Therapist explains the Psychology of Joker
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
- Joker played by Joaquin Phoenix is a complex character to understand. In this analysis, I draw on my therapy background to analyze his psychology. Who is Arthur Fleck? A therapist explains. Having discussed the psychology of the joker in Heath Ledgers portrayal, it made sense also to talk about the 2019 film.
My Little Thought Tree is my channel for drawing out the deeper meaning and emotion in film, TV, and the world at large through relaxed, analytical video essays. I am a professional counsellor and often draw on my psychology and therapy background to better understand characters, themes, and emotion in fiction. I upload every Saturday and occasionally on Tuesdays, if I'm feeling productive.
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"The worst thing about having a mental illness is that people expect you to act like you don't."
For that sentence alone this movie is one of the greatest works of art i've ever seen..
He isn't making excuses, he just doesn't care anymore. He has no ties to the world. Every attempt to fit in was sabotaged.
❗️❗️❗️
Hey, old comment. Since I made this comment the majority of my neighbors went from electing a man who fought to make sure that gay people died alone at the height of the AIDS epidemic to electing a woman who called trans kids "a spoonful of poop in a batch of cookies" (cis kids being the cookies), and has taken all access to medical care I needed after being bribed by industry, much like the plot of Joker actually.
It seems like you were trying to suggest that my opinion is alarming. How exactly do you anticipate people reacting to you taking everything from them?
@@BlueButtonFlyhey, even older comment. From my understanding this initial response you received usually means the person agrees with you or thinks that what you said is important
Absolutely loved this film. I never understood how it was viewed as some sort of justification for school shooters or right wing politics or other weird stuff like that. I really loved how it portrayed class struggle and how Arthur inadvertently becomes a symbol of the uprising by accident and rolls with it, partly because it benefits his ego, and partly because he doesn't understand what's actually going on outside of his own perspective. A perspective that never gets fixed due to failing systems not giving him the help he needs. It portrays this feedback loop of neglect really well in my opinion.
It was never any of that political bullshit. If anything, it was left wing political messaging like "eat the rich" or whatever, but the powers that had already decided that they needed to politicize Joker had made up their minds as to why it was #problematic and that was that.
@@KnuckleHunkybuck Uhm... the movie is definitely very political. That's partly why I really like it. I just don't agree its leanings are right wing as it's intentionally calling attention to class struggle and austerity politics.
@@buriedstpatrick2294 To be perfectly clear, I agree. It is political, but it was never _that_ political bullshit, meaning it wasn't a bunch of MAGA propaganda or whatever, but CNN decided that it was, so it was. By the time the movie actually came out, the facts didn't matter as much as the story that had been woven around them, as is usually the case.
@@KnuckleHunkybuck Oh gotcha. I don't watch American news media so I'm not completely familiar with the context there other than some online discourse.
So true. He never sets out to be a political figure mainly because he can't see past his own suffering. He displays a certain type of narcissism, an almost childlike type, where he does what he does for validation and views himself as a victim. And don't get me wrong, in a lot of ways he IS a victim, but that doesn't justify the things he does by any stretch.
I'm not gonna lie I read the dance in the bathroom as a calming act. When I'm alone if my anxiety gets too intense I start into the most serene act I can think of, slow dance-like movements very similar to those in the bathroom dance scene. I think the feeling of power is just one aspect of that moment.
It was at that moment he lost most of him self and became more the joker ! BTW that Dance on the bathroom was unscripted ! Jaquelin just improv that ! he was purpose to walk in wash his facepaint of leave the gun there and walk out but he made the dance insted hinting that Artur is leaving him and the joker persona is setting him free ! Even the scene where he walk of after telling who gave him the gun ! he walk back and says ! ohh i forgot to check out slamming the checkout machine was totaly unscripted ! The actor is by far my favorit of all time ! He went and lost a ton of weight since one on set said "would it be nice if joker was kinda skinny?" he said yep and took on the challenge ! he lived on a apples and smokes till he lost all that weight !
I really love the point of him dancing after killing the 3 guys in the subway being an expression of him feeling empowered, as opposed to disgusted, because that dancing is always an expression of him regaining an emotional sense of control (also done later right before him going on stage before Murray, when his jokes at his expense make him feel uneasy). An often unstated part of killing another human being, apart from the shock and horror during the first time one does so, is in that exact sense of giving someone power/control over another life through death that nothing else can. Alongside the negative feelings, that part has been stated to feel incredibly intoxicating and is likely a huge component of what makes serial killers not stop with just their first. But unlike with serial killers, who usually kill primarily for the sake of aggrandizing their own ego with that power, with Arthur Fleck this sense of power through killing is what gives him a quick way to control and use his mental illness, rather than let it use him.
In this way his world can become something more than just laughing helplessly out of control, and getting beaten up (as usual) in the subway...it can also lead to him regaining control through that killing and through distancing himself from it, as he would later say in this video: "I used to think that my life was a tragedy. Now I realize that it was a comedy." While this does give him more control over himself than he had ever known before in his life in a much quicker way than any amount of therapy probably would, it's also what leads to him completely distancing himself from both, his own pain as well as consequently all human empathy he could feel towards others. It's probably why I find it a scarily believable way for how a 'supervillian' like the Joker could come about - someone who felt that the only way he could continue existing in this world is to, internally, pervert personal tragedy into comedy and then share that madness with the rest of the world, which is what you see later in the comics.
Well said ☺️
I have tourettes and dance uncontrollably sometimes, after traumatic events, like a couple of hours after the dentist.
An intuitive part of myself interprets the dancing as some sort of self-acceptance. I cant explain it.
The dance was unscripted ! he was surpose to wash his face paint of throw the gun in the trash and walk away! It was the actors interpretation of losing was little was left of Arthur and becoming more the personification of the joker he felt released of that pain ! That scene was totaly unscripted ! Many more scenes are unscripted! The smashing of the checkout machine was to ! Jaquelin takes this role to the extremes ! one on set said would it be nice if the joker was skinny? he said yep and took on the challenge to lose all the weight with a apple a day and tons of smokes ! The actor is known to live and breathe his roles to the fullest ! thats why he is my favorit actor of all times ! you dont see Jaquelin you see the role he plays thats what so damn good about him !
This is also why you see him stop on his medication ! he feels at home in the joker persona ! he was told his laugh was a condition ! you hear him say " you told me my laugh was a condition there was something wrong with me! Well there isn't ! to his mother when he is about to kill her ! his whole upbringing was a lie ! his "mother" has lied to him because she is the one thats sick and he was adopted ! his mother was found guilty of mistreating him ! He shows it early on that he got the taste of freedom by accepting the joker persona in that dance ! he tasted what it was like to become free and thats nail in the coffin finding out he was adopted just put forth the joker persona even more =)
i would love an origin story of batman that is like joker. A reveal that batman is also delusional and finds comfort in his actions with his code of “i don’t kill” to justify his actions
My takeaway is that Arthur absolutely can be Wayne's illegitimate son.
It's at the very least plausible
This would make one hell of a twist to the story of Batman and the Wayne legacy only cinematically rivaled to that of the Skywalker clan
Very interesting discussion to be had for sure. I’m not really sold on there being a sequel for this film being made as I think the film itself is good as a stand-alone, but perhaps if done right we could see more things with Arthur that could perhaps explain his condition even better than what the first film has shown us. I’m glad you’ve made this video, keep up the great work!
Since when does Hollywood think like that? Do you remember when Hollywood made great stand alone movies? Pepperidge farms remembers.
message from the future: joker 2 has been announced and it’s gonna be a musical (???)
I’d like sequel in form of other villains’ story related to our society’s problems
Well we're getting one whooooo
This was a fun analysis. I'm not sure I can imagine TW constructing an entire adoption proceeding. But I can imagine that he had a relationship with Arthur's mom and then covered it up. That was too painful for her, so she retreated into delusion. A continuing relationship with him in which they share a son.
I can see TW constructing an "adoption", purely because no one will let a single woman of meager means adopt a child. And that's not even counting any background checks into her mental state.
If she's known to be his biological mom, there will always be questions about who's the father. But if TW really was the father and didn't want any kerfuffle, he could easily have forged documents drawn up to show Arthur was adopted by her instead of born to her. Given her mental state, even if she tells the truth, no one will believe her.
Then again, Arthur's an unreliable narrator, so it's hard to know what's true and false anyway. Him believing she's not his "real" mom would make it easier for him to justify murdering her.
@@lunacouer I think there's a simple answer to that, in the movie she has a boyfriend, they both adopted Arthur, he starts abusing Arthur and she (perhaps starting to show signs of being mentally ill) does nothing to stop it, her boyfriend is arrested and goes to prison and she goes to a mental institution.
I don't understand why people love overthink everything, especially if the movie already give the answers, like, my theory may even be flawed, but it makes more sense than the "covered it up" conspiracy theory.
I actually cried during this movie.. which I don't often do. This touched at a very sore spot for me. I once watched a movie/ documentary in psychology of criminals who needed to be on medication going around in circles by the system. They would be broken, go to jail/ prison, get out and have enough medication for only a month and then have to figure it out... and ultimately end up in jail/prison again. It such a heartbreaking circle that some people live in for the rest of their lives. This movie is a strong reminder that our system for mental health is broken. Treatment is for the rich.. and everyone else has to suffer.
I have never judged this film as one glorifying violence or making excuses for it.
Rather, I see it as a demonstration of how monsters make excuses, and how making excuses is a form of self-deception which can take you to a very evil place.
Arthur is the protagonist because people need to see what Arthur does, and learn to not do those things. We're all victims, we've all been lied to, humiliated, belittled, neglected, rejected. Watch out for self-pity, for excuse-making, for resentment, for retribution disguised as "justice". Those are the urges we all have, and they're poisonous if we give ourselves to them. They're the ingredients which turn us from Jekyll to Hyde.
This film is a tragedy, but it was brilliantly acted, and quite well written.
Yes but the only difference is you understood that.... many people dont or never will ... thats like being angry at someone for not being able to speak your language but they were never taught that language to begin with ..
@@mambak9 Then this film is a mirror.
Less attentive people who aren't reflective wouldn't understand the film, but they are also the ones more likely to fall into the same traps as Arthur.
Those who are reflective and attentive would understand the message, but would also be more alert to such behavoral traps.
Perhaps rather than a mirror, the film detects "those who could become jokers" by being those who judge too quickly and without depth. If someone says the film is just glorifying violence, then they are someone to be concerned about.
your emasculation point was PHENOMENAL. as someone who really connects with this film (i don’t know how to say that in a less worrying way but i promise i’m ok lol) but is a woman, i greatly appreciate that perspective as i’ve only previously gotten to pointing out the devouring mother and emotional suppression “just put on a happy face” bits. this film never ceases to amaze me, honestly. it’s so brilliantly crafted, and gives the viewer a sort-of yard stick for their own morality, what they deem as excusable vs not, etc. LOVED your video (especially as a fellow house rabbit parent!
I really enjoy all your videos and just have to make a note that the director in different articles has stated that he didn’t kill his neighbor. I initially was surprised when you said he had in the video because I assumed he hadn’t and left her alone.
I just wanted to point this part out about the litmus test: “He doesn’t kill her, definitively,” Phillips said. “As the filmmaker and the writer I am saying he doesn’t kill her.”
He further explains that the scene is a “litmus test” for the audience to ask themselves questions about Arthur. “We like the idea that it’s almost like a litmus test for the audience to say, ‘How crazy is he?’ Most people that I’ve spoken to think he didn’t kill her because they understand the idea that he only kills people that did him wrong. She had nothing to do with it. Most people understood that, even as a villain, he was living by a certain code.”
He added, “Of course he didn’t kill this woman down the hall.”
I think that he didn't also might have to do with the difference in how he sees her mothering her child. She is very loving. She acts the way he wished his mum had been with him.
@@Zukhane excellent point!
@@jumokeogunsola9549 Yes, an excellent point, as well as an excellent name! =.]
Actually, you both have fantastic names!
Hope you all enjoy! This was a fun video to make. Not sure if I prefer this one or my Heath Ledger/Dark Knight video...let me know!
ruclips.net/video/nerMoc-51WM/видео.html
is this a re-release? I am positive you had a video on this a week or so ago. Maybe I'm confusing this with "Analyzing Evil" at The Vile Eye channel.
For the record, I enjoyed your video
Heath Ledger's for me..thank you. Happy New year 🎉
"Projecting innocence isn't exactly the same as projecting goodness."
This sentiment is explored in a pretty dark way in the anime Hunter x Hunter through the first protagonist we meet, Gon.
And now I feel like I relate to this movie more than I did before
The story of Arthur is well told, I find it has causality - a person can only be what all these events make out of him - Arthur as I see it can be nobody else but the person he turned out to be in the end - Arthur is not what he made out of himself Arthur is what society made out of him - Society always seems to be surprised when something goes wrong - bad people are not bad they are made bad - and who makes them bad? Maybe society should be prepared to ask itself why are there so many bad people in our society waiting to go off.
That's what makes the "murders" so hilarious, because it's actually suicide. Lol "please don't kill me!" Reply: "haha! I'm not killing you, your commiting suicide, I'm just the killing instrument you chose! Hahaha! But, you don't get to hear the punchline, because you are the punchline, BANG! BANG! Hee hee ha ha hoo"
I really love listening to these kinds of breakdowns covering this movie. It should be pointed out that they confirmed that he did not kill his imagined girlfriend in her apartment, though.
I never thought that the film was glorifying villainy. I always thought that this was a film about the failures of society to take care of its most vulnerable, that the desperation that came out of a failing social structure, the loneliness that came with it, the uncertainty, the lack of social and familial support, the widening wealth inequality where the rich drained everything from everyone and left nothing for us to fend for ourselves. I always saw the film as a testament to the self-destructive western ideas of hyper-individualism, and if anything it criticized the glorification of self-aggrandizement, selfishness and self-centered that are so prevalent in western society, especially in America.
It's not only Arthur Fleck that suffered from this hyper-individualism that alienated him but also many characters like his idol-turned-enemy, and his own father. I always think the film is criticizing the underlying pyschopathification of society by capitalism that ultimately created the conditions that might spawn someone like the Joker. Perhaps someone like Arthur Fleck is violent and that most people even when pushed to the brink are never violent. But there is a lot to be said about the rampant mental illnesses like depression, stress, BPD, bipolar and a whole host of problems in the west and it cannot be solely attributed to better reporting and diagnosis and more people seeking treatment. It will be dishonest intellectually to not suspect that much of these social ills in the west has to be brought upon by the dominant economic and social system. Capitalism atomized society into disconnected individuals and scorn community, common good and prosperity, common understand and empathy. When the individual is left with itself, the only thing that makes him feels safe is power. It's probably why guns play such a critical role in American culture too. It's probably why the US establishment cannot tolerate the rise of another power and why it can only operate on the ideology of full spectrum domination.
I think it is very telling why a lot of westerners first reaction to this film is that it glorified the Joker's villainy, and the aversion to Arthur Flecks frustration and eventual war on the status quo. That aversion I believe is the result of decades of capitalist cultural hegemonic brainwashing and social engineering that even when the obvious themes of the film were staring right in our faces - criticism of social failures brought upon by capitalism and its cultural domination - most westerners' programming is to switch that part off and went straight for the largely irrelevant theme of glorifying violence. Never blame the system, always blame individual. It's not the fault that the billionaires sucked up all the value produced by society, leaving us with barely enough to survive on, it's your fault for not pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. The cult of "personal responsibility".
Westerners really are the most propagandized people in the world.
Please help
The depth of the potenticy in heightening mental ill health and hallucinations, to despondency in how the world can be viewed through one's mind and its experience of the world were astounding. I've lived the streets and experienced the cruelty of the streets and suffer from mental ill health and hallucinations, this were exceptional in capturing exactly that and Joaquin should receive an Oscar for his understanding in how he delivered it in his brilliance x
I think that this movie works very well on a class level. The Wall Street guys are particularly poignant. Because 2 out of 3 of them are almost definitely acts of self defense. Horrible horrible people killed by a horrible horrible person. But because of their status in society, Their deaths got the limelight. If it was the other way round, Arthur’s death would quickly be forgotten.
If everyone is horrible, no one is.
@@Anon1gh3really have to disagree, saying that is so reductive of how people "work", and "think". There will always be degrees by which people order themselves mentally.
@@self_harem2125 It's more of a principle or a law of nature than a de facto reality. It ain't up for debate. Your disbelief is irrelevant.
@@Anon1gh3 no, it's not. Just because you can read and think critically doesn't make you correct. You know that people aren't de facto agents of reality with no actual agency. If you just wanted to make a one off line to feel validated or whatever - just say that. The word horrible isn't a fact of reality, it's completely subjective to each person bc of their place in this "reality". To say my disbelief is irrelevant is fine, but I'm not wrong. You are.
I had gotten obsessed with this movie and watched it over and over. I had a feeling that it was somehow special to me. After a few months I had an awakening and my past trauma that I had been blocking out for 40 years came back to me. Turns out I've had complex PTSD that turned my life into a living hell. This is a powerful movie. I had been damaged to the point that I didn't stand a chance for anything but destruction. I am eternally grateful for everyone who had anything to do with the production of this film.
Only saw it for the first time recently and honestly, came out conflicted about whether it was exploitative and shaming, or kinda deep.
Appreciate your vid, I really enjoy your perspective.
It legitimately hurts to hear you echo Mmy own ideas about Arthur's psyche. I cannot even begin to explain how much I resonated with this character. I literally avoided the movie, because the claims that it might rouse "incels" to violence wasn't entirely false; I used to be a crazy "incel" as a teenager, and this movie would've fucked Mmy head right up!
That's another story though, but the Erotomania(delusions about being in a relationship) and the: "devouring mother" are things I've had to overcome. They were unbelievably hard to get through, but through perseverance and self-awareness, I have claimed Mmy personhood.
Glad to hear you're doing better.
They are incredibly hard to overcome, I can only agree. Anyone who can grow through the struggle deserves to feel proud of themselves 😊
oo i just finally got around to watching this movie yesterday, what a nice coincidence
Great video. I think the film is a commentay about what happens when you cut funding for a psyiatric funding for the mentally ill. I think most of your analysis is very spot on.
i remember when this came out there was a lot of "be your best you" kind of talk trending and I remember when arthur fleck did his dance and everything that that was the pinacle of his self actualization / true self / best self journey. so proud that he cane out of his shell, overcame those obstacles and was just out there being himself ... but also, let's get him in jail forever now
One of my favorites videos you have made, thanks for the awesome content.
Lot of good points, really well said. I think the child-like elements you mention are one of the biggest reasons why this Joker is a more sympathetic character. He's still a thrill-seeking, violent narcissist obsessed with fame and power, but he seems way less composed than most other Jokers. Most of the time the Joker seems to have a carefully crafted flamboyant persona which he uses to act out his violent, narcissistic impulses, but even when Arthur is on Murray's show it seems like he could break down and cry at any second. Of course, the trauma of his upbringing is another way he seems more sympathetic, since most versions of the Joker are seen in a way less vulnerable state, and any tragic backstories they claim to have are treated as possible lies.
This is one of my favorite movies of recent years
I need to give it another watch thank you for doing such a great video on it. Analyzing the therapist scenes would be interesting.
Yess I've been waiting for something like this from you!
Love these can’t wait for part two
Truly great video, keep it up man 🙏🙏
Super interesting video 😄 Good job, guy!
11:49 ... says a lot about society.
I loved this film and I loved your breakdown and commentary. Thank you!
I'm glad I found this channel, great content.
This is such a good analysis, great video!
Great video, lots of interesting theory. I feel the paranoid Schizoid (all good/all bad) nature of his perspective is very prominent in his viewpoint and would lend to his severe mental health issues, I don’t like to label people.
Ps. If your looking for ideas can you do Encanto, great film around family dynamics and how external pressures can force people into playing out certain roles ect.
Your videos are so good!
Brilliant and both genius video. Earned a subscriber hopefully be seeing more content like this keep it up
I didn't love the movie, but your analysis was really good!
Mostly commenting for the algorithm. While I'm here - I watched Alias Grace on Netflix yesterday. It's a limited 6-part series. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the sessions the therapist has with her to determine if she's faking amnesia and if she should be released (if you ever have time to watch it). It's soooo good. I enjoyed every minute of it.
I enjoyed watching this video. The Joker / Batman aren't really storylines I take much interest in, but you cover them so well and make sense out of them in a way they never have for me before. Thanks! :)
I related so much to this film that I actually bought it in DVD form. All of my favorite movies I buy on DVD. From the lonliness, to going to comedy shows alone to the frustrations of life and the limerence with love interest, constant rejections with even trying to fit in and then having all that illusion that kept me going destroyed. It drove me into the mental hospital multiple times throughout my life, and I even attempted to end myself multiple times, too. I was on medication and went to therapist with the VA. I finally gotten to a point in my 30s that I'm tired of letting this world have so much control over how I feel about myself and try to destroy myself because the world makes me feel so unlovable. I'd rather just be alone and die in peace by myself instead of trying to gain the praise of society to make my life worth living.
I use a wheelchair to get around. There's a joke in the movie, that goes "girls are like parking spaces. You take whatever one works, if you get a handicapped spot, you just hope no-one sees." In a movie about learning to embrace the most marginalised of people (the mentally ill) a joke is made at the expense of the second most marginalised of people (the disabled). The irony... my question is, was this deliberate on the part of the film-makers? On one hand, I did a bit of digging and the person who delivers the line is a stand up comic who actually uses that joke in his set on stage, indicating that the director just told him to use his own material and didn't see an issue with the joke. On the other hand, the only person Arthur shows mercy to is Gary, who is a dwarf. Not because he is disabled and unable to defend himself, but because he was nice to Arthur. Characters make "short" jokes towards Gary, and he reacts with a pained face showing he doesn't enjoy them- meanwhile Arthur laughs along with the jokes. I wonder if the use of the "handicapped" joke, much like the use of Gary as a character, shows that Arthur doesn't notice cruelty when it's levied towards others, only when it's against himself? Anyone else have an opinion about this?
He laughs at things he DOESN'T find funny. That's the whole point, he covers his pain with laughter. The codependent relationship he has with his mother reenforces this when she says "you've always had a nice smile, you were put on this earth to bring people laughter". He feels obligated to find the humor in life, but his life is terrible, there is nothing funny about it. That's why he's always laughing.
@@Claremore-Man I think Arthur does just chuckle along with the other guys to fit in, as he was conditioned to do, certainly. But what I'm wondering is- is the irony deliberate on the part of the writers? Did they try to write him as being oblivious to how he's taking part in the mockery of someone else, as part of his character? Or could it be that the writers THEMSELVES are oblivious to how that joke about women in wheelchairs would be really hurtful and offensive? A lot of people DO think that way. Having a romantic interest in a physically disabled person, especially a disabled woman, is considered really disgusting by some people. If the person has developmental delays then consent might be a question, but the joke was about physically disabled women. As a disabled woman it doesn't feel very nice. I get that not everyone will be attracted to me, that's fine, but to be laughed about and considered disgusting and embarrassing, it's not a good feeling.
Thank you, these are interesting thoughts.
I’m pretty sure he is Thomas Wayne’s son. I think the picture his mom has has his initials with a heart maybe, something like that. Been a while could be wrong
What I love so much about this film is that it took the story of the real-world inspiration for the Joker and ran with it. For those who don't know, the Joker was inspired by Gwynplaine, the main character in Victor Hugo's novel "The Man Who Laughs". Like "Joker", "The Man Who Laughs" follows a poor clown who's just trying to care for his loved ones when it's revealed he has a connection to the aristocracy, but the differences in how the two characters react to that same situation is absolutely fascinating.
Unlike Arthur's connection, which may or may not be true, Gwynplaine's very much is: He's the son of a rebellious lord and, by orders of James II, was disfigure with a permanent grin as a punishment to his father. Once all this is revealed and Gwynplaine is whisked away to be reinstated to his father's titles, he at first tries to plead with the aristocrats, telling them about all the suffering he's grown up with and witnessed because he believes they genuinely don't know about it. And even after he realizes they do know and just don't give a shit, Gwynplaine is still able to pity them, saying the psychological stunting they grew up with in their palaces might be a worse fate than his physical disfigurement.
In contrast, Arthur reacts . . . well, if you're watching this video, I'm sure you've seen the movie. :)
Joker is one of the best movies I have ever seen. i will never watch it again.
This is great!
When i watched this movie in the theater, i think it actually made one of the guest have some sort of episode during one of the more intense scenes. She was screaming and almost passed out and she had to be carried away by ambulance personnel, and they had to stop the movie.
23:30, when he gets in the fridge, it's more likely the cold and quiet that he's seeking. When I'm feeling at my lowest, I'll seek out the cold because the cold helps stop racing thoughts. I once sat outside in a tshirt and shorts when it was in the single digits Fahrenheit for an entire lunch break at work as I waited for the racing thoughts to end.
I never really got the stigma about living with ones parents as adults, especially when one is a caregiver. As long as one is contributing there should be no problem with it. I had a friend who inherited his fathers home at the age of 19. A year or so later, his mother lost her job and needed a place to live so she moved into the house with her son.
My friend was very down one day after breaking up with his girlfriend. Why would any woman want to be with him, he lived with his mother for goodness sake? But I told him, you don't live with your mother, she lives with you. You provided her a place to live when she was in need. You're not dependent on anyone.
18:27 Tbh, it's really hard for me not to be that sort of mother.
Because of my appearance, everyone was afraid of me, men lusted after me, and women were jealous of me. I never had many friends, and by the time I'd had my son, I didn't really have any and I was a single mother. So, letting him leave to do his own thing was- is- hard for me. It's like, "Well, what now?"
this is awesome- i wonder how it would have turned out if you were his case worker
Great video.
he also switches the hand he writes with throughout the movie.
that should be noticed.
I enjoyed this :)
i never related so much to a character than him and i’ve been saying that since years. Being the Scapegoat and being constantly betrayed kills you over time inside and all that’s left is contempt and anger. And then you snap.
Cracker was an AMAZING series-Please, do discuss that show if you can. Robbie Coltrane was terrific.
One of my favourite shows!
Great video!!! Wow
This can happen to anyone when you see a person walking down the street that looks down on their luck just say hello ask how you're feeling and when it's all said and done tell them have a good day because a lot of that just talking to another individual could save them from themselves could make them feel better yeah sure I've been alone all my life been treated like an outcast but the same time I see it as me not being like him that makes me more powerful in a way but again you see a person that's down on his luck that seems that depressed and miserable again say hello how are you how's your day going and when all said and done tell them have a good day you may actually put a real genuine smile on their face
the fridge is both a cocoon and a coffin
I'd love it if you did an analysis of Cracker, I loved those dramas.
4:52 "Arthur's in fear if this guy gets away he'll tell the police." Could it be "He's a threat, if I don't eliminate him he'll attack me again"? However, the way you went about rationalizing it like a "normal" human rather than as an animal is just more proof why therapy will never help me. Mind you I'm talking about animal as in the physical being. For some reason every psychologist I've met can never wrap their head about this.
For real! After murdering someone you'd probably release tons of adrenaline. No way would a person be able to rationalize and problem solve, at least without extensive military training, which is all about learning to control our animalistic nature, as to not die in war due to fight or flight. Maybe if therapists stopped sugar coating (AKA lying) we'd succeed.
im not sure if this is ever gonna happen (i mean probably) but it would be very interesting for this Joker to have a Batman to interact with, they left it open for that with Bruce's parents getting killed. I just think this Joker's philosophy is really interesting and I think you would get a much more morally ambiguous batman in this world, its also interesting as they would need a fairly young batman and or an old joker, usually they're roughly the same or at least fairly similar in age and i think it could be really interesting to see a batman who's in like his 20s starting to be batman
Huh? That's been done over and over again. What would actually be interesting is if the Joker inhabited a world without Batman. I got the impression (pretty sure it wasn't my fault) that this was what Joker was going to be, and of course it wasn't.
We live in a society.
Someone was bound to comment this at some point 😂
His stance inbetween the audience is not childish, it is child-like. Childish carries the weight of judgement of his actions, while child-like means he looks like a kid, without judgement. You of all people should know the difference.
It's not uncommon for me to mess up semantically, especially when my videos are only semi scripted
Would be interested to see you cover the film "The Believer"
Very interesting Analysis, I did wonder why this should be a batman universe film instead of a film not related IO think it would work and e strong without tagging onto a franchise it feels a bit like bandwagoning. It is possible that some or all of the film occurs in Arthurs head its interesting how the colour pallets shift in the film. It is interesting there are parallels and similarities at times to American Psycho, it would be interesting to see a how these compare in a side by side analysis. there is also an element of Mrvyn Peakes Gormanghast about the film the descent into madness and killing the belief in ascending to status leading to destruction (interestingly Peake was said to have written Gormanghast as a representation of his descent into madness as each of the characters are faculties being killed off i wonder if this is true here also)
He wasn’t going to kill Murray until he made fun of him on set when he was on stage. He fully planned to take his own life
The subway scene and scenario was inspired by Bernie Goetz, the “Subway Vigilante”. That actually happened and there was a movement of people behind him calling him a hero before and after he was found and arrested. The riots in the streets may have been dramatized but it was not far from reality. Which makes it even more fascinating especially when you came to find that after Bernie was arrested that he had a lot of racist points of view which blurred the lines even more since it was a group of black teenagers that he shot and people were forced to question themselves. Those who once supported him turned and some unfortunately doubled down. This movie does a lot of things brilliantly and I think playing with this idea is at the core of it all. Great video.
I think a reviewer said it best “I did not love this film but I do think it’s fantastic”. I think it’s an incredible representation of our society but love it no it’s pretty rough to watch and it’s pretty hard to take and that’s probably the point but it’s something to learn from
Beautiful
I connected to this movie in some ways I saw myself in Arthur
Love this film … to anyone who thinks this movie is like taxi driver- let me explain my thoughts on the two characters- taxi driver opens up with Robert dinero character Travis Bickel using profanity, talking about the world in such a bleak way-hatred for people of all types and his job- he has a horrible life, but it’s all HIS CHOICE.. Joker with Arthur Fleck on the other hand we see as the film opens up he’s dealing with a severe disability but beyond the mental issues he’s seeking help..he did not choose his life -abuse etc- he’s struggling the first act to do the right thing and get help.. I think the first scene of the long staircase which he drags himself up slowly is a metaphor for his hopelessness in his doomed life .. Every one will undermine and take advantage of him.. he only then chooses to be like a snake in the woods, if you walked on a path and stepped on one- Is the snake in the wrong for biting you? That’s why In the finale the dance down the stairs was so important. He was finally was letting go of his past and fully embracing the chaos of life.. we see in the movie the city embraced this view too on their own free will when called “clowns” by Elites and in a way realized we’re all as capable to be crazy as Arthur- the remark from the cop “do you see what you did?” “Yeah isn’t it beautiful?” He’s able to see that madness is just like gravity, all you need is a little push -that confirms his vision of the world -and now he’s content .. he made his point
I'm sorry ... what is the Robert Carlyle show? I must know where I can access it.
Cracker, starring Robbie Coltrane. The Robert Carlyle episode is a two part episode called "To Be Somebody"
Can you talk about Kaitou Joker?
Masterpiece.
I used to call my dad all the time to tell him how i was doing. Some messages were just for his ears. After a while, the person who was really receiving these messages told me to never call here again.
At that point, i knew i was crazy. Other people would ask if i am crazy. Ask if im emotionally disturbed. Asked how i got here. I saw how i was separated from them. They were the normals. I am the disturbed. I dont want revenge. I can use a hug, tho.
The first time i watched Joker, for some weird reason all the dialogue was muted, it was just the music and some snippits of background dialogue. it was fun. The second time i watched it i laughed alot. Joker is a comedy disguised as a drama. Its a comedy for the truly mentally ill.
Im guessing Arthur was always in the hospital, and the entire movie is a dream.
Actually, there's a theory out there (and I'm not precisely quoting it) wherein it is Bruce Wayne is the mental patient in Arkham Asylum. Two-face is the orderly who is nice to Bruce when others are around and is vicious to him when they are alone. Poison Ivy is the nurse who keeps injecting him with medication. The Joker is his shrink. Something like that.
yup pretty much lol Arhur/Joker is an unreliable narrator to this whole movie we can't trust a damn thing about his story xD because in essence its just the delusions of a madman who likes to imagine the "what if" scenario an thats why at the end of the movie he's laughing his ass off cause he pulled your leg and tells the shrink "you wouldn't get it."
I disagree
The Joker doesn't kill Sophie. It's been confirmed.
And here... We... Go...
He didn't kill his imaginary girlfriend because she was always nice to him.
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The Joker, reminds me of
Pink (Bob Geldof) in 1982
movie "The Wall" from the
Pink Floyd. (A Must See!!)
I feel like i am slowly becoming the joker. I have bipolar/borderline and severe social anxiety. I am constantly discriminated against for my health issues. I was actually angry at robert de niro in this movie FOR arthur.
Movie was very relatable 😂 main reason I can’t take meds or smoke weed my delusions that help me cope go away and when you use delusions to solve your problems and they go away and you experience true reality will be crippling panic attacks and intense feelings of fight or flight but I would think bipolar and sociopathic or at least ASPD Arthur was weak Joker is strong once he crossed the line he gained power and confidence his first grandiose delusion was after the shooting but once you see reality it’s crippling you have to either delude yourself or destroy the truth
Also you could delude yourself and destroy the source at the same time if you seen the end of American Psycho
cope
@@cheefqueef6494 cope
has anyone pointed out yet that the microphone on the murray show hangs over arthur like a damocles sword?
I would love to see a timeline where Batman and the Joker realise they are brothers.
The hype and media circus around this movie was so awful, not to mention the irl topics it was rubbing against uncomfortably close... Glad to see a take from someone more compassionately aligned than the majority of take havers. By the way, if you are looking for interesting psychological takes in movies, there's actually some curious stuff happening in Tom Hardy's Venom. As someone with pretty intense ptsd as well as being on the spectrum, it captured a lot of the feelings I have in a way that felt... Less like an outsider description, more like someone who has been there. Later I read up on Tom Hardy's life and realised that dynamic, where he's playing both Eddie and Venom, is speaking from places he's perhaps familiar with or close to, which may be why they felt more like my experiences, especially in things such as having a somewhat fractured personality.*
Venom's outbursts and hyperintelligence really remind me of a time in my life where I described myself as if the ego was one half of my dynamic and the other half was superego and id in the same entity. I've had a toothy voice inside me rumbling about eating heads while I'm just trying to do some shopping in the corner store, felt alienated from my body both as the ill fitting alien inside it and the host watching something I barely understand writhe and rage. In general I think it's a very visceral way to describe intrusive thoughts.
Kind of a big and personal and extremely niche topic, so no idea if it's really applicable to others, but I figured you're interested in niche convolutions of how people think so maybe it's a perspective that adds a little value for you in return for the value your videos have brought me!
*Not DID clinically, just not a typical single self identity/perspective the way one would expect for a Christian/atheist upbringing in the west. Though actually having a psychologist now who is Buddhist has made me feel a lot less worried about it, cultures with reincarnation ideas implicitly have more room for variation in relating to self, so... I tend to describe it as working a little like how the avatar incarnations work in last airbender but as if they were all playing in the same large band or orchestra, trading places on who conducts depending on the situation.
25:25 I'm here to pop your baloon: Zazie Beetz reprises her role in the sequel. I don't think they invited her to return as a corpse.
29:01 It was later shown he stopped laughing as soon as he left the room, i.e. fake laughing.
The Channel "Cinema Therapy" also has a very concise analysis of Arthur, and diagnose him with Bipolar Disorder. This makes sense, with his aggressive mood swings and delusions, and his desire for a male role model.
A great movie plays on different levels
You probably thought that because everyone else and ther mother came to that conclusion and politicized it, changing the meaning of it.
and now we get a musical for the follow up?
You should do a video on the movie "I Am Sam".
im going through walking on egg shells i get screamed shouted at put down dehumanized that now when i get shouted at i burst out laughing and i even said to myself im becoming like the joker only so much i can take
In regards to whether he killed her on not rest assured he didn’t I read a draft of the script and she’s alive and she’s even horrified by what he did to Murray
Two minutes in and I already knew you were somebody who actually got it. You actually got the joke.
I'm so glad to hear you're actually a counselor because there's so many people out there who aren't who do videos about Arthur Fleck specifically
I love rabbits, that whole explanation is adorable
The director came out and said that The Girl Next Door wasn't actually killed, he just walked out. There was going to be a scene of her watching him on the Murray Franklin show but they decided to keep the perspective from Arthur's point of view. If the director / writer comes out and says it, then that's how it is.
To be fair, from personal experience, if you bring out a weapon and don't use it and the cops get involved, and there's three against one, the cops are going to believe the three guys, especially if you're nothing but a clown.
At the moment where Arthur commits his triple homicide, he's already running out of meds, he's been feeling anxious and out-of-place and depressed his whole life and it's only getting worse, and now finally he finds something that gives him control and power. Unfortunately it took the murder of three admittedly pretty hostile individuals for it to happen.
To be fair, it's the early eighties in the movie, stand-up comedy was mostly just sex and objectifying women
Marie's comedy maybe clean but it is hiding the fact that he's actually an awful person. Like Bill Cosby.
He had three options on the subway, continue getting beaten, fire his gun in the air in hopes that they would go away in he wouldn't have to deal with anything anymore, or just shoot them. You always have a choice, but sometimes life doesn't give you any good choices. Trust me, I know.
Oh yeah bro, Joker and Batman are two sides of the exact same coin.
If Gary isn't Gaggy Gagsworth in the next movie I'm going to be upset.
Oh what, you don't find me alluring? Trust me when I say, people love to never stop thinking about me. My power is to cause non-stop Obsession of me in other people.
House prices are one thing, but good luck even afford an apartment when you can't even get a job because everything is closed because you know, that thing that's been going on for a while. I know this movie is before that but you know it does apply to our real life that a lot of people are just going to have to live with their parents for a while.
Bro don't even get me started on my mother
Here's why I don't think he killed the neighbor, they would have showed it, why not? He just killed his disabled bedridden mother, what's the difference? How would it be any worse? We seen him be brutal and they definitely would have showed it or at least blood on his hands.
I think Arthur was laughing at Gary in the beginning because everybody else was doing it and he wanted to fit in
Anyways I was a great video, definitely going in my playlist of good Joker videos
If you ever want to try to psychoanalyze a real-life Joker, Google me.
Being made evil is never a choice