Hello folks: Some send speakers to Danny Now will Danny do the same with his gear! Ever do his own Canadian audio show tour. If he did I doubt that he'll be able to keep up with supply and demand. That's sad as cost will be just how many more times the price. 40 points new company to promote 60 points on top. Ride Easy
Danny Having multiple years in electronics I have 3 rigs in my house DACs, Tube PreAmps, Streamers, Network Switching All modified to run 12 Volt and 5 Volts. Yes everything you described about the sound is spot on. I'm Dallas one day I will make it by to see you . I consider You a legend in this Hobby I'm positive that my work has prefected running a system in this manner.
@@cruise2023 rabbit hole for some I guess. A friend is super into high end stuff, cables speakers, ect... but I'd hardly consider him a real audiophile after hearing the noise his system makes with the volume down. More like an extreme hi-fi type setup.
Cool setup! Jeff Rowland had been doing this for decades in Colorado springs and was able to sneak a listen back in the early 2000's. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks so much for going through this , I find it fascinating as I live 12v/solar/off grid . It really never occured to me I could have a top class system at home !
Nice meeting you at the Dallas Southwest Audiofest. I'm the OKC guy that sat in front of you at the YG Acoustics room while they were playing music from Dire Straits.
Danny all of this explains how all the little adjustments and crossover tweeks make a clear and immediate difference! Your system is very high resolution and resolving a ton of detail and is the reason all adjustments and tweeks are magnified in comparison to plain off the shelf electronics... where lot of resolution is just simply not there to begin with .
Your experience with the Mac Mini and running it off an external power source reminds me of Uptone Audio and their DC conversion kit for powering the Mini from a linear power supply. I use a Sonore ultraRendu streamer powered by an Uptone JS-2 LPS connected via i2s to a PS Audio Direcstream dac, and it gives my high-end vinyl setup a run for its money. Cheers and love your videos!
Impressive stuff as usual!... Most of the tube amps I build are for guitar. They are definitely not "critical listening" devices. However, I have been experimenting with DC power supplies for a few years. My goal was to save money and weight by not using big power transformers. It isn't easy to get clean power from a boost converter circuit. Especially when it's boosting to tube plate voltages. Supplies like that can generate their own type of noise, not to mention heat.
I use an iPad with a chord Hugo. Both give around 8hrs of internal battery when I’m up for some super critical listening. Results are pretty darn good for not too much money.
One if the nicest sounding amps i have is a JL audio one from my car. I tried it inside with a car battery and it was lively and rythemic and effortless. It is a class D as well. Class D power amps could be a great match for battery due to the efficiency. Tube class a on preamp, D on the powee.
@@JasonWW2000 XDM500/3 With the 2 x 75W running Focal Aria 906 + JL audio 10" w1 in custom sealed box enclosure. Installed in the car I used C6-650 components. I was surprised how good it sounded in the room. Stacking up real well to the Supernait 2. Ok not quite as musical as that but more lively and rythemic and amazing bass for what is not a big amp !
I also went off the grid. Just takes an LiFePO4 battery, a Victron charger, Giandel pure sine wave inverter and then a filter to remove any residuals in the power (Puritan 156). You can make your own "Stromtank" for a few hundred $.
1- use large ultracapitors 3400F and Ian Canada ucpure for power. The best power supply in the world. Lowest esr possible. Your bigger battery sounds better due to lower esr. Ultracapitors are the best in the world and charge 20x faster than a battery. 2- use audiolinux on a pc running on battery paralleled to ultracaps. Far better than stock Mac mini. FAR.
I noticed significant gains with the way my system sounded when I traced the wiring in my apartment to learn which outlets were on each circuit. With 10ft power cords, the source and amp were plugged into outlets that were about 15 ft apart. The two outlets in between were removed, wires pigtailed and cover plates installed.
I’m building up crossovers for the X-bravo kit and intend to use the same isolation technique with the components of the crossover. Crossover will be externally mounted. Components will sit along the speaker wires between the amp and the drivers.
Please try supercapacitors from Maxwell, XS or EATON. They not only balance the voltage, filtering out high frequencies, but they can provide instant electrons, through a physical reaction and not a chemical reaction, like batteries. They do not have much reserve, but they are supposed to be used with batteries, extending the batteries' lives because the big peaks of amperage draw will drain the supercaps and the batteries will only serve to charge the supercaps and keep reserve for longer sessions.
pretty interesting set up. AC line noise is a much bigger issue than many think. If a person looks at a scope you can all the harmonics (low and very high frequency) riding on top of and well above the 60 hrz main AC frequency. For years companies have been trying to filter it out to varying degrees of success. All this noise is one of the reasons aftermarket power cords can make such a big improvement contrary to what the naysayers chime in with. Likely not as quiet (low noise) as BAT power though. As the noise floor is lowered, resolution, detail and imaging greatly improve.
True, but all of this noise gets filtered out during conversion to DC by any and I literally mean any properly designed modern device, something that has been shown again and again by actual measurements made at Audio Science Review.
I have somewhere in the closet a Vinnie Rossi modded Teac chip amp. I think the batteries have died. One of these days I hope to get it to a shop to see if it can be revived. It has lead batteries as well, though Li batteries were still in the future when this mod was done.
Danny, two things. You mentioned that you at times use some chip amps. I have experimented with some low power chip amp boards and am impressed. Which chip amps are your favorites? Also interesting enough about the 12v Mac Mini. Now I refer to myself as "Sound for the regular guy." As I'm not high end. I came across an old 12v touch screen medical device. I installed Linux on it and connected a (low end) USB DAC to stream flac files. When I experimented running it off a battery, wow even with my low end chip amps and self made tube gear it was noticeable. I thought it was just my imagination, but maybe not after seeing this video!
I've experimentee with chip Amps and class a transistor amps and they all sound terrible to me. I can only live on tube Amps. I don't know what in an missing or maybe my ears don't match transistor sounds
Yes yes yes, good sound does NOT have to equate to big $! This mantra is what needs to echo throughout the community. Lets help folks stop getting hosed!
Really interesting. I've been been thinking about trying something similar on a much lower budget just powering a 15-20W class D amplifier and DAC running into some small speakers on a second office system. Or possibly my turntable and phono stage as they run on 12V and 18V DC respectively.
I have also taken my house off grid and running solar and a big battery bank which again supplies all my loads. The sound has never been better. Best investment as an audiophile ever.
@@RobertCookcx Even if he is running off the AC generated by the solar grid. It will be much less polluted than the one coming off the states grid coz of less amount of load in the house.
You guys gotta try taking your equipment outside. Even just using a Datyton DTA-1 running off of AA's it makes the sound so much better by removing acoustic problems. Also listening in an abandoned house would be fun. It was so scary the night in the abandoned house with my cheap equipment running the Home Deco speakers, risking thousands of dollars of equipment must be so much more thrilling.
Tube pre amps are the way to go. I run my monster solid state amps to drive my hungry speakers. It's a compromise, however, the music is so sweet. I just wish the tube life was as lengthy as solid state. Make sure you have several sets on stand by.
Good timing with this video, I have been looking at upgrading my equipment's power supplies lately including battery power. Can you be more specific on the "CC Charger" you use? Being able to keep the charger hooked up like you do greatly simplifies a battery powered system.
Funny on the Lithium batteries, I have had good luck using them on fishfinders. It seems to clean the picture up nicely. You just never know I guess, every thing is different
Yes, this has me puzzled. Did he mean using the battery while it was being charged? Lithium has special charging cycles that are very different from a lead acid battery. I assumed he meant just a lithium battery by itself. So I don't understand how there could be much difference. He also didn't say what type of lithium. There are many different types, I wonder if they tried all of them?
Really cool gear. My question Danny isnt there any power conditioner that works? While battery power is ok doesn't translate to all of us with lot of equipment that all plugs in.
I'd actually like to know what Gary and you discovered regarding the lithium batteries and why they didn't sound as good. I have a Virtue Audio Sensation that I'm using 2x12v 7ah LiFePo4 batteries with for the power supply. I've never used SLA batteries with it though. Only issue I have is the cheap SMART charger I'm using squeals once the batteries are fully charged so I have to disconnect with a switch when I want to use the amp. Thanks for mention the charger brand you use. I'll have to look into them.
Danny, couple of questions: 1) how do you connect the mac mini to the dac via i2s i.e. does the mac mini have an i2s output, and what type of i2s cable/connection do you use? 2) is your Dodd preamp with variable gain? what gain do you usually run it at?
The MacMini will recognize the DAC input and it will output an I2S signal through the USB output. My Dodd pre is not a variable gain. Mine has a unity gain output.
Gabster RUclips channel has DC power supplies for preamp and stereo amplifiers and Dax using super capacitors. He shows how to construct the kits on how to make everything and he does the Bild video to show you .
@@mfr58 you can use some of the low powered battery tubes that came from portable radio sets that were designed to use small batteries from back in the 40s and 50s and before. You make separate preamps that are extremely low power. I can literally run off of one or two regular 18 650 lithium ion batteries.. instead of the large carbon acid batteries or lead acid batteries that weighs several pounds from the 1940s. And you can even make power amplifiers out of battery specialty tubes that were for portable units with today’s battery technology it would be practical, and it is very easy to do .
Thanks, Danny. 2 questions...How can the lay-audiophile get off grid without your bespoke solutions? And, did you try inverting back to AC so that gear with IEC connectors could be used?
Danny can probably shed some light on this.....I have thought about using a portable battery pack like the Bluetti or Jackery units sold on Amazon. I think the issue is that you are stepping up the voltage of the battery pack to 120v, then stepping that 120 down to 12 volts (or even 5 volts) inside the audio component. Too much conversion of voltage probably results in extra noise.
This isn't necessarily anything new or groundbreaking. Jeff Rowland has been making battery-powered electronics since the mid 90s. Edge Amplifiers did around that time, too. However, the Dodd stuff is interesting because they were using tubes instead of solid state and it seems really reasonably priced. Jeff Rowland's Model 9s were 3 chassis per channel (one for the amp, one for the powers supply, and one for the batteries) and weighed about 600 pounds. They were also about $20k per pair, if I remember right. Thanks, as always, for the great content, Danny.
So a harbor freight battery tender which is a trickle charger and a 12volt 25 amp hour battery on one of these chinese mini amps. That accepts 12volts dc should sound better than an 80's 50watt amplifier that runs A/C?
The original Advent 300 receiver runs on 12VDC. It has a 12VDC jack on the back for it. So it could be used in cars. I've got one. You don't discuss how the 12-24VDC is turned into HV DC for the tubes. Multiple voltage doublers? Through AC conversion? Since the tubes can't be used before it is available, it can't be tube based. Being old, I remember physical vibrators to make tube radios work in cars.
Some cool stuff here but as far as running everything off batteries, you can achieve the same effect by using an online UPS, which converts the AC power to DC and then back to AC to make it perfectly stable. These are used for electronics that are ultra sensitive to inconsistent power, like medical equipment.
I’ve heard a few people say lithium batteries powering audio equipment do not sound good (just as Dodd said in his experimenting). He said Dodd figured out why - would be interesting.
Wondering what format you rip cds to to play on mac mini? And do you buy digital downloads like from hdtracks etc.? What sounds best? I'm guessing you don't do streaming.
I've been looking for a system like this for a few years now, to no avail. What were the issues using Lithium batteries? I have 4 100amp/hr LiFePo batteries I could use for a 12v off-grid audio system. I've thought about using car audio equipment, but the specs on amps seems to be all about volume/power and not about sound quality. Short of taking an electronics course to build my own 12v system, do you have any recommendations?
The lithium batteries (LiFePo included) have a battery management system onboard. From my understanding, the circuitry is fairly cheap and digitally controls the input and output with the main goal being to protect the cells themselves. Lead acid batteries are a fairly “dumb” electron transfer chemical reaction, so when you apply juice at one end, the electrons move one way, and when you demand power, they flow the other way. If you run a lead acid battery all the way down (within reason), it will typically recharge. Excessive discharge on a lithium battery severely reduces the life span. Some smart cookie could probably design a better BMS circuit that smooths ripple and delivers something similar to lead acid.
@@byrnemcneill question, I was under the impression that the BMS is only for charging and equalizing the cells. If the batteries are full and you remove the charger you and up only with cells, nothing more. Or am I wrong?
Hi Danny. Please, please, please answer this one question (built a SS pre-amp a few years ago using +/- 12 Volts with two sealed lead acid batteries). What battery charger do you use that does not affect the sound even when hooked up? Also, could you send a link where I can get it?
Very interesting, what I don't understand is how the c-tec which is on the grid is not introducing grid noise back into the system??? What have I missed???
@@dannyrichie9743 my system is completely off the grid too, I use regular, lead-acid/ calcium, car batteries up to 75 amphours, I use c-tec charger too but I did notice a degradation of sound when the charger was left on. So I've been just listening and recharging later. That experiment was long ago, though. Perhaps I'll try again, based on your words.
Danny, what disc player do you use? I'm only interested in music playback, and you have my wheels turning now, but I have around 600 cd's that I would truly love to hear for the 'first time' if you get my meaning.
I think you are like me that prefer to use analog volume, digital volume preamps convert analog to digital to process the volume control and after convert digital to analog, in that process the sound loose nirvana, that's why I prefer to have a preamp with a excellent analog potentiometer
Danny, guys... I have underground wiring from the city so my situation might not be as precarious as some folks. I can't, at this time, go off the grid. Do you have any bang for the buck AC line improvements for my DAC, tube pre-amp and my amps. I have both an old Counterpoint hybrid amp and some little EL 84 tube amps.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thank you Danny. I aspire to that as the wife and finances allow. In the mean time are there any DC filters that are an improvement ? Those iFi DC purifiers , for example ?
Living right in the middle of a big city my ac noise has gotten so bad I can barely listen with my system anymore. I have no idea what the heck is happening but basically 4 out 5 times its unlistenable. Even past midnight! ;(
Once Audiophiles and Home Theater Enthusiast discover this Tesla Power Wall sales will go thru the ROOF!, I would recommend that Magico, Wilson and Focal get their sales team on it and become Tesla Power Wall disruptors. The Tesla Powerwall is a rechargeable lithium-ion battery stationary home energy storage product manufactured by Tesla Energy. You mentioned there where or are issues with lithium-ion hopefully they can resolve them.
Hello, I recently started contemplating using a computer UPS to run my small gear. Do you think that a product like cyberpower sine wave battery backup can do the trick to eliminate the noise from the power source. I recently bought a LPSU and the change was dramatic to my headphone amp and dac. So I was wandering if a near perfect sine wave would have a positive impact on the overall system?
Or running a “standard” pre-amp and amp off a pure sine wave inverter and a 12 or 24 battery? Not sure how much noise that inverter would have. Maybe someone could chime in.
My experience with C-tec chargers are that they are extremely noicy. Do you use them connected, turned on, while listening to music, or are C-tec shut off then?
Pretty much every modern desktop computer (mac mini is a desktop not a laptop) runs mostly on 12 Volt, AC (120/220V) into powersuply DC 12V from PSU into components (there are some 3 and 5V rails too but those are barely used). Really nothing special about the 12V thing, it's normal and has been for many many years. These days there are also lots of mini PCs on the market (the better ones start at 200$). I actually have a mini PC right next to me here with a 12V 30W power suply. I guess I could get a better quality adapter than the one it came with. The 19V thing with laptops is just because of safety certifications (to stay under 20V).
We tried PC based solutions too. The little MacMini ate them up. I am not sure as to all of the specifics, and I am not a Mac guy. I would much rather use a PC.
@@dannyrichie9743 sure, might be, I didn't really test it. My comment was mostly about the 12V thing you said. I used to be a DJ though, that was all Mac. I think for three main reasons: ease of use, stability (extremely important as a DJ) and better audio processing. Not sure this is all still true today. I am all out PC these days, it has come a long way. But I can believe a Mac mini might be the better streamer.
I have a question: how does off the grid with batteries compare to a power regenerator by PS audio? They claim that it generates a perfect sine wave and clears up the 'dirt' of the power grid with a low impedance.
I love my Dodd Audio amp. I miss Gary, he was an amazing guy. RIP
I heard Danny’s rig. It’s the best I have heard. He is on the right path and it’s great of him to share
Hello folks:
Some send speakers to Danny
Now will Danny do the same with his gear!
Ever do his own Canadian audio show tour.
If he did I doubt that he'll be able to keep up with supply and demand. That's sad as cost will be just how many more times the price. 40 points new company to promote 60 points on top.
Ride Easy
Danny
Having multiple years in electronics I have 3 rigs in my house DACs, Tube PreAmps, Streamers, Network Switching All modified to run 12 Volt and 5 Volts.
Yes everything you described about the sound is spot on. I'm Dallas one day I will make it by to see you .
I consider You a legend in this Hobby I'm positive that my work has prefected running a system in this manner.
Danny could you tell us more about Mr Dodd (Dodd Audio), and the history you shared. Have a good day thanks.
Like you said a lot of people have been waiting on this one for a while. Thank you.
Great to see finally and to understand the history. Would love to hear that rig and understand what its all about.
Was just there on Monday and was listening to Danny's rig......off the charts!! Another level...wow!
This is the point where I realized - I will never be "that much" of an audiophile.
Yes over the top, never ending looking for perfection, a rabbit hole that achieves nothing. I now after many yrs listen to music and not the gear.
@@cruise2023 rabbit hole for some I guess. A friend is super into high end stuff, cables speakers, ect... but I'd hardly consider him a real audiophile after hearing the noise his system makes with the volume down. More like an extreme hi-fi type setup.
@@v12alpine you have to take care of the big problems before you take care of the small ones.
@@DodgyBrothersEngineering Right? It seems he's done it backwards.
One of your most unusual videos to date. Very interesting.
Cool setup! Jeff Rowland had been doing this for decades in Colorado springs and was able to sneak a listen back in the early 2000's. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks so much for going through this , I find it fascinating as I live 12v/solar/off grid . It really never occured to me I could have a top class system at home !
Nice meeting you at the Dallas Southwest Audiofest. I'm the OKC guy that sat in front of you at the YG Acoustics room while they were playing music from Dire Straits.
Danny all of this explains how all the little adjustments and crossover tweeks make a clear and immediate difference!
Your system is very high resolution and resolving a ton of detail and is the reason all adjustments and tweeks are magnified in comparison to plain off the shelf electronics... where lot of resolution is just simply not there to begin with .
Every time I listen to Danny explain these things, I'm suddenly reminded how dumb I am.....
Awesome system. Would love to hear it one day.
Wow, now that sounds awesome!!! Great video Danny!
Your experience with the Mac Mini and running it off an external power source reminds me of Uptone Audio and their DC conversion kit for powering the Mini from a linear power supply. I use a Sonore ultraRendu streamer powered by an Uptone JS-2 LPS connected via i2s to a PS Audio Direcstream dac, and it gives my high-end vinyl setup a run for its money. Cheers and love your videos!
Great episode. More pls!
Loved this video. Would like to learn more about your History and Dodd Audio. Has anyone or will anyone Carry on with Gary's designs?
Thanks for sharing Danny!
Impressive stuff as usual!... Most of the tube amps I build are for guitar. They are definitely not "critical listening" devices. However, I have been experimenting with DC power supplies for a few years. My goal was to save money and weight by not using big power transformers. It isn't easy to get clean power from a boost converter circuit. Especially when it's boosting to tube plate voltages. Supplies like that can generate their own type of noise, not to mention heat.
Very cool rig Danny! 👍
I use an iPad with a chord Hugo. Both give around 8hrs of internal battery when I’m up for some super critical listening.
Results are pretty darn good for not too much money.
One if the nicest sounding amps i have is a JL audio one from my car. I tried it inside with a car battery and it was lively and rythemic and effortless. It is a class D as well. Class D power amps could be a great match for battery due to the efficiency. Tube class a on preamp, D on the powee.
Which model amp are you referring to? Is it one of their older slash models?
One of the best class-D amps I listened to is tripath ("class-T"). Tube warmth with almost class-D efficiency.
Try the little TPA 3110 ,
Loads of options running Class D amps off battery, I've been doing it for years, plus plenty of Dac boards that run off 12v .
@@JasonWW2000 XDM500/3 With the 2 x 75W running Focal Aria 906 + JL audio 10" w1 in custom sealed box enclosure. Installed in the car I used C6-650 components. I was surprised how good it sounded in the room. Stacking up real well to the Supernait 2. Ok not quite as musical as that but more lively and rythemic and amazing bass for what is not a big amp !
I also went off the grid. Just takes an LiFePO4 battery, a Victron charger, Giandel pure sine wave inverter and then a filter to remove any residuals in the power (Puritan 156). You can make your own "Stromtank" for a few hundred $.
1- use large ultracapitors 3400F and Ian Canada ucpure for power. The best power supply in the world. Lowest esr possible. Your bigger battery sounds better due to lower esr. Ultracapitors are the best in the world and charge 20x faster than a battery.
2- use audiolinux on a pc running on battery paralleled to ultracaps. Far better than stock Mac mini. FAR.
I noticed significant gains with the way my system sounded when I traced the wiring in my apartment to learn which outlets were on each circuit. With 10ft power cords, the source and amp were plugged into outlets that were about 15 ft apart. The two outlets in between were removed, wires pigtailed and cover plates installed.
I’m building up crossovers for the X-bravo kit and intend to use the same isolation technique with the components of the crossover. Crossover will be externally mounted. Components will sit along the speaker wires between the amp and the drivers.
Awsome stuff thanks for sharing
Excellent. I run my dac on a battery and rest of system through a power regenerator. Thank you
That is cool. The battery charger for Corvette also keeps your sound,sounding, sound.
Please try supercapacitors from Maxwell, XS or EATON. They not only balance the voltage, filtering out high frequencies, but they can provide instant electrons, through a physical reaction and not a chemical reaction, like batteries. They do not have much reserve, but they are supposed to be used with batteries, extending the batteries' lives because the big peaks of amperage draw will drain the supercaps and the batteries will only serve to charge the supercaps and keep reserve for longer sessions.
Our batter buffers work a little bit the same way.
Ultracapitors Danny are far better than batteries.
12V supercapacitors are used for current peaks in highend car audio.
pretty interesting set up. AC line noise is a much bigger issue than many think. If a person looks at a scope you can all the harmonics (low and very high frequency) riding on top of and well above the 60 hrz main AC frequency. For years companies have been trying to filter it out to varying degrees of success. All this noise is one of the reasons aftermarket power cords can make such a big improvement contrary to what the naysayers chime in with. Likely not as quiet (low noise) as BAT power though. As the noise floor is lowered, resolution, detail and imaging greatly improve.
True, but all of this noise gets filtered out during conversion to DC by any and I literally mean any properly designed modern device, something that has been shown again and again by actual measurements made at Audio Science Review.
@@SteelBlueVision If all the noise got filtered out then BAT power should not sound any better...............
I have somewhere in the closet a Vinnie Rossi modded Teac chip amp. I think the batteries have died. One of these days I hope to get it to a shop to see if it can be revived. It has lead batteries as well, though Li batteries were still in the future when this mod was done.
Vinnie was a master of off grid approach.
Danny, two things. You mentioned that you at times use some chip amps. I have experimented with some low power chip amp boards and am impressed. Which chip amps are your favorites? Also interesting enough about the 12v Mac Mini. Now I refer to myself as "Sound for the regular guy." As I'm not high end. I came across an old 12v touch screen medical device. I installed Linux on it and connected a (low end) USB DAC to stream flac files. When I experimented running it off a battery, wow even with my low end chip amps and self made tube gear it was noticeable. I thought it was just my imagination, but maybe not after seeing this video!
I've experimentee with chip Amps and class a transistor amps and they all sound terrible to me. I can only live on tube Amps. I don't know what in an missing or maybe my ears don't match transistor sounds
Very very cool! Would love to hear it someday, preferably at my house. Lol
Yes yes yes, good sound does NOT have to equate to big $! This mantra is what needs to echo throughout the community. Lets help folks stop getting hosed!
Agree about the southwest audiofest.
Amazing!
Really interesting. I've been been thinking about trying something similar on a much lower budget just powering a 15-20W class D amplifier and DAC running into some small speakers on a second office system. Or possibly my turntable and phono stage as they run on 12V and 18V DC respectively.
I have also taken my house off grid and running solar and a big battery bank which again supplies all my loads. The sound has never been better. Best investment as an audiophile ever.
That just moves the source to the solar inverters though. He is running ing pure DC and uses this wizard electronics.gurus circuitry.
@@RobertCookcxNot necessarily, he could isolate a smaller battery just to run his audio system while the main battery is charging during the day.
@@RobertCookcx Even if he is running off the AC generated by the solar grid. It will be much less polluted than the one coming off the states grid coz of less amount of load in the house.
The bit that would be useful to know is how Gary turned 24Vdc into HT for the tubes without creating switching noise.....
Agree 100%
He was a really sharp guy.
Clearly it did if it took out the camera!
@@Oggycrew I agree. It cannot be very quiet (RF-wise) if it messed up the camera from that far away.
@@danmarjenka6361 These are dead quiet and don't produce any RF noise. I will check this out and see what was freaking out the camera.
You guys gotta try taking your equipment outside. Even just using a Datyton DTA-1 running off of AA's it makes the sound so much better by removing acoustic problems. Also listening in an abandoned house would be fun. It was so scary the night in the abandoned house with my cheap equipment running the Home Deco speakers, risking thousands of dollars of equipment must be so much more thrilling.
Tube pre amps are the way to go. I run my monster solid state amps to drive my hungry speakers. It's a compromise, however, the music is so sweet. I just wish the tube life was as lengthy as solid state. Make sure you have several sets on stand by.
100% agree. One of my best systems was a Sonic Frontiers tube pre, running a Bryston 4B ST.
That was excellent
Good timing with this video, I have been looking at upgrading my equipment's power supplies lately including battery power. Can you be more specific on the "CC Charger" you use? Being able to keep the charger hooked up like you do greatly simplifies a battery powered system.
For sure Danny's videos are completely BS free. great stuff man
For sure ! A very trusted guy !
Funny on the Lithium batteries, I have had good luck using them on fishfinders. It seems to clean the picture up nicely. You just never know I guess, every thing is different
Yes, this has me puzzled. Did he mean using the battery while it was being charged? Lithium has special charging cycles that are very different from a lead acid battery.
I assumed he meant just a lithium battery by itself. So I don't understand how there could be much difference.
He also didn't say what type of lithium. There are many different types, I wonder if they tried all of them?
Most Dacs with the Wolfson chips sound great.
mission electronics in the uk used a battery powered pre amp in their 776/777 pre/power combo in the late 70's early 80's
I'd be interested in the actual measured performance of such a system.
Better yet, hear it.
Really cool gear. My question Danny isnt there any power conditioner that works? While battery power is ok doesn't translate to all of us with lot of equipment that all plugs in.
There are good conditioners out there. We use a P.I. Audio Uber buss and we use a Dodd Audio balanced power supply.
I'd actually like to know what Gary and you discovered regarding the lithium batteries and why they didn't sound as good.
I have a Virtue Audio Sensation that I'm using 2x12v 7ah LiFePo4 batteries with for the power supply. I've never used SLA batteries with it though. Only issue I have is the cheap SMART charger I'm using squeals once the batteries are fully charged so I have to disconnect with a switch when I want to use the amp. Thanks for mention the charger brand you use. I'll have to look into them.
The camera seemed to be impacted by the inverter noise.
Loads of options running Class D amps off battery, I've been doing it for years, plus plenty of Dac boards that run off 12v .
Danny, couple of questions: 1) how do you connect the mac mini to the dac via i2s i.e. does the mac mini have an i2s output, and what type of i2s cable/connection do you use? 2) is your Dodd preamp with variable gain? what gain do you usually run it at?
The MacMini will recognize the DAC input and it will output an I2S signal through the USB output. My Dodd pre is not a variable gain. Mine has a unity gain output.
@@dannyrichie9743 hmmmm... what device will help getting the I2S signal over USB ???
@@tango_gru Amanero makes an interface module.
Gabster RUclips channel has DC power supplies for preamp and stereo amplifiers and Dax using super capacitors.
He shows how to construct the kits on how to make everything and he does the Bild video to show you .
Yes you need capacitors in the PS.
Batteris are aparentli too slow.
Yes, but with tubes we need to find a practical way to get HT quietly.....
@@mfr58 tubes require bigger batteries much much bigger
@@coldfinger459sub0 That's why I said practical....
@@mfr58 you can use some of the low powered battery tubes that came from portable radio sets that were designed to use small batteries from back in the 40s and 50s and before.
You make separate preamps that are extremely low power. I can literally run off of one or two regular 18 650 lithium ion batteries.. instead of the large carbon acid batteries or lead acid batteries that weighs several pounds from the 1940s.
And you can even make power amplifiers out of battery specialty tubes that were for portable units with today’s battery technology it would be practical, and it is very easy to do .
Thanks, Danny. 2 questions...How can the lay-audiophile get off grid without your bespoke solutions? And, did you try inverting back to AC so that gear with IEC connectors could be used?
Danny can probably shed some light on this.....I have thought about using a portable battery pack like the Bluetti or Jackery units sold on Amazon. I think the issue is that you are stepping up the voltage of the battery pack to 120v, then stepping that 120 down to 12 volts (or even 5 volts) inside the audio component. Too much conversion of voltage probably results in extra noise.
This isn't necessarily anything new or groundbreaking. Jeff Rowland has been making battery-powered electronics since the mid 90s. Edge Amplifiers did around that time, too. However, the Dodd stuff is interesting because they were using tubes instead of solid state and it seems really reasonably priced. Jeff Rowland's Model 9s were 3 chassis per channel (one for the amp, one for the powers supply, and one for the batteries) and weighed about 600 pounds. They were also about $20k per pair, if I remember right. Thanks, as always, for the great content, Danny.
"Cheaper than a power chord"
Word
So a harbor freight battery tender which is a trickle charger and a 12volt 25 amp hour battery on one of these chinese mini amps. That accepts 12volts dc should sound better than an 80's 50watt amplifier that runs A/C?
Ooh yes, battery powered ftw! Sutherland had a few battery powered phono stages
This reminds me of Paul from ps audio from his power transformers and power conditioners that company provides.
The original Advent 300 receiver runs on 12VDC. It has a 12VDC jack on the back for it. So it could be used in cars. I've got one.
You don't discuss how the 12-24VDC is turned into HV DC for the tubes. Multiple voltage doublers? Through AC conversion? Since the tubes can't be used before it is available, it can't be tube based.
Being old, I remember physical vibrators to make tube radios work in cars.
What’s the output impedance of those tube amps? And does it drastically change your speaker response?
Cool system.
Some cool stuff here but as far as running everything off batteries, you can achieve the same effect by using an online UPS, which converts the AC power to DC and then back to AC to make it perfectly stable. These are used for electronics that are ultra sensitive to inconsistent power, like medical equipment.
Unfortunately those devices tend to limit current.
@@dannyrichie9743 How much do you need? A ~$1500 unit can flow something like 25 amps if my math is correct.
@@dylanbond1627 It isn't so much as what they are rated at continuous, but what they do to instantaneous peaks.
I’ve heard a few people say lithium batteries powering audio equipment do not sound good (just as Dodd said in his experimenting). He said Dodd figured out why - would be interesting.
Wondering what format you rip cds to to play on mac mini? And do you buy digital downloads like from hdtracks etc.? What sounds best? I'm guessing you don't do streaming.
I rip straight from the CD to an AIFF format.
Nice T shirt
Hey danny my dac makes noise from the case like the transformer when i use a battery and power inverter 🤷🏼♂️on it
Its the invertor, you need a dac that runs on dc.
Wow, this is just amazing. Thanks so much for sharing this with us. :)
drooling
Would be cool to see how you modded the mac mini... Any diy instructions out there?
Eric from db Audio labs is the expert in that department.
@@dannyrichie9743 DB audio labs website seems to be hosted on an old gen computer... its loading really slow.
I've been looking for a system like this for a few years now, to no avail. What were the issues using Lithium batteries? I have 4 100amp/hr LiFePo batteries I could use for a 12v off-grid audio system. I've thought about using car audio equipment, but the specs on amps seems to be all about volume/power and not about sound quality. Short of taking an electronics course to build my own 12v system, do you have any recommendations?
The lithium batteries (LiFePo included) have a battery management system onboard. From my understanding, the circuitry is fairly cheap and digitally controls the input and output with the main goal being to protect the cells themselves.
Lead acid batteries are a fairly “dumb” electron transfer chemical reaction, so when you apply juice at one end, the electrons move one way, and when you demand power, they flow the other way.
If you run a lead acid battery all the way down (within reason), it will typically recharge. Excessive discharge on a lithium battery severely reduces the life span.
Some smart cookie could probably design a better BMS circuit that smooths ripple and delivers something similar to lead acid.
Regarding charging and discharging lead-acid and LiFePO4 batteries the opposite od what you stated is actually the case.
@@byrnemcneill
@@byrnemcneill question, I was under the impression that the BMS is only for charging and equalizing the cells. If the batteries are full and you remove the charger you and up only with cells, nothing more. Or am I wrong?
I'm curious how you're getting i2s out of the mini. Did you tap into the internal DAC chip?
It will communicate with the DAC input to send the I2S direct signal through the USB output.
Hi Danny. Please, please, please answer this one question (built a SS pre-amp a few years ago using +/- 12 Volts with two sealed lead acid batteries). What battery charger do you use that does not affect the sound even when hooked up? Also, could you send a link where I can get it?
C-Tek chargers.
Thanks!
Danny, maybe you could show your rig at the small yearly show in Dallas.
I have many times.
See you there next month or so.
Very interesting, what I don't understand is how the c-tec which is on the grid is not introducing grid noise back into the system??? What have I missed???
I don't know, but the trickle charge system is very quiet.
It is about the impedance. What little noise ctec makes is sunk in to the battery like in a black hole
@@dannyrichie9743 my system is completely off the grid too, I use regular, lead-acid/ calcium, car batteries up to 75 amphours, I use c-tec charger too but I did notice a degradation of sound when the charger was left on. So I've been just listening and recharging later. That experiment was long ago, though. Perhaps I'll try again, based on your words.
@@zaldam ??? batteries are not capacitors. Slow-ish chemical process vs order of magnitudes faster charge transfers.
Danny, what disc player do you use? I'm only interested in music playback, and you have my wheels turning now, but I have around 600 cd's that I would truly love to hear for the 'first time' if you get my meaning.
I only use the original CD to burn it to my external hard drive. I never play from the CD.
Check out NAT Magnetostat battery pre amp
Hey Danny , Whats the year of manufacturing of your Mac Mini ? Any idea about the exact model ??
I found it after reading other comments. It’s a Mac mini 2014 with snow leopard OS.
I think you are like me that prefer to use analog volume, digital volume preamps convert analog to digital to process the volume control and after convert digital to analog, in that process the sound loose nirvana, that's why I prefer to have a preamp with a excellent analog potentiometer
Do you have a pair of Brutes, or Bully’s in your system to listen to once in a while for something different?
I do, or at least I did. Ron (New Record Day) has them right now.
Danny, guys... I have underground wiring from the city so my situation might not be as precarious as some folks. I can't, at this time, go off the grid. Do you have any bang for the buck AC line improvements for my DAC, tube pre-amp and my amps. I have both an old Counterpoint hybrid amp and some little EL 84 tube amps.
If you can set a battery in your floor somewhere you can be off the grid with any gear designed to run on 12 volts.
@@dannyrichie9743 Thank you Danny. I aspire to that as the wife and finances allow. In the mean time are there any DC filters that are an improvement ? Those iFi DC purifiers , for example ?
Living right in the middle of a big city my ac noise has gotten so bad I can barely listen with my system anymore. I have no idea what the heck is happening but basically 4 out 5 times its unlistenable. Even past midnight! ;(
I NEED to know why the lithium didn’t work out.
I’ve used Lifepo4 batteries and it sounded better than mains. I’m left wondering.
It has something to do with the output impedance and the electronics built into the battery.
I know of a Swiss audio “company “ that uses battery power, it’s called audio consulting.
Very interesting Danny- any plans to produce a similar setup for sale to the public?
Maybe one of these days....
what model mac mini are you using?
I think mine is a 2014 model running Snow Leopard. The older ones allow more to be shut down that is not being used and have the best sound.
Once Audiophiles and Home Theater Enthusiast discover this Tesla Power Wall sales will go thru the ROOF!, I would recommend that Magico, Wilson and Focal get their sales team on it and become Tesla Power Wall disruptors. The Tesla Powerwall is a rechargeable lithium-ion battery stationary home energy storage product manufactured by Tesla Energy. You mentioned there where or are issues with lithium-ion hopefully they can resolve them.
Normal pc and laptops internally - 5 and 12 volts 🤓🇩🇰 19 volts is only to be able to have more watts thru to cable
if its unobtanium gear with potted circuits made by the deceased, does it really exist?
So what were you looking at during the video? Maybe the amp is existing and we all are not?? 😳😶🌫️
"When the audiophile is ready....the amp will appear."
Hello,
I recently started contemplating using a computer UPS to run my small gear. Do you think that a product like cyberpower sine wave battery backup can do the trick to eliminate the noise from the power source.
I recently bought a LPSU and the change was dramatic to my headphone amp and dac. So I was wandering if a near perfect sine wave would have a positive impact on the overall system?
I don't think those batteries are large enough for the task. Plus big AGB batteries are pretty cheap.
Is dodd audio still available for their amp and preamps
Thanks for sharing, Danny. What era mac mini? What model? Thanks!
Have you heard of anyone running a system off solar panels? How would that be set up?
Or running a “standard” pre-amp and amp off a pure sine wave inverter and a 12 or 24 battery? Not sure how much noise that inverter would have. Maybe someone could chime in.
My experience with C-tec chargers are that they are extremely noicy. Do you use them connected, turned on, while listening to music, or are C-tec shut off then?
It depends on which model of charger you use. The larger ones can be noisy, and the smaller ones can be dead quiet.
Pretty much every modern desktop computer (mac mini is a desktop not a laptop) runs mostly on 12 Volt, AC (120/220V) into powersuply DC 12V from PSU into components (there are some 3 and 5V rails too but those are barely used). Really nothing special about the 12V thing, it's normal and has been for many many years. These days there are also lots of mini PCs on the market (the better ones start at 200$). I actually have a mini PC right next to me here with a 12V 30W power suply. I guess I could get a better quality adapter than the one it came with.
The 19V thing with laptops is just because of safety certifications (to stay under 20V).
We tried PC based solutions too. The little MacMini ate them up. I am not sure as to all of the specifics, and I am not a Mac guy. I would much rather use a PC.
@@dannyrichie9743 sure, might be, I didn't really test it. My comment was mostly about the 12V thing you said.
I used to be a DJ though, that was all Mac. I think for three main reasons: ease of use, stability (extremely important as a DJ) and better audio processing. Not sure this is all still true today. I am all out PC these days, it has come a long way. But I can believe a Mac mini might be the better streamer.
I have a question: how does off the grid with batteries compare to a power regenerator by PS audio? They claim that it generates a perfect sine wave and clears up the 'dirt' of the power grid with a low impedance.
I have not A/B'ed them, but I have heard that the regenerators tend to limit current.
What did you think of the R2R dacs?
Some of them are really good.