@@youdy3000 the mortar is two hard, as result you will get water going back into the build (behind the mortar), and any moisture in the house, won't be able to evaporate through the mortar, and instead will travel through the stone. Then when it freezes, the stone will crack. Also, the cement based mortar will not allow for normal movement in the wall during the seasons, so you will get cracks eventually. Cement based mortar on a soft brick house is also deadly for a property, it is the quickest way to cause damp issues and destroy the brickwork.
Been bricklaying since 16 now 60 and mostly new work,but not exclusively, have used lime in mortars on several jobs that we worked on for example the portals on crick tunnel on the grand Union canal and work inside the tunnel itself ,same at Braunstone tunnel portal,also took down and rebuilt dressed stone wall on an old cemetery again rebuilt using hydraulic lime mortar, On a slightly different note i always enjoy listening to this guy, knowledgeable and humble ,top man
Spot on mate i did the same they gave us lime to plaster with in Germany because the had clay blocks that was in 19 91 been using all types of lime premix and nhl as long as its lime love it
good to see someone get pretty spot on with when talking about lime mortars. i spent a couple days with Dr Gerard Lynch being taught about lime mortars, I'm not an expert by any means but I have been taught how to use them correctly! one of the old boys on site was quizzing me on lime mortars after I done my course, he was trying to catch me out and I ended up catching him out, he stopped bothering me after that haha. Im only 22 so I dont go around telling people how to do their work, I just keep it under my hat
Great video cutting through all the waffle out there. Any suggestions for which mortar for re-pointing a stone cellar wall? Front (external) wall is a bit damp but not trying to 'hold the damp back' as such, since it's got earth on the other side - just fix it up. My thoughts are NHL 2 or 3.5?
Agree Andy - absolute mine field. I need to educate myself though by experts who know their field. Will hopefully be doing a Dr Gerard Lynch course soon.
This is a great video. Thanks. What is your opinion on ready mix lime mortar products like conserv? They are obviously pricey than buying lime and mixing it yourself, but they are easier for folk like me who only need to do a bit of pointing and don't have a cement mixer
Cracking info .. I've always been a site brickie ..but struggling with my back now and going into pointing.. done a bit with NHL .. but always finished with a churn brush finish .. but got a customer who wants weather struck with NHL 3.5 ..does it still cure the same this way ..and still wick up moisture..going use a 3.1 mix with washed plastering sand ...many thanks if you get back to me
My view on it is when they originally built the houses and structures from lime mortar they almost certainly used whatever was locally available and they didn’t have all the pseudo science and fashion to back it up. They just used what they had and what worked so I think we should probably do the same but instead we seem to over-complicate almost everything these days. I use NHL 3.5 and sand from the local quarry and that’s it. Works for me.
Very informative Andy! can I Ask a question? I have an early 1900s house. Built with lime mortar originally. Trying to get rid of all the sand cement repointing due to damp issues. I like the look of weather struck pointing. What ratios due you use or recommend for such a job? would adding soft sand rather than using a fully sharp sand mix be less durable strong? love to know your thoughts❤
OK. It is impossible to achieve the desired affect of Weatherstruck using grit sand. I use soft building sand or a mix of that and plastering sand, you need to do test panels of different mixes until you achieve the desired finish but soft sand is fine. I use a mix of 3 sand to 1 NHL 3.5. A lot of these so called Lime experts are just Wizards and Sorcerers and say it has to be angular grit sand or it doesn't bond. Rubbish i am currently working on a 1892 build and it is pointed Weatherstruck lime with soft sand and it's good as the day it was done.👍
@@bricklayersworldwithandy6277 Totally agree with you there andy. the "Limies" are like the masons! Thanks so much for you help. Your a Proper Geezer! ❤️
I've used NHL 3.5 with PFA pulverised fine ash and sharp sand but we never did any fine work with it. The PFA dose make a difference it seems to set better especially if you are building with it. That's my 2p's worth haha
Hi, I’ve got an 1870’s place to replace 16 bricks on a gable. It’s lime but repointed with sand/cement. The building is 100’ long and only happened on that one gable. Bricks are separately spread around gable randomly. Would I be best laying the bricks with a lime mortar and later matching weather struck later with sand/ cement or would I get away with s/c for the whole mortar? 9” bond. Cheers
@@bricklayersworldwithandy6277 Thanks. Ideally yes but I’ve allowed a day on it. I’d be there months. It’s 6 properties in one building and no problem anywhere else. Just wondered what’s be the best ‘bodge’ kinda thing
@@t-rex4211 To be honest if the pointing isn't being replaced it probably dosent matter what you use but if it makes you feel better replace them in Lime.
@@bricklayersworldwithandy6277 Ooofff well now I’m torn 😉 Ok, many thanks. I’ll go with lime then if any problems occur later at least I can say I’ve matched existing 👍
Try TY MAWR lime experts i pointed my 200 yr old stone house using there products. Bloody hard work removing all the cement crap but looks fantastic now
Hydrated lime (calcium hydroxide) will harden when it reacts with carbon dioxide in the air to form calcium carbonate (limestone essentially). This carbonation process takes a few weeks/months depending on the thickness. I made up some mortar samples with hardware store hydrated lime powder and tested them every few days by breaking them open and spraying them with a jet of water from the garden hose. As soon as they dry out the form a crust on the surface which is enough to withstand rain or light spraying. After a week I cracked one sample in half and sprayed water at the newly exposed edge, and I could quite clearly see the uncarbonated mortar get washed away while the carbonated skin remained. Every few days I exposed a fresh edge and repeated the tests and the hardened outer skin got thicker until it was carbonated to the core. Of course you'll get a better product if you use quicklime and do a hot mix, but bagged dry hydrated lime isn't totally useless.
Almost everything in the U.S is "hydrated lime" which is NOT the same as NHL. It's just crap you mix with cement. "Hydrated" would never be used on, say, a castle or historic building.
Traditional lime was lime chalk with a bag of horse hair per m2 never used sand. Remember when i was 13 my dad was on a lime job and it was lime and sand and was giving 3 bags of synthetic fibres to do a whole house and it probably the case across the bored even the use of lime and lime repairs wont last anywhere near as long as it did. Its also the same with paints hardly any use of linseed paints and limewash these days and even linseed paints aren't as good without lead in them they use zinc as a replacement and its no way near as good modern linseed paints can suffer with terrible mould growth without lead in them. sand cement etc came out I would imagine to make jobs much cheaper and less time consuming. I think if we stuck to Traditional methods there wouldn't be half the work about or half the firms.
Nhl 3.5 is to strong for pointing, theres hardly any wick effect, 2.5 is strong enough, i think most people use 3.5 because it goes off quick like cement and easier to finish.
@@bricklayersworldwithandy6277 It doesn't really matter as you're going to add water anyhow to use it. It comes in a bucket with water covering the putty to stop it from drying out, you can decant this off. One thing which is important to know when mixing either lime putty or your own made hotlime is the ratio of sand to lime, it's easy to get that wrong.
You make a fair point regarding fads.. but you have it the wrong way around. NHL’s are the fad (put politely, could argue scam). Quicklime mortars (hot lime) are the way it was done historically, and is still being done around the world. A few individuals with a vested interest and no clue pushed NHL in the 90’s and 2000’s until it caught on. Plenty of evidence suggesting NHLs are no better than cement, plenty of ruined buildings, plenty of heritage organisations banning them in England and Scotland for good reason. Be careful and do your research
I agree with what you say about hot limes being the traditional method, i would say pre cement days there wasnt the technology to manufacture NHL in any viable amounts.I still have never seen any evidence of NHL being detrimental other than Lime Druids scaremongering.
@@bricklayersworldwithandy6277 There is a lot of utter rubbish on the 'net about hotlime, plenty in the post above and quite a lot in a certain book too. It takes a long time and a lot of research to sift through it all to find the truth. I've been pointing with lime for 20yrs now, the first house I did was built from soft stone and had been re-pointed in cement at one time, the whole wall face was loose and crumbling and had to be scutched off before we pointed it with NHL 3.5 mixed 3:1. I was passing by it the other day so called in for a look, it's as good now as it was when we did it 20 yrs ago. That is absolute proof that in some cases lime is the better material to use, but also that it didn't need hotlime.
In 1985 I pointed my old stone house using portland cement. It was a big mistake, but I knew no better. I am now redoing the whole thing using nhl2.
what went wrong with the house with sand and cement ?
@@youdy3000 the mortar is two hard, as result you will get water going back into the build (behind the mortar), and any moisture in the house, won't be able to evaporate through the mortar, and instead will travel through the stone. Then when it freezes, the stone will crack. Also, the cement based mortar will not allow for normal movement in the wall during the seasons, so you will get cracks eventually. Cement based mortar on a soft brick house is also deadly for a property, it is the quickest way to cause damp issues and destroy the brickwork.
Good straightforward info. Thanks.
Been bricklaying since 16 now 60 and mostly new work,but not exclusively, have used lime in mortars on several jobs that we worked on for example the portals on crick tunnel on the grand Union canal and work inside the tunnel itself ,same at Braunstone tunnel portal,also took down and rebuilt dressed stone wall on an old cemetery again rebuilt using hydraulic lime mortar,
On a slightly different note i always enjoy listening to this guy, knowledgeable and humble ,top man
Type S. The magnesium Cal type right, thats what makes it have properties dif from non Hy or pure CA0
Interesting stuff, glad I stumbled across this video before reading into everything further.
Spot on mate i did the same they gave us lime to plaster with in Germany because the had clay blocks that was in 19 91 been using all types of lime premix and nhl as long as its lime love it
Good on you mate and thanks for the honest advice. Melbourne Brickie
good to see someone get pretty spot on with when talking about lime mortars.
i spent a couple days with Dr Gerard Lynch being taught about lime mortars, I'm not an expert by any means but I have been taught how to use them correctly!
one of the old boys on site was quizzing me on lime mortars after I done my course, he was trying to catch me out and I ended up catching him out, he stopped bothering me after that haha.
Im only 22 so I dont go around telling people how to do their work, I just keep it under my hat
Nice one, there is a lot to know and opinions are always changing, unfortunately a lot of so called Lime experts don't share there knowledge👍
Can I ask @Harry Warren what you thought of the course?
Thinking about doing the lime mortar/pointing course with Gerard Lynch
Great video cutting through all the waffle out there. Any suggestions for which mortar for re-pointing a stone cellar wall? Front (external) wall is a bit damp but not trying to 'hold the damp back' as such, since it's got earth on the other side - just fix it up. My thoughts are NHL 2 or 3.5?
That's what I would use though ime no expert on stone, the strength would have to be relative to the stone.
Agree Andy - absolute mine field.
I need to educate myself though by experts who know their field.
Will hopefully be doing a Dr Gerard Lynch course soon.
3.5 most common 1 or 5 nowadays. Otterbein German company a think does this. Loves these we videos
Thank-you!
This is a great video. Thanks. What is your opinion on ready mix lime mortar products like conserv? They are obviously pricey than buying lime and mixing it yourself, but they are easier for folk like me who only need to do a bit of pointing and don't have a cement mixer
I think they are good products.
Good sound views as always
Well said.
Cracking info .. I've always been a site brickie ..but struggling with my back now and going into pointing.. done a bit with NHL .. but always finished with a churn brush finish .. but got a customer who wants weather struck with NHL 3.5 ..does it still cure the same this way ..and still wick up moisture..going use a 3.1 mix with washed plastering sand ...many thanks if you get back to me
Same crack really mate, if you go back a while on my channel I have done a video on it👍
@@bricklayersworldwithandy6277 cheers will check it out thanks 👍🏻
My view on it is when they originally built the houses and structures from lime mortar they almost certainly used whatever was locally available and they didn’t have all the pseudo science and fashion to back it up. They just used what they had and what worked so I think we should probably do the same but instead we seem to over-complicate almost everything these days. I use NHL 3.5 and sand from the local quarry and that’s it. Works for me.
Totally agree👍
Very informative Andy! can I Ask a question? I have an early 1900s house. Built with lime mortar originally. Trying to get rid of all the sand cement repointing due to damp issues. I like the look of weather struck pointing. What ratios due you use or recommend for such a job? would adding soft sand rather than using a fully sharp sand mix be less durable strong? love to know your thoughts❤
OK. It is impossible to achieve the desired affect of Weatherstruck using grit sand. I use soft building sand or a mix of that and plastering sand, you need to do test panels of different mixes until you achieve the desired finish but soft sand is fine. I use a mix of 3 sand to 1 NHL 3.5. A lot of these so called Lime experts are just Wizards and Sorcerers and say it has to be angular grit sand or it doesn't bond. Rubbish i am currently working on a 1892 build and it is pointed Weatherstruck lime with soft sand and it's good as the day it was done.👍
@@bricklayersworldwithandy6277 Totally agree with you there andy. the "Limies" are like the masons! Thanks so much for you help. Your a Proper Geezer! ❤️
@@skatergirl7663 👍
I've used NHL 3.5 with PFA pulverised fine ash and sharp sand but we never did any fine work with it. The PFA dose make a difference it seems to set better especially if you are building with it. That's my 2p's worth haha
whats pfa
@@dugbert9 pulverised fuel ash give it a Google
@@dugbert9 read it again /!\ ;)
@@dugbert9 lol pulverised fine ash
What are your thoughts on using Quicklime “Hot Lime” for repointing fieldstone foundation? I have a 1900 house
Ive never used it but its becoming popular, those who use it say its the best product.
Is it really worth the risk of "getting it on you" when there are other options?
Hi there. I have a bungaroosh wall that needs making good. Would you use Putty over nhl for this?
I have no experience with it but it's binder is hydraulic lime so I would assume NHL. I believe they are very difficult to repair.
@@judythomas2939 Natural
@@judythomas2939 5 is strong 2 is weak, 3.5 is most commonly used.
Hi, I’ve got an 1870’s place to replace 16 bricks on a gable. It’s lime but repointed with sand/cement. The building is 100’ long and only happened on that one gable. Bricks are separately spread around gable randomly. Would I be best laying the bricks with a lime mortar and later matching weather struck later with sand/ cement or would I get away with s/c for the whole mortar? 9” bond. Cheers
I would get rid of all the sand and cement pointing and repoint in Lime.
@@bricklayersworldwithandy6277 Thanks. Ideally yes but I’ve allowed a day on it. I’d be there months. It’s 6 properties in one building and no problem anywhere else. Just wondered what’s be the best ‘bodge’ kinda thing
@@t-rex4211 To be honest if the pointing isn't being replaced it probably dosent matter what you use but if it makes you feel better replace them in Lime.
@@bricklayersworldwithandy6277 Ooofff well now I’m torn 😉 Ok, many thanks. I’ll go with lime then if any problems occur later at least I can say I’ve matched existing 👍
@@t-rex4211 👍
Plenty of RUclips videos...Michael James....Worth watching
👍
I think sir you should watch Nigel Copsey's demonstrations or read his book about hot lime mixes. It's great
I will, things have moved on since i made that video, more people are asking for it 👍
@@bricklayersworldwithandy6277 hH hhgHe hhjn mbccfv fh He is very critical of NHL, your knowledge seems outdated, you should listen to him
Copsey is a bulshitter, I wouldn't believe half of what he says.
@@lksf9820 after your comment I completely stopped believe him
@@lksf9820 based on what?
Try TY MAWR lime experts i pointed my 200 yr old stone house using there products. Bloody hard work removing all the cement crap but looks fantastic now
Yea they are a good company 👍
Lime mortar was used by the Romans...that's how good they were
Aint there difference in hydrolic and hydrated lime with hydrated needing portland cement to make it go off properly
Hydrated is basically a plasticiser for sand and cement mixes, it has other uses but not many.
Hydrated lime (calcium hydroxide) will harden when it reacts with carbon dioxide in the air to form calcium carbonate (limestone essentially). This carbonation process takes a few weeks/months depending on the thickness.
I made up some mortar samples with hardware store hydrated lime powder and tested them every few days by breaking them open and spraying them with a jet of water from the garden hose. As soon as they dry out the form a crust on the surface which is enough to withstand rain or light spraying. After a week I cracked one sample in half and sprayed water at the newly exposed edge, and I could quite clearly see the uncarbonated mortar get washed away while the carbonated skin remained. Every few days I exposed a fresh edge and repeated the tests and the hardened outer skin got thicker until it was carbonated to the core.
Of course you'll get a better product if you use quicklime and do a hot mix, but bagged dry hydrated lime isn't totally useless.
@@bhartley1024 True, i rendererd a small wall in Hydrated 20 years ago, still there now 👍
Almost everything in the U.S is "hydrated lime" which is NOT the same as NHL. It's just crap you mix with cement. "Hydrated" would never be used on, say, a castle or historic building.
No but i have made putty from Hydrated and it worked fine, try Googling it i have seen vids on it.
Traditional lime was lime chalk with a bag of horse hair per m2 never used sand. Remember when i was 13 my dad was on a lime job and it was lime and sand and was giving 3 bags of synthetic fibres to do a whole house and it probably the case across the bored even the use of lime and lime repairs wont last anywhere near as long as it did. Its also the same with paints hardly any use of linseed paints and limewash these days and even linseed paints aren't as good without lead in them they use zinc as a replacement and its no way near as good modern linseed paints can suffer with terrible mould growth without lead in them. sand cement etc came out I would imagine to make jobs much cheaper and less time consuming. I think if we stuck to Traditional methods there wouldn't be half the work about or half the firms.
Unfortunately modern methods are quicker and easier, i much prefer the older methods.
Nhl 3.5 is to strong for pointing, theres hardly any wick effect, 2.5 is strong enough, i think most people use 3.5 because it goes off quick like cement and easier to finish.
Lime putty is hotlime, they aren't different things.
I understand that but matured lime putty can contain a lot of water whereas hotlime created on site dosent i believe
@@bricklayersworldwithandy6277 Does it matter?
@@lksf9820 I believe so as the water content can affect the strength of the mix.
@@bricklayersworldwithandy6277 It doesn't really matter as you're going to add water anyhow to use it. It comes in a bucket with water covering the putty to stop it from drying out, you can decant this off. One thing which is important to know when mixing either lime putty or your own made hotlime is the ratio of sand to lime, it's easy to get that wrong.
You make a fair point regarding fads.. but you have it the wrong way around. NHL’s are the fad (put politely, could argue scam). Quicklime mortars (hot lime) are the way it was done historically, and is still being done around the world. A few individuals with a vested interest and no clue pushed NHL in the 90’s and 2000’s until it caught on. Plenty of evidence suggesting NHLs are no better than cement, plenty of ruined buildings, plenty of heritage organisations banning them in England and Scotland for good reason. Be careful and do your research
I agree with what you say about hot limes being the traditional method, i would say pre cement days there wasnt the technology to manufacture NHL in any viable amounts.I still have never seen any evidence of NHL being detrimental other than Lime Druids scaremongering.
@@bricklayersworldwithandy6277 There is a lot of utter rubbish on the 'net about hotlime, plenty in the post above and quite a lot in a certain book too. It takes a long time and a lot of research to sift through it all to find the truth.
I've been pointing with lime for 20yrs now, the first house I did was built from soft stone and had been re-pointed in cement at one time, the whole wall face was loose and crumbling and had to be scutched off before we pointed it with NHL 3.5 mixed 3:1.
I was passing by it the other day so called in for a look, it's as good now as it was when we did it 20 yrs ago. That is absolute proof that in some cases lime is the better material to use, but also that it didn't need hotlime.
NHL contains a high content of cement
Lime putty contains a high content of Lime
No cement in NHL