I can never ‘get’ how people can give clips like this a thumbs-down. Terrific video, with lovely characters. Informative and solid work, SOS, many thanks.
LOL i was jus going to comment that! That comment made me laugh so hard haha. Was totally thinking that myself lol. Running pro gear,, got sick mics...crap forgot to buy tools... #FirstWorldStudioProblems lol
Absolutely true, i had a lot of trouble with recording drums, trying all kinds of mic placement and EQing, until i decided to change my drum heads for a change and actually take the time to properly tune them. It makes all the difference in the world.
New drum heads are an easy and cheap thing to do. New skins, well tuned, will make most kits sing. Cymbals might cost more. Consider buying used and always try before buying. There's often a huge range of sound on the same model straight out of the factory, let alone before someone else has pounded the crap out of them :-).
My father was a studio musician from the late '40s to '85 and that was pre-overdubbing and pre multi-mic's and over-isolated instruments. He started commenting around the late 60's I think it was "Why do they have to make the kick drum sound like a cardboard box and conga drums so thin?". But at the same time sound-stage and better studios were improving their playback which he'd also comment on...early transistor mics and gear was horrible, tinny and harsh, just listen to movies and records around that time!
This is one of the best tutorials ever. Simple to the point shows the frequency’s and the setup of this kit which you can actually use for any other kick instead of changing every eq band and adjusting other eq to accommodate the mess people make all the time.
This is one of the most informative videos about recording drums that I've ever seen. Thank you for getting straight to the point and also using examples within the DAW
Fantastic video. Well done gentlemen. Its too easy to complain about a room, much more constructive to discuss how to deal with it and make good music.
One small point. When recording a small kick drum with a weak fundamental (around 80Hz as you suggest) I've found that a narrow boost at the first harmonic (Q about 2.5 - 3.0) of 160Hz tends to fill in the bottom nicely through its psychoacoustic affects on the fundamental. Be careful (of course) not to boost too strongly, but a small amount of boost at this 1st harmonic should add to the bottom without also adding mud to the sound... DT Hazelrig
Loved this video. I’m more for trying to tweak the room and the kit and performance even more rather than post effects, but the folks from SoS provide a working approach that is also easier for less experienced drummers. It’s very informative and extremely helpful. Awesome!
what a fantastic wealth of information, im 3 years late but wow, and he asks all the questions I had pretty much as they came up so both of you guys absolutely stellar video!
Very helpful tips, thank you! It would have been great, however, to use an experienced drummer. The sound produced by the kit at the hands of a good drummer can be substantially different.
Fantastic, thank you! Very impressed by the excellent sound you achieved with quite modest resources - fascinating (and your drumming is quite passable, don't put yourself down!). Thanks again for posting.
one thing i'd add is that pointing ab stereo mics to each other doesn't make sense as the stereo image by the volume difference will be the exact opposite to the stereo image by the timing difference. In my experience that just results in harder to locate cymbals and toms
If a producer have a small room and can't get a good drum sound, GO TO ANOTHER STUDIO to record them. Young producers needs to get out from the confort zone of their bedrooms and start to work on another enviroments and tools for develop their own criteria and experience. (And wknow why they buy the gear they have) As a producer you have the logistics, so if you need to go to another studio to get good drum sounds, GO. Rent the studio, go with the artist, work with another engineer or do it yourself. Rent some hours on a proper studio and save hours of over-compressing and over-eq'ing tracks for make ithem just work. Big Studios are there for something,. Young Producer: Start putting your name on higher quality stuff. Nobody will do it for you.
I use a 2p piece between two layers of gaffa tape to dampen Skins. You can vary the size of the coins. But the 2p is usually the best. And dampens much better than tissue. You can get a bit too dead with coins sometimes. But it can be really cool for funk or stuff like that.
I was thinking to try 4 mics for overhead, 2 condenser mics space pair measure same distance to the snare and 2 of SM57 mics with ORTF or XY and measure the same distance to the snare with the earliest 2 space pair condenser mics, maybe is just a silly idea to get bolder sounds of the drum kit and more natural cymbals sound
Biggest problem I have with recording my drums in my home (small rooms & low ceilings) is separation of the mics from each other. Impossible to keep the snare out of the bass drum. I made a sound block out of heavy drape and some wire that I hung from the snare rim this helped some but not a lot really.
These are great tips. Perhaps? the only thing I'd wonder is why if your going for a good sounds and talk about tuning the kit before you press rec- why would you use factory heads on a kit- it be makin no cents. Even on cheap drums quality heads make a huge difference.
I get the feeling, looking at the kit, that they’re kind of gearing this toward people exactly like him: someone who is not a drummer by nature, but has a home studio and happens to have his own drum kit that he picked up cheap, and either doesn’t have the money to be replacing heads, cymbals, etc., or just doesn’t know enough about it by virtue of the fact that he’s not a drummer by profession. I’ve been in a similar situation, where a friend wanted to record a quick EP on my new Tascam 8 track in his living room (while his roommates were out for the weekend) and wanted to use his $80 drumkit rather than trying to use a drum machine or making tracks in GarageBand or something like that. The kit he had was a starter kit for kids, all straight out of the box with the exception of nicer hi-hats, so it did not sound amazing.. but we tuned them until they sounded cool and worked with the room, and then tried to capture that sound with the mics. The result was pretty similar to this, only we weren’t deadening the sound as much as these guys did only to try and add it back in the mix. In the end we got it sounding pretty good, mastered it to VHS tape, made digital copies from there, and he handed them out at his next show. Not something I’d necessarily try to recreate, but it worked for the project. But yes, I would have gotten a real kit with good heads if I was able at the time.
Really great tips even though i have thought on removing the fundamental the toms because that where i want it to resonate an give me the punch but i will try you technique
Great video, fellas! Though , might I suggest you lose the moongels? You'll get more with the natural tones through choice heads and TUNING. The gels are killing too much of the natural tones of the drums and you're having to do way too much in post . What you're deadening with the gel is exactly what you're looking to re-animate in post... Space! Save yourself some redundancy. Tune the drums to the room you have and lose the moongels. You'll get more of what you're looking for.
I agree - sort of. Moon gels sound like ass. They make drums not sound like drums anymore. People use them because they’re easy and you buy them in a music shop. But the best thing to use - and I’ve worked with top producers that do this - is a dish cloth or an old shirt. The thinner the material, the more original tone you’ll keep while damping a little bit. Then just play with how much is on the drum. Cover the whole thing for dead sounds and do just a corner for a nice ring out. Now that I’m thinking about, I’ve never tried using silk. I may have to give that a shot next time.
One other small suggestion. An interesting trick for a bottom snare mic can be done through placing a couple of pieces of ceramic tile beneath the snare and pointing a microphone setup at the level of the bottom head of the snare towards the highly reflective ceramic tile. This produces much the same effect as a more standard bottom mic of the snare drum with less chance of phase anomalies... DT Hazelrig
Great video, and thanks for all the content, discussion, and interesting tips and tricks. If I may just offer some constructive criticism - I think the snare sounded a bit anemic. It had a sort of thin, ‘sample’ quality to it, inorganic if you will. Id’ve liked it with more low end, and more ring - it was lacking a ‘fatness’ and was too tame and flat. A little ring in a snare is a good thing, it’s a characteristic of the drum and ties the kit together as well. And (especially nowadays) the fat, beefy snare sound is omnipresent. Deeper snare drums are very much in use today (14”x8” seems to be the new “gotta have”), even the ‘snom’ (floor tom with a snare system) is gaining traction, all to capture that BIG round booof of a big snare. Kind of an equal and opposite reaction to the wimpy drum machine snare sound possibly. BOOOF.
Can I possibly do a modified Glyn Johns or Decca Tree to record in a decent size bedroom? I’m brand new to recording/mixing and all that and not even 2 years into my drum kit, but I was able to get a few cardioid mics as a rebate and currently have 2 setup as a spaced pair (nothing is plugged into anything yet, just the stands and mics), I originally wanted to be able to get the actual Decca Tree layout which is the 2 spaced overheads about 2 meters apart and then a third is placed in the middle about 1.5 meters away to create a triangle. Now, I don’t have the room to really space my overheads over the kit 2 meters because the left side of my kit goes up to a wall, so I’m mainly wondering, am I able to scale down the Decca Tree, still keep a 2:1.5 ratio for mic spacing, can I make like a mini Decca Tree? Or am I better of just using them as standard condensed spaced overheads and use the third as a mono or just kinda down low in front of the kit to pick up a lot of the bass, but also some of the resonance the overheads aren’t (cause I’m just starting out) because I don’t yet have a proper bass mic, such as a a sennheiser e602 or e902 or the Shure Beta 91A are all spectacular, but I’m only just getting into mic’ing and mixing, so I’d rather take it a bit slower and not spend hundred upon hundreds yet. Any advice is appreciated.
In this video they are using logic. I suggest taking a look at reaper too, logic is nice for writing songs but mixing and editing are nicer in pro tools and reaper (YMMV) plus reaper is only 60 euro. I use a combination of pro tools, reaper, and logic depending on what task I'm using it for.
Accepting the limitations of your space and developing a love for your own unique recorded sound is the biggest mental hurdle. If you compare your recordings with Abbey Road, you'll never be happy! Oh, and don't forget a Wurst (look up Moses Schneider) and get yourself a decent drummer - much more important than mic placement!
escelent video, although i disagree about moving drums. ofcoarse a drummer has to be carefull but if everything is all too close together bleed starts to become an issue especially with drummers who like to smash cymbals. were not talking moving stuff miles away just a few inches. dependant on style of music though as sometimes you may want to bleed so it sounds more organic. If your mixing metal, this is a must! Having hihats right next to the snare is a disaster, and usually the drummer becomes inconsistant and cant hit the snare hard enough particularly in faster beats. its important for engineers and musicians to work together to get the best results for the record. You dont need to say you need to move that, discuss say such and such may sound better if theres a bit more space or thats a bit higher. if its detrimental to your performance well move it back.
![Recording Drums With Steve Albini [Third Circle Recordings]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kmP9z-xTRz0/mqdefault.jpg)
Good tips for the humble home recordist
Live mixing and studio mixing tips. Helps the humble guy to stop over doing his eqs
I can never ‘get’ how people can give clips like this a thumbs-down. Terrific video, with lovely characters. Informative and solid work, SOS, many thanks.
Too old geezers banging on about room reflections in a garage? I can't imagine why! Lol.
Probably they want to see a performance even though the guy cant play
@@ramonkey2939 It's about recording.
@@joelonsdale It's about recording. Don't watch it.
@@dangrahamdrums You've misunderstood both the posts - we were agreeing with the original positive post in a humourous way (notice the lol).
"Or a tape measure if you can afford one."
"Oh, that's posh."
Gotta love British humor.
LOL i was jus going to comment that! That comment made me laugh so hard haha. Was totally thinking that myself lol. Running pro gear,, got sick mics...crap forgot to buy tools... #FirstWorldStudioProblems lol
I lost it! 😂
Spend as much as you can afford on good cymbals and drum heads and spend time on tuning and that will really, really help.
Absolutely true, i had a lot of trouble with recording drums, trying all kinds of mic placement and EQing, until i decided to change my drum heads for a change and actually take the time to properly tune them. It makes all the difference in the world.
I absolutely agree.
New drum heads are an easy and cheap thing to do. New skins, well tuned, will make most kits sing. Cymbals might cost more. Consider buying used and always try before buying. There's often a huge range of sound on the same model straight out of the factory, let alone before someone else has pounded the crap out of them :-).
That, with some shure 57s. You'll be fine.
Starting out you only really need c2s for overheads, beta 52 for kick, and 57 on snare
"Hitting a suitcase with a partly thawed haddock" - impossible to beat.
My father was a studio musician from the late '40s to '85 and that was pre-overdubbing and pre multi-mic's and over-isolated instruments. He started commenting around the late 60's I think it was "Why do they have to make the kick drum sound like a cardboard box and conga drums so thin?". But at the same time sound-stage and better studios were improving their playback which he'd also comment on...early transistor mics and gear was horrible, tinny and harsh, just listen to movies and records around that time!
This is one of the best tutorials ever. Simple to the point shows the frequency’s and the setup of this kit which you can actually use for any other kick instead of changing every eq band and adjusting other eq to accommodate the mess people make all the time.
This is one of the most informative videos about recording drums that I've ever seen. Thank you for getting straight to the point and also using examples within the DAW
The best magazine period. The most researched people. You guys are the best.
Love these guys. “A good cymbal is a wondrous thing and a bad cymbal is...not.”
Two legends. Amazing that content like this is provided at no charge!
I've been watching Drum Miking video's all day - this has by far been the most informative - thank you guys!
Fantastic video. Well done gentlemen. Its too easy to complain about a room, much more constructive to discuss how to deal with it and make good music.
Having some acoustic treatment above the overheads is big brain time. Haven't heard that mentioned before
One small point. When recording a small kick drum with a weak fundamental (around 80Hz as you suggest) I've found that a narrow boost at the first harmonic (Q about 2.5 - 3.0) of 160Hz tends to fill in the bottom nicely through its psychoacoustic affects on the fundamental. Be careful (of course) not to boost too strongly, but a small amount of boost at this 1st harmonic should add to the bottom without also adding mud to the sound...
DT Hazelrig
1:29 whoah...stern and direct. Complete with lofty stare down. His patience had been sorely tested by that point.
Great video 👏👏 you guys pretty much went over everything fundamental to getting the drums where they need to be.
This is such a goldmine for the little guys out there. Cheers boys!
The lazer pointers on the overheads blew my mind lol
Loved this video. I’m more for trying to tweak the room and the kit and performance even more rather than post effects, but the folks from SoS provide a working approach that is also easier for less experienced drummers. It’s very informative and extremely helpful. Awesome!
what a fantastic wealth of information, im 3 years late but wow, and he asks all the questions I had pretty much as they came up so both of you guys absolutely stellar video!
This is one of the best videos for at-home drum recording on youtube! Thanks for this
Hahaha I love 10:47 "Would you trust your capacitor mic to a drummer?"
Just ask my dented U87 overhead mic!
Great tip on shaping the bass drum EQ
Great tip on how to check the phase of the mics! THANKS!
'Drums played like a true guitarist' :)
Hi Paull / Hugh. This takes me back to when you came back to my house studio.
Thanks for the 500 Hz kick tip ;).
This is a very practical and helpful video for home studio owners. Thanks!
Very helpful tips, thank you! It would have been great, however, to use an experienced drummer. The sound produced by the kit at the hands of a good drummer can be substantially different.
Thank you. Straight to the point. I took a lot of notes and learned a lot.
Fantastic, thank you! Very impressed by the excellent sound you achieved with quite modest resources - fascinating (and your drumming is quite passable, don't put yourself down!). Thanks again for posting.
I appreciate the use of stock plugins for this
Just a note always pick up the drum dial and set it back down as to not get false readings
What’s a drum dial?
one thing i'd add is that pointing ab stereo mics to each other doesn't make sense as the stereo image by the volume difference will be the exact opposite to the stereo image by the timing difference. In my experience that just results in harder to locate cymbals and toms
Excellent advice, and nice drumming Paul!
is there much difference between using the sub kick plug in, and just opening that low cut back up on the EQ how you were doing @17:30?...
This video is gold !
i really love this kind of smart and simple explanations.. thanks for the video and the quality! Cheers from Mexico!
I've always wondered what Bob Flemming's studio would look like. Nice. :)
If a producer have a small room and can't get a good drum sound, GO TO ANOTHER STUDIO to record them.
Young producers needs to get out from the confort zone of their bedrooms and start to work on another enviroments and tools for develop their own criteria and experience. (And wknow why they buy the gear they have)
As a producer you have the logistics, so if you need to go to another studio to get good drum sounds, GO. Rent the studio, go with the artist, work with another engineer or do it yourself.
Rent some hours on a proper studio and save hours of over-compressing and over-eq'ing tracks for make ithem just work.
Big Studios are there for something,.
Young Producer: Start putting your name on higher quality stuff. Nobody will do it for you.
Nice video, guys - great banter. I wouldn't want a ticking clock in my studio though!
Hey thank you for this, it's very useful and to Paul - You're really not bad on the drums! Well done! Thanks.
You guys are brilliant.
Wonderful video
I'm actually really liking that kick drum sound. What size of a kick was this? Looks to be 16".
This is great, thanks fellas
Thanks! I really learned a lot from this video.
I use a 2p piece between two layers of gaffa tape to dampen Skins.
You can vary the size of the coins.
But the 2p is usually the best.
And dampens much better than tissue.
You can get a bit too dead with coins sometimes.
But it can be really cool for funk or stuff like that.
Excellent video. Lots of great pointers
thank you, that was really helpful!
This video is great! An awful lot of useful information!
This is ultimate, thank you 🙏
I was thinking to try 4 mics for overhead, 2 condenser mics space pair measure same distance to the snare and 2 of SM57 mics with ORTF or XY and measure the same distance to the snare with the earliest 2 space pair
condenser mics, maybe is just a silly idea to get bolder sounds of the drum kit and more natural cymbals sound
Just find hi hats , snare and great cymbals and heads that work with your kit. Some heads to give justice to the wood
You guys are great!
Great tips thanks
Biggest problem I have with recording my drums in my home (small rooms & low ceilings) is separation of the mics from each other. Impossible to keep the snare out of the bass drum. I made a sound block out of heavy drape and some wire that I hung from the snare rim this helped some but not a lot really.
Great tips overall, but what were they thinking with that high tom tone?
Love these guys! Thanks Paul and Hugh! Just off to re-read LIVE SOUND before the scary "first gig in a bigger venue" this weekend :-D
These are great tips. Perhaps? the only thing I'd wonder is why if your going for a good sounds and talk about tuning the kit before you press rec- why would you use factory heads on a kit- it be makin no cents. Even on cheap drums quality heads make a huge difference.
Agreed. Where are they getting these engineers anyway? Just your average joe with an SOS shirt having a go at recording ??
I get the feeling, looking at the kit, that they’re kind of gearing this toward people exactly like him: someone who is not a drummer by nature, but has a home studio and happens to have his own drum kit that he picked up cheap, and either doesn’t have the money to be replacing heads, cymbals, etc., or just doesn’t know enough about it by virtue of the fact that he’s not a drummer by profession.
I’ve been in a similar situation, where a friend wanted to record a quick EP on my new Tascam 8 track in his living room (while his roommates were out for the weekend) and wanted to use his $80 drumkit rather than trying to use a drum machine or making tracks in GarageBand or something like that. The kit he had was a starter kit for kids, all straight out of the box with the exception of nicer hi-hats, so it did not sound amazing.. but we tuned them until they sounded cool and worked with the room, and then tried to capture that sound with the mics. The result was pretty similar to this, only we weren’t deadening the sound as much as these guys did only to try and add it back in the mix. In the end we got it sounding pretty good, mastered it to VHS tape, made digital copies from there, and he handed them out at his next show.
Not something I’d necessarily try to recreate, but it worked for the project. But yes, I would have gotten a real kit with good heads if I was able at the time.
Thanks for the good tips
Nicely done!
Paul White knows his stuff...
Great video SOS. Thanks
Really great tips even though i have thought on removing the fundamental the toms because that where i want it to resonate an give me the punch but i will try you technique
Great tips for making the room sound muddy. You need broadband absorption, foam and blankets only absorb the highs, which are less of an issue anyway.
A whole lot of good info guys! Cheer-O! 💕🥰💕🥰🙏🙏😎😎
Good video asked all the right questions!
brilliant. thank you so much
Great video, fellas! Though , might I suggest you lose the moongels? You'll get more with the natural tones through choice heads and TUNING. The gels are killing too much of the natural tones of the drums and you're having to do way too much in post . What you're deadening with the gel is exactly what you're looking to re-animate in post... Space! Save yourself some redundancy. Tune the drums to the room you have and lose the moongels. You'll get more of what you're looking for.
I agree - sort of. Moon gels sound like ass. They make drums not sound like drums anymore. People use them because they’re easy and you buy them in a music shop. But the best thing to use - and I’ve worked with top producers that do this - is a dish cloth or an old shirt. The thinner the material, the more original tone you’ll keep while damping a little bit. Then just play with how much is on the drum. Cover the whole thing for dead sounds and do just a corner for a nice ring out.
Now that I’m thinking about, I’ve never tried using silk. I may have to give that a shot next time.
Thank you!
Thank you, very informative.
awesome info thanks for sharing
Lovely video, guys - thanks!
One other small suggestion. An interesting trick for a bottom snare mic can be done through placing a couple of pieces of ceramic tile beneath the snare and pointing a microphone setup at the level of the bottom head of the snare towards the highly reflective ceramic tile. This produces much the same effect as a more standard bottom mic of the snare drum with less chance of phase anomalies...
DT Hazelrig
Very helpful and practical tips...
Very helpful video
Great video, thanks!
Great video, and thanks for all the content, discussion, and interesting tips and tricks. If I may just offer some constructive criticism - I think the snare sounded a bit anemic. It had a sort of thin, ‘sample’ quality to it, inorganic if you will. Id’ve liked it with more low end, and more ring - it was lacking a ‘fatness’ and was too tame and flat. A little ring in a snare is a good thing, it’s a characteristic of the drum and ties the kit together as well. And (especially nowadays) the fat, beefy snare sound is omnipresent. Deeper snare drums are very much in use today (14”x8” seems to be the new “gotta have”), even the ‘snom’ (floor tom with a snare system) is gaining traction, all to capture that BIG round booof of a big snare. Kind of an equal and opposite reaction to the wimpy drum machine snare sound possibly. BOOOF.
great video guys!!
For low ceiling should I just put acoustic treatment over the drum kit on the ceiling only or cover even more of the ceiling in acoustic foam?
The ceiling
Brill! thanks!
It'd have been nice to hear the kit within the context of a real rock mix. Good job explaining the basics.
Great information 👍
Great. thx!!!
In the 80s we never knew kick drums had a click, especially 808s
Where is the Wurst mic from Moses Schneider?
Can I possibly do a modified Glyn Johns or Decca Tree to record in a decent size bedroom?
I’m brand new to recording/mixing and all that and not even 2 years into my drum kit, but I was able to get a few cardioid mics as a rebate and currently have 2 setup as a spaced pair (nothing is plugged into anything yet, just the stands and mics), I originally wanted to be able to get the actual Decca Tree layout which is the 2 spaced overheads about 2 meters apart and then a third is placed in the middle about 1.5 meters away to create a triangle.
Now, I don’t have the room to really space my overheads over the kit 2 meters because the left side of my kit goes up to a wall, so I’m mainly wondering, am I able to scale down the Decca Tree, still keep a 2:1.5 ratio for mic spacing, can I make like a mini Decca Tree?
Or am I better of just using them as standard condensed spaced overheads and use the third as a mono or just kinda down low in front of the kit to pick up a lot of the bass, but also some of the resonance the overheads aren’t (cause I’m just starting out) because I don’t yet have a proper bass mic, such as a a sennheiser e602 or e902 or the Shure Beta 91A are all spectacular, but I’m only just getting into mic’ing and mixing, so I’d rather take it a bit slower and not spend hundred upon hundreds yet.
Any advice is appreciated.
Reflecting on reflections
What software do u guys uses. Is it logic, just curious as I’m getting into it and wanted to try it.
In this video they are using logic. I suggest taking a look at reaper too, logic is nice for writing songs but mixing and editing are nicer in pro tools and reaper (YMMV) plus reaper is only 60 euro. I use a combination of pro tools, reaper, and logic depending on what task I'm using it for.
Logic for recording ableton for programming/drawing notes. Logic ain’t too bad for mixing especially starting out
I have an 8x10ft room that I want to turn into a drum/bass/guitar recording area. Help.
is it me or did the toms sound better before the eq?
Accepting the limitations of your space and developing a love for your own unique recorded sound is the biggest mental hurdle. If you compare your recordings with Abbey Road, you'll never be happy!
Oh, and don't forget a Wurst (look up Moses Schneider) and get yourself a decent drummer - much more important than mic placement!
On your overhead mics are there laser sights for aiming the capsule?
Man he wasn’t kidding about that crash cymbal 😅
15:00
"or a tape measure if you can afford one"
I like how he is mouthing along while he has the tape measure.
He said it like a gangsta 1:30
escelent video, although i disagree about moving drums. ofcoarse a drummer has to be carefull but if everything is all too close together bleed starts to become an issue especially with drummers who like to smash cymbals.
were not talking moving stuff miles away just a few inches. dependant on style of music though as sometimes you may want to bleed so it sounds more organic. If your mixing metal, this is a must! Having hihats right next to the snare is a disaster, and usually the drummer becomes inconsistant and cant hit the snare hard enough particularly in faster beats.
its important for engineers and musicians to work together to get the best results for the record. You dont need to say you need to move that, discuss say such and such may sound better if theres a bit more space or thats a bit higher. if its detrimental to your performance well move it back.
good video quality information!
Jolly good advice old chums!