Hello @Optimum Tech I would like to know is it Worth it to cap FPS to my 240hz and use g-sync? Or better get 250-300 FPS w/o cap and g-sync. I play Valorant and CS:GO
@@nicelich unless you’re GPU bound in those games, a frame cap won’t improve your input delay. In regards to G-sync, I personally don’t notice tearing beyond 240Hz, but it’s up to you!
I dare to say that he's the ONLY ONE that could make a video like this in RUclips. Everyother major channel is either a casual player or not a player at all so we have no clue when they talk about gaming competitively.
@@levilima9925 I would say Battle(non)sense is the one to also note here, since he has been covering this type of content for quite some time now, and not only talks about System Latency, but also network latency as Network Engineering is one of his areas of expertise.
1. More frames = better 2. Maxing out your GPU is bad. 2.1. If you're maxing out your GPU, ultra low latency, or reflex will help reduce the penalty. 3. Framelimiter can be set to a value your GPU can comfortably maintain, improving consistency and avoiding maxing out the GPU. (4. With G-sync you'll want to limit the FPS to your refresh rate, or ideally slightly below to avoid tearing from running _above_ your g-sync range.)
You don't really have to cap fps to your refresh rate for G-sync. You can also cap it much lower. Example, 60 fps to 120hz, 72 fps to 144hz, 60 or 90 fps to 180hz. In case your pc can't perform as good as your monitor refresh rate. V-sync still working as intended on those fps. So you don't have to suffer stuttering when the fps dips.
so if my monitor is 170hz and my GPU can get over 200fps but with 99% load then it will be better to just cap the fps to 170hz and enable nvidia reflex(bonus) for lower latency?
you are legitimately the only channel I've ever listened to. I undervolted my 5600x + 3070 setup and couldn't be happier with the performance. keep it up
Thats a great setup, thats what I had for a few months. Now I have a 3080 but tbh the 3070 seemed to be a much better combo for the 5600x. Given me a few issues probably related to power or sth bc I only have a 750 watt and the gpu and cpu both have aio’s.
@@istachi i use a RTX 3090 at stock and a 5800X. I use a mesh case (air cooling, Noctua fans everywhere at low RPM) with stock frequencies and voltages with no temp issues (and i tested with prime95 and furmark separately for 1 hour each).
Mate, just props to you! This channel is awesome! So much info, so many practical tips here + the asthetics. Greetings from Germany! No time to play and build a gaming rig rn, but man, I have found so much inspiration here for when the time finally comes to build my own rig! Much appreciated!
Interesting that the framerate cap looks to be the best method, as long as you have sufficient GPU power to cap it at a high enough FPS. The results at 6:09 is especially interesting with the capped lower frames having lower input lag even though the higher frame tests didn't come close to maxing GPU usage.
Kinda late to the party, but in valorant uncapping my frame rate and making my gpu run at 95-99% actually reduces the total gpu frame time of mine. Which uncapped site at around 2ms of frame Time. When I cap it at my monitor frame rate it jumps all the way to 4/5ms. While having to work less and being at like 50/60%. So I’m kinda confused about that.
I’m somewhat amazed that ”battlenonsense” is always abcent from the comments in these types of videos ...he’s the frickin god almighty when it comes to latency etc.
Your comparison with facts and practical application is definitely something I look forward to all my life when judging anything tech related. Great channel & all the best!
Sure thing partner. It’s called optimum plays. Just type that in the search bar. It’s got a picture of his adorable cat on there. 3 blocks down. You can’t miss it
Gsync is actually good to use. It syncs your gpu frames within your monitors range. Vsync is the one not to use. But freesync and gsync both will lower input latency by syncing your gpu with your monitor.
Nice lil bonus for setting a frame rate cap can sometimes yield lower temps. My gpu was pushing up to 79C w/ unlocked frame rate. I set a cap of 118 (my LG C9 can only do 120hz) and that dropped my temps to 70-72C.
@@natnaelabayneh7664 unlocking fps will reduce the input lag on competitive game but ur eyes will still only seeing 60fps because ur monitor can only show 60fps/hz so I think its better to cap ur fps at 120 so it still have the benefit with lower input lag and stable latency, but its if ur laptop can handle over 120fps if not then just cap it to 60hz
It’s all about the GPU basically an where the Input of the monitor stands from the Calibration of the CPU and how much every GB of Ram can produce an entire class of Frames overall Well done mate I’ve learned a lot when I watch your videos 😅😊
I just realized yesterday that Nvidia's overlay was causing 3 layers of input lag; desktop capture and the streaming option. Turn them off! Even if you're not streaming, make sure you get them off in the options.
important detail, caping framerate from outside the game will result "always" in more input lag, than a good in game limiter / reflex, and it should be avoided when possible
So you're saying when I cap system wide via Rivatuner I'm going to end up with more input lag than capping via, say, the Escape from Tarkov ingame settings?
@@Wxstrn does anyone really notice 1-3ms delay?? I mean maybe pro players. Like 30fps to 60fps you can feel the difference and even more so if its 240fps etc.
@@Wxstrn it's worse than that isn't it? I remember seeing that rtss adds a frame of latency since it needs at least 1 frame of a buffer to do what it does. So it could be 7ms at 144hz, but that's why the frame times are so perfect. Because of the buffer.
@@RequiemOfSolo depends on a few other things I think. But yeh. ESP added with hardware. I can tell a difference in monitor input lag & or 1ms vs 4ms response time. I swear.
So from my understanding, the best way to use all your hertz (given you can reach it) cap the fps at your refresh rate along with turning on low latency, and if you can't reach say, 360fps with 360hz, then cap it at a reachable number like maybe 240fps to get less latency.
Basically. Monitor Hz limit is best assuming you can consistently hit it without issues. If not cap somewhere around your average fps, I'd round it down as well. Say you are pulling 134 fps fairly consistently, I'd cap it at 120 instead of 144 so that your fps dips are less noticeable making fps more consistent and less visible stutter over all. Some games have occasional flickering issues that can be resolved by capping fps as well.
@@dampintellect curious if I should use nvidia boost, vs amd freesync premium (rtx 3070 gpu, and freesync monitor) As well as if I should keep my frames uncapped vs capped with frames going above 300, but falling down to 140-180 in firefights...
PLEASE with your input latency testing setup test borderless windowed vs full screen in todays games in 2022, like Apex, Valorant, Rocket League, etc. I’ve heard mixed reviews and would like it put to the test FOR SCIENCE! Keep up the awesome content. This channel has single handedly inspired me to dial in my rig settings and peripheral choices and get back into shooters and feel competitive in them again. Thanks from the USA!
Yes and no. Having even higher framerate still helps, it's just that the visual feedback can't be improved, but the action of shooting/turning/moving still happens faster. A input lag detector like LDAT is based on the monitor to show up the change and the monitor(s that we have now) is not as fast (400 or more Hz). However, we're kind of talking of gains of 1ms or lower, so... uhm, yeah.
@@Winnetou17 this is literally measuring input lag of how fast you can see the movements you make appear on screen. There isn’t any other measurement. You don’t turn faster with more fps.
@@OTechnology Just because you don't see a frame does not mean things didn't happen in that frame! And it's not that you turn faster, is that you turn sooner. This can be more easily tested (well, already was) on 60 Hz monitors running games at 240+ FPS.
GREAT VIDEOS. Quick question about input lag: 1- mice to monitor like "odyssey g7 240hz" VS 2- Mice to Computer USB3 port. Which one have less input lag? 1 or 2 in 2022. Is it true Mice to Monitor have best result and less input lag? (i do not talk about reponse time and keyboard, only input lag.)
I have a suggestion for a video: Full Tower vs Mid Tower - have full tower case manufacturers lost the plot? There are a huge number of"mid tower" cases which can fit three or more 360mm radiators at the same time. But if you look at "full tower" cases, which are supposed to be bigger, nearly all of those are designed for only 360mm radiators as well - at most they seem to offer one 420mm radiator slot, and even if they say they have multiple slots for 420mm radiators, when you check, they DON'T have the room to have more than one installed at a time! If mid towers are 120mm fan based, going up to 360mm radiators, then surely, by logic, the reason to pay the extra to go to full tower is to switch to quieter and more efficient 140mm fan based systems which can hold three 420mm radiators at the same time? If full tower doesn’t give full 140mm fan and multiple simultaneous 420mm radiator support (at least 3 at the same time), in the same way that mid towers already give full 120mm fan and multiple 360mm radiator support, then what’s the point in them even existing? Why would anyone buy them? Is it that much of an ask for get case manufacturers to add a couple more centimetres of room to fit these in so enthusiasts can have a zero thermal throttling solution to their overclocking top end thread ripper CPU and GPU custom water loops?
When you used a frame cap, were you leaving reflex on or off? I'm curious because for example the 3070 results in Valorant at 6:08 show an fps cap being superior despite 60fps less, and gpu usage being very low in all cases. Yet reflex/boost latency was higher still. This has me wondering if enabling reflex/boost in an fps capped CPU bound scenario could slightly increase latency? vs fps cap + no reflex.
Hey @Optimum Tech I was curious if you have ever heard of a software called Timer Resolution? It is suppose to change windows timings from default 15.625 ms to the set 0.5 ms which decreases input latency (when set up correctly). With this on in game, the user is suppose to turn off raw input. It does feel like my inputs are more responsive and immediate but, I am not sure if it is just placebo or it actually works. I am also not really sure how to test this nor do I have the equipment to test it. This has really peaked my curiosity and I was hoping for some help.
Appreciate the time spent testing and the info. Lets say you play PUBG at 300FPS with GPU usage at less than 50%, so not much latency reduction can be had. Does turning ON the Low Latency mode add input lag?
You should make productivity videos. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that you make this amazing production videos, are pretty good at competitive games and also swole af. Do you even sleep
Would be great to see a 21:9 vs 16:9 Video again but with the newer tech. So is 21:9 with 160hz better than 16:9 with 240hz for FPS games? Two years ago you talked about a nearly unfair advantage of the wider field of view while you just called everything above 144hz a very small advantage. But tech changed and you are more experienced now.
I always cap frame rate. Consistency is more important to me than raw highest fps. Your eyes and hands prefer consistency over time and train themselves based on it. I'd much rather see my frame rate hold a solid 120 than constantly vary from 120 to 150 and back down, or hold a solid 165 than to shoot up to 200 and back down over and over.
I tried capping my frames in BF4 after i saw Battlenonsense's video and the game just feels so much smoother. I use the powersaving tool in Radeon software and have set my min frames to 142 and max frames to 144. Night and day difference.
It gives me anyreusims when I keep running across people who only have a certain amount of hz but they don't frame cap, like 144-240hz but they stream uncapped at like 300fps as if it were helping them. And there's no point trying to tell them.
@@LastAphelion it’s cause the 300 FPS is helping them with lower input delay. 300 FPS makes the game smoother than 144 FPS and easier to aim too. You can lock it 141 and use G-SYNC too for no screen tearing but your getting benefits at leaving it at unlocked at 300 FPS too.
Compared to vsync using an adaptive sync tech saves you a couple of frames worth of latency. Adaptive sync plus a driver framerate cap is the best solution for this imo.
@@rdmz135 adaptive sync plus refresh cap is by far the best setup for playing with syncing enabled, and only those hyper competitive shooters like you mentioned are ever worth playing without it.. and even then you're compromising visual stability for lower latency.
I don’t know how in the table, but I have 2060s, and I have 250-300fps in valorant on ultra in 1920 \ 1080. Thank you very much for the informative video
Depends on the panel. Adaptive sync at 144hz 100% adds input lag. A 360hz gets a lot less due to fps diminishing returns. Capped at 357 with g sync adds 1 ms of input lag. At 240hz you would see noticeably more. 360hz is the pinnacle of high fps/gsync
i cap my fps at 280 in overwatch with reflex + boost. I have a 2060 and 144 hz monitor. Should i disable and reflex + boost and just leave it capped? It seems like capped is best according to this video. I cap at 280 cause its pretty stable, and i heard that unstable framerate can cause variable input lag which can affect aim.
Many contradicting info out there about framerate cap. This debunks it perfectly. Frame cap to a stable framerate below GPU limits = vastly lower input lag. Obviously if the cap is so low as to negate any refresh rate advantage it's kinda pointless but that means the problem lies in GPU performance or graphics settings being too high for your system.
Would've been interesting to test a Windows 10 Exclusive Fullscreen fix as well (Windows broke this feature years ago.. you need a registry fix for it as well as enabling "Disable Fullscreen optimizations" enabled for it to work. This decreases the Input Lag M.A.S.S.I.V.E.L.Y for me..)
@@RequiemOfSolo Hey, to be honest I've not been using it for quite a while now as Windows just keeps breaking it, just look up videos / reddit posts on it, there were many of them, I hope you can find a working method now.
@@TheMasterOfSafari You can still (I'm currently on Windows 11 - 22H2 Build 22621.1) and always have been able to use FSE using literally a single registry key change from a 0 to a 1 without needing to restart and that's worked for years so many I'm not even sure but at least 4 years. But since FSO gives identical performance now and has lots of advantages over FSE it would be silly to use it but it still works.
@@RequiemOfSolo Use Frameview or Presentmon to find out which presentation mode is being used while playing the game. You've almost for surely been using FSO even if you check the "disable" on each game executable but either of those programs will tell you for sure.
low latency shouldnt be enabled in the driver options, always in-game if theres the option to do so which would be nvidia reflex. Apex for example built it into the main game so its always on. In Warzone for example u can set it to On or On+boost. On+boost will always keep your gpu clock high even when youre cpu bound
I think, in competitive gaming, ping is most important. In 100ms ping, you won’t feel your high end pc against an enemy with an old pc and 60hz monitor, with 40ms ping. Ping gives the smoothness of enemy’s movement than pc’s horsepower. If the enemy is significantly higher ping than you, you would see the enemy first and in slow motion- very smooth. Other way around movement is jittery, hard to hit target. However it is true that pc’s horsepower gives smoothness to everything in the game except players in multiplayer games.
Hey man i love ur vids and i wanted to just put a question out there regarding input latency for pcs. I know this isnt the right video for this type of question but here we are😭. My goal here is to understand the best configuration of settings that will make my competitve games run the smoothest with the least input delay. I run on a school laptop. (Intel UHD 620) (10th Gen Core i-5 10210U) with 8 gigs of ram on a 60hz display. So for a game like valorant were i get 80-120 fps, with the lowest i can see during gameplay being around 60 what settings should i be using for the lowest input delay. I've seen your vids on frame capping but im not sure if that actually helps my input delay because what ive been taught is the higher the fps the lower the input delay so with my understanding capping to lets say 75 fps (because thats managable for 99% of a game) would be worse because 80-120 fps would provide lower frametimes but i do need someone to explain that concept to me. Do note my integrated gpu usage is always around 80-98%. I know vsync is just down right bad so i dont touch it but it is tempting as at 80-120 fps, screen tearing is pretty noticable but for that i have the option of RTSS Scanline which works to completley remove the tearing line of the screen with the only requirment being you must be reaching your monitors refresh rate in fps nearly all the time so for me that is 60fps at all times which i do get. The one concern with RTSS Scanline Sync and just capping fps with RTSS in general is ive seen some vids were the supposed benefits of capping fps to your refresh rate only works when you use the in-game fps cap and when the person capped with RTSS they didnt see the added benefit of it. So for RTSS I just want to understand if their frame cap gives you the same benefits of the in-game cap. Also one question with RTSS whats the point of just using the fps cap when you can use Scanline Sync which gives you the added benefit of no screen tearing while also serving as a fps cap. So now Ive come to conclude these 'presets/configurations' for my system. 1. Just bare uncapped 2. Cap to refresh rate / what i can achieve 99% of the time using in-game capper 3. Cap to refresh rate / what i can achieve 99% of the time with RTSS 4. Use RTSS Scanline Sync to eliminate screen tearing (it caps to refresh rate automatically) Now it is up to you guys and @optimumtech to help me decide and answer some of the questions I had. Help will be much appreciated. P.S One suggestion I could give to your input delay vids is have a section dedicated to testing the different input delay methods on a low end system because from what I know is the benefits of lets say nvidia reflex would be much greater on a lower end system as to a higher end system.
Overwatch also has a native setting called "reduced buffering". You should have included it in your test since it probably overlaps/conflicts with those driver settings.
Really nice vid! I have RTX 2070 super and 240hz fhd monitor, I play Valorant, what option is better? Ultra and enable reflex? Boost or not? Lock fps? Can you help me?
Keep in mind people that these benchmarks are best-case senario. Everything impacts input lag, down to the timings and frequency of your RAM. This guy has a 10900k (very fast CPU) and extremely quick RAM. Just keep that in mind!
@@razorclarencecallahan950 yeah if you play with full HD + high settings then maybe. 100% no if you are cpu bound (1024x768 all low) etc.. believe me i've done my testing.
i have gtx 1080 with 87K cpu 240 monitor , so should i enble low latncey mode on Ultra + in game boost and in same time capping the frame rate on 240 would that be the best opstion for getting lowest latnecy possible or i have to chose between the tow capping fps on 240 or enabling the low latncy mode + boost ? i wish you answer me ty , great content bro keep it up
Really interested in hearing.. did you cap the FPS in the driver or in the game when testing? I’ve heard input lag should be lower when doing it at driver level.
As a side note on Valorant - Your framerate in the range with bots loaded in is actually way lower than in match because of inefficient programming. This has been true since launch.
Actually, some games turning low settings get you no extra FPS gains. The message is more so take whatever setting is higher in FPS. If going from high to low only nets 1 fps...then probably just stay on high
I use reflex and RTSS frame cap 4fps below sync (140fps in my case), gsync no vsync and this works best for me to have no tearing, flat frame times and best input lag. Reflex boost just sets power to maximum and I see no difference there. If you have a powerful card, I also recommend running DLDSR if running your game in low quality or performance modes (aka Fortnite) and this upscales and provides nice AA if DLSS is not available in performance modes.
For a long time I've wondered if g-sync affects the input lag from when you start moving the mouse to when things happen on screen. I'd like to have the Razer viper ultimate compared to the g pro ultralight in four ways. One way with both in the wireless mode and second a second time with the cable attached. With and without g-sync to see if there is any difference in latency using g-sync and wireless/cable.
Blurbusters did a lot of testing regarding that subject, I recommend reading their results on blurbusters dot com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/ (dot should be a real dot of course)
At least he shown charts for Apex, Valorant and OW. Where the heck is CS? PS: I know it doesn't support low latency mode and everyone is better off not using that on either manufacturer. just wanted to get it confirmed.
New upload on the second channel also! ruclips.net/video/Z4tbY2xhPF0/видео.html
Finally, I was really seeking for your gameplay moment
𝗯𝗲𝗰𝗮𝘂𝘀𝗲 𝘆𝗼𝘂𝗿 𝗮𝗶𝗺 𝗶𝘀 𝗮 𝗚𝗼𝗱 𝗹𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗹 𝘁𝗶𝗲𝗿
Hello @Optimum Tech I would like to know is it Worth it to cap FPS to my 240hz and use g-sync? Or better get 250-300 FPS w/o cap and g-sync. I play Valorant and CS:GO
@@nicelich unless you’re GPU bound in those games, a frame cap won’t improve your input delay. In regards to G-sync, I personally don’t notice tearing beyond 240Hz, but it’s up to you!
@@optimumtech when is the next stream
Ali, do you think you could revisit the GTX 1080 Ti and compare it to more modern cards that released this year?
I love that you're into the competitive scene so you actually get what needs to be done to get the best possible settings and setup for competitive.
I dare to say that he's the ONLY ONE that could make a video like this in RUclips. Everyother major channel is either a casual player or not a player at all so we have no clue when they talk about gaming competitively.
@@levilima9925 so true
@@levilima9925 I would say Battle(non)sense is the one to also note here, since he has been covering this type of content for quite some time now, and not only talks about System Latency, but also network latency as Network Engineering is one of his areas of expertise.
@@StefanKamer a5hun
@@StefanKamer Well said. He's a youtuber that's growing fast due to his unique usage in different scenarios.
1. More frames = better
2. Maxing out your GPU is bad.
2.1. If you're maxing out your GPU, ultra low latency, or reflex will help reduce the penalty.
3. Framelimiter can be set to a value your GPU can comfortably maintain, improving consistency and avoiding maxing out the GPU.
(4. With G-sync you'll want to limit the FPS to your refresh rate, or ideally slightly below to avoid tearing from running _above_ your g-sync range.)
real mvp
You don't really have to cap fps to your refresh rate for G-sync. You can also cap it much lower. Example, 60 fps to 120hz, 72 fps to 144hz, 60 or 90 fps to 180hz.
In case your pc can't perform as good as your monitor refresh rate. V-sync still working as intended on those fps. So you don't have to suffer stuttering when the fps dips.
Which one is recommended, the framelimiter in-game or GPU software? Thanks
@@SaltyMaud Thank you!
so if my monitor is 170hz and my GPU can get over 200fps but with 99% load then it will be better to just cap the fps to 170hz and enable nvidia reflex(bonus) for lower latency?
TL;DW: Play on low settings and enable reflex boost if available.
Thx
Really? I thought this was some secret setting or cfg you have to set, jeez what a waste of time.
Low settings for old crappy gpus like mine
how about the NULL
or cap your framerate
you are legitimately the only channel I've ever listened to. I undervolted my 5600x + 3070 setup and couldn't be happier with the performance. keep it up
Thats a great setup, thats what I had for a few months. Now I have a 3080 but tbh the 3070 seemed to be a much better combo for the 5600x. Given me a few issues probably related to power or sth bc I only have a 750 watt and the gpu and cpu both have aio’s.
Why did you undervolt it and what did it improve?
@@torodensson1331 Temperatures. You can even increase clock speed depending on the hardware.
Which undervolt settings did u use for gpu. And do you use offset or static voltage ⚡️ on your cpu
@@istachi i use a RTX 3090 at stock and a 5800X. I use a mesh case (air cooling, Noctua fans everywhere at low RPM) with stock frequencies and voltages with no temp issues (and i tested with prime95 and furmark separately for 1 hour each).
Mate, just props to you! This channel is awesome! So much info, so many practical tips here + the asthetics. Greetings from Germany! No time to play and build a gaming rig rn, but man, I have found so much inspiration here for when the time finally comes to build my own rig! Much appreciated!
oh heck yea. the entire reason i built a computer was for competitive shooters. Love that your channel is touching on this
Jeez this man is getting more swole
Nah he just started buying tighter shirts🤣🤣🤣
@xandis 37
Hater be like 😂😂 jk btw
@@animegeek6118 he got fat
@@DuBstep115 if he's the definition of fat damn I want to be fat
@@Yulad_A You can be muscular and still gain weight, its called bulking.
Interesting that the framerate cap looks to be the best method, as long as you have sufficient GPU power to cap it at a high enough FPS. The results at 6:09 is especially interesting with the capped lower frames having lower input lag even though the higher frame tests didn't come close to maxing GPU usage.
good catch
It's probably something to do with frametimes instead
Kinda late to the party, but in valorant uncapping my frame rate and making my gpu run at 95-99% actually reduces the total gpu frame time of mine. Which uncapped site at around 2ms of frame
Time. When I cap it at my monitor frame rate it jumps all the way to 4/5ms. While having to work less and being at like 50/60%. So I’m kinda confused about that.
@@a.d2019 frametime =/= input lag
uncapped(and gpu at 99%) = more input lag
so, having null and reflex off and capping fps is the best?
I’m somewhat amazed that ”battlenonsense” is always abcent from the comments in these types of videos ...he’s the frickin god almighty when it comes to latency etc.
yea this video is still good but battlenonsense just put out a new one on this topic and its wayyy more detailed
Battle(Non)sense is GOD when it comes to settings and new graphics technologies.
Thanks for commenting now I have a new Tuber to follow.
Ikr I was actually expecting him to mention his latest video on this as well
The real deal is a5hun
As a programmer seeing NULL threw me off.
"Card + Nothing? Isn't that the first one?", I asked myself.
This doesn't just happen to programmers, it actually happens to anyone with a basic understanding of English language, believe it or not
One of the few Tech Reviewers that's actually cracked LOL!
hes not cracked. hes just a normal player lmfao.
@@ayvyr compared to linus, bitwit he is a god lol
Your comparison with facts and practical application is definitely something I look forward to all my life when judging anything tech related. Great channel & all the best!
Wow I have a 3070 and this makes me feel good af I’m glad I went with this over a 20 series
Turing appears equally compatible (16 or 20 series)
Reflex feature it's available even on 600 series.
@@R4DIOACT1V3 That’s not what he’s meaning. He’s happy he has a 3070, not happy he can use reflex
@@R4DIOACT1V3 Jesus can y’all read?
@@R4DIOACT1V3 no ones talking about reflex!! Shut up!!!
You could also use to show results with adaptive sync/frame cap, and add CSGO to the chart. ;)
Yes we need more data on csgo
Will I get 144hz on Apex with 1060?
@@rajyavardhansingh4491 one of my friend play apex with 1060 6gb and he can't get 144 fps in 1080p
you should probably check some benchmarks tho
Thank you for being a tech channel that gives Apex love! It's the reason why I subbed to you so long ago!!
the SFF gods have blessed up with a double upload in a day
Who is the other
Whats the other upload?
On his other channel
Sure thing partner. It’s called optimum plays. Just type that in the search bar. It’s got a picture of his adorable cat on there. 3 blocks down. You can’t miss it
Great video, would've loved to seen the differences with vsync, gysnc, and freesync as well.
i just turn them off for competitive, adds too much input lag in my exp
Never use any of them. Job done
Gsync is actually good to use. It syncs your gpu frames within your monitors range. Vsync is the one not to use. But freesync and gsync both will lower input latency by syncing your gpu with your monitor.
@@traaage7782 Free and G-Sync also add a bit of latency. Not as much as V-Sync but it still does
v sync increases the input lag in alot of the games i play
Would love to see a behind the scenes of how you hooked the mouse up!
Nice lil bonus for setting a frame rate cap can sometimes yield lower temps. My gpu was pushing up to 79C w/ unlocked frame rate. I set a cap of 118 (my LG C9 can only do 120hz) and that dropped my temps to 70-72C.
Hey. My laptop refresh rate is 60hz and I'm confused if i had to cap the fps at 60 or not cap it at all as 60fps ain't fair for competitive games.
@@natnaelabayneh7664 unlocking fps will reduce the input lag on competitive game but ur eyes will still only seeing 60fps because ur monitor can only show 60fps/hz so I think its better to cap ur fps at 120 so it still have the benefit with lower input lag and stable latency, but its if ur laptop can handle over 120fps if not then just cap it to 60hz
It’s all about the GPU basically an where the Input of the monitor stands from the Calibration of the CPU and how much every GB of Ram can produce an entire class of Frames overall Well done mate I’ve learned a lot when I watch your videos 😅😊
I just realized yesterday that Nvidia's overlay was causing 3 layers of input lag; desktop capture and the streaming option. Turn them off! Even if you're not streaming, make sure you get them off in the options.
How?
@@K4zuki1 Causes some kind of Vsync-like overlay.
@@DrakesdenChannel no no i mean how to turn it off? I cant find settings to disable capture and streaming
@@K4zuki1 In the Nvidia Overlay (Share/Shadownplay) options - Privacy.
@@DrakesdenChannel Will it have an impact on streaming? Idk why that setting is there
Great video! You should make a video about network and internet settings to address internet latency which is the other big killer for online gaming.
important detail, caping framerate from outside the game will result "always" in more input lag, than a good in game limiter / reflex, and it should be avoided when possible
So you're saying when I cap system wide via Rivatuner I'm going to end up with more input lag than capping via, say, the Escape from Tarkov ingame settings?
@@ГромкаяЧашка yes rtss adds 1-3ms or more depending on cpu core/multi core.
@@Wxstrn does anyone really notice 1-3ms delay?? I mean maybe pro players. Like 30fps to 60fps you can feel the difference and even more so if its 240fps etc.
@@Wxstrn it's worse than that isn't it? I remember seeing that rtss adds a frame of latency since it needs at least 1 frame of a buffer to do what it does. So it could be 7ms at 144hz, but that's why the frame times are so perfect. Because of the buffer.
@@RequiemOfSolo depends on a few other things I think. But yeh. ESP added with hardware. I can tell a difference in monitor input lag & or 1ms vs 4ms response time. I swear.
So from my understanding, the best way to use all your hertz (given you can reach it) cap the fps at your refresh rate along with turning on low latency, and if you can't reach say, 360fps with 360hz, then cap it at a reachable number like maybe 240fps to get less latency.
Basically. Monitor Hz limit is best assuming you can consistently hit it without issues. If not cap somewhere around your average fps, I'd round it down as well. Say you are pulling 134 fps fairly consistently, I'd cap it at 120 instead of 144 so that your fps dips are less noticeable making fps more consistent and less visible stutter over all. Some games have occasional flickering issues that can be resolved by capping fps as well.
@@dampintellect curious if I should use nvidia boost, vs amd freesync premium (rtx 3070 gpu, and freesync monitor)
As well as if I should keep my frames uncapped vs capped with frames going above 300, but falling down to 140-180 in firefights...
PLEASE with your input latency testing setup test borderless windowed vs full screen in todays games in 2022, like Apex, Valorant, Rocket League, etc.
I’ve heard mixed reviews and would like it put to the test FOR SCIENCE!
Keep up the awesome content.
This channel has single handedly inspired me to dial in my rig settings and peripheral choices and get back into shooters and feel competitive in them again.
Thanks from the USA!
great information. exactly the type of videos that need to be out there and how input lag is so critical
You just shattered the whole life of the “csgo at 400fps or nothing” people
Yes and no. Having even higher framerate still helps, it's just that the visual feedback can't be improved, but the action of shooting/turning/moving still happens faster. A input lag detector like LDAT is based on the monitor to show up the change and the monitor(s that we have now) is not as fast (400 or more Hz). However, we're kind of talking of gains of 1ms or lower, so... uhm, yeah.
@@Winnetou17 this is literally measuring input lag of how fast you can see the movements you make appear on screen. There isn’t any other measurement. You don’t turn faster with more fps.
@@OTechnology Just because you don't see a frame does not mean things didn't happen in that frame!
And it's not that you turn faster, is that you turn sooner.
This can be more easily tested (well, already was) on 60 Hz monitors running games at 240+ FPS.
@@Winnetou17 that’s not how that works lol
@@OTechnology Yes, it is, lol
one thing good about reflex is the low input lag even with big fps drops helped alot when in certain fights i would go from say 240fps to 130fps
2 uploads in one day? Thanks Ali!
Always love to wake up to your videos on the way to work !
sad fact : Apex Legends is smoother with 190fps cap vs uncapped
@Falcon_ mine is 144 capped..doesn't matter I won't play
Apex feels like shit anyway
@@xleeepy2614 Oh Okay because u're shit to play it i guess.
@@zerox3410 nope
@@xleeepy2614 ah sorry my mistake just saw ur movement and gotta say u have good movement actually better than mine but i have better aim :) gj man
GREAT VIDEOS.
Quick question about input lag: 1- mice to monitor like "odyssey g7 240hz" VS 2- Mice to Computer USB3 port.
Which one have less input lag? 1 or 2 in 2022.
Is it true Mice to Monitor have best result and less input lag?
(i do not talk about reponse time and keyboard, only input lag.)
I allways used these settings.
It makes gaming so much smoother.
Great analysis.
I had no idea reflex takes precedent over NULL if you have both on, great information to know 👍
I have a suggestion for a video: Full Tower vs Mid Tower - have full tower case manufacturers lost the plot? There are a huge number of"mid tower" cases which can fit three or more 360mm radiators at the same time. But if you look at "full tower" cases, which are supposed to be bigger, nearly all of those are designed for only 360mm radiators as well - at most they seem to offer one 420mm radiator slot, and even if they say they have multiple slots for 420mm radiators, when you check, they DON'T have the room to have more than one installed at a time! If mid towers are 120mm fan based, going up to 360mm radiators, then surely, by logic, the reason to pay the extra to go to full tower is to switch to quieter and more efficient 140mm fan based systems which can hold three 420mm radiators at the same time? If full tower doesn’t give full 140mm fan and multiple simultaneous 420mm radiator support (at least 3 at the same time), in the same way that mid towers already give full 120mm fan and multiple 360mm radiator support, then what’s the point in them even existing? Why would anyone buy them? Is it that much of an ask for get case manufacturers to add a couple more centimetres of room to fit these in so enthusiasts can have a zero thermal throttling solution to their overclocking top end thread ripper CPU and GPU custom water loops?
EPIC INTRO!!
are those 3d rendered??
I could have a thousand frames and 0 ping and I'd still be silver
I know
players dream of silver !
Great video this is info that the masses need to know. Thank You 😊 On a side note love the monitor. What model is it?
LOVED THE INTRO
Thanks for the detailed testing. Good stuff.
Thank u big man tech wizard. I will eat a raw egg in your honor.
I love your channel it’s very useful for things I find i need often.
When you used a frame cap, were you leaving reflex on or off? I'm curious because for example the 3070 results in Valorant at 6:08 show an fps cap being superior despite 60fps less, and gpu usage being very low in all cases. Yet reflex/boost latency was higher still. This has me wondering if enabling reflex/boost in an fps capped CPU bound scenario could slightly increase latency? vs fps cap + no reflex.
I'm curious too
Great video, Would love to see the difference for input lag of mouse + keyboard between plugging to monitor and PC
Hey @Optimum Tech I was curious if you have ever heard of a software called Timer Resolution? It is suppose to change windows timings from default 15.625 ms to the set 0.5 ms which decreases input latency (when set up correctly). With this on in game, the user is suppose to turn off raw input. It does feel like my inputs are more responsive and immediate but, I am not sure if it is just placebo or it actually works. I am also not really sure how to test this nor do I have the equipment to test it. This has really peaked my curiosity and I was hoping for some help.
bruh if you can feel an immediate difference in responsiveness its not placebo, of course timer resolution works :|
@@3jesus3christ3 nope, it could still be placebo. feelings are not facts.
@@master74200feelings are facts though. Where have you been the past 10 years? Off planet?😂😂😂😂
@@timetobargeinandgivemyopin7260 this is a year old comment. go to bed.
@@master74200 I'm gay
Appreciate the time spent testing and the info. Lets say you play PUBG at 300FPS with GPU usage at less than 50%, so not much latency reduction can be had. Does turning ON the Low Latency mode add input lag?
You should make productivity videos. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that you make this amazing production videos, are pretty good at competitive games and also swole af. Do you even sleep
Thank you, I learned something new today!
Would be great to see a 21:9 vs 16:9 Video again but with the newer tech. So is 21:9 with 160hz better than 16:9 with 240hz for FPS games? Two years ago you talked about a nearly unfair advantage of the wider field of view while you just called everything above 144hz a very small advantage. But tech changed and you are more experienced now.
I always cap frame rate. Consistency is more important to me than raw highest fps. Your eyes and hands prefer consistency over time and train themselves based on it. I'd much rather see my frame rate hold a solid 120 than constantly vary from 120 to 150 and back down, or hold a solid 165 than to shoot up to 200 and back down over and over.
Becoming battlenonsense, bravo!
huge props to the testing
I tried capping my frames in BF4 after i saw Battlenonsense's video and the game just feels so much smoother. I use the powersaving tool in Radeon software and have set my min frames to 142 and max frames to 144. Night and day difference.
It gives me anyreusims when I keep running across people who only have a certain amount of hz but they don't frame cap, like 144-240hz but they stream uncapped at like 300fps as if it were helping them. And there's no point trying to tell them.
@@LastAphelion i feel you...triggers my OCD on Twitch all the time too :)
@@LastAphelion it’s cause the 300 FPS is helping them with lower input delay. 300 FPS makes the game smoother than 144 FPS and easier to aim too. You can lock it 141 and use G-SYNC too for no screen tearing but your getting benefits at leaving it at unlocked at 300 FPS too.
@@SpideyDiG yow bro i have 144hz what i must cap my fps lunch settings for fps ? 141 or what
Awesome video man, thank you for your work and for sharing :)
What about adding Gsync or Freesync to the mix? How much latency does Gsync add?
Compared to vsync using an adaptive sync tech saves you a couple of frames worth of latency. Adaptive sync plus a driver framerate cap is the best solution for this imo.
Adaptive sync is only worth using if you're consistently below your refresh rate. Its basically useless in games like Valorant, CSGO and R6.
@@rdmz135 is latency still added when framerate is way higher than refresh rate?
@@rdmz135 adaptive sync plus refresh cap is by far the best setup for playing with syncing enabled, and only those hyper competitive shooters like you mentioned are ever worth playing without it.. and even then you're compromising visual stability for lower latency.
Love your vids, bro
I have so much input lag on valorant I can't even hit a shift walking guy with awp
Amazing video bro!
I like how you give links for GPU's as if they're widely available
They're not gonna be OOS forever.
I don’t know how in the table, but I have 2060s, and I have 250-300fps in valorant on ultra in 1920 \ 1080. Thank you very much for the informative video
Can you test the input lag on AMD card too? I think AMD also has its own latency reduction implementation on driver level
Awesome videos man!!!
Would have liked to see with G-sync enabled, would the results be the same as an fps cap?
Depends on the panel. Adaptive sync at 144hz 100% adds input lag. A 360hz gets a lot less due to fps diminishing returns. Capped at 357 with g sync adds 1 ms of input lag. At 240hz you would see noticeably more. 360hz is the pinnacle of high fps/gsync
Interesting! So maxing out GPU utilization increases the latency. Frame rate cap for the win!? Keep 'em coming! :))
Such an underrated channel.
great explanation! great video! thanks
i cap my fps at 280 in overwatch with reflex + boost. I have a 2060 and 144 hz monitor. Should i disable and reflex + boost and just leave it capped? It seems like capped is best according to this video. I cap at 280 cause its pretty stable, and i heard that unstable framerate can cause variable input lag which can affect aim.
literanlly dude! when i clicked on the video.. and when it popped up and when your face showed up You looked like mark zukerbarg
your channel is super blessed and dope. ty my friend
What if you cap the framerate and use reflex boost or any anti-lag solution at the same time? Would it matter?
Many contradicting info out there about framerate cap. This debunks it perfectly. Frame cap to a stable framerate below GPU limits = vastly lower input lag. Obviously if the cap is so low as to negate any refresh rate advantage it's kinda pointless but that means the problem lies in GPU performance or graphics settings being too high for your system.
Would've been interesting to test a Windows 10 Exclusive Fullscreen fix as well (Windows broke this feature years ago.. you need a registry fix for it as well as enabling "Disable Fullscreen optimizations" enabled for it to work. This decreases the Input Lag M.A.S.S.I.V.E.L.Y for me..)
For me as well. :)
what's the reg fix you need for it? I still check disable on every game, but I feel it doesn't do as much as it use to.
@@RequiemOfSolo Hey, to be honest I've not been using it for quite a while now as Windows just keeps breaking it, just look up videos / reddit posts on it, there were many of them, I hope you can find a working method now.
@@TheMasterOfSafari You can still (I'm currently on Windows 11 - 22H2 Build 22621.1) and always have been able to use FSE using literally a single registry key change from a 0 to a 1 without needing to restart and that's worked for years so many I'm not even sure but at least 4 years.
But since FSO gives identical performance now and has lots of advantages over FSE it would be silly to use it but it still works.
@@RequiemOfSolo Use Frameview or Presentmon to find out which presentation mode is being used while playing the game. You've almost for surely been using FSO even if you check the "disable" on each game executable but either of those programs will tell you for sure.
Im missing the drawback here. If Low Latency Mode is good, why isnt it default? Whats the difference between on and ultra?
low latency shouldnt be enabled in the driver options, always in-game if theres the option to do so which would be nvidia reflex. Apex for example built it into the main game so its always on. In Warzone for example u can set it to On or On+boost. On+boost will always keep your gpu clock high even when youre cpu bound
I think, in competitive gaming, ping is most important. In 100ms ping, you won’t feel your high end pc against an enemy with an old pc and 60hz monitor, with 40ms ping. Ping gives the smoothness of enemy’s movement than pc’s horsepower. If the enemy is significantly higher ping than you, you would see the enemy first and in slow motion- very smooth. Other way around movement is jittery, hard to hit target. However it is true that pc’s horsepower gives smoothness to everything in the game except players in multiplayer games.
Hey man i love ur vids and i wanted to just put a question out there regarding input latency for pcs. I know this isnt the right video for this type of question but here we are😭.
My goal here is to understand the best configuration of settings that will make my competitve games run the smoothest with the least input delay.
I run on a school laptop. (Intel UHD 620) (10th Gen Core i-5 10210U) with 8 gigs of ram on a 60hz display.
So for a game like valorant were i get 80-120 fps, with the lowest i can see during gameplay being around 60 what settings should i be using for the lowest input delay.
I've seen your vids on frame capping but im not sure if that actually helps my input delay because what ive been taught is the higher the fps the lower the input delay so with my understanding capping to lets say 75 fps (because thats managable for 99% of a game) would be worse because 80-120 fps would provide lower frametimes but i do need someone to explain that concept to me. Do note my integrated gpu usage is always around 80-98%.
I know vsync is just down right bad so i dont touch it but it is tempting as at 80-120 fps, screen tearing is pretty noticable but for that i have the option of RTSS Scanline which works to completley remove the tearing line of the screen with the only requirment being you must be reaching your monitors refresh rate in fps nearly all the time so for me that is 60fps at all times which i do get. The one concern with RTSS Scanline Sync and just capping fps with RTSS in general is ive seen some vids were the supposed benefits of capping fps to your refresh rate only works when you use the in-game fps cap and when the person capped with RTSS they didnt see the added benefit of it. So for RTSS I just want to understand if their frame cap gives you the same benefits of the in-game cap. Also one question with RTSS whats the point of just using the fps cap when you can use Scanline Sync which gives you the added benefit of no screen tearing while also serving as a fps cap.
So now Ive come to conclude these 'presets/configurations' for my system.
1. Just bare uncapped
2. Cap to refresh rate / what i can achieve 99% of the time using in-game capper
3. Cap to refresh rate / what i can achieve 99% of the time with RTSS
4. Use RTSS Scanline Sync to eliminate screen tearing (it caps to refresh rate automatically)
Now it is up to you guys and @optimumtech to help me decide and answer some of the questions I had. Help will be much appreciated.
P.S
One suggestion I could give to your input delay vids is have a section dedicated to testing the different input delay methods on a low end system because from what I know is the benefits of lets say nvidia reflex would be much greater on a lower end system as to a higher end system.
Yes, now I can get near instant reflexes in the single player games I enjoy like RDR2.
Which one is recommended for limiting the frame rate? The in-game framelimiter or the GPU framelimiter? Thanks
Overwatch also has a native setting called "reduced buffering". You should have included it in your test since it probably overlaps/conflicts with those driver settings.
This video mentions nothing about Vsync, FreeSync, GSync, Enhanced Sync or FastSync though.
Low input lag is nice, but not if you have tearing
For those interested in the results with these techniques go check out battlenonse latest video
Freesync and GSync doesn't impact the latency since it's the screen that tries to adjust to the framerate of the GPU, not the other way around.
@Falcon_ i have 144hz monitor should i disable my freesync and just enable anti-lag?
@Falcon_ should I use freesync on my monitor when playing Csgo and Valorant?
@Falcon_ thanks man
Really nice vid! I have RTX 2070 super and 240hz fhd monitor, I play Valorant, what option is better? Ultra and enable reflex? Boost or not? Lock fps?
Can you help me?
Cap dps to 300 and use reflex and ultra on Nvidia control panel in low legency
Keep in mind people that these benchmarks are best-case senario. Everything impacts input lag, down to the timings and frequency of your RAM. This guy has a 10900k (very fast CPU) and extremely quick RAM. Just keep that in mind!
Yeah. No one should expect the same exact result. This is more of just giving a general idea of what these settings could do for you.
I learned something new, being extremely tech savvy , you never fail to amaze me with your knowledge as well as gaming skills.
So if i play CSGO only, ultra latency mode off/on/ultra? Which is the correct answer? Trying to find it out for a while now.
i tryed all of them and ultra feels most responsive to me.
Ultra
No. Ultra is only for gpu bound scenarios. Read blur busters forum about the subject. Csgo is cpu bound. Use ON or OFF.
@@chuNami5000 you gave no link or the subject name so I'm still gonna suggest OP the Ultra option since it lowers the most amount of Latency.
@@razorclarencecallahan950 yeah if you play with full HD + high settings then maybe. 100% no if you are cpu bound (1024x768 all low) etc.. believe me i've done my testing.
i have gtx 1080 with 87K cpu 240 monitor , so should i enble low latncey mode on Ultra + in game boost and in same time capping the frame rate on 240 would that be the best opstion for getting lowest latnecy possible or i have to chose between the tow capping fps on 240 or enabling the low latncy mode + boost ? i wish you answer me ty , great content bro keep it up
Really interested in hearing.. did you cap the FPS in the driver or in the game when testing? I’ve heard input lag should be lower when doing it at driver level.
Driver level adds 1-3 ms.
Two questions, with framed cap, do you mean having reflex boost off?
Also, what about camping and having reflex boost on?
You didn't touch on Vsync on or off as well as VRR.
thanks a bunch for the content
what so capping framerate reduces input lag? I've always been told the opposite
Less load on gpu
As a side note on Valorant - Your framerate in the range with bots loaded in is actually way lower than in match because of inefficient programming. This has been true since launch.
Actually, some games turning low settings get you no extra FPS gains. The message is more so take whatever setting is higher in FPS. If going from high to low only nets 1 fps...then probably just stay on high
you dont lose fps, but you lose latency, because your gpu takes more time to render all details, in competitive scenarios things like this matter
You did the tests on Apex and Overwatch, but showed clips of Valorant. Why? Whhhy?
Thanks for the info video. Worth the watch.
I'm still surprised by the amount of people who bought a 144hz or higher monitor and used it at 60hz for months or years without noticing.
Lol
😂😂
I was like. . . Shit I'm so much better! Checks settings (60hz)
Me:🤔🤔🤔
I use reflex and RTSS frame cap 4fps below sync (140fps in my case), gsync no vsync and this works best for me to have no tearing, flat frame times and best input lag. Reflex boost just sets power to maximum and I see no difference there.
If you have a powerful card, I also recommend running DLDSR if running your game in low quality or performance modes (aka Fortnite) and this upscales and provides nice AA if DLSS is not available in performance modes.
For a long time I've wondered if g-sync affects the input lag from when you start moving the mouse to when things happen on screen.
I'd like to have the Razer viper ultimate compared to the g pro ultralight in four ways.
One way with both in the wireless mode and second a second time with the cable attached. With and without g-sync to see if there is any difference in latency using g-sync and wireless/cable.
Thanks for including Overwatch in your video!
What about if you have a frame cap and enable reflex / NUUL?
Blurbusters did a lot of testing regarding that subject, I recommend reading their results on blurbusters dot com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/
(dot should be a real dot of course)
win32 foreground priority is also neat:
2A Hex = Short, Fixed , High foreground boost.
29 Hex = Short, Fixed , Medium foreground boost.
28 Hex = Short, Fixed , No foreground boost.
26 Hex = Short, Variable , High foreground boost.
25 Hex = Short, Variable , Medium foreground boost.
24 Hex = Short, Variable , No foreground boost.
1A Hex = Long, Fixed, High foreground boost.
19 Hex = Long, Fixed, Medium foreground boost.
18 Hex = Long, Fixed, No foreground boost.
16 Hex = Long, Variable, High foreground boost.
15 Hex = Long, Variable, Medium foreground boost.
14 Hex = Long, Variable, No foreground boost.
(regedit) use at your own risk
He said "valorant ,cs ,over watch " and uses apex settings 👏🏻
At least he shown charts for Apex, Valorant and OW. Where the heck is CS?
PS: I know it doesn't support low latency mode and everyone is better off not using that on either manufacturer. just wanted to get it confirmed.