@@peacedog315 I live on the west coast of vancouver island (Tofino/Ucluelet) and this describes my town exactly. In the 70s it used to be pretty lawless and full of hippies living on the beach, creating communes in the forest, protesting logging, etc. Now we get over a million visitors a year to a region of 8000 people. Now nimbyism, anti-van life, and local elitism dominate the town mindset. There is still a strong environmental flair though.
I've been surfing for 15 years from Australia to Brasil, Bali to Marrocco and of course Spain, France and Portugal. Most of the surfers are assholes. Everywhere the same. Never feel the tension, bad karma or even heard a bad word in other sport as on surfing. I'm feeling sadder in every session I take and I'm not very optimistic about the future of this sport.
I think we will find as upcoming generations spend more time in the water & older generations less, this will become less of a mindset as we are used to surfing with larger crowds of new faces, in fact, a majority of my closest mates I met in the lineup
the main problem in my opinion is, locals dont apply etiquette but expect non locals to do so. they snake everyone and since they are usually outnumbered non locals dont dare to have problems with locals. point breaks are the worst example of what localism looks like. there is no aloha spirit left in the sport, only greed and arrogance.
I think it's up to us to show that aloha to that asshole and remind them that the newbies are out here for the same reason (for the absolute stoke)... Just remind them that this person is new and its up to us to teach rather than berate.. idk that's my opinion. Even as a person who has been surfing for as long as I can remember I run into localism up and down the coast of cali and I just remind them politely that were all here for the same stoke and there is no need for anger or fear out in the ocean before someone gets hurt.
Yup, the locals gather out there in groups, once one goes in they all go in cause they have little dicks. If they paddle out and none of their friends are out they put their tale between their legs and obey lineup rules.
That's laughable, at least in San Diego. These 30-year old Covid kooks have no idea what etiquette is and when you try explain get all butt hurt. I've been surfing 25 years and I can count the times I have purposely burned someone on both hands. I was out last week at a reef break and was catching my last wave in when these kooks paddle out of their soft-tops and one blatantly burns me. I call him off the wave with a little 'hey bro'. He falls and accidently shoots his board out at my face. No big deal right? I thought since he ruined my last wave I would catch another one in. Guess what? Him and his kook fuck friend start cussing at me about why did I call him off since he 'was going so good'. I fucking lost it. I have NEVER had someone burn me then cuss me out for calling him off. I told him I will burn him for the rest of the day, and will continue to do so whenever I see him again. The problem is that back in the day (before everyone sued the shit out of each other) IF you said that to a local, then you were going to fight. Period. If you didn't want to fight you might catch a couple slaps and that would be it. Now everyone barks, nothing happens, and the passive aggressive cunts just burn each other. If you're new/learning, surf with modesty and don't fucking burn locals!
I've been looking for a way to offer a little praise to a 40-ish surfer with a heavy English accent who was surfing my home break on the east coast of Florida. He had a young grom steal one of his waves followed by a 20-ish fellow who stole the next wave. He paddled over to both of them and politely and calmly yet firmly explain that was his wave and why it was his wave. I missed the opportunity to paddle over and commend him. Kudos to you.
idk man the lovely thing about east florida is when it's good you can go pretty much where ever you want 300 feet in either direction and have a wave to yourself if you aren't going to like one 5 super popular spots.
@@alvatrous same here in NC especially here in ocean isle but mostly we go to wrightsville beach or Carolina beach then the normal 4 hour drive to the OBX once a month
As an adopted son of Bondi, my favourites are the ones who cruise out back on their longboard, grab the best wave by sitting 15m further out (because they can on their 10fter), then paddle straight back out to the exact same spot and catch the very next set wave, over and over again the entire time they're out there..
I have this same issue in Laguna Beach, CA! I really struggle with localism and STRONG entitlement that comes with the affluence of the area. People who appear to be beginner/intermediate will be on large foamies sitting way out back and going for every way. No regard for others in the line up who patiently wait and share.
@@wyatt5001 Where precisely in Laguna do you see this? The only place I can think of where people on large foamies hog the waves is at Anita Street, where instructors give lessons. Anita Street is recognized locally as the semi-official spot for beginners and lessons, thus etiquette is neither expected nor enforced. Locals avoid Anita Street for the most part.
That's why you can't put your identity on being a "surfer", they take it too seriously and it stops being fun. If you don't get paid to surf just relax and have fun.
@@marcod9626 maybe the problem is people like you. They invent a standard to their convenience of who is a surfer and who is not, to later feel more important and with more rights than others. I've been surfing since I was 13 years old and I'm 37 if that makes me a surfer or not according to your standards, I don't really care. Just relax and have fun...
As I've gotten older, at crowded/localized lineups I set my expectations pretty low and almost always have a great session. When I expect a great session, I always undershoot.
That's the surfer's Murphy the slow man I just I just like hope hope that I would catch a wave and I don't really care if people are going and cutting in front of me and picking up speed I'm just thankful I can at least catch one wave on a good day cause I live so far away from the beach now
Gotta make that first wave count. If locals see you can surf they usually give you no trouble unless you're paddling for everything. Letting a non-local take a good wave is easier to swallow if they don't waste it. Also if you're at a spot where you aren't a local just sit under the main pack and take the ones that slide under them.
I hesitated to watch this video because I really enjoy your content but localism is a topic I'm really passionate about. As usual you did a good job of talking through it although I will say you were maybe overly positive towards the concept which seems to be a result of the fact that you, at some point in your life, were a "local." As someone who didn't have the opportunity to begin surfing until my mid 20's and spend the majority of my 20's landlocked the idea of localism has always perturbed me. A local is someone who is lucky enough to live near a wave that they can surf it everyday, me on the other hand had to travel over 2 hours to surf. Both of us are there because we love surfing so why should the person who is able to surf it more be given special privilege's over someone who has to invest more time and money to enjoy the same hobby? Also there are tons of videos and descriptions of surf etiquette and I think this is a great concept. But localism introduces a double standard to that set of rules. Imagine in driving had the same theory applied and people who travelled local roads more often didn't have to obey traffic signals if they thought the car across from them was from our of state. It's an absurd comparison but it shows some of the logical flaws of the concept and how this double standard can create dangerous situations. Now think of catching waves as currency and apply the concept. People who get a specific wave more often should be given priority over people who get that wave less often? This creates a disparity of wealth and increases not only the wave counts but the skill gap between locals and people who have to travel for surf making it harder to "impress a local by catching a good wave" which you suggested as a method to win over locals in your video. Luckily I'm in my 30's now and moved to the coast for the first time in my life a few months ago but since moving I've been called more than a few rude names by grouchy old men, even when following standard surf etiquette. The combination of these two ways of experiencing surfing have left me with little respect for the concept of localism. Hopefully there are more positive things going on elsewhere. Hopefully I'm not coming off argumentative here, this is just topic I have put a lot of thought into and think there needs to be more conversation about.
Its about putting in time at your new break...showing face and consistently paddling out good or bad conditions. U will get better that way and start to earn ur time. The grumpy old men been there for 30 or 40 yrs so u gonna have to understand that. Your car and currency analogies dont relate to surfing.
@@joshuamills7633 I think it's hard to understand if you've been lucky enough to have a local break and vice versa. But in the end you sound like you are respectful to anyone who paddles out as long as they return the favor which is how it should be. The negative side of localism, feeling entitled to waves regardless of etiquette or being rude to someone because you don't recognize their face, are the things that need to go. As for my specific circumstance I know there are only 2 or 3 people that surf who were born and raised here, the rest (including grouchy old man) are transplants just like me.
@@rksnote9635 Not going to waste time arguing over the internet but your generalizations don't apply to my circumstance. I think if you've been lucky enough to have a home break it's probably hard to understand and vice versa and we'll leave it at that. Good luck finding waves!
Every spot has a hierarchy which depends on who is in the water. locals that live near by as you put it tend to be in the water more therefore they're usually higher on the dominance hierarchy. As you show face and get better you will move up. This is everywhere in the world my friend. Also etiquette will be different at every spot because it's dictated by the people who spend the most time in the water. Essentially the culture of each spot is built around the people. There is no one size fits all etiquette. When you paddle out say hello and give respect to people who have been there longer than you. It's really simple. I say this after moving to the Hawaiian Islands and working my way up the pecking order for the last 4 years. I hope this helps. Thanks for reading my rant.
I agree, by I'm also a kook who's learning so happy to hear opinions - In a crowded Sydney beach etiquette seems to work i.e. don't drop in, don't snake (which I guess is my naïve opinion on etiquette) until a grumpy old local arrives and will literally say 'they own the waves'. I can agree with localism keeping people safe in dangerous conditions but the worst I have been abused is on a 1-2ft day when a grumpy old man needs to take the one wave that comes every 5 minutes. It seems to me a lot of the attitude is 'I've been a selfish prick who's screwed everyone over for years so I have a right to keep screwing people over for years to come' and 'the beach belongs to guys whose dads taught them to surf'. A lot of it seems like thinly veiled thuggery - I too have very little respect for localism. The one defence I hear that really irks me is that if I pay my dues and show respect I can make it into this special club - and then what? I become someone who also snakes other people's waves and has zero regard for human decency because I know a few people in the line up who will back me up to bully someone. It seems a lot like the old boys school mentality where the oldest kids would bully and abuse the younger kids - the younger kids of course should 'take it in their stride' because in a few years they will be lucky enough to cause trauma to others. Seems abhorrent.
My son from mackay went down to Brisbane to see his sister this week. They went for a surf at snapper rocks. He is a 15 year old kid and he was appalled at how some of the locals treated him. Was verbally abused several times for being in the road. He is at an intermediate level but still sometimes finds himself accidentally in the wrong spot. By the same token he said there was one local there who was chill as and really encouraging and helpful so good and bad everywhere. Still disappointing that people think they can own the surf. It’s such a great sport and should be something we enjoy together without ownership. We were all kooks once hey🤙
What do you expect? Surfing one of the most hotly contested and crowded waves in the world and your expecting people to call your son into waves or get some sort of preferential treatment? Please, get real! I grew up on the GC, surfed all my life, 33, happens to everyone.
I've always wanted to surf & been bummed I don't live near an ocean. This video has made me grateful I have a snowy mountain to enjoy a board sport without any bs involved.
I surf a 9'0" Firewire in surf 2-6 foot at many different a point breaks as I enjoy the camping and surfing experience. At 54 and fit I've caught thousands of good waves, however... I can 100% state that I've earned more compliments from other surfers when I'm sitting out further than them and I indicate to that I'm letting great waves slide past me, to them on the inside. Surfing to me is a respect sport... give more and feel happier. And when you're camped in the car park it's amazing when they walk up to thank you for showing gentlemen's etiquette.
You are spot on Kale. We need more like you. Conscious Localism to me is regulating the break with fairness and maturity. Calling out people who ignore etiquette and letting the newbs know the regulars/locals won’t tolerate it. When the lineup is flowing we all cheer each other on. Even if we don’t know each other’s name. I’d be happy to share waves with you here in San Diego.
I had an incident with a local where I caught a great wave, but fell after my bottom turn. He started yelling at me saying I’m not ready for that wave and to go away. It was a crowded line up, and I can understand their frustration of having so many people join a break that used to be their own. Luckily I watched you video about 2 months before this happened so I just moved to the side and let it go. My natural instinct would have been to stand my ground, but that would have taken me nowhere. Thanks for sharing this! 🤙
I always thought the respect was for skill, which naturally is the few locals that generally dominate a spot. I can only remember a couple times I was shit on when I couldn’t make any sense of a skill related reason. When it was skill related I knew it and apologized, local or otherwise. I then thought about it for a couple days while surfing another area🥵. Thankfully I’ve passed the gauntlet of pure beginner, but not by any raging distance (depends on the break). I can say without question when I’m at a break and I’m in the above average skillset, it’s a very different experience than the flip side. So I still think this is largely skill based. My parting thought is be patient, think about your position in the culture and lineup where you are surfing, and do your best to be part of it vs. dipping in for the best days on your world travels and jetting along to the next great break. And don’t be a safety hazard. Surfs up🤙🏼😎
I observed Localism way back in the year 2000, living on the Sunshine Coast QLD, I started surfing there in the 80's It was such a relaxed vibe back in the 80's and 90's, with easy going surf etiquette and plenty of waves to go around. By the turn of the millennium (20 years ago now) locals were being pushed out of their home breaks by rough heads and new arrivals.... drop ins, snaking and wave rage. That's when surfing started becoming full tilt mainstream. On a good day it was not uncommon way back then to see 30-40 surfers in the lineup at The Bluff, (nice long point break) If its pumping you might get say 4 good waves per set, that's plenty of action for a handful of surfers, but when you get 30-40+ in the line up, that's a lot of competition for a ride. For some, Caveman Mode kicks in, cos they know if they don't show some bravado they gonna miss out and spend the session just paddling around for nothing. Riding a nice wave is almost orgasmic, that's why surfers are so pumped after a good sesh. Feeling the energy of the water and tuning in to the vibration of that swell rising releases serotonin in your body.....it's a natural high :) The ratio of waves to surfers is too unbalanced now days. Commercialism + population growth = Corporate profits + Surfer frustration
Start a surfing reserve at your local to preserve what's left of it no matter how shit and crowded, they did it on the Gold Coast recently the developer's still got in though and 'improved' the whole thing with double width concrete slab footpaths etc.
Surf on weekday evenings and stay away from the weekend in the summer time. At my beach the locals are friendly and helpful. It's the 40 year old men with the 40 foot boards that start the crap from the inland cities. May I add, surf more in the winter.
Surfing is an individual sport. Each individual is their own team. What happens when you put 50-hundreds of teams playing in the same field is quite chaotic. I agree with Kale, and in crowded lineups I am also unforgiving and make sure I look after myself, but also try to be humble unless provoked.
What do you do when you travel to score other places. Is that what you want to happen to you. You must be bored of your local break. If you travel by yourself with respect you will have no problem . Just don't paddle straight to the lineup, sit on the shoulder and wait your turn and don't act aggressive. Plain and simple common sense that you take with you every where you go in life. Ya , I know you were kidding anyway.
I surf a very busy wave and often deal with people who paddle straight to the inside or are slightly better than everyone else and so think they deserve the best waves. I’m generally a pretty nice and approachable guy but I’ll happily drop in on people who do this, not because I’m ripping or because I’m a heavy local (I am a long time local btw) but because I give the same as I get. If you think you’re going to get away with being a dick, then you’ll probably get the same treatment no matter where you surf. If I don’t know you and you snake me, I’m gunna drop in simple as that. Just be respectful when not surfing “your local” and 99.99% of locals will be the same back.
There are some comments suggesting that bad localism "is just the way it is" because there are only so many waves to go around. But that just so simply does not have to be the case. For example, rock climbers compete for a route but are so generous and willing to share gear and cheer each other on. It is such a supportive sport with limited space to climb. Surfers are the worst, I've had many sessions ruined by guys yelling at me after they cut me off.
understanding sport is about being humble practicing it regardless of your skill (as great champions in many sports have shown). Surf needs to step up its game
In my experience there are quite a few beginner surfers who just won't learn to look and pull back off a wave unless someone unfamiliar yells to make them aware to not drop in. It just seems to take a certain type of person a long time to learn that lesson unless there are unpleasant consequences. It's a matter of character because not all beginners do that. Having said that, you can be firm without being nasty, that's a matter of character too.
I think you will lose anyone if you are yelling at them. I am a woman, but when I was a girl I was boogie boarding and I was only 12 years old but strong swimmer and I was out where the surfers were. I had this guy scream at me that I was doing it wrong, mind you I was catching waves and getting very good rides. He told me I was too young to be out there, to get off his waves, and then another surfer defended my right to be there and a big fight started. Had he been nicer to me and told me what I was doing wrong versus right I might have been willing to listen but he was an arrogant a$$ so I didn't listen. Consequently, he was right I was riding them wrong LOL I was going over the falls and while I did get a lot of good rides I also ate it a bunch of times. haha
@@vaskylark I don't mean yelling but just a shout to let someone know that you are already on the wave. Dropping in is the best way to ruin everyones session but some beginners don't know what that means until someone tells them.
@@stokes58 Well I agree, but don't get mad because groms don't know unless taught, and ya can't teach anything if you lose your temper and tell someone 'girls don't belong out here' which this guy did, they will just keep right on droppin in on your wave.
@vaskylark I never blame the young groms who are still learning because you see dads out there with their kids and it’s almost like the crowd is invisible to them. Everyone loves their kids and wants them to get waves and have a good time but I don’t understand what it is with the generation that are now roughly between the age of 35-40 that makes them so entitled. Do they even realise they’re putting their kids in a potentially dangerous situation every time they tell them “go, paddle, paddle” and push them into a wave that’s already being surfed by someone who waited their turn? Not just the potential for someone to be hurt in an accident but also in the future when they’ve been trained to ignore other surfers and take whatever they want; they won’t be frothing groms whom we all give the benefit of the doubt forever and that behaviour that has the potential to lead to nasty accidents today will eventually lead to nasty non-accidental injuries on the beach tomorrow and it’s not even their fault, it’s those shitty parents. I don’t know what has happened to teaching kids respect. I mean if not out of consideration for others then at least teach them for the sake of self preservation. The surf dads of today will destroy surfing tomorrow.
Hey man I gotta say as a local of the Byron area (broken head) when I saw you surfing around here, you were definitely taking more than your share of waves. The insight here is on point, but maybe just be weary of your own skill and ability to perhaps unintentionally overpower other people in the water. Not trying to attack you here, everything you said was on point. Just be weary! Cheers
Hey mate! I always respect line up etiquette but in crowded spots I am unforgiving and assertive but I hope never greedy 👊🏾 if I’m one of the few who can make it past the sweep and that results in me sitting up the top for the good ones then so be it 🤷🏼♂️
@@KalesBroccoli Good response I get both your points of view but I came to realise recently that if I start to get annoyed by someone else getting more waves the answer is to step up my game and get better (or/and move positions in the water) and not direct my frustration (with my own ability which is really what is happening) at someone else - improved my surfing loads
Don't surf here, but if you do. Don't catch too many waves? It's the kind of simple mentality that makes it easy to surf around locals anywhere. To bad your not as good as some other surfer, so call them out and blame them for being better, more athletic and catching more waves than you. Locals just never seem to be the smartest. Just lucky to have a wave near by that they can beat there chest to is not enough. You got to bitch and belly ache your first world problems to anyone that will listen to you.
Great video mate - you hit the nail on the head with "some locations are a last resort". Surfed a crowded Burleigh heads at age 17, waited 45 mins until everyone inside me had gotten a wave, a local who id seen on every wave from the top of the point had just kicked out and proceeded to drop in on my patiently earned in-betweener and threatened to drown me for trying to surf past him... Props to one of the other surfers in the lineup - also a local who came over and made sure I was okay! - big lessons learned that day.
Seeing you woud have lots of beginners watching your youtubes, please do an episode on how to look around to avoid dropping in, avoid surfers paddling out, and not bailing the board so you dont kill people. Thankyou.
That would be good, me and my family have just started to learn how to surf, and we are of to on a surffing holiday next month for some fun in the sea. I certainly dont want to put anyone at risk.
This literally just happened to me today in L.A. My local break was small so I went to a different beach where it was a bit bigger and even though I didn't drop in on the guy, we both paddled for a wave at the same time and other guy stood up first, and I didn't pull out/didn't see him standing up first. Partially my fault, but him and his pals where talking a bit about "I must not be from around there" when Ironically, I have been surfing that beach since 1995 but not on the regular, which seemed to shut them up. The whole interaction killed my vibe tho- My problem with "Locals" is the belief in ownership... You don't own the Ocean, Champ.
As a local in my home break I'd define it as protecting against visitors that don't apply etiquette, usually observed on groups of friends. All the others are welcome!
Nice video ;). I am a surf coach and I usually explain to my students why some people can react like bad when they see newbies to the spot. Imagine you are cooking at home, it smells good, you left the door slightly open and the smells goes on the street. I pass on the street and smelling this incredible meal, I enter your house, without knocking, without saying hello, sit on the table and say "hey, when is dinner". Everybody would get mad :). Better to take time, say hi, observe, wait a bit and then every normal person will let you surfing. Of course everybody has the right to surf but with a common sense of respect. I live in the Canary Island where small locals (a tiny group) can be very aggressive but I never had to fight... 🤙🤙
Very clearly analyzed and expressed on all points. Surfed one break for 15 years and saw the changes in crowd size. I think the surf reports online, helped make folks more aware, by advertising the spot and also the cams. I try to adjust as best as I can ( not easy ). Less experiences in my cruise into nature with not many around-- gotta be more careful of the clueless, hot shots,amped agros, etc. I have a feeling the surf high, in combo with slight anxiety, greed, ......you name it, opens a direct door ( for some ) to a room in the brain, where ego is king. Screw that-- I give waves to the blokes, I know have been waiting too long. I get high off of that too.
Kale, thanks brother. Everywhere you go now with decent waves the crowds are there. Even cold water spots like Ocean Beach, San Francisco have changed significantly in popularity. Like many beaches when its double overhead and ice cold, the fair weather, 2 foot crowd and pumping crew is nowhere to be found.
Great content. Raised some very valid points. But you would never pull into a queue at your local servo and park in front of the guy who’s just filled his tank. 👀. Everyone needs to have an open understanding that society works best when we understand law and order but also practice kindness while doing it.
9:55 I've literally never once seen any other kind of localism but this. Also the kind that just burn everyone on every wave and then get mad at you for being in the way when they eventually cutback
@@joshuamills7633 Nice! I've definitely seen people who are always at the same spot, but they never really enforce make any kind of strict etiquette or line up rules. They usually just mind their own business and wait for the set that roles in every half hour. Idk if that makes them "locals" or not, but by regular human definition that's clearly their local break. Also this is kinda random but how do you become a local somewhere? Like if you've just moved there
@@joshuamills7633 Also locals I encounter definitely make it clear that different rules apply in the water, but those rules only benefit them and nobody else. Usually it's something like "older guys always have right of way" or "you get the wave if you start paddling first and if you surf here 7 days a week"
@@joshuamills7633 yeah for sure. I live in La tho so we don't really have any uncrowded breaks. Except for like 2 but those only break when it's a big swell. Any other day and you have situations like the clip from Kirra all the time. Except that wave is obviously 20 as good as any break in La
Sup Kale, here's the thing here in Baja Mexico, we get a lot of gringos (US surfers) MOST we come in contact with (doesn't matter if you've had a house on the cliff for years or just roadtripping by) feel like they can do whatever they want and don't follow surf etiquette at all, paddling straight to the point as soon as they enter the water as well as not following line up order so this is why things escalate, you will probably get screamed at if you paddle, drop in or snake someones wave, if you don't fall in line after a warning get ready to get dropped in or continuously blocked, worst case scenario you can get a scratched car or deflated if not slashed tires...or beat up So as in most places doesn't matter if you are pro level, just say Hi when arriving and follow common surf guidelines and you'll be ok "Give respect, get respect"
Maybe. But one could also make the argument that, as more and more wave pools get built, it’ll dilute the number of surfers at the actual breaks. Especially those who are now making the beach drive from far inland.
@@jblo76 Dont be hurt, but just dream about ! Offce job is the past moost people can just work from anywhere now a days, especialy those who can afford expensive wave pool sessions. An the less wealthy do have time thanks to state benfit, therefor more free time.
I'm thinking more aggro localism like knocking somebody out or breaking a window on a car or other bad stuff. A couple of dude sneaking waves it's not localism to me that's art of surfing. FWIW
63-0 Likes to dislikes. I was wondering if you were going to point out the Stab video. Totally agree about positive localism in regulating lineups because I don't think there is anything more dangerous than a crowded lineup with good waves and 4-8 people paddling in with people on the inside. Definitely had that positive experience at my local break in Hawaii when I started surfing.
The issue extends beyond surfing. The planet is over populated… exponential population growth is ruining quality of life. The more humans, the less freedom and the more we must compete for limited resources. I feel bad for the youth of 100 years from now.
It actually scares me to think what this planet would be like in a 100 years. Pollution, sea levels rising and the weather getting more extreme I dread to think, just glad I or any of my family won't be around. Oh and that's if it does last another 100 coz a world war 3 would wipe out most human anway
Had to deal with this earlier today in Malibu, The 2 foot warriors Thought they owned the beach 🏝 I’m all About peace ☮️ but definitely encouraged them To take it to the sand 😆👊🏾
Hey Kale! I'm curious, have you come across any pushback or negativity from other surfers because of your fame as a surf coach or someone who encourages new surfers to get into the water?
The point made around 8:14 about your experience in Sydney and the more general psychology of greed and mistrust is a point well made. Scarcity is an emotional response and empathy and generosity require the punctuation provided my the rational mind. Not always easy but a good reminder to look beyond the myopic frustration of other people taking 'your' waves or being turds about others taking 'theirs'.
I enjoyed this video Kale. I couldn’t help but notice that every time you tried to speak about the positive aspects of localism, you had to look down at your prompts. I don’t blame you. Hard to find the positives on what’s typically negative behavior. It’s so ironic that we deal with some such rubbish behavior while taking part in an activity that’s so pure and awesome. Love your work.
How about the antithesis to the topic... in all places I’ve surfed I have never had issues with local crew. Perhaps I could gauge my own abilities and stamina at any given time and I made an effort to get to know few locals. I know this is not the case everywhere. However, I’ve surfed in Norway too. Generally very polite and respectful people in and out of the water. What I saw with my own eyes and experienced was - at some point there were couple of Brazilians - started to show up. And the vibe has changed because of the way they were acting. They were going on every single wave they could and could not get into, had facial expressions as if they are super serious and angry, never talked to anyone, never smiled... and within a month there were angry comments and tension from local surfers (and other visiting foreigners). So, sometimes this “localism” can get triggered by non-locals.
I surf locally most of the time at a normally uncrowded [by Sydney or GC standards] spot and most surfers know each other by sight if not by name however there are still those surfers that have to go every wave that comes along. One of my good friends is a really nice bloke but just cannot help himself and goes everything in a frothing, focussed way, not intending to burn anyone. You have to call out to him or he just doesn't realise that you are there sometimes. Since lockdowns I have seen localism issues between locals that just normally surf at different times of the day usually and don't normally see each other, haha. Great stuff Kale.
the whole thing you said about Sydney surfers being greedy and "needing to prove something" is so true, you can genuinely see it in the way they move through lineups and even just how they surf, its truly sad how popular that kind of etiquette has become in Sydney (particularly in the northern beaches)
I grew up with Warriewood as my local beach (mid-‘70s - early ‘80s) and sort of in the second generation of “Warriewood Animals.” With decades of reflection behind me I can see how we took it too far at times with intimidation in the water and on the beach. Just stupid shit like throwing rubbers filled with water from the little cliffs above the parking lot, the insanely ignorant setting off the shark alarm to clear the lineup except for our group, even burning old “planks” on the rocks by the point and chanting some nonsense. On the other hand we were the ones cleaning up all the trash they left before heading back to (we of course assumed) the Western Suburbs, etc.. We feuded with the “Clubbies” even more, though, and the rumour was one of the five or six Robson brothers or a flat crazy bloke, “Cockroach” (who died very young joyriding behind Graham Robson whilst on acid on a stolen motorbike) who burned down the Clubhouse in the very early ‘80s. I moved to Venice Beach at 18 and surfed all over Southern Coastal California for twenty odd years, so was never a local, per se. It wasn’t as crazy as on the Northern Beaches, but we mostly steered clear of Ventura County and Rancho Palos Verdes which are notorious for messing with non-locals. Excuse the bit of a rant, there, mate...cheers.
Great comments at the end. Localism drop ins is not respectable at all and not leading by anything close to a fair example. Everyone says how bad it is to see a wave go to waste as another excuse to drop in on a beginner or an unrecognised surfer. This is such a floored argument, I feel letting go of waves is what we as surfers have to work on, like letting go of anything we love is hard. We all have to share and enjoy each other’s thrills and spills not be so greedy and selfish not matter where we live or how long we have surfed there for
I watch Kale’s channel specifically to learn surf etiquette and technique. I am the guy who vacations from Arizona and picked up a board in the last 24 months because the opportunity was there and I’d always wanted to learn. The most difficult part of surfing has been the social aspect. Surfers in Southern California do not help people like me become introduced to surfing. They don’t take a leadership role and welcome and educate us. So, I do what I can to recognize and avoid getting in anyone’s way while taking advantage of the few opportunities that my skill level and limited time at the break provide me.
We’ll mainly it’s because we’ve all gone through the shit ourselves (getting out-paddled for waves, being at the bottom of the pecking order, and yes getting burned by other surfers). There aren’t enough waves to go around in SoCal as it is, so why would you expect an out-of-stater to get such a warm welcome and special treatment. Hate to say it, but part of learning to surf is going through that initial shitstorm and being exposed to the uglier side of the culture. I’m not saying that locals should break common etiquette by any means. In fact I’m usually quite amiable to visitors. But many of us have seen transient surfers or beginners come and go who are often quite obnoxious or clueless in the lineup so trust for newbies is already low. No one’s going to hold your hand through this. You’ve got to put in your time.
Hey madame from California and I told you understand your perspective and I and IA 120% agree with you a lot of california's are really mean to outside locals or outsiders who have no etiquette but I guarantee you if you ask nicely and just tell people Hey what waves and where everything is and where your spots are people are really friendly but it's just like some weird tribalistic But in reality we all started off as cooks with no educate for the most part unless you grew up in the beach I always asked and I learned as I went on but you know certain movies teach you that stuff too you see the locals and the cooks fighting and I always said I never wanted to be the cook so you know it's where your heads at and how much you want to learn but there's plenty of RUclips channels that will teach you more etiquette and technique if you need that don't let those California S bringing you down man just keep surfing and if you have to have a few friends with you and be jerks to them, they back down
a Good point you made is about how peoples actions is a reflection of their personal state of mind, screaming at people or damaging their property is what I call a low form of communication and any respectable human is better than that. As a Sea Rescue crew member, a surfer and Coach I aspire to be a good example for others. life should not be taken too seriously
And how about surf schools. My local beach break is busy with surf lessons. It's crazy. And instructors dont care, push learners into waves that are already taken,etc... So local business is against local surfers big time... It's so frustrating.
I agree instructors can be unfairly dominant. Especially when the good spots on a break are limited, they put their class on the best spot and tell other surfers to pick a lesser one for "safety".
As a bodyboarder, I multiply all expectations of negativity and localism by a factor of 10, keep my expectations low and my head down, haha. Respect where it's due, be aware of your surroundings and also, a major major point here is the importance of and the often lacking of EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE. Being good at dealing with yourself and other people eases a lot of this.
I was out at San Onofre (where I've been a bazillion times) and I had a girl pull a pretty nasty snake on me, so of course I didn't let her get away with it and I dropped in. It wasn't dangerous or anything, just holding my ground. Right afterward some dude I have never seen before starting yelling at me about how us "riverside people" (riverside is the inland area about an hour drive, but nope, I live real close) need to get out of their way and how I'm messing with the flow. Didn't even let me explain what had happened. I went off on this asshole, and I'm pretty sure I made him so mad that he tried popping my tires in the lot. It was crazy to me that at the break I'm a surefire local to, this could happen. There's definitely a balance to localizing a spot to keep the idiots from ruining everyones time, but what I'm seeing now is too far.
Dropping in after getting dropped in on…never a good approach (though most of us have been guilty of it at one time or another). As for that guy, it’s like the NBA - the refs are always gonna see and penalize the player who retaliates and T him up…not the instigator. Who knows if that guy knew her or just saw you snake (and didn’t see hers). Anyway, I know what you’re saying about San O. I also live close and surf there pretty regularly but the so-called “locals” who think they own it are annoying as fuck. Helps when there’s a massive swell to thin out the crowd and more peaks to go around.
In Rockaway beach, Queens, NYC, my sense is that we don't have a problem with localism, because there are so many people here. Who can tell who's local or not? There's even a surf school here called, "The Locals", as though being a "local" was the greatest aspiration a student could achieve. Another reason localism isn't likely a problem here, is that the real surfers only come out when it's brick outside, cuz that's the season when you find the big waves. I appreciate your discussion about it. I often find surfers a bit arrogant, but I think you make a good point about how it's a particularly weird sport. It's all good. Stay safe and thanks for your great videos.
I think a lot of "anger" in the water has to do with the increase of people in the water that don't know the rules, and beginners/beginning-intermediates thinking that they are already really good surfers. In sessions where both these things don't happen, it seems like everyone is having the best of times and biggest smiles. Both locals and non-locals.
I'm a beginner at a spot with a pretty stable local crew... I was extremely apprehensive of localism when going out on my big round-nosed yellow board 😅 But a few back to back days in the water and some friendly conversation/banter and now I feel recognised and welcome.
Im more on the local side with my break i always go to and this really helped me realize more of the impact that localism has. Im not a very aggressive surfer but it is definitely more fun to have a spot with a community you know, but to force people out of the water just isnt cool.
Learned how to surf in Myrtle Beach, SC and ended up living in San Diego for four years. Took a long break between surfing in high school (2014) and getting back into it (2021) and I expected a lot of localism and issues trying to pick it back up in San Diego. I can say, out of most of the places I’ve surfed, the locals have been some of the most welcoming and understanding people I’ve surfed with. I’ve definitely had my kook moments (dropping in, unknowingly snaking) but even when it happens I just approach that surfer with a humble “I’m sorry” and most the time get greeted with a “no problem dude, just pay more attention”. Locals and experienced surfers for the most part understand that people learning are gonna fuck up. And as long as you apologize and are humble about your fuck up, most the time you’re gonna be alright. Honestly, the locals here have given me way more advice and have taught me so much more than any RUclips video I’ve watched.
what i see a lot is non-locals paddling out and taking sets like they own the place, which pisses off the locals and leads to mouthing off and all the rest. my guess is that many people, who are upset by what they perceive as unfair localism, are actually not acknowledging how their actions may have contributed to a confrontation. so many inexperienced surfers paddle out at difficult spots, snake, drop in, get in the way, and then can't understand why someone, who may or may not actually be a local, gets pissed off. that said, there are always arseholes who also happen to be locals; and you can bet that the other locals don't appreciate them either ;)
Thought provoking for sure. Surfing can be almost a spiritual experience at times but not when you are surrounded by a bunch of arseholes, or worse still, behaving like one your self. Always try to keep the vibe positive and if it isn't go somewhere else or come back another time. It can be done.
i started surfing in southern California in 1970 , and localism has always been around . my family surfed, my dad did in the 50tys and my older brothers taught me the surfing etiquette rules. I also could not go try and surf the better spots tell i progressed as a surfer. i did not try to, but if i had i would have been dealt with by those who surf that spot all the time. it was small groups of people who all new each other back then and they almost always only surfed their spots, and i saw many a surfer come out and not give any respect and just try and take over the wave. Those people got beat up ,kicked out of the water, and had rocks thrown at them with everyone yelling go home kook, even if they were good surfers. but if some one showed up and could surf and gave respect they eventually were allowed to surf no problems. things started changing in the 80's as surfers started traveling to other spots more , and surf fights started being prosecuted in courts, more slack was allowed. So as i improved i went to the better waves and i gave respect and stayed at the back of the odder and was excepted every time. As years went by i became one of the main locals , mostly because everyone new how i was. People who surf a wave every day , know the wave better than others and have put in the time to be able to get more respect than some one how just shows up and wants the best waves. Over the years i have seen it all , but other people in the water is just part of it these days . The older local surfers in an area need to help others learn and not be a problem in the water but understand that yeah there will not be as many waves but we can all have fun. because being a crazy local isn't fun either, it just feeds a over inflated ego, and destroys the session for everyone. I find the best surfers tend to be nice people and they find the best waves. I think the biggest thing is if respect is given it is given back maybe not right away but it will happen
Its one thing for the Salty Seadogs to do their thing when its like 6-8ft and pumping, Ive encountered hella aggressive surfers on 1ft beach breaks.. which is kinda pathetic imo.
@onox I can imagine you in the line-up. You can’t relate to the frustration because you’re on a 10ft mal 20m further out than everyone else. You think it’s all about wave size/quality but that’s only because the bigger and more throwing the surf is, the closer you are to people on smaller boards because of the nature of the breaking wave in that situation therefore: “I can understand when the salty sea dogs do their thing when it’s like 6-8ft” because in those situations, you’d have to put up with it too when there isn’t 20m separating your take off zone and those who recognise you from the smaller days when conditions permit you to snake the line-up on you fucking kayak… they have a chance to dose you with your own medicine
@@damson140 haha nope bro, I'm usually on my trustie 5,4" Hypto, working on my air revs on close out shories as well man, those mofos on 10ft logs who stand up 10 seconds before it breaks are very annoying I know.. seen agro dudes like that as well.. My point is legit anyone, if your a bodyboarder or a fken stand up paddle boarder.. If your getting aggressive at people on a 1ft beach break, I'm kinda just laughing at you. we all are.
My point is people with the mindset 1-2ft = “fuck etiquette” 6-8ft = “oy, pull your head in” Are bad for the sport. It’s a selfish perspective that results most likely from bad parenting.
The most confusing part is when it’s pumping there are more waves to go around and less begginers/intermediates in the lineup and generally more of a paddle back to the peak therefore more time for the lineup to rotate smoothly. I personally deal with less bullshit when it’s pumping. Small days are actually more frustrating when you take all of that into account?
Best video topic for commenting bait haha. Good one! Dam you got me too! I've never had a local break as I'm some distance to any break, and I can say as a non-local just about everywhere I go, if you have can decently rip and understand/pratice the local etiquette, you'll be fine. You'll get snaked when it's crowded. Find yourself a less crowded spot if you don't want to get snaked or risk getting tangled with a less skilled rider. And I really liked your point at the end where you say you wouldn't want this surfing eutopia (@12:20) out there b/c it can get pretty chaotic otherwise. So, maybe hug a local next time you're out...nah don't do that.
I live in Sydney northern beaches as well , I've been surfing at my local beach for 2.5 years now, from total beginner to intermediate, at first most locals had a vey arrogant attitude towards beginner me. But after grinding my surfing and improve quite significantly whilst being respectful in the lineup I "earned" a do called respect from them and get more good waves that I would usually do, also joining the boardriders helped even more.
I’m in North San Diego County. The problems I see are with the NON locals that never bothered to learn any surf etiquette. I guess they don’t teach that at the Waco Wave Pool.
When I'm at sano I try to best to explain to people what they did wrong if they did something wrong and most of the time they're absorbent and stop making the mistake for the rest of the day. Most locals are lovely at sano. I've only had a few bad experiences and it was with people I've never seen before.
Surfing makes you happy that’s why we do it. I find that no matter where I go, no matter how crowded the surf is respect goes a long way when traveling. My first session in a crowded lineup is is spent just sitting and chatting. If it’s a point break, I start at the bottom and as the guy ahead of me catches a wave, I move up to the next guy and chat with him. Till I eventually reach the outside and wait for the guys to eventually give me a wave. I make sure to make that wave count. T rat of the day give wave to everyone, hang out and compliment every ride. By the next day, you will start catching more and more waves. Give positive energy and you will get it back in spades.
I surf at a heavy local spot. A shallow reef break that can handle up to triple overhead and it's a dangerous location. For us, it's a combination of safety and respect. Like someone else mentioned it's the ones who paddle out with a sense of entitlement that triggers all of us. Why on earth would you paddle out and immediately try and catch the first waves you see & not expect localism? Communicate. Ask if the guy next to you is going. They might not be paddling yet because they don't need to. They just need to turn around and go. Never ever burn the old guys in the lineup. If they're paddling for a wave it's because it's one they know they can actually catch and it's rarely the best wave. Let them go. You won't see them for a while because it takes us forever to paddle back out :-) The thing I tell unknowns the most is don't get in the way. If you're getting in the way you're going to get sent in.
"don't get in the way".... What if these newcomers can actually bring a new way of surfing to that spot that no local ever figured out? Why is it that locals think they own the spot? I understand safety and respect, but what you just described is "2000% respect for the locals, -50% respect for newcomers" and safety is just an excuse to kick out people
@@bekawak6529 Well, getting in the way is dangerous. A new person hasn't figured out a better spot to catch the waves. There's a reason no one else is sitting in the heavy drop in zone on certain days. If someones constantly getting in the way they're doing something wrong. Better to sit wide or on the beach and watch and learn a spot. Yes, 100% respect for the locals. I do the same when I travel. It's their home break and who am I to think I'm just going to paddle out and paddle battle them for every wave I see? The respectful newcomers get plenty of nice waves. I was once one at my local break. Some breaks are complicated and they take years to master if ever. Paddling out somewhere new and demanding respect rarely ends well. Giving respect goes a long ways. Happy surfing...
@@lavapix What you are describing is a dreamlike situation because, in reality, even if you don't get in the way, you are in the way. Why is it that locals think they can catch a wave, paddle out and catch the next wave they see? There is a priority that is equal for EVERYONE!!!!!! I don't know if you skateboard, but man, I skated for 12 years and I NEVER encountered a toxic attitude like I see in surfing. Locals are toxic even towards other locals! Its not about being local and knowing the place and being safe and respectful, for them, its about being the top priority surfer, catching every wave, getting in the way of everybody (except those locals they are afraid to beaten by... pussies) and getting mad when someone gets in their way.. Come one, it's dictatorship. I understand what you are saying when you are respectful on a new beach you don't know (and that's the way it should be) but who says you can't learn the spot in one day and sit out with the locals that same day, and ride the same waves as they do, as well, or even better than them? That's the issue for me, they have to approve a newcomer in order to surf with them... That's not the way it should be. That's not a way in skating... We motivate newcomers to ride the same obstacles we do in the skatepark or in the local spot. We don't kick them out and tell them that the spot is OURS. Surfing has a really toxic mentality for some of them out there. Even here in Terceira island, Azores, the locals are hostile against younger locals that they don't know... Its despicable and I shit on their faces... I have as much right to surf those waves as them. The Ocean is nobody's property and these arrogant men forget that the only thing they need to have respect in this sport is for the Ocean... Horrible mentality that is lived in surfing. No room for learning or educating, just kicking out...
@@bekawak6529 You keep throwing in scenerios that just don't fit so I'm not going to address them all. Not sure where you surf but you're only in the way if you're actually in the way. As for the few locals who think every wave is their wave, that doesn't sit well with the rest of us and they are dealt with just like anyone else. But that's very rare because we have order and respect where I surf. Like another commented, if you don't have rules of etiquette you have chaos. Chaos leads to injuries. Don't like the rules enforced at a spot, there are plenty of other breaks where chaos rules you can go to and enjoy. You call it dreamlike and I live it as a reality. Dreaming is thinking you're going to figure out a crowded tough break in a day :-) You also need to know the other surfers too. Lots of variables at play. Paddling out with a sense of entitlement amongst people who prefer to earn never plays out very well for the entitled ones.
@@lavapix You sound like the ones who are entitled and catch much more waves than others. And when someone wants to catch a wave that you think you were entitled to catch, you teach them "respect" which is basically telling them to leave. What do you mean when you say a guys paddles out with a sense of entitlement? If you mean a guy who just wants to catch the same waves you are catching and is new to the spot, then you are a hell of a local snake
Mate, it's 2 years later on the Northern Beaches, and it's even worse now. 10am on a workday, breaks like Bungan and Tuzz - places that don't even have parking lots - and there's 20 or 30 guys out on 2ft slop. This never used to happen.
No doubt "locals" have done some travel for surf in their time. There is no good or bad in karma, just cause and effect. Keep spreading the good vibes Kale🤙
A long time ago I was paddling out at a spot new to me and was too far inside on the wrong break. A "local" kid with a really bad attitude started screaming at me and tried to surf right across my back. Fortunately I got scared, leaned back, and our boards hit and both lost a little foam. I paddled out as fast as I could, and I am so thankful that another "local" came out to protect me from the first guy who wanted to beat me up. It still scares me to think about being a kid and having someone trying to physically hurt me over waves that weren't even that good at a public beach. I admit my fault for being in the wrong spot, and screwing up the etiquette, but I don't know worth trying to give someone scars over.
Same at here in bali we the local dont have the spot for surf anymore full of tourist, expats(they dont wanna call themself imigran even they live in bali 20 years already), russian surf Coach (illegal dont have working visa) my opinion is localism is needed sometime 😉
@@VeganArtAdventure so are you immigrant or expat? Because from my Experience in western country live there for 1 year and i still holding Indonesia passport they dont call me expat 🤷🏾♂️
I am proud to say we have conscious localism here at our inland river wave. The line up over all is supportive of new people especially visitors. As I was learning years ago, a few would even coached me and are now some of my favorite surfers to share the wave with!! So I can’t help but pay that forward, as you can see in my surf videos I’m only an intermediate river surfer but can still offer tips to newbies and visitors. Plus the relationships we make there make our localism something I am very proud to be a part of. Great video and btw your content has helped me improve my surfing. Your pretty much the reason I got a surf skate last October and now want to spend time skating almost as much as surfing!!
@@KalesBroccoli it’s so hard to glean river tips from ocean surf videos, so different in so many ways but over the last three years as I have been progressing your vids are tops. Would be rad if you would give this vid of me from yesterday a look and let me know if there is any tips the ocean master can give a river rat?!? ruclips.net/video/ppJ38j4nkFM/видео.html
I bring a box of Fruit Roll-Ups out to the Lineup and pass them out to all my future friends. Hard to get mad with a wonderful Strawberry delight in your mouth.
I love the way you mix it up. I wouldnt watch a all surfing video , but the kinds of waves you surf make it exciting. Thank ur bro for sending people over🤙🤙🤙🤙
As a Hawaiian Surfer, its all about respect. Localism only happens when it needs to! Its an necessary action that is activated when poor behavior is present even among other locals. Safety first when in doubt don't go out!!! trust me break that rule the mother ocean will put you in your place faster than any Local will.
Having grown up in Hawaii (as a white guy) you are absolutely incorrect here. There are *many* "local-only" breaks that you simply cannot get into as a white person unless you're a recognized professional or competing. The 'racism' I experienced in Hawaii even as a kama'aina was blatant, overt, and completely undermined the idea of "aloha" that gets thrown around so often when talking about this sport or the islands in general. Luckily there are a few beaches, some behind military guard posts, that allow those not blessed with easily-tanning skin to enjoy the beach without being taken for, and treated as, haoles in a negative way. I think Hawai'i is an excellent example of the absolute worst kind of surf localism. I certainly get the motivation - as tourism runs the risk of overwhelming certain breaks, etc. That said, a tourist is spending a good percentage of their annual income to just get a glimpse of a surfing culture and locale that is legendary (and perhaps generative) to the sport. Telling her to "go home, haole" is precisely 180 degrees in the opposite direction from any interpretation of the aloha spirit. Sure, you have to respect the water - if someone isn't safe (i.e., beginner bodyboarder wants to hit Sandy's) to be in the water, telling that person to try somewhere more suited to that person's ability level is apropos. But that isn't localism - that's basic life-saving etiquette.
Great video Kale. I would like to see you make one about something you mentioned in this one but did not elaborate further. Specifically, the issue of people (particularly those unschooled in the culture of surfing) posting pictures and names of specific spots on social media - to show off, feed one's ego, or get "likes" or "followers". This directly contributes to overcrowding, and should never be done even if the place isn't a "secret spot". Yes, guidebooks have existed for decades, and there are surf cams and online guides now, but they are less of a problem because people don't consult them to check a particularly spot ALL AT THE SAME TIME. When someone posts a spot on social media, thousands of people see it simultaneously and it leads to that spot being overrun. Also, too many beginner surfers are coming to the beach in a large group, then ignoring any sort of rotation in the lineup and acting like they and their friends are the only ones there. Arriving at the beach with more than ONE friend has long been considered a kook move, I'd like to see more awareness of that. Thanks!
its a selfish sport by definition. one thing that naturally happens is that it is very noticeable who knows how to handle the surf and who doesnt. if you get in a crowded lineup and you can barely paddle you wont be given many chances to get waves. i find that its more related to your skill level than to localism to be honest.
Yes, you are right. I grew up surfing in my home town and am a local. When I surf elsewhere , I stay low key, figure out who is who, be patient, and above all don’t blow it, especially the drop, when I finally get into one. Once you’ve done that, you’ll generally get more waves. If you blow it, you’ll be dropped in on all day.
@@ooklamoc4411 This....I can't understand the absolute ignorance of this basic concept in so many of the replies here. It's the same logic that says the status quo, even if it marginalizes certain groups, should be defended. That's bullshit - and all of us should recognize that logic for the privileged arrogance that it is.
I lived in Santa Cruz, Cal from the 70's until about 1990. There was heavy localism by the "Westsiders" during that time. There were fights. I was an aspiring surf photographer. Once I got pictures of the locals published in the mags, I had no trouble with the locals. Getting your picture in a surf magazine in those days was a big deal. Not like now with the oversaturated media, Internet etc.
Localism is tricky and will only get worse the more popular surfing gets. Nothing more annoying than seeing a bunch of new faces at a spot where you have put in countless time to get a seat in the line up per say. No responsibility for poor etiquette these days either. Everyone seems to be surfing for cool points rather than trying to get better and improve. If you suck you shouldn’t be sitting at the peak and trying to paddle battle people who can surf. That wouldn’t even be a thing when I was growing up. I would sit on the shoulder and catch waves and watch better surfers surf the peak and learn from them. Today you surf and you see 15 men/women plus the normal crowd sitting on the peak with the go pros and fun boards going straight. It’s ridiculous. So I get it. The worst kind is the guy that can barely surf but can paddle good. Those guys OMG! Lol.
Great video Kale, on an important topic. Setting aside for now those few dicks that won't change, I have no problem with locals who are tired of being invaded by disrespectful blow ins, or ignorant beginners. I am still relatively new to surfing, and mostly go to a wide open beach break. There are better waves at the nearby point breaks, but I'm not good enough yet to go there at peak times, and conditions. I am having a blast at the beach break.
No, the sense of entitlement from non-locals is ruining surfing. In the past, you could go to spots, show respect and get waves. Now people feel than can just paddle out and get when they want.
This is comparable to the pier and surf fishing crews along the east coast states. Each pier has its own group or regulars on the end that live bait for Kings , Cobia , Tarpon etc and there’s only so much room to set up the live bait rigs. Most of the guys are chill but every pier seems to have at least one or two that have a way of making newcomers feel unwelcome. In a way it can be a good thing because it provides a sort of crowding control , on the other hand I wanted to catch them bigguns badly enough that I overcame the anxiety and said “f*** it, I ain’t letting intimidation stop me.” Like one of the local charter captains /pier legends once told me, “You gotta want it”
The amount and type of localism is actually more seldom and less harsh than it used to be. That means if surfing is becoming "ruined", you could say it's because of less localism?
I have a bit of an odd surf origin story, so maybe my perspective will be helpful to someone. I lived on the US East coast off and on and learned to read and love the ocean. I couldn't afford a board when I did live near a 'home break.' Years later, I was taught proper surfing, etiquette & respect in Hawaii and Northern California-now, ironically, those are the places that feel like home breaks to me. I've been fortunate to travel and paddle out into dozens of different breaks, from crowded world renowned to solo at nameless beaches. I'm always looking at new faces or an unfamiliar shoreline. For me the main focus is always safety. If youre less experienced, its just so important to stay outside and learn/catch what you can. If its a chill, small, or party wave group then it'll be Aloha either way. Only thing that would not sit well in my experience is a surfer who isn't aware if they're endangering someone, whether its dropping in or paddling out through the takeoff zone This is a complex and dynamic sport that everyone should be able to enjoy. If someone is less advanced, they likely have nowhere near the level of awareness that the experienced locals do. Stay empathetic & understanding
Localism simply works. I have been on the receiving end at times which I learned from. At my local we generally are neutral towards new people and after a period of time will accept them gladly if they are at least pleasant to be around.The other side of the coin involves showing the utmost hostility towards repeated bad behavior. The locals have this spot wired and therefore naturally get more wave, which happens everywhere.
Me and my family have a place in the south-west coast of France, where we've come regularly for the past 15 years. I still remember this one time, we had surfed in a "secret spot" - it was like a 10 min walk through the forest. When we came back from our session, we found our tires destroyed, because of our foreign number plate.
yeh i remember those old blokes, 5 of them surrounded me and asked where i was from. saying if im not from manly to respect them even though they gave nobody respect themselves.
This is real random thinking but I used to work in fisheries, and the oceans really are a limited resource in some ways: do areas ever release licenses (I'm talking a decade from now)? Like super easy to get (free probably) but a quota for the day? I think activities like surfing are only going to get more and more popular, and more and more dangerous. With fishing you'll sometimes have locals who get passes or quotas, and then you can be granted a day pass if you're visiting? I've only ever surfed in a quiet spot in Vietnam and then the Great Lakes here in Canada where I always have my local spot to myself, so I have no idea what an Aus or Cali lineup must be like, but the parts of surfing that seem to end up in brawls are just so wildly unappealing. I'm a safe kook who gets the rules part but I'm not sure I'm ever going to be skilled enough to impress a local, surfing is a thing I love that I'm not great at, so going on surf holidays seems horrible and I'm afraid to book them because I don't want to have an awful time trying to do something I'm really grateful for at my own break, even if the freshwater waves are only ok. Just spitballing anyways, comparing to another industry that faces limited ocean space and sustainability issues, because eventually somethings gotta give right.
No, you young guys just don’t have any surf etiquette and don’t like it when the older guys school you. I’m a “middle aged” female. I can’t tell you how many times I have some guy in his 20s on a longboard BACKPADDLE me. Old guys never do that. Learn some manners and you won’t have problems.
I gotta say that in my surfing life I have to agree that the 40-50ish year olds (long or shortboarders it doesn’t matter) are the saltiest, most entitled mothereffers of the bunch. And I’m saying that as someone IN that age range 🤣, though not with the attitude). That said, you always have the occasional young backpaddling wave hog punk…but they don’t wreak nearly the havoc as the older assholes.
Would pre-emptively condemning oneself be an effective way to avoid this, such as a rash guard with "I'M A BEGINNER. I SUCK." or "UTTER LOSER" written on it? When I first started learning swimming at 24 years old, I often got derogatory comments from two senior swimmers when I practised on my own outside of the lessons; I subsequently wrote "I SUCK" across my chest and back with a Sharpie marker and never got a condescending remark or action again.
I’m really lucky that I’m a woman because it works to my advantage when I’m surfing- everyone has always been kind and encouraging to me. I started teaching my boyfriend how to surf a little over a year ago, and most surfers are pretty rude to him in comparison. It’s sad. The ONLY time anyone was nice to him was a few weeks ago when some 14 year old kids talked to him and were nice.
Thanks so much for the insight Kale ! I really believe in the "you get what you deserve" mantra... it's not even been one year I surf now but I really fell in love with, bought all the stuff I needed and commit into it. Commit into surfing is also, from my point of view, after talking a lot with people, my coaches etc : reading and learning about the rules, how to read the conditions and the forecast, not putting yourself (and then probably the others) in danger... but when I see the attitude of some people who are beginners and just go to the water to "seem cool on the board", I can really understand the extreme localism... even though I think it's a shame when people can't make the difference between those guys and someone who isn't a local, not even a confirmed surfer, but who is putting a lot of effort to read the line-up, respect everything and not do any mistakes... That being said, I'm living for the first abroad surf trip of my life next week and this gets me a bit nervous... hope it'll be okay... if anyone has any knowledge of how it is in Sagres, Portugal, and any advice, well I'd take it with pleasure !
When kooks show up at our home break, and fall on the takeoff, or barrel dodge, or generally just waste waves, they only get 1 second chance that session. If they donkey out twice, they either need to move to a different peak, or get out of the water. There are far too many people who are brand new surfers and are trying to surf waves well above their ability. Don't take international surf trips to heavy spots if you suck at surfing, stay home and learn first.
I agree with you 100% in everything you said, I actually like localism in surfing and think earning your spot at the peak and having respect for the your elders and forefathers is something missing in society, and a huge part which makes surfing so special. I love the fact you have to work out so many factors (hazards, surf conditions, who the gnarly locals are, who the rippers are, whos dangerous and best steered clear of etc) by instinct in the water and adjust accordingly - it makes surfing such an amazing experience like no other
I try to get out in the lineup and greet everyone as I pass them. Then start pushing the waves that I pick to bigger and bigger as I cycle through the lineup. What get's me recently is the idea of proving myself with good waves. I end up getting in my head to impress others instead of just surfing for the fun of it and to see the personal progression. As I've been surfing some more crowded and contended lineups like JBay I've come back to my local spots a bit more jaded and also with a bit more domination in the lineup, kinda paddling past guys that I can see are still beginner/intermediate. But still, I am super respectful of etiquette. Even going out of my way to help others get good waves and to not snowball guys if I'm paddling on their inside.
![Hunxho - Ball Forever [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nki9ZTF9Uls/mqdefault.jpg)
A) Kooks need to learn the rules.
B) Salty seadogs need to chill and enjoy their time in the water.
I like it..
"Cops create hippies, hippies create cops"
-Be Here Now
@@peacedog315 I live on the west coast of vancouver island (Tofino/Ucluelet) and this describes my town exactly. In the 70s it used to be pretty lawless and full of hippies living on the beach, creating communes in the forest, protesting logging, etc. Now we get over a million visitors a year to a region of 8000 people. Now nimbyism, anti-van life, and local elitism dominate the town mindset. There is still a strong environmental flair though.
Damn right
you sum up perfectly :)))
You said it bro.
I've been surfing for 15 years from Australia to Brasil, Bali to Marrocco and of course Spain, France and Portugal. Most of the surfers are assholes. Everywhere the same. Never feel the tension, bad karma or even heard a bad word in other sport as on surfing. I'm feeling sadder in every session I take and I'm not very optimistic about the future of this sport.
You can only control what you can control 🙏🏽
It's the nature of the sport fighting for the same waves.
I think we will find as upcoming generations spend more time in the water & older generations less, this will become less of a mindset as we are used to surfing with larger crowds of new faces, in fact, a majority of my closest mates I met in the lineup
Brasil é tranquilão
Yep totally agree
the main problem in my opinion is, locals dont apply etiquette but expect non locals to do so. they snake everyone and since they are usually outnumbered non locals dont dare to have problems with locals. point breaks are the worst example of what localism looks like. there is no aloha spirit left in the sport, only greed and arrogance.
I think it's up to us to show that aloha to that asshole and remind them that the newbies are out here for the same reason (for the absolute stoke)... Just remind them that this person is new and its up to us to teach rather than berate.. idk that's my opinion. Even as a person who has been surfing for as long as I can remember I run into localism up and down the coast of cali and I just remind them politely that were all here for the same stoke and there is no need for anger or fear out in the ocean before someone gets hurt.
Yup, the locals gather out there in groups, once one goes in they all go in cause they have little dicks. If they paddle out and none of their friends are out they put their tale between their legs and obey lineup rules.
That’s obviously a major generalization. But we get your point.
The world is tough
That's laughable, at least in San Diego.
These 30-year old Covid kooks have no idea what etiquette is and when you try explain get all butt hurt. I've been surfing 25 years and I can count the times I have purposely burned someone on both hands.
I was out last week at a reef break and was catching my last wave in when these kooks paddle out of their soft-tops and one blatantly burns me. I call him off the wave with a little 'hey bro'. He falls and accidently shoots his board out at my face. No big deal right? I thought since he ruined my last wave I would catch another one in. Guess what? Him and his kook fuck friend start cussing at me about why did I call him off since he 'was going so good'. I fucking lost it. I have NEVER had someone burn me then cuss me out for calling him off. I told him I will burn him for the rest of the day, and will continue to do so whenever I see him again.
The problem is that back in the day (before everyone sued the shit out of each other) IF you said that to a local, then you were going to fight. Period. If you didn't want to fight you might catch a couple slaps and that would be it. Now everyone barks, nothing happens, and the passive aggressive cunts just burn each other. If you're new/learning, surf with modesty and don't fucking burn locals!
I've been looking for a way to offer a little praise to a 40-ish surfer with a heavy English accent who was surfing my home break on the east coast of Florida. He had a young grom steal one of his waves followed by a 20-ish fellow who stole the next wave. He paddled over to both of them and politely and calmly yet firmly explain that was his wave and why it was his wave. I missed the opportunity to paddle over and commend him. Kudos to you.
Us British surfers always do it right buddy 🤙🏻
@@Tommy.L4ng yeah yeah
idk man the lovely thing about east florida is when it's good you can go pretty much where ever you want 300 feet in either direction and have a wave to yourself if you aren't going to like one 5 super popular spots.
@@alvatrous same here in NC especially here in ocean isle but mostly we go to wrightsville beach or Carolina beach then the normal 4 hour drive to the OBX once a month
@@alvatrous like the beaches in France. The entire west coast is just one massive beach
As an adopted son of Bondi, my favourites are the ones who cruise out back on their longboard, grab the best wave by sitting 15m further out (because they can on their 10fter), then paddle straight back out to the exact same spot and catch the very next set wave, over and over again the entire time they're out there..
Call them out kindly
I have this same issue in Laguna Beach, CA! I really struggle with localism and STRONG entitlement that comes with the affluence of the area. People who appear to be beginner/intermediate will be on large foamies sitting way out back and going for every way. No regard for others in the line up who patiently wait and share.
THIS exactly lmao. Total lack of self awareness as well.
Luckily they can only do that when it’s small. Those types go missing when it’s six foot and heavy
@@wyatt5001 Where precisely in Laguna do you see this? The only place I can think of where people on large foamies hog the waves is at Anita Street, where instructors give lessons. Anita Street is recognized locally as the semi-official spot for beginners and lessons, thus etiquette is neither expected nor enforced. Locals avoid Anita Street for the most part.
That's why you can't put your identity on being a "surfer", they take it too seriously and it stops being fun. If you don't get paid to surf just relax and have fun.
u got no idea and non surfers like you are the problem
@@marcod9626 maybe the problem is people like you. They invent a standard to their convenience of who is a surfer and who is not, to later feel more important and with more rights than others. I've been surfing since I was 13 years old and I'm 37 if that makes me a surfer or not according to your standards, I don't really care. Just relax and have fun...
@@carlosgzambrana honestly carlos I think he read your comment wrong.
@@Nebulation I thought so, but according to him, people like me are the problem and that is only possible being in the line up as a "non surfer".
@@carlosgzambrana You don't have any idea and now your just babbling hipster BS
The only locals I'm afraid of are the ones with fins.
so body surfers 😂
Fear the Boogie men! 🤣😉🤣 #bodyboarders
🦈
@@mastersamurai7683 sharks
So are you telling me your body surfer then?
As I've gotten older, at crowded/localized lineups I set my expectations pretty low and almost always have a great session. When I expect a great session, I always undershoot.
That's the surfer's Murphy the slow man I just I just like hope hope that I would catch a wave and I don't really care if people are going and cutting in front of me and picking up speed I'm just thankful I can at least catch one wave on a good day cause I live so far away from the beach now
Gotta make that first wave count. If locals see you can surf they usually give you no trouble unless you're paddling for everything. Letting a non-local take a good wave is easier to swallow if they don't waste it. Also if you're at a spot where you aren't a local just sit under the main pack and take the ones that slide under them.
I hesitated to watch this video because I really enjoy your content but localism is a topic I'm really passionate about. As usual you did a good job of talking through it although I will say you were maybe overly positive towards the concept which seems to be a result of the fact that you, at some point in your life, were a "local." As someone who didn't have the opportunity to begin surfing until my mid 20's and spend the majority of my 20's landlocked the idea of localism has always perturbed me. A local is someone who is lucky enough to live near a wave that they can surf it everyday, me on the other hand had to travel over 2 hours to surf. Both of us are there because we love surfing so why should the person who is able to surf it more be given special privilege's over someone who has to invest more time and money to enjoy the same hobby? Also there are tons of videos and descriptions of surf etiquette and I think this is a great concept. But localism introduces a double standard to that set of rules. Imagine in driving had the same theory applied and people who travelled local roads more often didn't have to obey traffic signals if they thought the car across from them was from our of state. It's an absurd comparison but it shows some of the logical flaws of the concept and how this double standard can create dangerous situations. Now think of catching waves as currency and apply the concept. People who get a specific wave more often should be given priority over people who get that wave less often? This creates a disparity of wealth and increases not only the wave counts but the skill gap between locals and people who have to travel for surf making it harder to "impress a local by catching a good wave" which you suggested as a method to win over locals in your video. Luckily I'm in my 30's now and moved to the coast for the first time in my life a few months ago but since moving I've been called more than a few rude names by grouchy old men, even when following standard surf etiquette. The combination of these two ways of experiencing surfing have left me with little respect for the concept of localism. Hopefully there are more positive things going on elsewhere. Hopefully I'm not coming off argumentative here, this is just topic I have put a lot of thought into and think there needs to be more conversation about.
Its about putting in time at your new break...showing face and consistently paddling out good or bad conditions. U will get better that way and start to earn ur time. The grumpy old men been there for 30 or 40 yrs so u gonna have to understand that. Your car and currency analogies dont relate to surfing.
@@joshuamills7633 I think it's hard to understand if you've been lucky enough to have a local break and vice versa. But in the end you sound like you are respectful to anyone who paddles out as long as they return the favor which is how it should be. The negative side of localism, feeling entitled to waves regardless of etiquette or being rude to someone because you don't recognize their face, are the things that need to go. As for my specific circumstance I know there are only 2 or 3 people that surf who were born and raised here, the rest (including grouchy old man) are transplants just like me.
@@rksnote9635 Not going to waste time arguing over the internet but your generalizations don't apply to my circumstance. I think if you've been lucky enough to have a home break it's probably hard to understand and vice versa and we'll leave it at that. Good luck finding waves!
Every spot has a hierarchy which depends on who is in the water. locals that live near by as you put it tend to be in the water more therefore they're usually higher on the dominance hierarchy. As you show face and get better you will move up. This is everywhere in the world my friend. Also etiquette will be different at every spot because it's dictated by the people who spend the most time in the water. Essentially the culture of each spot is built around the people. There is no one size fits all etiquette. When you paddle out say hello and give respect to people who have been there longer than you. It's really simple. I say this after moving to the Hawaiian Islands and working my way up the pecking order for the last 4 years. I hope this helps. Thanks for reading my rant.
I agree, by I'm also a kook who's learning so happy to hear opinions - In a crowded Sydney beach etiquette seems to work i.e. don't drop in, don't snake (which I guess is my naïve opinion on etiquette) until a grumpy old local arrives and will literally say 'they own the waves'. I can agree with localism keeping people safe in dangerous conditions but the worst I have been abused is on a 1-2ft day when a grumpy old man needs to take the one wave that comes every 5 minutes. It seems to me a lot of the attitude is 'I've been a selfish prick who's screwed everyone over for years so I have a right to keep screwing people over for years to come' and 'the beach belongs to guys whose dads taught them to surf'. A lot of it seems like thinly veiled thuggery - I too have very little respect for localism.
The one defence I hear that really irks me is that if I pay my dues and show respect I can make it into this special club - and then what? I become someone who also snakes other people's waves and has zero regard for human decency because I know a few people in the line up who will back me up to bully someone. It seems a lot like the old boys school mentality where the oldest kids would bully and abuse the younger kids - the younger kids of course should 'take it in their stride' because in a few years they will be lucky enough to cause trauma to others. Seems abhorrent.
My son from mackay went down to Brisbane to see his sister this week. They went for a surf at snapper rocks. He is a 15 year old kid and he was appalled at how some of the locals treated him. Was verbally abused several times for being in the road. He is at an intermediate level but still sometimes finds himself accidentally in the wrong spot. By the same token he said there was one local there who was chill as and really encouraging and helpful so good and bad everywhere. Still disappointing that people think they can own the surf. It’s such a great sport and should be something we enjoy together without ownership. We were all kooks once hey🤙
We were all kooks yes! It’s never okay to get angry at a grom - that sucks
I’m just a grom as well but I totally agree🤙
It was probably occy. Everyone loves him until they surf with him in the lineup. Absolute nob jockey in the water.
What do you expect? Surfing one of the most hotly contested and crowded waves in the world and your expecting people to call your son into waves or get some sort of preferential treatment? Please, get real! I grew up on the GC, surfed all my life, 33, happens to everyone.
@@bh2861 lol Dunno what the hell you were reading, but that's not what he was saying at all
I've always wanted to surf & been bummed I don't live near an ocean. This video has made me grateful I have a snowy mountain to enjoy a board sport without any bs involved.
I surf a 9'0" Firewire in surf 2-6 foot at many different a point breaks as I enjoy the camping and surfing experience.
At 54 and fit I've caught thousands of good waves, however...
I can 100% state that I've earned more compliments from other surfers when I'm sitting out further than them and I indicate to that I'm letting great waves slide past me, to them on the inside.
Surfing to me is a respect sport... give more and feel happier.
And when you're camped in the car park it's amazing when they walk up to thank you for showing gentlemen's etiquette.
You are spot on Kale. We need more like you. Conscious Localism to me is regulating the break with fairness and maturity. Calling out people who ignore etiquette and letting the newbs know the regulars/locals won’t tolerate it. When the lineup is flowing we all cheer each other on. Even if we don’t know each other’s name. I’d be happy to share waves with you here in San Diego.
You have no authority to regulate anything - Karen !
I had an incident with a local where I caught a great wave, but fell after my bottom turn. He started yelling at me saying I’m not ready for that wave and to go away. It was a crowded line up, and I can understand their frustration of having so many people join a break that used to be their own. Luckily I watched you video about 2 months before this happened so I just moved to the side and let it go. My natural instinct would have been to stand my ground, but that would have taken me nowhere.
Thanks for sharing this! 🤙
I always thought the respect was for skill, which naturally is the few locals that generally dominate a spot. I can only remember a couple times I was shit on when I couldn’t make any sense of a skill related reason. When it was skill related I knew it and apologized, local or otherwise. I then thought about it for a couple days while surfing another area🥵. Thankfully I’ve passed the gauntlet of pure beginner, but not by any raging distance (depends on the break). I can say without question when I’m at a break and I’m in the above average skillset, it’s a very different experience than the flip side. So I still think this is largely skill based. My parting thought is be patient, think about your position in the culture and lineup where you are surfing, and do your best to be part of it vs. dipping in for the best days on your world travels and jetting along to the next great break. And don’t be a safety hazard. Surfs up🤙🏼😎
Surfing is the national sport for Karens.
I observed Localism way back in the year 2000, living on the Sunshine Coast QLD, I started surfing there in the 80's
It was such a relaxed vibe back in the 80's and 90's, with easy going surf etiquette and plenty of waves to go around.
By the turn of the millennium (20 years ago now) locals were being pushed out of their home breaks by rough heads and new arrivals.... drop ins, snaking and wave rage.
That's when surfing started becoming full tilt mainstream.
On a good day it was not uncommon way back then to see 30-40 surfers in the lineup at The Bluff, (nice long point break)
If its pumping you might get say 4 good waves per set, that's plenty of action for a handful of surfers, but when you get 30-40+ in the line up, that's a lot of competition for a ride.
For some, Caveman Mode kicks in, cos they know if they don't show some bravado they gonna miss out and spend the session just paddling around for nothing.
Riding a nice wave is almost orgasmic, that's why surfers are so pumped after a good sesh.
Feeling the energy of the water and tuning in to the vibration of that swell rising releases serotonin in your body.....it's a natural high :)
The ratio of waves to surfers is too unbalanced now days.
Commercialism + population growth = Corporate profits + Surfer frustration
Start a surfing reserve at your local to preserve what's left of it no matter how shit and crowded, they did it on the Gold Coast recently the developer's still got in though and 'improved' the whole thing with double width concrete slab footpaths etc.
in Hawaii you got to go bodyboarding and UFC fighting on the same beach...i had a great childhood
That’s where max Holloway and bj penn learned to fight
The amount of rationalization for one’s own dickishness is amazing….
It’s a “toxic mindset”.
Yes. Surfers are Karens.
Surf on weekday evenings and stay away from the weekend in the summer time.
At my beach the locals are friendly and helpful. It's the 40 year old men with the 40 foot boards that start the crap from the inland cities.
May I add, surf more in the winter.
Surfing is an individual sport. Each individual is their own team. What happens when you put 50-hundreds of teams playing in the same field is quite chaotic. I agree with Kale, and in crowded lineups I am also unforgiving and make sure I look after myself, but also try to be humble unless provoked.
I surf a spot where it's kooks only, and we smash up anyones car who doesn't surf a softtop or can go down the line.
😂😂😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣
bet ya down a king brown like a legend tho😉🤟🏾
What do you do when you travel to score other places. Is that what you want to happen to you. You must be bored of your local break. If you travel by yourself with respect you will have no problem . Just don't paddle straight to the lineup, sit on the shoulder and wait your turn and don't act aggressive. Plain and simple common sense that you take with you every where you go in life. Ya , I know you were kidding anyway.
LMAO
I surf a very busy wave and often deal with people who paddle straight to the inside or are slightly better than everyone else and so think they deserve the best waves. I’m generally a pretty nice and approachable guy but I’ll happily drop in on people who do this, not because I’m ripping or because I’m a heavy local (I am a long time local btw) but because I give the same as I get. If you think you’re going to get away with being a dick, then you’ll probably get the same treatment no matter where you surf. If I don’t know you and you snake me, I’m gunna drop in simple as that. Just be respectful when not surfing “your local” and 99.99% of locals will be the same back.
There are some comments suggesting that bad localism "is just the way it is" because there are only so many waves to go around. But that just so simply does not have to be the case. For example, rock climbers compete for a route but are so generous and willing to share gear and cheer each other on. It is such a supportive sport with limited space to climb. Surfers are the worst, I've had many sessions ruined by guys yelling at me after they cut me off.
Rocks stay there and are always the same I guess 🤷🏼♂️
Waves are a finite resource though, so it’s not apples to apples. A rock wall is always there
understanding sport is about being humble practicing it regardless of your skill (as great champions in many sports have shown). Surf needs to step up its game
Yes. That's why I bodysurf. I only have a small group of bodysurfers at my break and the surfing zone is super crowded
Bodyboarders are the worst locals...especially by treating surfers.
@@Leon-wf9wn Not bodyboard, bodysurf. Bodysurfers are legends.
I did exactly the same. Avoiding the confrontation and enjoying a loooot more!
In my experience there are quite a few beginner surfers who just won't learn to look and pull back off a wave unless someone unfamiliar yells to make them aware to not drop in. It just seems to take a certain type of person a long time to learn that lesson unless there are unpleasant consequences. It's a matter of character because not all beginners do that. Having said that, you can be firm without being nasty, that's a matter of character too.
Perfect!
I think you will lose anyone if you are yelling at them. I am a woman, but when I was a girl I was boogie boarding and I was only 12 years old but strong swimmer and I was out where the surfers were. I had this guy scream at me that I was doing it wrong, mind you I was catching waves and getting very good rides. He told me I was too young to be out there, to get off his waves, and then another surfer defended my right to be there and a big fight started. Had he been nicer to me and told me what I was doing wrong versus right I might have been willing to listen but he was an arrogant a$$ so I didn't listen. Consequently, he was right I was riding them wrong LOL I was going over the falls and while I did get a lot of good rides I also ate it a bunch of times. haha
@@vaskylark I don't mean yelling but just a shout to let someone know that you are already on the wave. Dropping in is the best way to ruin everyones session but some beginners don't know what that means until someone tells them.
@@stokes58 Well I agree, but don't get mad because groms don't know unless taught, and ya can't teach anything if you lose your temper and tell someone 'girls don't belong out here' which this guy did, they will just keep right on droppin in on your wave.
@vaskylark I never blame the young groms who are still learning because you see dads out there with their kids and it’s almost like the crowd is invisible to them. Everyone loves their kids and wants them to get waves and have a good time but I don’t understand what it is with the generation that are now roughly between the age of 35-40 that makes them so entitled. Do they even realise they’re putting their kids in a potentially dangerous situation every time they tell them “go, paddle, paddle” and push them into a wave that’s already being surfed by someone who waited their turn? Not just the potential for someone to be hurt in an accident but also in the future when they’ve been trained to ignore other surfers and take whatever they want; they won’t be frothing groms whom we all give the benefit of the doubt forever and that behaviour that has the potential to lead to nasty accidents today will eventually lead to nasty non-accidental injuries on the beach tomorrow and it’s not even their fault, it’s those shitty parents. I don’t know what has happened to teaching kids respect. I mean if not out of consideration for others then at least teach them for the sake of self preservation. The surf dads of today will destroy surfing tomorrow.
Hey man I gotta say as a local of the Byron area (broken head) when I saw you surfing around here, you were definitely taking more than your share of waves. The insight here is on point, but maybe just be weary of your own skill and ability to perhaps unintentionally overpower other people in the water. Not trying to attack you here, everything you said was on point. Just be weary! Cheers
Hey mate! I always respect line up etiquette but in crowded spots I am unforgiving and assertive but I hope never greedy 👊🏾 if I’m one of the few who can make it past the sweep and that results in me sitting up the top for the good ones then so be it 🤷🏼♂️
@@KalesBroccoli Good response I get both your points of view but I came to realise recently that if I start to get annoyed by someone else getting more waves the answer is to step up my game and get better (or/and move positions in the water) and not direct my frustration (with my own ability which is really what is happening) at someone else - improved my surfing loads
Don't surf here, but if you do. Don't catch too many waves?
It's the kind of simple mentality that makes it easy to surf around locals anywhere.
To bad your not as good as some other surfer, so call them out and blame them for being better, more athletic and catching more waves than you.
Locals just never seem to be the smartest. Just lucky to have a wave near by that they can beat there chest to is not enough.
You got to bitch and belly ache your first world problems to anyone that will listen to you.
Great video mate - you hit the nail on the head with "some locations are a last resort". Surfed a crowded Burleigh heads at age 17, waited 45 mins until everyone inside me had gotten a wave, a local who id seen on every wave from the top of the point had just kicked out and proceeded to drop in on my patiently earned in-betweener and threatened to drown me for trying to surf past him... Props to one of the other surfers in the lineup - also a local who came over and made sure I was okay! - big lessons learned that day.
One of the worst spots for it
Yep that totally sums up Burleigh heads I have seen exactly the same.
I feel like dropping in on them on purpose.
Seeing you woud have lots of beginners watching your youtubes, please do an episode on how to look around to avoid dropping in, avoid surfers paddling out, and not bailing the board so you dont kill people. Thankyou.
That would be good, me and my family have just started to learn how to surf, and we are of to on a surffing holiday next month for some fun in the sea. I certainly dont want to put anyone at risk.
The beach is not yours Karen.
This literally just happened to me today in L.A. My local break was small so I went to a different beach where it was a bit bigger and even though I didn't drop in on the guy, we both paddled for a wave at the same time and other guy stood up first, and I didn't pull out/didn't see him standing up first. Partially my fault, but him and his pals where talking a bit about "I must not be from around there" when Ironically, I have been surfing that beach since 1995 but not on the regular, which seemed to shut them up. The whole interaction killed my vibe tho- My problem with "Locals" is the belief in ownership...
You don't own the Ocean, Champ.
Spot on...
As a local in my home break I'd define it as protecting against visitors that don't apply etiquette, usually observed on groups of friends. All the others are welcome!
Yeah that's fair enough
💯
You are a Karen.
Nice video ;).
I am a surf coach and I usually explain to my students why some people can react like bad when they see newbies to the spot. Imagine you are cooking at home, it smells good, you left the door slightly open and the smells goes on the street. I pass on the street and smelling this incredible meal, I enter your house, without knocking, without saying hello, sit on the table and say "hey, when is dinner". Everybody would get mad :).
Better to take time, say hi, observe, wait a bit and then every normal person will let you surfing. Of course everybody has the right to surf but with a common sense of respect.
I live in the Canary Island where small locals (a tiny group) can be very aggressive but I never had to fight... 🤙🤙
A better way is to say - Surfers are just a bunch of rabid Karens. The beach is not your private kitchen.
This is super insightful. All the things I've often thought about... and probably been guilty of myself before.
Very clearly analyzed and expressed on all points. Surfed one break for 15 years and saw
the changes in crowd size. I think the surf reports online, helped make folks more aware,
by advertising the spot and also the cams. I try to adjust as best as I can ( not easy ).
Less experiences in my cruise into nature with not many around-- gotta be more careful of the clueless, hot shots,amped agros, etc. I have a feeling the surf high, in combo with slight anxiety, greed, ......you name it, opens a direct door ( for some ) to a room in the brain, where ego is king.
Screw that-- I give waves to the blokes, I know have been waiting too long. I
get high off of that too.
Kale, thanks brother. Everywhere you go now with decent waves the crowds are there. Even cold water spots like Ocean Beach, San Francisco have changed significantly in popularity. Like many beaches when its double overhead and ice cold, the fair weather, 2 foot crowd and pumping crew is nowhere to be found.
Fyi I have a great day at ' work' on those days nah. But some do have bosses that surf so you have to excuse some people
Great content. Raised some very valid points. But you would never pull into a queue at your local servo and park in front of the guy who’s just filled his tank. 👀. Everyone needs to have an open understanding that society works best when we understand law and order but also practice kindness while doing it.
There is no law regulating access to waves surfing Karen.
9:55 I've literally never once seen any other kind of localism but this. Also the kind that just burn everyone on every wave and then get mad at you for being in the way when they eventually cutback
@@joshuamills7633 Nice! I've definitely seen people who are always at the same spot, but they never really enforce make any kind of strict etiquette or line up rules. They usually just mind their own business and wait for the set that roles in every half hour. Idk if that makes them "locals" or not, but by regular human definition that's clearly their local break. Also this is kinda random but how do you become a local somewhere? Like if you've just moved there
@@joshuamills7633 Also locals I encounter definitely make it clear that different rules apply in the water, but those rules only benefit them and nobody else. Usually it's something like "older guys always have right of way" or "you get the wave if you start paddling first and if you surf here 7 days a week"
@@joshuamills7633 yeah for sure. I live in La tho so we don't really have any uncrowded breaks. Except for like 2 but those only break when it's a big swell. Any other day and you have situations like the clip from Kirra all the time. Except that wave is obviously 20 as good as any break in La
Sup Kale, here's the thing here in Baja Mexico, we get a lot of gringos (US surfers) MOST we come in contact with (doesn't matter if you've had a house on the cliff for years or just roadtripping by) feel like they can do whatever they want and don't follow surf etiquette at all, paddling straight to the point as soon as they enter the water as well as not following line up order so this is why things escalate, you will probably get screamed at if you paddle, drop in or snake someones wave, if you don't fall in line after a warning get ready to get dropped in or continuously blocked, worst case scenario you can get a scratched car or deflated if not slashed tires...or beat up
So as in most places doesn't matter if you are pro level, just say Hi when arriving and follow common surf guidelines and you'll be ok "Give respect, get respect"
💯 be a nice person
Surf in Olympics games 2021 + Surf Gardens getting builtr round the world, be ready for an even greater rise of crowd in next two years ...
Maybe. But one could also make the argument that, as more and more wave pools get built, it’ll dilute the number of surfers at the actual breaks. Especially those who are now making the beach drive from far inland.
@@jblo76 Dont be hurt, but just dream about !
Offce job is the past moost people can just work from anywhere now a days, especialy those who can afford expensive wave pool sessions. An the less wealthy do have time thanks to state benfit, therefor more free time.
I'm thinking more aggro localism like knocking somebody out or breaking a window on a car or other bad stuff. A couple of dude sneaking waves it's not localism to me that's art of surfing. FWIW
Part of surfing. Not art. Although in tribute to a famous East Coast Legends android place.... Surfing is a Natural Art
63-0 Likes to dislikes. I was wondering if you were going to point out the Stab video. Totally agree about positive localism in regulating lineups because I don't think there is anything more dangerous than a crowded lineup with good waves and 4-8 people paddling in with people on the inside. Definitely had that positive experience at my local break in Hawaii when I started surfing.
The issue extends beyond surfing.
The planet is over populated… exponential population growth is ruining quality of life. The more humans, the less freedom and the more we must compete for limited resources.
I feel bad for the youth of 100 years from now.
That's it exactly. Keep spitting out babies! This planet is already overburdened to the brink! It won't be much longer now
It actually scares me to think what this planet would be like in a 100 years. Pollution, sea levels rising and the weather getting more extreme I dread to think, just glad I or any of my family won't be around.
Oh and that's if it does last another 100 coz a world war 3 would wipe out most human anway
ur actually so right
populations in the west are decreasing though.
You nailed it on the head mate.
Had to deal with this earlier today in Malibu, The 2 foot warriors Thought they owned the beach 🏝 I’m all
About peace ☮️ but definitely encouraged them To take it to the sand 😆👊🏾
Hey Kale! I'm curious, have you come across any pushback or negativity from other surfers because of your fame as a surf coach or someone who encourages new surfers to get into the water?
Yes. Mostly in Sydney. But don’t attack the man with the microphone or else he’ll share GPS coordinates to your “secret spot” 😂
@@KalesBroccoli A few years ago, I saw fliers posted for driving alone, to clog the car park. Anti car pool fliers.
@@jimmccarley9609 That's honestly a great idea. All spots have a limit of how many people they can handle
@@mattevans3203 thats why surffing is such a great sport to take up as there is hundreds of places to go and check out. 👍
The point made around 8:14 about your experience in Sydney and the more general psychology of greed and mistrust is a point well made. Scarcity is an emotional response and empathy and generosity require the punctuation provided my the rational mind. Not always easy but a good reminder to look beyond the myopic frustration of other people taking 'your' waves or being turds about others taking 'theirs'.
"Healthy barrier to entry" is a good way to put it
Hello Karen.
I enjoyed this video Kale. I couldn’t help but notice that every time you tried to speak about the positive aspects of localism, you had to look down at your prompts. I don’t blame you. Hard to find the positives on what’s typically negative behavior. It’s so ironic that we deal with some such rubbish behavior while taking part in an activity that’s so pure and awesome.
Love your work.
How about the antithesis to the topic... in all places I’ve surfed I have never had issues with local crew. Perhaps I could gauge my own abilities and stamina at any given time and I made an effort to get to know few locals. I know this is not the case everywhere.
However, I’ve surfed in Norway too. Generally very polite and respectful people in and out of the water. What I saw with my own eyes and experienced was - at some point there were couple of Brazilians - started to show up. And the vibe has changed because of the way they were acting. They were going on every single wave they could and could not get into, had facial expressions as if they are super serious and angry, never talked to anyone, never smiled... and within a month there were angry comments and tension from local surfers (and other visiting foreigners). So, sometimes this “localism” can get triggered by non-locals.
Surfers are huge Karens.
I surf locally most of the time at a normally uncrowded [by Sydney or GC standards] spot and most surfers know each other by sight if not by name however there are still those surfers that have to go every wave that comes along. One of my good friends is a really nice bloke but just cannot help himself and goes everything in a frothing, focussed way, not intending to burn anyone. You have to call out to him or he just doesn't realise that you are there sometimes. Since lockdowns I have seen localism issues between locals that just normally surf at different times of the day usually and don't normally see each other, haha. Great stuff Kale.
the whole thing you said about Sydney surfers being greedy and "needing to prove something" is so true, you can genuinely see it in the way they move through lineups and even just how they surf, its truly sad how popular that kind of etiquette has become in Sydney (particularly in the northern beaches)
I grew up with Warriewood as my local beach (mid-‘70s - early ‘80s) and sort of in the second generation of “Warriewood Animals.” With decades of reflection behind me I can see how we took it too far at times with intimidation in the water and on the beach.
Just stupid shit like throwing rubbers filled with water from the little cliffs above the parking lot, the insanely ignorant setting off the shark alarm to clear the lineup except for our group, even burning old “planks” on the rocks by the point and chanting some nonsense.
On the other hand we were the ones cleaning up all the trash they left before heading back to (we of course assumed) the Western Suburbs, etc..
We feuded with the “Clubbies” even more, though, and the rumour was one of the five or six Robson brothers or a flat crazy bloke, “Cockroach” (who died very young joyriding behind Graham Robson whilst on acid on a stolen motorbike) who burned down the Clubhouse in the very early ‘80s.
I moved to Venice Beach at 18 and surfed all over Southern Coastal California for twenty odd years, so was never a local, per se. It wasn’t as crazy as on the Northern Beaches, but we mostly steered clear of Ventura County and Rancho Palos Verdes which are notorious for messing with non-locals.
Excuse the bit of a rant, there, mate...cheers.
It's like that everywhere
@@davidgodoy1943 pretty much
Great comments at the end. Localism drop ins is not respectable at all and not leading by anything close to a fair example. Everyone says how bad it is to see a wave go to waste as another excuse to drop in on a beginner or an unrecognised surfer. This is such a floored argument, I feel letting go of waves is what we as surfers have to work on, like letting go of anything we love is hard. We all have to share and enjoy each other’s thrills and spills not be so greedy and selfish not matter where we live or how long we have surfed there for
I watch Kale’s channel specifically to learn surf etiquette and technique. I am the guy who vacations from Arizona and picked up a board in the last 24 months because the opportunity was there and I’d always wanted to learn. The most difficult part of surfing has been the social aspect. Surfers in Southern California do not help people like me become introduced to surfing. They don’t take a leadership role and welcome and educate us. So, I do what I can to recognize and avoid getting in anyone’s way while taking advantage of the few opportunities that my skill level and limited time at the break provide me.
We’ll mainly it’s because we’ve all gone through the shit ourselves (getting out-paddled for waves, being at the bottom of the pecking order, and yes getting burned by other surfers). There aren’t enough waves to go around in SoCal as it is, so why would you expect an out-of-stater to get such a warm welcome and special treatment. Hate to say it, but part of learning to surf is going through that initial shitstorm and being exposed to the uglier side of the culture. I’m not saying that locals should break common etiquette by any means. In fact I’m usually quite amiable to visitors. But many of us have seen transient surfers or beginners come and go who are often quite obnoxious or clueless in the lineup so trust for newbies is already low. No one’s going to hold your hand through this. You’ve got to put in your time.
Hey madame from California and I told you understand your perspective and I and IA 120% agree with you a lot of california's are really mean to outside locals or outsiders who have no etiquette but I guarantee you if you ask nicely and just tell people Hey what waves and where everything is and where your spots are people are really friendly but it's just like some weird tribalistic But in reality we all started off as cooks with no educate for the most part unless you grew up in the beach I always asked and I learned as I went on but you know certain movies teach you that stuff too you see the locals and the cooks fighting and I always said I never wanted to be the cook so you know it's where your heads at and how much you want to learn but there's plenty of RUclips channels that will teach you more etiquette and technique if you need that don't let those California S bringing you down man just keep surfing and if you have to have a few friends with you and be jerks to them, they back down
a Good point you made is about how peoples actions is a reflection of their personal state of mind, screaming at people or damaging their property is what I call a low form of communication and any respectable human is better than that. As a Sea Rescue crew member, a surfer and Coach I aspire to be a good example for others. life should not be taken too seriously
And how about surf schools. My local beach break is busy with surf lessons. It's crazy. And instructors dont care, push learners into waves that are already taken,etc... So local business is against local surfers big time... It's so frustrating.
I agree instructors can be unfairly dominant. Especially when the good spots on a break are limited, they put their class on the best spot and tell other surfers to pick a lesser one for "safety".
As a bodyboarder, I multiply all expectations of negativity and localism by a factor of 10, keep my expectations low and my head down, haha. Respect where it's due, be aware of your surroundings and also, a major major point here is the importance of and the often lacking of EMOTIONAL INTELLIGENCE. Being good at dealing with yourself and other people eases a lot of this.
I was out at San Onofre (where I've been a bazillion times) and I had a girl pull a pretty nasty snake on me, so of course I didn't let her get away with it and I dropped in. It wasn't dangerous or anything, just holding my ground. Right afterward some dude I have never seen before starting yelling at me about how us "riverside people" (riverside is the inland area about an hour drive, but nope, I live real close) need to get out of their way and how I'm messing with the flow. Didn't even let me explain what had happened. I went off on this asshole, and I'm pretty sure I made him so mad that he tried popping my tires in the lot. It was crazy to me that at the break I'm a surefire local to, this could happen. There's definitely a balance to localizing a spot to keep the idiots from ruining everyones time, but what I'm seeing now is too far.
Dropping in after getting dropped in on…never a good approach (though most of us have been guilty of it at one time or another). As for that guy, it’s like the NBA - the refs are always gonna see and penalize the player who retaliates and T him up…not the instigator. Who knows if that guy knew her or just saw you snake (and didn’t see hers). Anyway, I know what you’re saying about San O. I also live close and surf there pretty regularly but the so-called “locals” who think they own it are annoying as fuck. Helps when there’s a massive swell to thin out the crowd and more peaks to go around.
In Rockaway beach, Queens, NYC, my sense is that we don't have a problem with localism, because there are so many people here. Who can tell who's local or not? There's even a surf school here called, "The Locals", as though being a "local" was the greatest aspiration a student could achieve. Another reason localism isn't likely a problem here, is that the real surfers only come out when it's brick outside, cuz that's the season when you find the big waves. I appreciate your discussion about it. I often find surfers a bit arrogant, but I think you make a good point about how it's a particularly weird sport. It's all good. Stay safe and thanks for your great videos.
I think a lot of "anger" in the water has to do with the increase of people in the water that don't know the rules, and beginners/beginning-intermediates thinking that they are already really good surfers. In sessions where both these things don't happen, it seems like everyone is having the best of times and biggest smiles. Both locals and non-locals.
I'm a beginner at a spot with a pretty stable local crew... I was extremely apprehensive of localism when going out on my big round-nosed yellow board 😅
But a few back to back days in the water and some friendly conversation/banter and now I feel recognised and welcome.
Im more on the local side with my break i always go to and this really helped me realize more of the impact that localism has. Im not a very aggressive surfer but it is definitely more fun to have a spot with a community you know, but to force people out of the water just isnt cool.
Some kooks make the lineup dangerous though. Especially the standup paddle kooks who don’t know that they’re doing.
Learned how to surf in Myrtle Beach, SC and ended up living in San Diego for four years. Took a long break between surfing in high school (2014) and getting back into it (2021) and I expected a lot of localism and issues trying to pick it back up in San Diego. I can say, out of most of the places I’ve surfed, the locals have been some of the most welcoming and understanding people I’ve surfed with. I’ve definitely had my kook moments (dropping in, unknowingly snaking) but even when it happens I just approach that surfer with a humble “I’m sorry” and most the time get greeted with a “no problem dude, just pay more attention”. Locals and experienced surfers for the most part understand that people learning are gonna fuck up. And as long as you apologize and are humble about your fuck up, most the time you’re gonna be alright. Honestly, the locals here have given me way more advice and have taught me so much more than any RUclips video I’ve watched.
what i see a lot is non-locals paddling out and taking sets like they own the place, which pisses off the locals and leads to mouthing off and all the rest. my guess is that many people, who are upset by what they perceive as unfair localism, are actually not acknowledging how their actions may have contributed to a confrontation. so many inexperienced surfers paddle out at difficult spots, snake, drop in, get in the way, and then can't understand why someone, who may or may not actually be a local, gets pissed off. that said, there are always arseholes who also happen to be locals; and you can bet that the other locals don't appreciate them either ;)
Great points. Applicable pretty much everywhere and California in particular.
Thought provoking for sure. Surfing can be almost a spiritual experience at times but not when you are surrounded by a bunch of arseholes, or worse still, behaving like one your self. Always try to keep the vibe positive and if it isn't go somewhere else or come back another time. It can be done.
i started surfing in southern California in 1970 , and localism has always been around . my family surfed, my dad did in the 50tys and my older brothers taught me the surfing etiquette rules. I also could not go try and surf the better spots tell i progressed as a surfer. i did not try to, but if i had i would have been dealt with by those who surf that spot all the time. it was small groups of people who all new each other back then and they almost always only surfed their spots, and i saw many a surfer come out and not give any respect and just try and take over the wave. Those people got beat up ,kicked out of the water, and had rocks thrown at them with everyone yelling go home kook, even if they were good surfers. but if some one showed up and could surf and gave respect they eventually were allowed to surf no problems. things started changing in the 80's as surfers started traveling to other spots more , and surf fights started being prosecuted in courts, more slack was allowed. So as i improved i went to the better waves and i gave respect and stayed at the back of the odder and was excepted every time. As years went by i became one of the main locals , mostly because everyone new how i was. People who surf a wave every day , know the wave better than others and have put in the time to be able to get more respect than some one how just shows up and wants the best waves. Over the years i have seen it all , but other people in the water is just part of it these days . The older local surfers in an area need to help others learn and not be a problem in the water but understand that yeah there will not be as many waves but we can all have fun. because being a crazy local isn't fun either, it just feeds a over inflated ego, and destroys the session for everyone. I find the best surfers tend to be nice people and they find the best waves. I think the biggest thing is if respect is given it is given back maybe not right away but it will happen
Karen.
@@martina5328kook get out of the way
Its one thing for the Salty Seadogs to do their thing when its like 6-8ft and pumping, Ive encountered hella aggressive surfers on 1ft beach breaks.. which is kinda pathetic imo.
East coast USA , hot breaks are war zones during summer months.
1 - 3 ft solids being snaked get people hurt fast.
@onox I can imagine you in the line-up.
You can’t relate to the frustration because you’re on a 10ft mal 20m further out than everyone else. You think it’s all about wave size/quality but that’s only because the bigger and more throwing the surf is, the closer you are to people on smaller boards because of the nature of the breaking wave in that situation therefore: “I can understand when the salty sea dogs do their thing when it’s like 6-8ft” because in those situations, you’d have to put up with it too when there isn’t 20m separating your take off zone and those who recognise you from the smaller days when conditions permit you to snake the line-up on you fucking kayak… they have a chance to dose you with your own medicine
@@damson140 haha nope bro, I'm usually on my trustie 5,4" Hypto, working on my air revs on close out shories as well man, those mofos on 10ft logs who stand up 10 seconds before it breaks are very annoying I know.. seen agro dudes like that as well.. My point is legit anyone, if your a bodyboarder or a fken stand up paddle boarder.. If your getting aggressive at people on a 1ft beach break, I'm kinda just laughing at you. we all are.
My point is people with the mindset 1-2ft = “fuck etiquette”
6-8ft = “oy, pull your head in”
Are bad for the sport. It’s a selfish perspective that results most likely from bad parenting.
The most confusing part is when it’s pumping there are more waves to go around and less begginers/intermediates in the lineup and generally more of a paddle back to the peak therefore more time for the lineup to rotate smoothly. I personally deal with less bullshit when it’s pumping. Small days are actually more frustrating when you take all of that into account?
Best video topic for commenting bait haha. Good one! Dam you got me too! I've never had a local break as I'm some distance to any break, and I can say as a non-local just about everywhere I go, if you have can decently rip and understand/pratice the local etiquette, you'll be fine. You'll get snaked when it's crowded. Find yourself a less crowded spot if you don't want to get snaked or risk getting tangled with a less skilled rider. And I really liked your point at the end where you say you wouldn't want this surfing eutopia (@12:20) out there b/c it can get pretty chaotic otherwise. So, maybe hug a local next time you're out...nah don't do that.
😂
another great video. just started surfing so I'm trying to learn everything I can about etiquette and being a conscious person in the water. thanks!
I live in Sydney northern beaches as well , I've been surfing at my local beach for 2.5 years now, from total beginner to intermediate, at first most locals had a vey arrogant attitude towards beginner me. But after grinding my surfing and improve quite significantly whilst being respectful in the lineup I "earned" a do called respect from them and get more good waves that I would usually do, also joining the boardriders helped even more.
I’m in North San Diego County. The problems I see are with the NON locals that never bothered to learn any surf etiquette. I guess they don’t teach that at the Waco Wave Pool.
When I'm at sano I try to best to explain to people what they did wrong if they did something wrong and most of the time they're absorbent and stop making the mistake for the rest of the day. Most locals are lovely at sano. I've only had a few bad experiences and it was with people I've never seen before.
Surfing makes you happy that’s why we do it. I find that no matter where I go, no matter how crowded the surf is respect goes a long way when traveling. My first session in a crowded lineup is is spent just sitting and chatting. If it’s a point break, I start at the bottom and as the guy ahead of me catches a wave, I move up to the next guy and chat with him. Till I eventually reach the outside and wait for the guys to eventually give me a wave. I make sure to make that wave count. T rat of the day give wave to everyone, hang out and compliment every ride. By the next day, you will start catching more and more waves. Give positive energy and you will get it back in spades.
Surfing good and charging also helps your cause.
I’ve also spent a day just filing the locals and sharing clips. Purchase beers for the boys after a session.
@@duaneKENNY ok that’s a little much
@@jblo76 Right on ! whats next !...h...d job? haha!
I surf at a heavy local spot. A shallow reef break that can handle up to triple overhead and it's a dangerous location. For us, it's a combination of safety and respect. Like someone else mentioned it's the ones who paddle out with a sense of entitlement that triggers all of us. Why on earth would you paddle out and immediately try and catch the first waves you see & not expect localism? Communicate. Ask if the guy next to you is going. They might not be paddling yet because they don't need to. They just need to turn around and go.
Never ever burn the old guys in the lineup. If they're paddling for a wave it's because it's one they know they can actually catch and it's rarely the best wave. Let them go. You won't see them for a while because it takes us forever to paddle back out :-)
The thing I tell unknowns the most is don't get in the way. If you're getting in the way you're going to get sent in.
"don't get in the way".... What if these newcomers can actually bring a new way of surfing to that spot that no local ever figured out? Why is it that locals think they own the spot? I understand safety and respect, but what you just described is "2000% respect for the locals, -50% respect for newcomers" and safety is just an excuse to kick out people
@@bekawak6529 Well, getting in the way is dangerous. A new person hasn't figured out a better spot to catch the waves. There's a reason no one else is sitting in the heavy drop in zone on certain days. If someones constantly getting in the way they're doing something wrong.
Better to sit wide or on the beach and watch and learn a spot. Yes, 100% respect for the locals. I do the same when I travel. It's their home break and who am I to think I'm just going to paddle out and paddle battle them for every wave I see?
The respectful newcomers get plenty of nice waves. I was once one at my local break. Some breaks are complicated and they take years to master if ever.
Paddling out somewhere new and demanding respect rarely ends well.
Giving respect goes a long ways.
Happy surfing...
@@lavapix What you are describing is a dreamlike situation because, in reality, even if you don't get in the way, you are in the way. Why is it that locals think they can catch a wave, paddle out and catch the next wave they see? There is a priority that is equal for EVERYONE!!!!!! I don't know if you skateboard, but man, I skated for 12 years and I NEVER encountered a toxic attitude like I see in surfing. Locals are toxic even towards other locals! Its not about being local and knowing the place and being safe and respectful, for them, its about being the top priority surfer, catching every wave, getting in the way of everybody (except those locals they are afraid to beaten by... pussies) and getting mad when someone gets in their way.. Come one, it's dictatorship. I understand what you are saying when you are respectful on a new beach you don't know (and that's the way it should be) but who says you can't learn the spot in one day and sit out with the locals that same day, and ride the same waves as they do, as well, or even better than them? That's the issue for me, they have to approve a newcomer in order to surf with them... That's not the way it should be. That's not a way in skating... We motivate newcomers to ride the same obstacles we do in the skatepark or in the local spot. We don't kick them out and tell them that the spot is OURS. Surfing has a really toxic mentality for some of them out there. Even here in Terceira island, Azores, the locals are hostile against younger locals that they don't know... Its despicable and I shit on their faces... I have as much right to surf those waves as them. The Ocean is nobody's property and these arrogant men forget that the only thing they need to have respect in this sport is for the Ocean... Horrible mentality that is lived in surfing. No room for learning or educating, just kicking out...
@@bekawak6529 You keep throwing in scenerios that just don't fit so I'm not going to address them all.
Not sure where you surf but you're only in the way if you're actually in the way. As for the few locals who think every wave is their wave, that doesn't sit well with the rest of us and they are dealt with just like anyone else. But that's very rare because we have order and respect where I surf.
Like another commented, if you don't have rules of etiquette you have chaos.
Chaos leads to injuries.
Don't like the rules enforced at a spot, there are plenty of other breaks where chaos rules you can go to and enjoy.
You call it dreamlike and I live it as a reality.
Dreaming is thinking you're going to figure out a crowded tough break in a day :-) You also need to know the other surfers too. Lots of variables at play.
Paddling out with a sense of entitlement amongst people who prefer to earn never plays out very well for the entitled ones.
@@lavapix You sound like the ones who are entitled and catch much more waves than others. And when someone wants to catch a wave that you think you were entitled to catch, you teach them "respect" which is basically telling them to leave. What do you mean when you say a guys paddles out with a sense of entitlement? If you mean a guy who just wants to catch the same waves you are catching and is new to the spot, then you are a hell of a local snake
Mate, it's 2 years later on the Northern Beaches, and it's even worse now. 10am on a workday, breaks like Bungan and Tuzz - places that don't even have parking lots - and there's 20 or 30 guys out on 2ft slop. This never used to happen.
No doubt "locals" have done some travel for surf in their time. There is no good or bad in karma, just cause and effect.
Keep spreading the good vibes Kale🤙
A long time ago I was paddling out at a spot new to me and was too far inside on the wrong break. A "local" kid with a really bad attitude started screaming at me and tried to surf right across my back. Fortunately I got scared, leaned back, and our boards hit and both lost a little foam. I paddled out as fast as I could, and I am so thankful that another "local" came out to protect me from the first guy who wanted to beat me up. It still scares me to think about being a kid and having someone trying to physically hurt me over waves that weren't even that good at a public beach. I admit my fault for being in the wrong spot, and screwing up the etiquette, but I don't know worth trying to give someone scars over.
Surfers are just a bunch of Karens.
Same at here in bali we the local dont have the spot for surf anymore full of tourist, expats(they dont wanna call themself imigran even they live in bali 20 years already), russian surf Coach (illegal dont have working visa) my opinion is localism is needed sometime 😉
NAh Rusian probably like to learn from some one who speaks russian leave them alone
Western countires have nbeen floooded with people who shouldn't be here but if we call them imigrants its racist
@@VeganArtAdventure You sound like a xenophobe with no understanding of colonialist history.
@@VeganArtAdventure so are you immigrant or expat? Because from my Experience in western country live there for 1 year and i still holding Indonesia passport they dont call me expat 🤷🏾♂️
@@VeganArtAdventure but they dont have working visa in Indonesia why not give that job to local Indonesia have local knowladge
I am proud to say we have conscious localism here at our inland river wave. The line up over all is supportive of new people especially visitors. As I was learning years ago, a few would even coached me and are now some of my favorite surfers to share the wave with!! So I can’t help but pay that forward, as you can see in my surf videos I’m only an intermediate river surfer but can still offer tips to newbies and visitors. Plus the relationships we make there make our localism something I am very proud to be a part of. Great video and btw your content has helped me improve my surfing. Your pretty much the reason I got a surf skate last October and now want to spend time skating almost as much as surfing!!
👊🏾
@@KalesBroccoli it’s so hard to glean river tips from ocean surf videos, so different in so many ways but over the last three years as I have been progressing your vids are tops. Would be rad if you would give this vid of me from yesterday a look and let me know if there is any tips the ocean master can give a river rat?!?
ruclips.net/video/ppJ38j4nkFM/видео.html
I bring a box of Fruit Roll-Ups out to the Lineup and pass them out to all my future friends. Hard to get mad with a wonderful Strawberry delight in your mouth.
Nice! But can you bring a chicken Parma or bowl of spaghetti or something in case I’m out there? I hate roll-ups 🤙🏼
Bro... I can offer Fruit Roll-ups or a nice Grilled Cheese. I ain't Guy Fieri over here!!!
😂 I will very gratefully accept the grilled cheese!
@@damson140 DEAL! What break we hitting up? Hahaha
😂 I wanna say desert point but then we better make it a Nasi Bungkus, lots of sambal!
I love the way you mix it up. I wouldnt watch a all surfing video , but the kinds of waves you surf make it exciting. Thank ur bro for sending people over🤙🤙🤙🤙
As a Hawaiian Surfer, its all about respect. Localism only happens when it needs to! Its an necessary action that is activated when poor behavior is present even among other locals. Safety first when in doubt don't go out!!! trust me break that rule the mother ocean will put you in your place faster than any Local will.
Having grown up in Hawaii (as a white guy) you are absolutely incorrect here. There are *many* "local-only" breaks that you simply cannot get into as a white person unless you're a recognized professional or competing. The 'racism' I experienced in Hawaii even as a kama'aina was blatant, overt, and completely undermined the idea of "aloha" that gets thrown around so often when talking about this sport or the islands in general. Luckily there are a few beaches, some behind military guard posts, that allow those not blessed with easily-tanning skin to enjoy the beach without being taken for, and treated as, haoles in a negative way.
I think Hawai'i is an excellent example of the absolute worst kind of surf localism. I certainly get the motivation - as tourism runs the risk of overwhelming certain breaks, etc. That said, a tourist is spending a good percentage of their annual income to just get a glimpse of a surfing culture and locale that is legendary (and perhaps generative) to the sport. Telling her to "go home, haole" is precisely 180 degrees in the opposite direction from any interpretation of the aloha spirit. Sure, you have to respect the water - if someone isn't safe (i.e., beginner bodyboarder wants to hit Sandy's) to be in the water, telling that person to try somewhere more suited to that person's ability level is apropos. But that isn't localism - that's basic life-saving etiquette.
Great video Kale. I would like to see you make one about something you mentioned in this one but did not elaborate further. Specifically, the issue of people (particularly those unschooled in the culture of surfing) posting pictures and names of specific spots on social media - to show off, feed one's ego, or get "likes" or "followers". This directly contributes to overcrowding, and should never be done even if the place isn't a "secret spot". Yes, guidebooks have existed for decades, and there are surf cams and online guides now, but they are less of a problem because people don't consult them to check a particularly spot ALL AT THE SAME TIME. When someone posts a spot on social media, thousands of people see it simultaneously and it leads to that spot being overrun. Also, too many beginner surfers are coming to the beach in a large group, then ignoring any sort of rotation in the lineup and acting like they and their friends are the only ones there. Arriving at the beach with more than ONE friend has long been considered a kook move, I'd like to see more awareness of that. Thanks!
its a selfish sport by definition. one thing that naturally happens is that it is very noticeable who knows how to handle the surf and who doesnt. if you get in a crowded lineup and you can barely paddle you wont be given many chances to get waves. i find that its more related to your skill level than to localism to be honest.
Yes, you are right. I grew up surfing in my home town and am a local. When I surf elsewhere , I stay low key, figure out who is who, be patient, and above all don’t blow it, especially the drop, when I finally get into one. Once you’ve done that, you’ll generally get more waves. If you blow it, you’ll be dropped in on all day.
Fair point, but doesn’t leave much room for beginners.
@@ooklamoc4411 This....I can't understand the absolute ignorance of this basic concept in so many of the replies here. It's the same logic that says the status quo, even if it marginalizes certain groups, should be defended. That's bullshit - and all of us should recognize that logic for the privileged arrogance that it is.
I lived in Santa Cruz, Cal from the 70's until about 1990. There was heavy localism by the "Westsiders" during that time. There were fights. I was an aspiring surf photographer. Once I got pictures of the locals published in the mags, I had no trouble with the locals. Getting your picture in a surf magazine in those days was a big deal. Not like now with the oversaturated media, Internet etc.
Localism is tricky and will only get worse the more popular surfing gets. Nothing more annoying than seeing a bunch of new faces at a spot where you have put in countless time to get a seat in the line up per say.
No responsibility for poor etiquette these days either. Everyone seems to be surfing for cool points rather than trying to get better and improve. If you suck you shouldn’t be sitting at the peak and trying to paddle battle people who can surf. That wouldn’t even be a thing when I was growing up. I would sit on the shoulder and catch waves and watch better surfers surf the peak and learn from them. Today you surf and you see 15 men/women plus the normal crowd sitting on the peak with the go pros and fun boards going straight. It’s ridiculous. So I get it.
The worst kind is the guy that can barely surf but can paddle good. Those guys OMG! Lol.
That last sentence. LOL... So true...
Great video Kale, on an important topic. Setting aside for now those few dicks that won't change, I have no problem with locals who are tired of being invaded by disrespectful blow ins, or ignorant beginners. I am still relatively new to surfing, and mostly go to a wide open beach break. There are better waves at the nearby point breaks, but I'm not good enough yet to go there at peak times, and conditions. I am having a blast at the beach break.
No, the sense of entitlement from non-locals is ruining surfing. In the past, you could go to spots, show respect and get waves. Now people feel than can just paddle out and get when they want.
Spot on.
Never seen this - ever. But I have seen a LOT of entitlement from locals....period.
This is comparable to the pier and surf fishing crews along the east coast states.
Each pier has its own group or regulars on the end that live bait for Kings , Cobia , Tarpon etc and there’s only so much room to set up the live bait rigs. Most of the guys are chill but every pier seems to have at least one or two that have a way of making newcomers feel unwelcome. In a way it can be a good thing because it provides a sort of crowding control , on the other hand I wanted to catch them bigguns badly enough that I overcame the anxiety and said “f*** it, I ain’t letting intimidation stop me.”
Like one of the local charter captains /pier legends once told me, “You gotta want it”
Yes it is ruining surfing ... surfers in the line up so often become pricks
The amount and type of localism is actually more seldom and less harsh than it used to be. That means if surfing is becoming "ruined", you could say it's because of less localism?
The most important thing is being respectful
I have a bit of an odd surf origin story, so maybe my perspective will be helpful to someone. I lived on the US East coast off and on and learned to read and love the ocean. I couldn't afford a board when I did live near a 'home break.' Years later, I was taught proper surfing, etiquette & respect in Hawaii and Northern California-now, ironically, those are the places that feel like home breaks to me. I've been fortunate to travel and paddle out into dozens of different breaks, from crowded world renowned to solo at nameless beaches. I'm always looking at new faces or an unfamiliar shoreline.
For me the main focus is always safety. If youre less experienced, its just so important to stay outside and learn/catch what you can. If its a chill, small, or party wave group then it'll be Aloha either way. Only thing that would not sit well in my experience is a surfer who isn't aware if they're endangering someone, whether its dropping in or paddling out through the takeoff zone
This is a complex and dynamic sport that everyone should be able to enjoy. If someone is less advanced, they likely have nowhere near the level of awareness that the experienced locals do. Stay empathetic & understanding
Localism simply works. I have been on the receiving end at times which I learned from. At my local we generally are neutral towards new people and after a period of time will accept them gladly if they are at least pleasant to be around.The other side of the coin involves showing the utmost hostility towards repeated bad behavior. The locals have this spot wired and therefore naturally get more wave, which happens everywhere.
Me and my family have a place in the south-west coast of France, where we've come regularly for the past 15 years. I still remember this one time, we had surfed in a "secret spot" - it was like a 10 min walk through the forest. When we came back from our session, we found our tires destroyed, because of our foreign number plate.
Tarnos?
Old bloke crew at north Steyne and the super local crew at av are the pits.
yeh i remember those old blokes, 5 of them surrounded me and asked where i was from. saying if im not from manly to respect them even though they gave nobody respect themselves.
This is real random thinking but I used to work in fisheries, and the oceans really are a limited resource in some ways: do areas ever release licenses (I'm talking a decade from now)? Like super easy to get (free probably) but a quota for the day? I think activities like surfing are only going to get more and more popular, and more and more dangerous. With fishing you'll sometimes have locals who get passes or quotas, and then you can be granted a day pass if you're visiting? I've only ever surfed in a quiet spot in Vietnam and then the Great Lakes here in Canada where I always have my local spot to myself, so I have no idea what an Aus or Cali lineup must be like, but the parts of surfing that seem to end up in brawls are just so wildly unappealing. I'm a safe kook who gets the rules part but I'm not sure I'm ever going to be skilled enough to impress a local, surfing is a thing I love that I'm not great at, so going on surf holidays seems horrible and I'm afraid to book them because I don't want to have an awful time trying to do something I'm really grateful for at my own break, even if the freshwater waves are only ok. Just spitballing anyways, comparing to another industry that faces limited ocean space and sustainability issues, because eventually somethings gotta give right.
Middle aged (and older) men dominating line ups and acting like they “own” the place, has ruined surfing in Australia.
lol I just commented similar without reading this response.
No, you young guys just don’t have any surf etiquette and don’t like it when the older guys school you. I’m a “middle aged” female. I can’t tell you how many times I have some guy in his 20s on a longboard BACKPADDLE me. Old guys never do that. Learn some manners and you won’t have problems.
Lol what that guy with the biggest mouth on the line up.. Ah yeah I see.. They always want to go for a chat after the sesh..
@@ErikaLaGrande you’ve raised a separate issue that may be true for you. Doesn’t change the fact that what I said is true:
I gotta say that in my surfing life I have to agree that the 40-50ish year olds (long or shortboarders it doesn’t matter) are the saltiest, most entitled mothereffers of the bunch. And I’m saying that as someone IN that age range 🤣, though not with the attitude). That said, you always have the occasional young backpaddling wave hog punk…but they don’t wreak nearly the havoc as the older assholes.
Would pre-emptively condemning oneself be an effective way to avoid this, such as a rash guard with "I'M A BEGINNER. I SUCK." or "UTTER LOSER" written on it? When I first started learning swimming at 24 years old, I often got derogatory comments from two senior swimmers when I practised on my own outside of the lessons; I subsequently wrote "I SUCK" across my chest and back with a Sharpie marker and never got a condescending remark or action again.
I’m really lucky that I’m a woman because it works to my advantage when I’m surfing- everyone has always been kind and encouraging to me. I started teaching my boyfriend how to surf a little over a year ago, and most surfers are pretty rude to him in comparison. It’s sad. The ONLY time anyone was nice to him was a few weeks ago when some 14 year old kids talked to him and were nice.
Off course 😅😅😅
Thanks so much for the insight Kale !
I really believe in the "you get what you deserve" mantra... it's not even been one year I surf now but I really fell in love with, bought all the stuff I needed and commit into it. Commit into surfing is also, from my point of view, after talking a lot with people, my coaches etc : reading and learning about the rules, how to read the conditions and the forecast, not putting yourself (and then probably the others) in danger... but when I see the attitude of some people who are beginners and just go to the water to "seem cool on the board", I can really understand the extreme localism... even though I think it's a shame when people can't make the difference between those guys and someone who isn't a local, not even a confirmed surfer, but who is putting a lot of effort to read the line-up, respect everything and not do any mistakes...
That being said, I'm living for the first abroad surf trip of my life next week and this gets me a bit nervous... hope it'll be okay... if anyone has any knowledge of how it is in Sagres, Portugal, and any advice, well I'd take it with pleasure !
"He's so Haole he doesn't even know he's Haole 🤙".
When kooks show up at our home break, and fall on the takeoff, or barrel dodge, or generally just waste waves, they only get 1 second chance that session. If they donkey out twice, they either need to move to a different peak, or get out of the water.
There are far too many people who are brand new surfers and are trying to surf waves well above their ability. Don't take international surf trips to heavy spots if you suck at surfing, stay home and learn first.
I agree with you 100% in everything you said, I actually like localism in surfing and think earning your spot at the peak and having respect for the your elders and forefathers is something missing in society, and a huge part which makes surfing so special. I love the fact you have to work out so many factors (hazards, surf conditions, who the gnarly locals are, who the rippers are, whos dangerous and best steered clear of etc) by instinct in the water and adjust accordingly - it makes surfing such an amazing experience like no other
🙏🏽👊🏾
I try to get out in the lineup and greet everyone as I pass them.
Then start pushing the waves that I pick to bigger and bigger as I cycle through the lineup.
What get's me recently is the idea of proving myself with good waves. I end up getting in my head to impress others instead of just surfing for the fun of it and to see the personal progression.
As I've been surfing some more crowded and contended lineups like JBay I've come back to my local spots a bit more jaded and also with a bit more domination in the lineup, kinda paddling past guys that I can see are still beginner/intermediate.
But still, I am super respectful of etiquette. Even going out of my way to help others get good waves and to not snowball guys if I'm paddling on their inside.