Own a Quieter3C. This video helped me a lot. I bought the exact same heat sink and everything works as expected. My Quieter3C is way cooler now and the heat sink is in the hot seat!!! Thanks "Patriot Astro".
Great idea 💡 I use the heatsink with great results. Adding a small set of 2 usb 40mm fans epoxied to the side of the heatsink resulted in a extra reduction of 15C, handy for those solar imaging days in Florida.
Great video! I bought a similar heatsink and used thermal conductive tape to stick it to the Quieter3Q. I then used two plastic coated wire ties to secure it even more, and hopefully keep it from slipping. Mine is mounted to a tripod leg. BTW, I do not believe that these need to be kept flat: 1- It comes with a VESA bracket, 2- I did not notice any temperature differences related to orientation during my testing.
I bought the beelink u59 because it has a fan, so no temp worries. I run atp, phd2, stellarium, pixinsight, deepsky stacker and others at the same time, no problems. I even do 50 frame stacks in dds while imaging and its done quickly, with temps in the 70s. I use ithrottle to keep the cpu a full speed of 2.9hz. The mini pc is great.
I just ordered the Mele Overclock C and was worried about DC power. Thanks for your solution! I've been using Anderson Power Poles for a few years now so I ordered the C pigtails and will make my own cable :) Your videos are absolutely wonderful!
Thanks. I needed -something- to tell me how it was all really working behind the scenes and this seems to work OK for my purpose. Glad you thought it helped.
Bought the exact same heatsink for new model called Quieter HD3Q, this has an extra space for 2,5 drive other than nvme and is a bit taller. Model gets hot but not dangerous, around 85° at max stress (stress bench), never seen going over that but still a concerning temp. With the heatsink it defeated 10 degrees for sure at least, reaching similar results on this video, at max stress i am between 70 and 80 degrees, which is crazy results for such an heatsink put on top of plastic case. I was skeptical about this video but was proven wrong, and i have to thank you because now i am very satisfied, other mini pc that i have with fans gets even hotter than this.
Validation is always a great thing! Sometimes too good to be true is just that. :-) I’m glad you went out and tested and got your own numbers as well. If nothing else, it helps to prove that it wasn’t a one off test or a fluke depending on how tight the tolerances are for the build of these devices. I picked up a 3Q recently as well, just do some testing, and the only disappointment I have so far is that it only has two USB3 port’s, which is baffling to me based on everything else they’ve done to this box. Thoughts?
@@PatriotAstro As said i've got the HD3Q which is the taller version with 2,5 slot, i'm not sure if those are the new line of Quieter but guess it's just a variant for those who wants the internal drive. It has 4 usb (two 3.0) like the normal 3Q. 3C other than 3 Usb should have an improved thermal design so maybe default temps could be lesser than those you recorded here. Considered i have more or less same results i guess those Mele fanless pc all behave same and gets hot, but as you said they have an efficent design to avoid harm. But those heatsinks make a difference with just a small cost, 10 degrees down it's great. I think everyone should consider it, i'm suggesting your video to my friends because you are the only who talks about this solution. Thank you for your time and effort.
If can i help i've sealed heatisnk to case with thermal tape, that i've also bought on Amzn, and i see slightly worsen gain, i wonder if tape insulate beside the thermal prerogative. I would not suggest toward it, direct contact seems better for heat transmission.
Great video, Thank you! I am surprised that nobody did comment your shirt. You could have exceptionally ended this video by saying 'Engage!' or 'Make it so!' I am really looking forward to the last video of this mini-series...
@patriotastro, I just stumbled onto this video after I already got my Quieter 3C up and running. I run it off of an Amcrest power brick which actually powers the 3C at 9.2V. My 3C has 8GB & a 1TB SSD and, I forget which but, ran for about 16 hours and had either about 76% or 84% capacity left on the battery. Just thought I'd pass along. Thanks for all the great videos!
Hi Dan! Thanks for this comment and the email. I can't wait to hear about the upcoming test results with additional power draw. Sounds quite promising!
Hi, Chad, I'm copying into here the bulk of the email I recently sent you regarding how I get power to my MeLE Quieter 3Q. I greatly appreciate the incredibly detailed advice you provide in your videos. Your RUclips vids on the MeLE Quieter were what tipped me over to acquiring that unit. Further, they were invaluable during setup. The journey to powering this unit has been an interesting one 😉 I pull power from a Jackery 240 portable battery. This connects to a Pegasus Pocket Powerbox Advance Gen2 via a “car cigarette lighter” style power cable. This provides 12V power to the Powerbox. The MeLE then pulls 12V power from the Powerbox. My first attempt at connecting the MeLE to the Powerbox was to use the 20V 5A cable that one of your other users recommended, you’ve posted this URL in the detailed notes for this video . I had problems while using this cable. Specifically, the MeLE frequently shut down on me. I don’t know if there was a voltage mis-match between this cable and the MeLE, which requires 12V power. With discretion being the better part of valor, I stopped using this cable. The next approach - and what I’m currently using to good effect - is to connect the Powerbox to the MeLE using one of the Powerbox’s provided 2.1 mm male-to-male 12V DC power cables, adapted to USB-C at one end using a DFRobot FIT0784 USB-C to 2.1mm DC plug adapter. I've provided you with one of the URLs for this in my email. I suspected this would work, because DFRobot’s web page for this item emphatically warns that this plug adapter does no voltage transformation, so you had better be certain that the voltage of your power source matches the voltage of your device! Those warnings were music to my ears 😉 So far, this connection approach has worked with no issues. Power transfer to the MeLE appears to be clean, and I’ve experienced no MeLE shutdowns. Keep up the good work!
I purchased the J4125-4GB-64GB Quieter2Q a few months ago and have tested in the hot/humid summer nights here in NC and with a similar style external heat sink the temps stay very reasonable now. Without the heatsink temps were 60C on the top side of the case while running inside the house. I have not had any issues with this computer during any imaging sessions. They are a good value for the money.
Another great video! I’d never even thought about temperature on my Quieter 3, so I’m going to check that out right now. Great tip about removing the stickers (crazy!). Puzzled about the power supply stuff tho. I plug my Mele into the Pegasus UPBv2 12V ‘always on’ and I’ve never had a problem.
Hello there! Just beginning my journey through setting up a Mele for astrophotography. FYI: I purchased a Mele Quieter 3Q a week a go and using a usb c powerbank that outputs 65w successfully powered it up and it works! Apparently the earlier versions did not work AND Mele states specifically that the powerbank needs to give more than 24w out…
Out of curiosity, what orientation was your mele during testing? I suspect mounting these on the mount not the OTA so that vertical airflow across the case or additional heat sink makes a big difference. Also having the vanes of the heat sink oriented "up" might be a huge advantage....Thanks!
It seems like a new version(not sure if it's actually new) - Quieter 3C which supports Type C PD connector is supported, that looks pretty nice, they even state astrophotography in the title XD I wonder if there are any other differences that should matter. Also, can the N5105 mini PC run live stack with pixinsight through NINA?
Fantastic video! Thanks for your work! I just bought a couple Mini-PC's for a work station and PFSense firewall/router. Your information is going to help me out a lot in preserving my investment.
Either one can work. I was quite surprised by the plastic case design being able to keep us in the 70s without the need for any additional cooling, even on a very hot day. It's always good to know your equipment and be informed though so I figured, why not do some testing! :) Plus I can't escape clouds.
Thanks for the video. Great info. I have been using the Quiter2 for a while now. Two issues I have found. 1. The internal battery on my system went flat and this will sometimes be in actuate. This cause NINA plate solve to fail. I have run different services to keep it actuate but still is a pain. Mele tech support was great to send me a replacement system but it had a different issue. 2. Over heating of system now sold in the US will cause the USB based Ethernet port to fail. I have obtained a replacement from Mele China with the original PCI based Ethernet port. This system is working better. Mele tech support has said they will be replacing the USB based Ethernet port with the PCI based starting in July is 2022. I will be buying the heat sync and removing the stickers. Regarding power I use a Pegasus Astro pocket power block and a 2.1 power to USB to power when I am not at home. That way I only have one power supply coming from my battery system up to the Pegasus Astro. Thanks heaps
@@PatriotAstro Chad, How did you adhere the heatsink to your Mele? In the video, you talked about the testing process of just resting the heatsink on the computer. How did you do this in the field? Thanks
I've been doing similar tests with a Quieter3 and initially bought the same heatsink, perfect shape and size. I'm testing a few more but won't be done for a while. To begin, ambient temp seems to make a big difference. The maximum I could reach without extra cooling is 82C after nearly 1h of stress tests and Cinebench on top. I'm using the PC in a chilly room at about 20-22C with low ventilation. You can really see it immediately drop once you place it on top. It's neat. I'm using the package temperature, however. Core temperatures tend to be lower and CoreTemp only gives those. The cores are usually 8-10C lower than the package when mostly idle, cores go higher under load but after a while reach equilibrium under sustained load. The main difference seems to be the integrated graphics core, which usually runs hotter. You can use HWINFO64 to get those readings. I wouldn't advise using thermal paste, would be messy, but a good thermal pad can make a difference. I tried with a 1.5 mm one and lowered by about 3C. Not a lot, but I recently watched a video testing various thermal pads, and 1.5 mm performed significantly worse than 0.5 mm so I expect better there. I'll be testing those, along with a graphite sheet, but I'm not sure if it will be thick enough to fill in the dents. If needed, stacking a bit more mass can help. For example adding an extra heatsink on top, I can get 4-5C lower even, and that's without trying too much. The higher ambient temperatures, the more you'll likely need, but enough should be able to cool under any circumstances.
Great info! Are you seeing ambient temp affect idle processing more than loaded processing? I've seen that in many cases where at idle, a higher ambient temperature runs the system hotter than at a lower ambient temp, but when at a higher processing load, the temp seems to stabilize roughly the same possibly because the temperature differential between ambient and loaded is vastly different as compared to ambient and idle. Hmm.
As many others have pointed out, another great video. Curious as to where everyone mounts theirs, so that the PC is upright. I had planned to mount it under my scope dovetail plate. Now I'm thinking I'll have to install on top of the scope.
Unless you are in an area that is extremely hot at night, you very likely won’t have any issues with the orientation of the mounting for evening use. I wouldn’t overthink it too much. Just find a good spot that gives you the cable reaches you need and good balance, whether it’s on or off the scope.
@@PatriotAstro Ok, thanks. That helps, I can stick with my initial plan
10 месяцев назад
you might have noticed the metal bottom plate gets much hotter then the top plastic pyramid heatsink. adding the external heatsink to the metal plate with some thermal compound would be far more useful.
My first fanless PC is a firewall appliance, running as a firewall.. Would not be surprised if someone turned one of these sort of devices into a Windows PC. Already comes with a decent sized heatsink. I went from a regular desktop with the standard noise that comes with it to a mini-pc about 2 years back. The thing was, when I finally turned off the desktop PC, I was stunned on how noisy it actually was, despite me not really noticing. Today was my benchmark where I put the rest of the house "under" it, with all internet devices and such going thru it. I'd probably be found guilty of over-spec'ing what I purchased... N100 4 core; it's got all the necessary ports to run it with dual monitors as well. It runs somewhere around 47 degrees C or 111 F. I'm going to put it on a steel rack, with plenty of air above and below .. Rack comes in tomorrow.
A few questions: - How does it handle Visual Studio? - Can it be powered from a USB power source? -is it ppossible to enable virtualization in the BIOS?
I don’t run visual studio on mine, but I can’t imagine it would be too bad. Gaming and intense video might be another story although I’ve seen people do that too. The power on these boxes is 12 V so it won’t run directly off 5 V USB power. I didn’t check virtualization either because I’m not using it that way. If I get a chance and remember to check, I’ll let you know.
Hmm, I never thought about CPU temperature on my outdoor rig computers. :However, my mini-PCs are fan-cooled. So far I haven't experienced any problems operating during the last several hot nights. I think I will look into the heat sink. Plus, placing it on top of the computer will help shield it from the dew. (I have the computer sitting on the accessory plate of the tripod and not on the scope.) As usual, good report Chad.
Thanks. You may not have the same issue with a fan based cooling system, but it will be interested to hear back if you give this a shot and get results.
Nice video...very helpful. I'm considering switching from my Raspberry Pi/Stellarmate based system - I had clear skies last night, the first clear skies I've had in a couple of months and fought with connectivity issues for 2 hours before I gave up. Very disappointing. So, I'm considering the switch to Windows based NINA, and this mini PC would be perfect. I'm curious about the application of thermal glue/paste using the heatsink? Would you expect even better cooling performance with the inclusion of the thin layer of glue? It appears that the top of the Mele is corrugated, so there would seem to be some of the surface of the Mele would not make contact with the entire surface of the heatsink. Thanks for the informative video
You are right. You don’t really want any gaps and the thermals do flow better between layers if it is smooth. I would first try it without anything though, not even a heatsink. It’s most likely not actually necessary. It becomes more problematic if you’re running in very hot temperatures or doing solar imaging.
Excellent video, thank you. I have a very large, thick steel pier and was considering mounting the miniPC with the metal top in direct contact with the cold steel pier…it actual fits rather well between the concrete base and the bottom of the pier…. I assume this would be an excellent heat sink. One other question is the durability of these miniPC with extreme temperature change… keeping the unit in an unheated obs in -20C winter and then cranking it up the +70 C might have a lot of thermal stress on the components over time. Any thoughts ? Cheers
You are right, if you can get it mounted properly, that would be an incredible heat sink that could work very well for you. We’ve seen similar results with other people mounting to sturdy brackets on their telescope with similar results. You are right in regards to temperature too. You may need to find a way to get the temperature up a bit. You may find that it helps to mount it in some sort of an enclosure , and or even nearby an dew strap that could warm the device before you get it running. All computer equipment does have limitations as it relates to temperature variations, just like any of your other equipment out in the observatory. Let me know what you try.
I have the Mele Quieter 3C. I noticed the bottom gets very hot. So I am planning to screw it to a 30mm losmandy plate when it arrives. I will apply a thermal pad or paste to the bottom then screw it on so the losmandy plate acts as a giant heat spreader. Also according to Intel, 105C is the max temp for the N5105 so I personally am not concerned about damage should it operate in the 80's here and there, but keeping temps down is always good.
i'm not exactly sure but i looked up the celeron n5105 max temp and it seems to be 105 degrees celsius according to the intel page. wouldn't that mean that with 80 or even 90 degrees, it would still be quite far away from taking damage?
I had the same question, its listed on Amazon as 105c being its max operating temp, also its supposed to come with a Vesa mount which would imply it should be safe to run it vertically.
3:20 I have been using pc sticks and ultra mini / pocket computers for 4 years now for my astro. I just got the MeLE Quieter 3c as I thought the format was nice - also very similar to my lenovo n90, the cpu was adequate and with a lower TDP.. but it's not that it's hot, it is SUPER hot to the extent I can barely touch it ! And mind you, I wasn't doing any processing, I was litteraly just installing softwares to try to test it. And if the solution is to double the size by putting a heat sink (6:50), then I don't see the point. 12:40 I do confirm that indeed even when turned down, it stayed at ~80° for probably 5-10mn. My goal was to add a M2 SSD for planetary imaging as you need Tb of data for that.. But I am afraid that will just burn at this stage. The other issue is.. Windows 11. The MeLE with 16gb of RAM and a better cpu is effectively slower than my pc stick J4125.
I want to re re update my test with a bigger heatsink 100x150mm, same area of Mele Quieter 3HDQ which is is the bigger brother of 3Q/C. I've got shocking results with this heatsink with a defeat of 15 degrees on my usual temps. Even if the model of this video is less bigger i suggest go for an heatsink with same exact size of Mele top to improve the heat transfer, results arr shocking for just an aluminum heatsink put on top. Take note if you use a thermal tape will insulate a bit but overall the improvement with little price is totally worth it.
Agreed! I was also shocked with the results after just sitting it on top. It almost immediately started to drop the temp. The only down-side I have seen is that it can negatively affect the wifi performance.
I use a male 12v 5.5x2.1 mm --> USB C power cable that's about 6 inches long. It connects a 12v female terminal on my battery unit directly to the USB-C input on the Quieter 3. Also, I use a 128GB XDSC card to store images and then, since it can be removed quickly without opening the case, I move the little data card to a card reader on my main PC to load and process the images. Do you know if adding an NVME drive changes the power consumption of the Quieter PC compared to the built-in storage+XDSC? Did you do any tests to see if the (albeit slower) built-in storage was up to the task of keeping up with video capture? I don't do planetary or solar; for DSO the XDSC option works fine and is very convienent for me. Good call on removing the stickers. Thanks for your hard work and video toutorials.
The power consumption of that drive doesn't seem to add much if any additional overhead. Even under my high load, the Q3 was consistently at ~8 Watts, which at ~12V, is around 0.8Amps of draw (with the NVMe in use). You can go back to my video 1 from my PC performance testing to see the eMMC vs NVMe speeds (maybe a week or 2 old video now). For DSO, eMMC is ok. But for planetary, Solar, Lunar, etc higher frame rate captures, the system was buffering disk writes on the eMMC but never on the NVMe. On the stickers... ya, weird... I know. :) LOL
So I got the recommended heat sink today and its currently sitting on top of my MeLE 3 - temp is 38-40C with my 26m in Sharpcap running in a test shot, cap on the telescope, 1600x1200, cooler running to -5C, Mono16 ULN mode. Current load is 8% on Core 0. If I remove the sink... 40-42C mark and this is nothing else running apart from Windows. So the Sink works. Whats the best way to get the sink onto the body work? Thermal paste is great for flat tiny CPU surfaces... how will it affect the bumped large surface area of the pc? Thanks for the video! Ok the temp is now 47-55C. SC off - idling at 43-44C.
Thank you for this very informative video Chad ! Should we be concerned by the weather proof of our outdoor computers ? I mean even if there is no rain at night when I take astrophotos, in the morning I often find my gear soaked with water due to humidity. I rarely see astronomers protecting their connectors or mini pc from humidity or light rain. (Not speaking about the water sprinklers in the garden... yes... i it happened to me 😱) When I was teenager, I was a radio controlled model car enthusiast. We used to protect the radio transmitters in the car by putting them inside party balloons.... yes we are speaking about tiny gears :-) Do you think it is a matter ?
I wouldn't think we would have a problem with condensation forming on these smaller fanless systems. Condensation will form when warmer air meets a cooler surface but in our case we have a warm to hot surface on the pc that is warmer than the air. Unlike a telescope that is pointing up into the cold dark sky, in that case, the telescope loses heat to the sky and as it cools and approaches the ambient air temp it will have a condensation issue. To avoid this with scopes, we use heat straps to generate heat and remain above the ambient air temp... with our pc, we use the cpu to heat everything as an indirect benefit. As far as sprinklers go, maybe an umbrella, but seriously, I have used a plastic container but make sure it can vent enough to not allow the heat to build. It's a balance. :) FYI, I did a science-y video on dew prevention if you are interested. ruclips.net/video/fNCqcC54NUw/видео.html
Sure, it was a very hot day in Atlanta, GA. Temp was 97F(36C). I think we are focusing on outdoor air temperature too much though since even a cooled computer will run in the 50-60+ C range which will always be hotter than the surroundings which will actually help to cool our computer. :)
I don’t use them for astronomy but I’ve had a quieter2 for months and just picked up a quieter3. They do get hot but I have extensive monitoring using node red and I haven’t seen any alarming temps.
I understand that Mele designed the top of Q3 with a plastic top to facilitate WiFi transmission through the case. If the heat sink is used that would seem to impact the WiFi correct? Have you tried using the heat sink in the field and what is your experience with WiFi connectivity?
It can definitely shorten your Wi-Fi range. Typically in the field that isn’t a huge issue because you can be close enough to your scope, it may be more problematic at home if you set up far from the house.
@@PatriotAstro Yes, I just added a Mele to my observatory with the intentions of replacing my laptop. The Mele Wifi doesnt have the range of my laptop and with the heat sink on top I'm getting wifi drop out and loss of RDP.
I use a usb-c to 5.5x2.1 cable on my ecoflow river battery with my Mele Quieter3Q, runs fine. Still I got an issue with it - sometimes it pauses guiding for a few seconds and I still have no idea why. The NVME (WD blue 3gbps read and write) is kind of dissapointing, doesn't feel to run faster than with the stock emmc. So at the moment I am back at my trusty laptop.
I wonder if you have a driver conflict or something in there? Hmm. It could explain your guiding pause, apparent drive perf, and maybe some other system issues. Hoping it is just software and not a hardware issue though since that is far easier to solve.
Hey Chad - Seem to be having issue with running The Quieter 3 off the battery (through the Pegasus UPBv2). I'm suspecting that it has to do with the cable from the UPB to the Mele that provides power. I seem to remember something about specs for the cable - have you been having any issues? When I plug directly into 120v using their power block, no issues.
Are you getting any power to the device? Is it running but then failing (eventually)? Is the power button lighting up, but it won't power on? It could be the cable. I've seen some of these style cables that state they are PD power only and prevent reverse current flow. I'm not sure how they are accomplishing this BUT many of the 12vDC to USBc PD cables I've seen are designed to have the electrical 'load' on the opposite end. They are expecting the power source to be on the USBc side and the 12v DC connector to be on the 'load' side. We need to flip that in our use case and PD designed cables may prevent that from working.
@@PatriotAstro It may have been the fact that I wasn't using the "always on" power output from the UPBv2. I ran again last night strictly of battery and from always-on power and seemed to work much better. The original symptom was that the Mele would randomly power itself off - or, I guess, power was not being delivered properly to the box. I'm going to try another couple of tests - am interested in finding a proper (longer) USB-C to 2.5mm PD cable at some point.
Thank you so much for these videos! I´ve learned quite a lot :) I was wondering whether anyone here has some advice on how to weatherproof these though. Since I plan on leaving my telescope outside overnight and remotely controlling it, I´m a little concerned about rain or snow.
Unless you have a dome or a rolloff roof type observatory, which would protect all of your equipment, there’s probably not a lot of options other than being vigilant with the weather report. If you do go the route of a rolloff roof or a dome, then there are ASCOM safety monitor solutions that can use sky conditions, weather forecasts, and even rain sensors to close the domes or roof automatically when the weather change is detected. Otherwise, it’s a bit manual.
They had told me it provided optimal venting when laying flat. The vesa mount is so they could compete with other vendors in the TV space, specifically for use cases where the system would provide digital signage via tv screens. (Menu's at fast food restaurants, conference center wall displays for schedules, airport flight info screens, etc that are lower power use cases.). Depending on your ambient temperature, etc you may in fact find mounting it vertically is fine, but the best venting is horizontal.
Dude. This thing gets hot like hot hot. 90c to F = 194F. Im not saying thats bad - this thing checks all the boxes for an astro PC but I was not prepared for how hot it gets haha. Now, thinking back, the case is an actual heatsink with no fan so.. I just unboxed it, installed an NVME, reloaded Windows and let it do its thing with updates. I can hold it for like 8 seconds before I have to put it down. I can boil macaroni noodles - pull one out with a spoon and drop it in my hand without burning myself. This thing is about that hot. I really like it but dang - its hot. And yeah - thermal tape and all that is perfectly applied. Someone more smarter than me could 100% rig something up to eliminate the need for a dew heater and utilize the heat from this instead. Just saying. Thanks for the reviews.
Fanless systems do get very hot, or at least can when they’re running hard like processing images or running a Windows update for sure. But they definitely stay within specifications and aren’t going to damage any internal components. Other than maybe your hands. Let me know if you cook an egg on it though I’d love to see the meal outcome. :-)
I put a Crucial 1TB NVMe M.2 solid state drive in my Quieter3, I noticed that when used the heatsink tape, it doesn't come in contact with the case, it's not thick enough. So my question is does it need to contact the outer case in order to do any good? Do I need a thicker heatsink tape? what are your thoughts on this. I have removed the stickers from the Quieter3 case as you recommended and I also bought a large external heatsink to mount on the top of the case. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I was able to get the NVMe drive loaded with Win11 and it is the boot drive, all is looking great at this point. Thanks for your instructions on getting this done.
Great video! I'm wondering if there would be a significant core temperature drop if the ambient temp was something like 70 vs 95. So the heat sink may not be needed. Thanks!
In this case, and with this particular fanless cooling design, I doubt it would matter. The surrounding ambient air temperature will always be lower than the core temperatures, and thermodynamically, heat transfer is from high to low. Two materials undergoing a heat transfer are trying to reach equilibrium, but in our case, one of the materials is the surrounding air which will never meet the processing temperature and always be lower. (Unless you enclose the space the computer runs in and create a closed system where the surrounding air temp could actually rise. Plus, the highest recorded air temp on earth was ~57C in Death Valley and even that is lower that the CPU temps we experience.) Because air temps are lower than our CPU temps, I don't think it matters. BUT, don't confuse this design with fan based designs. Those designs require air flow and often have an expectation within the design about the temperature range of that airflow. The fan can increase or decrease the RPM but if the ambient air temperature is too high, the cooling system can meet its goals. I will also add at the end here that the MeLE system did stay under 80C while at load without the heatsink so it does seem like you can run it without the heatsink, and only really need to add one if you prefer to run it at lower temps or have concerns based on your mounting of the box, etc.
Finished a fanless system and travel router. Found the temperature was getting too high. Amazon sells 40 mm usb powered fans. I ordered one. I already tried a heat sink but I didn’t see much help
I am considering the MeLE Quieter 3C computer. I would like to use it for solar imaging but am concerned about the heat issue. I live in southern AZ where summer temperatures can consistently exceed 100+ degrees. As was mentioned in some comments here, the heat sink could affect WiFi capability so I was looking at possibly using a small USB fan that I could stick on the MeLE to keep it cool. It seems like one person did that. Is that a possible good option?
Possibly. I’m not so sure I would stick a fan to it so much as run air across it. 1 or 2 fans that draw a stream of air across the unit. Direct sunlight avoidance is the real key. Keep it shaded.
It could be difficult to find a place to position a fan, plus I would be blowing hot air over the mini. What if I have the fan on the mini blowing out and extracting the heat off the mini?
@@johndwyer1095 it’s more about moving air. And having good airflow. Plus the air you are moving across the unit is still a good deal cooler than the unit itself so thermodynamically the hotter temps will flow towards the cooler as far as heat transfer goes. Find my email address on the About page of my channel and send me an email. I just got a reply from MeLE tech-support about the operating temperatures of the units. I can send it to you.
Great info.........What form of attachment ( thermal tape/epoxy?) would you suggest for the heat sink to the top of the Mele? I am using an Mele 2 with the J4125 processor and finding significant temperatures like 90 degrees if running Sharpcap or Stellarium so the Heat sink looks like a must. I guess would either need to be a thermal epoxy or Tape but I have no experience with the performance or adhesion. Since the scope will rotate during the night the sink needs to be reasonably adhered to the Mele PC. Interested in your thoughts
Ya, it's tricky for sure. Thermal tape would be nice but it depends on the tape you get and its ability to hold a ~250g heatsink through the easy movement of the slewing mount. Most uses of thermal tape are for smaller heatsinks, but it isn't out of the question. Thermal epoxy/glue may be a better choice but can get a bit messy and needs plenty of time to cure. Yet another option would be to use a mechanical solution like a z-clip. This is often a wire that runs down through the middle fins and clips at both ends to hold it in place. It can be used with paste/glue/tape as well. The problem with this solution is that it is typically engineered to fit for the use case, BUT I don't see why something couldn't be worked out similarly. You could put a thin layer of metal/wood/lexan under the unit with 2 holes at the end and use that to fasten a makeshift clip at both ends of the sink to hold it tightly in place compressed against the top of the unit. (Or, effectively, just tie it on to the unit with a metal wire or 2, I'd still combine it with tape or something as well.) This is all likely more work than you were hoping for. :) So, maybe a well cured thermal epoxy, or and I know no one wants to hear this, moving the unit down off the scope with a hub as a replacement and one more wire (USB) running down to it from the hub. Oh, and when looking at your options, check to see if they publish strength numbers, like tensile strength, etc. It may be listed in MegaPascal (MPa) but 1MPa converts to ~145psi (pounds per square inch) so it is easy to sort out.
Can you please provide a link to a thermal pad of the appropriate size for the heatsink you linked? Ideally one with thermally conductive adhesive on both sides. Thanks!
As a follow on to this question. I am going to assume you used a thermal pad on your setup since you recommended one in your comments above. Did you remove the peel off adhesive cover on both sides of the pad? Obviously you had to take the one off that sticks it to the NVME drive, but I don't know about the side that sits against the cover. If you stick it to the cover and to the NVME is it a problem getting the cover back off later? Thanks for any suggestions on this.
@@hael8680 I honestly do not know. I can’t find a minimum temperature for the CPUs or the system. I would suggest keeping it warm as once it gets running it will generate plenty of heat. The initial start in extreme cold could be questionable. I think even body heat would do the trick though.
2 года назад+2
I have no experience with the Quieter2/3 but i do use a similar fanless miniPC in my backyard observatory. The average temperature is about -5°C throughout dec-feb with a few nights here and there below -20°C. I left my miniPC powered on 24/7 without failure, according to the temperature sensors on the CPU and motherboard the PC temp was usually around 15-20°C on a normal day, and around 0-5°C on the coldest days (this is when idle, however i did not have any power saving features activated). I have no idea how accurate these readings are at such a low temperature since it is not designed for those conditions, it might not even display readings in the negatives. Unfortunately most consumer grade tech have a specified operational ambient temperature range of about 0-40°C so it is a gamble. Notable exception is for example PegasusAstro's Focuscube v2 which according to their specification is rated for -40 to +40°C, i do not think ive seen any other "cheap" astro gear with that temperature spec.
@ 100% right. There are fanless systems that can range through sub-zero and also extreme highs as a guaranteed operating range but those tend to be in the 'industrial' category. You can often find them still somewhat affordable but they will be larger and quite frequently have ports you dont need like multiple DB9 serial ports. In most cases you will be ok for some amount of cold below the published specification but you should pay attention to the system when well out of range for sure.
Keeping the plastic top clear is key but it is also expected to be mounted such that heat can dissipate properly. This means that horizontal right-side up mounting is ideal, followed by sideways mounting, with the worst case option being upside down. But,… depending on your situation (other venting/breezes, ambient temperature, etc) it could still work but would need testing to be sure.
@@PatriotAstroSo mounting it on the telescope, which, for me was the whole point, means it will never be horizontal right side up. With the telescope parked in home position, the computer will be on a 45 degree slope withe USB ports on the low end. As the mount slews, the computer will end up pretty much on it's side and after a meridian flip it will be on it's other side. So where/how are folks mounting these?
I just picked up a Quiter3 and am doing a brand new setup with an NVME drive. When running the updates it seemed to be running very hot. I installed core temp and found that it was consistently running at close to 100C just trying to download and install updates. I eventually got updates installed but it is still running hot. For instance it got up to 90C just trying to download and install chrome. Any idea what could be causing this? I’m indoors in 70F with the labels pulled off.
Just keep an eye on it for now to see if it averages out. Depending on how Coretemp is configured, you may be getting some isolated readings that are quite high or be looking at the high temp for the cycle. It may average out lower. Let me know how it goes. Just out of curiosity, did you put a thermal pad between the NVMEe and case cover?
@@PatriotAstro My concern is that the computer feels HOT when it has been sitting idle (just the login screen) for an hour. I did install the thermal pad.
@@dougwill756 Definitely keep an eye on it. I wonder if it is doing something in the background like large windows feature update downloads that may be keeping the CPU and WIFI fully engaged.
Yep, another great fanless system. Comparable to the J4125 Quieter 2 but with an M2 SATA SSD. So many of these small form factor platforms that work great for Astro!
@@PatriotAstro what i liked is that it uses the normal 12v 2.1mm plug which the camera, filterwheel etc uses. used it for 2 years in a housing which is all year round outside. it also turns on when it has power...important for remote control..
broo it took you like 4 mins of usless talking just to get to the temps in the TEMPS chapter please stop rambling you are just listening to yourself talk at that point.
it's not always perfect, that I'll certainly admit. It is challenging to head off at a pace that everyone to follow. My assumption is that some people need it a bit slower with more explanation, and others can fast forward when needed. Even still, i make mistake. Overall, I hope the video helped.
Agreed. I’m guessing you don’t like too many RUclips videos. :) The majority seem to be created by people that aren’t trained content creators who have no script or guidelines, which allows them to go way off the rails. I do try my best in all of my videos to be as succinct as possible, but still keep it educational and enjoyable. I’m sorry I missed the mark for you this time.
Own a Quieter3C. This video helped me a lot. I bought the exact same heat sink and everything works as expected. My Quieter3C is way cooler now and the heat sink is in the hot seat!!! Thanks "Patriot Astro".
Great idea 💡 I use the heatsink with great results. Adding a small set of 2 usb 40mm fans epoxied to the side of the heatsink resulted in a extra reduction of 15C, handy for those solar imaging days in Florida.
Is the fan blowing air into the heatsink or pulling?
@@daigunder35blowing into
Great video! I bought a similar heatsink and used thermal conductive tape to stick it to the Quieter3Q. I then used two plastic coated wire ties to secure it even more, and hopefully keep it from slipping. Mine is mounted to a tripod leg. BTW, I do not believe that these need to be kept flat: 1- It comes with a VESA bracket, 2- I did not notice any temperature differences related to orientation during my testing.
I bought the beelink u59 because it has a fan, so no temp worries. I run atp, phd2, stellarium, pixinsight, deepsky stacker and others at the same time, no problems. I even do 50 frame stacks in dds while imaging and its done quickly, with temps in the 70s. I use ithrottle to keep the cpu a full speed of 2.9hz. The mini pc is great.
Yes, those Beelink systems are very nice for sure. Always nice to have something that can be a workhorse like that for you!
You make great instructional videos. Simple, clearly articulated with just enough detail. You get a “thumbs up” from me 😉
Awesome! Thank you!
I just ordered the Mele Overclock C and was worried about DC power. Thanks for your solution! I've been using Anderson Power Poles for a few years now so I ordered the C pigtails and will make my own cable :) Your videos are absolutely wonderful!
Glad I could help!
This is the best benchmark I've seen for this product so far. Thanks a lot
Thanks. I needed -something- to tell me how it was all really working behind the scenes and this seems to work OK for my purpose. Glad you thought it helped.
Bought the exact same heatsink for new model called Quieter HD3Q, this has an extra space for 2,5 drive other than nvme and is a bit taller. Model gets hot but not dangerous, around 85° at max stress (stress bench), never seen going over that but still a concerning temp. With the heatsink it defeated 10 degrees for sure at least, reaching similar results on this video, at max stress i am between 70 and 80 degrees, which is crazy results for such an heatsink put on top of plastic case. I was skeptical about this video but was proven wrong, and i have to thank you because now i am very satisfied, other mini pc that i have with fans gets even hotter than this.
Validation is always a great thing! Sometimes too good to be true is just that. :-) I’m glad you went out and tested and got your own numbers as well. If nothing else, it helps to prove that it wasn’t a one off test or a fluke depending on how tight the tolerances are for the build of these devices. I picked up a 3Q recently as well, just do some testing, and the only disappointment I have so far is that it only has two USB3 port’s, which is baffling to me based on everything else they’ve done to this box. Thoughts?
@@PatriotAstro As said i've got the HD3Q which is the taller version with 2,5 slot, i'm not sure if those are the new line of Quieter but guess it's just a variant for those who wants the internal drive. It has 4 usb (two 3.0) like the normal 3Q. 3C other than 3 Usb should have an improved thermal design so maybe default temps could be lesser than those you recorded here. Considered i have more or less same results i guess those Mele fanless pc all behave same and gets hot, but as you said they have an efficent design to avoid harm. But those heatsinks make a difference with just a small cost, 10 degrees down it's great.
I think everyone should consider it, i'm suggesting your video to my friends because you are the only who talks about this solution. Thank you for your time and effort.
If can i help i've sealed heatisnk to case with thermal tape, that i've also bought on Amzn, and i see slightly worsen gain, i wonder if tape insulate beside the thermal prerogative. I would not suggest toward it, direct contact seems better for heat transmission.
Great video, Thank you!
I am surprised that nobody did comment your shirt. You could have exceptionally ended this video by saying 'Engage!' or 'Make it so!'
I am really looking forward to the last video of this mini-series...
LOL! Maybe one of these days!
@patriotastro, I just stumbled onto this video after I already got my Quieter 3C up and running. I run it off of an Amcrest power brick which actually powers the 3C at 9.2V. My 3C has 8GB & a 1TB SSD and, I forget which but, ran for about 16 hours and had either about 76% or 84% capacity left on the battery. Just thought I'd pass along.
Thanks for all the great videos!
Hi Dan! Thanks for this comment and the email. I can't wait to hear about the upcoming test results with additional power draw. Sounds quite promising!
Thanks for the tip about removing the stickers. I literally paused the video to do just that 😁 Great video as usual!
LOL! I know, it was crazy! Thanks for watching!
Hi, Chad, I'm copying into here the bulk of the email I recently sent you regarding how I get power to my MeLE Quieter 3Q.
I greatly appreciate the incredibly detailed advice you provide in your videos. Your RUclips vids on the MeLE Quieter were what tipped me over to acquiring that unit. Further, they were invaluable during setup.
The journey to powering this unit has been an interesting one 😉
I pull power from a Jackery 240 portable battery. This connects to a Pegasus Pocket Powerbox Advance Gen2 via a “car cigarette lighter” style power cable. This provides 12V power to the Powerbox. The MeLE then pulls 12V power from the Powerbox.
My first attempt at connecting the MeLE to the Powerbox was to use the 20V 5A cable that one of your other users recommended, you’ve posted this URL in the detailed notes for this video . I had problems while using this cable. Specifically, the MeLE frequently shut down on me. I don’t know if there was a voltage mis-match between this cable and the MeLE, which requires 12V power. With discretion being the better part of valor, I stopped using this cable.
The next approach - and what I’m currently using to good effect - is to connect the Powerbox to the MeLE using one of the Powerbox’s provided 2.1 mm male-to-male 12V DC power cables, adapted to USB-C at one end using a DFRobot FIT0784 USB-C to 2.1mm DC plug adapter. I've provided you with one of the URLs for this in my email.
I suspected this would work, because DFRobot’s web page for this item emphatically warns that this plug adapter does no voltage transformation, so you had better be certain that the voltage of your power source matches the voltage of your device! Those warnings were music to my ears 😉
So far, this connection approach has worked with no issues. Power transfer to the MeLE appears to be clean, and I’ve experienced no MeLE shutdowns.
Keep up the good work!
Glad I could get to this in the email after the hiatus. :) I assume it is all still working for you?
I purchased the J4125-4GB-64GB Quieter2Q a few months ago and have tested in the hot/humid summer nights here in NC and with a similar style external heat sink the temps stay very reasonable now. Without the heatsink temps were 60C on the top side of the case while running inside the house. I have not had any issues with this computer during any imaging sessions. They are a good value for the money.
They sure are. Pretty amazing for a small system. Thanks for your feedback on your own experience with the box and heatsink!
Another great video! I’d never even thought about temperature on my Quieter 3, so I’m going to check that out right now. Great tip about removing the stickers (crazy!). Puzzled about the power supply stuff tho. I plug my Mele into the Pegasus UPBv2 12V ‘always on’ and I’ve never had a problem.
You are good on power then. Lots of people are going straight to 12V battery, etc without the option you have. Sounds like you are good to go!
Hello there! Just beginning my journey through setting up a Mele for astrophotography. FYI: I purchased a Mele Quieter 3Q a week a go and using a usb c powerbank that outputs 65w successfully powered it up and it works! Apparently the earlier versions did not work AND Mele states specifically that the powerbank needs to give more than 24w out…
The case is the heat sink, first thing I did was remove the stickers, kudos for pointing that out.
Out of curiosity, what orientation was your mele during testing? I suspect mounting these on the mount not the OTA so that vertical airflow across the case or additional heat sink makes a big difference. Also having the vanes of the heat sink oriented "up" might be a huge advantage....Thanks!
It seems like a new version(not sure if it's actually new) - Quieter 3C which supports Type C PD connector is supported, that looks pretty nice, they even state astrophotography in the title XD
I wonder if there are any other differences that should matter.
Also, can the N5105 mini PC run live stack with pixinsight through NINA?
Fantastic video! Thanks for your work! I just bought a couple Mini-PC's for a work station and PFSense firewall/router. Your information is going to help me out a lot in preserving my investment.
Woww man this is what I call pure gole 🥇. Thank you for your efforts to put this together. Real quality! 👌🙏
Interesting results Chad, I just have an Quieter 3 on order, this video makes me doubt if it wouldn't be better to choose an NUC
Great video again !
Either one can work. I was quite surprised by the plastic case design being able to keep us in the 70s without the need for any additional cooling, even on a very hot day. It's always good to know your equipment and be informed though so I figured, why not do some testing! :) Plus I can't escape clouds.
Thanks for the video. Great info.
I have been using the Quiter2 for a while now. Two issues I have found.
1. The internal battery on my system went flat and this will sometimes be in actuate. This cause NINA plate solve to fail. I have run different services to keep it actuate but still is a pain. Mele tech support was great to send me a replacement system but it had a different issue.
2. Over heating of system now sold in the US will cause the USB based Ethernet port to fail. I have obtained a replacement from Mele China with the original PCI based Ethernet port. This system is working better.
Mele tech support has said they will be replacing the USB based Ethernet port with the PCI based starting in July is 2022.
I will be buying the heat sync and removing the stickers.
Regarding power I use a Pegasus Astro pocket power block and a 2.1 power to USB to power when I am not at home. That way I only have one power supply coming from my battery system up to the Pegasus Astro.
Thanks heaps
Thanks for the info!
@@PatriotAstro Chad, How did you adhere the heatsink to your Mele? In the video, you talked about the testing process of just resting the heatsink on the computer. How did you do this in the field? Thanks
I've been doing similar tests with a Quieter3 and initially bought the same heatsink, perfect shape and size. I'm testing a few more but won't be done for a while.
To begin, ambient temp seems to make a big difference. The maximum I could reach without extra cooling is 82C after nearly 1h of stress tests and Cinebench on top. I'm using the PC in a chilly room at about 20-22C with low ventilation. You can really see it immediately drop once you place it on top. It's neat.
I'm using the package temperature, however. Core temperatures tend to be lower and CoreTemp only gives those. The cores are usually 8-10C lower than the package when mostly idle, cores go higher under load but after a while reach equilibrium under sustained load. The main difference seems to be the integrated graphics core, which usually runs hotter. You can use HWINFO64 to get those readings.
I wouldn't advise using thermal paste, would be messy, but a good thermal pad can make a difference. I tried with a 1.5 mm one and lowered by about 3C. Not a lot, but I recently watched a video testing various thermal pads, and 1.5 mm performed significantly worse than 0.5 mm so I expect better there. I'll be testing those, along with a graphite sheet, but I'm not sure if it will be thick enough to fill in the dents.
If needed, stacking a bit more mass can help. For example adding an extra heatsink on top, I can get 4-5C lower even, and that's without trying too much. The higher ambient temperatures, the more you'll likely need, but enough should be able to cool under any circumstances.
Great info! Are you seeing ambient temp affect idle processing more than loaded processing? I've seen that in many cases where at idle, a higher ambient temperature runs the system hotter than at a lower ambient temp, but when at a higher processing load, the temp seems to stabilize roughly the same possibly because the temperature differential between ambient and loaded is vastly different as compared to ambient and idle. Hmm.
As many others have pointed out, another great video. Curious as to where everyone mounts theirs, so that the PC is upright. I had planned to mount it under my scope dovetail plate. Now I'm thinking I'll have to install on top of the scope.
Unless you are in an area that is extremely hot at night, you very likely won’t have any issues with the orientation of the mounting for evening use. I wouldn’t overthink it too much. Just find a good spot that gives you the cable reaches you need and good balance, whether it’s on or off the scope.
@@PatriotAstro Ok, thanks. That helps, I can stick with my initial plan
you might have noticed the metal bottom plate gets much hotter then the top plastic pyramid heatsink. adding the external heatsink to the metal plate with some thermal compound would be far more useful.
Thanks a lot for your awesome and in depth videos! :)
:) Glad I was able to help!
My first fanless PC is a firewall appliance, running as a firewall.. Would not be surprised if someone turned one of these sort of devices into a Windows PC. Already comes with a decent sized heatsink. I went from a regular desktop with the standard noise that comes with it to a mini-pc about 2 years back. The thing was, when I finally turned off the desktop PC, I was stunned on how noisy it actually was, despite me not really noticing.
Today was my benchmark where I put the rest of the house "under" it, with all internet devices and such going thru it. I'd probably be found guilty of over-spec'ing what I purchased... N100 4 core; it's got all the necessary ports to run it with dual monitors as well. It runs somewhere around 47 degrees C or 111 F. I'm going to put it on a steel rack, with plenty of air above and below .. Rack comes in tomorrow.
Sounds like a beast for a home FW. :)
A few questions:
- How does it handle Visual Studio?
- Can it be powered from a USB power source?
-is it ppossible to enable virtualization in the BIOS?
I don’t run visual studio on mine, but I can’t imagine it would be too bad. Gaming and intense video might be another story although I’ve seen people do that too. The power on these boxes is 12 V so it won’t run directly off 5 V USB power. I didn’t check virtualization either because I’m not using it that way. If I get a chance and remember to check, I’ll let you know.
@@PatriotAstro
Thanks.
Hmm, I never thought about CPU temperature on my outdoor rig computers. :However, my mini-PCs are fan-cooled. So far I haven't experienced any problems operating during the last several hot nights. I think I will look into the heat sink. Plus, placing it on top of the computer will help shield it from the dew. (I have the computer sitting on the accessory plate of the tripod and not on the scope.) As usual, good report Chad.
Thanks. You may not have the same issue with a fan based cooling system, but it will be interested to hear back if you give this a shot and get results.
Nice video...very helpful. I'm considering switching from my Raspberry Pi/Stellarmate based system - I had clear skies last night, the first clear skies I've had in a couple of months and fought with connectivity issues for 2 hours before I gave up. Very disappointing. So, I'm considering the switch to Windows based NINA, and this mini PC would be perfect.
I'm curious about the application of thermal glue/paste using the heatsink? Would you expect even better cooling performance with the inclusion of the thin layer of glue? It appears that the top of the Mele is corrugated, so there would seem to be some of the surface of the Mele would not make contact with the entire surface of the heatsink.
Thanks for the informative video
You are right. You don’t really want any gaps and the thermals do flow better between layers if it is smooth. I would first try it without anything though, not even a heatsink. It’s most likely not actually necessary. It becomes more problematic if you’re running in very hot temperatures or doing solar imaging.
Excellent video, thank you. I have a very large, thick steel pier and was considering mounting the miniPC with the metal top in direct contact with the cold steel pier…it actual fits rather well between the concrete base and the bottom of the pier…. I assume this would be an excellent heat sink.
One other question is the durability of these miniPC with extreme temperature change… keeping the unit in an unheated obs in -20C winter and then cranking it up the +70 C might have a lot of thermal stress on the components over time. Any thoughts ? Cheers
You are right, if you can get it mounted properly, that would be an incredible heat sink that could work very well for you. We’ve seen similar results with other people mounting to sturdy brackets on their telescope with similar results. You are right in regards to temperature too. You may need to find a way to get the temperature up a bit. You may find that it helps to mount it in some sort of an enclosure , and or even nearby an dew strap that could warm the device before you get it running. All computer equipment does have limitations as it relates to temperature variations, just like any of your other equipment out in the observatory. Let me know what you try.
Great series! Not seeing the link for the heat sink you used?
I had forgotten to add it to the description! Refresh the page, it is there now. Sorry! :(
I have the Mele Quieter 3C. I noticed the bottom gets very hot. So I am planning to screw it to a 30mm losmandy plate when it arrives. I will apply a thermal pad or paste to the bottom then screw it on so the losmandy plate acts as a giant heat spreader.
Also according to Intel, 105C is the max temp for the N5105 so I personally am not concerned about damage should it operate in the 80's here and there, but keeping temps down is always good.
i'm not exactly sure but i looked up the celeron n5105 max temp and it seems to be 105 degrees celsius according to the intel page. wouldn't that mean that with 80 or even 90 degrees, it would still be quite far away from taking damage?
I had the same question, its listed on Amazon as 105c being its max operating temp, also its supposed to come with a Vesa mount which would imply it should be safe to run it vertically.
3:20 I have been using pc sticks and ultra mini / pocket computers for 4 years now for my astro. I just got the MeLE Quieter 3c as I thought the format was nice - also very similar to my lenovo n90, the cpu was adequate and with a lower TDP.. but it's not that it's hot, it is SUPER hot to the extent I can barely touch it ! And mind you, I wasn't doing any processing, I was litteraly just installing softwares to try to test it. And if the solution is to double the size by putting a heat sink (6:50), then I don't see the point. 12:40 I do confirm that indeed even when turned down, it stayed at ~80° for probably 5-10mn. My goal was to add a M2 SSD for planetary imaging as you need Tb of data for that.. But I am afraid that will just burn at this stage.
The other issue is.. Windows 11. The MeLE with 16gb of RAM and a better cpu is effectively slower than my pc stick J4125.
I want to re re update my test with a bigger heatsink 100x150mm, same area of Mele Quieter 3HDQ which is is the bigger brother of 3Q/C. I've got shocking results with this heatsink with a defeat of 15 degrees on my usual temps. Even if the model of this video is less bigger i suggest go for an heatsink with same exact size of Mele top to improve the heat transfer, results arr shocking for just an aluminum heatsink put on top. Take note if you use a thermal tape will insulate a bit but overall the improvement with little price is totally worth it.
Agreed! I was also shocked with the results after just sitting it on top. It almost immediately started to drop the temp. The only down-side I have seen is that it can negatively affect the wifi performance.
Thanks for sharing.
I use a male 12v 5.5x2.1 mm --> USB C power cable that's about 6 inches long. It connects a 12v female terminal on my battery unit directly to the USB-C input on the Quieter 3.
Also, I use a 128GB XDSC card to store images and then, since it can be removed quickly without opening the case, I move the little data card to a card reader on my main PC to load and process the images. Do you know if adding an NVME drive changes the power consumption of the Quieter PC compared to the built-in storage+XDSC? Did you do any tests to see if the (albeit slower) built-in storage was up to the task of keeping up with video capture? I don't do planetary or solar; for DSO the XDSC option works fine and is very convienent for me.
Good call on removing the stickers.
Thanks for your hard work and video toutorials.
The power consumption of that drive doesn't seem to add much if any additional overhead. Even under my high load, the Q3 was consistently at ~8 Watts, which at ~12V, is around 0.8Amps of draw (with the NVMe in use). You can go back to my video 1 from my PC performance testing to see the eMMC vs NVMe speeds (maybe a week or 2 old video now). For DSO, eMMC is ok. But for planetary, Solar, Lunar, etc higher frame rate captures, the system was buffering disk writes on the eMMC but never on the NVMe. On the stickers... ya, weird... I know. :) LOL
Scott, if you acquired your cable via the Internet, can you please post a link?
So I got the recommended heat sink today and its currently sitting on top of my MeLE 3 - temp is 38-40C with my 26m in Sharpcap running in a test shot, cap on the telescope, 1600x1200, cooler running to -5C, Mono16 ULN mode. Current load is 8% on Core 0. If I remove the sink... 40-42C mark and this is nothing else running apart from Windows. So the Sink works. Whats the best way to get the sink onto the body work? Thermal paste is great for flat tiny CPU surfaces... how will it affect the bumped large surface area of the pc? Thanks for the video! Ok the temp is now 47-55C. SC off - idling at 43-44C.
Thank you for this very informative video Chad ! Should we be concerned by the weather proof of our outdoor computers ? I mean even if there is no rain at night when I take astrophotos, in the morning I often find my gear soaked with water due to humidity. I rarely see astronomers protecting their connectors or mini pc from humidity or light rain. (Not speaking about the water sprinklers in the garden... yes... i it happened to me 😱)
When I was teenager, I was a radio controlled model car enthusiast. We used to protect the radio transmitters in the car by putting them inside party balloons.... yes we are speaking about tiny gears :-)
Do you think it is a matter ?
I wouldn't think we would have a problem with condensation forming on these smaller fanless systems. Condensation will form when warmer air meets a cooler surface but in our case we have a warm to hot surface on the pc that is warmer than the air. Unlike a telescope that is pointing up into the cold dark sky, in that case, the telescope loses heat to the sky and as it cools and approaches the ambient air temp it will have a condensation issue. To avoid this with scopes, we use heat straps to generate heat and remain above the ambient air temp... with our pc, we use the cpu to heat everything as an indirect benefit. As far as sprinklers go, maybe an umbrella, but seriously, I have used a plastic container but make sure it can vent enough to not allow the heat to build. It's a balance. :) FYI, I did a science-y video on dew prevention if you are interested. ruclips.net/video/fNCqcC54NUw/видео.html
@@PatriotAstro thanks Chad 🙂 very informative as always.
Great video, thank you! May I ask, what was the temperature of the surrounding during your test runs? Clear skies!
Sure, it was a very hot day in Atlanta, GA. Temp was 97F(36C). I think we are focusing on outdoor air temperature too much though since even a cooled computer will run in the 50-60+ C range which will always be hotter than the surroundings which will actually help to cool our computer. :)
I don’t use them for astronomy but I’ve had a quieter2 for months and just picked up a quieter3. They do get hot but I have extensive monitoring using node red and I haven’t seen any alarming temps.
Nice update! thx!
Happy to do it! Hope it gave you information you were looking for
I understand that Mele designed the top of Q3 with a plastic top to facilitate WiFi transmission through the case. If the heat sink is used that would seem to impact the WiFi correct? Have you tried using the heat sink in the field and what is your experience with WiFi connectivity?
It can definitely shorten your Wi-Fi range. Typically in the field that isn’t a huge issue because you can be close enough to your scope, it may be more problematic at home if you set up far from the house.
@@PatriotAstro Yes, I just added a Mele to my observatory with the intentions of replacing my laptop. The Mele Wifi doesnt have the range of my laptop and with the heat sink on top I'm getting wifi drop out and loss of RDP.
I use a usb-c to 5.5x2.1 cable on my ecoflow river battery with my Mele Quieter3Q, runs fine. Still I got an issue with it - sometimes it pauses guiding for a few seconds and I still have no idea why. The NVME (WD blue 3gbps read and write) is kind of dissapointing, doesn't feel to run faster than with the stock emmc. So at the moment I am back at my trusty laptop.
I wonder if you have a driver conflict or something in there? Hmm. It could explain your guiding pause, apparent drive perf, and maybe some other system issues. Hoping it is just software and not a hardware issue though since that is far easier to solve.
Hey Chad - Seem to be having issue with running The Quieter 3 off the battery (through the Pegasus UPBv2). I'm suspecting that it has to do with the cable from the UPB to the Mele that provides power. I seem to remember something about specs for the cable - have you been having any issues? When I plug directly into 120v using their power block, no issues.
Are you getting any power to the device? Is it running but then failing (eventually)? Is the power button lighting up, but it won't power on? It could be the cable. I've seen some of these style cables that state they are PD power only and prevent reverse current flow. I'm not sure how they are accomplishing this BUT many of the 12vDC to USBc PD cables I've seen are designed to have the electrical 'load' on the opposite end. They are expecting the power source to be on the USBc side and the 12v DC connector to be on the 'load' side. We need to flip that in our use case and PD designed cables may prevent that from working.
@@PatriotAstro It may have been the fact that I wasn't using the "always on" power output from the UPBv2. I ran again last night strictly of battery and from always-on power and seemed to work much better. The original symptom was that the Mele would randomly power itself off - or, I guess, power was not being delivered properly to the box. I'm going to try another couple of tests - am interested in finding a proper (longer) USB-C to 2.5mm PD cable at some point.
@@darknight_astro Did you solve this issue?
@@divye.ruhela Yes - made sure all the cables were to spec - wire gauge is important.
@@darknight_astro What wire gauge is needed?
Thank you so much for these videos! I´ve learned quite a lot :) I was wondering whether anyone here has some advice on how to weatherproof these though. Since I plan on leaving my telescope outside overnight and remotely controlling it, I´m a little concerned about rain or snow.
Unless you have a dome or a rolloff roof type observatory, which would protect all of your equipment, there’s probably not a lot of options other than being vigilant with the weather report. If you do go the route of a rolloff roof or a dome, then there are ASCOM safety monitor solutions that can use sky conditions, weather forecasts, and even rain sensors to close the domes or roof automatically when the weather change is detected. Otherwise, it’s a bit manual.
Could you answer, why did they put a visa mount on it, if its only designed to be lade flat, as you seem to think?
They had told me it provided optimal venting when laying flat. The vesa mount is so they could compete with other vendors in the TV space, specifically for use cases where the system would provide digital signage via tv screens. (Menu's at fast food restaurants, conference center wall displays for schedules, airport flight info screens, etc that are lower power use cases.). Depending on your ambient temperature, etc you may in fact find mounting it vertically is fine, but the best venting is horizontal.
Dude. This thing gets hot like hot hot. 90c to F = 194F. Im not saying thats bad - this thing checks all the boxes for an astro PC but I was not prepared for how hot it gets haha. Now, thinking back, the case is an actual heatsink with no fan so.. I just unboxed it, installed an NVME, reloaded Windows and let it do its thing with updates. I can hold it for like 8 seconds before I have to put it down. I can boil macaroni noodles - pull one out with a spoon and drop it in my hand without burning myself. This thing is about that hot. I really like it but dang - its hot. And yeah - thermal tape and all that is perfectly applied. Someone more smarter than me could 100% rig something up to eliminate the need for a dew heater and utilize the heat from this instead. Just saying. Thanks for the reviews.
Fanless systems do get very hot, or at least can when they’re running hard like processing images or running a Windows update for sure. But they definitely stay within specifications and aren’t going to damage any internal components. Other than maybe your hands. Let me know if you cook an egg on it though I’d love to see the meal outcome. :-)
I put a Crucial 1TB NVMe M.2 solid state drive in my Quieter3, I noticed that when used the heatsink tape, it doesn't come in contact with the case, it's not thick enough. So my question is does it need to contact the outer case in order to do any good? Do I need a thicker heatsink tape? what are your thoughts on this. I have removed the stickers from the Quieter3 case as you recommended and I also bought a large external heatsink to mount on the top of the case. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I was able to get the NVMe drive loaded with Win11 and it is the boot drive, all is looking great at this point. Thanks for your instructions on getting this done.
Yes it will need to contact the case to dissipate the heat. You should use a thicker thermal pad, the included one is 0.5 mm thick so at least 1mm.
As Maestro says below, contact is key to thermal transfer.
Great video! I'm wondering if there would be a significant core temperature drop if the ambient temp was something like 70 vs 95. So the heat sink may not be needed. Thanks!
In this case, and with this particular fanless cooling design, I doubt it would matter. The surrounding ambient air temperature will always be lower than the core temperatures, and thermodynamically, heat transfer is from high to low. Two materials undergoing a heat transfer are trying to reach equilibrium, but in our case, one of the materials is the surrounding air which will never meet the processing temperature and always be lower. (Unless you enclose the space the computer runs in and create a closed system where the surrounding air temp could actually rise. Plus, the highest recorded air temp on earth was ~57C in Death Valley and even that is lower that the CPU temps we experience.) Because air temps are lower than our CPU temps, I don't think it matters. BUT, don't confuse this design with fan based designs. Those designs require air flow and often have an expectation within the design about the temperature range of that airflow. The fan can increase or decrease the RPM but if the ambient air temperature is too high, the cooling system can meet its goals. I will also add at the end here that the MeLE system did stay under 80C while at load without the heatsink so it does seem like you can run it without the heatsink, and only really need to add one if you prefer to run it at lower temps or have concerns based on your mounting of the box, etc.
Thanks Chad! Excellent info.
Finished a fanless system and travel router. Found the temperature was getting too high. Amazon sells 40 mm usb powered fans. I ordered one. I already tried a heat sink but I didn’t see much help
I am considering the MeLE Quieter 3C computer. I would like to use it for solar imaging but am concerned about the heat issue. I live in southern AZ where summer temperatures can consistently exceed 100+ degrees. As was mentioned in some comments here, the heat sink could affect WiFi capability so I was looking at possibly using a small USB fan that I could stick on the MeLE to keep it cool. It seems like one person did that. Is that a possible good option?
Possibly. I’m not so sure I would stick a fan to it so much as run air across it. 1 or 2 fans that draw a stream of air across the unit. Direct sunlight avoidance is the real key. Keep it shaded.
@@PatriotAstro Thanks. Will have to figure out how to configure something like that.
It could be difficult to find a place to position a fan, plus I would be blowing hot air over the mini. What if I have the fan on the mini blowing out and extracting the heat off the mini?
@@johndwyer1095 it’s more about moving air. And having good airflow. Plus the air you are moving across the unit is still a good deal cooler than the unit itself so thermodynamically the hotter temps will flow towards the cooler as far as heat transfer goes. Find my email address on the About page of my channel and send me an email. I just got a reply from MeLE tech-support about the operating temperatures of the units. I can send it to you.
@@PatriotAstroI ended up getting the MeLE Mini PC Overclock4C with fan as that became available late last year.
Great info.........What form of attachment ( thermal tape/epoxy?) would you suggest for the heat sink to the top of the Mele? I am using an Mele 2 with the J4125 processor and finding significant temperatures like 90 degrees if running Sharpcap or Stellarium so the Heat sink looks like a must. I guess would either need to be a thermal epoxy or Tape but I have no experience with the performance or adhesion. Since the scope will rotate during the night the sink needs to be reasonably adhered to the Mele PC. Interested in your thoughts
Ya, it's tricky for sure. Thermal tape would be nice but it depends on the tape you get and its ability to hold a ~250g heatsink through the easy movement of the slewing mount. Most uses of thermal tape are for smaller heatsinks, but it isn't out of the question. Thermal epoxy/glue may be a better choice but can get a bit messy and needs plenty of time to cure. Yet another option would be to use a mechanical solution like a z-clip. This is often a wire that runs down through the middle fins and clips at both ends to hold it in place. It can be used with paste/glue/tape as well. The problem with this solution is that it is typically engineered to fit for the use case, BUT I don't see why something couldn't be worked out similarly. You could put a thin layer of metal/wood/lexan under the unit with 2 holes at the end and use that to fasten a makeshift clip at both ends of the sink to hold it tightly in place compressed against the top of the unit. (Or, effectively, just tie it on to the unit with a metal wire or 2, I'd still combine it with tape or something as well.) This is all likely more work than you were hoping for. :) So, maybe a well cured thermal epoxy, or and I know no one wants to hear this, moving the unit down off the scope with a hub as a replacement and one more wire (USB) running down to it from the hub. Oh, and when looking at your options, check to see if they publish strength numbers, like tensile strength, etc. It may be listed in MegaPascal (MPa) but 1MPa converts to ~145psi (pounds per square inch) so it is easy to sort out.
Great update. Did you had an MVE card inside during your temperature tests ?
and was it used as a system disk ?
Yes I did!
And yes it was the system disk.
Can you please provide a link to a thermal pad of the appropriate size for the heatsink you linked? Ideally one with thermally conductive adhesive on both sides. Thanks!
As a follow on to this question. I am going to assume you used a thermal pad on your setup since you recommended one in your comments above. Did you remove the peel off adhesive cover on both sides of the pad? Obviously you had to take the one off that sticks it to the NVME drive, but I don't know about the side that sits against the cover. If you stick it to the cover and to the NVME is it a problem getting the cover back off later? Thanks for any suggestions on this.
I used the pad that came with the mele for the nvme. I just found one that matched the form factor of the nvme stick.
I did remove the plastic from both sides and laid it in between the stick and case.
Great video!! What about imaging at -25°C like I often do here in the winter? Will I need to remove the stickers? 😁
:) good question LOL! Maybe the stickers are a winter coat?
@@PatriotAstro Seriously, I wonder if the cold will affect it. I guess I'll know in 6 months.
@@hael8680 I honestly do not know. I can’t find a minimum temperature for the CPUs or the system. I would suggest keeping it warm as once it gets running it will generate plenty of heat. The initial start in extreme cold could be questionable. I think even body heat would do the trick though.
I have no experience with the Quieter2/3 but i do use a similar fanless miniPC in my backyard observatory.
The average temperature is about -5°C throughout dec-feb with a few nights here and there below -20°C. I left my miniPC powered on 24/7 without failure, according to the temperature sensors on the CPU and motherboard the PC temp was usually around 15-20°C on a normal day, and around 0-5°C on the coldest days (this is when idle, however i did not have any power saving features activated). I have no idea how accurate these readings are at such a low temperature since it is not designed for those conditions, it might not even display readings in the negatives.
Unfortunately most consumer grade tech have a specified operational ambient temperature range of about 0-40°C so it is a gamble. Notable exception is for example PegasusAstro's Focuscube v2 which according to their specification is rated for -40 to +40°C, i do not think ive seen any other "cheap" astro gear with that temperature spec.
@ 100% right. There are fanless systems that can range through sub-zero and also extreme highs as a guaranteed operating range but those tend to be in the 'industrial' category. You can often find them still somewhat affordable but they will be larger and quite frequently have ports you dont need like multiple DB9 serial ports. In most cases you will be ok for some amount of cold below the published specification but you should pay attention to the system when well out of range for sure.
Is there no issue with the cable being rated for 3A@5V and using it for 2A@12V? Is there no risk of parts of it melting and causing a short?
Looking for a heatsink with fan system so I can convert it back into a Noisier 4C lol
is it ok if it is upside down as long as the correct side (with special material) is open to air?
Keeping the plastic top clear is key but it is also expected to be mounted such that heat can dissipate properly. This means that horizontal right-side up mounting is ideal, followed by sideways mounting, with the worst case option being upside down. But,… depending on your situation (other venting/breezes, ambient temperature, etc) it could still work but would need testing to be sure.
@@PatriotAstroSo mounting it on the telescope, which, for me was the whole point, means it will never be horizontal right side up. With the telescope parked in home position, the computer will be on a 45 degree slope withe USB ports on the low end. As the mount slews, the computer will end up pretty much on it's side and after a meridian flip it will be on it's other side. So where/how are folks mounting these?
You'll be fine. Unless you are imaging in very high heat or direct sunlight (unshaded unit) it is unlikley you will have an issue.@@jimc31415
What happens if you place two smaller heat sinks instead of a bigger one covering the entire case? :D Just curious.
I just picked up a Quiter3 and am doing a brand new setup with an NVME drive. When running the updates it seemed to be running very hot. I installed core temp and found that it was consistently running at close to 100C just trying to download and install updates. I eventually got updates installed but it is still running hot. For instance it got up to 90C just trying to download and install chrome. Any idea what could be causing this? I’m indoors in 70F with the labels pulled off.
Just keep an eye on it for now to see if it averages out. Depending on how Coretemp is configured, you may be getting some isolated readings that are quite high or be looking at the high temp for the cycle. It may average out lower. Let me know how it goes. Just out of curiosity, did you put a thermal pad between the NVMEe and case cover?
@@PatriotAstro My concern is that the computer feels HOT when it has been sitting idle (just the login screen) for an hour. I did install the thermal pad.
@@dougwill756 Definitely keep an eye on it. I wonder if it is doing something in the background like large windows feature update downloads that may be keeping the CPU and WIFI fully engaged.
I have a Minisforum EliteMini GK41 4 USB3 Ports, 12V input, 8GB RAM and SSD. Perfect connections for Astro out of the box
Yep, another great fanless system. Comparable to the J4125 Quieter 2 but with an M2 SATA SSD. So many of these small form factor platforms that work great for Astro!
@@PatriotAstro what i liked is that it uses the normal 12v 2.1mm plug which the camera, filterwheel etc uses. used it for 2 years in a housing which is all year round outside. it also turns on when it has power...important for remote control..
broo it took you like 4 mins of usless talking just to get to the temps in the TEMPS chapter please stop rambling you are just listening to yourself talk at that point.
it's not always perfect, that I'll certainly admit. It is challenging to head off at a pace that everyone to follow. My assumption is that some people need it a bit slower with more explanation, and others can fast forward when needed. Even still, i make mistake. Overall, I hope the video helped.
there is such a thing as over explaining.....
Agreed. I’m guessing you don’t like too many RUclips videos. :) The majority seem to be created by people that aren’t trained content creators who have no script or guidelines, which allows them to go way off the rails. I do try my best in all of my videos to be as succinct as possible, but still keep it educational and enjoyable. I’m sorry I missed the mark for you this time.