Why Do The Worlds of Recent Games Feel Vapid?
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- Опубликовано: 21 мар 2024
- A short video essay thing about why the worlds of most recent triple a games feel sort of empty and boring even though they have plenty of assets and visual candy.
I clarified this in the video but obvously not every game is like this, some like elden ring still have pretty good worlds.
Enjoy the video 
Игры
I always had the feeling Mexico in Forza Horizon 5 was designed in this boring and flat way to accommodate the Eliminator game mode. Less things to crash onto, less elevation to flip your car over. Sounds great for the 12-year-olds who are still playing the battle royale mode. Real shame considering 1, 2, and 3 have amazing maps.
I'm with you 100% on NFS Unbound, game looks incredible. Crazy that we got it at all considering racing game "fans" hate anything that is different.
you know what i think youre actually bang on with that one, that would make so much sense considering when the game was made. does anyone actually still play eliminator though?? Also yeh in my opinion 3 had the best map of the entire series
@@remembersawcon No idea mate. I loved Horizon for a real long time but 5 disappointed me so much I didn't bother buying it after "beating" it on Game Pass. I remember everything online-related being broken at launch so I could barely get Eliminator matches going. I wouldn't be surprised if it was pretty much dead considering I don't see anyone talk about it like they used to during Horizon 4's lifespan and also because of the lack of updates for it throughout the seasons, hell, I don't think they ever mentioned the Eliminator in any of their content update streams.
Dont even see people making eliminator videos like with fh4 either so yeh its probably dead. Honestly i didnt even know they were updating fh5 eliminator, probably wasnt raking in enough money so microsoft gave up on it
I heard that's actually the reason, funny how much they ruin the map to accommodate a game mode no one plays.
it is odd, but i guess some people play it right because theyre still dumping some money into it??
on how modern game word games are bland and vapid, yes look up a interactive map for a modern open world game, its essentially a collecathon, you just do stuff and remove them from your checkbox routine and pick up collectables. Meanwhile if you look at a interactive map for morrowind, it looks like google earth, actual enviroment with names towns and landmarks like the odai river all of them named that feel like areal place with its own history and every region has its own name and style and you eventually learn to use the road signs to navigate and the boats and the bug taxis to travel. Feels like an actual place not a collectahon open map that is vapid bland empty and a chore.
on horizon, isnt it interesting that the new game has such deep character customization including having robot arms but the world feels dead and empty. So much focus on character customization and microtransactions but the world feels dead. Its like missing what is important.
mate you got it exactly on the mark there, a lot of open world games now are exactly just collectaphons because studios want to give the illusion that the game is actually full of stuff to do and pad out the run time when actually theres barely anything there. Also yeh the world of morrowind is absolutely amazing, i'd take it over skyrim any day.
Also i totally agree with your horizon point, they definitely missed the mark there. Did we really need a voices protagonist?? Probably not but they just chose to spend time on that anyway instead of actually creating an engaging game.
@@remembersawcon there is this game called syndicate racing the joke was that it has more chicks in it than cars, not true, but the character customization in horizon is surreal, why? its a racing game, you almost never see your character. In the case of horizon, it has plenty of car customization but in the future we gonna see a game that has more character customization than car customization...and that customization is gonna be microtransactions.
again i agree, something like that probably will happen. i just hope people arent stupid enough to buy a game like that
@@remembersawcon zoomers seem to tune out from AAA modern games and play retro games.
"complatency" is sending me
what can i say i like using big words
@@remembersawcon Com play sen see
Another issue I see is a lack of patience in consumers (especially when it comes to Nintendo franchises), I've seen many people complain about wanting a remake or sequel to a game like they're going to lose their mind if it doesn't get announced or released right that minute, like be patient, so what if it's taking longer than usual, let them announce it and release it when they're ready to instead of forcing them to do it right now
very true, and yeh i definitely see it more with nintendo games. funnily enough the people who do that stuff most are the biggest fans of those games and i guess just dont take into account that rushing studios will just lead to games that fall below expectations.
No? It's been over twenty years and Super Mario 64 hasn't gotten a proper remake that isn't on a shitty handheld lol this argument is dumb and just blatantly untrue
not going to argue with your take but i dont think sm64 was the best example to use, i see people constantly complaining about how it hasnt gotten a proper remake
@@remembersawcon Yes that's kind of the point it's been almost 20 years and there's many games like it that are just as old without a remake or even a rerelease that isn't completely butchered on a crappy subscription service
i dont see how what youre saying is relevant to this if im being honest. The first comment was about consumers pressuring studios to make sequels/remakes. I think what youre trying to say is that with sm64 nintendo didnt cave in and make a remake like the consumers asked but, thats not what the original comment was about in the first place. Just because nintendo didnt remake sm64 doesnt mean that theres a lack of patience when it comes to nintendo franchises and they have been pressured to remake it by consumers so regardless of whether they actually did it or not the original point still stands
"Open world games have become dull! What happened to the modern game industry?"
Flight Simulator enjoyers since 1982: Yeah, about that...
Came for the vapid, stayed for the paint. :3
i refuse to believe anyone actually liked that segment
postal dude pfp nice
thank you man, postal is a gem
I must say, you’ve done a fine job explaining the dreary drought that is open world games. Whether if it is the setting/atmosphere that’s in play, and/or the accessibility of what the player can or can’t do to the open world is a major factor into making an enjoyable experience. Hell, even the massively used meme of “when you’re in an open world game but 90% of buildings are inaccessible” is practically precise on what we’re experiencing.
PS, major props for using the Postal Dude as your profile pic. It’s actually perfect, since I remembered dumping a couple hundred hours in the game throughout the last fourteen years. Kind of crazy that a game like Postal 2 has a more impactful open world experience to me over games as of late.
Thank you dude I appreciate it. Also yeh honestly im kind of annoyed at myself rn for not bringing up Postal 2 in the video because there are so many cool details and secrets in that world its insane
brother spent 20 minutes and never once addressed VISUAL CLARITY, the king of making games look good regardless of how realistic the style is
The thing is Forza Horizon was sim-cade made for car enthusiast. The first 3 games have amazing maps and vibes in my opinion. The fifth game has this bland / flat map made for battle royale and stupid "colorful corporate" aesthetic if that makes any sense.
it does make sense i get what youre saying. Yeh it definitely sucks that they series has deteriorated over time, hopefully FH6 does better.
Despite you using Ubisoft's games as backdrops for the video, I actually think as of recent they've started to make a U-Turn (Ignore their quadruple A masterpiece). Their most recent titles AC Mirage, Avatar, Crew Motorfest are some of the most vibrant, atmospheric and lived in worlds to come out as of recent though the actual gameplay of each comes down to personal preference. The Round City of Baghdad captures the dense arabian setting of the abassid period really well and brings it back to how it felt in the earlier games, Honolulu's vibrancy and vibe is a treat in Motorfest and brings much needed colour back into the world of racing games with a decent amount of traffic with npc drivers racing every now and then, Avatar I have not played but from watching gameplay alone, it's probably their most detailed world to date. Mind you this is all from the Betas & Trials I've played so I've not given a dime but things do seem to be changing for the better.
It's the work culture. The enviro guys who have to build these worlds just have to fulfil the design document as it is on paper. As long as whatever they come up with merely satisfies the description of the task given, they can go home with a shred of sanity left. In my opinion, the concept artists, creative leads and even the writers need to get in more deeply on enviro. Game worlds need people who are really into the vibe that the game is giving off. And the size of a game is not determined by how many square kilometers the map is or how many collectibles are in it. A big game has more meaningful encounters. And you can't just give that to the enviro guys and say, "good luck."
Yeah. I genuinely can't remember the last big AAA open world game I found interesting. I still play Morrowind and New Vegas often, but all the new stuff is boring.
oh man new vegas' world is so good its insane, no clue how they made that game in such a short amount of time
A small feedback from the beginning. Vapid definition was nice. It was also about the quarter of the length of the segment, where the rest was you talking about talking about vapid. That was less nice.
To me, the vapidness comes from the fact, that these "worlds" are just backdrops that you walk in.
im slow you might need to explain yourself better, do you mean that the weird ms pain explanation thing needed to be longer/more in depth?? Also sure I can see that but the backdrop still shouldnt be vapid in my opinion
@@remembersawcon
The fact that you've defined the word Vapid was great ( I was about to google it). The mspaint visuals were funny. No issue there.
But you don't need to announce it as much ("ill now explain, this will be the english lesson, bear with me" etc). The announcements were longer than the explanation.
The segment from 1:03 to 1:45 could be cut entirely (or greatly reduced, say just 1:03 to 1:15, skip to 1:45).
then 2:04 to 2:14 is somewhat pointless again.
Your actual explanation takes 19 seconds, but your "beating around the bush" sections combine to 52 seconds.
This ratio was too much.
About the backdrop: my point was rather that it shouldn't be a backdrop, but it is. The beautiful, lush forests have no purpose. It's not like traveling through them is slower, the visibility is reduced, the bears can attack you, etc. It's just a backdrop. In some games, it at least builds the character of the world, but that's about it. The world is, ultimately, meaningless and you could play the same game on a gray plane. Changing the gray plane into a wheat field changes nothing. No matter how nice that field is, it's pointless.
ahhh okay i see, thanks for the advice I'll try to reduce all the beating around the bush.
Also I disagree with your last point, the setting of a game does have a purpose. The entire point of a game in the first place is to entertain and realistically no matter how good a game is if its set in a grey plane with nothing on it nobody will be entertained and nobody would play the game. Although sure, a game world by definition is a backdrop but that doesnt make it any less important. Worlds/settings do have a purpose, the entertain and immerse and without them a game simply couldnt function.
@@remembersawconI feel like a lasting issue is that these environments dont have any defining feature that ties into gameplay that gives them any level of interactivity with the player. If the player walks into a forrest, firstly there should be a reason *why* they would walk into there beyond just "I need to get from A to B". Secondly the environment has to have some defining characteristic that sets it appart from others, i.e snowey area is harder to see in, harder to move through, disables sprint or something to that effect.
The forrest then, should have a particular resource in it, or it should have a particular enemy type or exclusive boss or item. Generally speaking modern games dont even attempt to differentiate between environments beyond surface level interactions with the player.
In other words, its not enough to have just one or a few interactions with the player. For them to feel truly immersed the environment itself has to represent potential and possibility for the player. If I walk into that forrest I should think, "huh I wonder if I can use this tree, hide in the bushes, catch this animal, pick up this rock, push this boulder, start a forrest fire"
What im trying to say is that most games dont have detailed physics engines. And whether we want to admit it or not some of the best open world games to ever release feature physics engines, think of zelda, gta, fallout, skyrim the list goes on. They all have one thing in common which is the dynamism brought on by a physics engine. Why do we hate skull & bones? Because it doesnt let me crash my ship, I cant walk into the water and let it carry me, I cant explore and island or interact with anything. Waves dont matter, wind doesnt matter, storms dont matter.etc the game has no weight to it litteraly and metaphorically.
Its amazing to me how with all its technical achievement and prowess, the gaming industry has not innovated on these dynamics an inch since the early 2010s. We are still beefing up graphics and neglecting more important aspects of gameplay like a physics engine. Helldivers 2 is a prime example, can you imagine it without its goofy broken physics? Can you imagine grand theft auto without its? The reality is, a physics engine gives the player and his tools meaning and potential and it unlocks the players creativity which gives them freedom and makes the world feel full of possibility.
because GTA V couldn't get the right to use the porsche name i think
They should’ve sent Michael and T to do a little convincing
It is much better a small neighborhood like bully scholarship, rather than No Man's Sky "Wide as an ocean deep as a puddle"
100% agreed, no mans sky is alright but al the planets can definitely feel kind of the same
I approve the music choice 👍
Though the Persona games aren't the first game that comes to mind when thinking of open-worlds, I think that they are very good examples of a compressed open-world. The lack of filler with the phenominal soundtracks make the world feel more alive and more imporantly doesn't make going to repeat areas feel so bland as it does in something like Far Cry 5.
Thank you, I usually just pick the ost of whichever games I'm playing at the time to use in videos ngl-
And yeh I agree 100% although i definitely thing i could have explained my reasoning for comparing to a persona game a lot better. Also dont even get me started on FC5's world its so generic
@@remembersawcon I think the biggest problem with FC5's world is just how the game works. Sure the main story quests are decent fun, but once it makes you do side quests it just becomes liberating outposts. After the 3rd outpost they all start to feel the same.
The actual world does feel like you just got dropped in Montana somewhere, down to the songs on the car radios. It's just what they put in the world that makes it interesting.
bruh this is the exact word i think of when i play one of these open WORLD triple A game slop
hell yeh boring doesnt do it justice, vapid is the perfect description
i agree with you. FH5 compared to FH4 or FH3 feels so lifeless. like there is barely any Ai traffic and the map is so big you don't come across players at all. while FH4 has alot of traffic in the city and the highway and also feels populated everywhere. and you also come across players all the time. and FH3 you can literally see cars all over the place. while FH5 has no apnosphere at all and kind of feels like your the only one playing. so i can agree with you on new games feeling vapid.
yehhh thats the other thing with fh5 its not just the world that got worse its the servers too. Now theyre designed to only load in a few players around you unlike FH3/4 which just sucks
At least rebirths world feels rewarding to explore, I wish all games were like that.
if only, unfortunately i doubt we're ever gonna get to that point
Trash 😂 world
???
Yeah, no. It's annoying. You get a location that pushes the story forward then you get an open zone with Ubisoft style tasks to do - towers, monster intel, lifesprings, combat assignments, etc. It's the same stuff to do in each freaking zone. Linear story portion, zone with the same checkmarks, linear story, zone with the same checkmarks, linear story, open zone with the same checkmarks and so on and on and on... If you consider that good game design you have low standards. It's repetitive as sh*t.
only 274 subs, damn ur underratted
thank you man, just gotta start posting more and then hopefully youtube will start pushing the channel-
This is exactly why Cyberpunk 2077 ruined it for me. The performance was so bad due because of all the NPC. One day I looked out and saw cars coming and i waited but they never arrived. As the cars got closer they vanished to save framerate.
man cyberpunk would be such a good game if it wasnt for all the bugs. its better now but still pretty messed up in comparison to an actually polished game
@@remembersawcon the opposite can be said about GTA V, there is sometimes too much do to that just end up repeating the story.
@@BGRUBBIN now that im not sure i agree with, the story and side content are pretty segregates and you cant really muddle anything up. but if if you mean some of the missions can feel similar then yeh i can sort of see that
Cyberpunk has a lot of technical issues that prevent me from giving it a 10/10 but the gameplay is a lot more fun since the 2.0 update. Personally I think your enjoyment will come down to how much you enjoy the playstyle of your build, and of course if your PC can handle it. Even with a capable PC I still experienced some stutters every now and then.
Agreed, its a brilliant game cursed with a pretty shitty development. Cant imagine how last gen console players feel playing that game, must be rough.
3:16 I really don’t want to be that person but when one minute of your intro hypes up about “introducing” what vapid means, then you just goggle it and read it from there without adding to it- _then_ you go on to say “complatency” instead of what I assume you mean is complacency- well either it was a set up to a joke that I sadly didn’t notice or you legitimately said complacency falsley as “complatency.” If I were an english major, i’d be deeply offended.
But i’m not, so carry on~
what can i say im the king of disappointments. also no i totally just said it wrong, tends to happen a lot when im recording. still not fully used to speaking into a mic
I will argue that Horizon 5 got fucked a bit by being a console release title meant to show off the "pOwEr oF tHe nExT gEnErAtiOn xBox" and that _some_ of it's features and physics tweaks are welcome upgrades from Horizon 4 (looking at you AWD swap supremacy). Horizon 4 feels leagues better than FH5 though, no question.
yeh i can agree with that, also wait AWD swaps actually have downsides in FH5 now? cant believe microsoft cared that much wow
I agree with you . The most important issue is that it’s been 10 years since we saw the latest technology invented by rockstar games . After GTA 6 LAUNCHES THE INDUSTRY AND GAME MAKING TECHNOLOGY, TECHNIQUES WILL CHANGE FOR SURE WHICH WILL LEAD TO BETTER IMMERSIVE-WORLDS
See I agree that a lot of stuff will change because Rockstars tech is also revolutionary but its not like stuff hasnt already been changing, im sure that Rockstar has adopted techniques/tech that other companies have used these past 10 years so I wouldnt say its solely them inventing the technology/pushing open world games forward
Yes you may have a point there . But looking at their history of managing to invent new stuff , I hardly doubt they need any other tech in the world to make their game . I mean they do everything in house and from what I have observed.. when a newer GTA drops , everyone including Ubisoft start to copy what they have introduced .. may it be the game mechanics or animations. Even in some cases other companies have copied the tasks and challenges like rockstar .
I think the game industry is facing stagnancy because right now all we see is Ubisoft or some other companies dropping their games after every six months or a year . Their marketing strategies make it worse. Make an average game , release it make profits before people realise it’s not worth and then repeat the cycle . No doubt some games are really good but the percentage is quite less .
out of curiosity what new stuff did they invent?? frankly idk enough about how GTAV was developed so I'm not sure I can really argue with you too much here. To be fair I will say that the graphics/physics of gta games has always been years ahead of the competition.
People said the same thing about RDR2 and you know how devs responded? By whining on Twitter saying their job is hard and it is unfair for "entitled gamers" to expect their games to be as good. I get that being a dev is not an easy job, but they can't use it as justification for people to not have high expectations when they're charging AAA prices.
cant argue with any of that, does have me a little worried because (if i remember correctly) the RDR2 devs are working on GTA 6 but it'll probably be fine
Who the fuck says vapid
me
Persona isn't particularly impressive from a technical perspective when it comes to its world or graphics. Rather, it is the story, writing, character design, stylisation and music as well as the social sim/dungeon crawling game design that makes it so great. I think P5R does some things better like being able to use the trains to fast travel, but P3R is shaping up to be my favorite in terms of characters, music and setting.
but wouldnt the stylisation also be considered part of the world/setting of the game?? I cant argue that it isnt necessarily anything technically impressive but a game doesnt need to be technically impressive to have a good world in my opinion. But yeh for sure I agree that the world isnt the most impressive part of a persona game, just used it as an example because its a recent game with (in my opinion) a pretty lively setting. Also P5R definitely has some cool features that P3R is missing but hey its based on an older game so its excusable ig. Have you tried P4 out of curiosity??
@@remembersawcon Yes, I agree that the stylisation is part of the world and setting. I think what I wanted to say is that the setting and the cast as well as the gameplay is what draws people to the game rather than the world itself, though the worlds of the modern Persona trilogy are all designed in a way that is believable and immersive despite its limitations/shortcomings.
Also yes, I have played P4G and love the story, music and cast. I actually enjoyed the gameplay and think that it is fun in its own way but I can't deny that it is a weak point compared to the others.
Oh yeh in that case i definitely agree with you, most people are definitely drawn in by other factors. Personally though it was the setting that drew me in but i feel like thats probably not too common.
Also yeh I played the original P4 on PS2 and its definitely the weakest modern persona game. Great character's but everything else is kinda bad. Especially the dungeons, theyre so boring. Though that could just be because i didnt play the never version but still.
@@remembersawcon I think most people are drawn in by the characters and social sim aspect of the game, but the world is also interesting, if a bit confusing for newcomers. I agree that P4's dungeon crawling does get repetitive but Golden has a lot of QoL improvements and I definitely recommend it if you're ever looking to play through the game again.
i'll probably buy it after p3r, though i do feel like some of the charm will be lost because ive already played it before but hey its still worth another shot
Games have gotten to big for thier britches. Throw in shareholder pressure and a unfinished product that companies are convinced people will still buy. Things will have to hit rock bottom for these guys before anything changes.
agreed, which is probably why indie games are becoming more and more popular, they can still exceed expectations whilst most triple a's just cant. Also, we're not at rock bottom yet but tbf a lot more people have developed a hatred towards big studious so we might get there soon
P3R OST ❤
Guys in suits that have maybe played Nintendo once running game studios ruin games.
Developers are usually passionate and dedicated gamers and artists, who want to create something amazing.
Fuck EA/UBISOFT/TAke 2/Activision corporate.
Sub 248!!!
ayyy nice man
Wait, do you own all the games you showed footage of? Because it sounds an awful lot like you have every recent Ubisoft title and then made a video complaining about how their worlds aren't as good as *checks notes* Persona? An open world so small it might as well be linear? My brother in christ you are the problem, stop giving them money to make these games and work on your comparisons a bit.
Also most people know what vapid means, that didn't need a 5 minute segment.
nah i dont own them theyre on game pass (which I also dont pay for) so I'm not funding Ubisoft dont worry. Also yeh their worlds arent as good as personas. Why is it a bad thing that an open world is small? I dont think the size of an open world relates to how good it is, I'd much rather play in a small world with plenty of detail rather than a large barren one. I can understand that maybe a Persona game wasnt the best example but it's still a valid comparison.
Also yes I know but I wanted to do something different for a segment.
*if I Ever worked for UbiSoft, it would have to be as Head Of Ideas 😂 im not working on none of this trash y'all wanna produce 👎 Rainbow Six, Far Cry, The Division, modern day Assassins Creed and Prince of Persia/Beyond Good & Evil collab is all were focusing on* 🙌
valid, id take some top tier r6 updates over skull and bones any day
A brit asking people to "spice things up", that's rich coming from the country that controlled the spice trade but has the most vapid food in the world. Sorry i couldn't help myself. 😅
nah mate thats valid Britain is a shithole, only my nationality is British though i didnt grow up here and my parents arent from the UK either
though i will say id take brittish fish and chips shit over a hot dog any day
The british empire is dead but lives rent free in some people’s head