EPIC DRUM Sounds in a HOME STUDIO (Glynn Johns + UAD)
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- Опубликовано: 21 фев 2021
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What mics are you using on overheads and rooms?
Currently my overheads are 2 × Audix CX212. Been trying the midside combo of a Audio Technica AT2050 as the side (set to figure 8 pattern) and a MXL V250 as the mid (cardioid pattern). My room also sucks with almost no sound treatment.
Overheads: a pair of Lauten LA-120 in cardioid;
Room: Royer R-10
RN17s as overs and the Vanguard Audio 44s in the room!
Stager SR-2N!! 👍
Telefunken m60's :)
Lets not forget this technique started being a three mic technique, with the kick mic equally distant of both overheads. Forming an isosceles or equilateral triangle.
Love when people admit that they might be late to the party, but it doesn't stop them from sharing that something is amazing. I do this all the time and don't care if most everyone knew it a decade ago or whatever.
I was waiting for this video!!
Thanks, Andy.
Awesome video Andrew! Great tones! Awesome to know you're working towards putting a course together.
I remember first discovering the Glynn John’s technique when I was 14 trying to get good drum tones in my parents basement. Such an incredible technique! It will always have a special place in my heart. In my experience it doesn’t always work in large rooms as I came to discover later on, but in smaller to medium sized rooms it’s incredible!
THAT sounded FANTASTIC!!!!
Love your videos! I may have misunderstood what you were saying but I wanted to just provide a helpful tip for anyone watching that may have been confused on the Pultec EQ (~7min). The second attenuation volume knob applies to the attenuation selector knob in the corner NOT to the high frequency selector. It's a poor layout and design choice, but that's how it goes! In this example 16kHz is bell-boosted by +7db at setting 4 and 10khz is shelf-cut by -3db at setting 2)
I'm putting my drumkit in my studio this weekend. And mic'ing. I've been watching your drum mic videos. Great teaching material Andrew...🎤🎙🥁💻
Great video man! I always enjoy seeing your work! I did something similar during last nights session. I had an sm57 in the corner of my drum booth aiming directly at the floor about 2 inches away. A bit of low pass and an 1176 on the way in and it sounded great!
For me this is over all the most helpfull video i have seen in a long time!
Thank you very much!
Thanks this was SO helpful to me. I have really been struggling with drums in my small room. Really appreciate how you adjusted levels of Room, Parallel compression, etc. to hear how they interplay. And we got to hear the WHOLE process from the just the rooms tracks then layering in the close mics. Going to try baffling my room mic!! It's always too brash otherwise in my home setting. Bravo!!
Great to hear!
Amazing demo of the Glynn Johns method and how you mix drums!
Thank you kindly!
I've pretty much only used the Johns' method for the last 2 albums I've done. Every time I get away from it, I have to have it back! You used way more mics than I do but loving my drum mixes. Thank you for sharing.
Great video man, love how stoked on recording you are I feel the same.
Been using this technique for years with great results. A few things to think about.
If you’re going for that 70s rock sound with this technique think a lot about drum head choice and tuning. Bonham, Mitch mitchel, Ginger Baker all tuned their kits way up like a big band jazz drummer. They used coated heads and often a solid front head. If you go that way, your room mic really takes on a bigger roll in the mix once you compress it.
A wooden beater can also help a lot if you’re not getting enough snap from the bass drum head.
Fight the urge to put moongels on the drums and your laundry in the bass drum!
Love the SPL transient designer trick. Really made the snare open up!
already new about this but you gave me some new ideas thanks Andrew nice explaining
Hypercardiod on the mic by the tom! Really nice. I learned a trick from Hoborec where you use tone generators to reinforce drum mics w/ side chained gate. If you close mic your shells and blend use the technique you can find a blend between this smashed sound and a natural/sample punch
Dude, that room mic trick is money!! Thanks for sharing!
Amazing, thanks for this walkthrough!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Sounds Awesome
Thank you for the uploadddd
Thanks!
Nice vid, inspiring! Like it that you haven't stuffed each drumchannel full of plug-ins. It's really still sounding natural. Recording drums myself upcoming weekend. Using the hallway below my small attic studio as 'room-micspace'. We'll see how that works out.
Love it :D GREAT video!
thanks dear
Hey man. Good video. More please. You’re awesome.
I love this man!!! 🤓👍🏻
great content! cool . Thank you
Thank you 🙏
very good stuff! I'll try asap-
I went Gynn Johns about 3 months ago and haven't done a single session with anything else since. It just plain sounds better than dual overhead.
i've basically for probably 20 plus years either done drums with a mono 4038 or u47/87/67 and then stereo rooms...or a glen johns type setup with two ribbons. it just always worked better and sounded better to me. love beyer 160's as well. they are great microphones.
Sick setup
thanks!
I think of that technique as a different kind of overheads and then sprinkle in your close mics and rooms and such.It's just a different flavor.
Epic, one of the "new" words.
Heck yes fren!
Great sounds Andrew, would love some M160's myself.
11:05 you can hear the kick pedal noise when it's going back to his position xD omg the detail
Hi! The SPL Transient Designer just sounds incredible! I subscibed.
Awesome video! Thanks, Andrew :)
Glad you liked it!
Hi Andrew, Could you make video showing how you tune your drums??? Thank you
Very cool!
I have done the Glyn john and I uses 87's and it sounded great. but you cant pan them to wide cuz the kick and snare can be a little separated. But i think i backed the Right tom mic to far. Otherwise i loved it.
This techiniques for mics,really are Very usuabilly,exclusive from here Brazil,the guys lovers
Love the way this sounds. I feel like the rooms sort of induce a bit of weird phasing though? Maybe its just youtube. I would be curious to see what would happen if you used InPhase on the rooms checking on the Overheads and the Kick and Snare direct mic.
Really liked the title for this. When you go past four mic's you defeat the Glynn Johns idea.
That’s how I roll, I’m a walking contradiction.
Me starts watching video in my phone and when Andrew goes into Pro-Tools I immediately turn on my studio monitors and hears a difference..
You should try out the Devil Lock deluxe by sound toys. My absolute fav for crunchy buttery old school agressive sounding drums. Cool video! Those Beyers are incredible
Use it all the time, still love the decapitator more but it’s good too!
Nice sounds, and nice use of the good ole "expanded room" trick.
👍
BTW 1 there's a weird honk/knock sound on that kick drum... phase? I see the subkick is turned way up.
BTW 2 if you use those 2 mics basically just for cymbals and compress the hell out of them, it's not really "Glyn Johns technique drums", it's just overheads placed in the positions of the upper 2 mics of the 3 that constitute the Glyn Johns technique drum sound, which actually includes it all, cymbals, snare, toms, and kick. It's amazing the thundering toms that can be obtained along with the snare and cymbals with just those 2 upper mics, plus some beef from the 3rd, front/kick mic.
BTW 3 make no mistake, love me some Glyn Johns drums... and some Beyerdynamic M160 ribbons!
👌
Tight
The drums sounds great 😎👍The R88 room mic makes a big difference. Using Beyer M-160 ribbons in Glyn John,s configuration is good choice the only downside is that panning the oveheads in Stereo is a bit confusing. The Glyn John technic was originally made for Mono only. But most people don't use it whit only 4 mics and have more spot mics on crashes or another set of overheads so balanced Stereo paning can be more easily done. Personally i would go for X/Y or Otrf Stereo mic in the Middle above the drum set in combination with Ribbons like the Beyer M160 or Coles 4030 in Glyn John,s setup. When mixing you could leave the Glyn John,s mics in Mono and paint the Stereo balance with the extra X/Y Stereo overhead mic.
Agree to disagree, the panning is my favorite part. At least with where I have them placed currently. The imaging is amazing.
I gotta try this. I just picked up the Shure KSM 137s for my overheads and right now I'm doing XY position and it's not really cutting it. Psyched to give this a whirl.
I recorded my drums 50 percent Glynn Jones and the Recorderman technique. Please try the recorderman. I guess you will like it even more 😁
Pretty similar to Recorderman which also sounds great, less wide but punchier and more upfront
Cool drum sounds! What snare drum is that and what drum head?
2 RCA 44's in the Glyn Johns positions. Fet 47, and Dr. Alien Smith Sub on kick. Another RCA 44, and Copperphone off in the distance. Those distance mics get crushed with a Joe Meek SC2. No reverb.
Hot damn
@@AndrewMasters Sadly. I'm no longer in that room, which was glorious. Had to move. 2 words. Children, and schools. My new room? It sounds like balls. What we do for our kids. Thanks for the video!
Wow, what a combo that is/was. Any links to songs recorded with that set up Ken?
@@DrAlienSmith No links yet. Still tracking that song. Tearing down the studio/home, moving, kids, pandemic, hands have been full.
Hey Andrew, I also have a small studio in my home basement. I've always thought about recording drums in here too but I've never pulled the tigger on it. What are your rooms dimensions? Especially interested in your ceiling height? :-)
Question for you Andrew! How do you pan your overheads when using this technique, looks like you go full left and right for a stereo image, which I've read others try to pan more to where they are located above the kit. Would love to hear your thoughts. I thoroughly enjoy your channel, especially when it comes to getting drum sounds
this sounds awesome!! did you find that using hyper cardioid mics as the overheads for this technique was best? i’d love to try this technique with my drums, but don’t own a pair of hyper-cardioids, and i’m curious if i could get away with a large diaphragm condenser above the kit and another by the floor tom?
Hey man, just wondering the dimensions of your studio room? It's probably in a video you've done but I've watched so many I don't even know where to begin. Also, love your content my man.
This is a perfect example of why big recording studios are closing down and I love it. Great sound Andrew.
You love all that history and all the sound soaked into all those rooms going away? Nah, that’s a bad take dude. Be happy you can get great sounds, that’s cool. But don’t do all the great pros like that bro🎶✌️
@@bcdrummer1962 All I was saying bro was the reason studios are closing is because you can get great sound in your home studio. No dis on any pro drummers, as I am one myself.
@@maddogtungate6740 cool bro I read your comment differently✌️🎶 Thx for clarifying. Personally I’m bummed that all those great rooms are shutting down and becoming condos. I do get really good sounds in my room - that’s thanks to Ocean Way, Capitol, Neve, etc. etc. plug-ins. But when I had a chance to record in Sarm East in London a couple years ago, it was undeniable to be in a room with a console, history and vibe like that🎶🎶🎶
@@bcdrummer1962 I just did a session at Sunset Sound in Hollywood. Great live rooms .
@@maddogtungate6740 Now that’s what I’d call a ‘big recording studio’, and I hope it never closes down. Cheers!🎼
Love the dull punchy thud of the kick drum.
Wondering if you could use the low placed room mic(s), when placed in the right position, as a form of sub kick mic if you found the right spot for it and rolled off all top and middle?
Would it work as a sort of general sub harmonic low end mic just to give you the extra weight in the sound?
Yes, there is no better sub kick than a RCA 44 on the outside of a kick drum. It’s unbelievable
I do something similar in concept, I put up a lot of room locks trying to get different frequencies out of each.
For the kick mic I’ve stuck an RE20 about two feel in front of the kick to thicken up this approach.
I believe if Glyn Johns says “two drumsticks” out in front of the kick.
Ulf I can’t see what you’ve been commenting friend. Shoot me a message on Instagram if you have one!
Those scratch guitars literally sound scratchy in the best way possible. Also your drums are yuge.
Also also, I’d give you a respectable sum of money for a Home Studio Production course if that existed.
Nice to see someone with “ears”.
About the glin John technique , how do you pan the m160 microphones ?
Glyn (rhymes with in) Johns NOT Glen ‼😒
I'm a big fan of the M 160 and ribbons in general, which actually happen to work quite well with the Glyn Johns technique; however, Glyn Johns primarily used U67s, and sometimes U47s, or ELAM 251s, in cardioid mode. Most of the time a D30 would be used on the bass drum. A snare mic was printed sometimes, but only when he thought it was necessary, based on the drummer, and what kind of music was being recorded. It also helps if the drummer hits harder, like John Bonham or Keith Moon.
I understand what you're doing here, but once you go beyond the three or four mic setup, you no longer have the said technique.
EQ and maybe compression are used very sparingly with this method. The key thing that most people miss here, is that, the mic pres should be boosted 10 db more than usual, and the faders brought down 10db. THAT'S IT ‼It's not complicated. Unfortunately, you Millennials and Post-Millennials always have to keep adding more and more and more and.... 🤯
Love the snare processed and unprocessed. That a medium low tuning? Also I have the a7x monitors too. Do you find them a little on the bassy side?
Yeah maybe, I just tuned it however it sounded cool. The a7x's aren't bassy in my room. The "bassy-ness" will vary depending how the speakers are placed in relation to one another, to the desk, the wall behind them and the treatment around them. I'm very used to them and my setup. They're definitely have more low frequencies than say something like ns10s, mix cubes, or any of the hs line.
@@AndrewMasters Thansk man. Yea I think it’s my room. Anyway, drums sound awesome. Great job.
Yes,! nice mic room trick, tried it and works very nice in a small room. On the other side, why is the kick more on the right side on OH's? You intended this? Sounds unbalanced but maybe thats you wanted :)
Awesome, it's because it's closer to the kick
What kind of drum set. What kind of heads. How did you tune it? 😊
Seems like the hats are larger sized, less trebley and more washy. Which is distinctly cool... is this from the local sound of the hats or because of mic placement or processing.
Thank
You
A bit of both I’d say, They’re 15” Istanbul agop XIST hats.
@@AndrewMasters they sounding so sweet
What percentage do you pan your overheads? and Tom Close mics?
I always pan 100 on overheads. The Tom’s will change depending on the project, whatever feels cool.
*Has AEA R88*
...
*Uses it as a room mic behind a baffle*
Just a joke but great sound and video!
❤😂
Andrew, what is the size of your room? Thanks!
Did you ever mention your overhead setup? I can’t seem to find a part where you explain them, I only see the kit mic and side Tom one?
Those are the overheads, that placement is called Glynn John’s, typically he will just use those and a third mic in front of the kick.
@@AndrewMasters thanks I totally understand now, great content!
Glyn Johns might have a handicap as pointed out by Ryan from Creative Soundlab. It has to do with the edge of the cymbal creating a weird phasey sound when going “thru” the mic pickup pattern. I think it can be heard on 03:35 when the cymbal is hit. This is explained in detail by him in his channel. I am by no means an audio engineer, not even come close to your level, this is just an invitation to see what is explained in that channel as I think it can be helpful in getting even bettsr results.
Keep your hard work, as it is really a inspiration!
Super familiar with that video, it’s a good one! I’m a big fan of “do I love how it sounds” and if I do, then I’m not really worried about much else.
Andrew...what recording product do you use to get the type of side-by-side image? OBS does something like it, but you have a 1/4 of the screen consumed with you image and I cannot get that with OBS. I guess this cold be done post process, but that would be another thing. Thanks...
Hey dude, the audio playback and screen recording is done in Obs. I keyframe everything together in the video edit.
@@AndrewMasters Excellent.....thanks. AND....while I love the studio tours, I am excited to see a video of your own work. Nice job....
Thanks man, I get it. The studio tours really make all of this possible, as they are a very popular type of video. Where as more nuanced stuff like this is not as popular. Working to find a balance!
Great sounding drums overall and super impressive for that size of room but the balance between the overheads is a little odd to me - there’s a lot more kick in the right hand side. When you solo the overheads the kick is like “hey I’m over here -> 👋 “ and the fills seem super wide (which you seem enthusiastic about in the vid so that’s subjective)
You’re next to the wall on the (drummer’s) right so maybe there’s extra build up of kick in the room but if your two m160s are the same distance from the snare you might try swinging the right hand one around to try and balance up the stereo better. You are using (great sounding) close mics which are definitely obscuring any imaging discrepancies in the overheads but things can only get more punchy and solid if everything’s in the right place.
I mention this only because of the educational nature of the video, I’m not here just to shit on someone’s RUclips vid 👍
I had the same impression of the kick coming from the right when the overheads were solo'ed. In all fairness, that impression diluted a bit when the kick mics were brought in. My understanding is that Glyn Jones technique require equidistance not only from snare center but also kick beater.
@@cadetesespaciales can't have both equally distant. One possibility is to focusnin a point halfway between the bass drum beater impact point and the center of the snare, and measure the o/h from that point.
What hihat is it..?
Istanbul agop xist 15”
"I'm using a Pro Q3 as a phaseflip"
They really need to add a phase flip on the pro tools channel ha
I like overheads but I hate how cymbals and hi hats sound
wait, Glynn Johns method + bunch of mics ? That is not the Glynn Johns way.....
This is true
i had too many awkward moments with your mad angry face looking directly into the camera, but none the less good stuff.
All these mics make it sound too modern. Bonhams sound was achieved getting more of the room. This does not sound like glyn Johns.
Yeah at the time I didn't really have vintage AEA 44's and coles etc. If it's unclear, the video is about the technique not me trying to get an old sound.
@@AndrewMasters I feel you dude. No, it’s not unclear. When people specify a particular technique, it tends to just correlate to a specific number of mics and a similar placement. That’s why I’m confused by this video.
No, you're right good call. As soon as I get a 440, or 44 i'll do it legit.
You’re dope bro. Gonna model my desk after yours, also.
well i mean u r using 800 dollar microphones.....
U should learn to do things for a reason, u r arbitrarily turning knobs, ie makeup is to get ur level back to what it was prior to compression adjustments
Could you teach me?
Sorry, but it sounds like crap. Your room is WAY too small, not enough ceiling height and you have absolutely no low frequency (in the 30hz to 50hz range) treatment. Oh well. If you like the way it sounds, great. But I don't think it sounds very good at all. Getting a good drum sound in small room with low ceilings is always going to be a problem.