@@azuarc I mean, Death Rally does feature a character called "Tom the Rhymer", a reference to an Historic/Mythological individual. The idea of "Tom the Poet" in the Remedy-verse is based on him. Also, in Alan Wake 2, there is a breakroom with an Arcade Box of Death Rally (not playable, unfortunately). So, Death Rally is definitely part of the Remedy-verse ;)
@@azuarca tip that might save some frustration down the line: Alan Wake is not absolutely necessary to play before Alan Wake 2 (heresy, I know, but even the people who love it find it frustrating to play) but you do need some level of understanding of the story. Watch a walk through or even just do a wiki trawl (how I did it having also only played Control before I played Alan Wake 2. I had a lovely time even with just that but also did extensive research afterwards up to and including finding a RUclips channel dedicated to breaking down the Remedy ‘verse).
I like the detail in Helldivers 2 (of all games) where after Basic Training there is a few monolithic plaques that you can read that have the contract for being a Helldiver on it. Reading said contract is against the contract, and not reading it is automatic acceptance lol.
Helldivers has some amazing little details that make the game so funny. The superstore reviews will sometimes have a 1 star review that was redacted and being investigated for treason, Earth is the literal center of the universe on the map, and the ship broadcasts give so many great details about civilian life.
Most people I've seen who didn't like control rushed through the game without interacting with any of the notes, videos and audio logs in the game, remedy's magic has always been in the details.
I'm usually tired of the old text logs and notes in games, but I've read every piece of paper and watched every tape I've come across in Control because its world was just so weird and fascinating. It's basically SCP lore hidden in a badass superhero shooter. Show me another game where the most terrifying enemy is an old fridge.
@@matman000000 that's exactly my experience. In most games i really don't put effort in reading any collectible, but with control i was almost compelled to read every single report, every single transcription and watch every single tape. I really love that game and wish i had the patience to play alan wake (the controls just leave me kinda icky, didn't play the secon one though)
It's so weird that anyone would rush through control. The game is so intricately crafted and delicately told that nothing would make sense without looking into the details
I loved those aspects of Control, but what I didn’t like was that despite all of the resonant weirdness of the plot and the stunning environments, so much of the gameplay boiled down to just another shooter. I generally dislike shooters and hate boss battles, so that was really frustrating and offputting for me. Smashing up the environment was a nice twist on that, but the combat scenes were mostly just an annoyance. If it had been more of an immersive sim, with options to work around combat, I would have enjoyed it a lot more, and I think that would have been more tonally congruent with the eeriness and complex storytelling.
The combat got really samey for me so I realized it was making me rush through things so I can get the game "done with". I switched to one-kill option and just read every collectible and yeah, they were top notch, it was some good X-files soup. I would not however call it good in design overall, they may be the best notes in a game but as Yahtzee often points out, anything that stops you from playing the game is not good game design. Should have been pure audiotapes.
To answer the question why make something like that if most of the players wont notice: as a creative writer I can tell you: it's fun! It's so much fun to create something this complex and consistent, even spanning more than one title. And if just one player finds the hints, connects the dots, does the work and follows the breadcrumbs it's just satisfying xD On another note I wanted to honorably mention Half Life here, which achieved a similar mystery in gaming history.
I'm an artist currently working on creating character designs for a portfolio. But I didn't wanna just make random, cool-looking characters without any context. So I spent a lot of time researching and thinking about and putting together a plausible world for the characters to exist in. A proper story. The audience (employers mainly lol) won't see all these background details that I paintsakingly thought about and crafted, they will just see the final product. But I think that giving all these things thought and consideration absolutely SHOWS in the final product. Things won't feel one-dimensional.
100% agree as a published writer myself. There's the story, then there's references and connections that specific people might figure out or understand. If you notice that's wonderful but it also doesn't kill your appreciation of the story. But when someone really gets into knowing aspects it's so much fun!
In a class I took that taught writing for video games, our professor (who had actually worked on published games such as Left For Dead), said that ideally a game's story should be able to work on three levels: skimming, dipping, and diving. You're going to have players who just take in the surface-level story (skimmers), some who look just a bit further to find more detail (dippers), and those who do full dives into the lore and details of a story (divers). He said that if a game is crafted in such a way that any of these types of players can come away feeling satisfied and not confused, it's well crafted. Years later, I still can't help but agree. (And also it's fun!)
I was actually wondering if you'd mention The Janitor, who seems to appear everywhere in each of the Remedy games. A normally unassuming member of society, there to clean up places after everyone else has gone home for the day. The person that all too many pass by without a second glance, never knowing their name or showing appreciation. And yet this Janitor knows a lot more than he's letting on... possibly everything about the world and how it works, maybe even an orchestrator of events. However, it is quite certain the world would fall apart without him...
I’m pretty sure Ahti is a deity, god of the sea/water perhaps in Finnish folklore. It’s a big rabbit hole I’d recommend having a look. It explains why he moves so freely throughout different planes of existence and knows so much about everything.
What struck me playing Control was how well the developers understand the medium of digital games they're working in. The broad rule of thumb is to keep the environment around the player stable. Avoid texture glitches or objects loading in. But Control happily unloads and reloads environments around you. The portraits of Hesse as the director change after she takes up the gun. Walls appear behind you, you often question the layout of the floors because video games aren’t constrained to physical reality. An object only has physics or is solid because the program is told to treat it as such. This allows Remedy to really lean heavily into the space bending otherworldly nature of the world in those games.
In theory, but in practice the fact that it's so scripted takes away from the magic. They could have made the game about the shifting Old House but instead it's a linear action shooter. It's a great game, 9/10, but it's not 10/10.
It's funny that because of this element, I actually thought a glitch I got near the end of control was intentional. (it wasn't and was actually a bug.)
The details about Old Gods of Asgard really blew my mind. I found that song on iTunes last year, and had no idea the band is fictional or that it was tied to the Remedy-verse. Amazing!
I've been a fan of Poets of the Fall for years and years. After listening to them a lot on Spotify, the algorithm served me up "Children of the Elder God," which is an Old Gods of Asgard song. I thought, "that's cool, they sound like Poets as a metal band," and went on with life. A year or so later, I played Alan Wake 1, and there's a part where a radio broadcast is playing in the background and they put on a Poets song, comparing them to Old Gods. Turns out Sam Lake is friends with Poets of the Fall. It was awesome.
I love stories that feel like like the author has binders and binders of backstory and worldbuilding, but only put in what was necessary. Loose ends keep the world from being a bubble, but only if you have confidence that there is an explanation that you're not being given.
Great essay! So, Oceanview Motel in Control. During a point where it's nighttime outside, I was able to get a small glimpse of the outside through a window. It was a desert landscape, barren except the one thing you can barely make out: the Oceanview Motel sign from Alan Wake's American Nightmare, a story written by Wake as an escape attempt.
Oh fascinating - I hadn’t considered that angle (largely cause I never played American Nightmare) I’ll have to keep my eyes out if I play through Control again
From the A.W.E. DLC in Control it seems like the entire events of Control were 'written' by Wake in an attempt to escape - and certainly the Hiss share a few similarities to the Dark Presence...
I think about this comment often and it always makes me chuckle. Its silly, but it always makes me happy! Also the first time I saw this comment I laughed for like 2 minutes
The best ad for remedy and the talent of Sam Lake. I played my first remedy game, Max Payne, about a year ago. The congruity of small details, the atmosphere, 3rd wall breaking, and style just captivated me but I never played anything else from them. Time to change that
Short Message's library is particularly egregious because it's a *Silent Hill* game, a series whose original entries were overflowing with so much world building minutia that people are still pouring over them today. Silent Hill 3 even had a fully realized bookstore
I feel like it's intentional, and that a library filled with only the same books is intentionally unsettling. Like how your brain doesn't actually populate a library in a dream with real books. It just shows something that implies more. Here they are drawing your attention to the uncanny nature of the world by making you look for one special book in a library full of blah blah blah. Additionally actually hiding a book in a fully stocked library wouldn't be fun. Players would waste time actually checking every shelf.
In defense of the developers of The Short Message, the library in The Short Message isn't a real library. It's a mental projection of a library from the protagonist's psyche. The repetition of those few books in particular might be because those are the books that she's most familiar with because they might be the required textbooks for her high school classes, or they are books that she has personally checked out from the library to read on her own time. It could be interesting to do some research into whether those books in The Short Message are real books, and if so, what are they about? Perhaps they have some thematic relevance or provide some context about the game's narrative (in addition to the super-obvious themes and context that the game explicitly spells out and hits the player over the head with). The library in SH3, on the other hand, is a real place (albeit a place that is transformed from its natural state) that exists independently of the protagonist's mind, and so is populated with real books.
i respect that reasoning but to me it feels more like an excuse to be able to design the library in that way. It can be the same explanation with the sticky notes and i would still feel like it missed an opportunity to do something more interesting than that idk tho @@MegaBearsFan
@@AnaCarolinaCosta I agree. Regardless of the intention, it still LOOKS lazy. I think a better way to convey that dream-like quality would be to make all of the titles gibberish. Like those early AI images- They look like words but are unreadable. The other books blur together, and the one you need stands out. It even makes it easier to overlook any copy-pasting because it's already clear what they were going for.
I also want to share OP's sentiment about SH3. Every location in that game feels real, but just a little off, as it should. Early on, you can go into what is basically a Burger King (the legally-distinct "Happy Burger") And every detail, from the shape of the booths and the counter, to the colors on the menu are spot-on. This is an optional location that you can pass right by. There's no lore, no secret weapons, or a joke ending, just a couple of minor healing items. I didn't know it was there my first few playthroughs, but they put in the effort. That's the second time in a week that I've been reminded that I need to play that game again, but now I need to play Control and the Alan Wake games. I'm so conflicted.
The creatives at Remedy did the work. The country had nothing to do with it, you had nothing to do with it. All this "Suomi mainittu" stuff is super cringe.
If you've got the time, I highly recommend Prey (2017). I finished it recently and I can't remember the last time I played a game with so much attention and care put into every little environmental detail, it was incredible.
It was great and after that Arkane fell off. They copy paste the same game and slap a different name on it everytime. The only time they did something different was that vampire online game which got abysmal ratings 🥲
@@faroazandeen589 you can't be serious. The Dishonored series (only 3 games) are amazing games, with incredible and adaptable gameplay which allows for some of the most varried experiences in video games... The art, story and attention to detail are some of the best in all of video games history. Each game is unique, you play a different character everytime with different abilities... In the second opus you can even mix up the characters' abilities as you wish. Those games were considered the best of the immervive sim genre and all around very good games. Just say you didn't play them and move on...
It's videos like these that make me so happy I found your channel. I love your videos that take a more "research" oriented approach with referenced experiments and studies, but this format has it's own benefits. I could feel the passion you have towards games that leave you wondering. Keep up the good work!
I haven't played these games, but I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the extreme Twin Peaks vibes they give off. There are even what seem to be nods towards it (the red curtains, small town feel, the light lady essentially being this story's Log Lady). Would also like to mention the Address Unknown series in Max Payne, which mirrors what Max is going through. Love that Remedy included that detail.
There are several RUclips docs that specifically explain every single Twin peak reference in alan wake. It's well known and has been discussed for years, hust search it up.
I think it was pretty obvious in Alan Wake 1. Have you played Deadly Premonition? It's even more blatant lol. Weird and flawed game but it smells like passion.
Sam lake the creator of Alan Wake throughout all of this has talked very clearly that David Lynch is a huge inspiration for Alan Wake. Especially during the first games development and marketing. They even modeled it after the same town that Twin Peaks did in the first game coming to the Pacific Northwest for several weeks and coming back with hundreds of pictures. So yes you are completely correct.
To be fair, Twin Peaks is a bit niche even today (it's Lynch), so the majority of audiences probably would miss the references. They did, of course, understand the references to Stephen King in the first game, largely because the game was a bit obvious with them (the Wikipedia page has an image of the Shining door reference, it's not exactly subtle).
I was so drawn in by Alan Wake 2, it's one of my favorite games of all time. When I was playing it, I wrote a ton of the graffiti messages on my white board outside of my bedroom. I used the little details that drew me into the game to keep me connected with it while I wasn't playing.
I love it when someone has call backs or... call forwards?... to their other works. Back when my life was nothing but L4D2 mods, I found a map that had some very random easter eggs in it. Without knowing it, each one was either explaining something weird in a past mod or teasing a future one, and they continued to do this until the last mod they made. The mod itself yet again referencing stuff, but the whole thing was clearly signalling that the mod author was done. Every bit of graffiti, every message, the map itself ending in after a nuke went off and your health is draining from nuclear fallout and you don't even get rescued. Except there was a graffiti art that never got used, that you could find if you decompliled the file the mod was in and it was random art of a character. Even in the last mod they made, they were still leaving cryptid hints to the future. I always found it so damn cool.
Watching the Creative director say out loud that there is a lot of fun to be had looking back and finding interesting ways of connecting the details to fit the new story and world and plot makes me want to show this to the team that does Zelda at Nintendo HQ. Instead of saying the timeline "restricts them" they should have fun! Connecting old details that at the time meant nothing to new thing!! Like the fans do ALL THE TIME. Nintendo sometimes feel like a bunch of Aliens doing good games by chance and not understanding why people liked them.......
explore the decor of the Oceanview where the doors only open for a chosen few check your logic at the desk, you won't need it to progress a dream is just a test to be broken through - Into the Void, Stupendium
not usually prone to quoting but this song drew me to Control & your video is likely to draw me to Alan Wake 2, in spite of not being into fps fighty games. Love some good lore, esp environmentally rich lore
I think your original title referencing the devils in the details makes more sense. As this video is less about horror, and more about that over-abundance of detail that seems so well thought out but still just beyond our understanding. Either way, its a great video and another example of how you're one of the more interesting video-game essayists out there. Cheers!
15:57 This can easely be explained by the fact that Alan Wake stayed in expensive hotels (as a succesfull writer) and Jesse stayed in cheap Motels searching for the oldest house. So they are the same, but different people experience it as different motels/hotels. I bit like the town of SIlent Hill
One of the things I liked about the Oceanview Motel when I was playing through Control, there's a segment that goes through the Motel again, and if you hang out in the lobby for a little bit, you can hear the muffled sound of a minivan family on vacation trying to figure out if the motel is open or not at the front door
I love when one of your videos come out. I put you, Adam Millard, Razbuten, and Monty Zander all in the same high tier category for video game essayists. I drop everything and watch when your videos come out. Thanks for all the great content.
23:25 This actually reminded me of something Toby Fox seems to be setting up in Undertale and Deltarune. In Snowdin Sans gives you a word search that features a character named "Icee" and this character is seemingly never brought up again. In Deltarune however there is now an Icee Pizzeria where the Deltarune version of Burgerpants works. Icee also appears in Chapter 2's Cyber World briefly when you solve a puzzle to get a blue check mark. The puzzle directly calls back to the word search because the solution is one of the answers in the word search. (The answer is literally just the entire top row of the word search lol). Finally a few months ago a Spamton Sweepstakes Event was held where we got a truckload of new lore about Spamton, Kris, and Noelle and in one hidden story you can learn about how Kris, Noelle, Asriel, and Dess buried a burnt Icee's Pizza Box in the graveyard. (You just can't make this stuff up) Now the community is theorizing that we may get a restaurant themed Icee Dark World at some point or we may get a Graveyard Dark World where the buried pizza box may become a secret boss or something. By the way if anyone reading this is a fan of Deltarune and hasn't checked out the Spamton Sweepstakes I highly recommend taking a look at it. You can find it at the bottom of the Deltarune site under News and Updates. My advice is literally click on everything, every link is a secret.
Toby Fox lore always gives me the impression that it’s barely held together with duct tape and bubblegum and that if you look to closely the entire thing will fall apart from plot holes, yet no matter how closely I look I can’t find anything that makes it crack. I keep thinking “It feels like there’s an oversight here, but I don’t actually know what it is.” The lore really should be making me angry from the confusion but it doesn’t, in the words of Todd Howard: “It just works!” I don’t know if this is the same feeling Daryl was describing in the video, I’m not familiar with Remedy’s games.
Honestly Alan wake in terms of plot and writing is just weirdly similar to deltarune I mean both games have a dark presence that turns non livings things into reality (in alan wake it's fiction in deltarune it's inanimate objects) and are based concentrated primarily in one place (the dark place in alan wake and the dark worlds in deltarune) and both of these are used as vehicles to explore the relationship between the person viewing the art and the art itself.
To be a bit of a mega nerd for a moment, and also add another strange layer to the Ice-E puzzle; none of the gibberish words match Exactly. They're all one letter off. The word search asks you to find "giasfclfebrehber" which is what the other two are one letter off from matching. The top row of the word search changes the "feb" to "fub" while the Deltarune puzzle changes "fcl" to "fel" instead. When it was just the two in the word search, I chalked it up to Sans pranking you and making the puzzle technically impossible to pass if you were to sit down and try it. Now that it's in Deltarune... Well, unless it somehow shows up as having story significance, I'm going to chalk it up as Toby having a little fun with those of us who noticed such a small detail; as much as it drives me a little insane.
I can't wait for Deltarune to be finished. Might not be for another few years, but hey, I got time. Will be very interesting to see the full picture of what exactly Toby Fox has in store for us this time around.
Xenoblade did something similar about the retconning of the first one to make it connect to the second one. One very small change in Definitive Edition was enough to confirm a popular theory people had even before Definitive Edition came out, since 2 was released before it
Not only are all the subway signs in AW2 relevant, they are all quotes from AW1. If you've played AW1 a few times (or one REALLY perceptive time), the moment of recognition in AW2 is eerie
Actually, having played AW1 in a moderately perceptive manner, the feeling I got when reading those started out as a vague recognition, like something from a dream. Then it slowly came to me, and made the realisation all the more powerful.
Absolutely amazing video as usual! Having someone as talented as yourself put my feeling towards these games into words is just fantastic. They are most certainly cut from a different cloth and Remedy truly oozes atmosphere and passion for what they do. Thankful you are out here showing games the love they deserve, Daryl!
I was actually just saying this to my partner this weekend. When you look at Rose’s desk in the Night Springs DLC, for example, nothing seems like filler, nothing is generic, even her scotch tape has its own cubby hole. They treat set design the way you might for a film instead of a game, where there’s intentionality in everything
Holy shit, dude... As someone who just recently went through the journey of Alan Wake, Control, and of course, AW2... I feel this video encapsulates so many of the thoughts I didn't even know I was having about these games. Well done, man, my god...
This is such a well done video!! As a big Remedy fan myself i truly couldn't put into words why i love these games better than you did here!! Life itself in a way feels much bigger than we can ever truly grasp and no matter how bizarre the events of these games are it very much gives you that feeling and that makes them feel so real. All of these little details they put into the games, if you look around make the world around you feel real and i adore that!! Thanks for making this video, great job!!
Part of why I love The Oceanview so much is that it hands you like 8 different symbols and any of them could mean anything, it's literally a chekov's firing squad waiting to happen The Lake House literally straight up says "Oh by the way this symbol here is important" but it's done in such an esoteric way and devoid of context that I don't even know what it's actually supposed to represent even after seeing what it seemingly represents There's also another symbol there that I think the game might have foreshadowed as well depending on how you interpret it which brings up questions of what that would mean in the context of the Oceanview and I genuinely think this is why I love Remedy so much, there's no other series that would make me question something like this to this degree
i’ve been over here enjoying these art pieces and you took each of them and dissected them in the most profound and conclusive way. but like you said, “they leave just enough for us to want more..” so true.
This gave me chills and almost made me cry. Honestly, great games, and a marvelous video about them. Just goes to show how much joy this loving attention to detail can bring.
From someone who loves and has done alot of viewing and analyzing the game as well as the secondary sources such as interviews I can tell you I DEEPLY appreciate this video. I could never put into words all the things you convey in this video in such an orderly yet entertaining manner. I see what you did with the title :D.
Loved this video, Daryl! A love letter to Remedy which really grasps a large part of why I adore their storytelling. Hope you’ve had a great day and thank you for your work :)
One thing that you didn’t mention was the ng+ mode in Alan wake 2. It’s called the Final Draft and is very involved in knowledge about the world and the story unfolding. Due to various events in the first playthrough the characters have some vague idea that what’s unfolding has already happened. There are new notes, videos, story points, and a new ending. You gain a deeper understanding of what’s happening by interacting with the world more.
My god this is such a perfect explanation of what Remedy's narration and World building is at its core. You've nailed it. And that last line... Perfection 👌
Honestly, you can play Control by itself. It's so perfectly made that people didn't even connect it to Alan Wake until much later with the AWE DLC (Alan Wake Expansion)
@@NrettG nah, people (including me) found direct connections way earlier in the base game, in 2019. There are documents found, i think before the Panopticon area, that talk about Bright Falls and what happened there. There's also a manuscript page (altered item) in the Panopticon in a hidden area and when you go up to it, an overlayed vision of Alan Wake appears. This was all before the AWE DLC was even announced, and day one of the game coming out.
@@kinothemystic Huh, I never knew it was there day one. I played much later (Ultimate Edition) and just assumed that all the alan wake connections were added post announcement (with the exception of mr. door and such)
@@NrettG yep!! So as a huge Alan Wake fan since 2010, I freaked the hell out when i came across those documents. Regarding Mr. Door, *that* character is in reference to a character named Martin Hatch in Quantum Break. Pretty much an alternate version of the character since Remedy doesnt own the Quantum Break IP
Amazing video, I'd never gotten into these games but I liked the title and description of this video so I thought I'd listen anyway. I'm glad I did, as you did a terrific job of going over the intricacies of this studio weaving a story with subtext throughout their games. I now want to play these games and experience this sense of wonder found in the details myself. I always enjoy piecing together a puzzle like this, so thanks again for the great video.
I love that you picked up on the lowkey best song in Alan Wake 2 "Follow You In To the Dark" cause that was the first time I let the song just roll during my playthrough and was enraptured.
I've been a fan of Remedy for a while, and am incredibly happy to see this video. They don't make perfect games, but all of them are so very special in a way no other games ever will be. I will always play, and buy, any new game they make on day one. You don't see this kind of genius in video games very often.
That idea of music making you feel as if you’re peering into a small microcosm of the world is also used in Final Fantasy 14, at least in some cases. Some boss fights have lyrics that tell a story or are some form of the boss speaking to you, and while not always like that, the ones that do it are pretty interesting, like the song “Equilibrium”
Thanks for covering some of my favorite games in recent memory! I had played Alan Wake and then Control came along and really resonated with me. Lore littered everywhere, explaining our own real world mythology and legends, and still pulling back the curtain on the world of Control itself just enough to keep you looking for more. Will pick up Alan Wake 2 in the near future to keep going down that rabbit hole.
@@GameTalesHQ just gonna say this: When playing through Alan Wake 1, keep an eye out on anything relating to a character named Alex Casey. And i will check that video out!!
You Really do need more subscribers. Your content is of the level that deserves at least 3 million, if not more. If anything, I simply wish you had more money just so you could post more often. Because your content is insanely compelling
Nier mentioned. I repeat, Nier mentioned! Alright, on a more serious note, I had no idea these games went so far with the story. I played a bit of Control and have always been curious about Alan Wake, but I never actually properly dove into any of it. This kind of story telling and world building is my absolute favorite kind of writing and you have most certainly convinced me to play the games and study the intricacies. Thank you for bringing this to my attention
Honestly I just witnessed my favourite gaming video. You understand the sub narrative and references so deeply and being able to explain them in well written scripts and brilliant editing. OH MAN! Time for Control and AW2 replays!
People don't give enough credit to Remedy. Amazing video which dives really, really deep into the madness, well deserved. Great work, my friend. Alan Wake 2 is a masterpiece. Control is a black hole for lore fiends. I'm speechless how good these stories are.
I haven't been able to go back to Control, but that game sits in the back of my mind (and game library), and I know it's waiting to be explored. I love how you were able to highlight just how eldritch these games feel without spoiling them, and I appreciate that so much. It's oddly comforting how these narratives show you how you, as a single player, can't make sense of everything, yet rewards you for trying anyway. At some point, you know you won't get all the answers, but there's still meaning and enjoyment in piecing together what you can, and a sense of peace at the end because you understand you don't have or understand every piece: and that's OK. Hopefully, I'll be able to go back and explore the House again.
From what I could understand, the Oceanview Motel can be used as a way to isolate certain places from the rest of the world, for example, the Clock Threshold was contained because if the items continued to multiply it would eventually affect the entire world.
So I finished Control just a few weeks ago and it was one of the few games that kept me interested enough to read/listen to/watch every scrap of lore info I could find in game. And I think I found a lot but somehow it always made me feel like there is more. Like *I* am the reason I'm not getting the full picture, not the game itself. The other thing I found fascinating is that essentially you spend the entire game waiting for a jumpscare that never comes - or in my case regularly jumpscare yourself with the most normal stuff you wouldn't look twice at if the game didn't create this atmosphere of tension around you literally all the time. The ending of the story though (so uhm vague spoilers from here) I found slightly disappointing. I almost think it tried to explain too much. I remember feeling so dumbfounded after the "first credits", so utterly confused and ready to think this through and figure it out, that I almost wish it had ended there.
100%, that’s how it was for me too. It felt like most real world “unexplainable events” feel, like you have just enough info to be really unsettled by it, but it’s clear we’re all missing something. And somehow, that makes it even stranger. I agree on the end though, it was just… fine haha. I did read that Sam Lake and the crew purposefully structured the end such that nothing really changes. You can still move around the house, investigate anomalies, etc. They wanted to narratively allow you to keep playing and tying up loose ends, which was… a choice haha. Though I think it’ll set up Control 2 nicely.
24:42 That's how Andrew Hussie did it before them in Homestuck. Yes, the continuity is insane, but a lot of it was specifically made to tie to previous hooks that qere made by the seat of his pants. It was a great strategy, as illustrated by Colonel Sassacre's Daunting Text of Magical Frivolity and Practical Japery, its bodycount, and the screaming of his name
Voices of the Void perfectly fits this category, too, and in a few ironic ways given the monsters therein. Try it without spoilers and you'll get wowed- it's a free early access game!
Thanks for mostly translating and putting into words how I feel about Remedy. I played Max Payne 2 at 10 years old when it was new, and it was those little inter-connected details (the comic book panels, in-game TV shows, environmental storytelling, fake ads/brands, NPC conversations) that *literally* shaped how I view and interact with the real world. I'm not kidding, I "blame" these games for how I fundamentally see the world, as well as my philosophy on life lol. Everything is an echo or a loop of everything else, and we are just stuck somewhere in the middle trying to make sense of all of it... which we absolutely can't, but we find it engaging to try anyway.
I just finished Alan Wake 1, so this was some good timing getting me excited to finish up the bonus stuff and get to American Nightmare and AW2. You really put into words why I’m so into Remedy’s stuff, I love how detail oriented their games are, constantly stopping to read, watch, and inspect every inch just to see what’s there.
One of the most influential phrases for me as a writer and simply as a story enjoyer comes from a random quote in Persona 4. After the main characters are thrown into the magical weird TV world and meet Teddy, a resident of this world, they begin bombarding him with questions about the world. At some point, Teddy answers he doesn't know. One of the main characters gets angry at him "What do you mean you don't know? This is your world!" and Teddy answers "Well do YOU know everything about YOUR world?"
Just letting you know how much I appreciate you listing all the music used in your video. I never would have been able to find the song I was looking for otherwise.
Remedy is a prime example of what I call a "middle shelf" developer. They make solid games, with good production values and an identity of their own. They don't have to sell millions to make a profit, they don't have to be the most popular game out there, they just exist. And that is what the industry needs more of. Middle shelf, "AA" games that aren't setting out to reinvent the wheel or make ALL the money. The only problem with being a middle shelf dev is that they can easily be overlooked and sometimes their games aren't for everyone. That said I have played both Alan Wake and Control and I can't recommend them enough. I still have to play Alan Wake 2 at some point but I'm not in a rush to get my hands on it. More so because it's stuck on the friggin' Epic store for the time being.
I regret to inform you that AW2 is not one of the timed Epic exclusives that will come to Steam later; Epic has the publishing rights for Alan Wake. It's why Alan Wake Remastered remains stuck on EGS even years later (honestly though that one's fine, Remastered is completely borked on PC).
This is your best video. I've added this to my Greatest Video Essays playlist, the writing in this video was absolutely fantastic. I was hooked on every word.
Oddly enough, one of my favourite examples of this is Sonic Adventure 2. There's tons of little details that connect Gerald Robotink's research to Chaos from the first game such as the Artificial Chaos enemies, as well as the Biolizard having the same roar as Perfect Chaos.
So for the doors in Oceanview (minor spoilers for Control): There’s the black pyramid door and its opposite seems to rep the red pyramid (it’s outlined bc it’s only drawn in white chalk) - end spoiler. Then we have the spiral door. It reps darkness as per commentary in the “The Third Thing” hotline. He correlates “spiral” with “a black hole”. The opposite door, in my opinion, is a lightbulb. Why? It is similar to the symbol we see in AW1. The outer circle represents light while the inner is the bulb and socket. See the pattern? The doors on each side are opposing in conflict. The last two doors seem to be about AW2 (haven’t played yet) where the rectangles door has to do with imagery you see after beating the doctor boss.
bro, I was just talking on reddit about how scared Control makes me feel. I know its silly, there’s literally no jump scare or anything like it, but the oldest house have this feeling that creeps me tf out. Every fucking time a had to cross a bridge and not being able to see the bottom, only darkness made me imagine the shit that could be in there, there’s a boss fight that is LITERALLY A FUCKING ANCHOR, but somehow I was so scared of that image that I couldn’t play the game for a few hours. Not to mention The Former, I always had to mute the game when he speak bcs it made me scared. I knoow, 20y old ass ascared of this dumb shit, Im not proud of it lmao but it is what it is, think this would be nice to share
No, I get it. Jacob Geller brought that up in his video essay on haunted houses, and how the Oldest House is, in essence, a haunted house. There's something ominous and unknowable about it that defies proper explanation, no matter how much the bureaucracy of the FBC attempts to categorize the supernatural in mountains of paperwork. It's filled with unexplained phenomena that the people there just have come to accept and corridors that don't seem to make sense if one was trying to build a proper office space. It's both familiar and alien in a way that makes the entirety of the building uncanny. And whatever you do, don't look under the stairs.
I really want play Control all the way through because of all the positive reviews but I haven't gotten very far because, yeah, the tone of the game freaks me out. Even knowing there aren't any jump scares may not be enough to help me finish it. I had the same issue with What Remains of Edith Finch, though, and I did finally manage to get through it. So here's hoping I can finish Control some day.
Wow thank you so much for discussing this! I just finished AW2 last night. I bought it day 1 backlog has just been nuts so didn’t start until recently. I’m FLOORED by the quality of everything about the game. I truly don’t understand why the sales don’t reflect the quality of this experience. I keep hoping the utter genius of Remedy’s formula will click with a wider audience. Videos like this put into words that awe I was feeling playing their games. Or maybe it’s because they continue to be relatively niche (for a AAA studio I mean) that they maintain that quality and care…
This analysis and explanation of approach are brilliant, I always notice these things about the game and love them, but you put it into words spectacularly. The parallel you made to real life at the end I never grasped, aside from maybe subconciously, that conclusion/wrap up was amazing.
Oh yeah finding details within the world and dialogue always make you feel so smart to piece them all together. It's why I don't like when people need outside game resources to understand stuff in game which is lazy for the makers to excuse their own writing. The story should be on base great and the books or information you find should be extra detail for those who want to expand on the extra lore. Tales of the abyss does this well when you can read the lore in the library but the base story already tells you so much. The extra details like what happens to the replicas who failed is also gruesome
As someone who loves Alan Wake and Control, I'm ashamed I didn't even know Quantum Break existed until now. Guess that's going in the backlog. Hell, now I wanna replay the entire Remedy-verse
I don't blame you! It was a xbox exclusive, that is kind of a prototype for Control in some ways. And definitely less refined because of it. And depending how you look at it, some will say is the black sheep of Remedy's titles and that's saying something. Of course that was before Crossfire X, but you know...
@@kinothemysticTim Breaker and Mr. Door us from Quantum Break? I didn't know that, I mean I have Quantum Break and played it several times and there's neither of those characters in QB. Unless you're referring to the actors, in particular Shawn Ashmore himself.
@@azoth7756 Tim Breaker = Jack Joyce. An alternate version of him. In Alan Wake 2, he has visions of a red haired woman aka Beth Wilder. And being haunted by a black man aka Martin Hatch/Mr Door. Martin Hatch is a shifter and can travel through dimensions just like Mr Door. Door/Hatch. You also gotta play his Night Springs DLC in Alan Wake 2. LOTS of connections there
@@kinothemystic I don't have that dlc but I've seen that playthrough online, and I have to say you're kinda mislead there, outside fan theories. That red haired woman you're referring to is in fact Jesse Faden from Control, not Beth Wilder as Quantum Break is it's own IP, so in essence Jack Joyce and Tim Breaker are two different characters played by the same actor, at least based on what Sam Lake had hinted at in an interview last year. I've been seeing this online, but Sam Lake himself have stated that that they're easter egg references based on their previous games. But if seeing Tim Breaker makes fans think of Jack Joyce and Quantum Break, then that means the devs did what they intended to do, I suppose.
One of my favourite creators releasing a video on the Remedy games I'm currently beyond obsessed with, ON my birthday?? What a treat, thank you Daryl 🙌
@@DarylTalksGames Thank you!! And thanks for making this video, I loved it! Even spotted a few details from AW2 I missed 👀 I'll sign up for your patreon after this, keep up the great work man!
If i had a dollar each time I've heard an English speaker in a RUclips video pronounce the word "muikku" as "miukku" i'd have 2 dollars. Which isn't lot but it's weird that it has happened twice.
Cannot fucking believe he hit us with the "it's not a lake, it's an ocean" as the last line lmao. So awesome
with my fav song from the game
Sam lake is actually frank Ocean
with the Ocean View book at the end too, damn incredible
My ears perked up and my hair stood on end like YOU JUST DID THAT
It's not a meme, it's a cognitohazard
*3 Minutes into the video*
“FINE, YOU’VE SOLD ME! I’LL PLAY THEM, I’LL PLAY THEM ALL!”
*camera snap zooms to face*
“Oh yeah, it’s all coming together”
I've played Control, but not the others (unless you count Death Rally back in the 90s.) Maybe I'll consider AW now.
@@azuarc I mean, Death Rally does feature a character called "Tom the Rhymer", a reference to an Historic/Mythological individual.
The idea of "Tom the Poet" in the Remedy-verse is based on him.
Also, in Alan Wake 2, there is a breakroom with an Arcade Box of Death Rally (not playable, unfortunately).
So, Death Rally is definitely part of the Remedy-verse ;)
@@azuarca tip that might save some frustration down the line: Alan Wake is not absolutely necessary to play before Alan Wake 2 (heresy, I know, but even the people who love it find it frustrating to play) but you do need some level of understanding of the story. Watch a walk through or even just do a wiki trawl (how I did it having also only played Control before I played Alan Wake 2. I had a lovely time even with just that but also did extensive research afterwards up to and including finding a RUclips channel dedicated to breaking down the Remedy ‘verse).
3 seconds watching pokemon:
"FINE, I'LL CATCH THEM ALL"
as a kingdom heart fan i can confirm i always do that deep sigh when someone asks me to explain the lore
"learning the plot of kingdom hearts" is probably my favorite video on youtube
@@hyde_stopStealingMyUsername See if you play the games then it's somewhat easy to follow UNTIL THE TIME TRAVEL AND THE MOBILE GAME.
9months late and i agree ahaha
I like the detail in Helldivers 2 (of all games) where after Basic Training there is a few monolithic plaques that you can read that have the contract for being a Helldiver on it. Reading said contract is against the contract, and not reading it is automatic acceptance lol.
Helldivers has some amazing little details that make the game so funny. The superstore reviews will sometimes have a 1 star review that was redacted and being investigated for treason, Earth is the literal center of the universe on the map, and the ship broadcasts give so many great details about civilian life.
these detials solidified why its such a great starship trooper game 😁
Most people I've seen who didn't like control rushed through the game without interacting with any of the notes, videos and audio logs in the game, remedy's magic has always been in the details.
I'm usually tired of the old text logs and notes in games, but I've read every piece of paper and watched every tape I've come across in Control because its world was just so weird and fascinating. It's basically SCP lore hidden in a badass superhero shooter. Show me another game where the most terrifying enemy is an old fridge.
@@matman000000 that's exactly my experience. In most games i really don't put effort in reading any collectible, but with control i was almost compelled to read every single report, every single transcription and watch every single tape. I really love that game and wish i had the patience to play alan wake (the controls just leave me kinda icky, didn't play the secon one though)
It's so weird that anyone would rush through control. The game is so intricately crafted and delicately told that nothing would make sense without looking into the details
I loved those aspects of Control, but what I didn’t like was that despite all of the resonant weirdness of the plot and the stunning environments, so much of the gameplay boiled down to just another shooter. I generally dislike shooters and hate boss battles, so that was really frustrating and offputting for me. Smashing up the environment was a nice twist on that, but the combat scenes were mostly just an annoyance. If it had been more of an immersive sim, with options to work around combat, I would have enjoyed it a lot more, and I think that would have been more tonally congruent with the eeriness and complex storytelling.
The combat got really samey for me so I realized it was making me rush through things so I can get the game "done with". I switched to one-kill option and just read every collectible and yeah, they were top notch, it was some good X-files soup. I would not however call it good in design overall, they may be the best notes in a game but as Yahtzee often points out, anything that stops you from playing the game is not good game design. Should have been pure audiotapes.
To answer the question why make something like that if most of the players wont notice: as a creative writer I can tell you: it's fun! It's so much fun to create something this complex and consistent, even spanning more than one title. And if just one player finds the hints, connects the dots, does the work and follows the breadcrumbs it's just satisfying xD
On another note I wanted to honorably mention Half Life here, which achieved a similar mystery in gaming history.
I'm an artist currently working on creating character designs for a portfolio. But I didn't wanna just make random, cool-looking characters without any context. So I spent a lot of time researching and thinking about and putting together a plausible world for the characters to exist in. A proper story. The audience (employers mainly lol) won't see all these background details that I paintsakingly thought about and crafted, they will just see the final product.
But I think that giving all these things thought and consideration absolutely SHOWS in the final product. Things won't feel one-dimensional.
@@SidPhoenix2211 that’s the sign an artist who actually loves what they do. I’m happy for you!
100% agree as a published writer myself. There's the story, then there's references and connections that specific people might figure out or understand. If you notice that's wonderful but it also doesn't kill your appreciation of the story. But when someone really gets into knowing aspects it's so much fun!
And also Portal.
In a class I took that taught writing for video games, our professor (who had actually worked on published games such as Left For Dead), said that ideally a game's story should be able to work on three levels: skimming, dipping, and diving. You're going to have players who just take in the surface-level story (skimmers), some who look just a bit further to find more detail (dippers), and those who do full dives into the lore and details of a story (divers). He said that if a game is crafted in such a way that any of these types of players can come away feeling satisfied and not confused, it's well crafted. Years later, I still can't help but agree.
(And also it's fun!)
My backlog just grew
And my backlog of Daryl's videos just grew as well 😆 One day gonna binge watch!
@@rezaman2080 you both I can relate 😂
Every time I watch a Daryl talks game video my backlog grows
Same bro.. same
Social lives are so overrated
I was actually wondering if you'd mention The Janitor, who seems to appear everywhere in each of the Remedy games. A normally unassuming member of society, there to clean up places after everyone else has gone home for the day. The person that all too many pass by without a second glance, never knowing their name or showing appreciation.
And yet this Janitor knows a lot more than he's letting on... possibly everything about the world and how it works, maybe even an orchestrator of events.
However, it is quite certain the world would fall apart without him...
Not to mention, a janitor has the key to every room in the building.
Ahti!!!
I’m pretty sure Ahti is a deity, god of the sea/water perhaps in Finnish folklore. It’s a big rabbit hole I’d recommend having a look. It explains why he moves so freely throughout different planes of existence and knows so much about everything.
@@sippy1sippy a key to every door… hmmm
The Finnish word for "janitor" literally translates to "man of the house". Which, considering where you first find him...
What struck me playing Control was how well the developers understand the medium of digital games they're working in. The broad rule of thumb is to keep the environment around the player stable. Avoid texture glitches or objects loading in. But Control happily unloads and reloads environments around you. The portraits of Hesse as the director change after she takes up the gun. Walls appear behind you, you often question the layout of the floors because video games aren’t constrained to physical reality. An object only has physics or is solid because the program is told to treat it as such. This allows Remedy to really lean heavily into the space bending otherworldly nature of the world in those games.
In theory, but in practice the fact that it's so scripted takes away from the magic. They could have made the game about the shifting Old House but instead it's a linear action shooter.
It's a great game, 9/10, but it's not 10/10.
It's funny that because of this element, I actually thought a glitch I got near the end of control was intentional. (it wasn't and was actually a bug.)
The details about Old Gods of Asgard really blew my mind. I found that song on iTunes last year, and had no idea the band is fictional or that it was tied to the Remedy-verse. Amazing!
Go look up Poets of the Fall, the real band behind Old Gods of Asgard. If you liked Old Gods, you'll probably love Poets as well.
I've been a fan of Poets of the Fall for years and years. After listening to them a lot on Spotify, the algorithm served me up "Children of the Elder God," which is an Old Gods of Asgard song. I thought, "that's cool, they sound like Poets as a metal band," and went on with life. A year or so later, I played Alan Wake 1, and there's a part where a radio broadcast is playing in the background and they put on a Poets song, comparing them to Old Gods. Turns out Sam Lake is friends with Poets of the Fall. It was awesome.
Wait what? Oh my god I thought it was a band that just helped with Alan Wake 2. I've been listening to them for half a year, my mind is blown
I love stories that feel like like the author has binders and binders of backstory and worldbuilding, but only put in what was necessary. Loose ends keep the world from being a bubble, but only if you have confidence that there is an explanation that you're not being given.
Great essay! So, Oceanview Motel in Control. During a point where it's nighttime outside, I was able to get a small glimpse of the outside through a window. It was a desert landscape, barren except the one thing you can barely make out: the Oceanview Motel sign from Alan Wake's American Nightmare, a story written by Wake as an escape attempt.
Oh fascinating - I hadn’t considered that angle (largely cause I never played American Nightmare)
I’ll have to keep my eyes out if I play through Control again
From the A.W.E. DLC in Control it seems like the entire events of Control were 'written' by Wake in an attempt to escape - and certainly the Hiss share a few similarities to the Dark Presence...
control really scratched the itch for scp games for me. the details were amazing
YES!!
Very much so!
Funny you say that because control was inspired by the SCP forums !:D
@@zimbiotic7325That's pretty obvious to anyone who reads the documents.
@@MetalMockingjay yeah but some people didn’t and you have to give them the benefit of the doubt!
Environmental scarytelling
😂literally
I think about this comment often and it always makes me chuckle. Its silly, but it always makes me happy!
Also the first time I saw this comment I laughed for like 2 minutes
This one deserved a heart tbh
@@melancholyentertainment You mean a like/upvote?
The best ad for remedy and the talent of Sam Lake.
I played my first remedy game, Max Payne, about a year ago. The congruity of small details, the atmosphere, 3rd wall breaking, and style just captivated me but I never played anything else from them. Time to change that
"the atmosphere, 3rd wall breaking, and style" You mean the 4th wall.
Short Message's library is particularly egregious because it's a *Silent Hill* game, a series whose original entries were overflowing with so much world building minutia that people are still pouring over them today. Silent Hill 3 even had a fully realized bookstore
I feel like it's intentional, and that a library filled with only the same books is intentionally unsettling. Like how your brain doesn't actually populate a library in a dream with real books. It just shows something that implies more. Here they are drawing your attention to the uncanny nature of the world by making you look for one special book in a library full of blah blah blah.
Additionally actually hiding a book in a fully stocked library wouldn't be fun. Players would waste time actually checking every shelf.
In defense of the developers of The Short Message, the library in The Short Message isn't a real library. It's a mental projection of a library from the protagonist's psyche. The repetition of those few books in particular might be because those are the books that she's most familiar with because they might be the required textbooks for her high school classes, or they are books that she has personally checked out from the library to read on her own time.
It could be interesting to do some research into whether those books in The Short Message are real books, and if so, what are they about? Perhaps they have some thematic relevance or provide some context about the game's narrative (in addition to the super-obvious themes and context that the game explicitly spells out and hits the player over the head with).
The library in SH3, on the other hand, is a real place (albeit a place that is transformed from its natural state) that exists independently of the protagonist's mind, and so is populated with real books.
i respect that reasoning but to me it feels more like an excuse to be able to design the library in that way. It can be the same explanation with the sticky notes and i would still feel like it missed an opportunity to do something more interesting than that idk tho @@MegaBearsFan
@@AnaCarolinaCosta I agree. Regardless of the intention, it still LOOKS lazy.
I think a better way to convey that dream-like quality would be to make all of the titles gibberish. Like those early AI images- They look like words but are unreadable. The other books blur together, and the one you need stands out. It even makes it easier to overlook any copy-pasting because it's already clear what they were going for.
I also want to share OP's sentiment about SH3. Every location in that game feels real, but just a little off, as it should.
Early on, you can go into what is basically a Burger King (the legally-distinct "Happy Burger") And every detail, from the shape of the booths and the counter, to the colors on the menu are spot-on. This is an optional location that you can pass right by. There's no lore, no secret weapons, or a joke ending, just a couple of minor healing items. I didn't know it was there my first few playthroughs, but they put in the effort.
That's the second time in a week that I've been reminded that I need to play that game again, but now I need to play Control and the Alan Wake games. I'm so conflicted.
As a Finnish citizen, I am proud of what this small country has done.
The creatives at Remedy did the work. The country had nothing to do with it, you had nothing to do with it. All this "Suomi mainittu" stuff is super cringe.
@@eee2861 commenting is cringe
This and the Fear and Hunger games, you Finns are really something huh.
So much metal too 🤘🏼
@@eee2861you dont realize how influential finland is on the game market despite its size
If you've got the time, I highly recommend Prey (2017). I finished it recently and I can't remember the last time I played a game with so much attention and care put into every little environmental detail, it was incredible.
This 100%!!
Agreed, that game is criminally underrated
It was great and after that Arkane fell off. They copy paste the same game and slap a different name on it everytime. The only time they did something different was that vampire online game which got abysmal ratings 🥲
@@faroazandeen589 you can't be serious. The Dishonored series (only 3 games) are amazing games, with incredible and adaptable gameplay which allows for some of the most varried experiences in video games... The art, story and attention to detail are some of the best in all of video games history. Each game is unique, you play a different character everytime with different abilities... In the second opus you can even mix up the characters' abilities as you wish. Those games were considered the best of the immervive sim genre and all around very good games. Just say you didn't play them and move on...
@@DearShion OR... It could just be that I don't like those games.
It's videos like these that make me so happy I found your channel. I love your videos that take a more "research" oriented approach with referenced experiments and studies, but this format has it's own benefits. I could feel the passion you have towards games that leave you wondering. Keep up the good work!
I haven't played these games, but I'm surprised more people aren't talking about the extreme Twin Peaks vibes they give off. There are even what seem to be nods towards it (the red curtains, small town feel, the light lady essentially being this story's Log Lady). Would also like to mention the Address Unknown series in Max Payne, which mirrors what Max is going through. Love that Remedy included that detail.
Sam Lake is clearly a fan of Twin Peaks. The Oh Deer! Diner is almost exactly the same layout as the diner in the show.
There are several RUclips docs that specifically explain every single Twin peak reference in alan wake. It's well known and has been discussed for years, hust search it up.
I think it was pretty obvious in Alan Wake 1. Have you played Deadly Premonition? It's even more blatant lol. Weird and flawed game but it smells like passion.
Sam lake the creator of Alan Wake throughout all of this has talked very clearly that David Lynch is a huge inspiration for Alan Wake. Especially during the first games development and marketing. They even modeled it after the same town that Twin Peaks did in the first game coming to the Pacific Northwest for several weeks and coming back with hundreds of pictures. So yes you are completely correct.
To be fair, Twin Peaks is a bit niche even today (it's Lynch), so the majority of audiences probably would miss the references. They did, of course, understand the references to Stephen King in the first game, largely because the game was a bit obvious with them (the Wikipedia page has an image of the Shining door reference, it's not exactly subtle).
I was so drawn in by Alan Wake 2, it's one of my favorite games of all time. When I was playing it, I wrote a ton of the graffiti messages on my white board outside of my bedroom. I used the little details that drew me into the game to keep me connected with it while I wasn't playing.
i just wish remedy would have tweaked the gameplay more, cause that was kinda ass (and saga too, sadly)
the oceanview transitions are soo goooood
I felt so cozy every time I went through the motel in Control
I love it when someone has call backs or... call forwards?... to their other works.
Back when my life was nothing but L4D2 mods, I found a map that had some very random easter eggs in it. Without knowing it, each one was either explaining something weird in a past mod or teasing a future one, and they continued to do this until the last mod they made. The mod itself yet again referencing stuff, but the whole thing was clearly signalling that the mod author was done. Every bit of graffiti, every message, the map itself ending in after a nuke went off and your health is draining from nuclear fallout and you don't even get rescued. Except there was a graffiti art that never got used, that you could find if you decompliled the file the mod was in and it was random art of a character. Even in the last mod they made, they were still leaving cryptid hints to the future.
I always found it so damn cool.
Watching the Creative director say out loud that there is a lot of fun to be had looking back and finding interesting ways of connecting the details to fit the new story and world and plot makes me want to show this to the team that does Zelda at Nintendo HQ. Instead of saying the timeline "restricts them" they should have fun! Connecting old details that at the time meant nothing to new thing!! Like the fans do ALL THE TIME. Nintendo sometimes feel like a bunch of Aliens doing good games by chance and not understanding why people liked them.......
The ending though, that's good
I’m very curious to see how it’s received haha
@@DarylTalksGames I would say that the ocean view and the ignore this whole thing came together and formed a double punch line, love it
That was a crazy good payoff! When it clicked in my head I did the Leonardo DiCaprio pointing meme IRL.
explore the decor of the Oceanview
where the doors only open for a chosen few
check your logic at the desk, you won't need it to progress
a dream is just a test to be broken through
- Into the Void, Stupendium
not usually prone to quoting but this song drew me to Control & your video is likely to draw me to Alan Wake 2, in spite of not being into fps fighty games. Love some good lore, esp environmentally rich lore
I think your original title referencing the devils in the details makes more sense. As this video is less about horror, and more about that over-abundance of detail that seems so well thought out but still just beyond our understanding.
Either way, its a great video and another example of how you're one of the more interesting video-game essayists out there. Cheers!
15:57 This can easely be explained by the fact that Alan Wake stayed in expensive hotels (as a succesfull writer) and Jesse stayed in cheap Motels searching for the oldest house. So they are the same, but different people experience it as different motels/hotels. I bit like the town of SIlent Hill
That ending was phenomenal. I'm playing the games soon, but my god.
One of the things I liked about the Oceanview Motel when I was playing through Control, there's a segment that goes through the Motel again, and if you hang out in the lobby for a little bit, you can hear the muffled sound of a minivan family on vacation trying to figure out if the motel is open or not at the front door
I love when one of your videos come out. I put you, Adam Millard, Razbuten, and Monty Zander all in the same high tier category for video game essayists. I drop everything and watch when your videos come out. Thanks for all the great content.
Don’t forget Joseph Anderson
and lextorias !
eurothug4000
Surely Raycevick as well!
Jacob Gellar
23:25 This actually reminded me of something Toby Fox seems to be setting up in Undertale and Deltarune. In Snowdin Sans gives you a word search that features a character named "Icee" and this character is seemingly never brought up again. In Deltarune however there is now an Icee Pizzeria where the Deltarune version of Burgerpants works. Icee also appears in Chapter 2's Cyber World briefly when you solve a puzzle to get a blue check mark. The puzzle directly calls back to the word search because the solution is one of the answers in the word search. (The answer is literally just the entire top row of the word search lol). Finally a few months ago a Spamton Sweepstakes Event was held where we got a truckload of new lore about Spamton, Kris, and Noelle and in one hidden story you can learn about how Kris, Noelle, Asriel, and Dess buried a burnt Icee's Pizza Box in the graveyard. (You just can't make this stuff up) Now the community is theorizing that we may get a restaurant themed Icee Dark World at some point or we may get a Graveyard Dark World where the buried pizza box may become a secret boss or something.
By the way if anyone reading this is a fan of Deltarune and hasn't checked out the Spamton Sweepstakes I highly recommend taking a look at it. You can find it at the bottom of the Deltarune site under News and Updates. My advice is literally click on everything, every link is a secret.
Toby Fox lore always gives me the impression that it’s barely held together with duct tape and bubblegum and that if you look to closely the entire thing will fall apart from plot holes, yet no matter how closely I look I can’t find anything that makes it crack. I keep thinking “It feels like there’s an oversight here, but I don’t actually know what it is.” The lore really should be making me angry from the confusion but it doesn’t, in the words of Todd Howard: “It just works!”
I don’t know if this is the same feeling Daryl was describing in the video, I’m not familiar with Remedy’s games.
Honestly Alan wake in terms of plot and writing is just weirdly similar to deltarune I mean both games have a dark presence that turns non livings things into reality (in alan wake it's fiction in deltarune it's inanimate objects) and are based concentrated primarily in one place (the dark place in alan wake and the dark worlds in deltarune) and both of these are used as vehicles to explore the relationship between the person viewing the art and the art itself.
To be a bit of a mega nerd for a moment, and also add another strange layer to the Ice-E puzzle; none of the gibberish words match Exactly. They're all one letter off. The word search asks you to find "giasfclfebrehber" which is what the other two are one letter off from matching. The top row of the word search changes the "feb" to "fub" while the Deltarune puzzle changes "fcl" to "fel" instead.
When it was just the two in the word search, I chalked it up to Sans pranking you and making the puzzle technically impossible to pass if you were to sit down and try it. Now that it's in Deltarune... Well, unless it somehow shows up as having story significance, I'm going to chalk it up as Toby having a little fun with those of us who noticed such a small detail; as much as it drives me a little insane.
I can't wait for Deltarune to be finished. Might not be for another few years, but hey, I got time. Will be very interesting to see the full picture of what exactly Toby Fox has in store for us this time around.
Xenoblade did something similar about the retconning of the first one to make it connect to the second one. One very small change in Definitive Edition was enough to confirm a popular theory people had even before Definitive Edition came out, since 2 was released before it
I had to take a long break from Xenoblade. It became all I could think about.
Not only are all the subway signs in AW2 relevant, they are all quotes from AW1. If you've played AW1 a few times (or one REALLY perceptive time), the moment of recognition in AW2 is eerie
Actually, having played AW1 in a moderately perceptive manner, the feeling I got when reading those started out as a vague recognition, like something from a dream. Then it slowly came to me, and made the realisation all the more powerful.
Absolutely amazing video as usual! Having someone as talented as yourself put my feeling towards these games into words is just fantastic. They are most certainly cut from a different cloth and Remedy truly oozes atmosphere and passion for what they do. Thankful you are out here showing games the love they deserve, Daryl!
I was actually just saying this to my partner this weekend. When you look at Rose’s desk in the Night Springs DLC, for example, nothing seems like filler, nothing is generic, even her scotch tape has its own cubby hole. They treat set design the way you might for a film instead of a game, where there’s intentionality in everything
Holy shit, dude... As someone who just recently went through the journey of Alan Wake, Control, and of course, AW2... I feel this video encapsulates so many of the thoughts I didn't even know I was having about these games. Well done, man, my god...
This is such a well done video!! As a big Remedy fan myself i truly couldn't put into words why i love these games better than you did here!! Life itself in a way feels much bigger than we can ever truly grasp and no matter how bizarre the events of these games are it very much gives you that feeling and that makes them feel so real. All of these little details they put into the games, if you look around make the world around you feel real and i adore that!! Thanks for making this video, great job!!
Part of why I love The Oceanview so much is that it hands you like 8 different symbols and any of them could mean anything, it's literally a chekov's firing squad waiting to happen
The Lake House literally straight up says "Oh by the way this symbol here is important" but it's done in such an esoteric way and devoid of context that I don't even know what it's actually supposed to represent even after seeing what it seemingly represents
There's also another symbol there that I think the game might have foreshadowed as well depending on how you interpret it which brings up questions of what that would mean in the context of the Oceanview and I genuinely think this is why I love Remedy so much, there's no other series that would make me question something like this to this degree
*takes notes for dming his dnd sessions* >:3 nice. I love your works. This is useful.
Get in, losers… we’re going Daryling!
This video is dynamite ;)
It's so fetch!
I didn’t find this video. It found me, and it was exactly what I needed! Thank for taking the time and producing such a gem!
As one dude said, "Same Lake, you HACK!!(affectionately)"
Wise dude
i’ve been over here enjoying these art pieces and you took each of them and dissected them in the most profound and conclusive way. but like you said, “they leave just enough for us to want more..” so true.
This gave me chills and almost made me cry. Honestly, great games, and a marvelous video about them. Just goes to show how much joy this loving attention to detail can bring.
From someone who loves and has done alot of viewing and analyzing the game as well as the secondary sources such as interviews I can tell you I DEEPLY appreciate this video. I could never put into words all the things you convey in this video in such an orderly yet entertaining manner. I see what you did with the title :D.
daryl, honestly, your videos are pure BANGERS. i only played quantum break out of those 4, but i couldn't take my eyes off of the screen
Loved this video, Daryl! A love letter to Remedy which really grasps a large part of why I adore their storytelling. Hope you’ve had a great day and thank you for your work :)
One thing that you didn’t mention was the ng+ mode in Alan wake 2. It’s called the Final Draft and is very involved in knowledge about the world and the story unfolding. Due to various events in the first playthrough the characters have some vague idea that what’s unfolding has already happened. There are new notes, videos, story points, and a new ending. You gain a deeper understanding of what’s happening by interacting with the world more.
Dude, I LOVE Remedy's games. You can genuinely tell how passionate they are about making these weird, crazy stories.
Thank you for choosing to speak about Remedy
My god this is such a perfect explanation of what Remedy's narration and World building is at its core. You've nailed it. And that last line... Perfection 👌
Yeah... I've been wanting to play Control for a while, now I need to just play Every. Single. Remedy. Game.
Honestly, you can play Control by itself. It's so perfectly made that people didn't even connect it to Alan Wake until much later with the AWE DLC (Alan Wake Expansion)
@@NrettG nah, people (including me) found direct connections way earlier in the base game, in 2019. There are documents found, i think before the Panopticon area, that talk about Bright Falls and what happened there. There's also a manuscript page (altered item) in the Panopticon in a hidden area and when you go up to it, an overlayed vision of Alan Wake appears. This was all before the AWE DLC was even announced, and day one of the game coming out.
@@kinothemystic Huh, I never knew it was there day one. I played much later (Ultimate Edition) and just assumed that all the alan wake connections were added post announcement (with the exception of mr. door and such)
@@NrettG yep!! So as a huge Alan Wake fan since 2010, I freaked the hell out when i came across those documents. Regarding Mr. Door, *that* character is in reference to a character named Martin Hatch in Quantum Break. Pretty much an alternate version of the character since Remedy doesnt own the Quantum Break IP
@@kinothemysticsame goes for Alex Casey, the obvious stand-in for Max Payne since Rockstar owns that IP.
Amazing video, I'd never gotten into these games but I liked the title and description of this video so I thought I'd listen anyway. I'm glad I did, as you did a terrific job of going over the intricacies of this studio weaving a story with subtext throughout their games. I now want to play these games and experience this sense of wonder found in the details myself. I always enjoy piecing together a puzzle like this, so thanks again for the great video.
I love that you picked up on the lowkey best song in Alan Wake 2 "Follow You In To the Dark" cause that was the first time I let the song just roll during my playthrough and was enraptured.
I've been a fan of Remedy for a while, and am incredibly happy to see this video. They don't make perfect games, but all of them are so very special in a way no other games ever will be. I will always play, and buy, any new game they make on day one. You don't see this kind of genius in video games very often.
That idea of music making you feel as if you’re peering into a small microcosm of the world is also used in Final Fantasy 14, at least in some cases. Some boss fights have lyrics that tell a story or are some form of the boss speaking to you, and while not always like that, the ones that do it are pretty interesting, like the song “Equilibrium”
Best example is MGR
Thanks for covering some of my favorite games in recent memory! I had played Alan Wake and then Control came along and really resonated with me. Lore littered everywhere, explaining our own real world mythology and legends, and still pulling back the curtain on the world of Control itself just enough to keep you looking for more. Will pick up Alan Wake 2 in the near future to keep going down that rabbit hole.
These games were already on my 'to play' list but they've shot up to the top spot. I f'n love your videos
i highly recommend playing in this order -> Alan Wake, Alan Wake's American Nightmare, Quantum Break, Control + AWE DLC, Alan Wake 2
@@kinothemystic That's the order of release right? I usually go that route!
@@GameTalesHQ yep!! you can also optionally play through Max Payne 1 and 2
@@kinothemystic I'm already a huge fan of the Max Payne series, I even made a deep dive video on the first game a month ago haha!
@@GameTalesHQ just gonna say this: When playing through Alan Wake 1, keep an eye out on anything relating to a character named Alex Casey. And i will check that video out!!
You
Really do need more subscribers.
Your content is of the level that deserves at least 3 million, if not more.
If anything, I simply wish you had more money just so you could post more often. Because your content is insanely compelling
I can't even hear the name sam lake without hearing *you hack* in the back of my mind. God bless him
This is probably the most interesting video you've made up until now. This is going on repeat for the rest of my night at work - thank you.
Nier mentioned. I repeat, Nier mentioned!
Alright, on a more serious note, I had no idea these games went so far with the story. I played a bit of Control and have always been curious about Alan Wake, but I never actually properly dove into any of it. This kind of story telling and world building is my absolute favorite kind of writing and you have most certainly convinced me to play the games and study the intricacies. Thank you for bringing this to my attention
Honestly I just witnessed my favourite gaming video. You understand the sub narrative and references so deeply and being able to explain them in well written scripts and brilliant editing. OH MAN! Time for Control and AW2 replays!
People don't give enough credit to Remedy. Amazing video which dives really, really deep into the madness, well deserved. Great work, my friend. Alan Wake 2 is a masterpiece. Control is a black hole for lore fiends. I'm speechless how good these stories are.
I haven't been able to go back to Control, but that game sits in the back of my mind (and game library), and I know it's waiting to be explored. I love how you were able to highlight just how eldritch these games feel without spoiling them, and I appreciate that so much. It's oddly comforting how these narratives show you how you, as a single player, can't make sense of everything, yet rewards you for trying anyway. At some point, you know you won't get all the answers, but there's still meaning and enjoyment in piecing together what you can, and a sense of peace at the end because you understand you don't have or understand every piece: and that's OK.
Hopefully, I'll be able to go back and explore the House again.
This makes me wanna go back and replay Alan Wake 2 simply my goty of 2023. Great video mate.
From what I could understand, the Oceanview Motel can be used as a way to isolate certain places from the rest of the world, for example, the Clock Threshold was contained because if the items continued to multiply it would eventually affect the entire world.
So I finished Control just a few weeks ago and it was one of the few games that kept me interested enough to read/listen to/watch every scrap of lore info I could find in game. And I think I found a lot but somehow it always made me feel like there is more. Like *I* am the reason I'm not getting the full picture, not the game itself. The other thing I found fascinating is that essentially you spend the entire game waiting for a jumpscare that never comes - or in my case regularly jumpscare yourself with the most normal stuff you wouldn't look twice at if the game didn't create this atmosphere of tension around you literally all the time.
The ending of the story though (so uhm vague spoilers from here) I found slightly disappointing. I almost think it tried to explain too much. I remember feeling so dumbfounded after the "first credits", so utterly confused and ready to think this through and figure it out, that I almost wish it had ended there.
100%, that’s how it was for me too. It felt like most real world “unexplainable events” feel, like you have just enough info to be really unsettled by it, but it’s clear we’re all missing something. And somehow, that makes it even stranger.
I agree on the end though, it was just… fine haha. I did read that Sam Lake and the crew purposefully structured the end such that nothing really changes. You can still move around the house, investigate anomalies, etc. They wanted to narratively allow you to keep playing and tying up loose ends, which was… a choice haha. Though I think it’ll set up Control 2 nicely.
24:42 That's how Andrew Hussie did it before them in Homestuck. Yes, the continuity is insane, but a lot of it was specifically made to tie to previous hooks that qere made by the seat of his pants. It was a great strategy, as illustrated by Colonel Sassacre's Daunting Text of Magical Frivolity and Practical Japery, its bodycount, and the screaming of his name
Yesss I really LOVE the Remedyverse, been hoping you'd tackle a video on these games, thanks a lot!!
Voices of the Void perfectly fits this category, too, and in a few ironic ways given the monsters therein. Try it without spoilers and you'll get wowed- it's a free early access game!
Thanks for mostly translating and putting into words how I feel about Remedy. I played Max Payne 2 at 10 years old when it was new, and it was those little inter-connected details (the comic book panels, in-game TV shows, environmental storytelling, fake ads/brands, NPC conversations) that *literally* shaped how I view and interact with the real world. I'm not kidding, I "blame" these games for how I fundamentally see the world, as well as my philosophy on life lol.
Everything is an echo or a loop of everything else, and we are just stuck somewhere in the middle trying to make sense of all of it... which we absolutely can't, but we find it engaging to try anyway.
You totally nailed it with this one and if you wanted to encourage me to go play these games you successed
I literally get goosebumps at the end man. A great video as always.
Love the disclaimer!
That's what any review should do, encourage to play!
Any positive review, at least.
I just finished Alan Wake 1, so this was some good timing getting me excited to finish up the bonus stuff and get to American Nightmare and AW2. You really put into words why I’m so into Remedy’s stuff, I love how detail oriented their games are, constantly stopping to read, watch, and inspect every inch just to see what’s there.
One of the most influential phrases for me as a writer and simply as a story enjoyer comes from a random quote in Persona 4.
After the main characters are thrown into the magical weird TV world and meet Teddy, a resident of this world, they begin bombarding him with questions about the world. At some point, Teddy answers he doesn't know. One of the main characters gets angry at him "What do you mean you don't know? This is your world!" and Teddy answers "Well do YOU know everything about YOUR world?"
The oxenfree background music is amazing, surprised I couldn't find a single comment that points it out
Excuse me! There's nothing more exciting than someone asking me about KH lore!!!
(part of the excitement might be because nobody ever asks...)
Just letting you know how much I appreciate you listing all the music used in your video. I never would have been able to find the song I was looking for otherwise.
Remedy is a prime example of what I call a "middle shelf" developer. They make solid games, with good production values and an identity of their own. They don't have to sell millions to make a profit, they don't have to be the most popular game out there, they just exist. And that is what the industry needs more of. Middle shelf, "AA" games that aren't setting out to reinvent the wheel or make ALL the money. The only problem with being a middle shelf dev is that they can easily be overlooked and sometimes their games aren't for everyone.
That said I have played both Alan Wake and Control and I can't recommend them enough. I still have to play Alan Wake 2 at some point but I'm not in a rush to get my hands on it. More so because it's stuck on the friggin' Epic store for the time being.
I regret to inform you that AW2 is not one of the timed Epic exclusives that will come to Steam later; Epic has the publishing rights for Alan Wake. It's why Alan Wake Remastered remains stuck on EGS even years later (honestly though that one's fine, Remastered is completely borked on PC).
No one has convinced me to play Remedy Entertainment games as much as you. Magnificent work on this video.
21:23 yo that's the janitor from Control
This is your best video.
I've added this to my Greatest Video Essays playlist, the writing in this video was absolutely fantastic.
I was hooked on every word.
Nice sub list. Lots of common ground
Oddly enough, one of my favourite examples of this is Sonic Adventure 2. There's tons of little details that connect Gerald Robotink's research to Chaos from the first game such as the Artificial Chaos enemies, as well as the Biolizard having the same roar as Perfect Chaos.
So for the doors in Oceanview (minor spoilers for Control):
There’s the black pyramid door and its opposite seems to rep the red pyramid (it’s outlined bc it’s only drawn in white chalk) - end spoiler.
Then we have the spiral door. It reps darkness as per commentary in the “The Third Thing” hotline. He correlates “spiral” with “a black hole”.
The opposite door, in my opinion, is a lightbulb. Why? It is similar to the symbol we see in AW1. The outer circle represents light while the inner is the bulb and socket.
See the pattern? The doors on each side are opposing in conflict.
The last two doors seem to be about AW2 (haven’t played yet) where the rectangles door has to do with imagery you see after beating the doctor boss.
Mentions Sam Lake
Bricky fans: *"You hack!" noises*
It became part of my everyday vocabulary!
Sam Hack you Lake
There it is !
Amazing video once again Daryl! Applauds for pronouncing "Yötön Yö" so well!
bro, I was just talking on reddit about how scared Control makes me feel. I know its silly, there’s literally no jump scare or anything like it, but the oldest house have this feeling that creeps me tf out. Every fucking time a had to cross a bridge and not being able to see the bottom, only darkness made me imagine the shit that could be in there, there’s a boss fight that is LITERALLY A FUCKING ANCHOR, but somehow I was so scared of that image that I couldn’t play the game for a few hours. Not to mention The Former, I always had to mute the game when he speak bcs it made me scared. I knoow, 20y old ass ascared of this dumb shit, Im not proud of it lmao but it is what it is, think this would be nice to share
No, I get it. Jacob Geller brought that up in his video essay on haunted houses, and how the Oldest House is, in essence, a haunted house. There's something ominous and unknowable about it that defies proper explanation, no matter how much the bureaucracy of the FBC attempts to categorize the supernatural in mountains of paperwork. It's filled with unexplained phenomena that the people there just have come to accept and corridors that don't seem to make sense if one was trying to build a proper office space. It's both familiar and alien in a way that makes the entirety of the building uncanny. And whatever you do, don't look under the stairs.
I really want play Control all the way through because of all the positive reviews but I haven't gotten very far because, yeah, the tone of the game freaks me out. Even knowing there aren't any jump scares may not be enough to help me finish it.
I had the same issue with What Remains of Edith Finch, though, and I did finally manage to get through it. So here's hoping I can finish Control some day.
Wow thank you so much for discussing this! I just finished AW2 last night. I bought it day 1 backlog has just been nuts so didn’t start until recently. I’m FLOORED by the quality of everything about the game. I truly don’t understand why the sales don’t reflect the quality of this experience. I keep hoping the utter genius of Remedy’s formula will click with a wider audience. Videos like this put into words that awe I was feeling playing their games. Or maybe it’s because they continue to be relatively niche (for a AAA studio I mean) that they maintain that quality and care…
My takeaway from this video: Remedy rules.
This video has made me want to play the Alan Wake games more than anything else ever has. Sam Lake also seems like a really cool guy.
It's amazing how you've revealed what makes these games great without actually spoiling anything.
This analysis and explanation of approach are brilliant, I always notice these things about the game and love them, but you put it into words spectacularly.
The parallel you made to real life at the end I never grasped, aside from maybe subconciously, that conclusion/wrap up was amazing.
Oh yeah finding details within the world and dialogue always make you feel so smart to piece them all together.
It's why I don't like when people need outside game resources to understand stuff in game which is lazy for the makers to excuse their own writing. The story should be on base great and the books or information you find should be extra detail for those who want to expand on the extra lore.
Tales of the abyss does this well when you can read the lore in the library but the base story already tells you so much. The extra details like what happens to the replicas who failed is also gruesome
Dude your editing blows me away every single fricking time
As someone who loves Alan Wake and Control, I'm ashamed I didn't even know Quantum Break existed until now. Guess that's going in the backlog. Hell, now I wanna replay the entire Remedy-verse
oh you definitely gotta play Quantum Break. Tim Breaker and Mr. Door from Alan Wake 2 are.....sorta from Quantum Break.
I don't blame you! It was a xbox exclusive, that is kind of a prototype for Control in some ways. And definitely less refined because of it. And depending how you look at it, some will say is the black sheep of Remedy's titles and that's saying something. Of course that was before Crossfire X, but you know...
@@kinothemysticTim Breaker and Mr. Door us from Quantum Break? I didn't know that, I mean I have Quantum Break and played it several times and there's neither of those characters in QB. Unless you're referring to the actors, in particular Shawn Ashmore himself.
@@azoth7756 Tim Breaker = Jack Joyce. An alternate version of him. In Alan Wake 2, he has visions of a red haired woman aka Beth Wilder. And being haunted by a black man aka Martin Hatch/Mr Door. Martin Hatch is a shifter and can travel through dimensions just like Mr Door. Door/Hatch. You also gotta play his Night Springs DLC in Alan Wake 2. LOTS of connections there
@@kinothemystic I don't have that dlc but I've seen that playthrough online, and I have to say you're kinda mislead there, outside fan theories. That red haired woman you're referring to is in fact Jesse Faden from Control, not Beth Wilder as Quantum Break is it's own IP, so in essence Jack Joyce and Tim Breaker are two different characters played by the same actor, at least based on what Sam Lake had hinted at in an interview last year. I've been seeing this online, but Sam Lake himself have stated that that they're easter egg references based on their previous games. But if seeing Tim Breaker makes fans think of Jack Joyce and Quantum Break, then that means the devs did what they intended to do, I suppose.
One of my favourite creators releasing a video on the Remedy games I'm currently beyond obsessed with, ON my birthday?? What a treat, thank you Daryl 🙌
Happy birthday!!
@@DarylTalksGames Thank you!! And thanks for making this video, I loved it! Even spotted a few details from AW2 I missed 👀 I'll sign up for your patreon after this, keep up the great work man!
If i had a dollar each time I've heard an English speaker in a RUclips video pronounce the word "muikku" as "miukku" i'd have 2 dollars. Which isn't lot but it's weird that it has happened twice.
English speakers don't even try cause their native language is fucked up
I'm watching you sleep