Okay Molly, you got me with the Burnham reflecting on her part in starting a war, lol. For a second, I was like wow, did the writers suddenly stop huffing glue and finally learn how to write competently? Lol
Writers in Hollywood are now being subject to powerpoint presentations for pitch presentations... Just imagine the extroverted imbecilic writers who would do well in that scenario, and how now a single good writer who hates the light, and prefers to read instead of socialize would fair... I think that sums up exactly what the Whedonist trash writing is so prevalent in modern media. Wow look, you hired the dude bro dimwits to write your shows, and IT SHOWS.
I think you're right with the universal translator because every time a Klingon insulted someone or someone insulted them back it was in Klingon not English, I also thought it was funny that Discovery was taking damage when a 24th century Runabout would have no damage at all, in the library that can move anywhere didn't decide to move away from the breem when they started to attack them.
The reason the Maquis used the badlands was because runabouts were small and could navigate the plasma storms easier. Larger ships couldn't maneuver and would suffer heavy damage. If anything, the Breen dreadnaught should have been heavily damaged flying in a straight line to the oasis where the library was resting.
I can easily see younger people not knowing about the Babylon 5 episode, but it's still pretty messed up these shows are just taking scenes from better series and using them for their own. Been doing that since season 1.
We are more worried about the writers. If one is writing in Hollywood today in 2024 and an AI gives an outline for a scifi script, silly me thinks those writers SHOULD know older works so that they can avoid the things that we complain about - un-credited 'borrowing" -- Old Man
Michael Burnham is their favourite character. If they don't want to her admit and address her crimes, then they won't write that in the script. I kinda want to know how far she would have gone in TNG DS9 or even Voyager. She'd be sent down to Ensign longer than Ensign Kim was and Ensign. 😂
I'd like to agree, but Janeway made Chakotay, a rebel traitor, her second in command, so maybe it's possible she forgives Michael and allows her to gain rank like anyone else. And we all know Burnham is a master puzzle solver, so she would have been at least Lt. Commander by the time Voyager got home. LOL>
You had me for a minute with Burnham supposedly admitting her guilt about her previous actions. I should've known that this show wasn't capable of that type of quality writing.
I just said what so many of us have been waiting five seasons to hear. It's a shame the writers won't let her say it. It wouldn't fix the show, but it would make a HUGE difference. -Mollie
Michael Burnham is afraid of not being a good-enough friend. I wonder why. Is it because she betrayed Philippa Georgiou (her captain, her mentor, and her mother-figure) when she neck-pinched the captain into unconsciousness and mutinied against her? Is it because she lied to Saru, her captain, and then secretly disobeyed his direct order, forcing him (when he found out) to demote her because he could no longer trust her? Is it because she betrayed Paul Stamets (who had sacrificed a great deal for her) by knocking him out, forcibly confining him, and launching him out into space in a pod over which he had no control (in space threatened by the Emerald Chain)? For someone to be Michael Burnham’s friend, they must prepare to receive her knife in their back.
The number one thing the producers of Discovery are trying to do this entire season is to show us a strong women black captain. Listen, they utterly FAILED. Captain Sisko is and was the PERFECT representation of a proper captain and is truly one of the best captains Star Trek has. Siako was perfection, showing us strength and a classic liberal representation of a character in a universe that does not see color and embrases diversity. What they gave us is a woke millinial todler version in Burnham that in my opnion has like most modern woke version, shoving in down our throat as much as possible (hell, was it last episode that she proudly proclaimed to our faces something like "ITS BLACK") has set back the bar and is going to need to be repaired in future Star Treks once someone sets strait whatever the "F" is going on in these producers head today. The fact is that due to this absolute failure and extreeme woke culture, they cannot show her being a failure in any way, she has to be the perfect "Mary Sue".
If you take away the Star Trek universe from the show, it's about a woman and her boyfriend hanging out together in every episode. Their friends, whom we know nothing about, cheer them on and add nothing to the plot.
To be fair, they're hunting clues hidden by TNG-era scientists within the distances they could travel at that time. But the whole "missed their target by six hours and now they're dead in the water" thing was just way too convenient and was done just to create a race to the finish line.
Apparently every intelligent species ever writes Humanoid books, even if they don't have eyes and appendages or access to what looks like paper.. Giving the assembled clues to the Breen is dumb what happens when you get to the final location and you find the assembled clues are the "key" to open a final lock on the tech After getting through the plasma storms The Navigator describes the episode and this series with two words ,.. "Holy Shit ."
Always appreciative how you point out the STD scenes and old shows where STD took "inspiration" from: Star Gate and Babylon. Thank you! Definitely agree that the language and mannerisms of some of the characters were horrible and very California. My conclusion is that the actors are not acting, they're just portraying themselves in some of these scenes. I also watched the 7th Rule post on this episode and they had two of the writers on their show...interesting input on the thought process behind this episode, but not surprising.
This is an interesting comment and it permeates in comic book media currently as well with many of the new writers. I’ve heard many writers for movies and comics say they want to “bring Superman down to earth to our level” so we can identify with him” Why? There was a study Lego did between how boys/girls play. Controversial of course…but in playing the boys wanted “to be” Batman but the girls would take Batman or another character and would make that character “act/be like them”. Maybe that’s why you notice this in the acting of the show. I dunno balance of the writing room but reading other comments and how if a female character leaves or promoted she’s replaced by another female.Just a thought or two.
In 2023, Mollie and the Old Man produced a very thought-provoking video titled, "Are We Watching Episodes Written By AI? Mollie Tries Out ChatGPT". Both the video and the comment section are equally intriguing: I highly recommend them. [I was reminded of that by some comments in this section.]
Actually, Rhys is in the show since S1, starting as a Lieutenant; the first time his name was spoken on screen was in 1x05 “Choose Your Pain” (23:57). But I don’t fault you for forgetting him, he was never that interesting, although his name was spoken 71 times across all seasons. (Yeah, subtitle files are a blessing)
This really does feel like they have a ChatGPT trained on scripts and stories from other sci-fi properties and it just mashes up whatever and craps out nonsense, the actors read what's on the page and everyone pats themselves on the back. This one felt a lot like the season 1 finale of The Librarians. My thoughts while watching: - Moll waited for the funeral to tell them she can raise the dead and restore the Scion? Seems like that would have come up earlier in conversation. I guess she could have been waiting to announce it publicly (to prevent him from outright executing her), but some explanation of that would have made for a better episode. - I bet a few other people have loved ones they'd want to revive and might look to getting their hands on that tech themselves. - The Badlands don't look quite the same as DS9 & the Voyager pilot....they seem less colourful and there are no plasma vortexes. Just orange clouds. - Why does this librarian woman sound like she's giving a sales pitch complete with a disclaimer? She doesn't sound alien at all. - I totally forgot Discovery has a cloak now. They never use it. - How do the Breen know where Discovery is? Was Moll shown the last clue? - This feels like an episode of the Librarians. - Was Burnham going to read or scan the text of the book? Often these clues have a few components in the environment that aren't obvious. - Why does the librarian know his nickname is "Book"? She called him Mr. Booker right before now. Assuming she's an alien speaking an alien language via the universal translator, why would she be able to make wordplay between "Booker" (a proper name) and whatever her word for book is? - If the librarians didn't know what the root was, why would they move it to a place of honour? It could be Kweijan animal excrement. - How did Burnham come to the "this isn't real" conclusion within a few seconds? Based on Book's clothing? - Culber seems to know everything about this device plus is able to jump to the conclusion that it isn't capable of multiple connections. - Why is nobody attempting to translate the book that the device was hidden in? (afternote: Raynor eventually looks at it) - I was going to complain about how quickly the Breen got there using conventional warp, but presumably Breen space is fairly close to the badlands given the events of DS9. - The Breen can track spore drive jump signatures? - Moll's plan to steal Discovery's clues to complete the key doesn't make any sense. Discovery can jump away to anywhere in the galaxy and hide the pieces. Or just outright destroy them. - The mind-Book lied. He said Burnham didn't ask him if she was on the right track but she specifically asked if History was the right area of the library to check and he simply didn't answer her. - The "correct" conclusions Burnham keeps reaching seem implausibly arrived at. - So the TNG-era librarian read "A Comprehensive Guide to Talaxian Hair Styles"? I guess Voyager brought back a copy of Neelix's cultural database because that'd be the only Talaxian they'd have any data from at that time. - How is Book going to help with defenses in an unfamiliar alien library? Oh, run around the halls and act as a target. - How does Burnham have access to Tricorder holodata in a mental labyrinth? - Why is Discovery calling Raynor? Won't the Breen be able to triangulate their position? - Burnham's lack of self-identity just seems so faked. Who has she ever had to prove anything to? Everyone constantly blows rainbows up her butt about how wonderful she is. - The Breen use base-duodeca coding? As in base-12? Humans use base-10 (decimal) but for data everything is ultimately stored in base-2 (binary). Even TNG-era computers still stored and transmitted data in a binary format. Not sure what about a different number base makes it harder to hack. - A library, a labyrinth, lights going out...reminds me a lot of Season 1, Episode 10 of The Librarians ("...And the Loom of Fate"). - I sort of wish addressing her mutiny and kicking off a major war would be something about herself that she had to address. But no, it's just her imposter syndrome. Yawn. - This whole mind-labyrinth thing is pretty sophisticated tech for TNG-era scientists. - Why would Burnham lead the away team to the final clue without a weapon? Rainer should have lead or at least armed her. - I guess those Breen on board have no issue destroying their culture's artifacts when they opened fire. - Good thing the Breen weapons don't damage the spore drive....oh I was wrong. - Ah, how convenient...off target and no warp drive. A guaranteed race to the finish line. - The Primarch should just kill Moll before she sows any more seeds of dissension amongst his crew....oops too late...he's dead. - Too bad a warrior race with magic weapons wouldn't have security measures that prevent their weapons from being used by unauthorized personnel.
Discovery writers actually knowing anything about other sci-fi shows is giving them too much credit. I think the AI is pulling from other science fiction series and the Discovery people are just lapping it up with zero understanding of what the AI coughed up.
They had to have a library because National Treasure has a library scene (President's book where the clue was a photo in between pages). This seems like an AI generated plot based on National Treasure with a sci-fi setting. I wish Burnham really said what Molly stated in the synopsis, that would have been more original. "Who are you?" "I'm Michael Burnham!" "No, that is your name, who are you?" heh I loved all that philosophy in B5 "We created the world we think you would have wished for us, and now we leave the cradle for the last time" . Yeah, it sure seems like it's heading towards Book getting his planet back, which seems well beyond the capabilities that the Progenitors appeared to possess in TNG, but whatever, at least they're not SPACE BABIES!
I felt this way last season and I feel it this season: this show is little more than a vehicle Cole for Sonequa Martin Green’s personal ego at this point. She’s a producer. She has creative input.
Rhys has been with the show from the first season, but all he ever used to say was, "There is no response." This demonstrates how phoney the show's DEI policy is: the show has failed so badly at developing his character, he might as well be a piece of furniture (until this episode).
"Everybody is a Commander." In the 32nd Century, anyone will be able to just walk into a Starfleet office and say, "I self-identify as a Starfleet Commander," and WHOOSH there's your Starfleet commission right there.
Before her Lois Lane role on Smallville, Erica Durance starred in a Season 4 episode of Andromeda where Dylan Hunt also went to a library. There were bad guys there too, but it's been so long since I saw the episode that I honestly couldn't say how similar it was to this trash. Babylon 5 is my favourite TV series and I like how often you reference it because it's good quality Sci-Fi. You said something about a long video, but you have such refreshingly honest and informative opinions about the stuff you review that even a two hour video would still be entertaining. Thanks for another cool video...! 👍🏻
Babylon 5 is one of our favorites as well. We worry if JMS gets his reboot what might happen. But we'd still like to see it. Maybe he'll surprise us? We're not sure how well the YT algorithm rewards long form but we like to talk things out so we tend to deliver longer videos. Good to hear that this works for you -- Old Man
@@mollieandtheoldman I'm also a little worried about the B5 reboot. I don't know which side JMS leans to politically, but we know who's been destroying our beloved media the last few years and we know that JMS didn't get along with Jerry Doyle (Garibaldi) who was a known right wing radio host. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll find out in due time I guess.
The problem is with some of JMS' original ideas. The Minbari were supposed to be an androgynous race (or male, I forget which one was decided). So, in 1992, Delenn turning part human and thus female would be something different and a cool concept to explore. In 2024, I don't know how you pull that off w/o current day politics taking sides in a cultural war. Yes, it was in the original idea (and technology wasn't ready yet to make it happen in 1992), but it's 2024 and that sort of topic NOW is a powder keg -- Old Man
@@mollieandtheoldman Yeah, if that had been done then I think it would have been interesting as you say. We can accept people that are different from ourselves and co-exist with them, but the problem is that nowadays that's not enough it has to be forced down our throats. 🤷🏻♂
Can you make a character that is so strong and perfect that she can solve all her problems and work through them? Can God make a boulder that is so large he cannot lift it? This is essentially the problem they are having with Burnham. They want her to be perfect and be able to learn from her mistakes, but they made her perfect with what they feel are no mistakes. And so she has to apologize but be vague in doing so because she can't admit that she has done anything wrong. On top of this, she even lies about her relationship with Book. She didn't just push him away because she felt afraid. She pushed him away because he was a traitor that attacked the Federation and 10-C - an alien species with innocent intentions. t The season is nothing but lies. Also, the very fact that the Breen are being able to get to the tech proves that the entire effort to hide the technology with clues and tests failed. The Breen has not passed a single test. And yet they are closing in on the technology because Burnham is leading them there. It is completely and utterly ridiculous.
They have been trying all season to re-write Burnham's character. So, they must know that they messed up with the character but have no ability to fix it other than to try to - look over there and retcon it. -- Old Man
You can’t make a black female character that has any flaws. I’m a black male so I can say that. Also this reflects real life in dealing with black women so there’s no room for character studies and growth so writers are in a small box.
"Can you make a character that is so strong and perfect that she can solve all her problems and work through them? " Sure. You just make all the problems really easy for the character to solve, and have everyone praise her to the moon for solving them. It's like giving a child a participation award and acting like it's a Nobel prize because you want to boost their ego. It makes for a crappy drama, because there is no reason to get emotionally involved. Also makes for a child with entitlement issues. As for Book -- what does it say about Burnham when her best friends and lovers are all criminals (Tyler, Book, Georgiou) and she is a criminal? How I miss when Starfleet captains were people you could aspire to.
@@dramaticwords I think the writers just want everything to be edgy. Let's have the first officer shoot her captain! They won't expect that. Let's have Burnham's boyfriend be a secret Klingon spy! They won't expect that. I still want to know why Burnham went to the mirror universe and brought back Georgiou. I did not expect that. And then of course you put a genocidal maniac in the Federation because you hate the Federation I guess...
Looks like this was filmed at Robarts Library, University of Toronto, which is built in the god awful brutalist architectural style. It's basically a giant hunk of concrete
Mol is to Trek what Harley Quinn has become to DC. Apparently it doesn't matter how many people you've hurt, without ever having to make amends you can be a good guy if you decide to be who you were for the other side. But unlike Harley who now hates the Joker, Mol would totally flip back to evil if her BF told her too... Unless she undergoes unseen character development and decides to be good and kill's her BF and takes all the power for herself after she's proved to the Klingo..- Sorry, Breen... what a good and effective leader she can be in her own right. ... I'm getting alot of STD Klingon storyline vibes from the Breen the further in we go and unlike the Klingons, there is not enough known about the Breen to call SH out except that certain DEI beats are mirroring previous seasons.
Get real, you can bring up Burnham's faults as much as you want to but she has no guilt over it and neither do the writers. By the way, where are the Klingons in this era, they are never mentioned.
That's the real problem. The writers are so unenlightened they don't realize Burnham is a highly flawed character -- more suited to be a villain than a hero.
Why would the Progenitors want someone like Michael Burnham to have their (probably outdated by now) technology? What special wisdom does she possess that no one else could have? None that I can see.
What's more, the Federation already had the Genesis device 900 years ago. It also created life from nothing. Why has this never come up in conversations?
@@dramaticwords Well, we know from one interview that there is one writer that is the resident expert for canon. He said he binge-watched TOS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager before he was to start. He didn't get to finish Voyager, apparently. What's ironic is that they had the Genesis Device front and center on that secret laboratory facility on Picard Season 3.
@@stopgeorge I'm not sure you can binge watch something and be a canon expert. You don't retain a lot that way. Most serious ST canon people have watched every series multiple times over years.
@@dramaticwords No, of course not. They seem to think it's enough, though. I brought it up because it tells you a lot as to why Kurtzman Trek is so bad.
WWPD? WWKD? WWJD? I think Picard, Kirk, and Janeway would have just set the self destruct and said back off or we all die. When is the last time a Starfleet captain set the self destruct? Voyager? Nobody has tested the Breen survival instinct. I seem to recall them knowing when the jig is up in the Dominion War, and when to call it quits.
How did Moll know where Discovery was going? The only possibility would be that Book told her, right? And why would Discovery immediately go to the Valley Girl Library if they knew that the Breen could follow them? Did Book betray them again?
Allegedly, the Breen can track Discovery's jumps. The Breen are conveniently incompetent when they believe Discovery destroyed at the end of this episode, when all they have to do is follow the smell of burning mushrooms. -Mollie 🤣
@@mollieandtheoldman I laughed out loud when they had Discovery actually smoking after the jump. With the smoke plume streaming upwards I may add. (They have science advisors apparently)😂. Ok, if they can track them, then Burnham indirectly put the Valley Girl Library people directly at risk by doing this. And, because; Moll is 2 clues behind, there is no urgency to go there immediately.
His birth name is Tareckx, like his father. He took the name Cleveland Booker after Moll's father. [He took his new name because the four previous Cleveland Bookers were considered trustworthy, and he wanted to follow their way. Somehow I am not surprised that he later became a criminal, thus failing to be trustworthy.]
@@user-ec5bo8tx4n That's what I thought. So I didn't misremember. I didn't remember his birth name, but I knew Book wasn't his name and that he got it from Moll's father. But then again, he considers it his real name so I guess it is.
Assorted points in no order or relevance: 1: On dialect that actually makes more sense than you think if you look at what they have been doing with STDs setting. the 32 century is supposed to represent a VERY post civil rights America where races have began to dissolve into the "melting pot". (Or what the "agenda" wants for society) Logically accents, dialects and even entire languages will fall by the wayside is what the ideology supposes. The thought being as we can see in the setting is a LOT of hybrids interbred. Finding "purebloods" in starfleet would be exceedingly difficult. As those cultures assimilate into each other, they too would lose their original cultural identities. 2: As for Rhys (rice, even though they mispronounce it) has been there since the very begining. We understand that the original Disco bridge crew started off as extras they just stuck with, but he literally came with the ship. Honestly it was always unusual as hell to have ensigns on the bridge. The bridge SHOULD have almost exclusively commanders, cause a bridge is a command center of a ship. You want your best of the best there with all your LtJGs down in lower decks working their way up, Literally. 3: I think you are close on the world tree cuttings, but off just a little bit. Book will be presented with that opportunity to regrow his world, however if you notice that cutting looks like 2 separate ones and those cuttings are intertwined. Its basically going to come down to a point where Mol is dying in her quest to resurrect L`ak. With the combination of the progenitors tech and this cutting they use one to rez l`ak and book has to give up his world to save Mol, cause remember, she is "the closest thing I have to family" So I dont see Emperess Burnham being a part of that equation, but it still ends up being as predictable and hackneyed as you project it as. 4: as for theft, "There hasnt been an original idea since the ancient Greeks". We have all seen rehashes of old ideas in sci fi. Some make something better than what they took. STD's track record has been pitiful at times. It has gotten better, but its already hard coded into its DNA. In fact, that idea of theft is what prompted me to take about a year of my life and rewatch the entirety of Star trek and do so as they aired. From The Man Trap up till what ever the newest episodes of STD/STP/LD were at the time of the end of the first season of The Orville. Cause the Orville, especially in its first season was a perfect demonstration that TO was always just trek + shit McFarlane found funny online. I found comparisons from each series of trek to tropes from Dr Who and even more modern takes like a rehash of the "social score" episode of PROPER black Mirror. Which is why I can forgive trek stealing from other sci fi. Nothing is original and how many times have things stolen from trek? The unacceptable thing is that if you steal you are expected to do something unique with your theft. STD and to a lesser extent SNW have stolen plenty, they rarely make it better or explore something different with it. Look, Im a person more for end results. Yes its theft. Everyone steals in that industry. The entire industry is built on theft. So I dont mind trek stealing. Cause even when trek does steal and even when its a bad theft... Its still trek and even the worst trek is still better than the curse of Moonves we endured and having no trek at all. 5 Or 4.5 if you will: This season IS the best season of STD. I think they hAVE learned their lesson of what doesnt work and how much the audience is going to tolerate agendaism in the show. They seem to have found the limit of the audience and this season is trying its damnest to show you its going to respect that current threshhold (pun definitely intended) of bullshit being forced on the audience. Not for STDs sake but trying to assure you that Academy is something we will want to follow. I think for the most part if they can keep themselves in check to at least this level or less of the failed STD agendaism, it will make Academy at least viable. On par with where they have SNW sitting right now. EDIT: 6: It didnt feel like trek. It felt more like trek X The magicians. Its not just the library either. Narratively and the way it is acted as a whole. Specifically unfortunately wordy scenes with Stella Maeve vibe
I did not know that they made 5 seasons of this. I stopped watching at season 3 episode 3. (and I skipped parts of the episodes, I did not even fully watch the last few episodes of season 2) Its too bad. I normaly like Star Trek enough to rewatch series a lot. I think I watched Enterprise twice or maybe even 3 times? TNG, Voyager and DS9 all 5 times for sure. I am not a huge fan of TOS because its age, but still, maybe 3 times? I even saw Strange New Worlds twice allready. I also like Lower decks. But STD I will never touch again. Maybe I will try to watch one episode of season 4 and 5 just to confirm that it is still this bad? But why? This video tells me everything I need to know.
Okay Molly, you got me with the Burnham reflecting on her part in starting a war, lol. For a second, I was like wow, did the writers suddenly stop huffing glue and finally learn how to write competently? Lol
Naw, I wasn't fooled at all ... okay, maybe for a second or two ... or ten or twenty ... yeah, she got me. 🤣
She got me too at first, and I actually watched the episode! I thought maybe it was so boring I missed that part until I caught on :P
Yep, I was also taken in by the sudden veer towards unexpected self-reflection and profundity, only to be jerked back to reality
Writers in Hollywood are now being subject to powerpoint presentations for pitch presentations...
Just imagine the extroverted imbecilic writers who would do well in that scenario, and how now a single good writer who hates the light, and prefers to read instead of socialize would fair...
I think that sums up exactly what the Whedonist trash writing is so prevalent in modern media. Wow look, you hired the dude bro dimwits to write your shows, and IT SHOWS.
I think you're right with the universal translator because every time a Klingon insulted someone or someone insulted them back it was in Klingon not English, I also thought it was funny that Discovery was taking damage when a 24th century Runabout would have no damage at all, in the library that can move anywhere didn't decide to move away from the breem when they started to attack them.
The reason the Maquis used the badlands was because runabouts were small and could navigate the plasma storms easier. Larger ships couldn't maneuver and would suffer heavy damage.
If anything, the Breen dreadnaught should have been heavily damaged flying in a straight line to the oasis where the library was resting.
@@claytonrumley that was only shown once in Star Trek Voyager but that hasn't been shown any time in Deep Space Nine
Sidenote: The actor who played Reese on the bridge had a baby on the same day when he filmed that shot.
Also, that library reminds me of Doctor Who.
A little disappointing they didn't get eaten by the Vashta Narada, lol.
I can easily see younger people not knowing about the Babylon 5 episode, but it's still pretty messed up these shows are just taking scenes from better series and using them for their own. Been doing that since season 1.
We are more worried about the writers. If one is writing in Hollywood today in 2024 and an AI gives an outline for a scifi script, silly me thinks those writers SHOULD know older works so that they can avoid the things that we complain about - un-credited 'borrowing" -- Old Man
@@mollieandtheoldman Completely agree, though I don't expect them to given their trek expert's experience was binging episodes over a weekend.
@@reaverofjillsandwiches Psssh.... they probably just rode the FF button all weekend -- Old Man
@@mollieandtheoldman LOL probably
My guess is they just ask the AI for a plot and it sifts through past SF shows to generate ideas that are amalgams of existing stories.
Michael Burnham is their favourite character. If they don't want to her admit and address her crimes, then they won't write that in the script. I kinda want to know how far she would have gone in TNG DS9 or even Voyager. She'd be sent down to Ensign longer than Ensign Kim was and Ensign. 😂
Burnham in TNG would be like alternate Barkley - if Broccoli never stopped his addictive nature in the holodeck -- Old Man
I'd like to agree, but Janeway made Chakotay, a rebel traitor, her second in command, so maybe it's possible she forgives Michael and allows her to gain rank like anyone else. And we all know Burnham is a master puzzle solver, so she would have been at least Lt. Commander by the time Voyager got home. LOL>
You had me for a minute with Burnham supposedly admitting her guilt about her previous actions. I should've known that this show wasn't capable of that type of quality writing.
I just said what so many of us have been waiting five seasons to hear. It's a shame the writers won't let her say it. It wouldn't fix the show, but it would make a HUGE difference. -Mollie
Ha, you had me in the description when Burnham was talking the wrongs she did with the Klingon war.
Michael Burnham is afraid of not being a good-enough friend. I wonder why.
Is it because she betrayed Philippa Georgiou (her captain, her mentor, and her mother-figure) when she neck-pinched the captain into unconsciousness and mutinied against her?
Is it because she lied to Saru, her captain, and then secretly disobeyed his direct order, forcing him (when he found out) to demote her because he could no longer trust her?
Is it because she betrayed Paul Stamets (who had sacrificed a great deal for her) by knocking him out, forcibly confining him, and launching him out into space in a pod over which he had no control (in space threatened by the Emerald Chain)?
For someone to be Michael Burnham’s friend, they must prepare to receive her knife in their back.
Even her enemies get it in the back (T'kuvma) -- Old Man
What is even worse about the Library scene is that in Babylon 5 Lorien is basically a Progenitor. THE Progenitor.
The number one thing the producers of Discovery are trying to do this entire season is to show us a strong women black captain. Listen, they utterly FAILED. Captain Sisko is and was the PERFECT representation of a proper captain and is truly one of the best captains Star Trek has. Siako was perfection, showing us strength and a classic liberal representation of a character in a universe that does not see color and embrases diversity. What they gave us is a woke millinial todler version in Burnham that in my opnion has like most modern woke version, shoving in down our throat as much as possible (hell, was it last episode that she proudly proclaimed to our faces something like "ITS BLACK") has set back the bar and is going to need to be repaired in future Star Treks once someone sets strait whatever the "F" is going on in these producers head today. The fact is that due to this absolute failure and extreeme woke culture, they cannot show her being a failure in any way, she has to be the perfect "Mary Sue".
If you take away the Star Trek universe from the show, it's about a woman and her boyfriend hanging out together in every episode. Their friends, whom we know nothing about, cheer them on and add nothing to the plot.
Women and her girlfriend
Btw love how having a spore drive only gains you about 5 or 6 hours in any direction travel time these days, who knew the galaxy was so small !
To be fair, they're hunting clues hidden by TNG-era scientists within the distances they could travel at that time.
But the whole "missed their target by six hours and now they're dead in the water" thing was just way too convenient and was done just to create a race to the finish line.
@@claytonrumley What a "Rat Race". "It's a "Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" -- Old Man
@@mollieandtheoldman
"It's a "Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World"
That's it!!! It's under a big W. Now all we need to do is find a big W. 🥸
Apparently every intelligent species ever writes Humanoid books, even if they don't have eyes and appendages or access to what looks like paper..
Giving the assembled clues to the Breen is dumb what happens when you get to the final location and you find the assembled clues are the "key" to open a final lock on the tech
After getting through the plasma storms The Navigator describes the episode and this series with two words ,.. "Holy Shit ."
Even humans don't write humanoid books; look at quipu for example.
Always appreciative how you point out the STD scenes and old shows where STD took "inspiration" from: Star Gate and Babylon. Thank you! Definitely agree that the language and mannerisms of some of the characters were horrible and very California. My conclusion is that the actors are not acting, they're just portraying themselves in some of these scenes. I also watched the 7th Rule post on this episode and they had two of the writers on their show...interesting input on the thought process behind this episode, but not surprising.
This is an interesting comment and it permeates in comic book media currently as well with many of the new writers. I’ve heard many writers for movies and comics say they want to “bring Superman down to earth to our level” so we can identify with him” Why?
There was a study Lego did between how boys/girls play. Controversial of course…but in playing the boys wanted “to be” Batman but the girls would take Batman or another character and would make that character “act/be like them”. Maybe that’s why you notice this in the acting of the show. I dunno balance of the writing room but reading other comments and how if a female character leaves or promoted she’s replaced by another female.Just a thought or two.
@@chrischreative2245 I like your observations and thanks for pointing out the Lego study, I’ll have to read it.
In 2023, Mollie and the Old Man produced a very thought-provoking video titled, "Are We Watching Episodes Written By AI? Mollie Tries Out ChatGPT". Both the video and the comment section are equally intriguing: I highly recommend them.
[I was reminded of that by some comments in this section.]
Actually, Rhys is in the show since S1, starting as a Lieutenant; the first time his name was spoken on screen was in 1x05 “Choose Your Pain” (23:57). But I don’t fault you for forgetting him, he was never that interesting, although his name was spoken 71 times across all seasons.
(Yeah, subtitle files are a blessing)
my God Hats off to you being able to watch this! The earlier sessions really put me off of it.
This has probably been said, but I just realized Moll is short for Mollie. LOL. Don't ban me.
LOL! Her full name is Malinne Ravel. She's Moll for short. Still annoying though. -Mollie 🤣
This really does feel like they have a ChatGPT trained on scripts and stories from other sci-fi properties and it just mashes up whatever and craps out nonsense, the actors read what's on the page and everyone pats themselves on the back. This one felt a lot like the season 1 finale of The Librarians.
My thoughts while watching:
- Moll waited for the funeral to tell them she can raise the dead and restore the Scion? Seems like that would have come up earlier in conversation. I guess she could have been waiting to announce it publicly (to prevent him from outright executing her), but some explanation of that would have made for a better episode.
- I bet a few other people have loved ones they'd want to revive and might look to getting their hands on that tech themselves.
- The Badlands don't look quite the same as DS9 & the Voyager pilot....they seem less colourful and there are no plasma vortexes. Just orange clouds.
- Why does this librarian woman sound like she's giving a sales pitch complete with a disclaimer? She doesn't sound alien at all.
- I totally forgot Discovery has a cloak now. They never use it.
- How do the Breen know where Discovery is? Was Moll shown the last clue?
- This feels like an episode of the Librarians.
- Was Burnham going to read or scan the text of the book? Often these clues have a few components in the environment that aren't obvious.
- Why does the librarian know his nickname is "Book"? She called him Mr. Booker right before now. Assuming she's an alien speaking an alien language via the universal translator, why would she be able to make wordplay between "Booker" (a proper name) and whatever her word for book is?
- If the librarians didn't know what the root was, why would they move it to a place of honour? It could be Kweijan animal excrement.
- How did Burnham come to the "this isn't real" conclusion within a few seconds? Based on Book's clothing?
- Culber seems to know everything about this device plus is able to jump to the conclusion that it isn't capable of multiple connections.
- Why is nobody attempting to translate the book that the device was hidden in? (afternote: Raynor eventually looks at it)
- I was going to complain about how quickly the Breen got there using conventional warp, but presumably Breen space is fairly close to the badlands given the events of DS9.
- The Breen can track spore drive jump signatures?
- Moll's plan to steal Discovery's clues to complete the key doesn't make any sense. Discovery can jump away to anywhere in the galaxy and hide the pieces. Or just outright destroy them.
- The mind-Book lied. He said Burnham didn't ask him if she was on the right track but she specifically asked if History was the right area of the library to check and he simply didn't answer her.
- The "correct" conclusions Burnham keeps reaching seem implausibly arrived at.
- So the TNG-era librarian read "A Comprehensive Guide to Talaxian Hair Styles"? I guess Voyager brought back a copy of Neelix's cultural database because that'd be the only Talaxian they'd have any data from at that time.
- How is Book going to help with defenses in an unfamiliar alien library? Oh, run around the halls and act as a target.
- How does Burnham have access to Tricorder holodata in a mental labyrinth?
- Why is Discovery calling Raynor? Won't the Breen be able to triangulate their position?
- Burnham's lack of self-identity just seems so faked. Who has she ever had to prove anything to? Everyone constantly blows rainbows up her butt about how wonderful she is.
- The Breen use base-duodeca coding? As in base-12? Humans use base-10 (decimal) but for data everything is ultimately stored in base-2 (binary). Even TNG-era computers still stored and transmitted data in a binary format. Not sure what about a different number base makes it harder to hack.
- A library, a labyrinth, lights going out...reminds me a lot of Season 1, Episode 10 of The Librarians ("...And the Loom of Fate").
- I sort of wish addressing her mutiny and kicking off a major war would be something about herself that she had to address. But no, it's just her imposter syndrome. Yawn.
- This whole mind-labyrinth thing is pretty sophisticated tech for TNG-era scientists.
- Why would Burnham lead the away team to the final clue without a weapon? Rainer should have lead or at least armed her.
- I guess those Breen on board have no issue destroying their culture's artifacts when they opened fire.
- Good thing the Breen weapons don't damage the spore drive....oh I was wrong.
- Ah, how convenient...off target and no warp drive. A guaranteed race to the finish line.
- The Primarch should just kill Moll before she sows any more seeds of dissension amongst his crew....oops too late...he's dead.
- Too bad a warrior race with magic weapons wouldn't have security measures that prevent their weapons from being used by unauthorized personnel.
Discovery writers actually knowing anything about other sci-fi shows is giving them too much credit. I think the AI is pulling from other science fiction series and the Discovery people are just lapping it up with zero understanding of what the AI coughed up.
I think you're right.
They had to have a library because National Treasure has a library scene (President's book where the clue was a photo in between pages). This seems like an AI generated plot based on National Treasure with a sci-fi setting. I wish Burnham really said what Molly stated in the synopsis, that would have been more original. "Who are you?" "I'm Michael Burnham!" "No, that is your name, who are you?" heh I loved all that philosophy in B5 "We created the world we think you would have wished for us, and now we leave the cradle for the last time" .
Yeah, it sure seems like it's heading towards Book getting his planet back, which seems well beyond the capabilities that the Progenitors appeared to possess in TNG, but whatever, at least they're not SPACE BABIES!
I felt this way last season and I feel it this season: this show is little more than a vehicle Cole for Sonequa Martin Green’s personal ego at this point. She’s a producer. She has creative input.
I think it's a huge mistake to let actors make writing decisions. There are very few examples where this has turned out well. -Mollie
@@mollieandtheoldman The first Two seasons of Picard are a brutal example of it not turning out well.
Rhys has been with the show from the first season, but all he ever used to say was, "There is no response." This demonstrates how phoney the show's DEI policy is: the show has failed so badly at developing his character, he might as well be a piece of furniture (until this episode).
Uhura has more lines, more screentime, and more purpose than Rhys.
Rhy's is the meme that will never be.
And the thing is, the actor is actually quite charming. He’s no Olivier but he’s a reliable screen presence in other things I’ve seen him in.
"Everybody is a Commander."
In the 32nd Century, anyone will be able to just walk into a Starfleet office and say, "I self-identify as a Starfleet Commander," and WHOOSH there's your Starfleet commission right there.
I used to joke about Ensign Kim in Voyager being "the Perpetual Ensign" but "everybody's a commander" is WAY worse!
Maybe Admiral Oprah is head of Starfleet Academy - "you get a Commander rank, you get a Commander rank and you get a commander rank" -- Old Man
@@mollieandtheoldman 🤣🤣🤣 sounds about right
Not only is everyone a commander, but all the substitutions for the bridge crew this season are the same gender as their predecessor.
@@mikeharvey6460 if EVERYBODY is a Commander, NOBODY is a Commander (leaving aside the Lt. Cmdr. rank).
I absolutely love how over this you sound from the get go 🤣🤣🤣
The Library reminds me of the library from last airbender
Before her Lois Lane role on Smallville, Erica Durance starred in a Season 4 episode of Andromeda where Dylan Hunt also went to a library.
There were bad guys there too, but it's been so long since I saw the episode that I honestly couldn't say how similar it was to this trash.
Babylon 5 is my favourite TV series and I like how often you reference it because it's good quality Sci-Fi.
You said something about a long video, but you have such refreshingly honest and informative opinions about the stuff you review that
even a two hour video would still be entertaining.
Thanks for another cool video...! 👍🏻
Babylon 5 is one of our favorites as well. We worry if JMS gets his reboot what might happen. But we'd still like to see it. Maybe he'll surprise us?
We're not sure how well the YT algorithm rewards long form but we like to talk things out so we tend to deliver longer videos. Good to hear that this works for you -- Old Man
@@mollieandtheoldman I'm also a little worried about the B5 reboot. I don't know which side JMS leans to politically, but we know who's been destroying our beloved media the last few years and we know that JMS didn't get along with Jerry Doyle (Garibaldi) who was a known right wing radio host. I hope I'm wrong, but we'll find out in due time I guess.
The problem is with some of JMS' original ideas. The Minbari were supposed to be an androgynous race (or male, I forget which one was decided). So, in 1992, Delenn turning part human and thus female would be something different and a cool concept to explore. In 2024, I don't know how you pull that off w/o current day politics taking sides in a cultural war. Yes, it was in the original idea (and technology wasn't ready yet to make it happen in 1992), but it's 2024 and that sort of topic NOW is a powder keg -- Old Man
@@mollieandtheoldman Yeah, if that had been done then I think it would have been interesting as you say. We can accept people that are different from ourselves and co-exist with them, but the problem is that nowadays that's not enough it has to be forced down our throats. 🤷🏻♂
magic root? OMG Discovery is ripping off Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors! (a DiC cartoon from like 1985)
Can you make a character that is so strong and perfect that she can solve all her problems and work through them?
Can God make a boulder that is so large he cannot lift it?
This is essentially the problem they are having with Burnham. They want her to be perfect and be able to learn from her mistakes, but they made her perfect with what they feel are no mistakes. And so she has to apologize but be vague in doing so because she can't admit that she has done anything wrong.
On top of this, she even lies about her relationship with Book. She didn't just push him away because she felt afraid. She pushed him away because he was a traitor that attacked the Federation and 10-C - an alien species with innocent intentions. t
The season is nothing but lies.
Also, the very fact that the Breen are being able to get to the tech proves that the entire effort to hide the technology with clues and tests failed. The Breen has not passed a single test. And yet they are closing in on the technology because Burnham is leading them there. It is completely and utterly ridiculous.
They have been trying all season to re-write Burnham's character. So, they must know that they messed up with the character but have no ability to fix it other than to try to - look over there and retcon it. -- Old Man
@@mollieandtheoldman
I wish Alex Kurtzman would not be afraid to admit his failure!
You can’t make a black female character that has any flaws. I’m a black male so I can say that. Also this reflects real life in dealing with black women so there’s no room for character studies and growth so writers are in a small box.
"Can you make a character that is so strong and perfect that she can solve all her problems and work through them? "
Sure. You just make all the problems really easy for the character to solve, and have everyone praise her to the moon for solving them. It's like giving a child a participation award and acting like it's a Nobel prize because you want to boost their ego. It makes for a crappy drama, because there is no reason to get emotionally involved. Also makes for a child with entitlement issues.
As for Book -- what does it say about Burnham when her best friends and lovers are all criminals (Tyler, Book, Georgiou) and she is a criminal? How I miss when Starfleet captains were people you could aspire to.
@@dramaticwords
I think the writers just want everything to be edgy. Let's have the first officer shoot her captain! They won't expect that. Let's have Burnham's boyfriend be a secret Klingon spy! They won't expect that.
I still want to know why Burnham went to the mirror universe and brought back Georgiou. I did not expect that. And then of course you put a genocidal maniac in the Federation because you hate the Federation I guess...
The continuous theme from SH, is...that women that murder gets a pass.
Sometimes men too. E.g. Tyler, Mudd.
@@dramaticwords But you gauge the murder rate in NuTrek, it favors the ladies more.
Looks like this was filmed at Robarts Library, University of Toronto, which is built in the god awful brutalist architectural style. It's basically a giant hunk of concrete
Hay what u know Book can act, ha that's a surprise 3 seasons later
They must have caught him on an off day.
Also I was going to say The Thaw or even older...the Seventh Seal
Mol is to Trek what Harley Quinn has become to DC.
Apparently it doesn't matter how many people you've hurt, without ever having to make amends you can be a good guy if you decide to be who you were for the other side. But unlike Harley who now hates the Joker, Mol would totally flip back to evil if her BF told her too... Unless she undergoes unseen character development and decides to be good and kill's her BF and takes all the power for herself after she's proved to the Klingo..- Sorry, Breen... what a good and effective leader she can be in her own right.
... I'm getting alot of STD Klingon storyline vibes from the Breen the further in we go and unlike the Klingons, there is not enough known about the Breen to call SH out except that certain DEI beats are mirroring previous seasons.
Get real, you can bring up Burnham's faults as much as you want to but she has no guilt over it and neither do the writers. By the way, where are the Klingons in this era, they are never mentioned.
Maybe Burnham, during that year with Book off camera, took care of the Klingon "problem" - Burnham style -- Old Man
I know that you are kidding but the Klingons were as important as the Romulans.@@mollieandtheoldman
That's the real problem. The writers are so unenlightened they don't realize Burnham is a highly flawed character -- more suited to be a villain than a hero.
Why would the Progenitors want someone like Michael Burnham to have their (probably outdated by now) technology? What special wisdom does she possess that no one else could have? None that I can see.
What's more, the Federation already had the Genesis device 900 years ago. It also created life from nothing. Why has this never come up in conversations?
@@stopgeorge Makes you think the Secret Hideout people never watched ST.
@@dramaticwords Well, we know from one interview that there is one writer that is the resident expert for canon. He said he binge-watched TOS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager before he was to start. He didn't get to finish Voyager, apparently. What's ironic is that they had the Genesis Device front and center on that secret laboratory facility on Picard Season 3.
@@stopgeorge I'm not sure you can binge watch something and be a canon expert. You don't retain a lot that way. Most serious ST canon people have watched every series multiple times over years.
@@dramaticwords No, of course not. They seem to think it's enough, though. I brought it up because it tells you a lot as to why Kurtzman Trek is so bad.
WWPD? WWKD? WWJD? I think Picard, Kirk, and Janeway would have just set the self destruct and said back off or we all die. When is the last time a Starfleet captain set the self destruct? Voyager?
Nobody has tested the Breen survival instinct. I seem to recall them knowing when the jig is up in the Dominion War, and when to call it quits.
How did Moll know where Discovery was going? The only possibility would be that Book told her, right? And why would Discovery immediately go to the Valley Girl Library if they knew that the Breen could follow them?
Did Book betray them again?
Allegedly, the Breen can track Discovery's jumps. The Breen are conveniently incompetent when they believe Discovery destroyed at the end of this episode, when all they have to do is follow the smell of burning mushrooms. -Mollie 🤣
@@mollieandtheoldman I laughed out loud when they had Discovery actually smoking after the jump. With the smoke plume streaming upwards I may add. (They have science advisors apparently)😂. Ok, if they can track them, then Burnham indirectly put the Valley Girl Library people directly at risk by doing this. And, because; Moll is 2 clues behind, there is no urgency to go there immediately.
Wait, is Book even his real name? I don't know anymore. I thought it was Moll's father's name or something. This show is too bad to really care.
His birth name is Tareckx, like his father. He took the name Cleveland Booker after Moll's father.
[He took his new name because the four previous Cleveland Bookers were considered trustworthy, and he wanted to follow their way. Somehow I am not surprised that he later became a criminal, thus failing to be trustworthy.]
@@user-ec5bo8tx4n That's what I thought. So I didn't misremember. I didn't remember his birth name, but I knew Book wasn't his name and that he got it from Moll's father.
But then again, he considers it his real name so I guess it is.
@@user-ec5bo8tx4n All I can think of is that it's a "Dread Pirate Roberts" situation. Probably where they ripped it off from.
@@claytonrumley Inconceivable!! -- Old Man
Ripping off Babylon 5 is a Star Trek tradition.
Assorted points in no order or relevance:
1: On dialect that actually makes more sense than you think if you look at what they have been doing with STDs setting.
the 32 century is supposed to represent a VERY post civil rights America where races have began to dissolve into the "melting pot". (Or what the "agenda" wants for society)
Logically accents, dialects and even entire languages will fall by the wayside is what the ideology supposes. The thought being as we can see in the setting is a LOT of hybrids interbred. Finding "purebloods" in starfleet would be exceedingly difficult. As those cultures assimilate into each other, they too would lose their original cultural identities.
2: As for Rhys (rice, even though they mispronounce it) has been there since the very begining. We understand that the original Disco bridge crew started off as extras they just stuck with, but he literally came with the ship. Honestly it was always unusual as hell to have ensigns on the bridge. The bridge SHOULD have almost exclusively commanders, cause a bridge is a command center of a ship. You want your best of the best there with all your LtJGs down in lower decks working their way up, Literally.
3: I think you are close on the world tree cuttings, but off just a little bit. Book will be presented with that opportunity to regrow his world, however if you notice that cutting looks like 2 separate ones and those cuttings are intertwined. Its basically going to come down to a point where Mol is dying in her quest to resurrect L`ak. With the combination of the progenitors tech and this cutting they use one to rez l`ak and book has to give up his world to save Mol, cause remember, she is "the closest thing I have to family" So I dont see Emperess Burnham being a part of that equation, but it still ends up being as predictable and hackneyed as you project it as.
4: as for theft, "There hasnt been an original idea since the ancient Greeks". We have all seen rehashes of old ideas in sci fi. Some make something better than what they took. STD's track record has been pitiful at times. It has gotten better, but its already hard coded into its DNA.
In fact, that idea of theft is what prompted me to take about a year of my life and rewatch the entirety of Star trek and do so as they aired. From The Man Trap up till what ever the newest episodes of STD/STP/LD were at the time of the end of the first season of The Orville. Cause the Orville, especially in its first season was a perfect demonstration that TO was always just trek + shit McFarlane found funny online. I found comparisons from each series of trek to tropes from Dr Who and even more modern takes like a rehash of the "social score" episode of PROPER black Mirror. Which is why I can forgive trek stealing from other sci fi. Nothing is original and how many times have things stolen from trek? The unacceptable thing is that if you steal you are expected to do something unique with your theft. STD and to a lesser extent SNW have stolen plenty, they rarely make it better or explore something different with it.
Look, Im a person more for end results. Yes its theft. Everyone steals in that industry. The entire industry is built on theft. So I dont mind trek stealing. Cause even when trek does steal and even when its a bad theft... Its still trek and even the worst trek is still better than the curse of Moonves we endured and having no trek at all.
5 Or 4.5 if you will: This season IS the best season of STD. I think they hAVE learned their lesson of what doesnt work and how much the audience is going to tolerate agendaism in the show. They seem to have found the limit of the audience and this season is trying its damnest to show you its going to respect that current threshhold (pun definitely intended) of bullshit being forced on the audience. Not for STDs sake but trying to assure you that Academy is something we will want to follow. I think for the most part if they can keep themselves in check to at least this level or less of the failed STD agendaism, it will make Academy at least viable. On par with where they have SNW sitting right now.
EDIT: 6: It didnt feel like trek. It felt more like trek X The magicians. Its not just the library either. Narratively and the way it is acted as a whole. Specifically unfortunately wordy scenes with Stella Maeve vibe
I did not know that they made 5 seasons of this. I stopped watching at season 3 episode 3. (and I skipped parts of the episodes, I did not even fully watch the last few episodes of season 2) Its too bad. I normaly like Star Trek enough to rewatch series a lot. I think I watched Enterprise twice or maybe even 3 times? TNG, Voyager and DS9 all 5 times for sure. I am not a huge fan of TOS because its age, but still, maybe 3 times? I even saw Strange New Worlds twice allready. I also like Lower decks. But STD I will never touch again. Maybe I will try to watch one episode of season 4 and 5 just to confirm that it is still this bad? But why? This video tells me everything I need to know.
😊
Like OMG. How could younlike, whatever, whatever, so toats hate like the Librarian? And besides? Libraries areole ong dead? Ohmigawddddddd
Like...gag me with a, like, phaser? As if!!! -- Old Man
This show is such trash trek is dead
You nick pick the episode and don’t bother to look up the actors for the critique. That seems a bit lazy and disingenuous.
"You nick pick the episode..."
We only need to know people named Nick based on that well thought out critique that you made yourself -- Old Man
I'm surprised they didn't drag Mr. Atoz into this and make it Mrs. Atoz. They do love to pilfer from TOS.
They haven't watched that TOS episode yet.