Pain to work on. I had a 1962 Ford van 6 cyl. My father and I rebuilt engine with block in it!
Follow your gut Wes ! I’m no mechanic,but I enjoy watching some one excellent at there art ,get good judgement through poor judgement , I’m fortunate to have 4 brothers who are excellent mechanics. Keep up the excellent work and exploring!
Holy cow!
That was a very involved process. Obviously needed all those "little" fixes (i.e., wires re-wrapped, glow plug fix, rear abandoned radiator lines, etc.,), no self respecting tech would just bypass that stuff, but no specific problem identified is a real head scratcher.
Hope the customer watches this video, to see just what all was done.
Great video, thank you sir.
He will.
I really enjoy your logical scientific approach to troubleshooting. I was an electrical engineering major and was impressed by your knowledge.
Thank you!
I forgot about that little scoop that came with my heat gun until I started watching your video's. Thanks for giving my old mind a jolt Wes
I'm waiting for my real definitive " there's your problem lady" t-shirt!! Top work as always Wes.
Even I, El Cheap-O of the inter Web, would buy one. And that's saying something.
@@stanwooddave9758 I think if Wes started selling merchandise he would make a small fortune. He has some great sayings.
Maybe once the pandemic blow over I can work on it.
Once again, great video. You continue to "do the right thing" by pulling the valve covers. You always set the correct example. I'm about to replace defective glow plugs on my 96 7.3, and reassured myself I had the factory valve cover gaskets. I then realized I got Dorman gaskets, not knowing any better. Your video reassured me that at least I have a chance with them if I'm careful. I had already purchased the same non-insulated butt connectors and heat shrink as recommended from your previous videos. I'm sure I would have screwed up the cylinder identification had you not pointed out that the engine is not a Ford, but a International (navistar in 96) Many thanks. Craig
The original harness is laid out in order of the cylinder, so you really just have to follow the original layout. It's not difficult. You'll know right away if you get it wrong!
@@WatchWesWork Thank you
This technology just blows my mind. I was a electrical troubleshooter ( not on vehicles ) for 30+ years. I could see this technical stuff coming when I had a sewage pump station know when it had a problem and start to talk to you with this electrical woman's voice. Then it would start to dial in order the sewage engineers. One at a time until some one answered there phone and showed up to reset computer and make necessary repair. Glad I am retired now. What I am telling you is I really have respect for your ability to analyze what you are seeing and knowing how to set up your tests. Great job! You seem to really enjoy the ( There's Your Problem Lady ) just as I did.
It's like a Sci-Fi movie...
Wes's, who ( me ) would have thought that even 10 years ago we would have a computer for a telephone? Yet alone 60 years ago ( me ). I know you were just a twinkle in your daddy's eye . I really enjoy watching WESS WORK !
Wes
Water in those modules are a real common problem. We take PVC pipe, and cut spacers out of it. Place the spacers between the fender wall and module and it helps keep water from just sitting on module, also helps to keep module cool. The dorman gaskets are the way to go !
Great job !!!
I really enjoy your trouble shooting tactics. For those of us who work on vehicles but not for a living it's hard to justify $4,000 worth of diagnostic scopes and so on. But you are very thorough when you diagnose a problem and I find that both refreshing and interesting. Keep up the good work.
Never throw out old inner tubed as they make great Covers for just about anything a guy wants to protect from water intrusion! An old inner tube could have been cut to fit the IDM. Great job as always sir..
greetings, Wes, I find when you have shielded cables the best way to iliminate the cables is to use a megga @ 500v....very watchable
I have a megger. I should try it.
@Indosarnia true. You have to know where that voltage MIGHT go and that would be hard to determine for most folks. But WWW has all that memorized and could do it in his sleep. :-) lol
Lan-yapps. Means “a little something extra”
Watching videos of power stroke repair makes me love my 12v Cummins even more.
1300lb engine with 175 screaming ponies! No wonder they last forever.
@@WatchWesWork the brain power thats saved working on a mechanical motor is priceless
12 valve is an excellent engine but I have never seen a 7.3 fail because of a dowel pin, or a block split because of poor casting. Back when the trucks were new stock for stock the 7.3 walked over the 5.9 for power and towing. Also the Ford was a far superior truck to the Dodges.
I think you solved it. For my money you are the "Sherlock Holmes" of mechanics!
I try, but it's not easy to track these things down.
Damn, I know all vehicles suck to work on these days but, it seems like you get the hardest ones. As I have said before in the comments, I grew up working in my dad's junk yard and garage working on cars and pickup trucks mostly. That was in the 60s and 70s. They were easy compared to today's cars and pickup trucks. I can't imagine working on the big rigs that you repair. It's good that we have young men like you to fix this crap. Awesome job as usual and a great video.
Well the easy jobs usually don't make it to RUclips...
I have to count my blessings having never had to deal with rust as you have. You have the patience of Jobe.
Texas and middle east never presented such, praise the lord.
Personally I would have crossed out "orange" and written "green".
I'm with you, I think the rubbed thru wires were occasionally shorting. A direct short from the HV power rail to one of the injector ground wires would have a pretty good chance of taking that channel out, and depending on how the module is built may have caused more collateral havoc. I'm not sure a short between injector ground wires would have caused that much of a problem other than maybe misfiring. Shorting the HV drive to real ground might also have cooked the module, though I'd hope that it had protection against that.
I think it has protection, but that protection has limits.
I changed the alternator in an 86 e350 motor home with a 460. I had to remove the radiator to get the long bolt out because it hit the radiator. Fun! This is probably where ford got its cab off for everything idea. I like you orange juice label. That’s how I labeled my not 409 soapy water air leak detector solution.
Wes I admire your honesty, non of us are know all's and you just being yourself shines through for me.
Thanks Wes for checking the injector harnesses, it took me all day and all call to my head Dr to get through this recording, of course I didn't listen to her, she just doesn't understand what it's like to work on a van, engine shoehorned in the bay chaffed wires, intermittent problem, multiple IDM failures and a costumer that just wants the truck back in a somewhat reliable state, great job, I'll be alright now have a good weekend
Very involved repair, great results. Wiring can make you crazy, my silverado would not start on occasion. Turned out to be the ground into the computer. After many hours of testing. I found it.
Wes, very nice work and troubleshooting! I agree, the worn through wires contacting each other AND them doing that often would ruin the module electronics. The water didn’t help.
Growing up in the fifties in the UK 🇬🇧 and taught by my grandad, have always called it 'insulation' tape. As always a good video Wes.
I dunno. We always call it electrical tape. But, like duct tape, it gets used for many non electrical things.
@@WatchWesWork When I was a kid they didn't have the plastic tape...We had FRICTION TAPE. ever see that? A type of cloth with some kind of sticky petroleum coating. It wasn't very sticky but once you folded it on itself it would stay there. It actually worked pretty good.
Wish I had seen this sooner. I had a spare IDM I would have sent off your way for free. Sat on the shelf in my shop for years till I sold the powerstroke and gave it to the new owner with a pile of spare stuff I had for it.
Oh no, asking the RUclips ‘experts’ at the end of the video what they think, you are a tough dude Wes.
So for the theories have been a lot more tame than the last video on this truck.
In the old days, the standard scope probe was a 10:1. Check the instructions for the scope and see if there is a way to reprogram the default. From a very old tech.
That's still the standard, there are lots of 10x/1x switchable probes out there these days, but most of them have extremely limited bandwidth in 1x mode, so best practice is to leave them as 10x unless you have a good reason why that won't work
THANKS A TON FOR DOING LONGER VIDEOS! 10-15 minute videos just arent long enough usually. Thanks for giving us your time!
Glad you like them!
you did a very good job.mabee the 110v that you fix ...the wire when is get wet from water cause biger amp draw on ficom or mabee also that grow plug wire cause the altenator to output high voltage spike or it water in ficom.you can get those but conector from grote realy cheap. in the pass i did one injector on those engine but it was a motor home chasis lot easer
Watchin wes work is always a good day!
Wes, you're a little off in your analysis of the injector driver pulse. The slope on the leading edge is the inductance of the coil limiting the rate of change of the current. As you correctly stated, a shorted coil won't have this slope because it doesn't have any inductance.
The little wiggles at the top of the pulse are the coil driver pulse-width-modulating (turning on and off rapidly) to limit the maximum current in the coil. The driver is either fully on or fully off; there is no turn-on current with a lower holding current. Some solenoid drivers have that, but I'm pretty sure this injector driver doesn't because the injector is only activated for about a millisecond.
The wiggle in the slope on the trailing edge of the pulse is from the recirculating diode in the driver module. Without the diode, turning off the driver would give you a big inductive voltage spike that would destroy the driver transistor. Instead, the diode keeps the current flowing through the coil and allows the energy to dissipate more slowly. When the diode finally stops conducting, you see a little inductive spike and then the slope falls more rapidly because the recirculating current path is open .
Thanks for another fascinating video. I like the ones where you explain your thinking. Ignore those people that want silent videos. They can just turn off the sound!
I'm not sure. If you use the scope to measure the voltage of the control side of the injector, you will see that the IDM pulses the solenoid, turns off, then pulses again at a lower duty cycle. That's the peak and hold. Here is a good write up of the IDM function: swampsmotorsports.com/IDM/Injector%20Waveforms.htm
@@WatchWesWork Wes, you're right and I described it poorly. The initial current ramp is the driver on 100% with the current limited only by the coil inductance. The 13 kHz wiggles at the top are the holding current with a PWM duty cycle of about 50%. But after that, the driver is completely off and any wiggles in the down ramp are just the recirculation diode doing its job.
A transient voltage is a spike, dip or fluctuating voltage that ocurrs along with the intended signal. They're usually unwanted so engineers take measures to shield, filter or suppress them.
enjoyed watching take care
The jug hat reminds me of those RTV dams GM recommends to keep water away from LS knock sensors.
That alternator issue brings back memories. I had a 1980 Chevy 1/2 ton van with a 400 and AC.. The only way to change the alternator was to take it loose, move it into the fan shroud, bring it under the motor and back up to the top on the other side of the motor where the battery and brake booster were. Then you could rotate it just right, align the mounting ears and remove it through a small gap, after bending the brake lines a bit to give you clearance.
That's crazy. I thought maybe I could get this one out the back through the doghouse, but it will not clear the firewall.
Wes i don't know squat about mechanics and i don't know what the fuck you're doing but i am here with my feet propped up on my desk and enjoying in aw what you're doing, you put a smile on my face man ... and as always it was a joy to watch you work🛠 thanks and bring on your next adventure 👍🙂
That's me, so entertaining...
Thanks for following up on this one Wes I'm confident you fixed the hell out of it!
I Love to "Watch Wes Work"! As to the question posed at the end of the video? IMHO, I agree with you.
Excellent!
Thanks for sharing. Your attention to detail is impressive and I always look forward to your honest approach to all things engineering, keep it up.
Damn son!!! The wax bottle idea won you the baling wire and duct tape award!!!!! Congratulations. Reminded me of the time I used C clamps to hold the toilet to the floor. Made me kinda misty to see you install that bottle!!!
Hmm. I should have used some baling wire...
Always pleased to watch a Wes video as I always learn so much. Also that IDM “hat” fix is what we’d call in Australia a “bushie” fix in that in the bush it’ll get you home. And or lasts to the end of the vehicle. 😂
Temporary unless it works.
Wes as always love your videos. I like the way you narrate every thing. I believe that project was dang if do and dang you Don't. I hope it stays working. Thanks for sharing.
Wes, way to stick with it! These old public service vehicles are a wiring mess. Just like the heater hoses to nowhere there's probably bunches of wire doing the same thing. I don't know how that could interact with the injector driver. I think you did an awesome job trying to find the ghost in the machine. Thanks for sharing!
Yeah, the wiring is always a nightmare. This one doesn't seem too bad in that department.
I see what the commenters were speaking of.
At 8:08 where you discuss comments; looking at the harness hanger at 1 o’clock under the drip edge, if someone had hung that harness on there with zip ties, I could see how those two wires could have rubbed through and shorted to ground.
As with the sloppiness of found or missing fasteners, it may have been cut down for diagnostics and not rehung.
At any rate, your thorough repair later in the vid addresses this, even though it was not the point of your repair…
Nice work Wes, always enjoyable to watch your perfection. You're the master of cleaning up over-the-top shoddy repairs, SMH.. I think your "hold my beer" remark (part 1) should have been plural..
Ship it. It sounds like you are on the right path. I think it was a combination of issues, too.
Great work Wes!
The brain drawing for the ECM was pretty creative. I seem to say the phrase "yea right" a lot when I work on vehicles as well. Usually when trying to break loose a rusty bolt or something of that matter. As you grabbed the first heater hose to attempt to twist off I said " yea right" about a second before you did. Lol
I don't think you will see that truck back in your shop. I'm not sure about the missing insulation from the wires, or how it happened . Sometimes the story is told right when you open the hood and where the wires were in relationship to one another if that makes sense. I think you have fixed all the weak spots at this point and it will rattle down the road till the body dissolves.
I hope so!
So in my lunch break from restoring my car I'm watching Wes work. Now that's done I suppose i'd better get back watching me work again.
Hup Hup. That's what my grandma always said!
Hmmmmmm, these ambulance conversations are a dead short on wheels. Don't know what the attraction is with these, they have sat idled the there whole life. Good job Wes.
Great job. Glad to see you are adding commentary. The silence was way to weird. You mentioned before where you got your small magnetic LED lights but I don't remember. Love to know where you got them. I am always impressed with the amount of knowledge you have. Thanks for taking the time to make videos.
Harbor Freight.
Amazing work. I once had a bunch of codes on an E-350 2012, Ignored all but right rear wheel sensor fault. Replaced it 3 times as it kept going out after a few hundred miles. Then I just lived with the ABS traction control lights. Also had a small and very small leak in EVAP system. Lived with that too.
When I got a fuel gauge issue and it would show empty when tank was full I had to address the issues. Got a steering wheel sensor code too....WTH! Multiple codes for wheel sensor, EVAP, and Steering wheel sensor. Replaced that in tank level sensor and EVAP canister above fuel tank it was broken and i only seen that when tank was lowered to replace fuel level sensor. That fixed all codes including the right rear wheel speed sensor.
Those engine and drivetrain codes are a computers best guess.. I'm assuming the computer could not decipher the conflicting data with the fuel level and assumed it must be a wheel sensor.
Had an issue with one of those idms couple of years back. Had a customer that had a truck that shut down/ran bad randomly. After a LOT of investigation, we determined that the issue was ”arcing” between some idm high voltage wire and the aluminium foil surrounding it. There was a small part of that high voltage cable that had green corosion, so the voltage probably went through there. After taking care of the corosion, cleaning the wires and putting new alu foil insulation the car ran good (and a new idm)
Yep, that's what I suspect was happening here, but chaffed insulation instead of corrosion. A pretty janky design IMO.
Hi Wes, for me the quality of the camera work and picture quality is excellent, really adds to a great watch.
Always a fan from New Zealand.
Cheers
Mark
Many thanks!
Another nice video. It is hard to know when to stop throwing money at an intermittent problem like that. You can only present the options to the customer and let them decide how much to spend.
Very true!
I sure do enjoy all I learn from your channel.
Had the same issues with my rear heater lines , did the same thing looped it works great
Lagnaippe.. Like a bakers dozen.
I still do it in my business.
Great way to build clients trust and your reputation.
Great job on chasing the ghost in the machine.
You got crust ? you got rust ? Trust is a must -- watch Wes work !
Ah, great timing.
Just ordered myself some pizza delivery to fatten up a bit.
Wes video just came.
I will wait for my delivery before start watching, great combo.
Thumbs up before video since no doubts will be good 👍🏻
Sounds good!
Great videos! My father was in appliance repair and he had those hose clamps for washing machine pump swap outs. I believe they were Lisle brand. That was 45 years ago. My uncle was an auto mechanic so I wonder now if dad got the idea from his brother.🤔🇨🇦
Hey Wes, when I first started watching this video and you had a box in your hands I thought "I didn't know Wes did unboxing videos". Just the computer geek in me. Another great video. :)
I don't have patience for unboxing!
You have a degree in electrical engineering ? Articulation of this repair is the most detailed and understandable for non mechanics. A very intelligent farmer from Indiana. Family well? God bless to your entire family Wes. Hope this channel expands for you.😊👍🔧📈
Something like that.
Always hated electrical, Wooosh, there it goes over my head, If it's not bare and sparking I'm lost. I did once buy a set of the plastic pipe clamps, tried them once, they are long buried in some landfill now. Don't know where you find the time between shop work, family and me time to edit and publish such good videos. Thank you and much appreciated.
I don't sleep.
We had those black nats last summer in SW MN! Feel your pain!
Thanks for the video!
It's a relatively new thing here.
@@WatchWesWork so far, they aren't too bad here.
Gnats are little fruit fly sized bugs. Black flies, deer flies and horse flies are the ones that will reach out and touch you.
Pico makes a great scope, i have 3 of them in my shop, the snap-on virus has a good scope to, its a handy tool scope and scanner in one, you can never have to many tools
Also the rocker cover gaskets are known issue's with these check under the rocker cover for shorts and chaffing
A Pico is on my wish list. Hopefully this summer I will have the funds.
hi wes good to see you again with a follow up project lets see what needs doing ...i like watching everything you do oh i do not think you talk to much i think you like to say the problems thats wrong and fix them i listen carefully to all you say and iv learnt a lot watching and listening to you my friend keep them coming..one thing wes put up some brighter lights ....
It doesn't get much brighter than this!
You solved it, Wes. Whatever possessed Ford to stuff a 7.3 diesel in a rabbit hole is beyond me.
Yeah, it makes no sense.
Nice outside of the bottle thinking!
Well, maybe. And the maybe is a stretch but you are correct in thinking that intermittent problems are almost impossible to diagnose.
"NOT Orange Juice..." oh man Wes you fuggin slay me fella. I laughed hard for a good 20 seconds. Classic!
I find your content comprehensive. I also find myself hoping that you upload more. I can't say that for the majority of content creators.
Working on it!
I agree with you about the worn wires causing problems in the right conditions. Lost count on how many times I've been driving on the freeway at night and see a semi's trailers tail and clearance lights flicking On and Off because of a rubbed through wire grounding out or going open with every bounce? Driver pulls into to fuel up and walks around to check and all is fine.
Yeah, that happens all the time. Bad ground.
This is the best mechanic channel on the site.
Easy way to access injectors is unbolt radiator support and cut the frame in front of first cab mount. I have taken out a few motors at the junkyard this way. Putting it back might be a trick, though.
Your trouble shooting game is strong! Great video and explanation of what you are doing/thinking. Looking forward to the next video!
Man I wish you were near my neck of the woods..my powerstroke could definately use your expertise
Yes back to watching my favourite youtuber, stay safe
I have heard that there has been problems with the wiring harnesses in the Valve covers. It may be a good maintenance situation just to do them? But it's not a 5 minute job. Great work.