The first sign of Miguel not having a Spider-Sense is actually much earlier in the movie, during the Renaissance Vulture fight. When he is talking to Gwen about being able to handle the Vulture, Gwen says "knock yourself out". Miguel is obviously confused, and doesn't sense the Vulture revving up to attack him. We don't see the signature squiggly lines around his head, or see any change in his body language.
@@jjrobotnik At this point, Gwen doesn't see Miles as a threat, since she has been thinking about him for so long in a positive way. She loves him so much that her spider-sense can't sense him. Spider-Sense is used to detect foreign threats, or other spider-people. These are large constants in almost every Spider-person's Spider-sense, and also explains why Gwen doesn't notice miles.
That is exactly what I was thinking, in that moment as well as a bit later on when we see his fangs, personally I still think he’s one of those anti Spider-Man vampires, moralin or something
Has no one bought up the fact that Miguel’s daughter could’ve been that universe’s spider man, which is why when he stepped in for his dead self it prevented the canon event of “uncle Ben figure dying” leading to that universe’s destruction
Side note if kingpin got what he wanted then miles and everyone else would have ceased to exist, people going to other dimensions messes with the stability of things. But would Spot have still been a thing since he was involved with the collider
IMO, the real question is whether or not Miguel realises that the glitches are caused by multiversal incursions, and is lying about it, or if he sincerely believes that they are a result of non-canon events. In other words, is he a secret villain, or a (very) misguided hero?
Almost invariably a misguided hero, I think. There's probably a secret "real" villain of the Spiderverse we haven't seen yet, maybe the Miguel who "Died" or something along those lines.
@@SisterRosesince we see Peter and MJ’s wedding is a canon event I’m personally thinking it’s Mephesto cause he caused OMD and other things that would interfere with so called “canon events”
Miguel isn't lying, his just wrong, his consumed with guilt and over reacting. But you are right breaking Canon doesn't break the Universe, what breaks the universe are incursions. You gained a subscriber.
No, it's not incursions. If it had been, Miles Universe, Earth 1610 should have been destroyed when Peter B , Gwen and other Spiderman changed so many thing in ITSV.
@@sakshii20 for an incursion to occur a person must try to take the place of their Variant in their variants universe. Miguel was living in the place of a dead Miguel. Or like with Dr. Strange, Dream Walking in their Variant’s body. You’re right simply visiting another universe isn’t a problem.
More like Miguel's universe was wiped from existence when Kingpin fired up that machine in the first film. Miguel was saved due to Peter's Spider-Human hybrid DNA getting in there.
I don't think Miguel is lying. I think he doesn't know. He was in such an emotional state that he clined in the nearest explanation, the canon events, and never questioned it
Gwen doesn't recognize Miguel's spiderman suit as a spiderman suit when she first meets him. She was being jokey calling him blue panther and such but I think she genuinely didn't recognize him as a spiderman. And spider-people are supposed to be able to sense each other on site. Case closed. But also I think Miguel blames himself for failures easily and has a lot of self hatred which lead him to believe it was his fault that universe collapsed. I don't think he's lying. Just wrong.
I wouldn’t say case closed. Just because he isn’t detected by spidey sense immediately, doesn’t mean he isnt a Spider-Man. It could simply be because of the manually modified, instead of organically modified genes. We don’t know for certain thought
Gwen seems to have a special link with Miles but she also sensed the other spider-people in ITSV. That said, I think the spider-person that is being sensed has to also have the sense.
spidermna 2099 is'nt the traditinal spiderman, yall forget the real spiderman existed in his dimension, so the actual spiderman already has his canon events, miguel is just a guy who replictad spidermans powers and has adopted his name, but he is'nt actually a real spiderman in the peter parker sense
Maybe Miguel got so traumatized by what happened to him so he got obsessed with controlling "canon events" in the multiverse because he doesn't want to see it happen again. That's what I think.
Facts he’s not a bad guy, my favorite is miles but I don’t hate Miguel, he lost his daughter twice and is still somewhat a good guy. He’s just blinded he can’t see things like miles, he doesn’t even try cause he’s so scared to take the chance
@@GladwinAbel He only lost his daughter once. In *his* original universe he didnt have a family, but in the universe he replaced himself in he did. Also, if I remember it right, he didnt stay there for long, maybe a month or two until it broke apart
The writers made it so Miguel is wrong whether they meant to or not. He explains how canon events need to happen and changes are anomalies that shouldn’t exist. Miguel explained how miles shouldn’t have become Spider-Man which lead to spot being created which makes spot and everything he does anomalies. And we see that Jeff is going to die because Spot kills him. So Jeff’s death should be an anomaly and Miguel should be trying to help miles save his dad instead of trying to make sure Jeff dies because his death isn’t a canon event
Trust, they're a top-tier writing team. I say this as a writer and cinephile, if that matters at all. But even if it doesn't, every thing is intentional when it comes to film in particular because they're limited on time. Everything needs to serve a purpose, and a writing/direction/production team at this level is going to make sure not to waste anything. So, they meant for him to be wrong, in part because (as they said) Miguel represents the part of the fandom who feel that Miles shouldn't exist. He's speaking for them. So, even though it doesn't make sense when you really think about it and start to pick it apart, he's convinced. That's the fandom. And it's intentional.
Because there's literally no point in doing so. I remember quite a few times in school, there would be a kid who always "simplified" what someone said, it pissed everyone off. My dad also had a boss who did the same, and nobody liked him because of it. Why "simplify" what they say when you already know what they mean? There's no point, it just looks very pretentious.@nicholasfloyd1289
I'd argue Miguel does NOT have spider-sense, indicated by his fight with the Renaissance-Vulture. If he had a spider-sense, he would've been able to at least somewhat anticipate Vulture's blast (the "Knock yourself out" bit with Gwen) and was instead it dead-on because he couldn't anticipate the attack
Yea he's more of a human spider then he is q spiderman he has vemon in his fangs that can paralize people he has retracting claws to climb on walls and super human senses and organic webbing
I do think Miguel is wrong and we're supposed to be able to figure that out, but I don't think he's lying. I think he is genuinely mistaken about canon events and what causes universes to become unstable. He's just too traumatized and too convinced he's correct to consider any other possibilities.
@@matthewisguy7336 He will. Gwen saw that it's all possible through her dad stepping down as a captain and her universe not imploding. So Miles will convince Miguel.
Lying to yourself is still lying and for all we know Miguel messing with his canon had nothing to do with why his adopted universe broke apart, sometimes things just break, even universes.
@@t-rexcellentreviews1663 Exactly. I don’t believe he’s the reason why his family died, it was something else that did his former universe in. Miguel isn’t at fault for it, but he believes he is. Miles will show him that he wasn’t responsible for what happened and that he can be a hero again.
I’ve been very suspicious of Miguel since I heard him explain that he coincidentally found out that another version of himself died and had a family…it seemed more like he was actively searching for that universe. And I think there was a bit more…”involvement” in how that version of himself died. In a lot of ways it very eerily mirrors the kingpins motives in the first movie. Maybe this is our first clue on who this version of Miguel really is?
oooh that is a good one... he is his universes kingpin. I too wondered why he was looking at other universes. Was he looking for a family or was he just looking out of curiosity or for another reason.
So we all know that Miles Morales is not a anomaly But he did make some mistakes so but still Miguel O’Hara is wrong. I think he should be tarantula man instead of Spider-Man.
How does O Hara know about miles spider not being from his universe?. I thought before it was ms dr octavious in miles world that brought it over. Cause kingpin had her testing the machine. But the collider thing must’ve ran only 2 times. So a higher technology from miguels dimension must’ve been doing multidimensional work long before this. Then later on the watches were in full development. but maybe it was miguel by mistake that brought the spider. And so he monitored any multiversal events in a way combing through making sure his accident didn’t make other accidents. cause at the end of the first movie hes basically getting a report on what happened on miles dimension. “Like few that was a close one “. But he gets confident starts spider society. Then hunts down the guy that killed his double idk. Sony needs to make this movie already. . And also why doesn’t the spider dna glitch in miles body why do his powers work perfectly though the spider clearly glitches in the first movie?
My theory for what happened to the Dead Miguel universe was that if he was murdered, his death would have encouraged further investigation, which wouldn't happen if he's still alive. Iirc, Miguel worked for Alchemax, so that investigation was perhaps *supposed* to stop a Collider Event but never happened because Miguel was alive and well. Too busy playing house, 2099 missed the true causes behind the world melting.
I feel like a lot of people are misunderstanding spider sense as a power, it's not a sense used to detect people or find out where they are, it alerts spiderman to oncoming danger and allows him to react faster. Miguel doesn't have a spider sense in the comics he just has incredible reflexes
This movie spawned so many new Spider-Man fans who haven’t read the comics. They think Miguel isn’t who he say he is, simply because he doesn’t have spider senses. Despite also not having it in the comics and being a good guy. I do agree that there’s something fishy about the spider society. We have to wait until the third movie to fully see the truth.
I dont think miguel is the actual 2099. Too many differences power wise. He could have gotten his dna spliced with the actual spider man 2099 (somehow), and thats why he doesnt have the same powers. Dude could be confusing himself into believing hes a spider man
@@barbararab6390Miguel is Spider-Man 2099. His powers are different because he wasn't bitten by a radioactive spider. His genetic code was spliced with spider DNA. I don't know why they gave him red energy webs. He was the first Spider-Man to have organic webbing.
Another important detail is Peter b Parker only had a child simply because he was inspired by miles. Peter b changed as a person thanks to miles and would have been different if he didn’t met him but also it doesn’t effect his world even tho may Parker his daughter is an anomaly
Not only that, but Mayday is LITERALLY another "Spiderman," with powers and everything, and even gets a suit when she's older. She's Peter's daughter in some of the comics too, meaning that yes, a world CAN have more than one Spiderman.
@@Gamfluent From the explanations we get in the movie Anomalies nearly always lead to breaks in canon, and a universe's events being majorly influenced by forces from other universes are what really causes the collapse, with canon events being ways to identify things that should not be changed as to not lead to this disruptions that cause collapses. What's weird is Miles universe practically bent over backwards to correct itself for him and his existence. The problem for this comes from the fact that Miles' spider ending up in the wrong universe, caused that universe's spider bite to never happen and no spider-man to exist, which by all definition should be a canon event, which proves that canon events aren't the full story to what causes universes to collapse. Miles' own universe seemingly gave him 2 Uncle Ben esque incidents. He felt responsible for Peter's death but also being completely unable to prevent it, and Peter being the one to inspire Miles to become Spider-man ; and while that Peter never directly gives the great power speech to Miles, we know Miles knows the speech from the comics which from all we know about his universe, Peter as Spider-man probably helped write while embelishing the details of his actual life so no one could learn his secret identity. He then also lost Uncle Aaron, which practically serves the same purpose as Uncle Ben's death, but then this would basically be a canon event happening twice to Miles, which should also disrupt the canon. Not to mention Mile's journey as Spider-man would've never even been possible if not for the influence of those from outside his own reality, which seems really weird since that should also disrupt the canon of Spider-man. We know there is some merit to Miguel saying that breaking canon leads to universes collapsing since we see it happen in the movie twice, but Miles' very existence and his reality's continued existence, as well as the continued existence of Earth-42's universe, should disprove that as both had their timelines wildly altered by other universes either pulling stuff out of them, or stuff from other universes being pulled into them, which by all means should be equivalent to a disruption of the canon, prove that this theory of canon events is incomplete at best. Put simply there are too many contradictions for Miguel to be 100% correct in his understanding and explanation, but there is also still proof that some of it is right.
Don't know if this is related. Miguel gets triggered whenever someone questions him being Spider-Man. And when Gwen inquires if Miles could actually be an anomaly, Miguel just deflects it by saying "You want to find out?".
I feel like if Miguel's cannon event theory was right the captain would have started to glitch and disappear since his death was pav's 'cannon' event but he didn't. I'd say that's pretty solid evidence to say Miguel's view on cannon events are skewed. Can't wait for the 3rd movie to tell us/ confirm or debunk the community theory's!
"Mr. Fisk, if we fire again this week, there could be a black hole under Brooklyn" - says Doc oc. Meanwhile in Mumbattan: Spot fires the collider, we see a quantum hole (which I believe is a black hole) under the bridge. Coincidence? I don't think so. Consequences of disrupting a canon event? Don't think so either.
No hate, but you kinda got it a bit wrong when you said Event ASM-90 was meant to imply an ordering system. It's actually called ASM-90 because it's an event from Amazing Spider-Man Issue 90. Love your channel btw
Thanks! This is however, still a type of ordering system. If it refers to issue 90 (which I didn’t realize until your comment) that’s still an ordering system in itself
I don't think Miguel is lying, but it's more likely that he simply just doesn't understand what is going on in the multiverse as he should be more worried about INCURSIONS rather than “BREAKING THE CANON” as INCURSIONS are much worse where one or both universes colliding with one another gets destroyed.
@@number420dad i mean, they're not wrong. the dude most likely hasn't read Miguel's comics, whuch have clearly stated all the things he mentioned, miguel doesn't have spider sense and tge likes, and tgat is stated, however, he has enhanced hearing, smell and sight, which aid him differently.
Um 2099's webs are actually organic. And the way he makes up for his lack of spider sense is actually compensated by his accelerated vision giving him a almost 360 range of vision as well as his other heighten senses. Also his fangs are completely his own. Most people are thinking that he's shooting blood webbing, or hard light webbing, due to the way it's able to angle itself. In the end it just feels like a lot of stretching with no concreted answer. All we can do is wait for the final movie.
Because he doesn’t have one, he’s lying as much to himself as he is to others around him, him constantly trying to control everything around him can also be considered breaking canon events.
It'd be better if the videos would say he's "wrong" instead of "lying." Lying is intentional. Lying would make Miguel a villain, not just an antagonist.
I think miguil isn't lying because in loki s2 loki sacrifice himself to hold multiverse which would be fine to incursion or something that has been branching like that some cannon isn't going right that he mentioned
I feel like the reason why the universe Miguel replaced himself in glitched out is because he changed the cannon for a selfish reason. He didnt replace himself for the good of it but so that he could have his cake and eat it. The same thing happened when kingpin tried to force his family into his dimension everything started collapsing.
Also when Miguel explains the canon event of a captain dying SAVING A CHILD he literally shows the movie 'the amazing Spider-Man' as an example and captain Stacy in this film doesn't save a child
Miguel is definitely lying and its very obvious Gwen's father retired and didn't become captain ergo breaking a canon event and her universe is still intact and you can even see that she realises this too and that's what motivates her to form a team to help miles face Miguel.
I keep hearing this theory getting passed around that the original Miguel was supposed to be the “Uncle Ben” of that universe that 928-Miguel entered. His daughter was likely supposed to be that universe’s Spider-Woman, but because 928-Miguel essentially stepped in as the replacement, it threw the whole universe out of alignment. He was the original anomaly, and it again reincorporated the trauma and PTSD he has from that ensure that something like that never happens again.
This entire Spider-Society, controlling the spiderverse and canon events reeks of something similar to the TVA. I’m feeling that there’s a bigger force at play here. I’m definitely feeling that there’s someone orchestrating all of this , someone is lying to Miguel about how the multiverse works, similar to Revona in Loki. So far both movies have been “Approved by the Comics Code Authority”, so I’d love it if they actually made it a real thing that’s controlling what can and can’t happen, which would be a great meta narrative about the actually comics code authority. Calling it now, the next movie is going to say “NOT approved by the comics code authority”
Miguel is wrong about miles. In Miguel's words, miles might not be a spider man, but at least miles Is like the other spider people, and It is not miles fault, but miles is the best spider-man in the two movies
Another point of Miguel having no spider sense could be the scene on earth 67. 67s spider sense as well as Miguels sense don't activate resulting in spiderman 67 asking: "who the hell are you?" after Miguel already told him that he was spiderman.
In the comics he doesn't have spider sense. It's his thing. He is genetically bonded to a spider so a proper half-man, half spider. He can't climb walls but has enhanced senses and organic webbing.
yeah, miguel doesn't have spidey sense. it's his thing, he's an actual half human half sp8der. he's supposed to have organic spider webs, so idk why he wasn't given, but he has enhanced hearing, smell and sight
3:25 i'm not 100% sure this is how spidey sense works anyway but in the begining of the movie gwen tricks him to get hit by that vulture varian because he doesn't have a spidey sense
Miguel is definitely a weirder Spider. Virtually every misgiving against Miles other than the Earth 42 spider can also be applied to Miguel, like weird spider powers that other Spiders lack or being someone who is neither a varient of Peter or someone adjacent to Peter. Although, I do think there is an error in this theory, mainly the universe destabilization. 1. There was nothing stating the universes imploding from broken canon had anything to do with the universes trying to repair the anomalies, but rather that breaking canon itself tears them apart. The way I see it based on the movie's presentation: reality is a fabric, not an organism. Pull a thread too much and you unravel it and it has no ability to heal itself. The pulling of the thread in this case is the anomaly exerting influence on the course of a universe, like say replacing yourself after the other you died. An anomaly existing is merely the start, their influence is the pull that unravels. That in mind, the Spider Society doesn't appear to make a habit of leaving Miguel's tower in Nueva York, meaning that even with hundreds of Spiders present at any given time, very few of them are exerting what would be deemed harmful influence, and the ones that are likely aren't any worse than the excess Spiders from Into the Spiderverse were on Miles's world. 2. That said, there is a potential common element to known destabilizations that it doesn't appear you've considered and may bolster your theory. In Into the Spiderverse the environmental glitches were from Kingpin's collider. In Mumbattan, you rightfully pointed out that the glitches seem to be realited to the Spot's lingering portals. So what about the imploded Nueva York? Well, both of the previous destabilization incidents were directly tied to crossing the multiverse. What if the other Nueva York was destrohed not by broken canon, but by Miguel's prototype Spider Society watch like he had at the end of Into? It could well be that a combination of trauma, rationalization, and missing information led to Miguel's theory of canon and stopped him from seeing his own tech was the real cause. That's my theory anyway.
Miguel isn't lying because when he showed how his family died he showed Peter was there. And when Miguel talked about the dangers of breaking the canon he referred to Peter during the incedent and Peter said "yeah". So we know he's not lying because there's eye witness accounts. Not every antagonist is a bad guy everyone trying to prove Miles is right and Miguel is the bad guy. But in this situation there are no real clear good guys or bad guys except spot.
Think about it if he has those intense amazing holograms he and lilia make there is a slim chance he made this. Also if the spider society wasn’t formed yet why were Peter and him in the same universe
Miguel isn't lying, he just thinks its the truth. I'm betting its a misunderstanding of the situation, and that they're making assumptions based on what happened. In Beyond the Spiderverse we'll probably learn more of what actually caused the world to crumble, and its probably not as simple as just "breaking the canon."
I’ve been saying this the whole time. He may not be lying, but he is wrong. The whole thing with him is very sus, he said it himself, “ the harder I tried, the more damage I did.” He did more than just replace Miguel. Also, he’s wrong about Miles being an anomaly. The spider not being from his dimension and biting Miles, should’ve broken the canon and broken both universes and the whole first movie wouldn’t have happened, but it did.
3:34 Actually, in the scene where gwen, miguel, and (later on) spiderwoman are fighting the renaissance vulture we can see miguel not being able to sense the vulture attacking him from behind. This proves that he doesn't have a spidey sense.
ATSV literally has three examples of breaking canon doesn't end realities...Miles, Alt Miles and George Stacy. Miguel is right about Miles tho he's 100% Not Spider-Man he's an Anomaly and destined to be The Prowler.
I don’t understand how Miguel explaining to Miles that his dad is going to die doesn’t automatically break the canon event. I would think that each Spider-Man has to experience that kind of catastrophic loss, plus the sudden shock of it, in person. Which is made worse by the fact that each Spider-Man was actively trying to save their person. It’s that failure that initiates growth. Does that make sense? I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around that concept and I’m not sure it’s worth exploring or if I’m trying to go too deep with it.
Something to back your point up the only time a canon event is shown to be broken is when another spider person intervenes as shown with Pavitr Prabhakar. If Miguel just let Miles go there would be no way for him to break the canon.
also we see insomniac peter in the room with all of the villains which means that the insomniac games are canon to spider verse which breaks the idea that peter died because miles had to be spider man since in those games peter and miles coexist and work together a lot
Part 2 here: ruclips.net/video/B0zouERfRqY/видео.html Part 2 will finish many of the ideas started in this video so make sure to stay updated for that! If you any any information that could either prove or disprove this theory, make sure to comment it so I can take a look!
you had a great idea delving into the comics for answers, but it also reveals that he does not have any senses. Maybe go and read the comics more, to possibly reveal something new? For example, the suit in the movie looks like incredible technology, while the comics say its unstable molecules. There seem to besome inconsistencies in the comics, but the majority seems to check out
@@mr.commonsense It is true that in the comics he doesn’t really have a Spider-Sense. I don’t want to rely TOO much on the comics, but as it is his origin, I could definitely mention it!
Will point out, Miguel does have organic webbing per the comics. However he also has access to advanced technology. Webbing is arguably not a major issue. Also per at least the early comics he has hugely enhanced reflexes and perception, but no precognitive sense that I'm aware of.
You made some amazing points that I didn't think about in regards to the Peter B. situation and how it relates to Miguel's. Seen plenty of people arguing for Miguel's side online and I feel like that pokes such a huge hole in that argument. Can't wait for the next episode!
I think you got it wrong. Miguel didn't say ,,When a Spiderman replace a desth one the universe will be destroyed " he said that the universe was destroyed because he replaced a death version of himself. But then it will be most likely if the alive version was destroyed not the univese... Something makes me wonder if Miguel is an anomaly like Miles
Love the video but I dont think Tony is a captain. In Age of Ultron he pointed out that Captain America was in charge and that he just paid for everything and made everyone look cool. I could be wrong though
btw if Miguel's world started collapsing before he knew about cannon events why were peter parker and other spider people with wristbands there? what was the spider society doing in the multiverse before his world died?
Probably researching the multi verse and trying to find out why it was unstable, he probably thought his coming to that universe is what destroyed it. He never makes it clear if this is the 1st time a universe died like this, it probably isn't, he was probably looking into why this was happening recruited fellow spiders to help, then the universe with his daughter dies and that leads to the movie events.
Also when Miguel says how he once broken a cannon event he says how he replaced a dead version of him self and the universe collapsed while miles universe Peter died and miles replace him and it didn’t collapse yet
Also if we assume the cannon event happens like atleast 2 days or a week after the people got bit by a spider the Indian universe should’ve been collapsing already because indains spider man didn’t go through a cannon event so if the universe didn’t experience a cannon event it should collapse
The entire idea of a “canon event” doesn’t align with the entire point of the multiverse, which is a huge what if something went differently, I think Miguel replacing his dead self caused an incursion like in multiverse of madness
About the point of the spider bite being the most important canon event: I think the main thing here is that the canon is fully intersected *with* the spider person. The canon is not something bound to a reality, but rather a person, so that would explain why earth 42 is fine even without a Spider-Man, or even better off without one with no possibility to break canon.
To be honest I don't think Miguel was far off with his explanation on Miles killing his universe's spider-man. I think he was wrong that you can't have 2 spider-people in the same universe but what he should've said is that you can't have two spider-men CREATED in the same universe as that means that the universe is now bound to two spider-men's canons and so the universe killed off the original spider-man to fix that.
I don’t think Miguel is lying. I just think he doesn’t have a grasp on understanding what happened to the universe where he tried to have a family. When I first saw it I was thinking it was Thanos. Anyway, by his own logic Miles universe should be unraveling at a horrendous rate all by itself anyway. Technically he, nor Spot are part of the original canon and Spot is a multiverse level threat. If Spot isn’t canon, then that also means that Jeff Morales’ death from Spot isn’t canon.
Hm, yeah, while I wouldn’t say that Miguel is necessarily lying per se, things sure just doesn’t add up with the whole "Canon Events" thing, I hope we’ll explore it more in the Next Film.
To be honest I don't think Miguel was far off with his explanation on Miles killing his universe's spider-man. I think he was wrong that you can't have 2 spider-people in the same universe but what he should've said is that you can't have two spider-men CREATED in the same universe as that means that the universe is now bound to two spider-men's canons and so the universe killed off the original spider-man to fix that.
my interpretation is; there are no anomalies, canon events are real but not as specific as miguel thinks they are with the growth of the spider-man being key, and miguels universe collapse was caused by prolonged meaningful influence of a non-universe-native being(himself). for the canon events: Spider bite = dna mutation into spide-like aspects, explaining difference in expression of powers with web/spider-sense/strength just being the most common and why Miguel is a spider-man even without a spider bite. uncle ben death = close relationship death, why it varies between family members or people who are essentially seen as family like gwens peter. captain death = death of a role model/authority figure sacrificing themselves for another, just happens to often be a police captain because spider-man is usually small scale in their relationships with people in power, friendly neighbourhood spider-man and all that, I believe Miles captain death has already happened and it was his worlds original spider-man saving miles by telling him to leave before kingpin showed up. or none of this matters and Tinfoil hat theory: Canon events aint shit. Miguel is actually an anomaly himself and knows it, and somehow also knows Miles is the only one that can stop him because multiverse/time travel reasons hes seen it before or something and is, coming full-circle, pulling a kingpin trying to bring back his family through universe smooshing together but more well-informed about multiverse shenanigans than Kingpin was.
I don't think Miguel is intentionally misleading all the other spider people. I think this is what he truly believes. Obviously he's made some wrong assumptions about what causes universes to get destroyed and I hope he realizes this in the next movie. Its gonna devastate him and the other spider people that followed him after learning they really didnt need to stand by and let some people die.
I don't think he was saying that Miles being Spider-Man is on that level why 42 doesn't have a Spider-Man, but that the spider that gives them powers will only ever bite one person, and since it bit Miles, instead of someone in 42, 42 can't have a Spider-Person unless another universe loses one.
To be honest I don't think Miguel was far off with his explanation on Miles killing his universe's spider-man. I think he was wrong that you can't have 2 spider-people in the same universe but what he should've said is that you can't have two spider-men CREATED in the same universe as that means that the universe is now bound to two spider-men's canons and so the universe killed off the original spider-man to fix that.
I think a lot of these holes can be attributed to the fact that Miguel doesn’t know any of this for a fact. He’s a scientist, and this is his big theory and since no one else has disproved his theory, his hypothesis and testing has been confirmed already in his eyes. It’s like if someone made a video essay critiquing a movie that hadn’t been released yet. If the cast and crew of the movie don’t correct it, and the person making the video essay is the only other one who knows about it, the criticism can be assumed/taken as facts
I would just like to point out that the amount of time spent in the wrong universe effects how 'broken' the canon gets. Dr Octavia mentioned it; that the glitching will get worse until eventually it's ripped apart completely. Miguel could have broken his universe because he spent a significant amount of time there, likely years by how attached to his family he got. Peter however only spent like half a day in Miles' universe.
4:37 Hey, did anyone else notice the green things attaching themselves TO Miguel's blood (and maybe DNA)? Also, this might be an unimportant detail, but Miguel seems to have red AND blue blood cells in him. Think that might be important?
Well that's a shot to keep him in check, because in the comics Miguel is tricked by his boss to get him addicted to the spiderman DNA. Which is why Miguel doesn't have normal spiderman powers. Miguel is literally mixed with spider and human DNA.
@@theshaggs4023 He wasn't tricked to get addicted to Spider-Man DNA; he was tricked to get addicted to Rapture. The infusion of spider DNA came later when a colleague tried to take his life.
Miguel didn't just exist in an alternative universe. He took the role of a dead miguel as if he's still alive. Peter B Parker simply exist in miles' universe, he didnt take the mantle of the dead spiderman nor live as him and took control of his dead legacy. Peter B Parker simply exist in miles' universe as consequence of being taken there thats why hes glitching as well as Gwen. Miguel on the other hand took control, i think that was breaking a canon and not saving inspector singh, miles just delayed a canon event or change the scene of an event but inspector singh will later die because traumatic event shapes a spidey. If miles save inspector singh on that exact moment, he will still die later if its a canon event just like doctor strange not ending up with christine
I don't think Miguel is lying but instead not informed well cause it's obvious he blames himself for that "broken canon" incident with how he's putting it on himself for causing that universe to collapse when there is totally so much more to the story. He's using "canon events" as an excuse to cope and relief some the self-guilt he put on himself.
An interesting detail is that Miguels squad at the end is made up of non typical spider people, neather, Miguell, Jassica nor Ben have typical spiderman origin storys.
i think i like the idea that miguel is clinging to the idea of canon events because in a way it's a justification of the trauma he and by extension every other spider person went through. because if their trauma doesn't make them better people, that would just mean they were hurt and now have to live with it. it's like he doesn't want to confront that life happens and things go wrong all the time. our trauma and our scars don't have a set reason for happening, they just do and we live with it. there is no deeper meaning in them and we try so hard to justify them but it doesn't truly exist
I'm pretty sure that the "Uncle ben moment" is just used as a general term so describe a spider person's personal tragedy, and not the hyper specific moment of a uncle or family member dying. kind of like how people saw aunt may's death in no way home as Peter's "uncle ben moment" even thought she was obviously not uncle ben.
Miguel doesnt have spidey sense, the normal spiderperson senses when danger is near or something isnt right but in the scene with the paper vulture, gwen expects him to sense the vulture by saying stuff to hint at it, but throughout the movie we never once seen him use spidey senses. he just relies on quick reflexes
So I think the creators intentionally named canon invents canon events instead of fixed points because fixed points might be unique to each separate universe and canon events are supposed to occur in every universe
They also named them "canon events" to take a swipe at the subset of the fandom that's hateful about canon (thus, rejecting Miles outright because he's not Peter Parker) or just obsessed with it considering that there have been so many interation of Spider-Man and so many restarts and off-shoots of the story that there's no single version that's "canon."
Given Peter B. Parker's relatively low screentime for this movie I believe the writers are planning something for him in BTSV. One detail I thought of that you wrote was how Peter B. was in the universe that Miguel lost his daughter too was wearing a watch. Given that in ITSV Peter B. knew nothing about alternate universes, how did Peter B. manage to get to that universe in the first place? Why would Peter B. even be in that universe in the first place? (given that he also was raising a child and that Miguel most likely stayed for a long period of time in order to form a bond with his daughter). Since ITSV and ATSV take place 1 year between each other and we see Miguel testing the watch in the end credit scene in ITSV, we can assume that the spider society formed between that gap (which is alarmingly fast). And since Miguel only formed the spider society AFTER the universe was destroyed then Peter B. must've been invited pretty early on--even before the creation of the Spider Society. This means that Peter B. may be one of the founding members of the Spider Society, and why he has such a close relationship with Miguel. I believe Peter B. was in that Universe because he wants adventure given how calm his own universe is after being 22+ years as Spiderman; He even tells his wife that this is "work" to him--implying that his own universe is empty of it. In fact given how Mayday Parker is not even supposed to exist. It makes me wonder if HE will be the one that exposes Miguel's misinformed theory.
Another thing with Miles trying to save his family members. If Miles’ Spidey Senses triggered as Kingpin was about to rise his gun and kill Aaron Miles’ would push Aaron out of the way before the bullet hit Aaron which would have resulted in breaking his own canon event. With failing to keep his uncle alive, Miles sure wants to save his dad wanted but, it’s termined either his dad or his mom who could died. Like Miguel said ”you can’t have it all.”
Interesting comment, I feel like whatever happens in life is meant to happen, it doesn't just "accidentally happen", maybe there is a reason why miles was armed with the knowledge of his dad possibly dying to the spot if he becomes captain.
@@lowgpu1687 Him getting bit by that Spider from another dimension is a canon event. Him meeting Gwen is a canon event. Him challenging Miguel is also a canon event. Oh, yeah... Mayday is also canon.
I can only confirm the last theory, because in the first one, if Peggy is Tony's mother, then why didn't he come to her funeral in Captain America: Civil War; Maria Stark is his actual mother. In the second theory, if Natasha was alive then Loki would also be alive, right? The ones who were dusted were the only one to come back by the snap of Hulk. I can only agree with the third theory as the train be the one in which in that timeline/ universe, Spiderman 2 couldn't stop.
migeul could have two types of webbing: multiversal webbing (the red omega beam "webs") and normal webs maybe organic maybe the mwebs act as a day pass for the villain's they are trying to capture we didnt see that much of miguel's webbing in the grand run time of the movie so we gotta wait and see
I think Miguel killed his doppelganger, variant? I don't know but I think he killed him and replaced him in their reality and that's what caused it to break down. And he's lying cuz he doesn't want the other spider people to know what he did.
It is confirmed (from what I've heard) post credits Miguel from the first movie is this Miguel. Anyways 2 big bads are gonna make things messy when Spot already exists.
Miguel definitely doesn’t have spider sense not only does he not have it in the comics but it is also shown in the movie when he first appears. Vulture is about to attack him from behind and he could not sense it at all
idk if anyone mentioned it, but miguel speaking about how his family died and then finding another version of his family in a world where he died reminds me of the first movie where kingpin was searching for another version of his own family due to his inability to accept it. i’m thinking maybe miguel was like his earth’s kingpin, created something like a collider, trying to fill the void of his dead family without confronting the finality of their fates. because he himself couldn’t get away with it, as he was disrupting an entire world’s existence just by his presence, he refuses to allow anyone to have happy lives / a happy ending in their OWN world. i’m too tired to elaborate on my theory but i’m really thinking about it hard 🤨
The first sign of Miguel not having a Spider-Sense is actually much earlier in the movie, during the Renaissance Vulture fight. When he is talking to Gwen about being able to handle the Vulture, Gwen says "knock yourself out". Miguel is obviously confused, and doesn't sense the Vulture revving up to attack him. We don't see the signature squiggly lines around his head, or see any change in his body language.
Very true!
But also Gwen doesn't notice miles when he's literally behind him so id argue it's not that matter of fact
@@jjrobotnikeh tbf she didn’t expect it and miles made himself very obvious by yelling her name
@@jjrobotnik At this point, Gwen doesn't see Miles as a threat, since she has been thinking about him for so long in a positive way. She loves him so much that her spider-sense can't sense him. Spider-Sense is used to detect foreign threats, or other spider-people. These are large constants in almost every Spider-person's Spider-sense, and also explains why Gwen doesn't notice miles.
That is exactly what I was thinking, in that moment as well as a bit later on when we see his fangs, personally I still think he’s one of those anti Spider-Man vampires, moralin or something
Has no one bought up the fact that Miguel’s daughter could’ve been that universe’s spider man, which is why when he stepped in for his dead self it prevented the canon event of “uncle Ben figure dying” leading to that universe’s destruction
That’s a good theory
Side note if kingpin got what he wanted then miles and everyone else would have ceased to exist, people going to other dimensions messes with the stability of things. But would Spot have still been a thing since he was involved with the collider
Makes sense to me.
Ooooo good theory
@@interviolet6675 I don't think so, as he wouldn't even BE Spot if Kingpin got what he wanted.
IMO, the real question is whether or not Miguel realises that the glitches are caused by multiversal incursions, and is lying about it, or if he sincerely believes that they are a result of non-canon events. In other words, is he a secret villain, or a (very) misguided hero?
That’s a VERY big question that we will most likely not be able to answer, but we try to give multiple explanations in the next video!
He’s been set up for a ‘what have I done!!’ Moment in the next film for sure.
Almost invariably a misguided hero, I think. There's probably a secret "real" villain of the Spiderverse we haven't seen yet, maybe the Miguel who "Died" or something along those lines.
@@SisterRosesince we see Peter and MJ’s wedding is a canon event I’m personally thinking it’s Mephesto cause he caused OMD and other things that would interfere with so called “canon events”
@@SisterRose isn't Spot already the main villain though?
Miguel isn't lying, his just wrong, his consumed with guilt and over reacting. But you are right breaking Canon doesn't break the Universe, what breaks the universe are incursions. You gained a subscriber.
No, it's not incursions. If it had been, Miles Universe, Earth 1610 should have been destroyed when Peter B , Gwen and other Spiderman changed so many thing in ITSV.
yup
@@sakshii20 for an incursion to occur a person must try to take the place of their Variant in their variants universe. Miguel was living in the place of a dead Miguel. Or like with Dr. Strange, Dream Walking in their Variant’s body. You’re right simply visiting another universe isn’t a problem.
More like Miguel's universe was wiped from existence when Kingpin fired up that machine in the first film. Miguel was saved due to Peter's Spider-Human hybrid DNA getting in there.
@@dustinmaxwell259huh
I don't think Miguel is lying. I think he doesn't know. He was in such an emotional state that he clined in the nearest explanation, the canon events, and never questioned it
And because of that, now other people have to suffer for his false convictions.
He is misinformed
@@ratsmans5644 he can’t really be misinformed because he was the one who came up with the theory.
@@t-rexcellentreviews1663 the info is the bad stuff making bad theories is my poont
Yeah I think he a good guy. He just might be wrong in his thinking
Gwen doesn't recognize Miguel's spiderman suit as a spiderman suit when she first meets him. She was being jokey calling him blue panther and such but I think she genuinely didn't recognize him as a spiderman. And spider-people are supposed to be able to sense each other on site. Case closed.
But also I think Miguel blames himself for failures easily and has a lot of self hatred which lead him to believe it was his fault that universe collapsed. I don't think he's lying. Just wrong.
I wouldn’t say case closed. Just because he isn’t detected by spidey sense immediately, doesn’t mean he isnt a Spider-Man. It could simply be because of the manually modified, instead of organically modified genes. We don’t know for certain thought
Miguel doesn't have a spider sense and the only way spider people know each other is because of the spidey sense
Gwen seems to have a special link with Miles but she also sensed the other spider-people in ITSV. That said, I think the spider-person that is being sensed has to also have the sense.
spidermna 2099 is'nt the traditinal spiderman, yall forget the real spiderman existed in his dimension, so the actual spiderman already has his canon events, miguel is just a guy who replictad spidermans powers and has adopted his name, but he is'nt actually a real spiderman in the peter parker sense
@@MiyaMam948yeah
Maybe Miguel got so traumatized by what happened to him so he got obsessed with controlling "canon events" in the multiverse because he doesn't want to see it happen again. That's what I think.
Facts he’s not a bad guy, my favorite is miles but I don’t hate Miguel, he lost his daughter twice and is still somewhat a good guy. He’s just blinded he can’t see things like miles, he doesn’t even try cause he’s so scared to take the chance
Ditto. He thinks he caused the destruction. He doesn't know it was Kingpin's doing. Maybe he'll finally get that family in the end.
@@dustinmaxwell259agreed, I hope he gets a happy ending because he is so sad
@@GladwinAbel He only lost his daughter once. In *his* original universe he didnt have a family, but in the universe he replaced himself in he did. Also, if I remember it right, he didnt stay there for long, maybe a month or two until it broke apart
@AbbyAZK It only says he found a univerde where he was happy
The writers made it so Miguel is wrong whether they meant to or not. He explains how canon events need to happen and changes are anomalies that shouldn’t exist. Miguel explained how miles shouldn’t have become Spider-Man which lead to spot being created which makes spot and everything he does anomalies. And we see that Jeff is going to die because Spot kills him. So Jeff’s death should be an anomaly and Miguel should be trying to help miles save his dad instead of trying to make sure Jeff dies because his death isn’t a canon event
A hundred times this
@nicholasfloyd1289 Tip for life: Never "re-tell" to someone what "they are supposed to mean", you just get people to hate you.
Trust, they're a top-tier writing team. I say this as a writer and cinephile, if that matters at all. But even if it doesn't, every thing is intentional when it comes to film in particular because they're limited on time. Everything needs to serve a purpose, and a writing/direction/production team at this level is going to make sure not to waste anything. So, they meant for him to be wrong, in part because (as they said) Miguel represents the part of the fandom who feel that Miles shouldn't exist. He's speaking for them. So, even though it doesn't make sense when you really think about it and start to pick it apart, he's convinced. That's the fandom. And it's intentional.
@@lowgpu1687simplifications and paraphrasing: guess everybody hates me now.
Because there's literally no point in doing so. I remember quite a few times in school, there would be a kid who always "simplified" what someone said, it pissed everyone off. My dad also had a boss who did the same, and nobody liked him because of it.
Why "simplify" what they say when you already know what they mean? There's no point, it just looks very pretentious.@nicholasfloyd1289
I'd argue Miguel does NOT have spider-sense, indicated by his fight with the Renaissance-Vulture. If he had a spider-sense, he would've been able to at least somewhat anticipate Vulture's blast (the "Knock yourself out" bit with Gwen) and was instead it dead-on because he couldn't anticipate the attack
he doesn't have it. It's common knowledge (amongst Spider-Man fans); he has enhanced sight, smell, and hearing instead.
Yea he's more of a human spider then he is q spiderman he has vemon in his fangs that can paralize people he has retracting claws to climb on walls and super human senses and organic webbing
@@bradwoods371 Not common knowledge among Spider-man fans but Spider-man 2099 fans.
Yeah
@@hat_sauce3846the only thing I knew about Spider-Man 2099 before the movie was his real name and that's about it
To be fair, Miguel could be a Tarantula Man, as tarantulas have more prominent fangs and have claws instead of sticking to walls.
His fangs paralyze and he uses his claws to climb. He doesn't have a spidey sense, it's in his comic.
I do think Miguel is wrong and we're supposed to be able to figure that out, but I don't think he's lying. I think he is genuinely mistaken about canon events and what causes universes to become unstable. He's just too traumatized and too convinced he's correct to consider any other possibilities.
And maybe through Miles’ actions he will start to see the other possibilities
@@matthewisguy7336 He will. Gwen saw that it's all possible through her dad stepping down as a captain and her universe not imploding. So Miles will convince Miguel.
Lying to yourself is still lying and for all we know Miguel messing with his canon had nothing to do with why his adopted universe broke apart, sometimes things just break, even universes.
@@t-rexcellentreviews1663 Exactly. I don’t believe he’s the reason why his family died, it was something else that did his former universe in.
Miguel isn’t at fault for it, but he believes he is. Miles will show him that he wasn’t responsible for what happened and that he can be a hero again.
Correct. It’s easier for Miguel to accept that he has to lose his daughter instead of him failing to save her.
I’ve been very suspicious of Miguel since I heard him explain that he coincidentally found out that another version of himself died and had a family…it seemed more like he was actively searching for that universe. And I think there was a bit more…”involvement” in how that version of himself died. In a lot of ways it very eerily mirrors the kingpins motives in the first movie. Maybe this is our first clue on who this version of Miguel really is?
He didn’t really “coincidentally” find a version he just said he found a version
oooh that is a good one... he is his universes kingpin. I too wondered why he was looking at other universes. Was he looking for a family or was he just looking out of curiosity or for another reason.
So we all know that Miles Morales is not a anomaly But he did make some mistakes so but still Miguel O’Hara is wrong. I think he should be tarantula man instead of Spider-Man.
How does O Hara know about miles spider not being from his universe?. I thought before it was ms dr octavious in miles world that brought it over. Cause kingpin had her testing the machine. But the collider thing must’ve ran only 2 times. So a higher technology from miguels dimension must’ve been doing multidimensional work long before this. Then later on the watches were in full development. but maybe it was miguel by mistake that brought the spider. And so he monitored any multiversal events in a way combing through making sure his accident didn’t make other accidents. cause at the end of the first movie hes basically getting a report on what happened on miles dimension. “Like few that was a close one “. But he gets confident starts spider society. Then hunts down the guy that killed his double idk. Sony needs to make this movie already.
. And also why doesn’t the spider dna glitch in miles body why do his powers work perfectly though the spider clearly glitches in the first movie?
My theory for what happened to the Dead Miguel universe was that if he was murdered, his death would have encouraged further investigation, which wouldn't happen if he's still alive. Iirc, Miguel worked for Alchemax, so that investigation was perhaps *supposed* to stop a Collider Event but never happened because Miguel was alive and well.
Too busy playing house, 2099 missed the true causes behind the world melting.
I really like this
I feel like a lot of people are misunderstanding spider sense as a power, it's not a sense used to detect people or find out where they are, it alerts spiderman to oncoming danger and allows him to react faster. Miguel doesn't have a spider sense in the comics he just has incredible reflexes
This movie spawned so many new Spider-Man fans who haven’t read the comics. They think Miguel isn’t who he say he is, simply because he doesn’t have spider senses. Despite also not having it in the comics and being a good guy.
I do agree that there’s something fishy about the spider society. We have to wait until the third movie to fully see the truth.
@@ExoticZah What do you think is fishy about the spider society?
I dont think miguel is the actual 2099. Too many differences power wise. He could have gotten his dna spliced with the actual spider man 2099 (somehow), and thats why he doesnt have the same powers. Dude could be confusing himself into believing hes a spider man
@@barbararab6390Miguel is Spider-Man 2099. His powers are different because he wasn't bitten by a radioactive spider. His genetic code was spliced with spider DNA. I don't know why they gave him red energy webs. He was the first Spider-Man to have organic webbing.
Another important detail is Peter b Parker only had a child simply because he was inspired by miles. Peter b changed as a person thanks to miles and would have been different if he didn’t met him but also it doesn’t effect his world even tho may Parker his daughter is an anomaly
How is she an anomaly?
@@derrickdaniels3955without an outside influence Mayday wouldn’t exist
@@Gamfluenthe wasnt saying its a bad thing
Not only that, but Mayday is LITERALLY another "Spiderman," with powers and everything, and even gets a suit when she's older. She's Peter's daughter in some of the comics too, meaning that yes, a world CAN have more than one Spiderman.
@@Gamfluent From the explanations we get in the movie Anomalies nearly always lead to breaks in canon, and a universe's events being majorly influenced by forces from other universes are what really causes the collapse, with canon events being ways to identify things that should not be changed as to not lead to this disruptions that cause collapses. What's weird is Miles universe practically bent over backwards to correct itself for him and his existence. The problem for this comes from the fact that Miles' spider ending up in the wrong universe, caused that universe's spider bite to never happen and no spider-man to exist, which by all definition should be a canon event, which proves that canon events aren't the full story to what causes universes to collapse. Miles' own universe seemingly gave him 2 Uncle Ben esque incidents. He felt responsible for Peter's death but also being completely unable to prevent it, and Peter being the one to inspire Miles to become Spider-man ; and while that Peter never directly gives the great power speech to Miles, we know Miles knows the speech from the comics which from all we know about his universe, Peter as Spider-man probably helped write while embelishing the details of his actual life so no one could learn his secret identity. He then also lost Uncle Aaron, which practically serves the same purpose as Uncle Ben's death, but then this would basically be a canon event happening twice to Miles, which should also disrupt the canon. Not to mention Mile's journey as Spider-man would've never even been possible if not for the influence of those from outside his own reality, which seems really weird since that should also disrupt the canon of Spider-man. We know there is some merit to Miguel saying that breaking canon leads to universes collapsing since we see it happen in the movie twice, but Miles' very existence and his reality's continued existence, as well as the continued existence of Earth-42's universe, should disprove that as both had their timelines wildly altered by other universes either pulling stuff out of them, or stuff from other universes being pulled into them, which by all means should be equivalent to a disruption of the canon, prove that this theory of canon events is incomplete at best.
Put simply there are too many contradictions for Miguel to be 100% correct in his understanding and explanation, but there is also still proof that some of it is right.
Don't know if this is related. Miguel gets triggered whenever someone questions him being Spider-Man. And when Gwen inquires if Miles could actually be an anomaly, Miguel just deflects it by saying "You want to find out?".
I feel like if Miguel's cannon event theory was right the captain would have started to glitch and disappear since his death was pav's 'cannon' event but he didn't. I'd say that's pretty solid evidence to say Miguel's view on cannon events are skewed.
Can't wait for the 3rd movie to tell us/ confirm or debunk the community theory's!
"Mr. Fisk, if we fire again this week, there could be a black hole under Brooklyn" - says Doc oc.
Meanwhile in Mumbattan: Spot fires the collider, we see a quantum hole (which I believe is a black hole) under the bridge.
Coincidence? I don't think so.
Consequences of disrupting a canon event? Don't think so either.
Nice catch!
No hate, but you kinda got it a bit wrong when you said Event ASM-90 was meant to imply an ordering system.
It's actually called ASM-90 because it's an event from Amazing Spider-Man Issue 90.
Love your channel btw
Thanks! This is however, still a type of ordering system. If it refers to issue 90 (which I didn’t realize until your comment) that’s still an ordering system in itself
@@RemGames Oh yeah. Didn't really think about that... huh. Oh well, still glad to be helpful in a sense.
Keep up the good work, mate. 👍
@@RemGames When Gwen was notified that she broke the canon event, you can see ASM-90 at the top-left of the screen.
I don't think Miguel is lying, but it's more likely that he simply just doesn't understand what is going on in the multiverse as he should be more worried about INCURSIONS rather than “BREAKING THE CANON” as INCURSIONS are much worse where one or both universes colliding with one another gets destroyed.
when I first watched the movie and I heard Miguel say "Your the original anomaly" I immediately thought. "Isn't Miguel technically an anomaly?
That Miguel O Hara is an absolute spider 2099 menace
3:09 he also didn't sense the villan from the begining of the movie when he charged at him from behind, and got hit as Gwen moved out of the way.
Good point!
@@RemGamesyour completley wrong on so many levels and you did not do enough research for this video, you should of noticed this easily
@@bk5meal834chiiiill lmfao
@@number420dad i mean, they're not wrong. the dude most likely hasn't read Miguel's comics, whuch have clearly stated all the things he mentioned, miguel doesn't have spider sense and tge likes, and tgat is stated, however, he has enhanced hearing, smell and sight, which aid him differently.
another proof that Miguel might not have Spidey sense is the "knock yourself out" part, he couldn't sense Vulture approaching him
he doesnt its pretty much common knowledge he has hightened sight smell and hearing to make up for it
@@jensentrap9823 yea lol
Um 2099's webs are actually organic. And the way he makes up for his lack of spider sense is actually compensated by his accelerated vision giving him a almost 360 range of vision as well as his other heighten senses. Also his fangs are completely his own. Most people are thinking that he's shooting blood webbing, or hard light webbing, due to the way it's able to angle itself.
In the end it just feels like a lot of stretching with no concreted answer. All we can do is wait for the final movie.
For the different color of the web I just think it a style thing kinda like hobie
The colour is probably just a stylistic choice
The first part classifying Miguel as a Spider-Man is shakey, but the rest of it does have validity.
Miguel did say he’s been the only one keeping it all together. He doesn’t explain how he entirely does it tho.
Because he doesn’t have one, he’s lying as much to himself as he is to others around him, him constantly trying to control everything around him can also be considered breaking canon events.
This video is a canon event
Yeha
It was always supposed to happen
@@RemGames It was fate
🤓☝️
I took a canon event in the toilet.
Miguel is NOT lying... he's just wrong about the truth.
I hope that’s the case
It'd be better if the videos would say he's "wrong" instead of "lying." Lying is intentional. Lying would make Miguel a villain, not just an antagonist.
@@LadyAstarionAncuninthey do a good job making him look evil
I think miguil isn't lying because in loki s2 loki sacrifice himself to hold multiverse which would be fine to incursion or something that has been branching like that some cannon isn't going right that he mentioned
@@ANDRISON27FEB Loki is not Spiderverse though... It runs on a completely different set of logic.
I feel like the reason why the universe Miguel replaced himself in glitched out is because he changed the cannon for a selfish reason. He didnt replace himself for the good of it but so that he could have his cake and eat it. The same thing happened when kingpin tried to force his family into his dimension everything started collapsing.
Also when Miguel explains the canon event of a captain dying SAVING A CHILD he literally shows the movie 'the amazing Spider-Man' as an example and captain Stacy in this film doesn't save a child
Miguel is definitely lying and its very obvious Gwen's father retired and didn't become captain ergo breaking a canon event and her universe is still intact and you can even see that she realises this too and that's what motivates her to form a team to help miles face Miguel.
I keep hearing this theory getting passed around that the original Miguel was supposed to be the “Uncle Ben” of that universe that 928-Miguel entered. His daughter was likely supposed to be that universe’s Spider-Woman, but because 928-Miguel essentially stepped in as the replacement, it threw the whole universe out of alignment. He was the original anomaly, and it again reincorporated the trauma and PTSD he has from that ensure that something like that never happens again.
This channel is so underrated
3:25 Actually, in the comics it is said that Miguel does not have Spider-Sense.
This entire Spider-Society, controlling the spiderverse and canon events reeks of something similar to the TVA. I’m feeling that there’s a bigger force at play here. I’m definitely feeling that there’s someone orchestrating all of this , someone is lying to Miguel about how the multiverse works, similar to Revona in Loki. So far both movies have been “Approved by the Comics Code Authority”, so I’d love it if they actually made it a real thing that’s controlling what can and can’t happen, which would be a great meta narrative about the actually comics code authority. Calling it now, the next movie is going to say “NOT approved by the comics code authority”
"someone is lying to Miguel about how the multiverse works" there's a theory about Lyla being the antagonist here...(possibly)
Miguel is wrong about miles. In Miguel's words, miles might not be a spider man, but at least miles Is like the other spider people, and It is not miles fault, but miles is the best spider-man in the two movies
3:21 oh no my god he is right Miguel isn’t Spider-Man
Another point of Miguel having no spider sense could be the scene on earth 67. 67s spider sense as well as Miguels sense don't activate resulting in spiderman 67 asking: "who the hell are you?" after Miguel already told him that he was spiderman.
In the comics he doesn't have spider sense. It's his thing. He is genetically bonded to a spider so a proper half-man, half spider. He can't climb walls but has enhanced senses and organic webbing.
miguel doesnt have spider sense, he got hit in the beginning of the movie without even knowing that paper guy was behind him
yeah, miguel doesn't have spidey sense. it's his thing, he's an actual half human half sp8der. he's supposed to have organic spider webs, so idk why he wasn't given, but he has enhanced hearing, smell and sight
3:25 i'm not 100% sure this is how spidey sense works anyway but in the begining of the movie gwen tricks him to get hit by that vulture varian because he doesn't have a spidey sense
Miguel is definitely a weirder Spider. Virtually every misgiving against Miles other than the Earth 42 spider can also be applied to Miguel, like weird spider powers that other Spiders lack or being someone who is neither a varient of Peter or someone adjacent to Peter.
Although, I do think there is an error in this theory, mainly the universe destabilization.
1. There was nothing stating the universes imploding from broken canon had anything to do with the universes trying to repair the anomalies, but rather that breaking canon itself tears them apart. The way I see it based on the movie's presentation: reality is a fabric, not an organism. Pull a thread too much and you unravel it and it has no ability to heal itself. The pulling of the thread in this case is the anomaly exerting influence on the course of a universe, like say replacing yourself after the other you died. An anomaly existing is merely the start, their influence is the pull that unravels. That in mind, the Spider Society doesn't appear to make a habit of leaving Miguel's tower in Nueva York, meaning that even with hundreds of Spiders present at any given time, very few of them are exerting what would be deemed harmful influence, and the ones that are likely aren't any worse than the excess Spiders from Into the Spiderverse were on Miles's world.
2. That said, there is a potential common element to known destabilizations that it doesn't appear you've considered and may bolster your theory. In Into the Spiderverse the environmental glitches were from Kingpin's collider. In Mumbattan, you rightfully pointed out that the glitches seem to be realited to the Spot's lingering portals. So what about the imploded Nueva York? Well, both of the previous destabilization incidents were directly tied to crossing the multiverse. What if the other Nueva York was destrohed not by broken canon, but by Miguel's prototype Spider Society watch like he had at the end of Into? It could well be that a combination of trauma, rationalization, and missing information led to Miguel's theory of canon and stopped him from seeing his own tech was the real cause. That's my theory anyway.
Miguel is a variant of Miles
@@PraiseIfoghale-ki2xqNo he’s not, Spider-Man 2099 has existed long before Miles has, him being a variant wouldn’t make any sense
12:15 it's not something that happens in an order
it's just a reference to The Amazing Spider-Man issue 90, where George Stacy dies
Miguel isn't lying because when he showed how his family died he showed Peter was there.
And when Miguel talked about the dangers of breaking the canon he referred to Peter during the incedent and Peter said "yeah". So we know he's not lying because there's eye witness accounts.
Not every antagonist is a bad guy everyone trying to prove Miles is right and Miguel is the bad guy. But in this situation there are no real clear good guys or bad guys except spot.
Think about it if he has those intense amazing holograms he and lilia make there is a slim chance he made this. Also if the spider society wasn’t formed yet why were Peter and him in the same universe
@@thespiderWow Maybe Peter B Parker was one of the first recruits
@@thatonkgau5221 but the reason Miguel started the spider society was because of that universe collapsing so that doesn’t line up
Miguel isn't lying, he just thinks its the truth. I'm betting its a misunderstanding of the situation, and that they're making assumptions based on what happened. In Beyond the Spiderverse we'll probably learn more of what actually caused the world to crumble, and its probably not as simple as just "breaking the canon."
@@lasercraft32 exactly
I’ve been saying this the whole time. He may not be lying, but he is wrong. The whole thing with him is very sus, he said it himself, “ the harder I tried, the more damage I did.” He did more than just replace Miguel. Also, he’s wrong about Miles being an anomaly. The spider not being from his dimension and biting Miles, should’ve broken the canon and broken both universes and the whole first movie wouldn’t have happened, but it did.
3:34 Actually, in the scene where gwen, miguel, and (later on) spiderwoman are fighting the renaissance vulture we can see miguel not being able to sense the vulture attacking him from behind. This proves that he doesn't have a spidey sense.
everybody's always 'oh miles is right or' 'oh miguel is right' when we don't have any confirmation of any of this until beyond is out
ATSV literally has three examples of breaking canon doesn't end realities...Miles, Alt Miles and George Stacy.
Miguel is right about Miles tho he's 100% Not Spider-Man he's an Anomaly and destined to be The Prowler.
This dark Garfield 💀
The canon event where miles’ dad dies is caused by spot, meaning the canon event wouldn’t happen if he hadn’t “broken” the canon in the first place
I don’t understand how Miguel explaining to Miles that his dad is going to die doesn’t automatically break the canon event. I would think that each Spider-Man has to experience that kind of catastrophic loss, plus the sudden shock of it, in person. Which is made worse by the fact that each Spider-Man was actively trying to save their person. It’s that failure that initiates growth.
Does that make sense? I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around that concept and I’m not sure it’s worth exploring or if I’m trying to go too deep with it.
Something to back your point up the only time a canon event is shown to be broken is when another spider person intervenes as shown with Pavitr Prabhakar. If Miguel just let Miles go there would be no way for him to break the canon.
also we see insomniac peter in the room with all of the villains which means that the insomniac games are canon to spider verse which breaks the idea that peter died because miles had to be spider man since in those games peter and miles coexist and work together a lot
Part 2 here: ruclips.net/video/B0zouERfRqY/видео.html
Part 2 will finish many of the ideas started in this video so make sure to stay updated for that!
If you any any information that could either prove or disprove this theory, make sure to comment it so I can take a look!
you had a great idea delving into the comics for answers, but it also reveals that he does not have any senses. Maybe go and read the comics more, to possibly reveal something new? For example, the suit in the movie looks like incredible technology, while the comics say its unstable molecules. There seem to besome inconsistencies in the comics, but the majority seems to check out
@@mr.commonsense It is true that in the comics he doesn’t really have a Spider-Sense. I don’t want to rely TOO much on the comics, but as it is his origin, I could definitely mention it!
@@RemGames yeah, that was my point when I said there seemed to be inconsistenties.
When miguel said that miles killed spiderman of his universe he forgot about ps5 spider man and miles
When will we get part 2?
Will point out, Miguel does have organic webbing per the comics.
However he also has access to advanced technology. Webbing is arguably not a major issue.
Also per at least the early comics he has hugely enhanced reflexes and perception, but no precognitive sense that I'm aware of.
You made some amazing points that I didn't think about in regards to the Peter B. situation and how it relates to Miguel's. Seen plenty of people arguing for Miguel's side online and I feel like that pokes such a huge hole in that argument. Can't wait for the next episode!
I think you got it wrong. Miguel didn't say ,,When a Spiderman replace a desth one the universe will be destroyed " he said that the universe was destroyed because he replaced a death version of himself. But then it will be most likely if the alive version was destroyed not the univese... Something makes me wonder if Miguel is an anomaly like Miles
Love the video but I dont think Tony is a captain. In Age of Ultron he pointed out that Captain America was in charge and that he just paid for everything and made everyone look cool. I could be wrong though
Did Miguel just guess that Miles' father was going to die?
Probably.
btw if Miguel's world started collapsing before he knew about cannon events why were peter parker and other spider people with wristbands there? what was the spider society doing in the multiverse before his world died?
Probably researching the multi verse and trying to find out why it was unstable, he probably thought his coming to that universe is what destroyed it. He never makes it clear if this is the 1st time a universe died like this, it probably isn't, he was probably looking into why this was happening recruited fellow spiders to help, then the universe with his daughter dies and that leads to the movie events.
Returning the strays of the multiverse
Also when Miguel says how he once broken a cannon event he says how he replaced a dead version of him self and the universe collapsed while miles universe Peter died and miles replace him and it didn’t collapse yet
This makes no sense
Also if we assume the cannon event happens like atleast 2 days or a week after the people got bit by a spider the Indian universe should’ve been collapsing already because indains spider man didn’t go through a cannon event so if the universe didn’t experience a cannon event it should collapse
The entire idea of a “canon event” doesn’t align with the entire point of the multiverse, which is a huge what if something went differently, I think Miguel replacing his dead self caused an incursion like in multiverse of madness
Miguel is lying. Miguel is a damb vampire 😂
About the point of the spider bite being the most important canon event:
I think the main thing here is that the canon is fully intersected *with* the spider person. The canon is not something bound to a reality, but rather a person, so that would explain why earth 42 is fine even without a Spider-Man, or even better off without one with no possibility to break canon.
To be honest I don't think Miguel was far off with his explanation on Miles killing his universe's spider-man. I think he was wrong that you can't have 2 spider-people in the same universe but what he should've said is that you can't have two spider-men CREATED in the same universe as that means that the universe is now bound to two spider-men's canons and so the universe killed off the original spider-man to fix that.
I don’t think Miguel is lying. I just think he doesn’t have a grasp on understanding what happened to the universe where he tried to have a family. When I first saw it I was thinking it was Thanos. Anyway, by his own logic Miles universe should be unraveling at a horrendous rate all by itself anyway. Technically he, nor Spot are part of the original canon and Spot is a multiverse level threat. If Spot isn’t canon, then that also means that Jeff Morales’ death from Spot isn’t canon.
Hm, yeah, while I wouldn’t say that Miguel is necessarily lying per se, things sure just doesn’t add up with the whole "Canon Events" thing, I hope we’ll explore it more in the Next Film.
To be honest I don't think Miguel was far off with his explanation on Miles killing his universe's spider-man. I think he was wrong that you can't have 2 spider-people in the same universe but what he should've said is that you can't have two spider-men CREATED in the same universe as that means that the universe is now bound to two spider-men's canons and so the universe killed off the original spider-man to fix that.
@@Whysp hm, that could be a possibility.
my interpretation is;
there are no anomalies, canon events are real but not as specific as miguel thinks they are with the growth of the spider-man being key, and miguels universe collapse was caused by prolonged meaningful influence of a non-universe-native being(himself).
for the canon events:
Spider bite = dna mutation into spide-like aspects, explaining difference in expression of powers with web/spider-sense/strength just being the most common and why Miguel is a spider-man even without a spider bite.
uncle ben death = close relationship death, why it varies between family members or people who are essentially seen as family like gwens peter.
captain death = death of a role model/authority figure sacrificing themselves for another, just happens to often be a police captain because spider-man is usually small scale in their relationships with people in power, friendly neighbourhood spider-man and all that, I believe Miles captain death has already happened and it was his worlds original spider-man saving miles by telling him to leave before kingpin showed up.
or none of this matters and Tinfoil hat theory: Canon events aint shit. Miguel is actually an anomaly himself and knows it, and somehow also knows Miles is the only one that can stop him because multiverse/time travel reasons hes seen it before or something and is, coming full-circle, pulling a kingpin trying to bring back his family through universe smooshing together but more well-informed about multiverse shenanigans than Kingpin was.
I don't think Miguel is intentionally misleading all the other spider people. I think this is what he truly believes. Obviously he's made some wrong assumptions about what causes universes to get destroyed and I hope he realizes this in the next movie. Its gonna devastate him and the other spider people that followed him after learning they really didnt need to stand by and let some people die.
In the original comic, Miguel has no Spidey-senses. So you would be on the money there.
I don't think he was saying that Miles being Spider-Man is on that level why 42 doesn't have a Spider-Man, but that the spider that gives them powers will only ever bite one person, and since it bit Miles, instead of someone in 42, 42 can't have a Spider-Person unless another universe loses one.
To be honest I don't think Miguel was far off with his explanation on Miles killing his universe's spider-man. I think he was wrong that you can't have 2 spider-people in the same universe but what he should've said is that you can't have two spider-men CREATED in the same universe as that means that the universe is now bound to two spider-men's canons and so the universe killed off the original spider-man to fix that.
I think a lot of these holes can be attributed to the fact that Miguel doesn’t know any of this for a fact. He’s a scientist, and this is his big theory and since no one else has disproved his theory, his hypothesis and testing has been confirmed already in his eyes. It’s like if someone made a video essay critiquing a movie that hadn’t been released yet. If the cast and crew of the movie don’t correct it, and the person making the video essay is the only other one who knows about it, the criticism can be assumed/taken as facts
I would just like to point out that the amount of time spent in the wrong universe effects how 'broken' the canon gets. Dr Octavia mentioned it; that the glitching will get worse until eventually it's ripped apart completely. Miguel could have broken his universe because he spent a significant amount of time there, likely years by how attached to his family he got.
Peter however only spent like half a day in Miles' universe.
You forgot Peter also pointed out that Miguel is the only one that’s not funny
4:37 Hey, did anyone else notice the green things attaching themselves TO Miguel's blood (and maybe DNA)? Also, this might be an unimportant detail, but Miguel seems to have red AND blue blood cells in him. Think that might be important?
Well that's a shot to keep him in check, because in the comics Miguel is tricked by his boss to get him addicted to the spiderman DNA. Which is why Miguel doesn't have normal spiderman powers. Miguel is literally mixed with spider and human DNA.
He's 50% spider DNA (from the comics).
@@theshaggs4023 He wasn't tricked to get addicted to Spider-Man DNA; he was tricked to get addicted to Rapture. The infusion of spider DNA came later when a colleague tried to take his life.
Miguel didn't just exist in an alternative universe. He took the role of a dead miguel as if he's still alive. Peter B Parker simply exist in miles' universe, he didnt take the mantle of the dead spiderman nor live as him and took control of his dead legacy. Peter B Parker simply exist in miles' universe as consequence of being taken there thats why hes glitching as well as Gwen. Miguel on the other hand took control, i think that was breaking a canon and not saving inspector singh, miles just delayed a canon event or change the scene of an event but inspector singh will later die because traumatic event shapes a spidey. If miles save inspector singh on that exact moment, he will still die later if its a canon event just like doctor strange not ending up with christine
I don't think Miguel is lying but instead not informed well cause it's obvious he blames himself for that "broken canon" incident with how he's putting it on himself for causing that universe to collapse when there is totally so much more to the story. He's using "canon events" as an excuse to cope and relief some the self-guilt he put on himself.
miguel actually DOES NOT have spider-sense cuz in the first 30mins of the movie he didnt sense the anomaly rushing at him
An interesting detail is that Miguels squad at the end is made up of non typical spider people, neather, Miguell, Jassica nor Ben have typical spiderman origin storys.
i think i like the idea that miguel is clinging to the idea of canon events because in a way it's a justification of the trauma he and by extension every other spider person went through. because if their trauma doesn't make them better people, that would just mean they were hurt and now have to live with it. it's like he doesn't want to confront that life happens and things go wrong all the time. our trauma and our scars don't have a set reason for happening, they just do and we live with it. there is no deeper meaning in them and we try so hard to justify them but it doesn't truly exist
I'm pretty sure that the "Uncle ben moment" is just used as a general term so describe a spider person's personal tragedy, and not the hyper specific moment of a uncle or family member dying. kind of like how people saw aunt may's death in no way home as Peter's "uncle ben moment" even thought she was obviously not uncle ben.
Miguel doesnt have spidey sense, the normal spiderperson senses when danger is near or something isnt right but in the scene with the paper vulture, gwen expects him to sense the vulture by saying stuff to hint at it, but throughout the movie we never once seen him use spidey senses. he just relies on quick reflexes
So I think the creators intentionally named canon invents canon events instead of fixed points because fixed points might be unique to each separate universe and canon events are supposed to occur in every universe
They also named them "canon events" to take a swipe at the subset of the fandom that's hateful about canon (thus, rejecting Miles outright because he's not Peter Parker) or just obsessed with it considering that there have been so many interation of Spider-Man and so many restarts and off-shoots of the story that there's no single version that's "canon."
Miguel organically produces silk as written in the comics. He also does not a Spidey sense at all in the comics
Given Peter B. Parker's relatively low screentime for this movie I believe the writers are planning something for him in BTSV. One detail I thought of that you wrote was how Peter B. was in the universe that Miguel lost his daughter too was wearing a watch. Given that in ITSV Peter B. knew nothing about alternate universes, how did Peter B. manage to get to that universe in the first place? Why would Peter B. even be in that universe in the first place? (given that he also was raising a child and that Miguel most likely stayed for a long period of time in order to form a bond with his daughter).
Since ITSV and ATSV take place 1 year between each other and we see Miguel testing the watch in the end credit scene in ITSV, we can assume that the spider society formed between that gap (which is alarmingly fast). And since Miguel only formed the spider society AFTER the universe was destroyed then Peter B. must've been invited pretty early on--even before the creation of the Spider Society. This means that Peter B. may be one of the founding members of the Spider Society, and why he has such a close relationship with Miguel. I believe Peter B. was in that Universe because he wants adventure given how calm his own universe is after being 22+ years as Spiderman; He even tells his wife that this is "work" to him--implying that his own universe is empty of it.
In fact given how Mayday Parker is not even supposed to exist. It makes me wonder if HE will be the one that exposes Miguel's misinformed theory.
I thought the thumbnail was a game theory video. Good job!
This theory definitely makes sense. That not all Universes will crumble in the way how Miguel's universe did.
Another thing with Miles trying to save his family members. If Miles’ Spidey Senses triggered as Kingpin was about to rise his gun and kill Aaron Miles’ would push Aaron out of the way before the bullet hit Aaron which would have resulted in breaking his own canon event. With failing to keep his uncle alive, Miles sure wants to save his dad wanted but, it’s termined either his dad or his mom who could died. Like Miguel said ”you can’t have it all.”
That's a lot of reach and misunderstanding here.
I don't think Miles is breaking the canon at all. Literally everything that's happened to him so far is canon!
Interesting comment, I feel like whatever happens in life is meant to happen, it doesn't just "accidentally happen", maybe there is a reason why miles was armed with the knowledge of his dad possibly dying to the spot if he becomes captain.
yeah.
@@lowgpu1687 Him getting bit by that Spider from another dimension is a canon event.
Him meeting Gwen is a canon event.
Him challenging Miguel is also a canon event.
Oh, yeah... Mayday is also canon.
I can only confirm the last theory, because in the first one, if Peggy is Tony's mother, then why didn't he come to her funeral in Captain America: Civil War; Maria Stark is his actual mother. In the second theory, if Natasha was alive then Loki would also be alive, right? The ones who were dusted were the only one to come back by the snap of Hulk. I can only agree with the third theory as the train be the one in which in that timeline/ universe, Spiderman 2 couldn't stop.
Bro does not know what he’s talking abt 💀
Miles canon event is to break his dads canon event😂
migeul could have two types of webbing: multiversal webbing (the red omega beam "webs") and normal webs maybe organic maybe the mwebs act as a day pass for the villain's they are trying to capture we didnt see that much of miguel's webbing in the grand run time of the movie so we gotta wait and see
0:06 marvel spider man 2 ps5 2023
and a new story begins
I think Miguel killed his doppelganger, variant? I don't know but I think he killed him and replaced him in their reality and that's what caused it to break down. And he's lying cuz he doesn't want the other spider people to know what he did.
Interesting idea! I’ll definitely look into that!
Miguel is literally a hero??? What are you talking about
It is confirmed (from what I've heard) post credits Miguel from the first movie is this Miguel. Anyways 2 big bads are gonna make things messy when Spot already exists.
Did bro just say sacrilegious 2:35 😂😂😂
bro is NOT matpat
stfu its a good video
he never said he was. and anyone can make a theory. even mattpat said that
@@pixel_YT74 its the thumbnail
@@ImLucasStuff ohh i see what you mean
Miguel: TWO SPIDER MEN AREN'T ALLOWED
Also insomniac: let's just put two spidermen in one game
Miguel does nothing
Miguel definitely doesn’t have spider sense not only does he not have it in the comics but it is also shown in the movie when he first appears. Vulture is about to attack him from behind and he could not sense it at all
Miguel isn't a real hero, he's more of a villian
**insert car throw scene**
Spider man 2099 states himself he can’t use spidy sense properly
idk if anyone mentioned it, but miguel speaking about how his family died and then finding another version of his family in a world where he died reminds me of the first movie where kingpin was searching for another version of his own family due to his inability to accept it. i’m thinking maybe miguel was like his earth’s kingpin, created something like a collider, trying to fill the void of his dead family without confronting the finality of their fates. because he himself couldn’t get away with it, as he was disrupting an entire world’s existence just by his presence, he refuses to allow anyone to have happy lives / a happy ending in their OWN world. i’m too tired to elaborate on my theory but i’m really thinking about it hard 🤨
Miles needs to explain Miguel like this.