It is so good to hear you live again! The full dose of information and humor is always a delight! I have missed the repartee and news about more modern findings through advancing techniques, so I am thrilled you say you will be increasing your presence online. Loula near Seattle
such a fantastic Q&A. and thank you so much in answering my question. i couldn't be in the chat due too work. but i am just happy that i was able to know the stuff from you guys. :D
The discussion on graffiti made me remember something. For many years at an exit ramp on I-90 in upstate New York there was always a huge heart mown in the grass. The heart disappeared sometime after 2003. I never learned the story behind it but it was something nice to think about.
Some coloring agents don't hold their color over time, giving us inaccurate ideas about the use of color in the past. The discussion also made me think of what has been discovered about castles. The outside of castles weren't always stark rectangular blocks. In other eras they were plastered and painted. Interiors weren't necessarily dark and gloomy. Just look at how the interior of Dover Castle was redone, filled with bright colors and tapestries.
Prehistory is 'written' by the largest, most durable material culture found. It is not based on the less durable or ephemeral. We have the standing stones to look at but the wooden bowls, nets and baskets are missing.
The Mastodon story reminds me of the worked bones in the Blue Fish Caves, near Old Crow, Yukon (north of where I am). They date to 20,000 years ago, but as natives "positively came to the Americas only 13,000 years ago," they could not be real. Of course, there is now other evidence of natives here 20,000 years ago - or possibly earlier. So, the evidence of Blue Fish is more widely accepted now.
"but as natives "positively came to the Americas only 13,000 years ago," they could not be real." - that is not the current findings. Recent research has established that the people currently referred to as Native Americans have shared ancestors that did not arrive here before ca. 23kya, which is 10k years prior to the figure you wrote. Secondly, there is the whole problem that Michael suggested, that perhaps an early migration of someone in the genus Homo made it to North America. _However_ , no remains (of an individual) have ever been found to support that, not even a tooth.
@@TheDanEdwards Exactly. That is my point - people rejecting data because is contradicts what they already "know." The Blue Fish cave find is a perfect example of that. As for evidence of pre homo-sapiens - look at the Denisovans. Evidence for them is tiny - except in DNA, which the tiny bit of bone at least had people go looking. Maybe we need to look at the natives of the Americans for it!
There's a wonderful scene in Cormac McCarthy's "Blood Meridian" where the troop comes upon a string of ancient petroglyphs. A character, who is later revealed to be the Devil, carefully records the petroglyphs in his journal, then selectively distorts and defaces them with a penknife.
Michael makes a good point about the Cerutti Mastodon. Just because an old (c. 130kya) bone was broken near to the time of its burial does not mean it was a human agent that caused the breakage. And by human I do not just mean H. sapiens but any Homo species. I also note that defenders of an early human presence in the Americas have been nearly polemical in their defense of the idea (see Boeda et. al. in PaleoAmerica vol 8 issue 1. ) I remain skeptical because the proposition needs hard evidence, instead of circumstantial evidence of what appears to be not natural.
Fully agree about irrefutable proofs on the American archeology. Though Dr. David Pompeani has published research pushing the Lake Superior copper mining to 8000bc I believe, possibly earlier (my memory is shit right this moment). I would like a little more support of the evidence, but it is being taken seriously in the archeological community. I know a presentation of his studies can be found here on RUclips if this interests you.😊
@@kariannecrysler640 Ah, the Old Copper Complex as it is called. It's an intriguing story but from what little I know the dating is a bit low quality. Still, there is evidence of metal working there and it (probably) predates the great civilizations in Central America.
@@TheDanEdwards the copper here in Michigan is unique. There are Volkswagen bug size nuggets of 99% copper because of ancient volcanic activity. So no smelting was needed for processing. They literally chipped pure copper from the rocks. A University of Michigan dig in 2020 found a Clovis blade in the lower peninsula in a cornfield. There is the dust caves (cannot remember what state) showing early archaic artifacts. America has a big prehistoric tale to tell, as long as ancient alien’s and morman attempts to prove their religion stop undermining the science.
The native people's of the tiny island of Bequi in the West Indies have a tradition of whaling. They rendered the whales on an even smaller near by island where the bones could still be found in the ''80s. As recently as the '70s the Bequians were still allowed to catch 3 whales a year. I have no idea how ancient the tradition there is. A house we stayed in there had whale rib hand railings.
1:27:00 (or thereabouts) Rupert says the Objiwe "show European DNA" - I think that is not well presented. Or at least I think he should cite published research on that. Some years back that claim was made because various self-identified Native American males who fall into the broad group (Objiwe) had Y chromosomes that were part of the R1 clade. But having such does not at all mean that their ancestors migrated to North America pre-Viking era. Furthermore I think any such discussion of said DNA does not really fit the "Solutrean Hypothesis" so I think raising the latter while discussing the former . IIRC Rupert made a similar claim some time ago, upon which I commented then too (again, if I remember correctly.) At that time I think the discussion was about mtDNA.
Interesting to find out. Thank you. I am not a scholar, but I thought a French Neolithic female dna connection was storied a few years ago . Did you ever see or hear of this? Documentary storied French Neolithic peoples following the ice sheet on an Atlantic current and encountering the Clovis peoples. Great story, all that they had as proof was some tools and the dna I mentioned. Interesting enough to note, but at the time researching accuracy was beyond my entertainment. Curious if you could fact me in if you know the documentary I speak of. Thank you either way.
@@kariannecrysler640 The entire "Solutrean Hypothesis" that Rupert brought up is based entirely on some stone tools found (in North America) that were similar to those found in western Europe. I have found no recent evidence to go any farther with that conjecture. Indeed, DNA research published in 2014 and 2015 explicitly (in the papers) counter the Solutrean conjectured connection to the Clovis people.
Hi Dan, Rupert here. I will try to find my original source material, it was certainly not new and it is quite possible the data has been refined. DNA aside though, conceptually, the notion of transtlantic crossings in prehistory seems perfectly reasonable to me. All best R
@@ThePrehistoryGuys The real issue is, when we talk about "European DNA", we're talking about people who live in a Europe long after the Solutreans, who would be Western European Hunter-Gatherer ancestors. There is 16000 + years of evolution and mixing with EEF, SHG and other groups separating modern Europeans from any contribution the Solutreans could have made to American DNA. Adding to that is the fact that one Solutrean showing up with his Solutrean technology is sufficient to transfer the technology to America, without any significant DNA contribution at all. It didn't have to be a large colonization from Europe, just a few wide-ranging hunters.
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![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
Such a relief to see and hear you two once again. Always interesting. Always a delight!
It is so good to hear you live again! The full dose of information and humor is always a delight! I have missed the repartee and news about more modern findings through advancing techniques, so I am thrilled you say you will be increasing your presence online. Loula near Seattle
Thank you so much!
Really engaging show Guys. Thanks very much.
Glad you enjoyed it - thanks for watching!
I do love you guys 🤗
Excellent show gentlemen. Stay safe and healthy.
Thank you. We'll do our best!
Great little program
Enjoying every minute
Cheers
🕊️🙏🇦🇺
Thank you for answering my question, I very much appreciate it.
such a fantastic Q&A. and thank you so much in answering my question. i couldn't be in the chat due too work. but i am just happy that i was able to know the stuff from you guys. :D
You are so welcome!
Sorry to have missed this and so glad I can catch up now!
The discussion on graffiti made me remember something. For many years at an exit ramp on I-90 in upstate New York there was always a huge heart mown in the grass. The heart disappeared sometime after 2003. I never learned the story behind it but it was something nice to think about.
Some coloring agents don't hold their color over time, giving us inaccurate ideas about the use of color in the past. The discussion also made me think of what has been discovered about castles. The outside of castles weren't always stark rectangular blocks. In other eras they were plastered and painted. Interiors weren't necessarily dark and gloomy. Just look at how the interior of Dover Castle was redone, filled with bright colors and tapestries.
Thank you both for delivering my fix just in time. 🌻
Finally getting to listen...really enjoyed the show:)
Videos of northern people going under the ice at low tides for shell fish, seaweed etc opens insight into their diet .
Prehistory is 'written' by the largest, most durable material culture found. It is not based on the less durable or ephemeral. We have the standing stones to look at but the wooden bowls, nets and baskets are missing.
Another great show!
Brilliant live, thanks for answering my question and sharing your opinion on the matter 👌
Any time! Thanks Stevo 😊
Live the new into. I hope you keep doing that. Great to see you back 😁😁👍
Thanks! Will do!
You guys should ask George Howard from The Cosmic Tusk on the show
The Mastodon story reminds me of the worked bones in the Blue Fish Caves, near Old Crow, Yukon (north of where I am). They date to 20,000 years ago, but as natives "positively came to the Americas only 13,000 years ago," they could not be real. Of course, there is now other evidence of natives here 20,000 years ago - or possibly earlier. So, the evidence of Blue Fish is more widely accepted now.
Interesting. Thanks.
"but as natives "positively came to the Americas only 13,000 years ago," they could not be real." - that is not the current findings. Recent research has established that the people currently referred to as Native Americans have shared ancestors that did not arrive here before ca. 23kya, which is 10k years prior to the figure you wrote.
Secondly, there is the whole problem that Michael suggested, that perhaps an early migration of someone in the genus Homo made it to North America. _However_ , no remains (of an individual) have ever been found to support that, not even a tooth.
@@TheDanEdwards Exactly. That is my point - people rejecting data because is contradicts what they already "know." The Blue Fish cave find is a perfect example of that. As for evidence of pre homo-sapiens - look at the Denisovans. Evidence for them is tiny - except in DNA, which the tiny bit of bone at least had people go looking. Maybe we need to look at the natives of the Americans for it!
⬅️ pats her fuzzy Rupert the Bear doll 😄
The hippocaust idea is on Ancient Architects.
Great discussion. Can’t wait for the next one!😊
Yay, thank you!
There's a wonderful scene in Cormac McCarthy's "Blood Meridian" where the troop comes upon a string of ancient petroglyphs. A character, who is later revealed to be the Devil, carefully records the petroglyphs in his journal, then selectively distorts and defaces them with a penknife.
I'd recommend Googling "Cochno Stone" and not as the transcription would have it 🙂.
Michael makes a good point about the Cerutti Mastodon. Just because an old (c. 130kya) bone was broken near to the time of its burial does not mean it was a human agent that caused the breakage. And by human I do not just mean H. sapiens but any Homo species. I also note that defenders of an early human presence in the Americas have been nearly polemical in their defense of the idea (see Boeda et. al. in PaleoAmerica vol 8 issue 1. ) I remain skeptical because the proposition needs hard evidence, instead of circumstantial evidence of what appears to be not natural.
Fully agree about irrefutable proofs on the American archeology. Though Dr. David Pompeani has published research pushing the Lake Superior copper mining to 8000bc I believe, possibly earlier (my memory is shit right this moment). I would like a little more support of the evidence, but it is being taken seriously in the archeological community. I know a presentation of his studies can be found here on RUclips if this interests you.😊
@@kariannecrysler640 Ah, the Old Copper Complex as it is called. It's an intriguing story but from what little I know the dating is a bit low quality. Still, there is evidence of metal working there and it (probably) predates the great civilizations in Central America.
@@TheDanEdwards the copper here in Michigan is unique. There are Volkswagen bug size nuggets of 99% copper because of ancient volcanic activity. So no smelting was needed for processing. They literally chipped pure copper from the rocks. A University of Michigan dig in 2020 found a Clovis blade in the lower peninsula in a cornfield. There is the dust caves (cannot remember what state) showing early archaic artifacts. America has a big prehistoric tale to tell, as long as ancient alien’s and morman attempts to prove their religion stop undermining the science.
That part about the heart on the oak tree- graffiti
That’s not how trees grow
Carved @ 3 ft stays @ 3ft
It’s not grass
🌳
I have to say how informative "Moby Dick" is about whales....etc....like u guys!
seen research on west side doggerland
oh, dammned I missed it!!
The native people's of the tiny island of Bequi in the West Indies have a tradition of whaling. They rendered the whales on an even smaller near by island where the bones could still be found in the ''80s. As recently as the '70s the Bequians were still allowed to catch 3 whales a year. I have no idea how ancient the tradition there is. A house we stayed in there had whale rib hand railings.
they eat seal stew on faroe islands whichh taste like fishycow same as blumber
Did you say there were no grave goods before the Beaker people?
{:o:O:}
Sea birds were eaten on St Kilda.
1:27:00 (or thereabouts) Rupert says the Objiwe "show European DNA" - I think that is not well presented. Or at least I think he should cite published research on that. Some years back that claim was made because various self-identified Native American males who fall into the broad group (Objiwe) had Y chromosomes that were part of the R1 clade. But having such does not at all mean that their ancestors migrated to North America pre-Viking era.
Furthermore I think any such discussion of said DNA does not really fit the "Solutrean Hypothesis" so I think raising the latter while discussing the former .
IIRC Rupert made a similar claim some time ago, upon which I commented then too (again, if I remember correctly.) At that time I think the discussion was about mtDNA.
Interesting to find out. Thank you. I am not a scholar, but I thought a French Neolithic female dna connection was storied a few years ago . Did you ever see or hear of this? Documentary storied French Neolithic peoples following the ice sheet on an Atlantic current and encountering the Clovis peoples. Great story, all that they had as proof was some tools and the dna I mentioned. Interesting enough to note, but at the time researching accuracy was beyond my entertainment. Curious if you could fact me in if you know the documentary I speak of. Thank you either way.
@@kariannecrysler640 The entire "Solutrean Hypothesis" that Rupert brought up is based entirely on some stone tools found (in North America) that were similar to those found in western Europe. I have found no recent evidence to go any farther with that conjecture. Indeed, DNA research published in 2014 and 2015 explicitly (in the papers) counter the Solutrean conjectured connection to the Clovis people.
@@TheDanEdwards thank you Dan
Hi Dan, Rupert here. I will try to find my original source material, it was certainly not new and it is quite possible the data has been refined. DNA aside though, conceptually, the notion of transtlantic crossings in prehistory seems perfectly reasonable to me. All best R
@@ThePrehistoryGuys The real issue is, when we talk about "European DNA", we're talking about people who live in a Europe long after the Solutreans, who would be Western European Hunter-Gatherer ancestors. There is 16000 + years of evolution and mixing with EEF, SHG and other groups separating modern Europeans from any contribution the Solutreans could have made to American DNA. Adding to that is the fact that one Solutrean showing up with his Solutrean technology is sufficient to transfer the technology to America, without any significant DNA contribution at all. It didn't have to be a large colonization from Europe, just a few wide-ranging hunters.
Horrified to hear someone would dare sacrilegiously deface the Ring of Brodgar.
oh yes lots of propganda with archeolgy same with history at times