Thanks for watching this so that we don't have to! BTW I posted a recommendation for your channel on my channel's community page two days ago to help you get to 1K. Gotta support fellow Trek youTubers! Take care!
I’m a gay male, from a racial minority background… and I loathe Discovery. It’s preachy, vapid and the characterization of Michael Burnham makes zero sense as a Starfleet officer let alone a captain. Their desperate pandering to original fans, with a TNG storyline had me laughing out loud… it proves why they are ending their show early… because building a new fan-base hasn’t worked, and they want us back! I’m grateful for your channel 🙏🏻 for being a rational and intelligent voice, fearlessly sharing what many of us are thinking. But as happy as I am this travesty is finally over. It makes me sad to ‘hate watch’ Star Trek, my once most-beloved franchise. I find Strange New Worlds just as frustrating to watch. It just doesn’t blend with what came before - and I can’t suspend my disbelief. It has no relation to the five series we all cherished. I wish SecretHideout’s tenure would just end already.
I'm a gay male as well. It honestly boggles my mind that other LGBT people will hold up this show as an example of good queer characters. Aside from the first half of season 1, most of this show is waving a gay or trans character in front of the camera and then punting them aside so Michael can get back on screen.
I’m surprised this series isn’t just Michael solving everything with the rest of the crew just chilling out in sweats. Whenever anyone comes to them with a problem they look up from their phones and say “you have to wait until Michael comes back. Don’t look at us.”
I found season 4 to be the most egregious when it came to MB being the hero of everything. It should have been Book who was able to communicate with species 10-C. He's an empath, and it was his planet that was destroyed. But, somehow, as always, it was Michael Burnham who saved the day. -Mollie
Glad to know the crew is so useless, didn't want anything to do this series because the first episode was so boring and i hated how shiny everything was. I was afraid i might have missed out on something but every ad shoved down my throat is impossible for me to listen to.
Hi, Mollie and the Old Man! 😀 I did not, and will not watch the Abrams Trek movies, because I did not think a prequel series or alternate timeline would do the original series any justice at all. and I have not watched Kurtzman's Star Trek Discovery. I was originally interested in review channels that focused on Disney Star Wars (Ugh), but kept hearing statements about Star Trek as well. I kept hearing about Michael Burnham, so much so, and in such a way that I thought it was the lead actor's name. You are right, Old Man, Michael-Burnham is an "identity" of her own. Old Man, you have been on fire in the last few videos, . 🤣 I am not used to such a "retiring" Mollie.😇😁 I wonder whether A. I. is used as well, Mollie. Do they have it already for copyright/intellectual property claims, and the 25%-difference all in one? Thank you for your review and discussion. My life has gotten more hectic and stressful . Your videos have helped me escape lately.
Amazing that this is back and this is the first that i have heard about it, not that i watch it mind you, as i steer clear of everything ST from 2009 onwards.
I skimmed through the first episode to see what I missed since dropping out back in early season 3. Two things that bugged me most in this episode was that an 800 year old ship seems to still have power. I don't remember hearing any dialogue like in Booby Trap back on TNG where Data mentions activating a power pack to bring a 1000 year old vessel back to life. It also didn't seem that the away team was all that concerned about an ancient ship being functional. Lastly, the whole progenitors leaving behind any salvageable tech. If we just take humans, which have been around for 200-250 thousand years at our current best guess, as a minimum basis for a timeline of events regarding how long ago the tech they are seeking was used, do you think anything that complex would survive? This also assumes that the progenitors wouldn't have destroyed a lot of their tech at the end to make sure their great experiment didn't destroy itself. If humans can think about something like the prime directive so can an alien species.
I'm confused by the whole plot of this season and the Progenitors. I rewatched TNG The Chase. In that episode, the Progenitors state that they seeded the primordial oceans of many worlds with their DNA. Why are they looking for Progenitor's technology? What technology? All the progenitors did was seed their DNA and let millions of years of evolution to take it's course. It's not that they used some Genesis device to instantly create life where there was no life. They seeded the primordial oceans where life was beginning with their DNA. What is the Federation trying to discover? How they seeded their DNA in oceans? And how would any physical technology be still around after millions if not just thousands of years later? I don't think the Discovery writers watched and understand The Chase episode. They are trying to make a Indiana Jones storyline where there is no artifact to be found.
The story structure they are using is something more suited for a fantasy narrative in which the long-lost ancient civilization was somehow more powerful than the current society. Ultimately, this is a McGuffin chase, a trope J.J. Abrams liked to use a lot. It seems he passed his tropisms onto his followers like Alex Kurtzman.
I honestly do not know how you sit through this show. I could not get through the first season, heck I was done after the first episode. I did come back for season two because of Captain Pike, but they wasted the potential they had with his character. I commend you for sticking with reviewing this show. You are braver than me. 😂
If you just treat it as a generic sci fi show, it can be somewhat entertaining. That said, I'd glad it's over. I think even I wouldn't have checked a season 6, lol.
In addition to your excellent review, I enjoyed your bonus Picard season 3 rant. I still have a hard time comprehending how so many old fans sang that season's praises. It was the same awful writing as the first two seasons, with some nostalgia hits sprinkled on top. Also, I think you are right on the money about "Burnham is a progenitor" is where this season is headed.
Hope. That's why a lot of old fans gave it a go - myself included, although with some trepidation. Unlike a fair amount of them, I found it to be too 'member-berry-ish and that last scene with Georgie with him sat in the Captains chair looking at all all of them and then on top of that the new crew of all diverse women + one token white guy just finished it for me. No one seemed to pick up on those things and realise that it was just the same old intersectional feminist stuff which was in Discovery and Picard seasons 1 & 2. I always said that if they balls'd up Picard season 3 up then I wouldn't go back afterwards - and so I'm out.
Yeah, it's what I was expecting. Are the warp engines detached and flotation? They certainly nailed the 'lame' part of Cartman's line from The Panderverse.
One of the things that bothered me most about Discovery, especially seasons 3-5, was the fact that it was ALWAYS a chase to save the galaxy yet again from some unspeakable threat. The seasons predominantly felt like a big action-scifi movie spread over 10-12-ish episodes. It never felt like a collection of stories like old (read GOOD) Star Trek. And I wasn't even pining for them to make it entirely episodic. The Orville proved that you can have a mix of episodic and longer storylines while getting to know the characters and having both epic and personal journeys.
At last. we have the first straight (so far) white male character since Anson Mount left to become the hen pecked captain pike. And what happens. He is court marshaled, demoted and offered the job as Burnhams underling. If he had any pride he would tell her to stick her job offer where the nebula doesnt shine.
But how well does Reynor cook? Does he have his own kitchen (with fireplace) in his quarters? Can he cook up a full 12 course meal? If not, he's pretty useless.
I read a comment or saw this on another review, can't remember, and this person asked why the diary was an actual diary and not a data pad. These episodes sound nuts. I'm glad I noped out of this series before season 1 ended. Great review you 2 as always.
The reason they feel confident rehashing old Star Trek is because they know that most longtime Star Trek fans have already bowed out. And those fans have been proven right time and time again.
I have a feeling they also think by making the new 'stuff' more familiar that they can woo back old fans. They really think we can be tricked that easily. 😒 -Mollie
@@mollieandtheoldman Yeah, they treat ST fans with contempt, thinking all we want is a few 'memberberries to keep us happy while they give us bad stories, unlikeable characters, and a story universe that's a mockery of Roddenberry's optimistic vision.
Do the writers understand that The Progenitors did not have the power to create life? They "seeded" life with common genetic material. As Nitpicking Nerd mentioned on his channel, the Genesis Device was far more powerful than what The Progenitors did. FFS, they included the genesis device in STP season 3 as a memberberry!! So, I'm guessing the writers are completely misinterpreting what The Progenitors actually did and completely forgetting about the Genesis Device.
Michael is a Progenitor, and like Odo, it is in her DNA to travel through time and space, to eventually find out who she is. That would actually make the show make sense. Still silly though.
I watched the first two episodes just to have a reference point for the season. But I will not be watching anymore. These producers really are Star Wars fans that’s pretty clear. Also, it is so tiring how every season creates these bureaucrats or crewmembers whose purpose is just to argue with Michael Burnham, so the audience can see how perfect she is. All she does is argue, and surf on ships at warp. So boring… thanks for watching this so I won’t have to anymore.
There is an issue with the episode the progenitor race didn't seed the galaxy with life, as the galaxy already had plenty of life, they seeded it with humanoid life. I do not see why discovery is making such as big deal out this tech when the federation has the genesis device.
This is another prime example of how everything has tricked us into less is more. We used to get 20+ unique sci fi stories EVERY year. (that's why they are called seasons). Now we get one, maybe good enough to be a two parter, story stretched out to 8-10 hours. every 2 to 4 years. AND now the story is a rehash of a story already told. Look, I get why they used to do things in an episodic way in the past, so that people can jump in at any point and not be lost, and I get that you can have more continuity, character development and growth with the serialized method. But can't we do both now? Can't we have monster of the week, mystery of the week, adventure of the week, AND the continuity since people have now been trained to watch, and have access to, the entire series? We don't have to continue the story from last week, in order for what happened last week to matter and need to be watched to understand why things are as they are. TV needs to evolve. We want to see our favorite characters in a bunch of different scenarios, and we want to see them grow, change, and have relationships. It's really not that hard. The Orville was able to do it.
I would argue that TNG and DS9 had such continuity as well. They referenced events from older episodes all of the time and built on top of it. And they actually respected their world-building (and world-building from TOS). Accurately and without contradictions, I may add.
Yes, Deep Space Nine did that with Nog. He began as a brat chasing girls. He got fed up with his father and joined starfleet. He was more starfleet than Starfleet, making Jake pissed off. He then got injured and overcame his PTSD in "It's Only a Paper Moon".
@@valueofnothing2487 True, but that was a problem for DS9 back then, because people couldn't just watch earlier episodes at the click of a button. But you are right, they can just to make something DS9 like now. I guess Strange New Worlds is trying to do that, but the characters didn't catch me at first viewing. Maybe the next season will get me to re-watch.
Sorry, but the idea that a decades-long starship captain who gets forced into retirement would then take the #2 slot to someone half his age is an idiotic plot point. This is not how militaries or even career paths work. It is a stupid plot move.
I totally agree - this is so extremely stupid on so many levels. I mean, we all know that Michael Burn is a demi-god and can over rule anyone. That has already been established. But how can anyone on that ship have any respect for Reynor and follow his command as 1st officer? He got forced out, and then came crawling back for a demotion! I guess Reynor, as someone who is not Michael Burnham, has no pride and has to be shown up by the chosen one.
"So much action you don't have time to think about how dumb the story is." Isn't that how all nuTrek works? E.g. Wait... so Starfleet retires a captain and Michael gets to reverse their decision? Why does she treat the Enterprise as if it were her own private fiefdom where she gets to do whatever she wants, including making her boyfriend part of the crew?
I know what you are trying to say. Dont forget she is a convicted criminal who was never punished, promoted above her ability and above people higher in the chain of rank than her and ignores superiors and yet takes no responsibility for her actions. Its a real mirror of modern life. (By the way its the Discovery not the Enterprise. Thats being captained by another ball less captain).
You know, throwing this crew into the 32nd century was really a blessing for the writers. It gave them an excuse to allow them to distract the audience with all of this garbage SFX and CGI so that, as you say, the audience would be less likely to pay attention to the quality of the storytelling. Conversely, SFX was really secondary in the original Star Trek series and amplified the need for great storytelling. And, for the most part, that's what we got way back when.
After the Disney board vote fiasco I finally figured out who the phantom audience is… Stakeholders. I.E. everybody. Even the ones who are not interested and are not aware of the franchise. It makes for a handy shield as producers can cherry pick the identity group they want to appeal too. Meanwhile the actual consumers and audience of the franchise are told they are not good enough. End result, the show claims it is everything for everyone… but it’s all part of a delusion on the part of the producers who can’t understand why the stakeholder isn’t working them.
I laughed when Saru transported right beside the Vulcan ambassador without warning and she just turned and said "Hello Saru". That would have made me jump! Your take on Burnham character assumes that the writers think she was in the wrong and needed to learn from experiences; she was always awesome - first officer on the Shenzhou held back by her captain, she was right all along and is frequently proven to be making the right decisions because she's the main protagonist and has to always be right and save the day. As for Tilly teaching at the Academy, I think it's as simple as Kurtzman making a Starfleet Academy spin-off show and taking a fan favorite character from Discovery. Picard S3 was the closest Kurtzman trek got to ST:TNG - acknowledging all it is flaws... and there was a lot. What annoys me is that Terry Matalas is held up as some saviour of Star Trek by making a season that was marginally better than the awful two seasons that came before his (hardly a challenge).
Disco Season 5 has now managed to be the lowest rated season of the entire series so far on Rotten Tomatoes. It now has an average rating of 20% from the viewers. How low can it go?
The problems with Michael Burnham have nothing to do with her race or her sex but actually it is all about her character. They really do not know what to do with her.
Yeah, I don't think they have a tech bible for this show. They probably reject the idea of any sort of a show bible because they want to be new and different.
That was a QUICK season. Because no way in hell am I watching anymore of that. It's an insulting, uninspired story. A fetch quest and race chase. Shame because the effects looked pretty good. It looked so much like Star Trek trying to be Star Wars unabashedly.
39:37: "To this day, I do not understand why people say Season 3 of Picard was any better." Season 3 of Picard was horrific. Picard attempts murder, Beverly commits murder, Worf sanctions torture, Starfleet and the Federation sanction torture, Riker blames somebody else for his own mistake, Troi scorns her patient. TNG's heroes were turned into evil scumbags.
I could only get through about 3 episodes even after the recommendation of all of the channels that we both probably like and watch. I don't understand what they saw that made them say season 3 was so great.
100% agree. And Captain dipshit Shaw?!! A Captain who just stood there watching his chief science officer get murdered and never spoke of her again afterwards. What a guy! And people loved him.
My friend calls Michael Burham "Space Jesus." 😜🤷🏻♀And I have to agree with their description. In TOS TNG, DS9 etc there were _consequences_ for the crew members actions. It seems that anyone can do anything and get away Scott free. I hope that someday that the Kelvin Timeline is de-canonized. And that they bring back the Prime Timeline. I hope that the next series takes place in the 24th Century. I'm tired of the Kirk era Trek series. And no, I won't be watching Star Trek anytime soon. Until they bring back the original format, I'm not watching. So I'm very glad that channels like you two (as well as you both) take time out of your schedules to make videos like these.
I thought Nerdrotic went too far in calling her space Jesus. But then she did fly around in a red angel suit and appearing over places throughout time inspiring civilization to progress. So in effect she really was a Space Jesus.
Thank you so much! I think the best we can hope for is for the other timelines to just be ignored. Also, watch out with the 'Prime' timeline label. Abrams came up with that, and I'm suspicious of anything that man does. I always just tell people I want the original timeline back. -Mollie
I thought there was a 50/50 chance for them to do stupid action, but I never thought they'd STP3 it. Did Burnham admit that she got a second chance because she did something wrong, or was she implying that her imprisonment was wrong? And did they have to have Moll say "breathable air, my ass"? They took us to the 32nd century to do this? And if the last episode was Arsenal of Freedom what's the next episode going to be? And when will we see the Borg?
That's a good question about MB's second chance. She didn't specify what she did. And you make a good point about the language. I noticed a few swears being used in these episodes. Of course, we'll always remember Tilly dropping the f bomb back in season one. -Mollie
Sadly, Prodigy is the most Trek like show of all of Nu Trek. And no, Lower Decks' memberberries does not make it Star Trek. It's just another derivative over the top farcical comedy. Something I would argue is not in the spirit of the core essence of the franchise. Call me a purist, but that's how I feel. Star Trek is not a comedy show. That's why comparisons with the Orville are off target, IMO.
Maybe someone will see this comment and can "answer". The Progenitors seeded all humanoid life in the galaxy, right? Now I know the Progenitors are not the Changelings, despite the Founders leader and the Progenitor from TNG being the same actress, BUT did the Progenitors seeding lead to Changelings too, or did Changelings evolve on their own like the Progenitors presumably did (though I guess it's possible some even older species could have created them), OR did some other ancient race seed the Changeling evolution? Holy run on question, Batman! But I'm not rephrasing because it's basically comprehendible. Right? :)
So the self-proclaimed champions of diversity take on "the chase" which proves that all races go back to the same ancestry. This is going to go reaaaaaally well. 😶🌫 In the recap, when I heard and saw about the ships dumping in the sand, I was struck at just how dumb can you get! And I was super-angry at the war-criminal Burnham getting to hand out second chances! The screenshot of them being attacked by drones looks an awful reminiscent of "Arsenal of Freedom"
Plus, and maybe I’m mistaken here since I didn’t watch the previous seasons too closely. But I thought the galaxy was without warp speed for like 200 years or something. Didn’t Discovery just gift the galaxy warp speed back in season three. So how is it that all the characters have these memories of traveling and fighting at warp speed, and how is it that Moll and Lock have all these warp signature devices… wasn’t warp speed just reintroduced to the galaxy two years ago? Huh…
Yeah, that kelpian wrecked the dilithium somehow and caused 'the burn'. What I think happened is the ChatGPT or whatever Kurtzman and Paradise use, harvested story elements from an episode of Firefly that used the multiple signatures scenario. It's a shame these writers don't have the imagination required to write a story about getting the Federation, Starfleet, and technology in general back up and running. The way they write is more like a soft reboot every season. -Mollie
I was hanging out with my friend makers mark. It was weird watching it. Just finished voyager and started watching andor. Everything seemed to be Burnhams fault. It’s so different than voyager it’s crazy. You mentioned the awkwardness of Tilly and the dude. One of things that stand out in voyager is they will flirt and tease each other. That seems to be something missing from all modern shows. And why is David Cronenberg in it? It’s too crazy to understand. It’s like David Lynch being a regular in the boba fett show. Andor is good so far, the look of the actors and sets and cinematography look like old star wars and 2001.
I enjoyed Andor for a while, but it moved too slowly for me and I, unfortunately, lost interest. It was still a million times better than this though. -Mollie
The ships crashing was dumb...especially rayners ship...it takes time to blast thru the atmosphere...they do it by magic and coming to a dead stop...seriously
To be fair, it's hard to pay attention and keep things straight when you have 22 producers. After 15 producers I'm sure they can't remember they are making Star Trek ... and it shows. 😋
No, 1000 does not mean that they put in ads. From the beginning of the channel, RUclips reserves the right to put in ads and RUclips keeps all the ad money until the channel has 1000 subscribers. When the channel has 1000 subscribers, the channel can apply to RUclips for "monetization", which means the channel might get a small portion of the ad money from RUclips.
Burnham is Jesus, God and the Holy Ghost all rolled into one, the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning of Time and the end of Space... this is what Trek writing has become, lol. Isn't it funny that Marina from Lower Decks is actually EVERYTHING Burnham should be as a character, an egotistical, self centered maniac but one who is actually likable and with real depth. Marina learns, develops and feels, Marina tries to go solo on stuff and fails, then learns humility and only succeeds when she includes her friends and depends on her collegues! Burnham doesn't do this, she just solves every puzzle and saves every day and then the credit rolls, lol. That cartoon is better than the big budget show, hahaha
So if these two episodes are less egregious than past episodes, all I have to say is just wow. Looks like the plan is to quadruple down on everything wrong with this show. My only prediction is when they get to the last episode the reaction will be "Is that it?" as in the ending will be so lame and predictable, cringe won't be strong enough. Listening to you, I think you've already nailed the ending sarcasm not withstanding. I think the likelihood that Burnham will be THE Progenitor who now remembers who she is is closer to 100 percent.
the star craft idea is not to far fetched given that basically everything in discovery was one way or another taken from a video game case and point the spordrive is a direct rip off of a indi game called "tardigrade" from the 2014s
And they COMPLETELY *IGNORED* the ENTIRE DS9 series! and the whole Dominion War! I mean give me a - break. Just rehashing an old stupid story ignoring the most important parts of Star Trek History on the very subject. lame. I'm skipping the season until the final episode just to see how stupid they make it. it'll probably end exactly like the TNG episode did! I'll bet $5 on that.
I didn't think the two episodes where as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Yea I thought it was weird they used the Aliens that created life. I don't agree with it. Neither do I agree with it when TNG used it. I still think Discovery is way better than Lower Decks. I can't stand that show.
I refuse to watch this. Love your shows, I thought this was before Kirk and spock? How do they know about picard? Are they still in the future? Thank god it's over, they have tanked an entire network with this garbage
@@mollieandtheoldman what has me wondering is why you hang labels on a seasoned actor who has never had a bad review? I saw him and my first thoughts, finally someone closer to normal, rather than the collection of oddballs they have put together over the past several years. I suppose they figured they hit rock bottom with Stacy Abrams. They certainly couldn't do any worse by bringing in someone in that conforms more to the characters of Star Trek past. Someone who is a little bit of a swashbuckler, more in the image of William Shatner or Avery Brooks. Next thing you know, they will introduce a hetrosexual white couple with normal kids.
It was a from a sarcastic joke I made in our review about the way Discovery usually operates. My biggest fear is that he was brought in so Michael Burnham could spend the rest of the season 'correcting' him. -Mollie
@@mollieandtheoldman I think your fear is warranted. Personally, I don't think Kurtzman and the writers can help themselves by feeding this character to the misandry machine or, perhaps, in the end having the white male betray everyone (not unlike Judas) with Burnham literally becoming space Jesus and becoming a martyr.
@@mollieandtheoldman I didn't know this either but according to the brain trust at Secret Hideout, Captain Reynor is suppose to be a Kellerun. The Kellerun were one of two races that appeared in the DS9 episode Armageddon Game.
Thanks for watching this so that we don't have to! BTW I posted a recommendation for your channel on my channel's community page two days ago to help you get to 1K. Gotta support fellow Trek youTubers! Take care!
Thank you! -- Old Man
You two are among the very best channels on RUclips! Truly, The Best of Both Worlds!!!! LLAP to both channels!
I’m a gay male, from a racial minority background… and I loathe Discovery. It’s preachy, vapid and the characterization of Michael Burnham makes zero sense as a Starfleet officer let alone a captain. Their desperate pandering to original fans, with a TNG storyline had me laughing out loud… it proves why they are ending their show early… because building a new fan-base hasn’t worked, and they want us back! I’m grateful for your channel 🙏🏻 for being a rational and intelligent voice, fearlessly sharing what many of us are thinking. But as happy as I am this travesty is finally over. It makes me sad to ‘hate watch’ Star Trek, my once most-beloved franchise. I find Strange New Worlds just as frustrating to watch. It just doesn’t blend with what came before - and I can’t suspend my disbelief. It has no relation to the five series we all cherished. I wish SecretHideout’s tenure would just end already.
CLAP...CLAP...CLAP!!!
I'm a gay male as well. It honestly boggles my mind that other LGBT people will hold up this show as an example of good queer characters. Aside from the first half of season 1, most of this show is waving a gay or trans character in front of the camera and then punting them aside so Michael can get back on screen.
I’m surprised this series isn’t just Michael solving everything with the rest of the crew just chilling out in sweats. Whenever anyone comes to them with a problem they look up from their phones and say “you have to wait until Michael comes back. Don’t look at us.”
I found season 4 to be the most egregious when it came to MB being the hero of everything. It should have been Book who was able to communicate with species 10-C. He's an empath, and it was his planet that was destroyed. But, somehow, as always, it was Michael Burnham who saved the day. -Mollie
@@mollieandtheoldman They more they try to make MB awesome, the more of a Mary Sue she appears.
Glad to know the crew is so useless, didn't want anything to do this series because the first episode was so boring and i hated how shiny everything was. I was afraid i might have missed out on something but every ad shoved down my throat is impossible for me to listen to.
No, that's reserved for Rey.
Best thing that happened in the walking dead was when she got killed.
Hi, Mollie and the Old Man! 😀 I did not, and will not watch the Abrams Trek movies, because I did not think a prequel series or alternate timeline would do the original series any justice at all. and I have not watched Kurtzman's Star Trek Discovery. I was originally interested in review channels that focused on Disney Star Wars (Ugh), but kept hearing statements about Star Trek as well.
I kept hearing about Michael Burnham, so much so, and in such a way that I thought it was the lead actor's name. You are right, Old Man, Michael-Burnham is an "identity" of her own.
Old Man, you have been on fire in the last few videos, . 🤣 I am not used to such a "retiring" Mollie.😇😁
I wonder whether A. I. is used as well, Mollie. Do they have it already for copyright/intellectual property claims, and the 25%-difference all in one?
Thank you for your review and discussion. My life has gotten more hectic and stressful . Your videos have helped me escape lately.
So we're all children of Michael Burnham. Now I am complete.
Amazing that this is back and this is the first that i have heard about it, not that i watch it mind you, as i steer clear of everything ST from 2009 onwards.
I skimmed through the first episode to see what I missed since dropping out back in early season 3. Two things that bugged me most in this episode was that an 800 year old ship seems to still have power. I don't remember hearing any dialogue like in Booby Trap back on TNG where Data mentions activating a power pack to bring a 1000 year old vessel back to life. It also didn't seem that the away team was all that concerned about an ancient ship being functional. Lastly, the whole progenitors leaving behind any salvageable tech. If we just take humans, which have been around for 200-250 thousand years at our current best guess, as a minimum basis for a timeline of events regarding how long ago the tech they are seeking was used, do you think anything that complex would survive? This also assumes that the progenitors wouldn't have destroyed a lot of their tech at the end to make sure their great experiment didn't destroy itself. If humans can think about something like the prime directive so can an alien species.
I'm confused by the whole plot of this season and the Progenitors. I rewatched TNG The Chase. In that episode, the Progenitors state that they seeded the primordial oceans of many worlds with their DNA.
Why are they looking for Progenitor's technology? What technology? All the progenitors did was seed their DNA and let millions of years of evolution to take it's course. It's not that they used some Genesis device to instantly create life where there was no life. They seeded the primordial oceans where life was beginning with their DNA. What is the Federation trying to discover? How they seeded their DNA in oceans? And how would any physical technology be still around after millions if not just thousands of years later?
I don't think the Discovery writers watched and understand The Chase episode. They are trying to make a Indiana Jones storyline where there is no artifact to be found.
The story structure they are using is something more suited for a fantasy narrative in which the long-lost ancient civilization was somehow more powerful than the current society. Ultimately, this is a McGuffin chase, a trope J.J. Abrams liked to use a lot. It seems he passed his tropisms onto his followers like Alex Kurtzman.
When I thought this show couldn't get any worse, they crash two ships to *checks notes "Shield a city from a landslide..."
Thank you for saving my time watching this.
I honestly do not know how you sit through this show. I could not get through the first season, heck I was done after the first episode. I did come back for season two because of Captain Pike, but they wasted the potential they had with his character.
I commend you for sticking with reviewing this show. You are braver than me. 😂
If you just treat it as a generic sci fi show, it can be somewhat entertaining. That said, I'd glad it's over. I think even I wouldn't have checked a season 6, lol.
In addition to your excellent review, I enjoyed your bonus Picard season 3 rant. I still have a hard time comprehending how so many old fans sang that season's praises. It was the same awful writing as the first two seasons, with some nostalgia hits sprinkled on top.
Also, I think you are right on the money about "Burnham is a progenitor" is where this season is headed.
Hope. That's why a lot of old fans gave it a go - myself included, although with some trepidation. Unlike a fair amount of them, I found it to be too 'member-berry-ish and that last scene with Georgie with him sat in the Captains chair looking at all all of them and then on top of that the new crew of all diverse women + one token white guy just finished it for me. No one seemed to pick up on those things and realise that it was just the same old intersectional feminist stuff which was in Discovery and Picard seasons 1 & 2. I always said that if they balls'd up Picard season 3 up then I wouldn't go back afterwards - and so I'm out.
Yeah, it's what I was expecting.
Are the warp engines detached and flotation? They certainly nailed the 'lame' part of Cartman's line from The Panderverse.
Remember that TOS episode where they basically watched the pilot episode? Now we have Discovery basically watching a TNG episode.
Yes, but The Menagerie is actually interesting (and won a Hugo Award).
I didnt want to waste my life watching this thank you for reviewing this and summerising it
One of the things that bothered me most about Discovery, especially seasons 3-5, was the fact that it was ALWAYS a chase to save the galaxy yet again from some unspeakable threat. The seasons predominantly felt like a big action-scifi movie spread over 10-12-ish episodes. It never felt like a collection of stories like old (read GOOD) Star Trek. And I wasn't even pining for them to make it entirely episodic. The Orville proved that you can have a mix of episodic and longer storylines while getting to know the characters and having both epic and personal journeys.
They jumbled together TNG's "The Chase" and The Force Awakens. 😄
At last. we have the first straight (so far) white male character since Anson Mount left to become the hen pecked captain pike. And what happens. He is court marshaled, demoted and offered the job as Burnhams underling. If he had any pride he would tell her to stick her job offer where the nebula doesnt shine.
But how well does Reynor cook? Does he have his own kitchen (with fireplace) in his quarters? Can he cook up a full 12 course meal? If not, he's pretty useless.
I read a comment or saw this on another review, can't remember, and this person asked why the diary was an actual diary and not a data pad. These episodes sound nuts. I'm glad I noped out of this series before season 1 ended. Great review you 2 as always.
LOL. The ChatGPT stole the diary from 'Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade'. -Mollie
The reason they feel confident rehashing old Star Trek is because they know that most longtime Star Trek fans have already bowed out. And those fans have been proven right time and time again.
I have a feeling they also think by making the new 'stuff' more familiar that they can woo back old fans. They really think we can be tricked that easily. 😒 -Mollie
@@mollieandtheoldman Yeah, they treat ST fans with contempt, thinking all we want is a few 'memberberries to keep us happy while they give us bad stories, unlikeable characters, and a story universe that's a mockery of Roddenberry's optimistic vision.
Do the writers understand that The Progenitors did not have the power to create life? They "seeded" life with common genetic material. As Nitpicking Nerd mentioned on his channel, the Genesis Device was far more powerful than what The Progenitors did. FFS, they included the genesis device in STP season 3 as a memberberry!! So, I'm guessing the writers are completely misinterpreting what The Progenitors actually did and completely forgetting about the Genesis Device.
Nope they don't understand anything at all. My advice is to do what I've been doing for years, ignore this show.
I feel very happy about my decision to not watch season 5. We appreciate your sacrifice to suffer in our stead.
Michael is a Progenitor, and like Odo, it is in her DNA to travel through time and space, to eventually find out who she is. That would actually make the show make sense. Still silly though.
For the love of god. STOP GIVING THESE PEOPLE IDEAS!
@@anonimuso how about after STD ends STD The Animated Series?
Good review. Thanks for reminding me why I stopped watching this show years ago, and I was nice, I gave it two season.
Subscribed, y'all are doing great
I watched the first two episodes just to have a reference point for the season. But I will not be watching anymore. These producers really are Star Wars fans that’s pretty clear. Also, it is so tiring how every season creates these bureaucrats or crewmembers whose purpose is just to argue with Michael Burnham, so the audience can see how perfect she is. All she does is argue, and surf on ships at warp. So boring… thanks for watching this so I won’t have to anymore.
Never come across your channel before, but subbed to get you closer to 1k. :)
We appreciate you subscribing! Welcome to our channel! -Mollie
Very interesting video, keep it up, I just subscribed .
There is an issue with the episode the progenitor race didn't seed the galaxy with life, as the galaxy already had plenty of life, they seeded it with humanoid life. I do not see why discovery is making such as big deal out this tech when the federation has the genesis device.
This is the big question in my head. How are they going to make this lore nonsensical?
This is another prime example of how everything has tricked us into less is more. We used to get 20+ unique sci fi stories EVERY year. (that's why they are called seasons). Now we get one, maybe good enough to be a two parter, story stretched out to 8-10 hours. every 2 to 4 years. AND now the story is a rehash of a story already told.
Look, I get why they used to do things in an episodic way in the past, so that people can jump in at any point and not be lost, and I get that you can have more continuity, character development and growth with the serialized method. But can't we do both now? Can't we have monster of the week, mystery of the week, adventure of the week, AND the continuity since people have now been trained to watch, and have access to, the entire series? We don't have to continue the story from last week, in order for what happened last week to matter and need to be watched to understand why things are as they are.
TV needs to evolve. We want to see our favorite characters in a bunch of different scenarios, and we want to see them grow, change, and have relationships. It's really not that hard. The Orville was able to do it.
I really enjoyed the Orville. I hope we get a new season of that. -Mollie
I would argue that TNG and DS9 had such continuity as well. They referenced events from older episodes all of the time and built on top of it. And they actually respected their world-building (and world-building from TOS). Accurately and without contradictions, I may add.
Yes, Deep Space Nine did that with Nog. He began as a brat chasing girls. He got fed up with his father and joined starfleet. He was more starfleet than Starfleet, making Jake pissed off. He then got injured and overcame his PTSD in "It's Only a Paper Moon".
@@valueofnothing2487 True, but that was a problem for DS9 back then, because people couldn't just watch earlier episodes at the click of a button. But you are right, they can just to make something DS9 like now. I guess Strange New Worlds is trying to do that, but the characters didn't catch me at first viewing. Maybe the next season will get me to re-watch.
@@stopgeorge True, just stop with the 8 hour movie.
Sorry, but the idea that a decades-long starship captain who gets forced into retirement would then take the #2 slot to someone half his age is an idiotic plot point. This is not how militaries or even career paths work. It is a stupid plot move.
I totally agree - this is so extremely stupid on so many levels. I mean, we all know that Michael Burn is a demi-god and can over rule anyone. That has already been established.
But how can anyone on that ship have any respect for Reynor and follow his command as 1st officer? He got forced out, and then came crawling back for a demotion!
I guess Reynor, as someone who is not Michael Burnham, has no pride and has to be shown up by the chosen one.
Ah, but you see, this captain is Michael Jesus Burnham, who can do no wrong and EVERYONE should feel honored to serve under her.
"So much action you don't have time to think about how dumb the story is." Isn't that how all nuTrek works?
E.g. Wait... so Starfleet retires a captain and Michael gets to reverse their decision? Why does she treat the Enterprise as if it were her own private fiefdom where she gets to do whatever she wants, including making her boyfriend part of the crew?
That pretty much sums it up. -Mollie
I know what you are trying to say. Dont forget she is a convicted criminal who was never punished, promoted above her ability and above people higher in the chain of rank than her and ignores superiors and yet takes no responsibility for her actions. Its a real mirror of modern life. (By the way its the Discovery not the Enterprise. Thats being captained by another ball less captain).
You know, throwing this crew into the 32nd century was really a blessing for the writers. It gave them an excuse to allow them to distract the audience with all of this garbage SFX and CGI so that, as you say, the audience would be less likely to pay attention to the quality of the storytelling. Conversely, SFX was really secondary in the original Star Trek series and amplified the need for great storytelling. And, for the most part, that's what we got way back when.
Agreed ❤
Can’t have a male lead unless he’s bitter and angry. That’s discovery in a nutshell
And is being talked down to by a female. That's Nu Trek in a nutshell. Not just Discovery.
After the Disney board vote fiasco I finally figured out who the phantom audience is… Stakeholders. I.E. everybody. Even the ones who are not interested and are not aware of the franchise.
It makes for a handy shield as producers can cherry pick the identity group they want to appeal too. Meanwhile the actual consumers and audience of the franchise are told they are not good enough.
End result, the show claims it is everything for everyone… but it’s all part of a delusion on the part of the producers who can’t understand why the stakeholder isn’t working them.
I laughed when Saru transported right beside the Vulcan ambassador without warning and she just turned and said "Hello Saru". That would have made me jump! Your take on Burnham character assumes that the writers think she was in the wrong and needed to learn from experiences; she was always awesome - first officer on the Shenzhou held back by her captain, she was right all along and is frequently proven to be making the right decisions because she's the main protagonist and has to always be right and save the day.
As for Tilly teaching at the Academy, I think it's as simple as Kurtzman making a Starfleet Academy spin-off show and taking a fan favorite character from Discovery.
Picard S3 was the closest Kurtzman trek got to ST:TNG - acknowledging all it is flaws... and there was a lot. What annoys me is that Terry Matalas is held up as some saviour of Star Trek by making a season that was marginally better than the awful two seasons that came before his (hardly a challenge).
Once I want a person to teleport into a room and find people doing something private.. getting dressed, taking a shower, etc. 😂
@@zignamuclickclickkThe first doody.
Shaw did no really do anything heroic...
Disco Season 5 has now managed to be the lowest rated season of the entire series so far on Rotten Tomatoes. It now has an average rating of 20% from the viewers. How low can it go?
The problems with Michael Burnham have nothing to do with her race or her sex but actually it is all about her character. They really do not know what to do with her.
Exactly. She's a walking identity with no character in sight. -Mollie
Yeah, I don't think they have a tech bible for this show. They probably reject the idea of any sort of a show bible because they want to be new and different.
That was a QUICK season. Because no way in hell am I watching anymore of that. It's an insulting, uninspired story. A fetch quest and race chase. Shame because the effects looked pretty good. It looked so much like Star Trek trying to be Star Wars unabashedly.
P.S. I assume Tilly will be teaching a course on Body Positivity.
No doubt we will be seeing more of her this season.
Only if they can find a room big enough.
39:37: "To this day, I do not understand why people say Season 3 of Picard was any better."
Season 3 of Picard was horrific. Picard attempts murder, Beverly commits murder, Worf sanctions torture, Starfleet and the Federation sanction torture, Riker blames somebody else for his own mistake, Troi scorns her patient. TNG's heroes were turned into evil scumbags.
I could only get through about 3 episodes even after the recommendation of all of the channels that we both probably like and watch. I don't understand what they saw that made them say season 3 was so great.
Soon as I saw the clip that made Beverly into a cold-blooded killer, I knew nothing had changed.
The entire point of STP3 was that Picard rescue his son from the Borg. As if anybody would want to live with the Borg.
100% agree. And Captain dipshit Shaw?!! A Captain who just stood there watching his chief science officer get murdered and never spoke of her again afterwards. What a guy! And people loved him.
Be careful what you ask for..... things could be *MUCH* worse than Pic S3..... as Discovery proves.
My friend calls Michael Burham "Space Jesus." 😜🤷🏻♀And I have to agree with their description. In TOS TNG, DS9 etc there were _consequences_ for the crew members actions. It seems that anyone can do anything and get away Scott free. I hope that someday that the Kelvin Timeline is de-canonized. And that they bring back the Prime Timeline. I hope that the next series takes place in the 24th Century. I'm tired of the Kirk era Trek series. And no, I won't be watching Star Trek anytime soon. Until they bring back the original format, I'm not watching. So I'm very glad that channels like you two (as well as you both) take time out of your schedules to make videos like these.
I thought Nerdrotic went too far in calling her space Jesus. But then she did fly around in a red angel suit and appearing over places throughout time inspiring civilization to progress. So in effect she really was a Space Jesus.
Thank you so much! I think the best we can hope for is for the other timelines to just be ignored. Also, watch out with the 'Prime' timeline label. Abrams came up with that, and I'm suspicious of anything that man does. I always just tell people I want the original timeline back. -Mollie
I thought there was a 50/50 chance for them to do stupid action, but I never thought they'd STP3 it.
Did Burnham admit that she got a second chance because she did something wrong, or was she implying that her imprisonment was wrong?
And did they have to have Moll say "breathable air, my ass"? They took us to the 32nd century to do this?
And if the last episode was Arsenal of Freedom what's the next episode going to be? And when will we see the Borg?
That's a good question about MB's second chance. She didn't specify what she did. And you make a good point about the language. I noticed a few swears being used in these episodes. Of course, we'll always remember Tilly dropping the f bomb back in season one. -Mollie
LOL. I can't imagine rewatching Picard, or any NuTrek really...maybe Prodigy if it gets a second season. I will rewatch Tuvix again.
Netflix picked up Prodigy, and season 2 is supposed to be released on Netflix later this year. I think it started airing in France last month. -Mollie
Sadly, Prodigy is the most Trek like show of all of Nu Trek. And no, Lower Decks' memberberries does not make it Star Trek. It's just another derivative over the top farcical comedy. Something I would argue is not in the spirit of the core essence of the franchise. Call me a purist, but that's how I feel. Star Trek is not a comedy show. That's why comparisons with the Orville are off target, IMO.
Maybe someone will see this comment and can "answer". The Progenitors seeded all humanoid life in the galaxy, right? Now I know the Progenitors are not the Changelings, despite the Founders leader and the Progenitor from TNG being the same actress, BUT did the Progenitors seeding lead to Changelings too, or did Changelings evolve on their own like the Progenitors presumably did (though I guess it's possible some even older species could have created them), OR did some other ancient race seed the Changeling evolution?
Holy run on question, Batman! But I'm not rephrasing because it's basically comprehendible. Right? :)
Good question! I guess we'll just have to wait and see if they give us an answer. -Mollie
You are up to 911, I can't break that number. I will come back later
I saw Star Trek Nitpickers gave you guys a shout out! I hope you crack 1k soon! Good luck to ya!
So the self-proclaimed champions of diversity take on "the chase" which proves that all races go back to the same ancestry. This is going to go reaaaaaally well. 😶🌫
In the recap, when I heard and saw about the ships dumping in the sand, I was struck at just how dumb can you get! And I was super-angry at the war-criminal Burnham getting to hand out second chances!
The screenshot of them being attacked by drones looks an awful reminiscent of "Arsenal of Freedom"
His name was Ardeth Bay btw.
I believe, at Starfleet Academy, Tilly teaches the relationship between Mass + Gravity on large bodies.
Plus, and maybe I’m mistaken here since I didn’t watch the previous seasons too closely. But I thought the galaxy was without warp speed for like 200 years or something. Didn’t Discovery just gift the galaxy warp speed back in season three. So how is it that all the characters have these memories of traveling and fighting at warp speed, and how is it that Moll and Lock have all these warp signature devices… wasn’t warp speed just reintroduced to the galaxy two years ago? Huh…
Yeah, that kelpian wrecked the dilithium somehow and caused 'the burn'. What I think happened is the ChatGPT or whatever Kurtzman and Paradise use, harvested story elements from an episode of Firefly that used the multiple signatures scenario. It's a shame these writers don't have the imagination required to write a story about getting the Federation, Starfleet, and technology in general back up and running. The way they write is more like a soft reboot every season. -Mollie
I was hanging out with my friend makers mark. It was weird watching it. Just finished voyager and started watching andor. Everything seemed to be Burnhams fault. It’s so different than voyager it’s crazy. You mentioned the awkwardness of Tilly and the dude. One of things that stand out in voyager is they will flirt and tease each other. That seems to be something missing from all modern shows. And why is David Cronenberg in it? It’s too crazy to understand. It’s like David Lynch being a regular in the boba fett show. Andor is good so far, the look of the actors and sets and cinematography look like old star wars and 2001.
I enjoyed Andor for a while, but it moved too slowly for me and I, unfortunately, lost interest. It was still a million times better than this though. -Mollie
I’m enjoying the look of it and the synth music. Reminds me of raised by wolves a little. Always enjoy your commentary.
The ships crashing was dumb...especially rayners ship...it takes time to blast thru the atmosphere...they do it by magic and coming to a dead stop...seriously
At last a end to the haladeck program malfunction
Do these new STAR TREK writers ever pay any attention to what they have written, certainly not the producers.
To be fair, it's hard to pay attention and keep things straight when you have 22 producers. After 15 producers I'm sure they can't remember they are making Star Trek ... and it shows. 😋
No. They can't keep their own world-building straight.
Honestly, does anyone care about Saru and the Vulcan lady? There was so much time repeatedly focused on this. It just went on and on and on.
So 1000 means you put in ads?
WELL COUNT me IN!
No, 1000 does not mean that they put in ads. From the beginning of the channel, RUclips reserves the right to put in ads and RUclips keeps all the ad money until the channel has 1000 subscribers. When the channel has 1000 subscribers, the channel can apply to RUclips for "monetization", which means the channel might get a small portion of the ad money from RUclips.
This dog took a dump after season 2 left it on a failing life support to eventually die off slowly. Which is exactly what it is finally doing.
Iwatched the first episode and stopped. I can't watch this BET production any more.
Star trek discovery season 5 , India Jones
Burnham is Jesus, God and the Holy Ghost all rolled into one, the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning of Time and the end of Space... this is what Trek writing has become, lol.
Isn't it funny that Marina from Lower Decks is actually EVERYTHING Burnham should be as a character, an egotistical, self centered maniac but one who is actually likable and with real depth.
Marina learns, develops and feels, Marina tries to go solo on stuff and fails, then learns humility and only succeeds when she includes her friends and depends on her collegues!
Burnham doesn't do this, she just solves every puzzle and saves every day and then the credit rolls, lol. That cartoon is better than the big budget show, hahaha
Good point. But I don't like Marina or Lower Decks either.
@@stopgeorge She's not likely as such, but because she's well written, I thikn she's a fantsatic character, unlike Burnham.
@@Nemoticon I find her annoying and she should not be anywhere near Starfleet.
The AI generated stories needs to be looked into further.
So if these two episodes are less egregious than past episodes, all I have to say is just wow. Looks like the plan is to quadruple down on everything wrong with this show. My only prediction is when they get to the last episode the reaction will be "Is that it?" as in the ending will be so lame and predictable, cringe won't be strong enough. Listening to you, I think you've already nailed the ending sarcasm not withstanding. I think the likelihood that Burnham will be THE Progenitor who now remembers who she is is closer to 100 percent.
Tilly is teaching gender studies
"Shut up. Champagne"
-- brilliant writing.
Or perhaps P.E. 🫠
Please people are people 😊
SUBSCRIBED. Now 916👍🏿
the star craft idea is not to far fetched given that basically everything in discovery was one way or another taken from a video game
case and point the spordrive is a direct rip off of a indi game called "tardigrade" from the 2014s
I keep hoping for the tardigrade to show up and take its revenge. -Mollie
39 subs to go 😲
It's been amazing how many subs we got from this video. Everyone who helped spread the word about our channel - we greatly appreciate -- Old Man
And they COMPLETELY *IGNORED* the ENTIRE DS9 series! and the whole Dominion War! I mean give me a - break. Just rehashing an old stupid story ignoring the most important parts of Star Trek History on the very subject. lame. I'm skipping the season until the final episode just to see how stupid they make it. it'll probably end exactly like the TNG episode did! I'll bet $5 on that.
Her character doesn't understand why
I didn't think the two episodes where as bad as everyone makes them out to be. Yea I thought it was weird they used the Aliens that created life. I don't agree with it. Neither do I agree with it when TNG used it. I still think Discovery is way better than Lower Decks. I can't stand that show.
Fair enough. We didn't like Lower Decks either. -Mollie 😊
My sub and my like are both pale and male. 🎉
The first season of Discovery was good, but this season is garbage like the last few seasons.
I refuse to watch this. Love your shows, I thought this was before Kirk and spock? How do they know about picard? Are they still in the future? Thank god it's over, they have tanked an entire network with this garbage
You got it. They started out before TNG, and they're still in the future. I've never been so happy to say that the future can be rewritten. -Mollie
He may be pale male and stale, but he is the best actor in 5 seasons..he will bring the show to the finish line.
I certainly hope that's the case. So far, he seems like a decent and relatable character. -Mollie
@@mollieandtheoldman what has me wondering is why you hang labels on a seasoned actor who has never had a bad review? I saw him and my first thoughts, finally someone closer to normal, rather than the collection of oddballs they have put together over the past several years. I suppose they figured they hit rock bottom with Stacy Abrams. They certainly couldn't do any worse by bringing in someone in that conforms more to the characters of Star Trek past. Someone who is a little bit of a swashbuckler, more in the image of William Shatner or Avery Brooks. Next thing you know, they will introduce a hetrosexual white couple with normal kids.
It was a from a sarcastic joke I made in our review about the way Discovery usually operates. My biggest fear is that he was brought in so Michael Burnham could spend the rest of the season 'correcting' him. -Mollie
@@mollieandtheoldman I think your fear is warranted. Personally, I don't think Kurtzman and the writers can help themselves by feeding this character to the misandry machine or, perhaps, in the end having the white male betray everyone (not unlike Judas) with Burnham literally becoming space Jesus and becoming a martyr.
the new captain turned #1 seems like the only qualified person to be on that ship. what race is he? love the ears
We were also discussing his race, but we're not sure what he's supposed to be. -Mollie
@@mollieandtheoldman I didn't know this either but according to the brain trust at Secret Hideout, Captain Reynor is suppose to be a Kellerun. The Kellerun were one of two races that appeared in the DS9 episode Armageddon Game.