When I started surfing the first thing I did was give a greeting to local guys in the water I knew were good. I'd usually make a joke about me just starting and how I suck. They'd be cool and answer questions or tell me tips to help me. I realized quickly noone cared that I wasn't any good because I was respectful in the water. They'd tell me "get that one "picking out beginner waves for me and scream to me instructions. As weeks went on I became part of the local group and ended up hanging out with them for years. I never became a good surfer but loved it and loved the culture and friends I made. Being honest and respectful can go a long ways in the water and in life.
Sick comment Southie👍. I don't live near the surf so im not local anywhere. And I generally surf pretty average waves. Having said that I'm also usually one of the better surfers in the lineups I surf. And surf them a lot more than most "locals". I'm just always respectful, friendly and try to find a spot where there isn't too much competition for waves. I'll always be the guy surfing an average bank with minimal crowd rather than surfing the best peak with a heavy crowd. Used to live on the Gold Coast. Wouldn't be able to handle the crowds anymore. Too hectic.
Yeah, if you're a pleasant and nice person to surf with people care a lot less about how good you are. Localized waves usually means it has a community of guys who work together and share resources. Compare that to lineups like Snapper or Rincon where everyone outright competes with one another. It's a completely different vibe, and I actually really like it. If you don't like localism, I'd bet you're going to like what replaces it even less. With localism you only have a minority of guys at the top being aggressive wave hogs. Without localism everyone is an aggressive wave hog. Without localism you're going to have to compete a lot harder for the scraps.
yeah. Most people arent going to get that bent out of shape if you accidentally do something wrong. Its when beginners act like they know better than the locals that you run into issues
As someone just getting back into surfing I find the better surfers are the least courteous in the water, especially good groms. They seem to think they deserve more waves cause they will "get more out of the wave" than a less experienced surfer
@@Jesterian This isn't how most world class waves work though. Or even good waves in areas with a lot of surfers. If I step off the plane in Honolulu and paddle out on a 6-8ft sunny day in December and a set comes my position doesn't mean shit. I'm getting burned. And there are just not enough waves for everyone to get in line and wait their turn. Instead your relationships and how good you are determines if it's your wave or not. Pipe is on the extreme end of the spectrum but this is how etiquette plays out at most advanced waves. There are just too many surfers and not enough waves. If a guy takes off on an overhead barreling wave and does the exact same thing he would do on a waist high burger a very good and very valuable resource is getting wasted.
Being respectful goes for paddle boards and longboards too. Don't sit outside and catch EVERY wave just because you can start riding from a mile out at sea. Share with the short boarders too.
I get complaints from local surfers about hogging the waves and I am on a bodyboard. Sorry, if you are constantly going for a shoulder I don't care how local you are. You need to make an effort.
? I live in Florida and the waves don't get that big we honestly Wait for that 5-6 for a while but what would you consider a long board? Asking for knowledge not disrespect.
Hi Kale, shortboarder of 4 years here who loves your videos! Before shortboarding I spent most of my teens SUP surfing so I'd like to add one more piece of etiquette. If I'm SUP surfing, after catching a wave I'll paddle back out to the shoulder of the lineup and then sit down and wait for a few waves to come through. This is a statement of intent of saying "I'm not standing, therefore I won't paddle for the next few waves". From the surfers experience it also feels less like someone is going to fall on top of you from just standing around. Finally, when I do stand back up it makes clear which wave I'm about to paddle for and gives everyone plenty of warning! 👍
I've been surfing for 35 years and I can honestly say I can count on my right hand the number of times I've been in the line up that proceeded in a logical manner. Even on point breaks with solid swell. Just because you think it's your turn or you have "priority" doesn't mean you do. Surfing with buddies different deal, everyones pretty cool and no drop ins. Combat surf pretty well rules.
It always comes down to good observation, when I see someone paddle over I always say hello and break the ice with them, most people go surfing to leave the rules elsewhere, we never own a wave if a break is to busy il find somewhere else,. The sea is a big place, respect everyone and if someone drops in or bails out in front of me I help them out with a bit of guidance to help keep them safe without putting them off,. And iv never walked away from a surf session feeling frustrated at someone else or what would be the point ' beginner's appreciate a bit of helpful guidance too' and if it's a party wave just go straight everyone. People who take themselves too seriously ruin their own fun
Not true. You need to study what's happening. Free for all is were every wave is a party wave. If you keep on missing out it's your problem, not understanding the strategy for the situation. It's not a queue at the coffee shop. Sorry Kale, no disrespect.
Where I surf, everybody snakes. I used to try to act like we were in a line but eventually had to give up because I constantly found myself at the back of the "lineup"
Same here, I’d wait then eventually paddle for a wave and have like 5 kids paddle on top of me. Eventually i just got tired and would take any wave I could get
Hey Kale - such a great video ! Been surfing for 20+ years and you literally take words out of my mouth! Seen so many people getting angry or frustrated at each other because of lack of etiquette / knowledge of these rules... Maybe something worth adding is the basic gentleman rule - regardless of where a surfer is positioned compared to you, if you're just back from taking a wave and he / she's been waiting, just let him / her go! And also, maybe a call for surf instructors to teach these rules to beginners, a lot of them don't!
good surfers dont get frustrated. the frustration comes from those that cant get good waves, so they end up dropping in in front of someone that had better positioning than them.
Videos like this should be mandatory for beginners. My local break is a nightmare for beginners snaking and dropping in, simply as they have no idea of why they shouldn't do it.
At 2:06 you said "to be snaked by a beginner". In my experience, "dropping in" is typical of beginners, but sneaking is way more typical of medium to advanced surfers. Sneaking requires anticipation reading the wave and often paddling harder than the sneaked surfer. I've seen it way more often done by stronger locals marking "their" territory than by beginners.
Agreed, my opinion is to be in priority you need to be deepest but obviously not so deep you'll get caught behind. If you're sitting there and not the deepest but in your own head think you have priority, what makes this so? Have you been waiting the longest? How is anyone else meant to know this? It's not like we can keep track of how long it's been since each surfer has caught one. My opinion is that the surfer with the best positioning is in priority, any other way seems like a recipe for miss understandings. Having said this I feel like snaking is something you recognise when you see it, so maybe this situation was such a case, personally i'd let them have it because paddling in on someone whose closer to the pocket just don't feel right to me.
I'd say it's worth emphasising how blissful it is to surf a break with a proper line up and people sticking to these rules. It doesn't happen often but it's so nice when it does. It's more relaxed and you can even chat a bit when you're in the back of the line😉
SUPs allowed a lot of people who never surged into the line up who never were groomed in the etiquette. Then there are the guys who know the rules but assume because they’re always further outside, the rotation doesn’t apply to them.
Cannot agree with this enough. A lot of older LB souls out there know the rules but came from a day when you got told off when you didn't belong (or worse), I can share a lineup with them any day of the week and we all get a good wave count. It's newer generations (of surfers, i.e. including people who picked it up later in life), new technology and over-commercialization of the sport that is making the goons more and more prevalent out there and it is a source of never-ending frustration.
@@matthewfrench7494 or 55 yo locals on SUPs lapping every ecent ride, as the comment said. Its all good and well talking about respect but my new rule is to drop on an sup any day. Unless they stop hogging the wave. Dont care if their older or live closer. Fuck em.
This video should be watched by every aspiring surfer, and some surfers who should know better! People seem to grasp the drop-in rule and happily paddle to your inside, snake and then get angry if you decide to take your wave. I've tried to calmly explain in the past but the default position is pure righteous fury of the snake... You didn't go into the miss your wave rule - this is a big one for me. The number of times someone will paddle for and miss a wave, and then go for the next one just blows my mind...
It just makes a loose loose situation. There is jockeying for position and there is just clear snaking; and I agree when you were already in the best position and someone goes deeper inside; its still your wave; but then its just the law of the jungle.
its obviously not your wave if they were able to drop in on the peak, and you were out on the shoulder. learn to drop in late, in the peak, and the problem will go away. just because you paddle for a wave, doesnt make that wave "yours" your sense of entitlement is off the chart. its not your wave until you have the skill to drop in at the peak and there is no one behind you.
I've grown up at the north shore of Oahu and the way you described snaking was bizarre to me because when I'm in the water whoever is deepest on the lineup has priority no matter how long they've been there with a few exceptions. also the way you described dropping in is the exact way we picture snaking the wave. thank you for the video though and i love the be respectful to locals tip, the locals in my home breaks beat up people that don't know the rules
On the North Shore, so many out of town wanna be heroes come to prove themselves that any the locals create their own "line up". If you grew up there you know that the experienced surfers out there could make it so you never got a wave if they wanted to. It is more likely that they allow you to get a few while making sure non-locals don't get in the way. Sure, the best of the best sit the deepest get the waves they want. But they also let some waves go so the rest of the locals get theirs too. But if you are new to it, you're lucky to get one or two in an hour on a good day.
I would call north shore as a passive aggressive positioning battle especially on non life threatening days - where everybody is friendly but you have to constantly battle for positioning.
I thought the same thing. Like if a beginner is not sitting on the top of the peak, I’m not going to sit there and wait for you to ruin where you should be taking off on the wave. Paddle as close to the true Peak of the wave is without jamming too close to someone. If they’re not as dee as they should be you paddle around them. Just don’t do it right when a wave is coming and paddle in front of someone and shoulder hop. I’d say most of the time it’s a case by case basis
Used to surf in Reunion Island. Same stuff. Whoever sit the deepest gets the wave. Of course it resulted in very experienced surfers and longboarders getting ~80% of the waves.
You did a great job articulating localism....thx for that. But I still think it’s such a strange concept....maybe because I started surfing after my 30’s...? I live literally across the road from my break and have been surfing every week for years....every time I see somebody out my instinct is to welcome them and behave like they are at my house...like “here’s a chair and a drink”....maybe I’m wrong...
It’s a selfish sport The chairs and the drinks move in and out of the house depending on the conditions, they’re elusive, some are more comfy and better tasting than the others, now al of a sudden nobody is sharing haha
The way I see it, a localized wave has an organic community attached to it. Localized lineups are much more communal and collaborative than waves with comparable quality. The guys have surfed together for years, so they treat each other differently than the lineup does at a place like Snapper or Rincon. The biggest mistake a lot of people make is paddling out at a localized lineup and competing hard for waves, which threatens the collaborative and communal vibe. This will piss people off. Localism used to place a lot of importance about where you live, but with real estate prices and the modern job market it's changed. Now it's pretty much about your relationships with other guys in the water.
On the east coast of the US, you'll see more snakes than surfers. I've been surfing my local break for seven years and they don't even consider me a local because I live 20 min away, even though I surf every month of the year including in the snow. Some people have absolutely no respect.
Triple agreeance here. NJ surfer. It's tough but gotta respectfully stand up for myself as well. What's even worse is when kids literally paddle in front of you because they think they're good enough to do so, not even a local thing. Gets gross
100% confirm. Obx local here, groms constantly dropping in on you. Collisions galore. Beginners and their foamies on the inside getting in everybody’s way. Older dudes with longboards will constantly cut you off even if they’ve surfed the past 5 waves in a row. Surf schools and their teachers cutting people off left and right. No respect, especially from the tourist surfers
You are so polite when you talk about the groups. We all know who they are :P. One of the worst etiquettes for me is when you are paddling back and the guy in front of you is bailing out of his board instead of duck-diving. That's so inconsiderate and dangerous.
Yeah im always super uncomfortable when im paddling out and there is someone in front of me i tend to avoid it whenever i can. Need to really improve on my duckdives tho i still ditch my Board way too often
One of the most dangerous things to do is paddle behind someone. This is surfing 101. You get hit its your fault. Take responsibility for where YOU are and you wont have to worry about what other people are doing.
And the ones who think they can paddle back to the exact spot at the peak and not give the next person a wave because he is “in position “. Many lineups stay in the same order of people, but the well controlled group will keep it fair and take turns no matter who is the closest to the peak. It’s rare tho.
Took me a long time to realize snaking was a no-no while surfing at North Steyne/Queensy and Freshwater. Drop in rule applies but no one gives a shit how long you've been waiting or how many people you've just paddled up the inside of. Very frustrating.
Whats irritating as well is when you have people paddling up the take off zone and not even attempting to get out the way for you...happened to me a lot in France.
I started surfing in the early 70s when you learned the hard way, I live next to trestles and I have to say I’ve never seen people “taking turns” but surprisingly the best and most local out there pretty cool about not taking all the waves.
Man, times have changed? I’m 47 and surfed in my teens and it was a free for all, the best surfers got all the waves. I’m glad it’s changed because I just retired and bought 2 surfboards to learn to surf again. These videos and ones like it have helped me choose boards!
It's been a year..Are you still surfing? 48 here. Planning on getting back to the beach soon to see if I can still do it. I still know how, but just not sure how my body will hold up haha.. peace!
@@steyer-crmg same here. was 240 pounds, now down to 207. going to try and lose about 25 more before I get out in the water. haha..best of luck to you!
Good stuff - im getting old now and though it was enough to think of etiquette 30 years ago when the world seemed crowded yet by todays standards seem like a black and white movie. I think beginners should not be afraid to say if a takeoff seems steep or the set too big for them to call off and let someone ready to take advantage of the ocean giving a moment . Sometimes we are giving respect and need to still track the wave as silence leads to an unnecessary situation. If you do not go and take charge - really decent etiquette based surfers will drop every time. Its just life. Learn and grow . Apologies if this seems a rant - I think beginners should be aggressive as it is the best thing they will ever do with their time. Boiling it down - look people in the eye and encourage them to go - when you go go - if not let it be open to someone who feels it. Thanks
I was surfing at Snapper Rocks on a very small day with a long wait between sets. There were many surfers out most were fairly average or beginners. There were 2 surfers who were much better than everyone else and would always get the best waves of the set and immediately paddle back to the peak (front of the line). Next set that comes through they would get the best waves again, sometimes there were only 2 waves in the set. I think beginners cop it and get called out for bad etiquette but I also think experienced surfers knowingly break the rules especially when there is a short supply of waves and they know they will be in for a big wait if they follow the rules. On this day, most other surfers were not good enough to take off right at the peak and were looking for more of a shoulder take off. But because these two better surfers were taking off at the peak we couldn’t drop in on them even though it was obvious it was not their turn. What do you do in this situation?
surf somewhere else dude. etiquettes nice when it happens but this video is largely not a reflection of any kind of reality. You get good at surfing by getting more waves, so what youll find is the best surfers are the greediest. I might be wrong about how it was back in the day when everyone knew each other out of the surf and had to deal with each other out in the community, but these days when no one knows whos who its all a load of shit, particularly at busy east coast points. you can try your quiet word but if theres twenty other blokes lining up to do the exact same thing, its obviously not happening. if you dont start young and learn to take off deep and steep, then your better off getting away from the crowd, and before anything else the lack of crowd is what you should look for when your checking the surf. youd be suprised what people are ignoring even a couple of hundred yards away when they're squabbling at the top of the line. finding those spots and developing that knowledge is what you should do.
Great video very tricky topic! There's so many different kinds of annoying surfers: The clueless beginner - really annoying but excusable, 2 - The piss taking grumpy local - best steered clear of, 3 - The shredding over friendly ripper - usually super chatty and nice then proceeds to snake you, 4 - the dangerous over enthusiastic euro holiday surfer - likelyhood of an out of control hypto crypto to the face is high and drop ins guarenteed, but I'd still rather deal with all that than sit in line at a wave pool (maybe apart from the texas one that looks rad).
Snaking has a wide spectrum beginners do it without knowing it but also experienced surfers love to do it, especially if they are locals haha but the worst are the longboards and sup (sometimes I wish I had a longboard secretly)!!
Fine in theory, haven't seen it in practice since me and my mates were surfing in the late sixties, early seventies and then it only worked because their were only 4 of us who surfed in the town.
Good one. I never drop in (on purpose) but it annoys me when you know a guy doesn't surf the spot and does. I'm down with local priority as long as they don't take everything😁
Love this! My dad always taught me these rules and said it’s the law. Growing up in Hawai’i I’ve seen uncles get super nutz. Not as bad nowadays but they used to aim for you with tank long boards for fun 😂. This guide woulda been so different 15 years ago.
Wish more people would watch this. Jockeying for the inside position is still snaking. I don’t care if you’re inside of me after I waited 10 minutes for that wave and you paddled inside of me just as the wave comes. “Jockeying” is for surf contests-not free surfing
100% on point. Respect the etiquette and know you place in the pecking at a spot that’s not your local then you’re at the bottom below every grom. You can gradually earn a place as the session goes on and you respect everyone in the water. No patience for poor etiquette.
snaking is a tough one, i'm not a great surfer coming from the UK but having lived in Australia for 2 years surfing Noosa and the sunshine coast you find yourself in crowded waves with locals who have surfed their whole life and will snake you at every chance they get. you try to stick to the etiquette, but with surfing being as popular as it is these days i've found that when you follow the rules while few others do then you are giving up your chance at getting waves. it becomes competitive and you have to snake to even get a look in. you'l find a few guys and girls in the group out on that day will out surf everyone and go for everything to so you end up hesitantly paddling for waves someone is on in the hope they don't make a section. and i sometimes found that you'l pull off a wave only to have them pull off seconds later instead of shouting you to go for it. lets face it, in a ideal world everyone would follow the rules, but it only takes a few that don't to make it near impossible for anyone else to get a wave
The one rule I find people get confused with most is when you paddle and get up early on a wave and then someone gets up on your inside, having seen you already paddling and standing up and tries to call you off the wave
Always an issue. Guy on inside try’s to call you off because he’s on your inside but my view is if you’re legitimately on that wave first, as far as I’m concerned you go. Wedges are the worst for it.
@@Les_Grossman80 Yeah the particular incident I'm thinking of, the guy saw me paddle and stand up first on a set before he'd even turned around. He then started paddling, got up and started screaming on the wave whilst I was racing one or two sections further down the line than him. Whilst sucking in breath in between sentences of his following tantrum, after falling off the wave and waiting for me to paddle back out from close to shore, I told him that he'd seen me not only get up first but paddle for the wave before anyone else, which he said didn't matter at all and that he had right of way. Unfortunately this is a detail that I've never really seen covered in surf etiquette videos, and in my experience there does seem to be a lack of knowledge of how this situation goes, although this rule does vary from wave to wave.
@@markm4074 I assume you are riding a longboard? its pretty stupid for a shortboarder to paddle into a wave behind a longboarder that is ALREADY riding. however, did you both paddle for the wave at the same time? you were already up and riding before he paddled correct? and he fell? it sounds like he is a kook. its a good idea for you to learn to take off right on the peak, you can still get in early, but in this way there is no question, taking off in the peak will improve your skill
@@xisotopex What do you think about this scenario? Rider A is a bodyboarder and sitting on the inside, the set comes in. Rider B is a surfer and both riders paddle for the wave at the same time. Rider B paddles in front of rider A at the last moment as the wave sets up, the top of the peak forms and both riders are lined up the same. Rider A does not back down because he started off on the inside and he doesn't need to stand up to be riding the wave. Rider B stands up at the top of the peak and drops in directly on top of rider A who is already on the on the face of the wave and about to turn. Rider B is pissed off and thinks his wave was stolen because he had the top of the peak. Rider A doesn't like backpaddlers despite the danger of the situation.
@@apolopena yeah backpaddlers suck, but thats the way it goes. whoever is on the inside has priority. my recommendation to rider a is grab b's leash and give him a good dunking. barring that, its the law of the jungle, and if you cant beat em, join em, and give rider b a taste of his own medicine.
As a beginner surfer I am really worried about unintentionally snaking someone, though at the same time I won't put up with other people's bs. I think surfing etiquette is very important to learn from the beginning
@@ageofsempires2968 Yes, this is how most good to world class waves work. If you want to surf the best waves possible you're going to have to deal with some BS no matter what. If you don't like better surfers using their ability to get more of the best waves, you should surf waves that are not as popular with advanced surfers.
yep you have surfed second point malibu so you really get an idea of snaking there. we call it the inside game. someone backdoor paddling you when they sat beside you after they caught their wave and racing to the next wave even though it should be your turn. paddle take the inside and 95% of the time they are too deep to even make the section resulting in a shit drop in with no one getting the wave in the end. the problem is 90% of surfers can't tell where a good section is because they dont take the time to actually figure out how the waves break. they just see a wave and start paddling with no regard for how the wave is forming. i always even if i have the inside and have been waiting will look at the wave judge who is in the better position to get the best ride and if someone is in a better position i just say "u want to take this" well before the wave is there so they can actually set up and not have a last second drop in. then when they paddle back out i try to explain why when i had the right of way i let them hop on the wave instead of taking the inside and trying to make the section hoping that they get the idea and sometimes it catches on in the line up and you have 10 people kind of loosely talking to each other and everyone ends up getting 2-3X more waves because of it.
The last time people waited to take turns in Malibu on any of the three points was in 1956. I think Australia is like 50 years behind California in overcrowding.
Thanks for a very sensible video. As a keen beginner moving towards intermediate, ive been shouted at in the ocean but didn’t know what i did wrong. Makes it hard to figure it all out with seemingly conflicting rules. Also knocks the wind out of learning. No one wants to be a dick.
thanks for the video, I was a snake myself without even knowing that was a thing, no one ever bothered to explain it and I was angery at people for looking at me in a bad way, now I understand hahaha
Here in Arica, Chile (southamerica), we just respect who is more near to the waves than everyone else, that mean being in the bottom, rigtj where waves come, and we dont get in the wave of the guy who is near to the foam and the wall (we call this: be near to the "cacho")
I believe most people that snake arent even aware that there even exists an etiquette to surfing. I dont know about where you all surf and how folks are, but what i always try to do in order to avoid it is to make acquaintances with the usual snakers for they are usually always the same, that way they start to see you more as a friend than a competition. Most people that i hated surfing with at my break are the ones that leave waves for me to catch today
Great vid Kale! This is rife in Europe! Moving from Aust to the UK we would see a flurry of beginners who have done their week in a Portugal surfcamp then bought a board and worked up the chain. Good stuff, but these lessons seem to get lost along the way. Unfortunate with the growing numbers. It would be cool to do a video about the paddle-out etiquette. This is the other biggie I see. You line up the wave of the session and right where you want to place a bottom turn.... there's someone paddling out or sitting... and doesn't make effort to move! grrrr.
I don't put myself down as a great surfer, but I surf in CA, and have surfed on the N. Shore, Costa Rica and Bondi beach. Anyway, I would like to see surf shops that rent surfboards take about 15 minutes and go over some of the surf etiquette tips mentioned in this video. So many people on foamies don't even understand dropping in, snaking, going out in waves beyond their ability. After 20 yrs. watching this, it's not the beginner so much as the shop owner who rents without explaining some of these basics. my two cents.
Free for all is pretty ok , you ve got to accept getting out positioned , out paddled , by better surfers and guys in better physical condition. Surfing is hard , and a sport that you practice solo , There is no disrespect or snaking if the guy comes back to the pic and out position you , while you’re just chilling laying on your board “waiting for the wave to come” Don’t be lazy and learn to get and earn the priority You nailed the Dropping !✌🏻
I find snaking and drop ins becomes a huge problem when there are a lot of inexperienced surfers in the water, and it's the more experienced surfers doing it. It happens because a good surfer sees somebody on a foamy missing five waves in a row, so they stop considering that person's priority. By and by, they lose track of the better surfers too and start assuming everyone's a kook and dropping in left and right.
"Locals" logic: You and your kids come to the skatepark near my house, you all must sit to the side until my kids and I are done, and before we go some other people that live close deserve priority now, so you and your kids can sit to the side until they're done. You can have a couple of rides if you're lucky but if you don't let us go before you we will wait for you in the carpark.
From what I've heard about surfing, it kinda seems like that sometimes. Fuck that local vibe shit. It's just bullshit and it's just water. Waves come and go all the time and from what I've seen, most people just sit out there all day anyway, till they decide to take their perfect wave whether it really is or not and they usually don't do shit with the wave they've waited so long for anyway while they just float over other waves to avoid taking them, and they are the waves that are equally as good as the ones they sit in the water waiting an hour for. It's just surfing...not a once in a lifetime thing that will never happen again and definately not something to get that worked up about unless it's something that's gonna cause another person to get hurt in the water.
So you'd go to the MCG on Grand final day with your kids for a bit of kick-to-kick on the field and then wonder why security is escorting you out and scream "not fair!!"?? If you don't know what's happening at a beach you only visit, and don't spend time caring for it, putting up fences for the pluvers, picking up rubbish and plastic, mending the paths, waiting for that day, you should show some respect for those who do and stop trying to figure out why everyone is so mad at you and calling you a blow-in.
This is excellent!! I think you should mention that forms who are locals get priority too. But thanks for this video!! ❤ as a 14 year old living in Hawaii, I wait for my chance to be at the front of the line, just for a long-boarder or short-boarder to paddle from a wave they caught right in front of me.
Thanks for this haha! I started surfing daily 3 weeks ago, and had 3 people snap at me me in the last 2 days about dropping in on their waves (one was the dad of a daughter whose wave I dropped in on). Came on to RUclips to learn how not to drop in on people and see this as the first recommended video. This was meant to be 😂
why are you surfing around other people? go somewhere where there isnt a crowd. you will get more waves, and you wont be a danger to anyone but yourself.
@@NadirOnTheGo just be patient and persistent, one day you will show up and it will all come together... sounds like a mad house but as your sill improves, it gets less chaotic
haha .. coffee .. in Miami you have Cuban cafeterias that serve shots of espresso to walk up customers .. often a window in a restaurant at which customers congregate outside ... much the same principles apply to a surprising degree .. the locals that frequent the place; the subtle dynamic of making your presence known to those around you and the server and where you are in the line ( without there being a line) such as positioning, body language, eye contact and a smile here and there; knowing who the big boys (and girls) are and an underlying notion of fairness and order. The lady behind the counter serving the shots is the wave. Of course, violations occur and many are uncomfortable navigating it ...but it works very well to a surprising degree.
definitely got the rose coloured glasses on for this video. On most Gold Coast points and sought after locations , there are usually more surfers than there are waves, and the "snakes" are better surfers because they "snake". On extremely crowded days with brilliant surf , its pretty common for localism to dominate through the adoption/formation of packs. locals in packs declaring a right to "Snake" and socially exclude non locals amid vocal declarations of needing "Peabo" to get rid of the pests ..... there is nothing more ridiculous/humorous than watching 2 guys trying to punch each other whilst sitting on boards "out the back".... great videos Kale, have reinspired me to get back in the water (and investigate the wave pools) after many years of sitting on the sidelines
I spent a week surfing this year and it was a tourist beach that just happens to have surf. Even tho I’m a bad surfer and not chasing peaks, just trying to catch them as they break, i try to follow etiquette, like if i see I’m in the way of someone further out than me ill move so they have a clear line. I didnt notice an algorithm or rule but it was just give everyone space.
Hello, just to say thanks for your videos, I'm fairly new to surfing, and I am trying to get to grips with it, not just how to surf, but the culture, and the frustrations, from basically not understanding. This has been really helpful. hehe, the amount of times though, I've tried to stay out of more experienced surfers ways, and really found a good little safe spot for me, and really paddled hard and though about it, and I've seen someone just checking me out, following me, and starting to make small talk so I loos concentration so they get my wave, or park up right in front of me..haha..to start with I used to think, arrrghh can't you see just how hard I've worked for that, have some grace!! be cool, I'd be cheering you on, now I think I am starting to see this is part of it all, a frustrating part, but a part none the less. I just get really safety conscious though and worry nasty accidents could happen if you are trying to be on top of someone else or trying to distract them, so it doesnt feel that cool. I sort of laugh now, but it did get my goat to start with. haha. x
that example in the beginning we call “back paddling” in the States...which is a form of snaking where someone who doesn’t have priority (meaning they either just caught a set wave or haven’t been waiting in your spot/peak of the lineup as long as you have). they’ll sit inside of you, then when the set comes paddle outside of you past the peak, just a bit, only to paddle all the way back and essentially take off right where you were sitting. Back paddling would be like sitting at a traffic light, pulling out onto the shoulder like 3 spots behind the stop line, then pull up to the front of the line of traffic right before the light changes. Just snaking someone is dropping in on them down the line when they’ve taken off from the peak. Kooks usually drop in on the shoulder on a more experienced surfer in some type of “hey, look at me surf and wave my arms while I stick out my ass not letting you get a turn in without us clanking boards bc mines a soft top and I dont know about dings, so if I pressure ding ur board by the rails and change the way it surfs basically ruining your board costing you $300-500 then you’ll know I surf and am cool” ...right???!?!! ...wrong there kooky snake-O 🤦🏻
Hello Kales, priority is really well explained here. I've been surfing for 10+ years now and as you said I see myself as a kind person (I respect the priority, I don't snake or drop in) but I can't really agree on what you say at 7:08. It's the guy on the outside that must be aware of the people on the inside. I don't want to spend my time yelling at people when I have priority because they can't or they don't want to check if someone is on the wave. Imagine that on the road, the person on the road has the priority and must honk at the persons who are waiting at the stop, that would be crazy :) It's a great video btw
Totally agree and a great point since this is supposed to be a video to teach etiquette. 1) You are responsible for making sure you aren't dropping on someone 2) You are responsible from getting the hell out of the way of someone trying to ride a wave and if you can't diving under when paddling out 3) You are always responsible for your board and have to make sure it doesn't ever hit someone.
Worse is the snake that doesn't realize they are the snake but blames you. for instance, I was sitting out and watched a set come in, a lady surfer caught the wave and I watched her take the wave all the way to the sand. then on her way back out, another set came through, since it was a beach break, it came in on the other side of me, opposite of where she started on her last wave. I paddled toward the wave, this was a soft wave and rather than push all the way in to make certain I had the inside of where I knew she would be, I figured she would know that her turning around and taking the inside was snaking. The fact that she had the previous wave was enough evidence. I caught the wave but I noticed her turn on my inside, and although she started to stand up, she backed off after she saw that I already had it. when I made it back out, she said to me, "I guess you owe me one". I asked her why, her response was that I snaked her. The only time this is considered snaking is if it were an 1980's surf competition, where the person on the inside has the right of way, always. But when it's not a 1980s competition, the etiquette is courtesy. You take turns. I think the issue is that people are taught incorrectly about etiquette. They think having the inside is the only rule. So, the rest of that day, I made sure I was inside of all her waves, every single set that came in for 2 hours. haha Hope she got the point.
@@KalesBroccoli I did, or at least I tried. She was a decent surfer too. The best part is, she started telling everyone out there how I had snaked her. Too bad for her that I knew most of them and they all sort of know I am not a wave hog, even if the waves come straight to me, I usually let others have it. After she got done explaining it to them, they would paddle over and say, "hey Thom, whats up, what she talking about". haha
i had no idea about snaking the line or that there even was a line about 2 weeks ago starting surfing and i feel horrid now because i remember just paddeling out and catching anything i could and NOBODY told me off i wish someone that day came up to me and explained this stuff
The other thing that needs to be mentioned kale is people taking off not looking all around them and they end up running into someone.or they know you are there but just take the risk on a critical section anyway. Many times I really want to take off but I pull back because others safety is more important to me.
Do I understand etiquette correctly: peak creates 2 sides, lh, rh. Closest to the peak has priority, but that means 2ppl can have priority. I'm getting fairly irritated by Surfers paddling on the one side, surfing across the peak, and essentially forcing others off the wave. Sups and longboards do this a lot. I see this as bad etiquette - they should respect two breaks here. Am I misunderstanding, is there only 1 priority per wave?
I was so used to skiing and snowboarding where everybody shares the slope and you ride side by side. So I assumed surfing was the same. I did a “party wave” with a total stranger and he wasn’t happy. It didn’t make sense to me. But how I get it. Let them take a wave and enjoy it. Wait for the next. Butttttt you can totally share waves. So talk to the lineup and ask which direction they go and see if you can share.
Man you made me panic for a minute with the snaking, as I would usually paddle to the line up without positioning at the end of the queue but then I realised you were talking about a defined peak and I usually surf beach breaks with no defined peaks where I go out back, sit there for a bit and wait to see who is catching what before including myself in !! Haha I'm doing just fine ! Thanks for this video, very useful !
Still should apply in random peaks, you can't just paddle back out and 'get lucky' four hundred times at the expense of other surfers. But take it on a car by case basis :) Be kind
At my main surf spot, it’s a reef pass with different peaks so the ones who get the most waves are the ones who paddle past everyone to the top peak that is behind the reef, that’s also where the most fearless(me) surfers go. So the snake one both dose and doesn’t apply at that spot.
I have to disagree with a comment you made regarding letting locals or professionals "snake you". I agree that I would be completely amazed if Kelly Slater randomly showed up and started surfing, however this whole "locals only" culture is what really frustrates me. I'm from Canada but live in Spain and we have some pretty nice waves. As a beginner that has recently moved to the beach, I'm not a "local" anywhere. With this whole "locals only" philosophy, technically, I wouldn't be able to surf anywhere... When I think about it, "locals" only want good surfers from the area to surf there, but at one point in their lives they had to learn how to surf. I 100% agree with surf etiquette but the sea doesn't belong to anyone, neither does a beach or a break...Anyways, thanks for another great video! :)
As a beginner who did not grow up near the ocean it's hard to see and understand the etiquette, we beginners are so absorbed in our progress that there is no point in getting mad at us for something that we dont intentionally do. If i drop in it's not because i wanna be a jerk, it because I dont know the line up. Advanced surfers, be patient with us and explain the line up in a civil way. Definately a helpful video!
It would be great if you could do a more beginner version of this. I'm pretty new to surfing and really want to do it right, not be a jerk or get in anyone's way etc. I've read the blogs, watched the videos, think I understand the rules in theory... but in practice it's hard, when you're new there's so much to think about on every single wave, I don't always trust myself to judge correctly where the peak is or which way the wave is breaking. I assume it's just a question of experience, but how do you get that experience without pissing people off in the meantime?
Try to choose surfing in a spot where the wave corresponds to your ability and others in the lineup are of similar level to you, and ideally where you are in the upper half.
Re drop ins. Does this apply on very crowded beaches like Bondi and Maroubra middle of Saturday? There are like 7-10 people going for a single wave.. Also mostly everyone gets carried away with the current side ways which makes the line messy...
I have the perfect Surfline cam footage of a textbook snake someone pulled on me today. I was waiting at the peak for the set to come in and had been there for a while. A guy comes paddling over after just catching a wave at another peak. Paddles over and under me and while shoulder to shoulder with me snakes the inside of the wave. Wish I could send you it
READ THIS ITS WORTH IT. Yesterday I was surfing Salt Creek in OC and two waves in a row the same grom ,who I have to admit was shredding the waves, dropped in on me. Usually I don’t care but on the second time I had to ditch very awkwardly and I snapped the nose off my new board I finally saved up enough money for on my birthday. So please whoever reads this, don’t snake waves it’s never a good thing.
where im from it is sometimes organized but theres so much people that sometimes we lose track and for some of the legends of the break they can get whatever wave they want also kids are to the side but no one is stoping you from going main break just dont mess up if you get a good one
What about when groms with sponsors paddle to your inside after just catching a set wave and then take the next wave. Then does that over and over again, is snaking permissible then? Or is it still wrong? Or what about when they drop in on you? Regardless if they were to surf the wave better or not. Surfing isn’t all about who can rip the hardest.
First of all thanks for the video and for everything else you do for a surf community! I have a related question. I am usually surfing at Diamond Head at Oahu - good beach for beginners and intermediate surfers. I would say this beach is a random peaked (or I am just still too bad to predict the ocean) so that's why I usually change spots from one group of people to another (as many other surfers do), and when I paddle to a new group - this group doesn't look like a line. It's more like normal distribution of surfers in a small area. As you explained in the video - this is one of the exceptions where snaking doesn't work (people everywhere around me, obviously I "snaked" some one). But what are the rules of such spots (especially when it is crowded)? The problem is that when the set is coming - always at least one person who is a little bit deeper in the ocean starts paddling. And even if I closer to a pick I am trying to give him a way. And really often it appears that this person was too deep for that wave or paddled not enough, so this wave keeps unridden. What are your suggestion of how to behave in such scenarios? Should I still paddle if I see that I closer to the pick (if I just paddled to this group and behave like this - it feels a little bit offense), or is this just a situation when there are not a lot to do because of the crowd?
I surf diamond head alot and there's definitely alot of beginners( I'm no ripper by any means). If you look there's a few general areas where the peak rolls in but it's not super set. I always give preference to the uncles I recognize that have been there for years. I'll watch everyone to see if they are making the wave etc. I never drop in (on purpose anyway) and if you actually do just pull off. D head is on the softer side IMO so you have to be more inside than it looks. After I watch and if the guy isn't really making it I'll paddle (giving him space) and if he falls or doesn't get on the wave I'll snag it. If he gets it I'll back off. That's been the courtesy out there in general. I like to give waves too because it's hard. Maybe I'll see you out there🤙🏽
I surf a beginner sandy beach and although there's no line up I still give up some good waves for others who missed the last one and expect same in return. No issues at all other than parents with young kids swimming right behind me in my paddling/pop up space.
Kales Broccoli My local is SA is free for all, the only standing rule is not dropping in. Usually between 6 and 20 guys, but various peaks. Everyone snakes, etc.
Another good vlog Kales! Let's hope all the "beginners" lol watch this and learn! My local brake is Huntington Beach Pier, Surf City. When people try to burn someone here we send them up the beach EVERY time. No respect NO WAVES for that person. It makes everything calmer and less stressful. Surfing is our escape whether your a beginner or pro surfer we all want that feeling surfing gives us. Follow along those that don't. Cheers and thanks mate 🤙😁 G⭐
Ugh... 'B' peak (lesser quality) with no one else or just friends OR the 'A' peak (premier peak) with the crowds. 'B' every time. And if I get snaked more than once, I say nothing and sit on top of them and make sure they get no more waves. I get a perverse enjoyment out of that. Eventually they go in and now everyone gets waves.
Had a guy in the surf up constantly paddling to the inside. I was waiting patiently but after the fourth time he did this I took off on the wave and dropped in on him. He got aggressive saying he was catching his quota of waves. But what annoyed me most was him saying he was just wanting to bring good vibes to the lineup and then saying he had no problem taking it to the beach.
Yeah great reminder! Heard it can get a bit difficult to follow etiquette in a place like Malibu when there's a ton of people there and it can be acceptable to share a wave.
i was watching some surf videos and i started to wonder a question on etiquette. when u get dumped mid wave, and turn to paddle out, u are stuck with 2 options, paddling through white water or inevitably converging with another guy riding a wave that you are paddling through. being the nice guy that i am, i usually just take the pain and go at the white water. BUT i notice a lot of guys just charge the wave, duck and hope for the best, and i think most surfers have enough control riding a wave to avoid an obstacle, unless they are pitted. anyway, im kind of a loner, so i just wonder what the rest of the surf community thinks about this.
I'm totally in your camp. Do the same thing every time(paddle for the whitewater) and always apologise if I end up accidentally/inadvertently in someone's way at any point! I'm also kind of a loner so can relate. But yeah most people, especially learners have no idea about this. It never ceases to amaze me how on a whole deserted beach, one kook with no idea is right in your line on every wave you surf! Often standing, wandering slowly back out, usually straight through a section you wanna hit/float/whatever, doesn't even flinch to move or get out of your way when they see you flying down the line towards them. And somehow manage to be in your way at some point on every single wave you get! Seriously, just move anywhere else! How do they not realise they're putting themselves in danger and just being a general nuisance? Full mindfu#%😂
Thanks for this!! I feel like so many people just snake anyway. I ride a longboard and they think that is an invitation to snake, even though I am extremely courteous and never personally snake (or sit way outside to get a longboard advantage)?
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Can you talk about etiquette in high density line ups
Same thing just harder to navigate
Not Covid safe.😁
Well your coffee will be gone before everyone has a sip. 😂😂
Where do u surf because it looks like qu land will not be open for a while
When I started surfing the first thing I did was give a greeting to local guys in the water I knew were good. I'd usually make a joke about me just starting and how I suck. They'd be cool and answer questions or tell me tips to help me. I realized quickly noone cared that I wasn't any good because I was respectful in the water. They'd tell me "get that one "picking out beginner waves for me and scream to me instructions. As weeks went on I became part of the local group and ended up hanging out with them for years. I never became a good surfer but loved it and loved the culture and friends I made. Being honest and respectful can go a long ways in the water and in life.
Awesome advice 🙌🏽🙌🏽
Sick comment Southie👍. I don't live near the surf so im not local anywhere. And I generally surf pretty average waves. Having said that I'm also usually one of the better surfers in the lineups I surf. And surf them a lot more than most "locals". I'm just always respectful, friendly and try to find a spot where there isn't too much competition for waves. I'll always be the guy surfing an average bank with minimal crowd rather than surfing the best peak with a heavy crowd. Used to live on the Gold Coast. Wouldn't be able to handle the crowds anymore. Too hectic.
That has to be what it’s all about! Thanks for sharing
Yeah, if you're a pleasant and nice person to surf with people care a lot less about how good you are.
Localized waves usually means it has a community of guys who work together and share resources. Compare that to lineups like Snapper or Rincon where everyone outright competes with one another. It's a completely different vibe, and I actually really like it.
If you don't like localism, I'd bet you're going to like what replaces it even less. With localism you only have a minority of guys at the top being aggressive wave hogs. Without localism everyone is an aggressive wave hog. Without localism you're going to have to compete a lot harder for the scraps.
yeah. Most people arent going to get that bent out of shape if you accidentally do something wrong. Its when beginners act like they know better than the locals that you run into issues
As someone just getting back into surfing I find the better surfers are the least courteous in the water, especially good groms. They seem to think they deserve more waves cause they will "get more out of the wave" than a less experienced surfer
Sometimes what looks like greed is just great line up strategy. Other times, it can be just an over-frothing grommet.
Absolutely right. The right to a wave is decided by position, not whether you think you surf better.
@@Jesterian This isn't how most world class waves work though. Or even good waves in areas with a lot of surfers. If I step off the plane in Honolulu and paddle out on a 6-8ft sunny day in December and a set comes my position doesn't mean shit. I'm getting burned. And there are just not enough waves for everyone to get in line and wait their turn. Instead your relationships and how good you are determines if it's your wave or not.
Pipe is on the extreme end of the spectrum but this is how etiquette plays out at most advanced waves. There are just too many surfers and not enough waves. If a guy takes off on an overhead barreling wave and does the exact same thing he would do on a waist high burger a very good and very valuable resource is getting wasted.
If you constantly miss catching waves then you get less priority or right-of-way to get others.
@@alohajason If I shoot, I don't miss
Being respectful goes for paddle boards and longboards too.
Don't sit outside and catch EVERY wave just because you can start riding from a mile out at sea.
Share with the short boarders too.
FACTS!!! Paddle boarders make me SO mad when they do that.
- Shortboarder
I get complaints from local surfers about hogging the waves and I am on a bodyboard. Sorry, if you are constantly going for a shoulder I don't care how local you are. You need to make an effort.
? I live in Florida and the waves don't get that big we honestly Wait for that 5-6 for a while but what would you consider a long board? Asking for knowledge not disrespect.
not when the short boarders are on the shoulder no where near the peak. fuck em, you can wait for the shoulders once im done
Hi Kale, shortboarder of 4 years here who loves your videos! Before shortboarding I spent most of my teens SUP surfing so I'd like to add one more piece of etiquette.
If I'm SUP surfing, after catching a wave I'll paddle back out to the shoulder of the lineup and then sit down and wait for a few waves to come through. This is a statement of intent of saying "I'm not standing, therefore I won't paddle for the next few waves". From the surfers experience it also feels less like someone is going to fall on top of you from just standing around. Finally, when I do stand back up it makes clear which wave I'm about to paddle for and gives everyone plenty of warning! 👍
I've been surfing for 35 years and I can honestly say I can count on my right hand the number of times I've been in the line up that proceeded in a logical manner. Even on point breaks with solid swell. Just because you think it's your turn or you have "priority" doesn't mean you do. Surfing with buddies different deal, everyones pretty cool and no drop ins. Combat surf pretty well rules.
100%
It always comes down to good observation, when I see someone paddle over I always say hello and break the ice with them, most people go surfing to leave the rules elsewhere, we never own a wave if a break is to busy il find somewhere else,. The sea is a big place, respect everyone and if someone drops in or bails out in front of me I help them out with a bit of guidance to help keep them safe without putting them off,. And iv never walked away from a surf session feeling frustrated at someone else or what would be the point ' beginner's appreciate a bit of helpful guidance too' and if it's a party wave just go straight everyone. People who take themselves too seriously ruin their own fun
Thank you for that comment 🤙
I find that at my local breaks it is a complete free for all almost all the time
That how it is for me too
Not true. You need to study what's happening. Free for all is were every wave is a party wave. If you keep on missing out it's your problem, not understanding the strategy for the situation.
It's not a queue at the coffee shop. Sorry Kale, no disrespect.
Especially if it's a beach break with multiple peaks
it's ok to snake as long as you scream "party wave"
@@guillaumebrizolier8777
Like I can steal your car if I invite you along.
Where I surf, everybody snakes. I used to try to act like we were in a line but eventually had to give up because I constantly found myself at the back of the "lineup"
Same here, I’d wait then eventually paddle for a wave and have like 5 kids paddle on top of me. Eventually i just got tired and would take any wave I could get
I've gotta find myself a secret spot 😅
Mandatory viewing
Hey Kale - such a great video ! Been surfing for 20+ years and you literally take words out of my mouth! Seen so many people getting angry or frustrated at each other because of lack of etiquette / knowledge of these rules... Maybe something worth adding is the basic gentleman rule - regardless of where a surfer is positioned compared to you, if you're just back from taking a wave and he / she's been waiting, just let him / her go! And also, maybe a call for surf instructors to teach these rules to beginners, a lot of them don't!
🙌🏽
Yep! That one should definitely be added to the list.
100%! So frustrating when surfers have only just finished on a wave, then grab the next available as they paddle out!
Matt McEwan I always do that but where I surf there is only one or two other persons
good surfers dont get frustrated. the frustration comes from those that cant get good waves, so they end up dropping in in front of someone that had better positioning than them.
Videos like this should be mandatory for beginners. My local break is a nightmare for beginners snaking and dropping in, simply as they have no idea of why they shouldn't do it.
At 2:06 you said "to be snaked by a beginner". In my experience, "dropping in" is typical of beginners, but sneaking is way more typical of medium to advanced surfers. Sneaking requires anticipation reading the wave and often paddling harder than the sneaked surfer. I've seen it way more often done by stronger locals marking "their" territory than by beginners.
Not always.
In California this is almost always the case.
Agreed, my opinion is to be in priority you need to be deepest but obviously not so deep you'll get caught behind. If you're sitting there and not the deepest but in your own head think you have priority, what makes this so? Have you been waiting the longest? How is anyone else meant to know this? It's not like we can keep track of how long it's been since each surfer has caught one. My opinion is that the surfer with the best positioning is in priority, any other way seems like a recipe for miss understandings. Having said this I feel like snaking is something you recognise when you see it, so maybe this situation was such a case, personally i'd let them have it because paddling in on someone whose closer to the pocket just don't feel right to me.
Agree 100%
i'm a beginner and I get snaked constantly in socal at crowded spots
I'd say it's worth emphasising how blissful it is to surf a break with a proper line up and people sticking to these rules. It doesn't happen often but it's so nice when it does. It's more relaxed and you can even chat a bit when you're in the back of the line😉
100%!! Such a pleasure when you know everybody is taking turns.
Oh if only this was the way every surf we have!
I always get worried about taking someone’s wave when I go out but then I remember I only surf beginner breaks and it’s party wave central😂
this should be required viewing for every single person that surfs or is learning to surf
That feeling when everyone is waiting their turn and then the local uncle on a SUP attempts to keep lapping the waves and never looks, just goes.
SUPs allowed a lot of people who never surged into the line up who never were groomed in the etiquette.
Then there are the guys who know the rules but assume because they’re always further outside, the rotation doesn’t apply to them.
Cannot agree with this enough. A lot of older LB souls out there know the rules but came from a day when you got told off when you didn't belong (or worse), I can share a lineup with them any day of the week and we all get a good wave count. It's newer generations (of surfers, i.e. including people who picked it up later in life), new technology and over-commercialization of the sport that is making the goons more and more prevalent out there and it is a source of never-ending frustration.
@@matthewfrench7494 or 55 yo locals on SUPs lapping every ecent ride, as the comment said. Its all good and well talking about respect but my new rule is to drop on an sup any day. Unless they stop hogging the wave. Dont care if their older or live closer. Fuck em.
This video should be watched by every aspiring surfer, and some surfers who should know better! People seem to grasp the drop-in rule and happily paddle to your inside, snake and then get angry if you decide to take your wave. I've tried to calmly explain in the past but the default position is pure righteous fury of the snake... You didn't go into the miss your wave rule - this is a big one for me. The number of times someone will paddle for and miss a wave, and then go for the next one just blows my mind...
Yeah I didn't have time today but have covered in other videos. I will endeavour to cover in the future.
It just makes a loose loose situation. There is jockeying for position and there is just clear snaking; and I agree when you were already in the best position and someone goes deeper inside; its still your wave; but then its just the law of the jungle.
its obviously not your wave if they were able to drop in on the peak, and you were out on the shoulder. learn to drop in late, in the peak, and the problem will go away. just because you paddle for a wave, doesnt make that wave "yours" your sense of entitlement is off the chart. its not your wave until you have the skill to drop in at the peak and there is no one behind you.
I've grown up at the north shore of Oahu and the way you described snaking was bizarre to me because when I'm in the water whoever is deepest on the lineup has priority no matter how long they've been there with a few exceptions. also the way you described dropping in is the exact way we picture snaking the wave.
thank you for the video though and i love the be respectful to locals tip, the locals in my home breaks beat up people that don't know the rules
On the North Shore, so many out of town wanna be heroes come to prove themselves that any the locals create their own "line up". If you grew up there you know that the experienced surfers out there could make it so you never got a wave if they wanted to. It is more likely that they allow you to get a few while making sure non-locals don't get in the way. Sure, the best of the best sit the deepest get the waves they want. But they also let some waves go so the rest of the locals get theirs too. But if you are new to it, you're lucky to get one or two in an hour on a good day.
I would call north shore as a passive aggressive positioning battle especially on non life threatening days - where everybody is friendly but you have to constantly battle for positioning.
I thought the same thing. Like if a beginner is not sitting on the top of the peak, I’m not going to sit there and wait for you to ruin where you should be taking off on the wave. Paddle as close to the true Peak of the wave is without jamming too close to someone. If they’re not as dee as they should be you paddle around them. Just don’t do it right when a wave is coming and paddle in front of someone and shoulder hop. I’d say most of the time it’s a case by case basis
@@henrywilson6421 thats the perfect way to explain it. I'm glad to be reassured that I'm not just being rude in the line up
Used to surf in Reunion Island. Same stuff. Whoever sit the deepest gets the wave. Of course it resulted in very experienced surfers and longboarders getting ~80% of the waves.
Too many people need to hear this! Thank you Mr. Broccoli!!!
Surfrider foundation has put up "surfing rules" placards at some too breaks. Rincon has one displayed prominently at the top of the path to the beach.
You did a great job articulating localism....thx for that. But I still think it’s such a strange concept....maybe because I started surfing after my 30’s...? I live literally across the road from my break and have been surfing every week for years....every time I see somebody out my instinct is to welcome them and behave like they are at my house...like “here’s a chair and a drink”....maybe I’m wrong...
It’s a selfish sport
The chairs and the drinks move in and out of the house depending on the conditions, they’re elusive, some are more comfy and better tasting than the others, now al of a sudden nobody is sharing haha
I never met any surfers like you in Florida but keep doing that man hopefully it’ll catch on every where. One love ✌️
@@surfandprotect9098 I definitely will, and that's the mindset I've been sharing with my 9-year-old son who's now getting into surfing. Peace! ✌🏼
The way I see it, a localized wave has an organic community attached to it. Localized lineups are much more communal and collaborative than waves with comparable quality. The guys have surfed together for years, so they treat each other differently than the lineup does at a place like Snapper or Rincon. The biggest mistake a lot of people make is paddling out at a localized lineup and competing hard for waves, which threatens the collaborative and communal vibe. This will piss people off.
Localism used to place a lot of importance about where you live, but with real estate prices and the modern job market it's changed. Now it's pretty much about your relationships with other guys in the water.
On the east coast of the US, you'll see more snakes than surfers. I've been surfing my local break for seven years and they don't even consider me a local because I live 20 min away, even though I surf every month of the year including in the snow. Some people have absolutely no respect.
Can confirm. I live on the east coast and my closest spot is an hour away. People snake as if it's going out of style.
Triple agreeance here. NJ surfer. It's tough but gotta respectfully stand up for myself as well. What's even worse is when kids literally paddle in front of you because they think they're good enough to do so, not even a local thing. Gets gross
Good ol rockaway in the summer 😂😂😂
100% confirm. Obx local here, groms constantly dropping in on you. Collisions galore. Beginners and their foamies on the inside getting in everybody’s way. Older dudes with longboards will constantly cut you off even if they’ve surfed the past 5 waves in a row. Surf schools and their teachers cutting people off left and right. No respect, especially from the tourist surfers
@@barrel1808 That's when it's good to have a slightly unhinged Alpha local who keeps the groms and blowins in check.
You are so polite when you talk about the groups. We all know who they are :P. One of the worst etiquettes for me is when you are paddling back and the guy in front of you is bailing out of his board instead of duck-diving. That's so inconsiderate and dangerous.
Yeah im always super uncomfortable when im paddling out and there is someone in front of me i tend to avoid it whenever i can. Need to really improve on my duckdives tho i still ditch my Board way too often
Bailing is a kook move. Hang on to your damn board. Especially with anyone around you.
Groove Duude only kooks call others kooks🤣
One of the most dangerous things to do is paddle behind someone. This is surfing 101. You get hit its your fault. Take responsibility for where YOU are and you wont have to worry about what other people are doing.
back in the day if someone did that they would get sent in. go surf somewhere thats not around other people.
And the ones who think they can paddle back to the exact spot at the peak and not give the next person a wave because he is “in position “.
Many lineups stay in the same order of people, but the well controlled group will keep it fair and take turns no matter who is the closest to the peak. It’s rare tho.
Took me a long time to realize snaking was a no-no while surfing at North Steyne/Queensy and Freshwater. Drop in rule applies but no one gives a shit how long you've been waiting or how many people you've just paddled up the inside of. Very frustrating.
Whats irritating as well is when you have people paddling up the take off zone and not even attempting to get out the way for you...happened to me a lot in France.
run their ass over.
I started surfing in the early 70s when you learned the hard way, I live next to trestles and I have to say I’ve never seen people “taking turns” but surprisingly the best and most local out there pretty cool about not taking all the waves.
Man, times have changed? I’m 47 and surfed in my teens and it was a free for all, the best surfers got all the waves. I’m glad it’s changed because I just retired and bought 2 surfboards to learn to surf again. These videos and ones like it have helped me choose boards!
It's been a year..Are you still surfing? 48 here. Planning on getting back to the beach soon to see if I can still do it. I still know how, but just not sure how my body will hold up haha.. peace!
@@ZenZone_Soundscapes i will be in the warmer months (Australia) i need to get fitter though!
@@steyer-crmg same here. was 240 pounds, now down to 207. going to try and lose about 25 more before I get out in the water. haha..best of luck to you!
The eye to eye contact before snaking happens is the most infuriating moment ever!.lol
Paddling out in front of the surfer standing is a huge one also!
Good stuff - im getting old now and though it was enough to think of etiquette 30 years ago when the world seemed crowded yet by todays standards seem like a black and white movie. I think beginners should not be afraid to say if a takeoff seems steep or the set too big for them to call off and let someone ready to take advantage of the ocean giving a moment . Sometimes we are giving respect and need to still track the wave as silence leads to an unnecessary situation. If you do not go and take charge - really decent etiquette based surfers will drop every time. Its just life. Learn and grow . Apologies if this seems a rant - I think beginners should be aggressive as it is the best thing they will ever do with their time.
Boiling it down - look people in the eye and encourage them to go - when you go go - if not let it be open to someone who feels it.
Thanks
I was surfing at Snapper Rocks on a very small day with a long wait between sets. There were many surfers out most were fairly average or beginners. There were 2 surfers who were much better than everyone else and would always get the best waves of the set and immediately paddle back to the peak (front of the line). Next set that comes through they would get the best waves again, sometimes there were only 2 waves in the set.
I think beginners cop it and get called out for bad etiquette but I also think experienced surfers knowingly break the rules especially when there is a short supply of waves and they know they will be in for a big wait if they follow the rules.
On this day, most other surfers were not good enough to take off right at the peak and were looking for more of a shoulder take off. But because these two better surfers were taking off at the peak we couldn’t drop in on them even though it was obvious it was not their turn. What do you do in this situation?
Surf beachbreaks.
Get yourself in a good position and try for some. Would have to be a bit assertive but still chill about it
Get better and fitter
surf somewhere else dude. etiquettes nice when it happens but this video is largely not a reflection of any kind of reality. You get good at surfing by getting more waves, so what youll find is the best surfers are the greediest. I might be wrong about how it was back in the day when everyone knew each other out of the surf and had to deal with each other out in the community, but these days when no one knows whos who its all a load of shit, particularly at busy east coast points. you can try your quiet word but if theres twenty other blokes lining up to do the exact same thing, its obviously not happening. if you dont start young and learn to take off deep and steep, then your better off getting away from the crowd, and before anything else the lack of crowd is what you should look for when your checking the surf. youd be suprised what people are ignoring even a couple of hundred yards away when they're squabbling at the top of the line. finding those spots and developing that knowledge is what you should do.
Great video very tricky topic! There's so many different kinds of annoying surfers: The clueless beginner - really annoying but excusable, 2 - The piss taking grumpy local - best steered clear of, 3 - The shredding over friendly ripper - usually super chatty and nice then proceeds to snake you, 4 - the dangerous over enthusiastic euro holiday surfer - likelyhood of an out of control hypto crypto to the face is high and drop ins guarenteed, but I'd still rather deal with all that than sit in line at a wave pool (maybe apart from the texas one that looks rad).
haha yes nice summary
Extra Credit - the grom just inside of you blocking your take off and then taking your wave
Snaking has a wide spectrum beginners do it without knowing it but also experienced surfers love to do it, especially if they are locals haha but the worst are the longboards and sup (sometimes I wish I had a longboard secretly)!!
Life’s too short to ride longboards
Fine in theory, haven't seen it in practice since me and my mates were surfing in the late sixties, early seventies and then it only worked because their were only 4 of us who surfed in the town.
Good one. I never drop in (on purpose) but it annoys me when you know a guy doesn't surf the spot and does. I'm down with local priority as long as they don't take everything😁
Love this! My dad always taught me these rules and said it’s the law. Growing up in Hawai’i I’ve seen uncles get super nutz. Not as bad nowadays but they used to aim for you with tank long boards for fun 😂. This guide woulda been so different 15 years ago.
Wish more people would watch this.
Jockeying for the inside position is still snaking. I don’t care if you’re inside of me after I waited 10 minutes for that wave and you paddled inside of me just as the wave comes.
“Jockeying” is for surf contests-not free surfing
100% on point. Respect the etiquette and know you place in the pecking at a spot that’s not your local then you’re at the bottom below every grom. You can gradually earn a place as the session goes on and you respect everyone in the water. No patience for poor etiquette.
snaking is a tough one, i'm not a great surfer coming from the UK but having lived in Australia for 2 years surfing Noosa and the sunshine coast you find yourself in crowded waves with locals who have surfed their whole life and will snake you at every chance they get. you try to stick to the etiquette, but with surfing being as popular as it is these days i've found that when you follow the rules while few others do then you are giving up your chance at getting waves. it becomes competitive and you have to snake to even get a look in. you'l find a few guys and girls in the group out on that day will out surf everyone and go for everything to so you end up hesitantly paddling for waves someone is on in the hope they don't make a section. and i sometimes found that you'l pull off a wave only to have them pull off seconds later instead of shouting you to go for it.
lets face it, in a ideal world everyone would follow the rules, but it only takes a few that don't to make it near impossible for anyone else to get a wave
The one rule I find people get confused with most is when you paddle and get up early on a wave and then someone gets up on your inside, having seen you already paddling and standing up and tries to call you off the wave
Always an issue. Guy on inside try’s to call you off because he’s on your inside but my view is if you’re legitimately on that wave first, as far as I’m concerned you go. Wedges are the worst for it.
@@Les_Grossman80 Yeah the particular incident I'm thinking of, the guy saw me paddle and stand up first on a set before he'd even turned around. He then started paddling, got up and started screaming on the wave whilst I was racing one or two sections further down the line than him. Whilst sucking in breath in between sentences of his following tantrum, after falling off the wave and waiting for me to paddle back out from close to shore, I told him that he'd seen me not only get up first but paddle for the wave before anyone else, which he said didn't matter at all and that he had right of way. Unfortunately this is a detail that I've never really seen covered in surf etiquette videos, and in my experience there does seem to be a lack of knowledge of how this situation goes, although this rule does vary from wave to wave.
@@markm4074 I assume you are riding a longboard? its pretty stupid for a shortboarder to paddle into a wave behind a longboarder that is ALREADY riding. however, did you both paddle for the wave at the same time? you were already up and riding before he paddled correct? and he fell? it sounds like he is a kook. its a good idea for you to learn to take off right on the peak, you can still get in early, but in this way there is no question, taking off in the peak will improve your skill
@@xisotopex What do you think about this scenario? Rider A is a bodyboarder and sitting on the inside, the set comes in. Rider B is a surfer and both riders paddle for the wave at the same time. Rider B paddles in front of rider A at the last moment as the wave sets up, the top of the peak forms and both riders are lined up the same. Rider A does not back down because he started off on the inside and he doesn't need to stand up to be riding the wave. Rider B stands up at the top of the peak and drops in directly on top of rider A who is already on the on the face of the wave and about to turn. Rider B is pissed off and thinks his wave was stolen because he had the top of the peak. Rider A doesn't like backpaddlers despite the danger of the situation.
@@apolopena yeah backpaddlers suck, but thats the way it goes. whoever is on the inside has priority. my recommendation to rider a is grab b's leash and give him a good dunking. barring that, its the law of the jungle, and if you cant beat em, join em, and give rider b a taste of his own medicine.
As a beginner surfer I am really worried about unintentionally snaking someone, though at the same time I won't put up with other people's bs. I think surfing etiquette is very important to learn from the beginning
Literally and so many more experienced surfers think its fine to cut in cause the just see anyone less skilled as kooks smh
you wont have that problem if you dont surf in a crowd. surf away from people. not right in the pack.
@@ageofsempires2968 Yes, this is how most good to world class waves work. If you want to surf the best waves possible you're going to have to deal with some BS no matter what. If you don't like better surfers using their ability to get more of the best waves, you should surf waves that are not as popular with advanced surfers.
wish some of the people in the water today had seen this video before they paddled out
yep you have surfed second point malibu so you really get an idea of snaking there. we call it the inside game. someone backdoor paddling you when they sat beside you after they caught their wave and racing to the next wave even though it should be your turn. paddle take the inside and 95% of the time they are too deep to even make the section resulting in a shit drop in with no one getting the wave in the end. the problem is 90% of surfers can't tell where a good section is because they dont take the time to actually figure out how the waves break. they just see a wave and start paddling with no regard for how the wave is forming.
i always even if i have the inside and have been waiting will look at the wave judge who is in the better position to get the best ride and if someone is in a better position i just say "u want to take this" well before the wave is there so they can actually set up and not have a last second drop in. then when they paddle back out i try to explain why when i had the right of way i let them hop on the wave instead of taking the inside and trying to make the section hoping that they get the idea and sometimes it catches on in the line up and you have 10 people kind of loosely talking to each other and everyone ends up getting 2-3X more waves because of it.
The last time people waited to take turns in Malibu on any of the three points was in 1956. I think Australia is like 50 years behind California in overcrowding.
Thanks for a very sensible video. As a keen beginner moving towards intermediate, ive been shouted at in the ocean but didn’t know what i did wrong. Makes it hard to figure it all out with seemingly conflicting rules. Also knocks the wind out of learning. No one wants to be a dick.
thanks for the video, I was a snake myself without even knowing that was a thing, no one ever bothered to explain it and I was angery at people for looking at me in a bad way, now I understand hahaha
Here in Arica, Chile (southamerica), we just respect who is more near to the waves than everyone else, that mean being in the bottom, rigtj where waves come, and we dont get in the wave of the guy who is near to the foam and the wall (we call this: be near to the "cacho")
I believe most people that snake arent even aware that there even exists an etiquette to surfing. I dont know about where you all surf and how folks are, but what i always try to do in order to avoid it is to make acquaintances with the usual snakers for they are usually always the same, that way they start to see you more as a friend than a competition. Most people that i hated surfing with at my break are the ones that leave waves for me to catch today
0:30 without them, chaos would ensue
Me: Laughs in The Wedge
Great vid Kale!
This is rife in Europe! Moving from Aust to the UK we would see a flurry of beginners who have done their week in a Portugal surfcamp then bought a board and worked up the chain. Good stuff, but these lessons seem to get lost along the way. Unfortunate with the growing numbers.
It would be cool to do a video about the paddle-out etiquette. This is the other biggie I see. You line up the wave of the session and right where you want to place a bottom turn.... there's someone paddling out or sitting... and doesn't make effort to move! grrrr.
As a bodyboarder I've got many waves steal, but what stand ups surfer don't realize is that is very easy to "tangled" my hand with the surfer leash
The etiquette of little groms to me is terrible but now I’m no longer a grom myself the amount of times I’ve been threatened
I don't put myself down as a great surfer, but I surf in CA, and have surfed on the N. Shore, Costa Rica and Bondi beach. Anyway, I would like to see surf shops that rent surfboards take about 15 minutes and go over some of the surf etiquette tips mentioned in this video. So many people on foamies don't even understand dropping in, snaking, going out in waves beyond their ability. After 20 yrs. watching this, it's not the beginner so much as the shop owner who rents without explaining some of these basics. my two cents.
This bloke gets it
Later in life learns need to watch this
Drop in on snakes. Problem solved.
Bro I’m gonna get a QR code sticker on my board then show them it when they drop in on me🤦
LOL fr make the whole board design a QR code
Super cool ! ❤️
😂
Free for all is pretty ok , you ve got to accept getting out positioned , out paddled , by better surfers and guys in better physical condition. Surfing is hard , and a sport that you practice solo ,
There is no disrespect or snaking if the guy comes back to the pic and out position you , while you’re just chilling laying on your board “waiting for the wave to come”
Don’t be lazy and learn to get and earn the priority
You nailed the Dropping !✌🏻
I find snaking and drop ins becomes a huge problem when there are a lot of inexperienced surfers in the water, and it's the more experienced surfers doing it. It happens because a good surfer sees somebody on a foamy missing five waves in a row, so they stop considering that person's priority. By and by, they lose track of the better surfers too and start assuming everyone's a kook and dropping in left and right.
What looks like greed is often just strategic line up dynamics.
I didnt know any of this, and definitely got dirty looks today when i went out. I was not sure why. Thanks
"Locals" logic: You and your kids come to the skatepark near my house, you all must sit to the side until my kids and I are done, and before we go some other people that live close deserve priority now, so you and your kids can sit to the side until they're done. You can have a couple of rides if you're lucky but if you don't let us go before you we will wait for you in the carpark.
From what I've heard about surfing, it kinda seems like that sometimes. Fuck that local vibe shit. It's just bullshit and it's just water. Waves come and go all the time and from what I've seen, most people just sit out there all day anyway, till they decide to take their perfect wave whether it really is or not and they usually don't do shit with the wave they've waited so long for anyway while they just float over other waves to avoid taking them, and they are the waves that are equally as good as the ones they sit in the water waiting an hour for. It's just surfing...not a once in a lifetime thing that will never happen again and definately not something to get that worked up about unless it's something that's gonna cause another person to get hurt in the water.
You gain respect by being a cool dude, not an asshole. If its about "respect" then earn it. Biggest myth in surfing.
For a wristy
So you'd go to the MCG on Grand final day with your kids for a bit of kick-to-kick on the field and then wonder why security is escorting you out and scream "not fair!!"?? If you don't know what's happening at a beach you only visit, and don't spend time caring for it, putting up fences for the pluvers, picking up rubbish and plastic, mending the paths, waiting for that day, you should show some respect for those who do and stop trying to figure out why everyone is so mad at you and calling you a blow-in.
Skateboarders are way chiller than surfers
This is excellent!! I think you should mention that forms who are locals get priority too. But thanks for this video!! ❤ as a 14 year old living in Hawaii, I wait for my chance to be at the front of the line, just for a long-boarder or short-boarder to paddle from a wave they caught right in front of me.
U R MY HERO!!!!!! love this!!!!! this should be mandatory in sydney beaches.....
Thanks for this haha! I started surfing daily 3 weeks ago, and had 3 people snap at me me in the last 2 days about dropping in on their waves (one was the dad of a daughter whose wave I dropped in on). Came on to RUclips to learn how not to drop in on people and see this as the first recommended video. This was meant to be 😂
I’m glad you watched this haha
why are you surfing around other people? go somewhere where there isnt a crowd. you will get more waves, and you wont be a danger to anyone but yourself.
@@xisotopex not an option man. I live in Waikiki and every break is crowded af. I don't have a car and buses don't allow surfboards
@@NadirOnTheGo just be patient and persistent, one day you will show up and it will all come together... sounds like a mad house but as your sill improves, it gets less chaotic
haha .. coffee .. in Miami you have Cuban cafeterias that serve shots of espresso to walk up customers .. often a window in a restaurant at which customers congregate outside ... much the same principles apply to a surprising degree .. the locals that frequent the place; the subtle dynamic of making your presence known to those around you and the server and where you are in the line ( without there being a line) such as positioning, body language, eye contact and a smile here and there; knowing who the big boys (and girls) are and an underlying notion of fairness and order. The lady behind the counter serving the shots is the wave. Of course, violations occur and many are uncomfortable navigating it ...but it works very well to a surprising degree.
definitely got the rose coloured glasses on for this video. On most Gold Coast points and sought after locations , there are usually more surfers than there are waves, and the "snakes" are better surfers because they "snake". On extremely crowded days with brilliant surf , its pretty common for localism to dominate through the adoption/formation of packs. locals in packs declaring a right to "Snake" and socially exclude non locals amid vocal declarations of needing "Peabo" to get rid of the pests ..... there is nothing more ridiculous/humorous than watching 2 guys trying to punch each other whilst sitting on boards "out the back".... great videos Kale, have reinspired me to get back in the water (and investigate the wave pools) after many years of sitting on the sidelines
I spent a week surfing this year and it was a tourist beach that just happens to have surf. Even tho I’m a bad surfer and not chasing peaks, just trying to catch them as they break, i try to follow etiquette, like if i see I’m in the way of someone further out than me ill move so they have a clear line. I didnt notice an algorithm or rule but it was just give everyone space.
Hello, just to say thanks for your videos, I'm fairly new to surfing, and I am trying to get to grips with it, not just how to surf, but the culture, and the frustrations, from basically not understanding. This has been really helpful. hehe, the amount of times though, I've tried to stay out of more experienced surfers ways, and really found a good little safe spot for me, and really paddled hard and though about it, and I've seen someone just checking me out, following me, and starting to make small talk so I loos concentration so they get my wave, or park up right in front of me..haha..to start with I used to think, arrrghh can't you see just how hard I've worked for that, have some grace!! be cool, I'd be cheering you on, now I think I am starting to see this is part of it all, a frustrating part, but a part none the less. I just get really safety conscious though and worry nasty accidents could happen if you are trying to be on top of someone else or trying to distract them, so it doesnt feel that cool. I sort of laugh now, but it did get my goat to start with. haha. x
Everyone needs to listen to these rules because it would make the surfing world a better and more peaceful place for everyone.
that example in the beginning we call “back paddling” in the States...which is a form of snaking where someone who doesn’t have priority (meaning they either just caught a set wave or haven’t been waiting in your spot/peak of the lineup as long as you have). they’ll sit inside of you, then when the set comes paddle outside of you past the peak, just a bit, only to paddle all the way back and essentially take off right where you were sitting. Back paddling would be like sitting at a traffic light, pulling out onto the shoulder like 3 spots behind the stop line, then pull up to the front of the line of traffic right before the light changes. Just snaking someone is dropping in on them down the line when they’ve taken off from the peak. Kooks usually drop in on the shoulder on a more experienced surfer in some type of “hey, look at me surf and wave my arms while I stick out my ass not letting you get a turn in without us clanking boards bc mines a soft top and I dont know about dings, so if I pressure ding ur board by the rails and change the way it surfs basically ruining your board costing you $300-500 then you’ll know I surf and am cool” ...right???!?!!
...wrong there kooky snake-O 🤦🏻
Hello Kales, priority is really well explained here.
I've been surfing for 10+ years now and as you said I see myself as a kind person (I respect the priority, I don't snake or drop in) but I can't really agree on what you say at 7:08.
It's the guy on the outside that must be aware of the people on the inside. I don't want to spend my time yelling at people when I have priority because they can't or they don't want to check if someone is on the wave.
Imagine that on the road, the person on the road has the priority and must honk at the persons who are waiting at the stop, that would be crazy :)
It's a great video btw
Totally agree and a great point since this is supposed to be a video to teach etiquette. 1) You are responsible for making sure you aren't dropping on someone 2) You are responsible from getting the hell out of the way of someone trying to ride a wave and if you can't diving under when paddling out 3) You are always responsible for your board and have to make sure it doesn't ever hit someone.
Worse is the snake that doesn't realize they are the snake but blames you. for instance, I was sitting out and watched a set come in, a lady surfer caught the wave and I watched her take the wave all the way to the sand. then on her way back out, another set came through, since it was a beach break, it came in on the other side of me, opposite of where she started on her last wave. I paddled toward the wave, this was a soft wave and rather than push all the way in to make certain I had the inside of where I knew she would be, I figured she would know that her turning around and taking the inside was snaking. The fact that she had the previous wave was enough evidence.
I caught the wave but I noticed her turn on my inside, and although she started to stand up, she backed off after she saw that I already had it. when I made it back out, she said to me, "I guess you owe me one". I asked her why, her response was that I snaked her. The only time this is considered snaking is if it were an 1980's surf competition, where the person on the inside has the right of way, always. But when it's not a 1980s competition, the etiquette is courtesy. You take turns.
I think the issue is that people are taught incorrectly about etiquette. They think having the inside is the only rule. So, the rest of that day, I made sure I was inside of all her waves, every single set that came in for 2 hours. haha Hope she got the point.
Perfect explanation. Hope you tried to explain to her at least 😂
@@KalesBroccoli I did, or at least I tried. She was a decent surfer too. The best part is, she started telling everyone out there how I had snaked her. Too bad for her that I knew most of them and they all sort of know I am not a wave hog, even if the waves come straight to me, I usually let others have it. After she got done explaining it to them, they would paddle over and say, "hey Thom, whats up, what she talking about". haha
Def learnt thru several surfers, it’s all about respect
i had no idea about snaking the line or that there even was a line about 2 weeks ago starting surfing and i feel horrid now because i remember just paddeling out and catching anything i could and NOBODY told me off i wish someone that day came up to me and explained this stuff
The other thing that needs to be mentioned kale is people taking off not looking all around them and they end up running into someone.or they know you are there but just take the risk on a critical section anyway.
Many times I really want to take off but I pull back because others safety is more important to me.
Kale eres un crack! Es una lástima que tus vídeos no estén subtitulados en español...
Sigue así, un saludo desde País Vasco.
Do I understand etiquette correctly: peak creates 2 sides, lh, rh. Closest to the peak has priority, but that means 2ppl can have priority.
I'm getting fairly irritated by Surfers paddling on the one side, surfing across the peak, and essentially forcing others off the wave. Sups and longboards do this a lot. I see this as bad etiquette - they should respect two breaks here.
Am I misunderstanding, is there only 1 priority per wave?
I was so used to skiing and snowboarding where everybody shares the slope and you ride side by side.
So I assumed surfing was the same. I did a “party wave” with a total stranger and he wasn’t happy. It didn’t make sense to me.
But how I get it. Let them take a wave and enjoy it. Wait for the next.
Butttttt you can totally share waves. So talk to the lineup and ask which direction they go and see if you can share.
I've been snaked, but I didn't complain bc
1. I was in random peak
2. I ride 10ft longboard (basically catching everything)
Man you made me panic for a minute with the snaking, as I would usually paddle to the line up without positioning at the end of the queue but then I realised you were talking about a defined peak and I usually surf beach breaks with no defined peaks where I go out back, sit there for a bit and wait to see who is catching what before including myself in !! Haha I'm doing just fine ! Thanks for this video, very useful !
Still should apply in random peaks, you can't just paddle back out and 'get lucky' four hundred times at the expense of other surfers. But take it on a car by case basis :) Be kind
At my main surf spot, it’s a reef pass with different peaks so the ones who get the most waves are the ones who paddle past everyone to the top peak that is behind the reef, that’s also where the most fearless(me) surfers go. So the snake one both dose and doesn’t apply at that spot.
I have to disagree with a comment you made regarding letting locals or professionals "snake you". I agree that I would be completely amazed if Kelly Slater randomly showed up and started surfing, however this whole "locals only" culture is what really frustrates me. I'm from Canada but live in Spain and we have some pretty nice waves. As a beginner that has recently moved to the beach, I'm not a "local" anywhere. With this whole "locals only" philosophy, technically, I wouldn't be able to surf anywhere... When I think about it, "locals" only want good surfers from the area to surf there, but at one point in their lives they had to learn how to surf.
I 100% agree with surf etiquette but the sea doesn't belong to anyone, neither does a beach or a break...Anyways, thanks for another great video! :)
As a beginner who did not grow up near the ocean it's hard to see and understand the etiquette, we beginners are so absorbed in our progress that there is no point in getting mad at us for something that we dont intentionally do. If i drop in it's not because i wanna be a jerk, it because I dont know the line up. Advanced surfers, be patient with us and explain the line up in a civil way. Definately a helpful video!
Understand the etiquette before you paddle out then. I did so you and every other beginner can.
It would be great if you could do a more beginner version of this. I'm pretty new to surfing and really want to do it right, not be a jerk or get in anyone's way etc. I've read the blogs, watched the videos, think I understand the rules in theory... but in practice it's hard, when you're new there's so much to think about on every single wave, I don't always trust myself to judge correctly where the peak is or which way the wave is breaking. I assume it's just a question of experience, but how do you get that experience without pissing people off in the meantime?
You don’t. And this guy just needs to give Grace as all surfers do. Short boarders are just Agro and territorial.
Try to choose surfing in a spot where the wave corresponds to your ability and others in the lineup are of similar level to you, and ideally where you are in the upper half.
Re drop ins. Does this apply on very crowded beaches like Bondi and Maroubra middle of Saturday? There are like 7-10 people going for a single wave.. Also mostly everyone gets carried away with the current side ways which makes the line messy...
I have the perfect Surfline cam footage of a textbook snake someone pulled on me today. I was waiting at the peak for the set to come in and had been there for a while. A guy comes paddling over after just catching a wave at another peak. Paddles over and under me and while shoulder to shoulder with me snakes the inside of the wave. Wish I could send you it
READ THIS ITS WORTH IT. Yesterday I was surfing Salt Creek in OC and two waves in a row the same grom ,who I have to admit was shredding the waves, dropped in on me. Usually I don’t care but on the second time I had to ditch very awkwardly and I snapped the nose off my new board I finally saved up enough money for on my birthday. So please whoever reads this, don’t snake waves it’s never a good thing.
where im from it is sometimes organized but theres so much people that sometimes we lose track and for some of the legends of the break they can get whatever wave they want also kids are to the side but no one is stoping you from going main break just dont mess up if you get a good one
in ireland its just a free for all! You get so many tourists buying bodyboards from the local surf shop and everyone gets in your way
What about when groms with sponsors paddle to your inside after just catching a set wave and then take the next wave. Then does that over and over again, is snaking permissible then? Or is it still wrong? Or what about when they drop in on you? Regardless if they were to surf the wave better or not. Surfing isn’t all about who can rip the hardest.
First of all thanks for the video and for everything else you do for a surf community! I have a related question. I am usually surfing at Diamond Head at Oahu - good beach for beginners and intermediate surfers. I would say this beach is a random peaked (or I am just still too bad to predict the ocean) so that's why I usually change spots from one group of people to another (as many other surfers do), and when I paddle to a new group - this group doesn't look like a line. It's more like normal distribution of surfers in a small area. As you explained in the video - this is one of the exceptions where snaking doesn't work (people everywhere around me, obviously I "snaked" some one). But what are the rules of such spots (especially when it is crowded)? The problem is that when the set is coming - always at least one person who is a little bit deeper in the ocean starts paddling. And even if I closer to a pick I am trying to give him a way. And really often it appears that this person was too deep for that wave or paddled not enough, so this wave keeps unridden. What are your suggestion of how to behave in such scenarios? Should I still paddle if I see that I closer to the pick (if I just paddled to this group and behave like this - it feels a little bit offense), or is this just a situation when there are not a lot to do because of the crowd?
The same rules apply but they are harder to apply !
I surf diamond head alot and there's definitely alot of beginners( I'm no ripper by any means). If you look there's a few general areas where the peak rolls in but it's not super set. I always give preference to the uncles I recognize that have been there for years. I'll watch everyone to see if they are making the wave etc. I never drop in (on purpose anyway) and if you actually do just pull off. D head is on the softer side IMO so you have to be more inside than it looks. After I watch and if the guy isn't really making it I'll paddle (giving him space) and if he falls or doesn't get on the wave I'll snag it. If he gets it I'll back off. That's been the courtesy out there in general. I like to give waves too because it's hard. Maybe I'll see you out there🤙🏽
I surf a beginner sandy beach and although there's no line up I still give up some good waves for others who missed the last one and expect same in return. No issues at all other than parents with young kids swimming right behind me in my paddling/pop up space.
How do you know whether you're at an organized break or a free for all break? Even the point breaks here in LA seem to be free for alls
I see it like this "if you drop in on me then the opposite is OK". etc
LA is a free for all. That's why the localized spots are super localized.
There’s really no such thing as a free for all break - some breaks just become them through sheer numbers and chaos.
Like El Porto 😂
Kales Broccoli My local is SA is free for all, the only standing rule is not dropping in. Usually between 6 and 20 guys, but various peaks. Everyone snakes, etc.
Another good vlog Kales! Let's hope all the "beginners" lol watch this and learn! My local brake is Huntington Beach Pier, Surf City. When people try to burn someone here we send them up the beach EVERY time. No respect NO WAVES for that person. It makes everything calmer and less stressful. Surfing is our escape whether your a beginner or pro surfer we all want that feeling surfing gives us. Follow along those that don't. Cheers and thanks mate 🤙😁 G⭐
lets have a vid about paddling over the face instead of to the inside.
Ugh... 'B' peak (lesser quality) with no one else or just friends OR the 'A' peak (premier peak) with the crowds. 'B' every time. And if I get snaked more than once, I say nothing and sit on top of them and make sure they get no more waves. I get a perverse enjoyment out of that. Eventually they go in and now everyone gets waves.
100% me too
So you're a passive aggressive person 🤔
@@MikSrf723 No, just aggressive when required. Nothing passive about what I do.
Had a guy in the surf up constantly paddling to the inside. I was waiting patiently but after the fourth time he did this I took off on the wave and dropped in on him. He got aggressive saying he was catching his quota of waves. But what annoyed me most was him saying he was just wanting to bring good vibes to the lineup and then saying he had no problem taking it to the beach.
Yeah great reminder! Heard it can get a bit difficult to follow etiquette in a place like Malibu when there's a ton of people there and it can be acceptable to share a wave.
i was watching some surf videos and i started to wonder a question on etiquette. when u get dumped mid wave, and turn to paddle out, u are stuck with 2 options, paddling through white water or inevitably converging with another guy riding a wave that you are paddling through. being the nice guy that i am, i usually just take the pain and go at the white water. BUT i notice a lot of guys just charge the wave, duck and hope for the best, and i think most surfers have enough control riding a wave to avoid an obstacle, unless they are pitted. anyway, im kind of a loner, so i just wonder what the rest of the surf community thinks about this.
Whitewater or whatever line it takes to not disrupt the riding surfer
I'm totally in your camp. Do the same thing every time(paddle for the whitewater) and always apologise if I end up accidentally/inadvertently in someone's way at any point! I'm also kind of a loner so can relate. But yeah most people, especially learners have no idea about this. It never ceases to amaze me how on a whole deserted beach, one kook with no idea is right in your line on every wave you surf! Often standing, wandering slowly back out, usually straight through a section you wanna hit/float/whatever, doesn't even flinch to move or get out of your way when they see you flying down the line towards them. And somehow manage to be in your way at some point on every single wave you get! Seriously, just move anywhere else! How do they not realise they're putting themselves in danger and just being a general nuisance? Full mindfu#%😂
Thanks for this!! I feel like so many people just snake anyway. I ride a longboard and they think that is an invitation to snake, even though I am extremely courteous and never personally snake (or sit way outside to get a longboard advantage)?