Oops! My math was a bit off at 5:30; I forgot the truncation. 1+1+ [1/2] = 1+1+0, which makes the numerator 24, not 30. This was an error in scripting; that’s on me. My bad!
Agility Build Demi-Fiend: Assigned gifted status in elementary school, regarded as a genius in high school, but then graduates with none of the skills for facing challenges when their sheer innate talent hits a wall. Never makes real friends, and either shoots up a mall or movie theater, or disappears into a job stocking shelves, or maybe managing a burger king. Magic Build Demi-Fiend: Peaks at college, parties their way to a 3.8 in an impressive major and makes tons of friends. Friends move after graduation, but demi fiend lacks the work ethic to actually get any of the jobs his major would have qualified for. Ends up teaching social studies at a high school. Strength Build: Peaks at 40, is widely considered a success, but breaks during his midlife crises and murders his family unless he makes a pact with Lucifer. Luck Build: Never peaked. Ever.
**In theory.** Take Japanese High School, being Hard (Students) on Number play. **In practice.** Tale Atlus. Imagine their "Mathical Programmer" making Malbolge out of RNG. In wanting "statistical punishment" be part of the mechanics. Clearly.
There is very similar energy to the british tank design meme at work here, I feel it. "Sir, the escape formula can bottom out!" "Add a 2, put it in sideways" "Magic attacks are scaling too much!" "Subtract the player's level, put a radio in the space"
i think the silliest part about level hurting you in the macca you toss isn't that it's part of it, because it's actually the type of situation where you'd _expect_ level to be used like that. after all, you'd expect that type of mechanic to be more punishing later in a game, because you get more and more money later in the game and so a moderate amount of money to toss in the early game would be _paltry_ in the endgame. and, well, if your rpg isn't the type where the player can just decide to turn off exp gain ( and even if it is, since it's not like it's a bad idea to give players minor benefits for doing a low-level run ) then their level is naturally going to correlate to their progress in the game, and you can just use that instead of setting aside a variable for this very specific and very minute purpose that you have to manually increment after certain story events no, the silliest part is that they had this _very real_ justification for using level in a negative way in one of their formulas ... and yet they just made it toss a percentage of your macca anyway, and level's negative impact in it is that dumb "your stats suck more when you level up!" thing. the worst part is that this probably _is_ the most sensical place to use that kind of thing since, yeah, losing a higher percentage of your macca as you get further into the game _does_ still make some sort of sense - it makes the whole mechanic less punishing in the early game, after all - but that's kinda tossed out by the fact that they pulled this shit _everywhere_ and so it really does not come across as anything other than their obsession with making stats mean less and less with level
You know what other game is like this? Old Fire Emblem games (1-5) especially 4 - Genealogy of the Holy War. People found that simply switching the order of your inventory changes the enemy attack pattern which is so odd in an SRPG. We say as a meme that Kaga, the series creator who micromanaged over the old games, was pretty crazy with his formulas. Later Fire Emblem games don't have such odd AI, and people like Mangs and Dondon151 optimized low turn count playthroughs.
tbf.. that has a certain ammount of logical sense.... as using a readily available and (at first untill people start digging) unlikely to be discoverd pool of "natural" yet limited RNG has some benefit. a lot of games did(and probably still are) using user input as their RNG seed.
Your not only one of the few sources of smt3 formulas in RUclips, you are one of the few sources of megaten fomula period, like there literally no source of megaten V, strange journy or similar, heck i dont even think i never see a persona formula video
I'm honestly shocked they didn't put in a Sin somewhere in this game that you've found so far. What's with Atlus games and this sort of math bullshit, Etrian Odyssey's got a similar thing going on with its formulas.
@@RobinandZephyr .... Can't help but make a horrible meme joke out of this. But in case of "soh cah toa"... You must have been (Math) Triggered, by the horrible abuse of (Atlus) Triangles. And this is probably 'tame', compared to real mathematical hell's mathematicians went crazy under.
Great content! Is there any calculator program for all of this? It seems like a fun project if there isn't other people working on something like that already.
Something of a subjective point, and I would hate to come off as the bearer of what is good and what is bad. But maybe something I can make work with some finagling
Let's see if I can sus out how the RNG call in "Macca Dropped" works, and from what I can tell NMarko's Discord message at 16:07 is not correct, or at least isn't giving all the correct terms. Specifically I'm trying to figure out what the heck NMarko is calling "decimal values." Because "decimal" values can mean two things: either it's being read as a power of 10 calculation, or it's being read as a hexidecimal floating point number. The best example I can find is documentation by Michael Kohn, wherein he describes the process by which the PlayStation 2 draws a polygon on the screen. In this calculation the console splits a 32 bit number into 28 bits on the left and 4 bits on the right. This gives us a value between 0 and 268,435,456 to the left of the decimal point, and sixteen possible values to the right of the decimal point. I don't think Nocturne is doing this, because the numbers you were getting for Macca drops weren't swinging by the billions.
If I'm understanding your comment correctly, couldn't it be a hexadecimal floating if the bit split was done in an inverse way? I'm not a computer genius by any means, but I do know enough math to sort of parse together what you're explaining here. The whole Macca formula in general just makes my head run in circles, trying to decipher what the purpose was behind making such a confusing equation. It looks like the Devs wanted a level of rng where you would be locked into a certain range within your total macca that you could toss, but surely there must have been a much simpler work around than THIS! The numbers don't correlate to anything meaningful and just feel like another way indirectly punish the player for choosing to level in spite of the increased difficulty relatively if you chose not to level up instead.
Quick unrelated question when you inflict enemies with panic and they start dropping cash do you get their money or do you lose it from the enemy after battle is over
Good question, but no. Crit rate is determined based on the original accuracy of the move, not the modified rate. Accuracy/aversion boost will only affect accuracy and evasion; critical rate will remain static. However, that does mean you will crit more often against lower agility targets
Someone is actually trying to restore some of the cut content on the smt nocturne hd steam port, apparently there’s some unused cutscenes from an unused early game side quest
Soooo... I remember someone experimenting and saying with a full luck build they were getting way more free stats from magatamas on level up, was that just confirmation bias?
Ok so idk much about programming but doesn't an rng SEED refer to giving the number generator a set value to ensure the same result each time which begs the question of why not hard code a value for the money dropped instead of using rng?
An RNG seed, in regards to something like this, is essentially an ever-changing value that determines what the game's randomness is going to be. The game is never truly random, it just does certain calculations based on where the code is at that given moment. Think of it like a clock, spinning so quickly you can't possibly read it. At the start of any turn in the game, you stop that clock. All calculations - what moves will hit/miss, what damage they'll do, how the enemy will respond, whether they'll crit, etc. - are all done based on the hour, minute, second, millisecond, and microsecond of the exact point in which you stopped the clock. For *most* stuff in the game, the clock being at, say, 15 hours, 34 minutes, and 37.925 seconds determines whether the main calculation will be multiplied by 0.9, 1.1, or something in between. For panic money, however, the game converts that clock value to the number 153437925 and mangles that value into something usable. Beautiful, isn't it?
@@RobinandZephyr cool thanks for the explanation, I've been trying to get into programming at a slow pace for the last few months now and needless to say I love this sort of content and would like to see more of it in future please keep up the good work merry Christmas and happy new year from Canada :)
Maniax Chronicle works exactly the same as the base game, save for two things: - Raidou replaces Dante, and his “Raidou the Aeon” skill provides a +50% damage boost and gives his physical skills piercing damage, whereas Dante’s equivalent skill only provides the damage boost - Lucifer can cast Diarahan once per battle
Oops! My math was a bit off at 5:30; I forgot the truncation. 1+1+ [1/2] = 1+1+0, which makes the numerator 24, not 30. This was an error in scripting; that’s on me. My bad!
I am a programmer and I seriously want to meet whoever made these formulas and ask WTF they were thinking.
Me who is 30 levels deep in an all luck build watching this 😐
the best attribute ❤
The best use of Luck is to surprise the enemy that would be thinking you're playing seriously
I think I get it now.
Demi fiend peaked at 40 years old. Thank you Atlus, now release official Demi Fiend x Pixie merch
Agility Build Demi-Fiend: Assigned gifted status in elementary school, regarded as a genius in high school, but then graduates with none of the skills for facing challenges when their sheer innate talent hits a wall. Never makes real friends, and either shoots up a mall or movie theater, or disappears into a job stocking shelves, or maybe managing a burger king.
Magic Build Demi-Fiend: Peaks at college, parties their way to a 3.8 in an impressive major and makes tons of friends. Friends move after graduation, but demi fiend lacks the work ethic to actually get any of the jobs his major would have qualified for. Ends up teaching social studies at a high school.
Strength Build: Peaks at 40, is widely considered a success, but breaks during his midlife crises and murders his family unless he makes a pact with Lucifer.
Luck Build: Never peaked. Ever.
Where's our boi Vitality Build?
What insane mathmatician did Atlus hire for this game?
"We'll just divide until the number is logical" is the most bass-ackwards thing I've ever heard
**In theory.** Take Japanese High School, being Hard (Students) on Number play.
**In practice.** Tale Atlus. Imagine their "Mathical Programmer" making Malbolge out of RNG. In wanting "statistical punishment" be part of the mechanics. Clearly.
There is very similar energy to the british tank design meme at work here, I feel it.
"Sir, the escape formula can bottom out!" "Add a 2, put it in sideways"
"Magic attacks are scaling too much!" "Subtract the player's level, put a radio in the space"
i think the silliest part about level hurting you in the macca you toss isn't that it's part of it, because it's actually the type of situation where you'd _expect_ level to be used like that. after all, you'd expect that type of mechanic to be more punishing later in a game, because you get more and more money later in the game and so a moderate amount of money to toss in the early game would be _paltry_ in the endgame. and, well, if your rpg isn't the type where the player can just decide to turn off exp gain ( and even if it is, since it's not like it's a bad idea to give players minor benefits for doing a low-level run ) then their level is naturally going to correlate to their progress in the game, and you can just use that instead of setting aside a variable for this very specific and very minute purpose that you have to manually increment after certain story events
no, the silliest part is that they had this _very real_ justification for using level in a negative way in one of their formulas ... and yet they just made it toss a percentage of your macca anyway, and level's negative impact in it is that dumb "your stats suck more when you level up!" thing. the worst part is that this probably _is_ the most sensical place to use that kind of thing since, yeah, losing a higher percentage of your macca as you get further into the game _does_ still make some sort of sense - it makes the whole mechanic less punishing in the early game, after all - but that's kinda tossed out by the fact that they pulled this shit _everywhere_ and so it really does not come across as anything other than their obsession with making stats mean less and less with level
You know what other game is like this? Old Fire Emblem games (1-5) especially 4 - Genealogy of the Holy War. People found that simply switching the order of your inventory changes the enemy attack pattern which is so odd in an SRPG. We say as a meme that Kaga, the series creator who micromanaged over the old games, was pretty crazy with his formulas. Later Fire Emblem games don't have such odd AI, and people like Mangs and Dondon151 optimized low turn count playthroughs.
THAT IS SO MUCH LIKE NOCTURNE, you can change what moves enemies do by doing different moves yourself, even if they have the same effect.
tbf.. that has a certain ammount of logical sense.... as using a readily available and (at first untill people start digging) unlikely to be discoverd pool of "natural" yet limited RNG has some benefit. a lot of games did(and probably still are) using user input as their RNG seed.
Your not only one of the few sources of smt3 formulas in RUclips, you are one of the few sources of megaten fomula period, like there literally no source of megaten V, strange journy or similar, heck i dont even think i never see a persona formula video
Awesome work! Enjoyed the video. Happy New Year!
Thanks for the hard work
My pleasure!
Thank you for making these videos.
Bruh getting shived by a mannekin
Amazing video! I really love this style of video
Thank you! Glad you like it!
@@RobinandZephyr youre the only channel i know that makes math interesting
@@muffet1536
I wonder if we can get arbitrary code execution in Nocturne hmm
Mathematicians be like: yeah, this game is on fire 😍
Why the hell does levelling up hurt you so much in this game? It feels like it defeats the point of playing an rpg
Could not possible tell ya. (cries)
At least things don't level up with you. *looks at ff8*
Must be some meta Atlus shenanigans
@@camharkness I'd rather have enemies level up with me than actively punishing myself for just trying to build my character
@@bubalackgaming8892 *looks at ff8 and dead island*
I'm honestly shocked they didn't put in a Sin somewhere in this game that you've found so far. What's with Atlus games and this sort of math bullshit, Etrian Odyssey's got a similar thing going on with its formulas.
if Atlus started using sin and cos in their formulas, I mighta killed myself
@@RobinandZephyr .... Can't help but make a horrible meme joke out of this. But in case of "soh cah toa"... You must have been (Math) Triggered, by the horrible abuse of (Atlus) Triangles. And this is probably 'tame', compared to real mathematical hell's mathematicians went crazy under.
Thank you for this before I dumped a bunch of points in luck..... again.
Fantastic content 👌
Glad you think so! I'm doing my best!
_why does so many things decrease with level wtf_
This was a great dumpster fire. Trying to figure out how a brain of an Atlus programmer operates is something we need more of.
You mentioned in the Magic Damage video about how a Magic build is self-sufficient. Any way we could see that?
I could kinda play with something like that, see if a script works
Great content! Is there any calculator program for all of this? It seems like a fun project if there isn't other people working on something like that already.
I made one during my demonless run for personal use; I can see about throwing it up on a google doc if you want!
@@RobinandZephyr that sounds good! It would be really useful as more people join the community though nocturne hd
ok so basically, don't level up.
got it
How about a video on various builds and their viability?
Something of a subjective point, and I would hate to come off as the bearer of what is good and what is bad. But maybe something I can make work with some finagling
Let's see if I can sus out how the RNG call in "Macca Dropped" works, and from what I can tell NMarko's Discord message at 16:07 is not correct, or at least isn't giving all the correct terms.
Specifically I'm trying to figure out what the heck NMarko is calling "decimal values." Because "decimal" values can mean two things: either it's being read as a power of 10 calculation, or it's being read as a hexidecimal floating point number.
The best example I can find is documentation by Michael Kohn, wherein he describes the process by which the PlayStation 2 draws a polygon on the screen. In this calculation the console splits a 32 bit number into 28 bits on the left and 4 bits on the right. This gives us a value between 0 and 268,435,456 to the left of the decimal point, and sixteen possible values to the right of the decimal point.
I don't think Nocturne is doing this, because the numbers you were getting for Macca drops weren't swinging by the billions.
If I'm understanding your comment correctly, couldn't it be a hexadecimal floating if the bit split was done in an inverse way? I'm not a computer genius by any means, but I do know enough math to sort of parse together what you're explaining here. The whole Macca formula in general just makes my head run in circles, trying to decipher what the purpose was behind making such a confusing equation. It looks like the Devs wanted a level of rng where you would be locked into a certain range within your total macca that you could toss, but surely there must have been a much simpler work around than THIS! The numbers don't correlate to anything meaningful and just feel like another way indirectly punish the player for choosing to level in spite of the increased difficulty relatively if you chose not to level up instead.
Actually, this should've been done by ZoomZike, the guy behind Identifying Luck in Mario Party. /s
Do we know how “damage” from healing skills is calculated?
Quick unrelated question when you inflict enemies with panic and they start dropping cash do you get their money or do you lose it from the enemy after battle is over
If an enemy drops money because of panic, I do believe you get it. If you drop it, it’s gone forever
Since accuracy effects crit rate does that mean, sukukaja and sukunda are basically crit buffs and debuffs?
Good question, but no. Crit rate is determined based on the original accuracy of the move, not the modified rate. Accuracy/aversion boost will only affect accuracy and evasion; critical rate will remain static.
However, that does mean you will crit more often against lower agility targets
Someone is actually trying to restore some of the cut content on the smt nocturne hd steam port, apparently there’s some unused cutscenes from an unused early game side quest
Soooo... I remember someone experimenting and saying with a full luck build they were getting way more free stats from magatamas on level up, was that just confirmation bias?
Ok so idk much about programming but doesn't an rng SEED refer to giving the number generator a set value to ensure the same result each time which begs the question of why not hard code a value for the money dropped instead of using rng?
An RNG seed, in regards to something like this, is essentially an ever-changing value that determines what the game's randomness is going to be. The game is never truly random, it just does certain calculations based on where the code is at that given moment.
Think of it like a clock, spinning so quickly you can't possibly read it. At the start of any turn in the game, you stop that clock. All calculations - what moves will hit/miss, what damage they'll do, how the enemy will respond, whether they'll crit, etc. - are all done based on the hour, minute, second, millisecond, and microsecond of the exact point in which you stopped the clock.
For *most* stuff in the game, the clock being at, say, 15 hours, 34 minutes, and 37.925 seconds determines whether the main calculation will be multiplied by 0.9, 1.1, or something in between. For panic money, however, the game converts that clock value to the number 153437925 and mangles that value into something usable.
Beautiful, isn't it?
@@RobinandZephyr cool thanks for the explanation, I've been trying to get into programming at a slow pace for the last few months now and needless to say I love this sort of content and would like to see more of it in future please keep up the good work merry Christmas and happy new year from Canada :)
Merry christmas and happy new year from the states!
@@RobinandZephyr yeah this sounds pretty good nothing wrong with this. (Unironic)
What about the Chronicle Edition?
Maniax Chronicle works exactly the same as the base game, save for two things:
- Raidou replaces Dante, and his “Raidou the Aeon” skill provides a +50% damage boost and gives his physical skills piercing damage, whereas Dante’s equivalent skill only provides the damage boost
- Lucifer can cast Diarahan once per battle
@@RobinandZephyr Root of Evil has a Dekaja effect as well.
@@Orbitthemaster Shit you right
I always forget about that one
@@RobinandZephyr It's barely noticeable since Lucifer starts to spam Dekaja and Dekunda halfway through the fight as well. lol
@@Orbitthemaster Right, like, you've probably given up on trying to buff by that point anyway. LOL
So luck is the worst stat? huh.