Fascinating! I went through my angry atheist phase from my twenties to my thirties. Now I'm a 40 year old atheist that studies the Bible with more vigor, and more joy than I ever did as a believer. Though I don't believe it to be true, the Bible k's more. Important in my life than it has ever been before.
Who knows, maybe the multiverse is true and the Bible events are true but in a different universe and some how a portal opened up and the scripture ended up in our universe
I recently bought the NRSV on your suggestion and it’s great! I have a question though, what does it mean when it talks about the “priestly” and “non-priestly” versions of the Genesis stories?
It's cool to see you here! There's an idea called the 'documentary hypothesis' that multiple sources composed different parts pf the five Books of Moses. The Priestly Source is one of those, seemingly a later editor that combined multiple stories and sometimes multiple versions of the same story into one document.
@@JJMcCulloughThe concerns of Jewish priests: ritual, number, calendars, purity taboos. So the Genesis 1 story is considered "priestly" because of the emphasis on a divinely instituted week (six work days plus a sabbath). When in Genesis 7 God says to take 7 pairs of clean animals and 1 pair of unclean animals (when the prior chapter said just *two* of each kind), it's probably priestly. When you're reading Numbers and in the middle of an exciting story you get instructions for how to sacrifice a red heifer to purify after contact with the dead...priestly. Essentially this class within the Jewish people were trying to root their ritual traditions within the stories of the Torah. They also probably played a large role in editing the books (Ezra - to whom the canon is traditionally attributed - is both a priest and a scribe, though he may be a legendary representative figure of the people who copied and taught the biblical books.) Hope that helps!
I am not a Christian. I follow Jainism (ancient religion of India). Most eastern religions also claim ancient humans had a longer lifespan than we do today. The claim is valid as our lifespan is allotted in the # of breaths; not years, days, or seconds. Despite humans having access to modern-day healthcare, turtles / tortoise have a longer lifespan (200 years) than humans as their breathing rate = 5 BPM average. There are many underwater species (e.g. whales) that also live longer than humans. If anything human lifespan has decreased and is still decreasing because of the medical industry (profit making). As we consume more breaths, the Oxygen reacts with Hydrogen to form Free Radicals, which reduces our lifespan. So now the question is what contributes to increased breathing rate and therby increased Oxygen inhalation? The factors include increased population, competition, greed, sexual activities, capitalism / slavery, obesity, smoking, fear, anxiety, depression, etc. These factors were not prevalent in the ancient times, so human beings were able to cultivate their breaths and they also had more # of breaths allowed to them.
@@mshah1193 Nice try, but no cigar. First of all, scientists control for environmental factors [like smoking and all the bits you mentioned]. Life span calculations are complex, but species-dependent. True, PART the reason that turtles /tortoises live longer is based on their Basal Metabolic Rate. Therefore they consume less oxygen, but they still have the same problems of free radicals as any other eukaryotic organism. Besides, comparing Anapsid survival rates to mammals like humans is comparing apples to oranges. Anapsids are poikilotherms [no metabolic temp regulation], whereas mammals and birds are homeothermic. The last means that humans etc actively use energy to keep our body temperature within narrow limits. Plus mammals and bird have relatively large brains compared to reptiles and this too takes a lot of energy. [Glucose "burned" by oxygen in the Krebs cycle]. Next fallacy. Whales have the same sort of life spans as us: Orcas and blue whales around 90 years, but other species like the Buluga, only 35-50 years. Humans can live about 130 years, but that is VERY exceptional, 70 to 90 years is more common. In any case, a hundred-odd years is nothing like the claims of the bible [up to 900 years] No, the medical industry has increased life spans, not decreased them. The average age of humans in the pre-medical science era was about 45-60 years at best. You would occasionally get a lucky 80 year old. That is why the ancients had child marriages, because chances are you might die before you children became adults, hence 12 to 14 yo was usual for those days. Lastly a claim of increased life span has nothing to do with it being true. Evidence is necessary. In the bible it was claimed Jesus turned a few rolls and a handful of fish that could feed 5000. Do you think that claim is credible without good evidence? All religions love to tell yarns to impress the locals. Especially miracles and other dramatic, if dubious happenings like resurrection and reincarnation. "Slavery was not prevalent in ancient times? Are you joking? Anyway, that is enough for now. I suggest your hypotheses needs further work.
I remember thinking that there were two Enochs, one that was the son of Cain and the other, more famous one that was in the lineage between Adam and Noah. I didn't note the emphasis on the 7th position, but I did wonder why someone many generations down the lineage of Seth would name their child after a son of Cain.
Its interesting that there were two and that the later could be named the same without reference to the earlier while only being "after" by timing. There were unfortunately descendents of Abraham believing they were "righteous" by inheritence while ignoring those prophets and God repeatedly making clear that all are sinners. To say length of ages was made up because other texts of other people groups did that ignores science but that is understandable since much so-called science the last few centuries presupposes the truth of ancient religions and ignores evidence. Just think of the multiple causes of death and decay in this universe and understand that we as humans have caused many attempting to solve problems we have denied being the cause of.
Thanks. I've always been curious if there's any sense at all in those numbers. At least there's something you can extract from wasting time perusing them. How do you know that the Sumerian list influenced Genesis rather than the other way around? Perhaps the influence was the other way. Does anyone know why many of the numbers are divisible by 5?
Really fascinating I always wondered why the names of Cains descendants and Seths line were similar. I always wondered if the ages were representative of dynasties of some sort. That doesn't totally fit because then you have overlapping dynasties-but a monarchal/patriarchal type society might have looked very different anyways. Has that idea been suggested elsewhere?
No. The Bible isn't "accurate" in the modern sense and IMO it was never intended to be. It's not a history book. It's a collection of religious texts from very long ago. Religious texts have the express purpose of conveying points about religion through mythology, song, pontificating, etc.
CAN YOU PLEASE talk about the term Kavod, translated as the "Glory of god" . Why does this glory behavior looks like a machine, you can see it coming, fire, great sounds, Clouds or smog , Shiny (kinda metallic) . In Exodus and in Ezekiel this does not sound like an etheral thing if you keep the term kavod instead of Glory.
I couldn't find any attestation of 2 syllables being correct; I assumed it's a niche regionalism of some kind but if you can find it again and aren't disinterested in doing so can you send me a link?
Humankind's span of life or age "shrank" in the scriptures simply because a new calendar was developed by the Chaldeans, a calendar that was based on the solar system of 365 days. Before this time, the age of people was computed by the lunar or seasonal calendars. If we were to divide the ages of some of the men who lived 800 or 900 years by 12, we would find that they lived to 75 or 80 years old. And by dividing the ages of those who lived 300 to 500 by the four seasons, we would discover that they lived a normal long span of a 120 to 125yrs. We have to remember there were different writers and not all was written at the same time. They weren't just "making up stuff" as modern skeptics might assume. And last, when we read "and God took him," this is an Aramaic idiom meaning, "he died peacefully."
Given how much religion tries to convince us that Humanity is inherently wicked and sinful, I'm honestly surprised that we are said to descend from the "righteous" lineage. Wouldn't it be more consistent for the story if we were all descended from Cain, the first murderer, instead?
Wouldn't it be pretty tough to change all of the copies? How would later editors do that? Was every scroll in the same city place at the same time? Isn't that a lot like saying later editors changed the Greek manuscripts of the New Testament? Pretty tough to do when they're all over. Wouldn't it make more sense that the earliest scrolls we have were the erroneous versions, and we just haven't found the earlier versions that match what we have today? Are we just waiting for those to be found to prove the current septuagint and masoretic text the older tradition?
These texts weren’t all over though, especially within Judaism which was centered around Jerusalem. If the priests in Jerusalem changed something, they held the most authoritative manuscripts and most later copies would be based on their texts. And there almost certainly were a variety of manuscript traditions going around that eventually died off. Like in the Dead Sea scrolls, sometimes we have variations that support Septuagint readings, some times they support masoretic readings, and sometimes a unique reading not found in either text. Look for a more authoritative source in this than me for the next claim because I’m a bit fuzzy on it, but I’m fairly certain that the farther back in time our manuscripts go, the more variations we see and it was actually that the various text traditions were homogenized as some spread more rapidly than others or some had readings that were more preferable. And I don’t see how it makes more sense that our earlier sources are more erroneous than more recent sources. If our earliest manuscripts have a certain reading or variety of readings, then we see a new reading show up a couple hundred years later and eventually become dominant, why would you assume that what’s now dominant is original? It doesn’t follow that a reading being more popular makes it more original, especially when these different textual traditions come from different locations and it’s essentially geopolitically coincidence that certain traditions became more popular than others as the most important cities were exporting their texts more than less important cities.
Fundamentalists never read Genesis 1, that claims that plants, which require the Sun's warmth, were created on day 3, before the Sun was created on day 4 --- the pre science bible authors never knew about the Absolute Zero temperature of outer space. Each of the first 4 days had " evenings and mornings ", which require sunrises and sunsets to demarcate the division of daytime from nighttime --- yet the Sun wasn't created until day 4. " In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth ", which includes the billions of stars and planets discovered by the James Webb and Hubbell Telescopes, including our own Sun and Moon --- yet Genesis 1:16 says: " And God made two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser one to rule the night, and [ as a complete afterthought ] he made the stars also " While Genesis 1 claims that the Earth was created first, astrophysical science has established that the Sun formed first, and then the cooling gaseous matter formed the planets thereafter, including our own Earth. Somehow, 20 to 25% of Christians, and also all Seventh Day Adventists among others, still believe that Genesis 1 is history and scientific. Most Christians are forced to accept that Genesis 1 is: " Only metaphorical "
Ehh, fundamentalists "never read" those parts? That's a bold assertion. In fairness, even Answers in Genesis directly addresses this. Their answer: the localized cosmic light ordering Day/Night before the Sun. However, if you're dealing with the primordial age of Creation, simply saying "God's Creative power" achieved it is likely enough to answer it. If he can speak everything into being, surely he can speak...plants into being without the sun? As to the rest, it's not surprising they disagree with mainstream science. That's a critical part of the problem.
There is something called a divine light, God allowed for a divine light to be in earth Also the ancient Israelites could have cared less about what photosynthesis was, the main purpose the book is to provide laws and commandments for them In the very first few versus it says God created light so like light existed in earths atmosphere due to the divine light God gave it
@@xplicitgoofy1015 Yes, the reason why vegetation isn't in Antarctica is due to lack of heat from the Sun. The pre science bible authors never knew about the Absolute Zero temperature of outer space. Please use the search bar for: " Ancient Hebrew cosmology " It's not about the light.
@@xplicitgoofy1015 It's about the vast grasslands and millions of Pine and Deciduous forests and the lush tropical jungles needing the Sun's warmth ; it isn't only about the full spectrum sunlight.
@@dvonzosch461 I know and I get your view point but if a theists believes God created the universe and a earth that originally was formless, they 100% believe God could sustain the plant life using a divine light and then eventually giving that job and task to the sun For one it really is irrelevant to me, the Bible is a beautiful source of art and the imagery in it is just awesome to read, I believe in God because for me it’s far more plausible that a creator created everything than everything appearing from nothing Just makes me go insane trying to imagine and think what form I was in before birth and try to remember things before birth, I just can’t remember, I just popped into existence, now yes there is biological processes of course but it’s insane to think what were we in before birth and even after death what’s stopping us from returning into this same state of life but in a different universe? The universe is a fantastic and magnificent world that it makes sense to me and all powerful and intelligent creator made this all
It's certainly probable that people didnt live 20,000 years. Especially when writing about past kings It's nice to make them live longer so your reign has more legitimacy. Between mistranslation, cultural misunderstandings, different calendars, and humans being known proficient liars... you probably shouldnt believe many of those ages. Or just pray and ask god and let me know what he says 😂
So what value does the Bible have? If it's just a collection of stories told by various authors in various times, then how does it have the influence that it has over the centuries? I'm agnostic regarding the Bible but Deistic in belief.
It was because they were copper blood based. Some were Gold and Silver based. Better minerals like Mono-Atomic Gold gives you stronger/higher vibrational consciousness and a total body upgrade reversing the aging process!
Ya May want to search the signature of God You give false testimony. I’m the one who knows truth. I’m the expert of written history. You trust the writing of ancient writers. Ow do you decide if they’re lying. We have proof we found cane art and other writings. We know they’re the authorities of proof. All DNA leads back to what the Bible says.
It has nothing. Absolutely nothing about the writers. It’s about the accuracy of prophecy. There are super computer codes in the Torah that’s written in original Hebrew. There is a man named Johnathon Cahn. If you want truth listen to him on Trump assassination If you find anything interesting then listen to the second one. God tells us that our blood screams to us from the ground There are nearly 100 scientific facts men didn’t know about until the last few centuries. I don’t think you care. I believe you’re a troll who only wants to insult me. Then if I disagree you want to belittle me and call me a fool because we have different opinions. God calls people like yourself Fools. I don’t because I used to be a very foolish fool. I laughed and mocked people who believed in God. So I set out to prove them wrong. Only to become a believer. Who’s a fool. You say Matter created intelligence I say intelligence created matter. There are many names of world leaders imbedded in complex codes throughout the first five books. Good luck I hope you become wise
Useful Charts did an interesting assessment of the age of the world. Using real events compared to the biblical accounts, he set the creation of the world exactly 4000 years before the restoration of the temple during the Maccabees. Coincidence?
Coincidence? Certainly not! Especially when you recognize that the whole of the Old Testament (including the Apocrypha) is the story of Hebrew/Jewish origins and identity, setting themselves over and apart from all their neighbors from Egypt to Persia to Greece, and finally Rome itself, and a polemic against the other nations' gods and traditions vis-à-vis the supremacy of YHWH. This is, of course, an oversimplification.
This all sounds really interesting until you remember that more than one person can have the same name. This also fails to acknowledge that the lineage given in Genesis 4 accurately records an exponential decay curve in lifespan. It’s not just a random or drastic drop. Lastly, notice how we don’t have any copies of these other versions. This is all assumption and guesses based on those assumptions about the text.
I agree with you. When you say “we don’t have any copies of these other versions” are you referring to the ancient Sumerian / Aramaic versions of the text?
I know I should ignore it, sorry, but please learn to pronounce lineage properly. It's Lin-ee-age (with the ee pronounce like the ey in key, and the age sounding more like the idge in midge).
Yes, please use other parts of your made up story to prove this one rediculous part of your made up story. Analyzing how the names are close together... just wow.
I find trying to put the Bible at the bottom of the trusted list as being in very bad taste. Instead of saying it’s a copy of other’s work, why don’t you say other’s work are a copy of the Bible? Which to me is probably a more accurate statement. Satan is a copycat that tries to substitute what God does with his own version to fool as many as possible. We have that in the end times in revelation, where it says that all on the earth will worship him (Satan) whose names are not written in the book of life. In order to do that he mimic’s Christ and throws in error with truth. Only those who have full trust in God’s holy word will make it through those times with their faith in tact.
“It’s all made up” well there you have it folks. Thousands of stories across multiple times frames cultures and areas, all just making things up! The architecture, the written words, the engravings, the beliefs and customs- all just made up for no reason at all except material ones! Wow! Thanks Dan, incredible plain boring view - typical of academia
Dan, this is an opinion and speculation piece on your part. For believers the explanation of longer years could be linked to the fact that genetics were without the "mutational" negatives that we see today and (speculating) that post-flood could have included a change in the ozone layer - known as the shield for life on Earth.
Believing in a deity with no actual evidence, believers can make up whatever they want to justify those beliefs, especially since the conclusion is already made-up.
@@izregistered There is zero evidence of any deity. None, zero, zilch, nada. You just fell for the stories you've been told by other misinformed people. Claiming "god made it" is the laziest possible explanation for anything.
@@Spiritof_76In my perspective, considering an accidental origin and nothingness seems to reflect a greater degree of laziness. It's important to clarify that I'm not asserting a divine creator with the statement "god made it." Rather, I'm offering an explanation based on what a believer might attribute to the prolonged lifespans before the biblical flood. The patterns I discern in nature present what I consider to be more than negligible evidence supporting the idea that our origins are rooted in something transcendent. While we may hold differing views, I respect the possibility of agreeing to disagree.
@@scambammer6102 If by any chance you come back here in a few years from now and apologize for your comment, I'll accept it. We are living in a time that what we consider possible is beginning to change. If you think being humble about this, and realizing your understanding of reality might be incomplete, is sort of like being a fool, you will actually end up being a fool.
@bzanotti Yeah, nobody lived to 900 years old. It's fiction. The Biblical writers were borrowing ideas from older religious myths. --------------------------------------------------------- *The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.*** *Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.*** ***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service. *"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"* *"Sumerian Is the World's Oldest Written Language | ProLingo"* *"Sumerian Civilization: Inventing the Future - World History Encyclopedia"* *"The Myth of Adapa - World History Encyclopedia"* Also discussed by Professor Christine Hayes at Yale University in her 1st lecture of the series on the Hebrew Bible from 8:45 to 14:30 minutes, lecture 3 from 28:30 to 41:35 minutes, lecture 4 from 0:00 up to 21:30 minutes and 24:00 up to 35:30 minutes and lecture 7 from 24:20 to 25:10 minutes. From a Biblical scholar: "Many stories in the ancient world have their origins in other stories and were borrowed and modified from other or earlier peoples. *For instance, many of the stories now preserved in the Bible are* ***modified*** *versions of stories that existed in the cultures and traditions of Israel’s* ***older*** *contemporaries.* Stories about the creation of the universe, a cataclysmic universal flood, digging wells as land markers, the naming of important cultic sites, gods giving laws to their people, and even stories about gods decreeing the possession of land to their people were all part of the cultural and literary matrix of the ancient Near East. *Biblical scribes freely* ***adopted and modified*** *these stories as a means to express their own identity, origins, and customs."* *"Stories from the Bible"* by Dr Steven DiMattei, from his website *"Biblical Contradictions"*
@@epicofatrahasis3775 The fact that the biblical texts may be inspired or based on older stories does not exclude the possibility of a greater life span on those ancient times, even though you might find that hard to believe or consider.
@@bzanotti The basic laws of biology have not changed. We know that in past ages life expectancy was much shorter because of infection, disease, lack of sanitation, lack of adequate protective clothing, etc. They did not have access to some supernatural technology that would have prolonged their lives to unheard-of lengths.
People did live that long before the flood. It was biological change after the fall. We were originally built to live forever but this changed after the fall. Genesis 6 A world gone wrong. Sorry you can’t change the word
I don't know where this guy is getting his information, but it certainly is not biblical. Everyone, please read the bible; no matter who is giving the information. Read it for your self and don't takes someone else's word for it. The bible says what it says, for a man to contradict it is false doctrine and not from God.
Dan's not addressing any doctrine. Even when you say you're saying that "it says what it says," you're imposing your own conception of what it means onto it, instead of trying to understand what the original, mostly anonymous, authors intended.
It’s almost like Genesis is, and hear me out…. mythical. You can be a Christian and concede that. Just say it’s allegory, it’s fine. Thanks for clearing things up again, Dan.
there's no reason to think the original writers thought it was allegory. And if it is allegory, the meaning is just subjective opinion, as is identifying the parts that are allegory. Allegory = fiction.
@@scambammer6102He wasn't actually saying that. --- the original bible author's viewpoint was what the Sumero Babylonian cosmology was. Had the bible authors been supernaturally inspired by an all powerful and all knowing deity, they would have been able to describe the universe truthfully. Evangelicals can't handle Genesis 1, which claims that plants, that require the Sun's warmth, were somehow created on day 3, before the Sun itself was created on day 4. It was mythical.
I think the bible is total bunk from beginning to end. I am just disagreeing with his point about allegory. Allegory is an intentional literary device. That isn't what the bible writers were doing. They thought they were conveying god's word.
Then everything in the bible can be mythical. From Adam to Jesus. If Jesus is the "second Adam" and Adam was just mythical, this has serious consequences for the gospels and Christianity. Its just picking and choosing what u like and what not.
@@KhoaNgo-sr4zq We have stories written by fallible superstitious men claiming gods created the heavens and earth. Which story do you sheepishly believe in?
It does seem that Tolkien was tapping into that same line of mythological thought, that the righteous are long lived. Even if some fall out of righteousness, like Sauron and Saruman, they still retain their longevity because of their lineage.
In deed, @@autonomouscollective2599! In the case of the Númenóreans, there's an explicit link between their rampaging wickedness and their decreasing lifespan.
@@autonomouscollective2599 I remember in Catholic school being taught the decreasing lifespans of the Pentateuch patriarchs was an illustration of how original sin was steadily corrupting the world--Adam lived longer than Methuselah, who lived longer than Noah, who lived longer than Moses, etc. I haven't looked at it closely enough to see if that actually tracks, but it's possible Tolkien, a devout Catholic, was taught something similar.
The ancestors of snakes DID have legs, as they evolved from lizards during three different events. In the DreamTime animals can always speak to humans (“DreamTime” here referring to any mythic age, not just Australian Aboriginal’s period).
@davidweihe6052 Thing is, yous guys always pull that one about ‘ah but whataboutism the ancestors of snakes huh?’ _but never point to ongoing evolution, such as the development of infrared-sensing pit eyes in snakes (exactly parallel to how optical eyes developed) or the more recent discovery of infrared-sensing guard hairs in prey animals which who knows where _that's_ going? There's just no inquisitiveness about the world among the dogmatic, they want it all spoon-fed
It would sound like a fiction nowadays but those things actually happened considering that a lot of things can't explain like how the humans got intelligent and how languages were formed also why this so-called "fiction" is spreading in different languages too
@@scrappycoco6282 actually none of those things actually happened....No one has ever lived to be 950 yrs old...no one ever walked on water...a donkey has never had a conversation with a person....Jesus is never coming back....witches are not real....no one ever was swallowed by a fish and lived inside the fish for 3 days.....people with mental disorders are not possessed by evil demons....just childish nonsense.
Without permanent monuments to record the passing years, a nomadic tribe could remember only as far back as its oldest member. As the sole surviver of one's generation, that person might just as well have been 90 as 900.
How wrong you are. It is well known that some tribes in the world would remember their ancestors for hundreds of years. Sometimes centuries later reburying many generations of ancestors in one tomb. For that to happen the dead must have been highly valued and regarded and remembered from generation to generation
The Qur'an copies these myths but puts them into the mouth of God: "We certainly sent Noah to his people, and he remained among them a thousand years minus fifty years, and the flood seized them while they were wrongdoers." (29:14)
Let me see if I understand this properly, you have the people at AiG, and CMI, pretty much using the lineages present in Genesis to come up with the 6000 year old figure. You're saying that the amount of time was "creatively" altered?
Its almost like second temple Judaism was heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism. Oh wait, that is actually what happened with some heavy influence of cannabis to boot.
Excellent as always. Am I correct in that the flood has Adam dying n the year of the flood or just before? Guessing god did not want to drown his first created human?
Dan, do you have a good book recommendation that covers the editing and redactions that were carried iut by King Josiah aan the Jerusalem priests? I keep hearing about this sweeping rewrite of the Torah and would like to study the subject. Thanks.
One more reason which Dan didn't get into. The Hebrew used a seasonal solar calendar they borrowed from other cultures. They had no linear calendar spanning centuries as we do today. They dated their own lives to either a ruler or an event, such as a major flood. They probably could not have even told you when their grandparents were born, let alone beyond that time.
The idea that ancient man lived longer is a common trope: mythical ancestors, closer to creation and the gods, lived long lives in the image of their creators. But as men gradually distanced themselves from the divine, they degenerated and their lives shortened. We see this with the Hebrews and Sumerians, but also with the Greeks (myth of the races), the Hindus (cycle version with different ages - men to come will live a very long time again) and doubtless many others.
Well, the basic argument, when it comes to nonsensical things like this or the various contradictions in The Bible, is that everything must be true (literally) in The Bible, or nothing in The Bible can be depended upon. Well, all I know is, when I want information that is 100 percent accurate, I go to scriptures written by extremely primitive men ( NOT God) who had NO scientific knowledge whatsoever, put their own opinions and prejudices in their writings, and based a good deal of what they wrote on the myths and traditions of other civilizations. The Bible is not "infallible" or "inerrant" because The Bible is NOT God (because ONLY God is infallible and inerrant).
Old Testament writers often gravitated to the number 7 as it was considered good luck, maybe because there were seven visible celestial bodies in the skies. So, to add to the bit about Lemech and the number 7, the bible says "If Cain is avenged seven times, Then Lamech seventy-seven times!" *and then Lamech supposedly lives to be 777 years old?* If that doesn't SCREAM mythology then I don't know what does.
Much of the Old Testament is fully made up and fictional, and I'm a Bible believer, but have to be honest and accept the facts. IMO, a man and a woman were placed on earth many thousands of years ago, from a habitable planet, and given basic instructions by God, but God does NOT intervene in our daily lives and does not answer every prayer and request, we're mostly on our own to determine our own lives and destinies.
God created all life on earth including humans these human were not first man only Adam was When God crated Adam God didn't just crate Adam hearted Adam from a part of the earth God also place part of God own soul in Adam the other humans he crated God crated humans in the same way as God had created all other life it why Adam and his desenent lived for 900 years.
How about Enoch, Jared and Methuselah not being borrowed from Cain's line, and it just so happens they have similar names, and this shows as a witness reflecting the long ongoing battle of satan and his seed trying to imitate and infiltrate the righteous customs and institutions that God has set up, constantly trying to pollute or exterminate the Godly seed. (Isa 14:13-15, Matt 2:16-18, Exo 7:8-23, Exo 8:1-8, 2 Corinth 11:13-15, 2 Thess 2:1-12, Exo 1:15-22, Psa 106:34-39. setting up the apostate church, false religions and the ungodly blasphemous world government/s Rev 2:9,12,13, Matt 13:24-30,36-43, Acts 20:28-31, Rev 13, 17 and 18. Just like God gives power to His witnesses; Rev 11:3-13, so does the enemy to do false miracles Rev 13:4-15, Rev 16:12-14. The enemy has his apostate religious institution which is the wh*re and God has His chaste Holy Bride the Church/Israel; Rev 17 and Rev 12, Rev 19:7-9, Eph 5:26-28, 2 Corinth 11:2, Joel 2:15,16.) Methuselah dying the year of the flood does not automatically mean that he died in the flood. The sons of Seth are the godly seed, and are called Bnaiy Elohim (Sons of God), the line from whom the appointed seed of the woman will come to crush the serpent's head aka Christ (Gen 3:15, Psa 91:13, Isa 53:5,10, Col 2:14,15, Gen 4:25,26, Gen 6:1,2) This line was righteous and it would not be becoming of the Lord to slay the righteous with the wicked and cause the righteous to succumb to the punishment set for sinners.(Gen 18:25, 2 Kings 22:1,2,10-20, 2 Kings 23:1-3,25, Revelation 7:3). The flood came on the 17th Day of the 2nd Month (Gen 7:11,12), so this gives the perfect amount of time for God to honour and deal kindly with His righteous servants, allowing them to take their rest most likely in the 1st month and have a proper burial deserved of a saint. (Gen 15:15 as opposed to 1 Kings 2:5,6, 2 Kings 23:15-20). Whether Jared and Lamech expired the year of the flood in the Samaritan Pentateuch, the same reasoned principle applies with that of Methuselah. The Masoretic says Lamech expired at 777yrs and went to rest before his father Methsuelah, which backs up my aforementioned righteous principle act which God was doing by putting them to sleep before the cup was filled for the wicked. Methsuelah being the oldest to live (969yrs) and doing so up until the flood was a witness to the world; as his name can mean (without the vowel marks) "his death shall send out/send forth/shoot out, set free/let down" i.e The Flood 🌧💦🌊
Well , Watson what do u think of my performance. Well Sherlock u had the poor audience spellbound, but I must admit I was not impressed. U gave yourself up. U forgot that God said _"Man shall now live till 120 years " Yes, my dear Sherlock ,God made that drastic cut in lifespan from 800 to 900 years to a mere 100 years. One more Beatitude _ Blessed are those who live to see 100 years.! !!!!
I think this channel and Christianity for me has run it's course I think I'm free and no longer have interest and I stop all these channels from taking over my youtube feed
Gen.6.3 - And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. [kjv] Gen.6.3 - Then GOD said, "I'm not going to breathe life into men and women endlessly. Eventually they're going to die; from now on they can expect a life span of 120 years." [msb]
@@juanausensi499 - yes, Vampire Hunter D takes place in the past, before the flood, not in the future. I think we solved this mystery today. Well done!
How about considering Genesis 6:3 where the command to limit the age of man is given? Prior to this, it could be interpreted that God's spirit (from the breath of life breathed into Adam) is the cause of the long age.
I had this idea that the ages of the patriarchs age was or it a calendar of sorts and this some kind of countdown or something of the sort. Like numerological cypher of sorts. Thoughts?
Do you feel that the flood story is a replication of the ancient Sumerian flood myth and further reinforced by the constant flooding of the Nile Delta?
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
I appreciate how informative you are on biblical texts, everytime I'm learning something new. Love the podcast as well! Thank you
Because they don't eat McDonald's 😉
Fascinating! I went through my angry atheist phase from my twenties to my thirties. Now I'm a 40 year old atheist that studies the Bible with more vigor, and more joy than I ever did as a believer. Though I don't believe it to be true, the Bible k's more. Important in my life than it has ever been before.
Who knows, maybe the multiverse is true and the Bible events are true but in a different universe and some how a portal opened up and the scripture ended up in our universe
I recently bought the NRSV on your suggestion and it’s great! I have a question though, what does it mean when it talks about the “priestly” and “non-priestly” versions of the Genesis stories?
It's cool to see you here!
There's an idea called the 'documentary hypothesis' that multiple sources composed different parts pf the five Books of Moses. The Priestly Source is one of those, seemingly a later editor that combined multiple stories and sometimes multiple versions of the same story into one document.
I agree with BradyPostma. It's always cool to see a much bigger RUclipsr still watch and interact with small channels!
@@BradyPostma what does the adjective “priestly” refer to?
@@JJMcCulloughThe concerns of Jewish priests: ritual, number, calendars, purity taboos. So the Genesis 1 story is considered "priestly" because of the emphasis on a divinely instituted week (six work days plus a sabbath). When in Genesis 7 God says to take 7 pairs of clean animals and 1 pair of unclean animals (when the prior chapter said just *two* of each kind), it's probably priestly. When you're reading Numbers and in the middle of an exciting story you get instructions for how to sacrifice a red heifer to purify after contact with the dead...priestly.
Essentially this class within the Jewish people were trying to root their ritual traditions within the stories of the Torah. They also probably played a large role in editing the books (Ezra - to whom the canon is traditionally attributed - is both a priest and a scribe, though he may be a legendary representative figure of the people who copied and taught the biblical books.) Hope that helps!
A really good book that details the sources of the first five books is "Who Wrote the Bible" by Richard Friedman.
The old adage: "don't let the facts get in the way of a good story!" :-)
I am not a Christian. I follow Jainism (ancient religion of India). Most eastern religions also claim ancient humans had a longer lifespan than we do today. The claim is valid as our lifespan is allotted in the # of breaths; not years, days, or seconds. Despite humans having access to modern-day healthcare, turtles / tortoise have a longer lifespan (200 years) than humans as their breathing rate = 5 BPM average. There are many underwater species (e.g. whales) that also live longer than humans. If anything human lifespan has decreased and is still decreasing because of the medical industry (profit making).
As we consume more breaths, the Oxygen reacts with Hydrogen to form Free Radicals, which reduces our lifespan. So now the question is what contributes to increased breathing rate and therby increased Oxygen inhalation? The factors include increased population, competition, greed, sexual activities, capitalism / slavery, obesity, smoking, fear, anxiety, depression, etc. These factors were not prevalent in the ancient times, so human beings were able to cultivate their breaths and they also had more # of breaths allowed to them.
@@mshah1193 Nice try, but no cigar. First of all, scientists control for environmental factors [like smoking and all the bits you mentioned]. Life span calculations are complex, but species-dependent.
True, PART the reason that turtles /tortoises live longer is based on their Basal Metabolic Rate. Therefore they consume less oxygen, but they still have the same problems of free radicals as any other eukaryotic organism. Besides, comparing Anapsid survival rates to mammals like humans is comparing apples to oranges. Anapsids are poikilotherms [no metabolic temp regulation], whereas mammals and birds are homeothermic. The last means that humans etc actively use energy to keep our body temperature within narrow limits.
Plus mammals and bird have relatively large brains compared to reptiles and this too takes a lot of energy. [Glucose "burned" by oxygen in the Krebs cycle].
Next fallacy. Whales have the same sort of life spans as us: Orcas and blue whales around 90 years, but other species like the Buluga, only 35-50 years. Humans can live about 130 years, but that is VERY exceptional, 70 to 90 years is more common. In any case, a hundred-odd years is nothing like the claims of the bible [up to 900 years]
No, the medical industry has increased life spans, not decreased them. The average age of humans in the pre-medical science era was about 45-60 years at best. You would occasionally get a lucky 80 year old.
That is why the ancients had child marriages, because chances are you might die before you children became adults, hence 12 to 14 yo was usual for those days.
Lastly a claim of increased life span has nothing to do with it being true. Evidence is necessary. In the bible it was claimed Jesus turned a few rolls and a handful of fish that could feed 5000. Do you think that claim is credible without good evidence?
All religions love to tell yarns to impress the locals. Especially miracles and other dramatic, if dubious happenings like resurrection and reincarnation.
"Slavery was not prevalent in ancient times? Are you joking?
Anyway, that is enough for now. I suggest your hypotheses needs further work.
Is there a source we can see that the editing actually happened in regards to both septugiant and masoretic texts?
It is widely available look it up on google
I remember thinking that there were two Enochs, one that was the son of Cain and the other, more famous one that was in the lineage between Adam and Noah. I didn't note the emphasis on the 7th position, but I did wonder why someone many generations down the lineage of Seth would name their child after a son of Cain.
same here. interesting that the later account washed the evil out of the lineage.
@@scambammer6102 Must've been something in those flood waters...
Its interesting that there were two and that the later could be named the same without reference to the earlier while only being "after" by timing. There were unfortunately descendents of Abraham believing they were "righteous" by inheritence while ignoring those prophets and God repeatedly making clear that all are sinners. To say length of ages was made up because other texts of other people groups did that ignores science but that is understandable since much so-called science the last few centuries presupposes the truth of ancient religions and ignores evidence. Just think of the multiple causes of death and decay in this universe and understand that we as humans have caused many attempting to solve problems we have denied being the cause of.
Thanks. I've always been curious if there's any sense at all in those numbers. At least there's something you can extract from wasting time perusing them.
How do you know that the Sumerian list influenced Genesis rather than the other way around? Perhaps the influence was the other way.
Does anyone know why many of the numbers are divisible by 5?
lin-e-age, three syllables
Really fascinating I always wondered why the names of Cains descendants and Seths line were similar.
I always wondered if the ages were representative of dynasties of some sort. That doesn't totally fit because then you have overlapping dynasties-but a monarchal/patriarchal type society might have looked very different anyways. Has that idea been suggested elsewhere?
Very interesting Dan! Thank you.
excellent
Is any of the Bible accurate?
According to this guy it is not ....he acts like a bible expert but in reality he just makes up most that he says
@@bspallet874 that's funny. You know most people who have actually studied these things agree with Dan on most topics right?
No. The Bible isn't "accurate" in the modern sense and IMO it was never intended to be. It's not a history book. It's a collection of religious texts from very long ago. Religious texts have the express purpose of conveying points about religion through mythology, song, pontificating, etc.
@@travis1240 anyone that associates themselves with science will agree with him ..he is just a RUclipsr
@@bspallet874 I’ve researched what he says and it’s all been true. He’s a Bible scholar with lots of education and experience to back up his claims.
Righteous......and incredibly strong swimmers. Unless there is a missing chapter referencing Noah's dinghy.
It’s not surprising if you look at the Bible the same way you look at the Iliad and the Odyssey. =)
CAN YOU PLEASE talk about the term Kavod, translated as the "Glory of god" . Why does this glory behavior looks like a machine, you can see it coming, fire, great sounds, Clouds or smog , Shiny (kinda metallic) . In Exodus and in Ezekiel this does not sound like an etheral thing if you keep the term kavod instead of Glory.
How have I gone 56 years without hearing someone pronounce lineage with 2 syllables instead of 3? They’re both correct, I checked. 😜
I couldn't find any attestation of 2 syllables being correct; I assumed it's a niche regionalism of some kind but if you can find it again and aren't disinterested in doing so can you send me a link?
What about the claim that the numbers in the Sumerian king list are the numbers in Genesis using a numerical base of 60?
Humankind's span of life or age "shrank" in the scriptures simply because a new calendar was developed by the Chaldeans, a calendar that was based on the solar system of 365 days. Before this time, the age of people was computed by the lunar or seasonal calendars. If we were to divide the ages of some of the men who lived 800 or 900 years by 12, we would find that they lived to 75 or 80 years old. And by dividing the ages of those who lived 300 to 500 by the four seasons, we would discover that they lived a normal long span of a 120 to 125yrs. We have to remember there were different writers and not all was written at the same time. They weren't just "making up stuff" as modern skeptics might assume. And last, when we read "and God took him," this is an Aramaic idiom meaning, "he died peacefully."
Given how much religion tries to convince us that Humanity is inherently wicked and sinful, I'm honestly surprised that we are said to descend from the "righteous" lineage. Wouldn't it be more consistent for the story if we were all descended from Cain, the first murderer, instead?
Wouldn't it be pretty tough to change all of the copies? How would later editors do that? Was every scroll in the same city place at the same time? Isn't that a lot like saying later editors changed the Greek manuscripts of the New Testament? Pretty tough to do when they're all over. Wouldn't it make more sense that the earliest scrolls we have were the erroneous versions, and we just haven't found the earlier versions that match what we have today? Are we just waiting for those to be found to prove the current septuagint and masoretic text the older tradition?
These texts weren’t all over though, especially within Judaism which was centered around Jerusalem. If the priests in Jerusalem changed something, they held the most authoritative manuscripts and most later copies would be based on their texts. And there almost certainly were a variety of manuscript traditions going around that eventually died off. Like in the Dead Sea scrolls, sometimes we have variations that support Septuagint readings, some times they support masoretic readings, and sometimes a unique reading not found in either text.
Look for a more authoritative source in this than me for the next claim because I’m a bit fuzzy on it, but I’m fairly certain that the farther back in time our manuscripts go, the more variations we see and it was actually that the various text traditions were homogenized as some spread more rapidly than others or some had readings that were more preferable.
And I don’t see how it makes more sense that our earlier sources are more erroneous than more recent sources. If our earliest manuscripts have a certain reading or variety of readings, then we see a new reading show up a couple hundred years later and eventually become dominant, why would you assume that what’s now dominant is original? It doesn’t follow that a reading being more popular makes it more original, especially when these different textual traditions come from different locations and it’s essentially geopolitically coincidence that certain traditions became more popular than others as the most important cities were exporting their texts more than less important cities.
The Catholic Church "fiddled with ages".
Fundamentalists never read Genesis 1, that claims that plants, which require the Sun's warmth, were created on day 3, before the Sun was created on day 4
--- the pre science bible authors never knew about the Absolute Zero temperature of outer space.
Each of the first 4 days had " evenings and mornings ", which require sunrises and sunsets to demarcate the division of daytime from nighttime
--- yet the Sun wasn't created until day 4.
" In the beginning God created the heavens and the Earth ", which includes the billions of stars and planets discovered by the James Webb and Hubbell Telescopes, including our own Sun and Moon
--- yet Genesis 1:16 says:
" And God made two great lights, the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser one to rule the night, and [ as a complete afterthought ] he made the stars also "
While Genesis 1 claims that the Earth was created first, astrophysical science has established that the Sun formed first, and then the cooling gaseous matter formed the planets thereafter, including our own Earth.
Somehow, 20 to 25% of Christians, and also all Seventh Day Adventists among others, still believe that Genesis 1 is history and scientific.
Most Christians are forced to accept that Genesis 1 is:
" Only metaphorical "
Ehh, fundamentalists "never read" those parts? That's a bold assertion. In fairness, even Answers in Genesis directly addresses this. Their answer: the localized cosmic light ordering Day/Night before the Sun. However, if you're dealing with the primordial age of Creation, simply saying "God's Creative power" achieved it is likely enough to answer it. If he can speak everything into being, surely he can speak...plants into being without the sun?
As to the rest, it's not surprising they disagree with mainstream science. That's a critical part of the problem.
There is something called a divine light, God allowed for a divine light to be in earth
Also the ancient Israelites could have cared less about what photosynthesis was, the main purpose the book is to provide laws and commandments for them
In the very first few versus it says God created light so like light existed in earths atmosphere due to the divine light God gave it
@@xplicitgoofy1015 Yes, the reason why vegetation isn't in Antarctica is due to lack of heat from the Sun. The pre science bible authors never knew about the Absolute Zero temperature of outer space.
Please use the search bar for:
" Ancient Hebrew cosmology "
It's not about the light.
@@xplicitgoofy1015 It's about the vast grasslands and millions of Pine and Deciduous forests and the lush tropical jungles needing the Sun's warmth ; it isn't only about the full spectrum sunlight.
@@dvonzosch461 I know and I get your view point but if a theists believes God created the universe and a earth that originally was formless, they 100% believe God could sustain the plant life using a divine light and then eventually giving that job and task to the sun
For one it really is irrelevant to me, the Bible is a beautiful source of art and the imagery in it is just awesome to read, I believe in God because for me it’s far more plausible that a creator created everything than everything appearing from nothing
Just makes me go insane trying to imagine and think what form I was in before birth and try to remember things before birth, I just can’t remember, I just popped into existence, now yes there is biological processes of course but it’s insane to think what were we in before birth and even after death what’s stopping us from returning into this same state of life but in a different universe? The universe is a fantastic and magnificent world that it makes sense to me and all powerful and intelligent creator made this all
Better question, million $ question: how sane is a 99 year old man who circumcises himself?
Could those people even be called human compared to those of us walking the Earth today?
Yes. They were exactly the same people we are today. (Homo Sapiens Sapiens).
Amazing! 🤯
900 years, 365 years is a solar year.. this is all navigation into the stars. more writings on astro-theology.
Well, that is super interesting.
(Thousand year Reign )
It's certainly probable that people didnt live 20,000 years. Especially when writing about past kings It's nice to make them live longer so your reign has more legitimacy. Between mistranslation, cultural misunderstandings, different calendars, and humans being known proficient liars... you probably shouldnt believe many of those ages.
Or just pray and ask god and let me know what he says 😂
My favorite Biblical figure is Spider-Man. He exists because I said so, just now.
Love your videos!...note that you are confusing "lineage" with "linage"...your intent is the word lin-nee-age
No, his intent is as he says it is. You are being an accent snob.
He gives the patriarchs too much credit tbh. Dont think it’s that complicated.
Dan, I don't think I heard you address why the life-ages dropped after the flood? Could you address that please?
Neat!
Skills shortage.
So what value does the Bible have? If it's just a collection of stories told by various authors in various times, then how does it have the influence that it has over the centuries? I'm agnostic regarding the Bible but Deistic in belief.
Wow. Never trust an editor.
It was because they were copper blood based. Some were Gold and Silver based.
Better minerals like Mono-Atomic Gold gives you stronger/higher vibrational consciousness and a total body upgrade reversing the aging process!
The earth was spinning faster in old times?
Spinning governs days. Revolving governs years.
Because it's fiction!! You're welcome.
Except this is just your opinion. Enoch wasn’t taken to heaven because as we know, the NT tells us no man has entered heaven nor seen God.
Ya May want to search the signature of God You give false testimony.
I’m the one who knows truth. I’m the expert of written history.
You trust the writing of ancient writers. Ow do you decide if they’re lying.
We have proof we found cane art and other writings. We know they’re the authorities of proof.
All DNA leads back to what the Bible says.
How does DNA lead to the Bible?
It has nothing. Absolutely nothing about the writers. It’s about the accuracy of prophecy. There are super computer codes in the Torah that’s written in original Hebrew.
There is a man named Johnathon Cahn. If you want truth listen to him on Trump assassination If you find anything interesting then listen to the second one.
God tells us that our blood screams to us from the ground
There are nearly 100 scientific facts men didn’t know about until the last few centuries.
I don’t think you care. I believe you’re a troll who only wants to insult me. Then if I disagree you want to belittle me and call me a fool because we have different opinions. God calls people like yourself Fools. I don’t because I used to be a very foolish fool.
I laughed and mocked people who believed in God. So I set out to prove them wrong. Only to become a believer.
Who’s a fool. You say Matter created intelligence
I say intelligence created matter.
There are many names of world leaders imbedded in complex codes throughout the first five books. Good luck I hope you become wise
Useful Charts did an interesting assessment of the age of the world. Using real events compared to the biblical accounts, he set the creation of the world exactly 4000 years before the restoration of the temple during the Maccabees. Coincidence?
Coincidence? Certainly not! Especially when you recognize that the whole of the Old Testament (including the Apocrypha) is the story of Hebrew/Jewish origins and identity, setting themselves over and apart from all their neighbors from Egypt to Persia to Greece, and finally Rome itself, and a polemic against the other nations' gods and traditions vis-à-vis the supremacy of YHWH. This is, of course, an oversimplification.
This all sounds really interesting until you remember that more than one person can have the same name. This also fails to acknowledge that the lineage given in Genesis 4 accurately records an exponential decay curve in lifespan. It’s not just a random or drastic drop. Lastly, notice how we don’t have any copies of these other versions. This is all assumption and guesses based on those assumptions about the text.
I agree with you. When you say “we don’t have any copies of these other versions” are you referring to the ancient Sumerian / Aramaic versions of the text?
Because the world had to be populated, simple as that!
I know I should ignore it, sorry, but please learn to pronounce lineage properly. It's Lin-ee-age (with the ee pronounce like the ey in key, and the age sounding more like the idge in midge).
Yes, please use other parts of your made up story to prove this one rediculous part of your made up story. Analyzing how the names are close together... just wow.
I find trying to put the Bible at the bottom of the trusted list as being in very bad taste. Instead of saying it’s a copy of other’s work, why don’t you say other’s work are a copy of the Bible? Which to me is probably a more accurate statement. Satan is a copycat that tries to substitute what God does with his own version to fool as many as possible. We have that in the end times in revelation, where it says that all on the earth will worship him (Satan) whose names are not written in the book of life. In order to do that he mimic’s Christ and throws in error with truth. Only those who have full trust in God’s holy word will make it through those times with their faith in tact.
“It’s all made up” well there you have it folks. Thousands of stories across multiple times frames cultures and areas, all just making things up! The architecture, the written words, the engravings, the beliefs and customs- all just made up for no reason at all except material ones! Wow!
Thanks Dan, incredible plain boring view - typical of academia
He does what he accuses others of doing lol I'm done with this channel
Dan, this is an opinion and speculation piece on your part. For believers the explanation of longer years could be linked to the fact that genetics were without the "mutational" negatives that we see today and (speculating) that post-flood could have included a change in the ozone layer - known as the shield for life on Earth.
Sept there was no flood, and that's not how biology works.
Believing in a deity with no actual evidence, believers can make up whatever they want to justify those beliefs, especially since the conclusion is already made-up.
@@Spiritof_76 What requires more faith, believing in a diety that has left an obvious imprint in nature and creation or Athiesm which ignores it all?
@@izregistered There is zero evidence of any deity. None, zero, zilch, nada. You just fell for the stories you've been told by other misinformed people. Claiming "god made it" is the laziest possible explanation for anything.
@@Spiritof_76In my perspective, considering an accidental origin and nothingness seems to reflect a greater degree of laziness. It's important to clarify that I'm not asserting a divine creator with the statement "god made it." Rather, I'm offering an explanation based on what a believer might attribute to the prolonged lifespans before the biblical flood. The patterns I discern in nature present what I consider to be more than negligible evidence supporting the idea that our origins are rooted in something transcendent. While we may hold differing views, I respect the possibility of agreeing to disagree.
Even though you share some useful information, you don't have enough evidence to support your conclusion.
that people didn't live to be 900 years old? lol
@@scambammer6102 If by any chance you come back here in a few years from now and apologize for your comment, I'll accept it.
We are living in a time that what we consider possible is beginning to change.
If you think being humble about this, and realizing your understanding of reality might be incomplete, is sort of like being a fool, you will actually end up being a fool.
@bzanotti Yeah, nobody lived to 900 years old. It's fiction. The Biblical writers were borrowing ideas from older religious myths.
---------------------------------------------------------
*The Enuma Elish would later be the inspiration for the Hebrew scribes who created the text now known as the biblical Book of Genesis.* Prior to the 19th century CE, the Bible was considered the oldest book in the world and its narratives were thought to be completely original. In the mid-19th century CE, however, European museums, as well as academic and religious institutions, sponsored excavations in Mesopotamia to find physical evidence for historical corroboration of the stories in the Bible. ***These excavations found quite the opposite, however, in that, once cuneiform was translated, it was understood that a number of biblical narratives were Mesopotamian in origin.***
*Famous stories such as the Fall of Man and the Great Flood were originally conceived and written down in Sumer,* translated and modified later in Babylon, and reworked by the Assyrians ***before they were used by the Hebrew scribes for the versions which appear in the Bible.***
***In revising the Mesopotamian creation story for their own ends, the Hebrew scribes tightened the narrative and the focus but retained the concept of the all-powerful deity who brings order from chaos.*** Marduk, in the Enuma Elish, establishes the recognizable order of the world - *just as God does in the Genesis tale* - and human beings are expected to recognize this great gift and honor the deity through service.
*"Enuma Elish - The Babylonian Epic of Creation - Full Text - World History Encyclopedia"*
*"Sumerian Is the World's Oldest Written Language | ProLingo"*
*"Sumerian Civilization: Inventing the Future - World History Encyclopedia"*
*"The Myth of Adapa - World History Encyclopedia"*
Also discussed by Professor Christine Hayes at Yale University in her 1st lecture of the series on the Hebrew Bible from 8:45 to 14:30 minutes, lecture 3 from 28:30 to 41:35 minutes, lecture 4 from 0:00 up to 21:30 minutes and 24:00 up to 35:30 minutes and lecture 7 from 24:20 to 25:10 minutes.
From a Biblical scholar:
"Many stories in the ancient world have their origins in other stories and were borrowed and modified from other or earlier peoples. *For instance, many of the stories now preserved in the Bible are* ***modified*** *versions of stories that existed in the cultures and traditions of Israel’s* ***older*** *contemporaries.* Stories about the creation of the universe, a cataclysmic universal flood, digging wells as land markers, the naming of important cultic sites, gods giving laws to their people, and even stories about gods decreeing the possession of land to their people were all part of the cultural and literary matrix of the ancient Near East. *Biblical scribes freely* ***adopted and modified*** *these stories as a means to express their own identity, origins, and customs."*
*"Stories from the Bible"* by Dr Steven DiMattei, from his website *"Biblical Contradictions"*
@@epicofatrahasis3775 The fact that the biblical texts may be inspired or based on older stories does not exclude the possibility of a greater life span on those ancient times, even though you might find that hard to believe or consider.
@@bzanotti The basic laws of biology have not changed. We know that in past ages life expectancy was much shorter because of infection, disease, lack of sanitation, lack of adequate protective clothing, etc. They did not have access to some supernatural technology that would have prolonged their lives to unheard-of lengths.
People did live that long before the flood. It was biological change after the fall. We were originally built to live forever but this changed after the fall.
Genesis 6
A world gone wrong.
Sorry you can’t change the word
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I don't know where this guy is getting his information, but it certainly is not biblical. Everyone, please read the bible; no matter who is giving the information. Read it for your self and don't takes someone else's word for it. The bible says what it says, for a man to contradict it is false doctrine and not from God.
What about the many errors and inconsistencies in the Bible itself?
Dan's not addressing any doctrine. Even when you say you're saying that "it says what it says," you're imposing your own conception of what it means onto it, instead of trying to understand what the original, mostly anonymous, authors intended.
How do I send you a private message.. ?
Months makes more sense.
Fiction makes the most sense.
It’s almost like Genesis is, and hear me out…. mythical.
You can be a Christian and concede that. Just say it’s allegory, it’s fine.
Thanks for clearing things up again, Dan.
there's no reason to think the original writers thought it was allegory. And if it is allegory, the meaning is just subjective opinion, as is identifying the parts that are allegory. Allegory = fiction.
@@scambammer6102He wasn't actually saying that.
--- the original bible author's viewpoint was what the Sumero Babylonian cosmology was.
Had the bible authors been supernaturally inspired by an all powerful and all knowing deity, they would have been able to describe the universe truthfully.
Evangelicals can't handle Genesis 1, which claims that plants, that require the Sun's warmth, were somehow created on day 3, before the Sun itself was created on day 4.
It was mythical.
I think the bible is total bunk from beginning to end. I am just disagreeing with his point about allegory. Allegory is an intentional literary device. That isn't what the bible writers were doing. They thought they were conveying god's word.
@@scambammer6102 There's no reason to assume they didn't think it was allegory either.
Then everything in the bible can be mythical. From Adam to Jesus. If Jesus is the "second Adam" and Adam was just mythical, this has serious consequences for the gospels and Christianity. Its just picking and choosing what u like and what not.
Because anything is possible in a story.
And on Joe Rogan’s podcast.
You think God who create the heavens and the earth can't do something like this?
@@KhoaNgo-sr4zq We have stories written by fallible superstitious men claiming gods created the heavens and earth. Which story do you sheepishly believe in?
@@KhoaNgo-sr4zq
Not if it’s only a claim, or simply imagined.
*Sometimes they hold your mouth shut so you can't say Jesus Christ so you have to pray in your mind with faith .
Oh! That's a bummer. I thought they were Númenóreans of sorts!
Thank you, Dan! Greetings from Argentina!
It does seem that Tolkien was tapping into that same line of mythological thought, that the righteous are long lived. Even if some fall out of righteousness, like Sauron and Saruman, they still retain their longevity because of their lineage.
In deed, @@autonomouscollective2599! In the case of the Númenóreans, there's an explicit link between their rampaging wickedness and their decreasing lifespan.
@@autonomouscollective2599 I remember in Catholic school being taught the decreasing lifespans of the Pentateuch patriarchs was an illustration of how original sin was steadily corrupting the world--Adam lived longer than Methuselah, who lived longer than Noah, who lived longer than Moses, etc. I haven't looked at it closely enough to see if that actually tracks, but it's possible Tolkien, a devout Catholic, was taught something similar.
For the exact same reasons that snakes can talk and have legs. You can write anything in a story.
for the same reason ur 💩💩💩🤡🤡🤡
The ancestors of snakes DID have legs, as they evolved from lizards during three different events. In the DreamTime animals can always speak to humans (“DreamTime” here referring to any mythic age, not just Australian Aboriginal’s period).
@@davidweihe6052 So you are agreeing with me?
@davidweihe6052 Thing is, yous guys always pull that one about ‘ah but whataboutism the ancestors of snakes huh?’ _but never point to ongoing evolution, such as the development of infrared-sensing pit eyes in snakes (exactly parallel to how optical eyes developed) or the more recent discovery of infrared-sensing guard hairs in prey animals which who knows where _that's_ going?
There's just no inquisitiveness about the world among the dogmatic, they want it all spoon-fed
Actually back then snakes did have legs lol
Sounds like when a new comic book writer comes on and “retcons” a previous writer’s work
Retcons are Heresy!!!
it is clearly a book of fiction......I wish sometime you would mention the ridiculous talking donkey in the bible.....
He did on his Data>Dogma podcast
It would sound like a fiction nowadays but those things actually happened considering that a lot of things can't explain like how the humans got intelligent and how languages were formed also why this so-called "fiction" is spreading in different languages too
Ok let's see it....
@@scrappycoco6282 actually none of those things actually happened....No one has ever lived to be 950 yrs old...no one ever walked on water...a donkey has never had a conversation with a person....Jesus is never coming back....witches are not real....no one ever was swallowed by a fish and lived inside the fish for 3 days.....people with mental disorders are not possessed by evil demons....just childish nonsense.
@@scrappycoco6282 Yeah, snakes and donkeys don't actually talk. It's fiction.
Without permanent monuments to record the passing years, a nomadic tribe could remember only as far back as its oldest member. As the sole surviver of one's generation, that person might just as well have been 90 as 900.
How wrong you are. It is well known that some tribes in the world would remember their ancestors for hundreds of years. Sometimes centuries later reburying many generations of ancestors in one tomb. For that to happen the dead must have been highly valued and regarded and remembered from generation to generation
@@colinsmith1288
Nomadic tribes?
@0nlyThis Why were the Jews a nomadic tribe. They were often a subjugated people.
@@colinsmith1288 The entire Pentateuch was written for tent dwellers.
"Why are people in Genesis living to be 900 years old?" If reality doesn't fit our book, we just change reality, right.
Common for heirs/usurpers to just keep using the same king's name back then. Think "Dread Pirate Roberts."
The Qur'an copies these myths but puts them into the mouth of God: "We certainly sent Noah to his people, and he remained among them a thousand years minus fifty years, and the flood seized them while they were wrongdoers." (29:14)
Why was Superman so strong? This is you guys.
It was much more likely that you died young of a tooth ache, a bad berry, a drought, or childbirth.
Or a really bad stomach ache on account of it being eaten by lions
Let me see if I understand this properly, you have the people at AiG, and CMI, pretty much using the lineages present in Genesis to come up with the 6000 year old figure. You're saying that the amount of time was "creatively" altered?
Its almost like second temple Judaism was heavily influenced by Zoroastrianism. Oh wait, that is actually what happened with some heavy influence of cannabis to boot.
Excellent as always. Am I correct in that the flood has Adam dying n the year of the flood or just before? Guessing god did not want to drown his first created human?
Dan, do you have a good book recommendation that covers the editing and redactions that were carried iut by King Josiah aan the Jerusalem priests? I keep hearing about this sweeping rewrite of the Torah and would like to study the subject. Thanks.
One more reason which Dan didn't get into.
The Hebrew used a seasonal solar calendar they borrowed from other cultures. They had no linear calendar spanning centuries as we do today. They dated their own lives to either a ruler or an event, such as a major flood. They probably could not have even told you when their grandparents were born, let alone beyond that time.
Why are people who believe in Genesis still living in 2024?
Brainwashing and grooming along with preying on the weak.
It's something in the water.
Specifically, lead
Nobody has ever lived to be that old. A talking donkey told me that.
The idea that ancient man lived longer is a common trope: mythical ancestors, closer to creation and the gods, lived long lives in the image of their creators. But as men gradually distanced themselves from the divine, they degenerated and their lives shortened. We see this with the Hebrews and Sumerians, but also with the Greeks (myth of the races), the Hindus (cycle version with different ages - men to come will live a very long time again) and doubtless many others.
loved this one
Well, the basic argument, when it comes to nonsensical things like this or the various contradictions in The Bible, is that everything must be true (literally) in The Bible, or nothing in The Bible can be depended upon. Well, all I know is, when I want information that is 100 percent accurate, I go to scriptures written by extremely primitive men ( NOT God) who had NO scientific knowledge whatsoever, put their own opinions and prejudices in their writings, and based a good deal of what they wrote on the myths and traditions of other civilizations. The Bible is not "infallible" or "inerrant" because The Bible is NOT God (because ONLY God is infallible and inerrant).
Old Testament writers often gravitated to the number 7 as it was considered good luck, maybe because there were seven visible celestial bodies in the skies. So, to add to the bit about Lemech and the number 7, the bible says "If Cain is avenged seven times, Then Lamech seventy-seven times!" *and then Lamech supposedly lives to be 777 years old?* If that doesn't SCREAM mythology then I don't know what does.
Not saying “ancient aliens”…… But….🤣🤣👍
Much of the Old Testament is fully made up and fictional, and I'm a Bible believer, but have to be honest and accept the facts. IMO, a man and a woman were placed on earth many thousands of years ago, from a habitable planet, and given basic instructions by God, but God does NOT intervene in our daily lives and does not answer every prayer and request, we're mostly on our own to determine our own lives and destinies.
God created all life on earth including humans these human were not first man only Adam was When God crated Adam God didn't just crate Adam hearted Adam from a part of the earth God also place part of God own soul in Adam the other humans he crated God crated humans in the same way as God had created all other life it why Adam and his desenent lived for 900 years.
How about Enoch, Jared and Methuselah not being borrowed from Cain's line, and it just so happens they have similar names, and this shows as a witness reflecting the long ongoing battle of satan and his seed trying to imitate and infiltrate the righteous customs and institutions that God has set up, constantly trying to pollute or exterminate the Godly seed. (Isa 14:13-15, Matt 2:16-18, Exo 7:8-23, Exo 8:1-8, 2 Corinth 11:13-15, 2 Thess 2:1-12, Exo 1:15-22, Psa 106:34-39. setting up the apostate church, false religions and the ungodly blasphemous world government/s Rev 2:9,12,13, Matt 13:24-30,36-43, Acts 20:28-31, Rev 13, 17 and 18. Just like God gives power to His witnesses; Rev 11:3-13, so does the enemy to do false miracles Rev 13:4-15, Rev 16:12-14. The enemy has his apostate religious institution which is the wh*re and God has His chaste Holy Bride the Church/Israel; Rev 17 and Rev 12, Rev 19:7-9, Eph 5:26-28, 2 Corinth 11:2, Joel 2:15,16.)
Methuselah dying the year of the flood does not automatically mean that he died in the flood. The sons of Seth are the godly seed, and are called Bnaiy Elohim (Sons of God), the line from whom the appointed seed of the woman will come to crush the serpent's head aka Christ (Gen 3:15, Psa 91:13, Isa 53:5,10, Col 2:14,15, Gen 4:25,26, Gen 6:1,2)
This line was righteous and it would not be becoming of the Lord to slay the righteous with the wicked and cause the righteous to succumb to the punishment set for sinners.(Gen 18:25, 2 Kings 22:1,2,10-20, 2 Kings 23:1-3,25, Revelation 7:3). The flood came on the 17th Day of the 2nd Month (Gen 7:11,12), so this gives the perfect amount of time for God to honour and deal kindly with His righteous servants, allowing them to take their rest most likely in the 1st month and have a proper burial deserved of a saint. (Gen 15:15 as opposed to 1 Kings 2:5,6, 2 Kings 23:15-20). Whether Jared and Lamech expired the year of the flood in the Samaritan Pentateuch, the same reasoned principle applies with that of Methuselah. The Masoretic says Lamech expired at 777yrs and went to rest before his father Methsuelah, which backs up my aforementioned righteous principle act which God was doing by putting them to sleep before the cup was filled for the wicked. Methsuelah being the oldest to live (969yrs) and doing so up until the flood was a witness to the world; as his name can mean (without the vowel marks) "his death shall send out/send forth/shoot out, set free/let down" i.e The Flood 🌧💦🌊
Well , Watson what do u think of my performance.
Well Sherlock u had the poor audience spellbound, but I must admit I was not impressed.
U gave yourself up.
U forgot that God said _"Man shall now live till 120 years "
Yes, my dear Sherlock ,God made that drastic cut in lifespan from 800 to 900 years to a mere 100 years.
One more Beatitude _ Blessed are those who live to see 100 years.! !!!!
I think this channel and Christianity for me has run it's course
I think I'm free and no longer have interest and I stop all these channels from taking over my youtube feed
Ancient Sci-Fi
BAM!
I am SO disappointed. All this time, I thought they were elves.
Gen.6.3 - And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years. [kjv]
Gen.6.3 - Then GOD said, "I'm not going to breathe life into men and women endlessly. Eventually they're going to die; from now on they can expect a life span of 120 years." [msb]
Why does Jacob live until 147 then?
People lived longer because the full affect of sin on the creation was gradual.
Hi, could you please provide a verse or chapter in the Bible that discusses this?
"lin-E-age" 😐
Funny how Noah was in his hundreds and didn’t have a single grandchild.
So regarding the evil patriarchs... they all float? ;)
The image of a younger Tim Curry in a sewer wearing a patriarch's robes is NOT why I came here, but I got it anyway. 😂😇
They eat their spinach.
You mean fruit. Genesis 1:29
Maybe the elders in Genesis were cybernetic beings sent from the future to kill the line of John Conners.
Every think of that?
Don't be silly. They were obviously vampires.
@@juanausensi499 - yes, Vampire Hunter D takes place in the past, before the flood, not in the future.
I think we solved this mystery today. Well done!
So basically they wrote fanfics for their patriarchs.
* preferred patriarchs
Not the ones they didn't like
How about considering Genesis 6:3 where the command to limit the age of man is given? Prior to this, it could be interpreted that God's spirit (from the breath of life breathed into Adam) is the cause of the long age.
I had this idea that the ages of the patriarchs age was or it a calendar of sorts and this some kind of countdown or something of the sort. Like numerological cypher of sorts. Thoughts?
Do you feel that the flood story is a replication of the ancient Sumerian flood myth and further reinforced by the constant flooding of the Nile Delta?