I came to the conclusion that I needed a new high end interface with good converters and plenty of analog ins and outs, before I started to mix my new album. I got in touch with Antelope Audio and they sent me their Orion32+|Gen3 I/O Converter. With that and another SSL SiX I can now mix everything out in the analog domain, with my outboards patched in. Check out the Antelope Orion32+ here: bit.ly/3xqiQHN I hardware sequence some of the separate tracks for each song, those are sent to the Fostex Model80 8-track analog tape machine and those tracks are then recorded into the DAW. To get some analog saturation into it all. In Cubase (my DAW for this project) I line up all the stems and tracks I need, and then pump that out through the analog outputs, and into two SSL SiX mixers which has the outboard effects- and processors hooked up. Then I mix down the tracks. If I need some internal effects processing I can do that inside the Orion32 too, with an array of plugins, without taking processing power from the computer. "Ethical statement* I researched all the suitable interfaces there is, in today's market, and when it comes to superb conversion, 24 or 32 analog ins AND outs, ADAT, SPDIF, and real-time effects, there's not many different models to choose from. In my opinion it was the Orion32+|Gen3 that ticked all the boxes when it came to my needs and desires. So it was I that contacted Antelope to hear if they'd be interested in exposure on my channel for this interface, not vice versa. Support this channel on Patreon: www.patreon.com/espenkraft Find my music here: iTunes Apple music: apple.co/35ZTdfR Spotify: spoti.fi/38aoWMB Bandcamp: espenkraft.bandcamp.com/ Google Play: bit.ly/2NrgXD9 Find my patches and sample packs through these links: thepatchbay.co.uk/product/tal... sound7.co.uk/products/italo-d... 00:00 Why I needed more gear for mixing 01:26 Hardware Midi sequencing 02:38 Recording to analog tape 03:45 Antelope Orion32+|Gen3 I/O 05:09 SSL SiX - Two of them now! 06:12 The Patchbay setup 07:34 Transferring from tape -through transformer preamps 08:11 The virtual routing matrix (patchbay) 08:45 Inside the DAW - Routing 10:01 Recording in the DAW - From tape 11:01 Patching in outboards 12:29 Let's mix it! 14:59 Real time effects inside the Orion 18:35 Conclusions
Great to see the older equipment getting used still, but in a more modern usable configuration. Tape does indeed sound good. I played a few cassettes the other day and there is something about the sound you just don't get from digital. I encourage people to dig out there old tapes and try this, you will be surprised. I was instantly transported back. On certain projects, I like to mix down at quite a hot level to an old (but good) Revox B77 then reprint back to digital for finalising. Glad to know your final release will be available in cassette. I will certainly be buying it. Love what you're doing Espen. Keep it up . Great Stuff!
Hi Espen, what I like about this video, is that you’re showing a very smart way to combine eighties technology with the latest digital technology. You’re doing that in such was that you get an authentic eighties sound while still making use of many advantages of the use of modern technology! I can’t wait to hear your cassette :-)
We who follow your channel are happy to see how much you use oldschool gear! I have my machines and I love making videos about them too, and nothing takes the pleasure out of getting the most out of them! Thank you for keeping such a sensational channel as this one, it's a reference for us. Anyone who wants to know my channel, feel free too, as well as Espen, I love old and good equipment.
Your passion for this subject is so inspiring. You're a rare breed Mr Kraft and I'm glad you're around to keep this thing alive. Thank you for all your efforts.
Glad to see your using your tape machine. It really breaths life into the sound. I just mixed the tracks in the daw and then bounced the track to tape and then back to daw. It sounded the same as recording straight to tape imo.
Antelope Orion + the SSLs is a good setup. I'd have opted for the Big Six (on my list after the OB-X8 and Prophet 10), but there are advantages to having 2 of the Six's as well. That being said, a LOT of 80s albums were recorded digitally, especially synthpop. People assume everything in the 80s was analog tape but that was not always the case. Digital recording was cutting edge and machines like the Sony DTC saw a lot of use, especially in the latter part of the decade. Myself, I started on analog and was relieved with digital recording. Of course, I like a big and clean sounding production.
Bloody hell Espen .... your rough mix sounds way, way better than the full and final mix on the album I'm working on at the moment.... just when I though I had things finally worked out... back to the drawing board :-/
Hello, mate. You're absolutely right. Maybe we don't need to do things this way but we WANT to do things this way! I'm also an old-school composer and music producer and I've recently bought a Tascam Tm-D8000 digital mixer but to use its analog sound. I know people will hear our music (hopefully) using the dirty Mp3 format but I don't care. I will be happy making music with great analog stuff. Nice job and thank you to share it with us!
You know Espen, I think that you buying this gear is in service to this new album of yours. Sometimes, if possible, it can be nice to use different gear or techniques (such as a mostly analog signal path), to get a certain sound for a project. And I do appreciate you are going all in for this one. I have been trying some different ways of making music myself (such as using the famed Korg M01D and Korg DS-10 apps on a Nintendo 3DS). It can just be cool to mess about with that sort of thing. Good work and I cannot wait to hear the full album!
Thanks! Sure, I get that this workflow isn't for everyone and I respect that as well. The most important thing is that we all have the choice to make our music in the way we feel brings out the best in us. Cheers :D
Please keep the drums! They provide a perfect drive to the track.. Also I wouldn't be too hard on yourself using no drums at all - rhythms are an important element of music. Very excited and definitely getting the tape..! Thanks a lot
I do get annoyed sometimes by _The League_ members claiming "you can't hear it anyway!" First, I'm a sound engineer, and random John Doe is likely not. Second, and I know you know this Espen, but everyone else look up harmonics. One might not be able to hear the _thing,_ but you can almost certainly hear how that _thing_ interacts with other things. In fact that's how a lot of our effects processors work. Anyway, if what we're hearing here is representative of what the album will sound like, I'm looking forward to doing some maintenance on my cassette deck to listen to it in proper 80s style. The wow and flutter of that 8-track, light as it is, really gives this an authentic vibe. I love how this combination of relatively "clean" IO and processing can still color the sound in interesting ways when it interacts--a bit like a kaleidoscope. Love it. 👍️
I'm happy with an X32 with Dante card and using the Audinate virtual soundcard to bring into the audio from the mixer into the PC. Network drivers are usually more robust than USB, less CPU interruptions too. Plus you can expand and route to your hearts content.
Hi very good video, but I don't understand how do you connect Six 1 and Six 2.You use Ext-1 of Six 1 and connect to Six 2,but at what input of the Six 2 do you connect it?.Thanks
I know I said it, and I'll stand by it in many of the "songs", but I've come to the conclusion that on some tracks, it's the right decision to add SOME drums. All for the best end result. ;-)
How do you plan to use the G Bus compressors on the two SIXs? Will you compress the first SIX and then compress again with G Bus on the second SIX? Also, any experimentation with the talkback input and compressor as an effect?
On the main SSL, the one feeding out the master stereo, I don't plan to use the G compressor at all. I'm going to use another bus compressor on the master inserts. The inbuilt don't have a sidechain nor the flexibility I need. On the "sub SiX" I might use the G if it's only doing drums, if not I will not use it on that either. I don't use the talkback input and compressor at all.
So rad seeing someone else who is super knowledgable, arrive at a similar conclusion. I also use an analog mixer (Toft ATB), Antelope converters (Zen Tour for now), Cubase (just switched to 12) and analog outboard kit, to make a hybrid set-up. ITB can get really sterile and uninspiring. Your imposed "limitations" are what its all about. Good work Mr Kraft!...or "good Kraft-work"? (sorry...easy dumb joke).
Ultimately it's a tradeoff for me between sound quality, the analog ins and outs and connectivity. The Orion32 was the best on the market. I think it sounds fabulous and the converters are on par with stuff costing the double of this. I also think it matters what kind of music you're recording. If I was to record a grand piano in a concert I might go for a different setup.
The BURL b2 ADC would be awesome for your setup as well. The Antelope is great though. Looking forward to your Album, mate 🤗🥰 and by the way, the FOSTEX is damn sexy 🔥😂
Thanks Thomas. Yes, there are lots of options for converting, but I wanted a "one solution box" that had everything I wanted in one go. Great converters, lots of analog ins and outs, as well as ADAT and more. The Orion32 don't have much competition as such. ;-) Cheers!
@@EspenKraft the Orion is definitely a great choice, Espen. No doubt about it. I was just thinking about the BURL because of your FOSTEX machine. Happy Easter 🐣🐇🐰
Definitely a very musical and good sounding ADC, but as I'm taking the tape output to various gear on it's way in, to dirty it up even more, so to speak, such a costly ADC would be totally wasted imo. Happy Easter to you too! :D
I like the D-Sub connection, too! They're sturdy and let you quickly connect 8 channels all at once. However, it's a love and hate situation for me. I'd like to stress that I only like the ones with the standard TASCAM pinout. It suddenly becomes a nightmare if you have equipment with irregular pinout. There's no way to fix it unless you re-solder the wires... And as you know, the digital D-Sub connection are a complete chaos. There are pinout variations such as Tascam AES, Yamaha AES, Otari, Euphonix, Tascam TDIF-1, Yamaha MEL2 (DMP7 mode), Yamaha MEL2 (DRU8 mode), Roland RBUS just to name a few. Some equipment are input only or output only (i.e. A/D D/A converters), so you have to "split" a D-Sub cable into two. Whoa. Worst of all, these cables all look the same.
Love it! Thanks for this. How crucial to your sound would you say is that step of going through the Golden Age Pre-73 preamps and back? Also, how would you describe the character that you get added to the sound by doing this? Is it a kind of saturation? Is it that Neve "smoothness"? Thanks very much. Excited to see my old MC-500 bought new in 1986 pulling its weight!
It's not crucial, and I don't use them on everything. I use them when I want that saturated transformer "growl" in subtle or not so subtle ways. I wouldn't use them on say, some DX bells. But here, since many sounds are going in and out of tape I will use them quite a lot to augment that analog flavor so to speak. For this album that's being made to sound like a soundtrack to a early 80s B-movie, it will be exactly the right thing. ;-) Cheers
That's a dodgy-looking user-interface on that mixer. It kind of looks like someone just threw a bunch of knobs at it and left them where they landed. It's visually overwhelming. Messy mixer aside, I really like the sounds and songs running through it. Can't wait for the new album to be finished!
How do you clean and protect all of that equipment from dust? All the sliders and knobs with their electrical connections underneath are very susceptible to dust over time. How do you clean/repair the potentiometers if they get affected by dust?
I have a video about dust protection and how I clean my studio and gear. It's an ongoing battle. I have an education in electronics so opening stuff up, if needed, is easy to me.
@@EspenKraft Very nice. I will look for that video. I recently had to take apart a crackling 1990s Mackie mixer and clean every fader and potentiometer. I used DeoxIT F5 followed by their F100L lubricant. Maybe or maybe not the correct things. Everything works noiselessly now, but moves very quickly without any of that creamy feeling resistance it once had.
If you don't mind, a question for Espen, or anybody else who could answer this. At 12:30 in the video, there are some modules in what I presume is Eurorack format. Now modular doesn't interest me, but 19 inch outboard gear does. These modules in the video, do they do the same thing, but in a different format?
Thanks, Espen. That was very interesting. I have been seeking for a way to keep the old conventional workflow: use hardware synths and hardware outboard equipment, record on a multitrack (sometimes reel to reel), mix on a hardware mixer desk, but still able to benefit from the advantages of the DAW. Your setup seems very close to the ultimate solution. I hope I'm seeing it right: you are basically treating the DAW like a standalone 24 track multitrack, and the abundant I/O of the Orion allows you to do so.
Yes, that's the way I use the DAW, except for running some choice plugins as well, like an old fashion tape recorder pumping the tracks out in the analog domain for a tactile approach to mixing, which also make me use my ears more than my eyes. ,-)
This reminds me of some issues that I ran into when trying to use a Lexicon MX300 inside my DAW. It comes with some sort of "virtual GUI" VST plug-in...which - in theory - would allow you to connect the hardware unit to the computer via S/PDIF Digital In/Out so that you can use it as an "outboard plug-in". Sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? But even the more expensive computer mainboards only have an S/PDIF Out connector coming with their internal soundcard. And the audio-interface of my choosing doesn't even have any digital audio connectors at all. I cannot even remember any interface in my budget price range with additional digital in/out connectors. Beside of that the MX300 S/PDIF Digital Input only accepts 44,1 or 48 Khz....while I'm always recording with at least 24 bits/96 Khz (or even higher) for lower latency. So I decided to "let it slide" (despite wasting a lot of potential) and still have the MX300 connected the good old fashioned way (analog...via Aux Send/Aux Returns of my mixing desk). Analog is NOT dead! 😉 My question is: How many ms of audio signal delay does your complex setup cause? And how do you deal with all the latency happening in your setup? 🤔
I remember that MX300 and that connection. I'm not sure how many ms I have in latency as that's really not important to me as I use this rig for mixing only. If I record something, it's just dumping tracks like you see in the video, not in real time.
I've got a PX 2k as well as a couple of PX 3k patch bays. I still struggle to wrap my head around following my own wiring of the bloody things. I've still ended up with a spaghetti junction of cables and I was under the impression patch bays were supposed to make things easier. lol
They do indeed makes things easier if you've made a solid plan beforehand. Out at the top, ins at the bottom etc. And normalled everything that should be. If you don't follow these rules it can sure be a mess. ;-)
Are you going to release this album digitally? I think a cassette release, whilst having a nostalgic sonic character, will not really convey what was laid down, even on the open reel tape. I actually have a half decent turntable (one I used to own as a student back in '88) which I use to digitise old analogue only vinyl, or the rare vinyl releases which are, for whatever reason, superior to the later CD release (due to more care in mastering; higher quality master tape availability, etc). If your going to release analogue only, could you also release on vinyl? 19:14 Typed the above before reaching this timepoint;👍
I've talked about this in greater length in previous videos. Digital and cassette only. Cassette is my number one desire for a physical release. It holds a much greater nostalgic value for me than vinyl. A vinyl release is also much more expensive for me to do, as a one-man-band operation. Unless I win the lottery a vinyl release from me will never see the day.
Sounds Great.I think because your not doing all the work in the DAW it will Sound much more Appealing and Unique.Recording it all in the DAW can make the end results too Generic, Sonically.
This is a very interesting video with nice production values. Substantively, however, the setup is tremendously and unnecessarily complicated. I know it works for you but it is not a useful model for anyone else to use. But it is interesting.
People have been using such a setup for decades. Just replace the DAW with a 24/32 track tape machine and the smaller mixers here with a big console and you're there. ;-)
Sure, you could do all that in the DAW, but if I wanted to watch someone do boring stuff on a computer, I'd watch David Guetta. Don't get me wrong, he's great musician, but entertaining to watch? Not without Kelly Rowland. The way to connect all my gear to my computer is still not resolved. There are interfaces that I might just about afford, there are those outside of my budget range, and then there's the likes of Antelope Audio. Good for you, though. You work hard enough for it.
I thought DSUB to balanced jacks were too expensive. They are really surprisingly expensive. So I decided to make my own. BAD IDEA, soldering DSUB connectors is a total pain in the ass. And a total of 144 soldering points (24 in, 24 out, all times 3) was NOT fun to strip and solder. And of course, 144 cables to strip and solder on the other 1/4" jack side as well, although that was much easier.
@@EspenKraft Probably the best would have been to buy long DSUB to DSUB cables, which aren't THAT expensive, cut them in half and put jacks on them. :-D But, hindsight...
@@RegebroRepairs yes. the shield is common for the entire bundle, and on shielded shells the braiding or foil is mechanically clamped to the shell where the individual conductors exit the strain relief. Cheaper termination may not make contact with the entire shield foil or braid or only connect a drain wire from the wire shield to the shell. individual balanced pairs are still twisted together for high CMRR.
I came to the conclusion that I needed a new high end interface with good converters and plenty of analog ins and outs, before I started to mix my new album. I got in touch with Antelope Audio and they sent me their Orion32+|Gen3 I/O Converter. With that and another SSL SiX I can now mix everything out in the analog domain, with my outboards patched in.
Check out the Antelope Orion32+ here: bit.ly/3xqiQHN
I hardware sequence some of the separate tracks for each song, those are sent to the Fostex Model80 8-track analog tape machine and those tracks are then recorded into the DAW. To get some analog saturation into it all.
In Cubase (my DAW for this project) I line up all the stems and tracks I need, and then pump that out through the analog outputs, and into two SSL SiX mixers which has the outboard effects- and processors hooked up. Then I mix down the tracks.
If I need some internal effects processing I can do that inside the Orion32 too, with an array of plugins, without taking processing power from the computer.
"Ethical statement*
I researched all the suitable interfaces there is, in today's market, and when it comes to superb conversion, 24 or 32 analog ins AND outs, ADAT, SPDIF, and real-time effects, there's not many different models to choose from.
In my opinion it was the Orion32+|Gen3 that ticked all the boxes when it came to my needs and desires.
So it was I that contacted Antelope to hear if they'd be interested in exposure on my channel for this interface, not vice versa.
Support this channel on Patreon:
www.patreon.com/espenkraft
Find my music here:
iTunes Apple music: apple.co/35ZTdfR
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Bandcamp: espenkraft.bandcamp.com/
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Find my patches and sample packs through these links:
thepatchbay.co.uk/product/tal...
sound7.co.uk/products/italo-d...
00:00 Why I needed more gear for mixing
01:26 Hardware Midi sequencing
02:38 Recording to analog tape
03:45 Antelope Orion32+|Gen3 I/O
05:09 SSL SiX - Two of them now!
06:12 The Patchbay setup
07:34 Transferring from tape -through transformer preamps
08:11 The virtual routing matrix (patchbay)
08:45 Inside the DAW - Routing
10:01 Recording in the DAW - From tape
11:01 Patching in outboards
12:29 Let's mix it!
14:59 Real time effects inside the Orion
18:35 Conclusions
We love you for you loving, doing it your way Espen. Don't stop, no, never stop.
Hi Espen, I am also a fan of analog recording and mixing - you have inspired me to buy also a second SSl Six - I love it! Greatings from Austria!
Cheers!
Great setup! Just ordered my first ssl six yesterday! 🙂
Congrats!
@@EspenKraft thx man! 🤗
I can already tell this is going to sound phenomenal, especially after coming out the other end of your impressive mixing techniques! You go, man!
Great to see the older equipment getting used still, but in a more modern usable configuration. Tape does indeed sound good. I played a few cassettes the other day and there is something about the sound you just don't get from digital. I encourage people to dig out there old tapes and try this, you will be surprised. I was instantly transported back. On certain projects, I like to mix down at quite a hot level to an old (but good) Revox B77 then reprint back to digital for finalising. Glad to know your final release will be available in cassette. I will certainly be buying it.
Love what you're doing Espen. Keep it up . Great Stuff!
Thanks man!
Hi Espen, what I like about this video, is that you’re showing a very smart way to combine eighties technology with the latest digital technology. You’re doing that in such was that you get an authentic eighties sound while still making use of many advantages of the use of modern technology! I can’t wait to hear your cassette :-)
Thanks for saying, I find this way to be the ultimate mixture of old and new for me. ;-)
We who follow your channel are happy to see how much you use oldschool gear! I have my machines and I love making videos about them too, and nothing takes the pleasure out of getting the most out of them! Thank you for keeping such a sensational channel as this one, it's a reference for us. Anyone who wants to know my channel, feel free too, as well as Espen, I love old and good equipment.
Cheers!
Can’t wait to hear the new material Espen! Looking forward to it man 🎹🎸🤘
Thanks man! Excited for this release, especially since it's mostly incidental music.
This is gorgeous man!!! Even that stand in guitar is absolutely great!!!
Cheers!
I love that you got that tape sound with actual tape.
Your passion for this subject is so inspiring. You're a rare breed Mr Kraft and I'm glad you're around to keep this thing alive. Thank you for all your efforts.
Many thanks for saying! :D
I remain in awe of your vast knowledge Espen.
Been doing this a long time. ;-)
I remember the MC 500 well...took it on the road....worked like a charm!
Glad to see your using your tape machine. It really breaths life into the sound. I just mixed the tracks in the daw and then bounced the track to tape and then back to daw. It sounded the same as recording straight to tape imo.
Very cool setup! I learned a few things to apply with my patch bays so thank you. Good luck with the new album!
Great. Many thanks!
Antelope Orion + the SSLs is a good setup. I'd have opted for the Big Six (on my list after the OB-X8 and Prophet 10), but there are advantages to having 2 of the Six's as well. That being said, a LOT of 80s albums were recorded digitally, especially synthpop. People assume everything in the 80s was analog tape but that was not always the case. Digital recording was cutting edge and machines like the Sony DTC saw a lot of use, especially in the latter part of the decade. Myself, I started on analog and was relieved with digital recording. Of course, I like a big and clean sounding production.
Sounds so crisp! Now I need a cassette player to hear this beauty in its true form
Bloody hell Espen .... your rough mix sounds way, way better than the full and final mix on the album I'm working on at the moment.... just when I though I had things finally worked out... back to the drawing board :-/
Cheers!
What an amazing organic sound you create with your tools.
This flanged piano sound is also very unique. Wish you much success.
Many thanks!
Hello, mate. You're absolutely right. Maybe we don't need to do things this way but we WANT to do things this way! I'm also an old-school composer and music producer and I've recently bought a Tascam Tm-D8000 digital mixer but to use its analog sound. I know people will hear our music (hopefully) using the dirty Mp3 format but I don't care. I will be happy making music with great analog stuff. Nice job and thank you to share it with us!
Thanks man!
I'm already waiting for your album... Saludos desde Argentina
Cheers!
You know Espen, I think that you buying this gear is in service to this new album of yours. Sometimes, if possible, it can be nice to use different gear or techniques (such as a mostly analog signal path), to get a certain sound for a project.
And I do appreciate you are going all in for this one. I have been trying some different ways of making music myself (such as using the famed Korg M01D and Korg DS-10 apps on a Nintendo 3DS).
It can just be cool to mess about with that sort of thing. Good work and I cannot wait to hear the full album!
Cheers man!
Well if the demo is anything to go by I think the album will sound awesome, can’t wait to buy it
Happy you think so. Cheers :D
Another SIX! You are the Man. Looking forward to the release.
Thanks Dave!
Very interesting video, especially in these days of everything in the box. 💯🙏
I refuse to be locked in a box. ;-)
@@EspenKraft And you are totally right!
Hey Espen. Very interesting, as always. Love your way of doing things. Keep it up! 🎹
Thanks!
funny! and the sounds gets magic during the process. thanks for the video.
Thanks!
Dedication to the workflow.
The workflow IS the juice. ;-)
And I love the way you do it
I'd hate doing it your way but I respect it and most definitely look forward to hear your finished songs
Thanks! Sure, I get that this workflow isn't for everyone and I respect that as well. The most important thing is that we all have the choice to make our music in the way we feel brings out the best in us. Cheers :D
Please keep the drums! They provide a perfect drive to the track.. Also I wouldn't be too hard on yourself using no drums at all - rhythms are an important element of music. Very excited and definitely getting the tape..!
Thanks a lot
I agree with you. Some kicks here and there as well as some minor rhythmic elements, to help the momentum and feel, is OK.
I do get annoyed sometimes by _The League_ members claiming "you can't hear it anyway!" First, I'm a sound engineer, and random John Doe is likely not. Second, and I know you know this Espen, but everyone else look up harmonics. One might not be able to hear the _thing,_ but you can almost certainly hear how that _thing_ interacts with other things. In fact that's how a lot of our effects processors work. Anyway, if what we're hearing here is representative of what the album will sound like, I'm looking forward to doing some maintenance on my cassette deck to listen to it in proper 80s style. The wow and flutter of that 8-track, light as it is, really gives this an authentic vibe. I love how this combination of relatively "clean" IO and processing can still color the sound in interesting ways when it interacts--a bit like a kaleidoscope. Love it. 👍️
Thanks Ted. I find this workflow and setup the best way of mixing old and new and getting that 80s sound, in 2022. ;-)
I'm happy with an X32 with Dante card and using the Audinate virtual soundcard to bring into the audio from the mixer into the PC. Network drivers are usually more robust than USB, less CPU interruptions too. Plus you can expand and route to your hearts content.
I did it myyyyyyyy way! ;)
I just had my Rev7 recapped and it’s up and running again, but the original back light is a blue color. I see yours has an LED display. Very nice.
Ideally I would have liked the original display and colors. I got it this way. It's clear and bright though so it's easy to read.
So sad.. no cassette player here anymore.. whats the fun i listening to all your hard work in digital media 🥺😉
I can't please everyone, but I can please myself. ;-)
Delightfull video, Espen!
Many thanks man!
I love these videos!!! Keep going dont stop
OOOH I LOVE THIS! Dual Wielding SSL Six, absolutely fantastic! I really need to get on the DB25 train :)
DB25s make everything very clean. ;-)
Hi very good video, but I don't understand how do you connect Six 1 and Six 2.You use Ext-1 of Six 1 and connect to Six 2,but at what input of the Six 2 do you connect it?.Thanks
The master output of SiX 2 goes into EXT1 of SiX 1. Everything is kept at unity gain.
Fantastic,some day i hope to have a similar albeit much simpler cut down version for myself,i can dream for the time being 🙂
Cheers!
For the record, I love your drum programming, but if you say no drums I'm still in. I admire the idea of the challenge.
I know I said it, and I'll stand by it in many of the "songs", but I've come to the conclusion that on some tracks, it's the right decision to add SOME drums. All for the best end result. ;-)
How do you plan to use the G Bus compressors on the two SIXs? Will you compress the first SIX and then compress again with G Bus on the second SIX? Also, any experimentation with the talkback input and compressor as an effect?
On the main SSL, the one feeding out the master stereo, I don't plan to use the G compressor at all. I'm going to use another bus compressor on the master inserts. The inbuilt don't have a sidechain nor the flexibility I need.
On the "sub SiX" I might use the G if it's only doing drums, if not I will not use it on that either.
I don't use the talkback input and compressor at all.
Some nice sounds
Better jumper.
I love doing this in this way as well😀
So rad seeing someone else who is super knowledgable, arrive at a similar conclusion. I also use an analog mixer (Toft ATB), Antelope converters (Zen Tour for now), Cubase (just switched to 12) and analog outboard kit, to make a hybrid set-up. ITB can get really sterile and uninspiring. Your imposed "limitations" are what its all about. Good work Mr Kraft!...or "good Kraft-work"? (sorry...easy dumb joke).
Cheers!
I'm happy for you.
Thanks!
Nice track ! How do you find the sonic quality of the Orion ? I've heard they're a bit brittle sounding , ? How would you describe it ?
Ultimately it's a tradeoff for me between sound quality, the analog ins and outs and connectivity. The Orion32 was the best on the market. I think it sounds fabulous and the converters are on par with stuff costing the double of this.
I also think it matters what kind of music you're recording. If I was to record a grand piano in a concert I might go for a different setup.
Warm sound man! ;) 10:20
The BURL b2 ADC would be awesome for your setup as well. The Antelope is great though. Looking forward to your Album, mate 🤗🥰 and by the way, the FOSTEX is damn sexy 🔥😂
Thanks Thomas. Yes, there are lots of options for converting, but I wanted a "one solution box" that had everything I wanted in one go. Great converters, lots of analog ins and outs, as well as ADAT and more. The Orion32 don't have much competition as such. ;-) Cheers!
@@EspenKraft the Orion is definitely a great choice, Espen. No doubt about it. I was just thinking about the BURL because of your FOSTEX machine. Happy Easter 🐣🐇🐰
Definitely a very musical and good sounding ADC, but as I'm taking the tape output to various gear on it's way in, to dirty it up even more, so to speak, such a costly ADC would be totally wasted imo. Happy Easter to you too! :D
Nice Track
I like the D-Sub connection, too! They're sturdy and let you quickly connect 8 channels all at once.
However, it's a love and hate situation for me. I'd like to stress that I only like the ones with the standard TASCAM pinout. It suddenly becomes a nightmare if you have equipment with irregular pinout. There's no way to fix it unless you re-solder the wires...
And as you know, the digital D-Sub connection are a complete chaos. There are pinout variations such as Tascam AES, Yamaha AES, Otari, Euphonix, Tascam TDIF-1, Yamaha MEL2 (DMP7 mode), Yamaha MEL2 (DRU8 mode), Roland RBUS just to name a few. Some equipment are input only or output only (i.e. A/D D/A converters), so you have to "split" a D-Sub cable into two. Whoa. Worst of all, these cables all look the same.
Always do the homework before spending a lot of money on cables yes. ;-)
Love it! Thanks for this. How crucial to your sound would you say is that step of going through the Golden Age Pre-73 preamps and back? Also, how would you describe the character that you get added to the sound by doing this? Is it a kind of saturation? Is it that Neve "smoothness"? Thanks very much. Excited to see my old MC-500 bought new in 1986 pulling its weight!
It's not crucial, and I don't use them on everything. I use them when I want that saturated transformer "growl" in subtle or not so subtle ways. I wouldn't use them on say, some DX bells.
But here, since many sounds are going in and out of tape I will use them quite a lot to augment that analog flavor so to speak. For this album that's being made to sound like a soundtrack to a early 80s B-movie, it will be exactly the right thing. ;-) Cheers
@@EspenKraft Thanks. That makes sense. Looking forward to the final result (and maybe more about the process)!
Nice Setup! Get the extended warranty on the orion. We have had 2 or 3 break over 7 years and they take forever to have repaired.
Cheers!
That's a dodgy-looking user-interface on that mixer. It kind of looks like someone just threw a bunch of knobs at it and left them where they landed. It's visually overwhelming.
Messy mixer aside, I really like the sounds and songs running through it. Can't wait for the new album to be finished!
You mean the SSL SiX mixers? I find them utterly fantastic both is sound and layout, but I've used them for quite a while now. Cheers :D
@@EspenKraft I agree, they sound great. It's the knob placement that messes with my OCD...ha ha ha.
How do you clean and protect all of that equipment from dust? All the sliders and knobs with their electrical connections underneath are very susceptible to dust over time. How do you clean/repair the potentiometers if they get affected by dust?
I have a video about dust protection and how I clean my studio and gear. It's an ongoing battle. I have an education in electronics so opening stuff up, if needed, is easy to me.
@@EspenKraft Very nice. I will look for that video. I recently had to take apart a crackling 1990s Mackie mixer and clean every fader and potentiometer. I used DeoxIT F5 followed by their F100L lubricant. Maybe or maybe not the correct things. Everything works noiselessly now, but moves very quickly without any of that creamy feeling resistance it once had.
If you don't mind, a question for Espen, or anybody else who could answer this. At 12:30 in the video, there are some modules in what I presume is Eurorack format. Now modular doesn't interest me, but 19 inch outboard gear does. These modules in the video, do they do the same thing, but in a different format?
These are outboards in the 500 series format. Invented by API. Nothing to do with Eurorack.
@@EspenKraft Thanks!
Great job!
Cheers!
And it will sound better - can you do more segments on this !!!
I will publish more videos from the mixing of the album later on.
This project might not need it, but it would be interesting to learn how you might write a MTC/SMPTE click track to a spare tape track.
Watch my video where I show how that works. ;-)
After mixing, will you make the mastering (or the various masterings) yourself?
Absolutely, I'd never let anyone near what I do, in any creative way. That includes mastering. I always do my own mastering.
Thanks, Espen. That was very interesting. I have been seeking for a way to keep the old conventional workflow: use hardware synths and hardware outboard equipment, record on a multitrack (sometimes reel to reel), mix on a hardware mixer desk, but still able to benefit from the advantages of the DAW.
Your setup seems very close to the ultimate solution. I hope I'm seeing it right: you are basically treating the DAW like a standalone 24 track multitrack, and the abundant I/O of the Orion allows you to do so.
Yes, that's the way I use the DAW, except for running some choice plugins as well, like an old fashion tape recorder pumping the tracks out in the analog domain for a tactile approach to mixing, which also make me use my ears more than my eyes. ,-)
Your electricity bill must be insane!
It's not too bad. I don't turn on all I have at once. I only use what I need to at any given time. Usually that means 4-5 units at the most.
This reminds me of some issues that I ran into when trying to use a Lexicon MX300 inside my DAW. It comes with some sort of "virtual GUI" VST plug-in...which - in theory - would allow you to connect the hardware unit to the computer via S/PDIF Digital In/Out so that you can use it as an "outboard plug-in". Sounds like a great idea, doesn't it? But even the more expensive computer mainboards only have an S/PDIF Out connector coming with their internal soundcard. And the audio-interface of my choosing doesn't even have any digital audio connectors at all. I cannot even remember any interface in my budget price range with additional digital in/out connectors. Beside of that the MX300 S/PDIF Digital Input only accepts 44,1 or 48 Khz....while I'm always recording with at least 24 bits/96 Khz (or even higher) for lower latency. So I decided to "let it slide" (despite wasting a lot of potential) and still have the MX300 connected the good old fashioned way (analog...via Aux Send/Aux Returns of my mixing desk). Analog is NOT dead! 😉 My question is: How many ms of audio signal delay does your complex setup cause? And how do you deal with all the latency happening in your setup? 🤔
I remember that MX300 and that connection.
I'm not sure how many ms I have in latency as that's really not important to me as I use this rig for mixing only. If I record something, it's just dumping tracks like you see in the video, not in real time.
I've got a PX 2k as well as a couple of PX 3k patch bays. I still struggle to wrap my head around following my own wiring of the bloody things. I've still ended up with a spaghetti junction of cables and I was under the impression patch bays were supposed to make things easier. lol
They do indeed makes things easier if you've made a solid plan beforehand. Out at the top, ins at the bottom etc. And normalled everything that should be. If you don't follow these rules it can sure be a mess. ;-)
Hoping to be able to purchase a cassette version on your album when it is complete.
I will take pre-orders as soon as I've everything in place. ;-)
Listening to the short demo of your song, I have to say, Espen is the 80s. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Thanks man!
Are you going to release this album digitally? I think a cassette release, whilst having a nostalgic sonic character, will not really convey what was laid down, even on the open reel tape. I actually have a half decent turntable (one I used to own as a student back in '88) which I use to digitise old analogue only vinyl, or the rare vinyl releases which are, for whatever reason, superior to the later CD release (due to more care in mastering; higher quality master tape availability, etc). If your going to release analogue only, could you also release on vinyl? 19:14 Typed the above before reaching this timepoint;👍
I've talked about this in greater length in previous videos. Digital and cassette only. Cassette is my number one desire for a physical release. It holds a much greater nostalgic value for me than vinyl. A vinyl release is also much more expensive for me to do, as a one-man-band operation. Unless I win the lottery a vinyl release from me will never see the day.
@@EspenKraft That's fine; I have no desire to re-own a cassette deck. Look forward to the album release.
Sure, I understand. Hopefully you can enjoy the digital release as well. The cassette release will be more of a collectors item. ;-)
How do you install fx in Orion system ?
Check the Antelope website for that.
Sounds Great.I think because your not doing all the work in the DAW it will Sound much more Appealing and Unique.Recording it all in the DAW can make the end results too Generic, Sonically.
Thanks! I have used this workflow for many years now, only difference is I've expanded the number of mixer channels.
This is a very interesting video with nice production values. Substantively, however, the setup is tremendously and unnecessarily complicated. I know it works for you but it is not a useful model for anyone else to use. But it is interesting.
People have been using such a setup for decades. Just replace the DAW with a 24/32 track tape machine and the smaller mixers here with a big console and you're there. ;-)
Sure, you could do all that in the DAW, but if I wanted to watch someone do boring stuff on a computer, I'd watch David Guetta. Don't get me wrong, he's great musician, but entertaining to watch? Not without Kelly Rowland.
The way to connect all my gear to my computer is still not resolved. There are interfaces that I might just about afford, there are those outside of my budget range, and then there's the likes of Antelope Audio. Good for you, though. You work hard enough for it.
Cheers!
I thought DSUB to balanced jacks were too expensive. They are really surprisingly expensive. So I decided to make my own. BAD IDEA, soldering DSUB connectors is a total pain in the ass. And a total of 144 soldering points (24 in, 24 out, all times 3) was NOT fun to strip and solder. And of course, 144 cables to strip and solder on the other 1/4" jack side as well, although that was much easier.
They're not cheap, but like you obviously experienced, they're a dog to make DIY. I simply can't solder like that anymore. For various reasons.
@@EspenKraft Probably the best would have been to buy long DSUB to DSUB cables, which aren't THAT expensive, cut them in half and put jacks on them. :-D But, hindsight...
invest in the tools and crimp the DB25 side? would certainly save time vs soldering, but quality tools are not inexpensive.
@@poofygoof Can you crimp shielded cables?
@@RegebroRepairs yes. the shield is common for the entire bundle, and on shielded shells the braiding or foil is mechanically clamped to the shell where the individual conductors exit the strain relief. Cheaper termination may not make contact with the entire shield foil or braid or only connect a drain wire from the wire shield to the shell.
individual balanced pairs are still twisted together for high CMRR.
Are you happy now not needing more ? Or is there more to come ?
Still some more gear incoming to fill out the gaps.
Do you still use SSL SiX? :)
I do.
Hi👋