I would add that if someone is a beginner and because of their ability they want to sit out on the shoulder hoping for a mellow take off that the experienced surfers aren’t obliged to consider a shoulder hopper as waiting in line. A surfer has to position themselves near the curl to be in line
Yes, this is true, but in 40 years of surfing Cali breaks, many experienced surfers take advantage of that position. And many times will whistle off beginners, carve a huge spray in their face, or flat out intimidate them - if not actually harm them, their board, or take their backpacks pop tires etc... This happens and is not talked about as wrong. Its laughing spoke of as localism and the right of passage etc... Even the WSL announcers and pro surfers endorse this behavior. As a black young surfer, all heads would turn and for me and my brother it was extra hard, but we were athletes, football players, and didn't scare easy the opposite, out of the water most surfers are small. But we had to handle it - until all of the locals knew us, saw that we were cool, and stayed out of our way. I began to surf as a bodyguard for other surfers who would give me gear and equipment, pay for gas, etc.. just to surf with them at a new break and deal with the locals. It's real, it's talked about, and no one is speaking up to help change it. It's worse now than in the '80s.
Thanks for that context! I did hear comments like, "it's not your fault if someone doesn't stay close to the peak. It's for the taking of anyone that can get close to the peak". I see the logic behind it. Like if a noob is, let's say, 5m away from the peak, yes it's too far and we can reasonably say or think that the noob is on a different line up. Also, it seems like such a waste and feels wrong to let that 5 metres of goodness go to waste. However it makes you wonder.. where do you draw the line? If I am 2 meters off the peak, can someone (who can air drop) waltz along inside of me and take priority, beecause he/she can? I'd have thought that's snaking and quite selfish.
@@Rk29th Yes! I agree, where do you draw the line? Again - Thank you for the reply. Our discussion is so essential if the sport of surfing continues to grow. 4 things to look at which will help. Agan not talking about waves of consequence where it's life and death like Pipeline. But the regular surfer looks at the Pipe contest and he and his boys go out to a 3-foot break in San Diego and treat people the same as the Pipe Crew and they feel justified and supported in their actions. 1 = Changing the culture around the welcome of all levels in the lineup - right now the mainstream media paints this picture - "Here comes a --- 'Noob', 'Kook', 'Beeny', 'Clam or #&ick Dragger', 'Junkyard Dog', etc... All terms (there are many more) fully excepted in the glossary of terms by the WSL, Announcers, Sponsors, and Pro-level surfers as ways to describe or communicate with or about nonlocals and beginners. I work in education - this is called bullying. If this is the baseline of how kids are taught as acceptable on the beach? then the next level of bullying, forms of violence, is a natural step. CHANGE THE CULTURAL BASELINE. 2 - The PATH on a wave of a true beginner, 90% of the time, IS STRAIGHT! So why not ask them to take the inside and you take the second position. I've done this so many times, both as a beginner and at the next levels. Everyone wins. You both paddle for the wave together - If they don't make the wave you're up and running, if they make the wave they almost always go straight, then you're still up and running, and if by chance they make the wave and the bottom turn then you both yell scream and laugh and you give way. The key to this is meeting and talking to each other out in the lineup, talking it up, sharing surf stories etc... Then make a plan together and go for it. 3 - To increase the BUSINESS Revenues of Surfing begins with Culture change starting with the WSL televised pro-level events and pro surfers. More people are watching WSL events as their inspiration to return to surfing or try it for the first time. That is the business goal of the WSL - Bring more customers to the sport which will bring more sponsors who bring more money to grow the purses, support the youth, Jr, and development programs, etc.. everyone wins. From a PURE BUSINESS perspective - your new customers are being treated EXTREMELY POORLY and the WSL encourages and supports that bullying treatment by laughing about the rights of passage, you have to gain respect from the locals, you must go up and talk to them, and have to be strong with your voice, don't respond when your called all of these names, or get your new board dinged or tires slashed, etc... 4 - Start talking about and supporting the TWO PATHWAYS of world surfing and what it means to be a great surfer. - The Greatest Pure Surfer - one with the ocean in all conditions, an artist on waves doing things which inspire others, world-class ambassador, and surfing any size wave around the world in all weather conditions. - The Greatest Competitor - Great athlete, knowing the rules, blocking, mind games, timing, taking competitive risks, having the toolbox of the moves and tricks, and being on attack mode to win at all cost. If you think about how this pertains to the local breaks. Usually, there are amazing pure surfers who are not only great when they catch a wave but also are amazing ambassadors cool people who call you by name when they say "Hey Kairand nice to surf with you today! Blessings brother, and say hello to that 110 degrees heat back in AZ for me will ya" (I will spend $800 to buy the board he is riding or the wetsuit he is wearing - I might even share with my friends) vs that hotshot who is fired up watching Kelly control his competitors at the Pipe Pro, this surfer will never ask for your name, thinks he owns the line because of his skill and wants to show that he's better than JJ or Medina powering through the lineup with only one goal - be the best that day. Because of his paddling speed, he gets to the inside positions all day long, whistling and calling people off the shoulder, spraying as many Kooks as he can - because he can. (I won't buy his brands, I might even tell my friends not to buy his brands) But he is just doing what he is seeing on TV. I really believe that the WSL level promotes both forms of surfing and that this will help the surf culture grow in positive ways. I personally like the new format for the WSL. It's a competition, not an entertainment tour - a small group of the best of the best competitors going at it to determine the World Champion. But why couldn't they showcase videos and feature more pure surfers during the WSL contest? Celebrate both forms I see lineups today where people aren't talking to each other, sitting silently, like it's a Pipe Final, all paddling for the position, taking everything so seriously, and all want that extra 3 meters of a wave to themselves to grab that extra turn or two and to somehow make a point that they're king of the beach? JOY of surfing together, like skiing, or snowboarding --- together enjoying this amazing beautiful art form that was gifted to use by the indigenous island cultures. I love surfing, my Danish Grand Father loved surfing - Surfing is so important.
I've been the snake before. Accidently a few times, before realizing what I was doing. Surf etiquette can be complicated, I'm thankful for content creators like you who share this knowledge and help makes lineups better and safer for everyone.
As a beginner, I usually sit on the beach for 30 minutes and observe before going in to learn the patterns and respect the playground rules. These vids and everyone's comments help in understanding what I'm seeing. Thanks!
Another issue is board size/ volume disparity, where loggers just paddle a mile out and catch every wave before you can on a short board, this is then compounded when there are several of them, completely hogging the line up.
@Wes Smith [P] That´s a lie! Surfing was invented several hundred of years ago, people firstly were bodysurfing, then using something like a bodyboard, then starting to stand up on these"bodyboards", lastly were "longboards" used. Even in ancient times resources were limited, or they were even more scarces. The place which made surfing exposed to the world - Hawaii- only rich noble persons were allowed to have a longboard, because even their making had a large impact on environment, the rest of non-noble people, 90%, were shortboarders.
I was on a longboard a few weeks ago at my local. It's a tough wave for shortboarders in general but it was just big enough that it was makeable about 1 wave/set. With a rising tide I kept finding that any wave I let go past was going unridden (despite their efforts), so I started paddling for/catching more. One of the shortboarders paddled out and yelled at me saying I was taking way too many. Am I the asshole if they weren't able to make them on their boards?
@@sharp-endmedia8314 Yes, you are! Even if they miss 100% of waves, they still have a right to waves because of being at the peak, what they do with their waves is up to them, bailing, missing or ripping. For me every wave by a longboarder is fucked up, even Joel Tudor`s would be, but I am not that brazen to exclude him from getting waves or dropping in on him. You would, if you were a normal surfer, using a surfboard according to your weight and abilities, drop in, it's your selfish attitude, disgraceful.
@@KalesBroccoli thanks for the correction :) but still I wish I was seeing that happen in real life :) Well to be fair I’ve seen that happen on occasion when we were no more than 5 on a given peak.
Yep, that bit at the end he describes as bad….any break in NSW with more than 5 out back. Better surfers, long boarders and SUPs sniping every wave. 🤷🏻♂️
Etiquette died in covid...at least in San Diego. What about when you leave the peak long and shortboarders were all hogging and missing anyway. They see you rippin on another and they all crowd over to where you moved. I have had that happen 4 or 5 times in a single sesh, I move to different peaks and everyone follows.
I like your work Kale. But honestly, in 45 years of surfing, I've never been in a line-up where people take their turn. There's one rule only . . . Whoever is on the inside has right of way. Occasionally you might get a generous surfer on the inside that lets someone else have the wave.
true, at many breaks the person with inside position takes the wave .... but theres always that one guy/gal that paddles around you for inside position on every set wave... 😏
One thing I tend to do if there's someone paddling out or waiting for me to pass while I'm riding is verbally let them know I see them and if I want them to wait right where they are, if I'll go behind them or in front of them, or what have you. I don't want either one of us to guess what the other one is going to do.
This scenario is too real, especially if you find yourself catching the first wave of a set which stalls Out, or you are just inside catching small waves when a set rolls through… theres always “that moment” when you have to decide: to i break for the shoulder, or paddle towards the inside. Unfortunatley i usually end up with a zig zaggy combo of both, trying to read whats happening and get out if the way. Unfortunatly this doesnt always work, snd itd be nice to have a system of communication like turn signals are to a car to avoid this. When im on the wave i like to use my arms to kind of Point which direction im going. I feel like a kook because i have been surfing for a long time and still run into this scenario a lot, as both the person who is the problem, and the person to whom the problem is occurring. Really its a two way street
Best video ever about surf etiquette. So useful, and many thanks for the different scenarios and the appropriate "what to say" in each situation. Congratulations, you're the best 😉
This is one of the best etiquette videos I've seen, but like the others, it still misses out on a common situation: the peaky beach break. With multiple, shifting, overlapping peaks, people will be taking off all over the place. Position becomes more important. You might be certain you've been waiting longest, but if the peak appears in a perfect position for another surfer, you will probably just let them have it, even if you technically could have charged over to get it. And vice-verse of course. But, there is still a sense of flexible fairness at play. For people within a reasonable paddle distance of a peak, it's nice if the ones who got rides (or paddled at waves recently) sit out and encourage someone who's waited longer to take it. The reason many beginners have trouble reading the lineup is that many of them are learning in these complex beach break situations, and it looks like total chaos. Thus, they just paddle at anything in their vicinity. We need to start addressing these complex situations so that people can learn to read them better. Only explaining surf etiquette as it applies to the perfect point break just forces people to conclude there is no etiquette whatsoever in the messy beach break and we end up with more chaos. Let's also address situations where you know another surfer is not sitting deep enough, or when no one is in position for a rogue peak and you're in a scrum of people paddling over to get it. Where I surf, these are all common situations, but not a single etiquette video addresses them.
At my local break there are often longboarders sitting 10 to 20m further out than the shorter boards and take every single wave that comes along. I normally just move along the beach, but I do wonder what the proper etiquette is in this situation?
if longboarders are doing that, I start snaking their waves by taking off inside of them lol. If they say something to me, I point out the fact nobody else is catching any waves because they're going for everything
Hi we are post-beginner (!) and recently could have surfed some great conditions - for the UK! However we struggled to get past the whitewater, we tried duck diving and turtle rollls but kept getting knocked back and our boards whipped into the air. It was exhausting. I have a foamy and she has a mini mal so some tips would be great as we saw other surfers boards flying all over the place 😀 😄 so it wasn't just us with the problem
This video literally touches on everything that a beginner surfer should know. Excuse me, every beginner surfer NEEDS to know Everything that you’ve touched on in this video. You are such a great job on mentioning all the different aspects surfing etiquette and not only did you mention him but you were able to show them visually what you were actually talking about in that Ensures there’s no confusion on what you were talking about. In fact every single person who is about to take up surfing should have to watch this video. And I know that’s not possible but if it was possible there would be so many less issues, accidents, injuries, and drama in the water it would blow all of our minds. So with all that being said good job my brother, that was a near perfect informative & tremendously helpful video. And I know for the people who didn’t know these things before will definitely have a way better understanding of surfing etiquette that I guarantee will end up saving them from problems in the future. I applaud you Kale 👏🤙
Most of the local points are too crowded, so I prefer the beach breaks, where you and your mate can still get a peak. I figure, by the time I master the beach break scene, I might have a chance at a point, (at high tide, onshore, Tuesday morning)!
The one I wish everyone would learn: even if the lineup is not as organized as in Kale's example here, if you have just ridden a wave and paddled back to the lineup, IT. IS. NOT. YOUR. TURN. YET!!!!! Recently there was a greedy longboarder (with the dreaded hipster man-bun, meh!) at Leo Carrillo who would sprint-paddle back to the front of the line ( the waves break next to a large rock so it is very clear where the priority positionbis) after every wave he rode, spin around IMMMEDIATELY, and catch the next wave that came through. Just infuriating! 😡
This is one of the few times when it is okay to (safely) drop in. Also, feel free to shame him in front of the whole line up next time in between sets. Let him sit with the awkward tension. Snakes are the absolute worst.
Ever since the start of covid, people have started surfing more, which means new beginners. I find that on the worst days at my main break which is down in Manhattan Beach, there is 100 people out. No etiquette here btw.
my experience is that dropping in understood as a no-no everywhere, and maybe paddle out ettiquette too but there's massive disagreement on what constitutes as snaking. Even if you google it and read forums people can't agree, meaning it's hopeless to address it with someone in the lineup. Sadly many lineups just apply the "closest to the peak has priority" rule regardless of who was waiting longest and if most of the lineup acts that way you've no choice but to do the same if you want a wave (which makes them lineup awfully competitive and cramped by the peak. Another confusing situation is two surfers with equal priority catching the same peak but one going through the back door and calling the other to get off
I'm so flabbergasted that people don't understand snaking. I am trying to extrapolate this idea from the core surfing community (arguably those who have surfed longest) and spread it to the wider population. Look at the WSL rules, all these etiquette guidelines are reflected there.
@@KalesBroccoli There are many times more surfers that dont give a shit about the WSL or any other organization then do. There are also a good number who have been around longer. Competitions have nothing to do with what happens in the water on a day to day basis.
@@jfratis9081 My home break has tons of retired QS and even a CT guy or two. There are no rules at all. You can be sitting right on a wide open peak and people will paddle out to get inside of you. Everyone is either a pro or complete kook with 0 in between. I really enjoy the waves but it's the only rideable place within a 2 hour drive and it gets so bad that I'd rather just stay home most of the time.
Hi Kale, thanks for the vid. I had this conversation with somebody and were not quite sure about this situation: What if there is a discussion as to where the peak is? Sometimes we get these small waves and you can kind of take off, lets's say, left from the peak, but surf it to the right, passing the peak while taking off, or while riding it. You could pass somebody who technically was closer to the peak, but that person also technically drops in on you. I guess, longest potential ride has priority? What if you take off on the same moment. My guess is, if you can surf the wave to the right, the person right from you must back off right?
nice one. you're an idealist Kale, no doubt haha. the most annoying (apart from the blatant drop in) is the "selfish paddler" going for the shoulder... and the worst when experienced/fit surfers do it. thanks for detailing this one, seems to be the most overlooked..
Always good etiquette and karma to sit on the shoulder and let a couple of waves pass you buy instead of paddling straight out and sitting 2mm away from the crew to wait your turn. Don't go and paddle out on a peak where someone is surfing when there is an empty peak down the beach
Something that I struggle with, even as I border on intermediate level, is when the peaks are unclear such as on a beach break with big tides. The lineup tends to spread out across the beach and its very hard to tell whose turn it is where
I think those scenarios without a clear peak is just a free for all. But I think it's good to let others ride every so often, even if you have right of way, just so you aren't hogging all the waves
ahh man i love your videos thanks to you i can do snaps and i have a healthy workout program to get my pop up better and i built up the courage to catch 8ft waves man. very awesome man keep it up
Great guidance Kale, and lots of insightful and experienced comments here. We all love surfing with a passion, and it can be about respect and spreading good vibes if you choose that. If we were open to making more friends in the line up and bringing positive energy to it how cool would that be? And yes some days that’s not always me. Hope you get some good ones people, because everyday is better when you surf.
It’s subjective right! What someone may consider being snaked may be the other surfer identifying the ability of the other surfer and the likelihood of them making the take off based from previous observations.
In Hawaii, waiting in position longest doesn’t mean you have priority. For us, it’s based on who’s been surfing that spot the longest. You could still be waiting the longest but if an old timer wants your wave, best you yield.
I take it anyway and ride behind them as close as possible. Sure, I might sometimes give priority to an uncle but if I'm going for a wave and have right of way, I NEVER back off it, I don't care who else is going for it. Sometimes to get respect in a lineup you can't be giving away all your waves. If you come across as passive nobody in the lineup will respect you.
Real life. 1st point is excellent. Paddle the opposite direction of where the rider is headed. 2nd point (priority) is just not practiced unless you have maybe 3 or 4 people out. It sounds nice though.
So true. Right or wrong, like it or not, the “having inside position” rule takes precedence over the “waiting the longest” rule 90% of the time at even moderately crowded breaks.
Good post! Re the First point -absolutely - I witnessed a guy get a punch in the head for his troubles doing that to a local out at Honolulu Bay a few years ago. The second point from Kale brings the murky perspectives of localism and capability into the equation. High performance breaks will have a pecking order for set waves. As a non-local you’ll need to prove that you are capable of handling the place (via smaller inside waves) before you’ll be ‘trusted’ to take a set……… places like Snapper Rocks (and Noosa during a cyclone) are a zoo of rabid pros and wannabe’s, best advice is to find a quieter place where you can get your wave count and skills up……. Unless what you want to do is hone your hassling skills!
@@minniman24 very good! It is an equation and a complicated one 😂 one that every surfer needs to figure out on their own over many years, many breaks and many waves. 🤙🏼
@@jblo76 Which a lot of the time is fine I think. What bugs me is a last minute paddle inside where I was obviously waiting when a better wave is obviously coming. But if someone has paddled back out and we've both been waiting a while and a wave comes they happen to be closest to the peak then that's fine. Or if they judge the peak better by sitting farther outside, then that's OK too. Of course I'm mostly talking about beach breaks here where peaks are coming in different places a lot of the time.
If you're riding the wave? If you can tell they know how to paddle they should be able to paddle inside or outside of you if you just hold your line. 2. If you have the time and space and it's clear that they're just sitting there and you will probably hit them on your current path, then bail out. Fall off your board. Again...making sure you have the space with the length of your leash etc. 3. If it's too late for all of that, try your best to not look at the person you are about to hit. Focus on a line away from the surfer in the water and you just might be surprised that your board will follow and you will suddenly learn what a turn feels like. 4. It a collision is inevitable then just try your best to limit the damage. Most likely that means falling off your board as soon as you can. Cover up your face and head with your arms to avoid getting hit by either of the boards and hope they are doing the same.
Thanks for the important video. I am often the only female surfer in the lineup specially when the waves are a little higher. Sometimes I have the feeling that I have to prove myself before the guys (sorry that I have to say that) let me take a waves. Even when I have priority someone drops in although the person saw me paddling towards the wave. Maybe thats just a feeling and of course it is not always like that... But for sure I need to work on my self confidence. 😊
great video and very well explained. coming from the UK we don't tend to grow up surfing like a lot of Aussies, though some of us will regularly travel to surf we're definitely not on the same level. i lived on the sunshine coast for 2 years and surfed Noosa mostly. I can honestly say the majority of the time it was really positive in the water, I soon got to know local faces and would always greet people and have a chat. there was plenty of times people would shout each other in and share party waves. there was one guy who was always in a mood and shouting at people for paddling for a wave he was on, though he'd not made the section several times before. he'd have a moan and then immediately paddle around and snake someone. i do find that when it comes to getting in some ones way it can be much worse at busy spots like noosa, sometimes you have multiple surfers coming at you and no where to go, and something thats a little frustrating is surfers often act like they were never less experienced and made those mistakes. it was also very hard to compete with longboarders as they paddle out further and get into waves much earlier, i never really saw much in the way of line up etiquette and it would be near impossible to get a wave sometimes if a group of really good surfers were out.
Hey brother - always love your content! Have you considered a video about ex-surfers returning to the water? I’m in this demographic, surfed up until my mid-20s then life and career happened. The last 3 years I’ve found my passion for the ocean again - the difference? 20 years of life, a bad knee and a bunch of weight. I think there’s a large number of people in this group that you might be able to help out with something a little more specific to that story 🤙
OK I've asked this question to dozens of experienced surfers and never gotten a consistent answer. Here in Southern CA, I'll work through the lineup and finally be sitting right on the peak. I'll have clear position and start to go, only to have someone on a much higher volume board - like an 11' glider - sitting further from the peak paddle for my wave. Because of all their volume they're able to get to their feet first well before the wave has begun to crest, leaving me paddling between the about-to-break peak and a surfer who's up and riding. Who's wave it this? It feels like a pre-emptive shoulder hop/drop-in.... Some say up and riding rules, no matter position. Others say no, position rules and it should be my wave.
First time, I’d give him the wave. Second time, it’s your wave. If you try to say something and he does that awkward avoid-eye-contact thing, just drop in on him for the rest of the sesh.
Once at the Pass I was on a very tight line where I thought I could just miss the back of a boat that was trying to go out during my set wave. A young mal rider ahead of me threatened to drop in at the crucial moment, but instead ditched her board which flew up in the air and came down on my head knocking me off straight into the back of the boat. Fortunately I missed the propeller but my board hit the metal ladder at the back and was badly dinged. Classic!
Honestly most of the time this happens with long boarders. I’ll be sitting close to the peak with a long boarder to my left or right by a good distance and they decide to snake a wave just cause they can. Pisses me off so much
45 years of surfing, grew up at uncrowded points, reefs and beaches, so the local crew upheld all the etiquette mentioned in the video. But whenever the town clowns arrive, they always hassle for every wave and go against all the basic rules. I ended up surfing around the world for many years and found very few places where proper surf etiquette is practiced. Usually the small out of the way places where there's maybe a handful of locals out, but even then they can be territorial and conciously paddle on your inside (which admittendly I did to visitors in my younger days). I now unfortunately live in the UK (south Cornwall) and have never come across a more clueless surf nation. I've never been snaked, hassled and dropped in on this much anywhere else in the world. The Brit surf culture has taken clueless surf etiquette to another level. For instance, one thing that's always irked me is when I find an empty peak somewhere, often a long walk away from the crowds, but idiots come and sit right on top of you because they saw you catch a few good waves. Worse even when they then hassle you. This happens all the time in the UK.
Ya, unless one of your crew decided to randomly not like someone who was following etiquette but was also good and getting waves, so you drop in on them/harass them/threaten them. Localism = garbage
I was at my local point break and this one guy got in the way of my wave while paddling back out 3 times. He then yelled at me for "almost hitting him". Wish I could send him this video haha
wow. i would've been telling him to paddle wider or inside (to the whitewater) after the second time. often at PB's there's less sweep wider, too, so a longer distance paddle but easier.
@@1974mazdarx3sedan yeah I wanted too haha. This was at Topanga and if you didn't know, that wave full of beginners and angry locals who take off on whatever wave they want. So this situation didn't annoy me too much until he got mad at me. Then I did say that I wouldn't have "almost hit him" if he didn't didn't paddle directly in front of me. I'm still a teen though so that's about as much as I'm ever gonna say to anyone older than me in the lineup
I've never been in a lineup where everyone patiently waits their turn, there is always at least one person who will paddle straight to the inside and take off on the next available wave even if they got the last one. This happens even if you know everyone in the lineup, if you are a bit of the pace you have to rely on the more generous surfers, there are always a couple of them around so it evens out a bit.
Haha I find that it really doesn't matter what nationality - it's a certain late beginner / early intermediate "nobody owns the ocean" demographic that is the consistent factor!
ok serious question: Should surfer etiquette be extended to paddle boards SUP? I say this because they can catch the wave sooner than a surfer and they are already standing? Therefor if the code of ethics is given to them they are always going to have priority.
Hate those people who constantly paddle too far inside and then rant about dropins. Ego is a bitch. Note to beginners, if you missed the wave, it doesn't mean you get the next one.
Perhaps share the fun is the motto, here's some tips to help share the fun. 'Rules' are blah blah...I also accept myself or others yelling out party wave if someone or myself accidentally drops in.
I've been pretty lucky up in the PNW (U.S)with lineup ettiquette . We tend to have a mix of long and short boards , I'm on a longboard , so the takeoff spot is varied, plus it's sand , no reefs so it moves anyhow. I just try to make eye contact and be generous. Lets all have a good day. If a set is coming in that I plan to pass on I just paddle over it and sit up and make it clear it's somebody else . Or just say "Not me!" out loud . Maybe even give a hoot when somebody else gets up. It tends to get contagious fast . I lived in southern California in the 80's so I'm no stranger to a more aggro, locals only vibe , but I'm too old for that now. If a spot is a hassle I will just move . On a 9'6' , and still some pretty serious paddle strength I could pick off whatever I wanted if it came down to it but that defeats the point of surfing to me. Thing about being an asshole is , I get to go home feeling great, but they have to go home still being an asshole
Hi Kale or anyone experienced,may I have a question, I’m surf short board, in that wave I’m close to the peak but other longboard not close to the peak paddle in from outside try to catch that wave, in this case I should holdback or keep catching it?
For people who don’t understand why some advanced surfer can get angry. 1 - Waves is a limited resource. if you are not able to take off, generating speed and turns, look for a break a bit mellower. People surf for fun, rescuing a beginner in 6 ft barrels is not fun. 2- the more serious the waves are ( hollow and shallow reef barrels for instance), the more etiquette and experience u need in order to be accepted in the Peaking order by locals. If you are good and confident enought As a tourist or non local, u need to show respect in the lineup to inspire the locals to let you surf with them. 3- a lot of intermediate-beginners hanging around peaks they should not surf, disturbing peacking order by hazardous placement, putting themselves and the others in danger. Finally, when you will be accepted in the peaking order, you will see the guy who have being waiting for the longest always get prior.
When I talk to people who don't surf or maybe attended a surf lesson on vacation :), I tell them surfing can be like a flock of seagulls fighting over a piece of fish. I think that some it up quite nicely.
I think you have (perhaps conveniently) left out the "unwritten rule" that is localism. When you are an aggressive local, you can ignore all of the other rules :) It is unfortunately quite common....
The way I deal with aggro locals who break all etiquette is by dropping in on them. When they protest, just say, “since when do you care about surf etiquette?”
Awesome vídeo. Surfing in Brazil Where I live is very difficult to deal with unpolite surfers. Everyone here wanna be like Medina. And this is so annoying.
Couple of other situations. Groups of surfers who sit there talking and not paying attention to the waves are a real problem. The surf is a great place for socializing, but people will be a lot friendlier to you if they notice that you’re alert and paying attention, and know how to behave out there. If you want to chat with your friends, pull over to the side away from the main lineup. Chances are a wave or two will appear where you are anyway and you can get some rides with your friends. Also, people who wait on the inside with their boards sidewise, i.e., parallel to the wave. Your board is anywhere from 7 to 10 feet long. At least two, if not three surfers can ride through that space. Learn to sit with your board facing the wave, then spin around quickly and paddle if you want to catch one. If you face the wave, it’s easy to see a surfer paddling into a wave coming at you, and easy to quickly lie flat on your chest and start paddling away from them, preferably into the white water as Kale says here. But if you’re sitting sideways, you have to both turn and paddle away, and you’ll be a lot slower to get out of the way. A LOT SLOWER. And lastly, Kale mentions it a bit here, but it’s really annoying to see a newbie out there trying to catch every wave that comes along and getting in everyone’s way. There’s a reason you’re missing waves. Better to sit and think a bit about why than just going for the next one blindly. You’re wasting a lot of energy and learning nothing otherwise. When I started surfing at age 50 at the famed - and crowded - Waikiki beach, I would spend probably 90 percent of the time off to the side, watching, listening and waiting. I saw how people lined up, noticed who the good surfers were, and who was older and out of shape like me. Two hours in the water, and I’d have maybe 5 or 6 good rides, and that was plenty. And after awhile, they were saying hi when I got out there and encouraging me to get on the better waves. That’s still the case and it’s been 17 years now.
Waiting your turn on a beach break is crazy if there is a huge group. You will not get a wave. I’m curious how many waves you guys catch an hour in a crowded day with decent swell?? If I get 12-15 waves in 2 hours I think that’s more then fair. More like 10 honestly
@kale Thank you for this gem! At last, a video that not only discusses the rules but also delves into how they unfold in the thrilling reality of surfing, complete with all its delightful chaos. More importantly, it offers guidance on handling the unexpected. Let’s join together as friendly, well-meaning surfers like yourself to transform the often macho and hostile surfing culture into one filled with love and honesty, bringing warmth and camaraderie back to the waves. ♥
The 1 about the guy sitting further out waiting its ok if you feel his too wide and paddle inside but just be cool and let him have the 1st wave. It sets a good precident
Wish everyone was Kale in the lineup. That would be the perfect lineup. At my break in Santa Cruz CA, there are clicks or groups and they hog the peak. You have to be aggressive, it’s the only way unfortunately.
I surf at Wrightsville beach and there's a break on the north side of the pier that always causes fights...People will paddle as close as they can to the pier then take every right that comes through then they'll try to fight you if you drop in on them.....So it's like they cut to the front of the line in priority then try to fight you when you say fuck it and drop in. I think surf rules are pretty fkn dumb; especially at beach breaks. Respect whoever is on their feet first and don't put anyone in danger and your pretty much good to go.
I also think you need to surf with people of the same ability, and on a peak most closely aligned with your abilities. If you go surf with good surfers on a wave at the top of your abilities as a beginner you will get almost nothing
Also surf etiquette: if you see lots of surfers out, please take your kayak somewhere else. Lol. I’ve seen some sketchy shit when kayaks try to get mixed in with crowder surf spots.
I wish it was true the line up, i have never seen yet a line up where more experienced surfers respect the line up and i see the same people taking waves, paddling back in, seeing me waiting yet taking the next wave and when i have said something they react as if i am crazy. I am yet to see an experienced surfer with "consciousness " of those around them.
@@KalesBroccoli some times for sure, but there has been a couple when i was in the right spot yet no acknowledgment of line up and it is hard specially when they paddle by you, so they KNOW you have been waiting. Trust me, my first instinct is always check WHAT I AM DOING, if i am right then i look at whts happening with others. Although i am in France and i am not French and learning fast that french people are really secretly extremely rasists, sadly to say...
There's a rumour that once a location has been your home break for a certain length of time, you are granted magical powers that place you above any priority laws and systems, and all you have to do is paddle around growling the secret password phrase "I've been surfing here for 30 years!" (with bonus cred points amongst the surf-gods if you mix in a lot of expletives while saying it...) to anyone who's not your best mate or the local bait shop owner... can confirm this is true..? 🤪
Good attempt at explaining snaking but on a beach break with inconsistent peaks it is far more nuanced. It's like pornography. Can't define it but you know it when you see it.
The worst thing is sitting out the Back and catching the Bomb Wave of the Day and then having to deal with all of the morons who were sitting way too far in getting in your way trying to scramble for the Horizon 🤦♂
I would add that if someone is a beginner and because of their ability they want to sit out on the shoulder hoping for a mellow take off that the experienced surfers aren’t obliged to consider a shoulder hopper as waiting in line. A surfer has to position themselves near the curl to be in line
As a beginner, this is good to know. It can be a little intimidating in the lineup with experienced surfers, but most are cool and help you out.
Is this the generally accepted rule? Ive heard this a few times
Yes, this is true, but in 40 years of surfing Cali breaks, many experienced surfers take advantage of that position. And many times will whistle off beginners, carve a huge spray in their face, or flat out intimidate them - if not actually harm them, their board, or take their backpacks pop tires etc... This happens and is not talked about as wrong. Its laughing spoke of as localism and the right of passage etc... Even the WSL announcers and pro surfers endorse this behavior. As a black young surfer, all heads would turn and for me and my brother it was extra hard, but we were athletes, football players, and didn't scare easy the opposite, out of the water most surfers are small. But we had to handle it - until all of the locals knew us, saw that we were cool, and stayed out of our way. I began to surf as a bodyguard for other surfers who would give me gear and equipment, pay for gas, etc.. just to surf with them at a new break and deal with the locals. It's real, it's talked about, and no one is speaking up to help change it. It's worse now than in the '80s.
Thanks for that context!
I did hear comments like, "it's not your fault if someone doesn't stay close to the peak. It's for the taking of anyone that can get close to the peak".
I see the logic behind it. Like if a noob is, let's say, 5m away from the peak, yes it's too far and we can reasonably say or think that the noob is on a different line up. Also, it seems like such a waste and feels wrong to let that 5 metres of goodness go to waste.
However it makes you wonder.. where do you draw the line? If I am 2 meters off the peak, can someone (who can air drop) waltz along inside of me and take priority, beecause he/she can? I'd have thought that's snaking and quite selfish.
@@Rk29th Yes! I agree, where do you draw the line? Again - Thank you for the reply. Our discussion is so essential if the sport of surfing continues to grow. 4 things to look at which will help.
Agan not talking about waves of consequence where it's life and death like Pipeline. But the regular surfer looks at the Pipe contest and he and his boys go out to a 3-foot break in San Diego and treat people the same as the Pipe Crew and they feel justified and supported in their actions.
1 = Changing the culture around the welcome of all levels in the lineup - right now the mainstream media paints this picture - "Here comes a --- 'Noob', 'Kook', 'Beeny', 'Clam or #&ick Dragger', 'Junkyard Dog', etc... All terms (there are many more) fully excepted in the glossary of terms by the WSL, Announcers, Sponsors, and Pro-level surfers as ways to describe or communicate with or about nonlocals and beginners. I work in education - this is called bullying. If this is the baseline of how kids are taught as acceptable on the beach? then the next level of bullying, forms of violence, is a natural step. CHANGE THE CULTURAL BASELINE.
2 - The PATH on a wave of a true beginner, 90% of the time, IS STRAIGHT! So why not ask them to take the inside and you take the second position. I've done this so many times, both as a beginner and at the next levels. Everyone wins. You both paddle for the wave together - If they don't make the wave you're up and running, if they make the wave they almost always go straight, then you're still up and running, and if by chance they make the wave and the bottom turn then you both yell scream and laugh and you give way. The key to this is meeting and talking to each other out in the lineup, talking it up, sharing surf stories etc... Then make a plan together and go for it.
3 - To increase the BUSINESS Revenues of Surfing begins with Culture change starting with the WSL televised pro-level events and pro surfers. More people are watching WSL events as their inspiration to return to surfing or try it for the first time. That is the business goal of the WSL - Bring more customers to the sport which will bring more sponsors who bring more money to grow the purses, support the youth, Jr, and development programs, etc.. everyone wins. From a PURE BUSINESS perspective - your new customers are being treated EXTREMELY POORLY and the WSL encourages and supports that bullying treatment by laughing about the rights of passage, you have to gain respect from the locals, you must go up and talk to them, and have to be strong with your voice, don't respond when your called all of these names, or get your new board dinged or tires slashed, etc...
4 - Start talking about and supporting the TWO PATHWAYS of world surfing and what it means to be a great surfer.
- The Greatest Pure Surfer - one with the ocean in all conditions, an artist on waves doing things which inspire others, world-class ambassador, and surfing any size wave around the world in all weather conditions.
- The Greatest Competitor - Great athlete, knowing the rules, blocking, mind games, timing, taking competitive risks, having the toolbox of the moves and tricks, and being on attack mode to win at all cost.
If you think about how this pertains to the local breaks. Usually, there are amazing pure surfers who are not only great when they catch a wave but also are amazing ambassadors cool people who call you by name when they say "Hey Kairand nice to surf with you today! Blessings brother, and say hello to that 110 degrees heat back in AZ for me will ya" (I will spend $800 to buy the board he is riding or the wetsuit he is wearing - I might even share with my friends)
vs
that hotshot who is fired up watching Kelly control his competitors at the Pipe Pro, this surfer will never ask for your name, thinks he owns the line because of his skill and wants to show that he's better than JJ or Medina powering through the lineup with only one goal - be the best that day. Because of his paddling speed, he gets to the inside positions all day long, whistling and calling people off the shoulder, spraying as many Kooks as he can - because he can. (I won't buy his brands, I might even tell my friends not to buy his brands) But he is just doing what he is seeing on TV.
I really believe that the WSL level promotes both forms of surfing and that this will help the surf culture grow in positive ways.
I personally like the new format for the WSL. It's a competition, not an entertainment tour - a small group of the best of the best competitors going at it to determine the World Champion.
But why couldn't they showcase videos and feature more pure surfers during the WSL contest? Celebrate both forms
I see lineups today where people aren't talking to each other, sitting silently, like it's a Pipe Final, all paddling for the position, taking everything so seriously, and all want that extra 3 meters of a wave to themselves to grab that extra turn or two and to somehow make a point that they're king of the beach? JOY of surfing together, like skiing, or snowboarding --- together enjoying this amazing beautiful art form that was gifted to use by the indigenous island cultures.
I love surfing, my Danish Grand Father loved surfing - Surfing is so important.
I've been the snake before. Accidently a few times, before realizing what I was doing. Surf etiquette can be complicated, I'm thankful for content creators like you who share this knowledge and help makes lineups better and safer for everyone.
As a beginner, I usually sit on the beach for 30 minutes and observe before going in to learn the patterns and respect the playground rules. These vids and everyone's comments help in understanding what I'm seeing. Thanks!
Another issue is board size/ volume disparity, where loggers just paddle a mile out and catch every wave before you can on a short board, this is then compounded when there are several of them, completely hogging the line up.
@Wes Smith [P] That´s a lie! Surfing was invented several hundred of years ago, people firstly were bodysurfing, then using something like a bodyboard, then starting to stand up on these"bodyboards", lastly were "longboards" used. Even in ancient times resources were limited, or they were even more scarces. The place which made surfing exposed to the world - Hawaii- only rich noble persons were allowed to have a longboard, because even their making had a large impact on environment, the rest of non-noble people, 90%, were shortboarders.
Thats so true!
I was on a longboard a few weeks ago at my local. It's a tough wave for shortboarders in general but it was just big enough that it was makeable about 1 wave/set. With a rising tide I kept finding that any wave I let go past was going unridden (despite their efforts), so I started paddling for/catching more. One of the shortboarders paddled out and yelled at me saying I was taking way too many. Am I the asshole if they weren't able to make them on their boards?
@@sharp-endmedia8314 they miss 75% at least, I see this all the time.
@@sharp-endmedia8314 Yes, you are! Even if they miss 100% of waves, they still have a right to waves because of being at the peak, what they do with their waves is up to them, bailing, missing or ripping. For me every wave by a longboarder is fucked up, even Joel Tudor`s would be, but I am not that brazen to exclude him from getting waves or dropping in on him. You would, if you were a normal surfer, using a surfboard according to your weight and abilities, drop in, it's your selfish attitude, disgraceful.
I have yet to witness the « waiting the longest » rule being applied in real life at my beach breaks :)
Waiting the longest in position
@@KalesBroccoli thanks for the correction :) but still I wish I was seeing that happen in real life :)
Well to be fair I’ve seen that happen on occasion when we were no more than 5 on a given peak.
never happens in california. hawaii it’s respected more
Yep, that bit at the end he describes as bad….any break in NSW with more than 5 out back. Better surfers, long boarders and SUPs sniping every wave. 🤷🏻♂️
Yeah I’ve been surfing a long time and in a crowded line up I’ve not experienced the wait your turn wish it was real but it ain’t sadly.
Etiquette died in covid...at least in San Diego.
What about when you leave the peak long and shortboarders were all hogging and missing anyway. They see you rippin on another and they all crowd over to where you moved.
I have had that happen 4 or 5 times in a single sesh, I move to different peaks and everyone follows.
I like your work Kale. But honestly, in 45 years of surfing, I've never been in a line-up where people take their turn. There's one rule only . . . Whoever is on the inside has right of way. Occasionally you might get a generous surfer on the inside that lets someone else have the wave.
totally agree
Lemme guess, you’re Australian? 😅
@@onezerooneo Yep.
true, at many breaks the person with inside position takes the wave .... but theres always that one guy/gal that paddles around you for inside position on every set wave... 😏
Yeah in a utopic world he would be right, but that's not reality.
One thing I tend to do if there's someone paddling out or waiting for me to pass while I'm riding is verbally let them know I see them and if I want them to wait right where they are, if I'll go behind them or in front of them, or what have you. I don't want either one of us to guess what the other one is going to do.
This scenario is too real, especially if you find yourself catching the first wave of a set which stalls
Out, or you are just inside catching small waves when a set rolls through… theres always “that moment” when you have to decide: to i break for the shoulder, or paddle towards the inside. Unfortunatley i usually end up with a zig zaggy combo of both, trying to read whats happening and get out if the way. Unfortunatly this doesnt always work, snd itd be nice to have a system of communication like turn signals are to a car to avoid this. When im on the wave i like to use my arms to kind of
Point which direction im going. I feel like a kook because i have been surfing for a long time and still run into this scenario a lot, as both the person who is the problem, and the person to whom the problem is occurring. Really its a two way street
Best video ever about surf etiquette. So useful, and many thanks for the different scenarios and the appropriate "what to say" in each situation. Congratulations, you're the best 😉
This is one of the best etiquette videos I've seen, but like the others, it still misses out on a common situation: the peaky beach break. With multiple, shifting, overlapping peaks, people will be taking off all over the place. Position becomes more important. You might be certain you've been waiting longest, but if the peak appears in a perfect position for another surfer, you will probably just let them have it, even if you technically could have charged over to get it. And vice-verse of course. But, there is still a sense of flexible fairness at play. For people within a reasonable paddle distance of a peak, it's nice if the ones who got rides (or paddled at waves recently) sit out and encourage someone who's waited longer to take it. The reason many beginners have trouble reading the lineup is that many of them are learning in these complex beach break situations, and it looks like total chaos. Thus, they just paddle at anything in their vicinity. We need to start addressing these complex situations so that people can learn to read them better. Only explaining surf etiquette as it applies to the perfect point break just forces people to conclude there is no etiquette whatsoever in the messy beach break and we end up with more chaos. Let's also address situations where you know another surfer is not sitting deep enough, or when no one is in position for a rogue peak and you're in a scrum of people paddling over to get it. Where I surf, these are all common situations, but not a single etiquette video addresses them.
If youre from a land locked state you "waited the longest" I own the beach baby.
At my local break there are often longboarders sitting 10 to 20m further out than the shorter boards and take every single wave that comes along. I normally just move along the beach, but I do wonder what the proper etiquette is in this situation?
Maybe time to say something
Just drop in on them. Or paddle battle with them on every wave and push them out of position. They need the exercise 😂
if longboarders are doing that, I start snaking their waves by taking off inside of them lol. If they say something to me, I point out the fact nobody else is catching any waves because they're going for everything
Hi we are post-beginner (!) and recently could have surfed some great conditions - for the UK! However we struggled to get past the whitewater, we tried duck diving and turtle rollls but kept getting knocked back and our boards whipped into the air. It was exhausting. I have a foamy and she has a mini mal so some tips would be great as we saw other surfers boards flying all over the place 😀 😄 so it wasn't just us with the problem
This video literally touches on everything that a beginner surfer should know. Excuse me, every beginner surfer NEEDS to know Everything that you’ve touched on in this video. You are such a great job on mentioning all the different aspects surfing etiquette and not only did you mention him but you were able to show them visually what you were actually talking about in that Ensures there’s no confusion on what you were talking about. In fact every single person who is about to take up surfing should have to watch this video. And I know that’s not possible but if it was possible there would be so many less issues, accidents, injuries, and drama in the water it would blow all of our minds. So with all that being said good job my brother, that was a near perfect informative & tremendously helpful video. And I know for the people who didn’t know these things before will definitely have a way better understanding of surfing etiquette that I guarantee will end up saving them from problems in the future. I applaud you Kale 👏🤙
🙏🏽
Most of the local points are too crowded, so I prefer the beach breaks, where you and your mate can still get a peak. I figure, by the time I master the beach break scene, I might have a chance at a point, (at high tide, onshore, Tuesday morning)!
The one I wish everyone would learn: even if the lineup is not as organized as in Kale's example here, if you have just ridden a wave and paddled back to the lineup, IT. IS. NOT. YOUR. TURN. YET!!!!! Recently there was a greedy longboarder (with the dreaded hipster man-bun, meh!) at Leo Carrillo who would sprint-paddle back to the front of the line ( the waves break next to a large rock so it is very clear where the priority positionbis) after every wave he rode, spin around IMMMEDIATELY, and catch the next wave that came through. Just infuriating! 😡
"priority position is" could not correct it once I posted it.
This happens a lot at Leo Carillo. In my experience it's not even the people I see there repeatedly.
This is one of the few times when it is okay to (safely) drop in. Also, feel free to shame him in front of the whole line up next time in between sets. Let him sit with the awkward tension. Snakes are the absolute worst.
@@tldrttyl how about tell them kindly? Maybe they have no idea about surfing etiquette...
Ever since the start of covid, people have started surfing more, which means new beginners. I find that on the worst days at my main break which is down in Manhattan Beach, there is 100 people out. No etiquette here btw.
my experience is that dropping in understood as a no-no everywhere, and maybe paddle out ettiquette too but there's massive disagreement on what constitutes as snaking. Even if you google it and read forums people can't agree, meaning it's hopeless to address it with someone in the lineup. Sadly many lineups just apply the "closest to the peak has priority" rule regardless of who was waiting longest and if most of the lineup acts that way you've no choice but to do the same if you want a wave (which makes them lineup awfully competitive and cramped by the peak. Another confusing situation is two surfers with equal priority catching the same peak but one going through the back door and calling the other to get off
I'm so flabbergasted that people don't understand snaking. I am trying to extrapolate this idea from the core surfing community (arguably those who have surfed longest) and spread it to the wider population. Look at the WSL rules, all these etiquette guidelines are reflected there.
@@KalesBroccoli There are many times more surfers that dont give a shit about the WSL or any other organization then do. There are also a good number who have been around longer. Competitions have nothing to do with what happens in the water on a day to day basis.
@@jfratis9081 My home break has tons of retired QS and even a CT guy or two. There are no rules at all. You can be sitting right on a wide open peak and people will paddle out to get inside of you. Everyone is either a pro or complete kook with 0 in between. I really enjoy the waves but it's the only rideable place within a 2 hour drive and it gets so bad that I'd rather just stay home most of the time.
A line up of kale's would be just lovely. Great video.
thanks Kale, clear explanation. Peace
Your the best man keep doing what your doing.
2:00 this should be shown in loop on a LCD display before entering any spot 😅 Possibly even with a pop quiz to make sure...
Hi Kale, thanks for the vid. I had this conversation with somebody and were not quite sure about this situation: What if there is a discussion as to where the peak is? Sometimes we get these small waves and you can kind of take off, lets's say, left from the peak, but surf it to the right, passing the peak while taking off, or while riding it. You could pass somebody who technically was closer to the peak, but that person also technically drops in on you. I guess, longest potential ride has priority? What if you take off on the same moment. My guess is, if you can surf the wave to the right, the person right from you must back off right?
nice one. you're an idealist Kale, no doubt haha. the most annoying (apart from the blatant drop in) is the "selfish paddler" going for the shoulder... and the worst when experienced/fit surfers do it. thanks for detailing this one, seems to be the most overlooked..
Always good etiquette and karma to sit on the shoulder and let a couple of waves pass you buy instead of paddling straight out and sitting 2mm away from the crew to wait your turn.
Don't go and paddle out on a peak where someone is surfing when there is an empty peak down the beach
Something that I struggle with, even as I border on intermediate level, is when the peaks are unclear such as on a beach break with big tides. The lineup tends to spread out across the beach and its very hard to tell whose turn it is where
I think those scenarios without a clear peak is just a free for all. But I think it's good to let others ride every so often, even if you have right of way, just so you aren't hogging all the waves
Yeah just gotta go with it and communicate
This can be challenging, just have to play it section by section usually - closest to the peak etc
Just fucking go bro
ahh man i love your videos thanks to you i can do snaps and i have a healthy workout program to get my pop up better and i built up the courage to catch 8ft waves man. very awesome man keep it up
Great guidance Kale, and lots of insightful and experienced comments here. We all love surfing with a passion, and it can be about respect and spreading good vibes if you choose that. If we were open to making more friends in the line up and bringing positive energy to it how cool would that be? And yes some days that’s not always me. Hope you get some good ones people, because everyday is better when you surf.
Finally someone explains snaking vs dropping in
Your videos are awesome.
Surfed with kale more than a handful of times. You could definitely use some of your own tips. Biggest snake
😂 maybe you’re just slow and out of position
It’s subjective right! What someone may consider being snaked may be the other surfer identifying the ability of the other surfer and the likelihood of them making the take off based from previous observations.
In Hawaii, waiting in position longest doesn’t mean you have priority. For us, it’s based on who’s been surfing that spot the longest. You could still be waiting the longest but if an old timer wants your wave, best you yield.
Ya, because you're just a glorified gang of crap surfers trying to change the rules to your advantage lol. Localism = garbage
I take it anyway and ride behind them as close as possible. Sure, I might sometimes give priority to an uncle but if I'm going for a wave and have right of way, I NEVER back off it, I don't care who else is going for it. Sometimes to get respect in a lineup you can't be giving away all your waves. If you come across as passive nobody in the lineup will respect you.
@Hanabadah I’ve run into that in Cali, usually from guys who are 40 or older.
Real life. 1st point is excellent. Paddle the opposite direction of where the rider is headed. 2nd point (priority) is just not practiced unless you have maybe 3 or 4 people out. It sounds nice though.
So true. Right or wrong, like it or not, the “having inside position” rule takes precedence over the “waiting the longest” rule 90% of the time at even moderately crowded breaks.
Good post! Re the First point -absolutely - I witnessed a guy get a punch in the head for his troubles doing that to a local out at Honolulu Bay a few years ago. The second point from Kale brings the murky perspectives of localism and capability into the equation. High performance breaks will have a pecking order for set waves. As a non-local you’ll need to prove that you are capable of handling the place (via smaller inside waves) before you’ll be ‘trusted’ to take a set……… places like Snapper Rocks (and Noosa during a cyclone) are a zoo of rabid pros and wannabe’s, best advice is to find a quieter place where you can get your wave count and skills up……. Unless what you want to do is hone your hassling skills!
@@minniman24 very good! It is an equation and a complicated one 😂 one that every surfer needs to figure out on their own over many years, many breaks and many waves. 🤙🏼
@@jblo76 Which a lot of the time is fine I think. What bugs me is a last minute paddle inside where I was obviously waiting when a better wave is obviously coming. But if someone has paddled back out and we've both been waiting a while and a wave comes they happen to be closest to the peak then that's fine. Or if they judge the peak better by sitting farther outside, then that's OK too. Of course I'm mostly talking about beach breaks here where peaks are coming in different places a lot of the time.
Ok, now one question.
What to do if you are a newbie who barely can ride up strait on the wave and have someone in potencial collision with you?!
If you're riding the wave? If you can tell they know how to paddle they should be able to paddle inside or outside of you if you just hold your line. 2. If you have the time and space and it's clear that they're just sitting there and you will probably hit them on your current path, then bail out. Fall off your board. Again...making sure you have the space with the length of your leash etc. 3. If it's too late for all of that, try your best to not look at the person you are about to hit. Focus on a line away from the surfer in the water and you just might be surprised that your board will follow and you will suddenly learn what a turn feels like. 4. It a collision is inevitable then just try your best to limit the damage. Most likely that means falling off your board as soon as you can. Cover up your face and head with your arms to avoid getting hit by either of the boards and hope they are doing the same.
Amazing content as always - thank you very much!
What kind of board were you riding and what size? Thxxxxxxxx!!!!!!!!! Niccce rippp sticcck!!!!!!
Thanks for the important video. I am often the only female surfer in the lineup specially when the waves are a little higher. Sometimes I have the feeling that I have to prove myself before the guys (sorry that I have to say that) let me take a waves. Even when I have priority someone drops in although the person saw me paddling towards the wave. Maybe thats just a feeling and of course it is not always like that... But for sure I need to work on my self confidence. 😊
great video and very well explained.
coming from the UK we don't tend to grow up surfing like a lot of Aussies, though some of us will regularly travel to surf we're definitely not on the same level.
i lived on the sunshine coast for 2 years and surfed Noosa mostly. I can honestly say the majority of the time it was really positive in the water, I soon got to know local faces and would always greet people and have a chat. there was plenty of times people would shout each other in and share party waves.
there was one guy who was always in a mood and shouting at people for paddling for a wave he was on, though he'd not made the section several times before. he'd have a moan and then immediately paddle around and snake someone.
i do find that when it comes to getting in some ones way it can be much worse at busy spots like noosa, sometimes you have multiple surfers coming at you and no where to go, and something thats a little frustrating is surfers often act like they were never less experienced and made those mistakes.
it was also very hard to compete with longboarders as they paddle out further and get into waves much earlier, i never really saw much in the way of line up etiquette and it would be near impossible to get a wave sometimes if a group of really good surfers were out.
I wish it would be a requirement to watch this video before being allowed to get out in the lineup 😂
Hey brother - always love your content!
Have you considered a video about ex-surfers returning to the water?
I’m in this demographic, surfed up until my mid-20s then life and career happened.
The last 3 years I’ve found my passion for the ocean again - the difference? 20 years of life, a bad knee and a bunch of weight.
I think there’s a large number of people in this group that you might be able to help out with something a little more specific to that story 🤙
and just keep smiling and have fun
OK I've asked this question to dozens of experienced surfers and never gotten a consistent answer. Here in Southern CA, I'll work through the lineup and finally be sitting right on the peak. I'll have clear position and start to go, only to have someone on a much higher volume board - like an 11' glider - sitting further from the peak paddle for my wave. Because of all their volume they're able to get to their feet first well before the wave has begun to crest, leaving me paddling between the about-to-break peak and a surfer who's up and riding. Who's wave it this? It feels like a pre-emptive shoulder hop/drop-in.... Some say up and riding rules, no matter position. Others say no, position rules and it should be my wave.
First time, I’d give him the wave. Second time, it’s your wave. If you try to say something and he does that awkward avoid-eye-contact thing, just drop in on him for the rest of the sesh.
Once at the Pass I was on a very tight line where I thought I could just miss the back of a boat that was trying to go out during my set wave. A young mal rider ahead of me threatened to drop in at the crucial moment, but instead ditched her board which flew up in the air and came down on my head knocking me off straight into the back of the boat. Fortunately I missed the propeller but my board hit the metal ladder at the back and was badly dinged. Classic!
super helpful, thanks
This is great - really nice summary!
(Good timing too - I ended up unsubscribing from How To Rip yesterday after their etiquette video 😂)
Honestly most of the time this happens with long boarders. I’ll be sitting close to the peak with a long boarder to my left or right by a good distance and they decide to snake a wave just cause they can. Pisses me off so much
Good longboarders are normally well behaved
Just drop in on snakes. They are the worst.
@@tldrttyl yeah if someone is snaking me on purpose i'll drop in on them every time
45 years of surfing, grew up at uncrowded points, reefs and beaches, so the local crew upheld all the etiquette mentioned in the video. But whenever the town clowns arrive, they always hassle for every wave and go against all the basic rules. I ended up surfing around the world for many years and found very few places where proper surf etiquette is practiced. Usually the small out of the way places where there's maybe a handful of locals out, but even then they can be territorial and conciously paddle on your inside (which admittendly I did to visitors in my younger days). I now unfortunately live in the UK (south Cornwall) and have never come across a more clueless surf nation. I've never been snaked, hassled and dropped in on this much anywhere else in the world. The Brit surf culture has taken clueless surf etiquette to another level. For instance, one thing that's always irked me is when I find an empty peak somewhere, often a long walk away from the crowds, but idiots come and sit right on top of you because they saw you catch a few good waves. Worse even when they then hassle you. This happens all the time in the UK.
Ya, unless one of your crew decided to randomly not like someone who was following etiquette but was also good and getting waves, so you drop in on them/harass them/threaten them. Localism = garbage
I felt the look of dissapointment with those kayakers! Good video dude!
I was at my local point break and this one guy got in the way of my wave while paddling back out 3 times. He then yelled at me for "almost hitting him". Wish I could send him this video haha
wow. i would've been telling him to paddle wider or inside (to the whitewater) after the second time. often at PB's there's less sweep wider, too, so a longer distance paddle but easier.
@@1974mazdarx3sedan yeah I wanted too haha. This was at Topanga and if you didn't know, that wave full of beginners and angry locals who take off on whatever wave they want. So this situation didn't annoy me too much until he got mad at me. Then I did say that I wouldn't have "almost hit him" if he didn't didn't paddle directly in front of me. I'm still a teen though so that's about as much as I'm ever gonna say to anyone older than me in the lineup
I've never been in a lineup where everyone patiently waits their turn, there is always at least one person who will paddle straight to the inside and take off on the next available wave even if they got the last one. This happens even if you know everyone in the lineup, if you are a bit of the pace you have to rely on the more generous surfers, there are always a couple of them around so it evens out a bit.
Love it brother :)
You'll have to do another video for surfing with Brazilians.
Haha I find that it really doesn't matter what nationality - it's a certain late beginner / early intermediate "nobody owns the ocean" demographic that is the consistent factor!
"hey did you notice me on that wave?" .....lol.
ok serious question:
Should surfer etiquette be extended to paddle boards SUP?
I say this because they can catch the wave sooner than a surfer and they are already standing? Therefor if the code of ethics is given to them they are always going to have priority.
Yes. they’re often the worst offenders
Hate those people who constantly paddle too far inside and then rant about dropins. Ego is a bitch.
Note to beginners, if you missed the wave, it doesn't mean you get the next one.
How funny would it be if you paddled out to a random break tomorrow and Kale suddenly shows up and is a wave bully.
I’m sure people have interpreted that before
Weight distribution on a short board and dropping into bigger waves compared to smaller ones
Well said.
Cheers mate … always learning …
🏄♂️ 💦 ☀️🇦🇺🦘🦘
It'd be so nice if lineups actually worked like this. :-)
Perhaps share the fun is the motto, here's some tips to help share the fun. 'Rules' are blah blah...I also accept myself or others yelling out party wave if someone or myself accidentally drops in.
I've been pretty lucky up in the PNW (U.S)with lineup ettiquette . We tend to have a mix of long and short boards , I'm on a longboard , so the takeoff spot is varied, plus it's sand , no reefs so it moves anyhow. I just try to make eye contact and be generous. Lets all have a good day. If a set is coming in that I plan to pass on I just paddle over it and sit up and make it clear it's somebody else . Or just say "Not me!" out loud . Maybe even give a hoot when somebody else gets up. It tends to get contagious fast . I lived in southern California in the 80's so I'm no stranger to a more aggro, locals only vibe , but I'm too old for that now. If a spot is a hassle I will just move . On a 9'6' , and still some pretty serious paddle strength I could pick off whatever I wanted if it came down to it but that defeats the point of surfing to me. Thing about being an asshole is , I get to go home feeling great, but they have to go home still being an asshole
I love to learn more about surf with you Kile. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. Hello from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
Hi Kale or anyone experienced,may I have a question, I’m surf short board, in that wave I’m close to the peak but other longboard not close to the peak paddle in from outside try to catch that wave, in this case I should holdback or keep catching it?
Very contextual but sounds like they’re trying to snake you. Depends who’s been waiting longest
For people who don’t understand why some advanced surfer can get angry.
1 - Waves is a limited resource. if you are not able to take off, generating speed and turns, look for a break a bit mellower. People surf for fun, rescuing a beginner in 6 ft barrels is not fun.
2- the more serious the waves are ( hollow and shallow reef barrels for instance), the more etiquette and experience u need in order to be accepted in the Peaking order by locals.
If you are good and confident enought As a tourist or non local, u need to show respect in the lineup to inspire the locals to let you surf with them.
3- a lot of intermediate-beginners hanging around peaks they should not surf, disturbing peacking order by hazardous placement, putting themselves and the others in danger.
Finally, when you will be accepted in the peaking order, you will see the guy who have being waiting for the longest always get prior.
When I talk to people who don't surf or maybe attended a surf lesson on vacation :), I tell them surfing can be like a flock of seagulls fighting over a piece of fish. I think that some it up quite nicely.
I think you have (perhaps conveniently) left out the "unwritten rule" that is localism. When you are an aggressive local, you can ignore all of the other rules :) It is unfortunately quite common....
The way I deal with aggro locals who break all etiquette is by dropping in on them. When they protest, just say, “since when do you care about surf etiquette?”
@@tldrttyl sure bud. Till yo catch cracks and we all laugh
this is very helpful i wish there was more insight ty
Coooool awesome Thxxxxxxxx!!!!!!!
If I paddle for a wave then pull out cause I saw someone else on it, do I have to join the back of the line?
Contextual - there’ll be people who replace you. Best not to paddle if someone is on
You shouldnt even be allowed in the water until watching this. Well done.
Awesome vídeo. Surfing in Brazil Where I live is very difficult to deal with unpolite surfers. Everyone here wanna be like Medina. And this is so annoying.
Couple of other situations. Groups of surfers who sit there talking and not paying attention to the waves are a real problem. The surf is a great place for socializing, but people will be a lot friendlier to you if they notice that you’re alert and paying attention, and know how to behave out there. If you want to chat with your friends, pull over to the side away from the main lineup. Chances are a wave or two will appear where you are anyway and you can get some rides with your friends.
Also, people who wait on the inside with their boards sidewise, i.e., parallel to the wave. Your board is anywhere from 7 to 10 feet long. At least two, if not three surfers can ride through that space. Learn to sit with your board facing the wave, then spin around quickly and paddle if you want to catch one. If you face the wave, it’s easy to see a surfer paddling into a wave coming at you, and easy to quickly lie flat on your chest and start paddling away from them, preferably into the white water as Kale says here. But if you’re sitting sideways, you have to both turn and paddle away, and you’ll be a lot slower to get out of the way. A LOT SLOWER.
And lastly, Kale mentions it a bit here, but it’s really annoying to see a newbie out there trying to catch every wave that comes along and getting in everyone’s way. There’s a reason you’re missing waves. Better to sit and think a bit about why than just going for the next one blindly. You’re wasting a lot of energy and learning nothing otherwise.
When I started surfing at age 50 at the famed - and crowded - Waikiki beach, I would spend probably 90 percent of the time off to the side, watching, listening and waiting. I saw how people lined up, noticed who the good surfers were, and who was older and out of shape like me. Two hours in the water, and I’d have maybe 5 or 6 good rides, and that was plenty. And after awhile, they were saying hi when I got out there and encouraging me to get on the better waves. That’s still the case and it’s been 17 years now.
Waiting your turn on a beach break is crazy if there is a huge group. You will not get a wave. I’m curious how many waves you guys catch an hour in a crowded day with decent swell?? If I get 12-15 waves in 2 hours I think that’s more then fair. More like 10 honestly
*MY TURN* ✋🏽
Lucky guy, you surf a reef break... do this on a beach break in France during summer... ahaha
@kale Thank you for this gem! At last, a video that not only discusses the rules but also delves into how they unfold in the thrilling reality of surfing, complete with all its delightful chaos. More importantly, it offers guidance on handling the unexpected. Let’s join together as friendly, well-meaning surfers like yourself to transform the often macho and hostile surfing culture into one filled with love and honesty, bringing warmth and camaraderie back to the waves. ♥
🙏🏽🙏🏽
Most of the snakes these days are SUPs at my local break, 9/10 times they’re on the wave before you can even start paddling
Ban SUPs
@@KalesBroccoli my mate would just say “if you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em” 🤣 anyways great video man 👍
Give them the first wave. If they snake you again, just drop in.
yessssss! at last
The 1 about the guy sitting further out waiting its ok if you feel his too wide and paddle inside but just be cool and let him have the 1st wave. It sets a good precident
👏🏽
Wish everyone was Kale in the lineup. That would be the perfect lineup. At my break in Santa Cruz CA, there are clicks or groups and they hog the peak. You have to be aggressive, it’s the only way unfortunately.
Everybody comes across as an a-hole at some point - we’re all in our own little worlds out there
Instead of waxing my board I wax my feet. I've found that helps improve my body boarding
I surf at Wrightsville beach and there's a break on the north side of the pier that always causes fights...People will paddle as close as they can to the pier then take every right that comes through then they'll try to fight you if you drop in on them.....So it's like they cut to the front of the line in priority then try to fight you when you say fuck it and drop in. I think surf rules are pretty fkn dumb; especially at beach breaks. Respect whoever is on their feet first and don't put anyone in danger and your pretty much good to go.
Of course,
Tune them! Lighties need to wake the .... up!
I also think you need to surf with people of the same ability, and on a peak most closely aligned with your abilities. If you go surf with good surfers on a wave at the top of your abilities as a beginner you will get almost nothing
Good vid about rules. U can throw it all away surfing at the pass though lol
If somebody said “hey.. I noticed u caught two waves in a row” and I don’t know them… the rest of your session is gonna suckkk
That’s why it’s best not to say anything and to just drop in on them the next time.
Also surf etiquette: if you see lots of surfers out, please take your kayak somewhere else. Lol. I’ve seen some sketchy shit when kayaks try to get mixed in with crowder surf spots.
Please surf your kayak down the beach with nobody around haha yes
Not anyones fault but yours if you choose the wrong tool. Go to a different wave.
I wish it was true the line up, i have never seen yet a line up where more experienced surfers respect the line up and i see the same people taking waves, paddling back in, seeing me waiting yet taking the next wave and when i have said something they react as if i am crazy. I am yet to see an experienced surfer with "consciousness " of those around them.
Maybe you’re waiting out of position? I see it happen a lot 🙏🏽
@@KalesBroccoli some times for sure, but there has been a couple when i was in the right spot yet no acknowledgment of line up and it is hard specially when they paddle by you, so they KNOW you have been waiting. Trust me, my first instinct is always check WHAT I AM DOING, if i am right then i look at whts happening with others. Although i am in France and i am not French and learning fast that french people are really secretly extremely rasists, sadly to say...
Cool now when a local does this stuff on purpose then threatens you with violence what's the solution?
🤷🏼♂️
Drop in on him and say bring it
I just wish people shared waves
Maybe when there's 3 people out and they all know each other it's take turns. Otherwise it's the law of the jungle.
There's a rumour that once a location has been your home break for a certain length of time, you are granted magical powers that place you above any priority laws and systems, and all you have to do is paddle around growling the secret password phrase "I've been surfing here for 30 years!" (with bonus cred points amongst the surf-gods if you mix in a lot of expletives while saying it...) to anyone who's not your best mate or the local bait shop owner...
can confirm this is true..? 🤪
The magical powers include paddling right by you while avoiding eye contact and ignoring your entire existence..
Good attempt at explaining snaking but on a beach break with inconsistent peaks it is far more nuanced. It's like pornography. Can't define it but you know it when you see it.
Hahahaha great definition
The worst thing is sitting out the Back and catching the Bomb Wave of the Day and then having to deal with all of the morons who were sitting way too far in getting in your way trying to scramble for the Horizon 🤦♂
Byron bay footage
And then you have these grumpy old men with their 50L+ that will always pass everyone...
Priority for the longest waiter got it
Some random Local : my priority :)
Tbh you give respect you get respect. But don't be a push over
This man really dropping in on an old couple on a canoe in 1 ft waves and then making a video calling them snakes 😂😂😂
It's just an example bro, and it's funny.