Hello you savages. Get 5 Free Travel Packs, Free Liquid Vitamin D and more from AG1 at drinkag1.com/wisdom Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period from Shopify at www.shopify.com/modernwisdom Get up to 32% discount on the best supplements from Momentous at livemomentous.com/modernwisdom Get 20% discount on Nomatic’s amazing luggage at nomatic.com/modernwisdom (use code MW20) Here’s the timestamps: 00:00 Neil’s Perspective on Relationships 03:25 Co-Parents But Not Partners 11:23 Letting Go of the Pickup Artist Identity 18:38 Our Current Mating Culture 23:10 Priorities of the Black Pill Community 31:32 The Current State of Men’s Mental Health 42:36 Can You ‘Game’ Love? 50:17 Advice to People Failing to Connect 58:45 Three Steps to Resolve Your Past 1:08:00 Asking Why Emotions Arise 1:19:05 Chris’s Therapy Experience 1:25:50 Explaining Enmeshment 1:31:54 How to Know Who You Really Are 1:40:02 Becoming More Self-Compassionate 1:46:33 What’s Next for Neil
Tuning out / turning off when someone says something you disagree with is the reason why so few people are able to think deeply. Only watching / listening to people you agree with creates an echo chamber and there’s no growth in there. Some really good stuff in here once Neil settled in and relaxed a bit.
This is the bane of the Internet and modern society right now. I hope it improves sooner than later, but I reluctantly think it will get worse before it gets better.
I think that's beautiful. Think outside the box guys. As long as things are consensual and everyone is happy, there are no "wrong" ways to live IMO. Why judge so harshly?
Easy to judge Neil here, but I’d invite some of you to look at it at a deeper level. He and his wife no longer had the same chemistry after a long time of being together. He has the maturity to say that he still loves his wife and wants her to be the mother of his kids, whilst realizing that there is no longer potential for a long term relationship between them. “You’re a great mom and a great person, but we’re at different phases in our life now.” He’s not experiencing craving and attachment, but real love for his ex-wife, as a person. Most of us would get bitter, backwards rationalize a bunch of our behavior, etc. But this man can love another human being whilst not needing that attachment. I respect that a lot, personally. It may not be everyone’s preference or expectation for what they want in their life. But there’s seasons to life and life throws curve balls sometimes. Sometimes it’s not meant to be with someone else. Big respect to Neil. A nuanced perspective and life experience that many won’t be able to let land due to their ego and attachment to the external.
This comment section is so depressing. It makes me really angry that conservative influencers have deliberately turned young men into such arrogant, judgemental, dogmatic fools.
I think you’re right, he handled the break-up very well and actually stayed friends with his ex which is often just a platitude. that’s a lot better than bitterness, jealousy or trying to get revenge by “winning” the breakup. And I don’t think staying together for the kids is that healthy of a dynamic either, kids will pick up on that and some parents who do that might even end up resenting their children. Imagine how you would feel if your parents divorced the moment you move out, wouldn’t you ask yourself if they stayed miserably together for your sake and even resent them a bit for making a sacrifice you wouldn’t have asked for?
@@dant3175 You actually think it's 'cpmservative' influencers and people who are conservative making these comments on here? I would wager it's a broad spectrum of people from all sides of the political divide making negative comments. Those on the left who support modern feminism, both male and female. Men who can't get women on the left and arrogant on the right. Maybe step back, and stop seeing everything through your own your political biases
If you can get through the part about having a kid with his ex wife, this conversation gets awesome. Just some words I wrote down for myself: Concept of connected detachment - just brilliant Self compassion: talking to yourself like the parent you needed not the parent you have Unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments Thanks Chris! 🙏
The thing about his 2nd kid with his ex has people checking out too fast! It's a great listen and gets super deep and even has Chris open up about his therapy experiences... keep listening after that strange kid thing, you won't regret it
I appreciate Chris continuing to bring up the idea of love, as opposed to the "Mating Marketplace." I think the language we use about these things and the focus we have on the worst aspects is contributing to people feeling cynicical and hopeless. Maybe step 1 is changing the question from "how do I gain access to females?" to "how do I find love?"
The game was one of the first books I read out of high school. I even learned off many of the lines. The problem was that it taught inauthenticity and pretending to be someone you weren’t. Mark Mansons Models was an eye opener. Neil’s an awesome guy though , got to meet him in 2015.
most people never finished "the game" but it does conclude with, actually all these manipulation tactics are no substitute for being a better person and sorting your life out. or something like that.
@@sxshihab7258MM is in the mainstream now and probably doesn't want to have to relitigate the topic into today's environment. Rewriting it implies doing so might avoid the previous problem but I don't see how it would.
@@brianmeen2158Models is about being the best version of you and being comfortable in discomfort (rejection over and over). I thought it was the most valuable at the end of the day. Mystery will get your ass laid tho but it's a charade by design.
Neil said in the interview that you learn the rules and say the lines to women as training wheels until you get to the point that you can throw out the rules. Neuro-divergent people like Neil need the lines to get a handle on interacting with women.
The World's #1 Pickup Artist is not Neil Strauss. It's Mystery -- the legendary man that taught everything Neil learned about pickup. Strange that Neil Strauss owes so much of what he has become to Mystery and still hasn't acknowledged him in this interview...
I read The Game as well as The Red Queen and I don't think Neil is trying to disrespect Mystery - who knows maybe they did have a falling out but this is Chris's podcast so Chris was the one who came up with this title. It just sounds more appealing if you haven't read The Game and don't know the whole story Chris is just trying to reach people from a sales perspective it makes sense, right? I do love that you're pointing out Mysterys huge influence on Neils philosophy on dating. Good comment but at the same time I don't see these guys in competition with each other. Shout out Ross Jeffries, the pioneer of NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming.)
if you read the stuff from the people that were there and saw both mystery and style at their hollywood mansion peak times(i was on those forums at those times), everyone said that style/strauss was by far the best, as nobody could see the witchcraft he was pulling off but it worked every time, where as mystery was alot clearer for people to see what he was doing and you could somewhat try and replicate it or at least get into his mindset, where as strauss was functioning on a whole other level.
I think you missed the entire point. Neil doesn’t look backwards. He doesn’t think of himself as a pick up artist so why would he shout out to anyone that is a pick up artist? He isn’t attempting to advertise that community. The only thing is advertising is growth and curiosity.
Read " The Game" and loved how well it was written as Neil is actually an author by profession. The problem with guys who delve deep into pick up and make it their identity is that they genuinely aren't very impressive individuals, they are just good at at temporarily attracting women. I remember his chat with " natural" Tom Cruise who is definitely impressive and doesn't need to fake anything, he attracts women just by being himself. It's definitely better to just have the ability to pick up women then make it your life purpose.
@@flyaway6671 what do you think are the most important traits to demonstrating charisma that Tom cruise does. Eye contact Tone of voice Bosy language Etc
@@flyaway6671 Tom Cruise is 5’7. If he was a construction worker instead of a movie star do you think millions of women would still be fawning over him…???
Believe it or not, I read his book in high school and because of it I had my first girlfriend. Everything he laid out made sense and it still works to this day.
Although I agree with the continued service part.... he basically Jedi mind tricked his child by framework. "You get two houses" lol this man is playing with fire and trying to make it sound cool till someone gets third degree burns which will be the average person.
I will disagree with you.i follow him on instagram/ twitter for a couple of years now (probably more) and his threads are by far a huge school for good parenting. Like dude I studied psychology for 6 years and he still makes me think.
@@tsoupakis I know his page well and he isn't saying anything that hasn't been said before on several other platforms. Some you don't even need a degree to understand. Psychology is an interesting field, which I do enjoy, but even its practitioners can be challenged by outliers much like any science. He can still be a good parent but let's acknowledge that he starts from a position of study and manipulation (framing) but that is a tricky game we play as humans and many don't play that well for various confounding reasons. He admits that himself. Now primarily I hold concerns about his situation with his ex-wife. Glad he has managed a way to make it work but let's not push it. That's why he was uncomfortable talking about it 😂
I couldn't agree with you more. This guy is a master manipulator - perhaps he is not even particularly aware of it himself but his manipulates others to control the narrative. This narrative is that is he is great parents - he had a great marriage and a great divorce. But he maintains this by making this the narrative - make your kid think that is it cool that he has two houses rather than let him have an authentic reaction to the news of his parents separating. Good parenting is allowing your children to feel what they feel about this change rather than to make them feel a certain way. He is gaming his child the same way he gamed women. Good luck to him - but I don't think this will work out as well as he believes it will.
@@missABR1 you sound bitter. You do understand that there is the possibility someone to have a healthy divorce. Right ? You do get the possibility that a person can be happy alone right ? I mean you are so sure in your statements that everything he say are lies, but , somehow this is what his wife also say and also what his friends say… I mean are you sure that he is liying ?
I read The Game back when I was in my early 20s, it was a fun read that gave me confidence in a way, not because I was able to put these things into practice but because I understood how powerful it can be to play on human psychology. I'm 38 now and (hopefully) a fair bit wiser in many regards. 3:30 into this video and this is the first time I've come across another person who had a second child with an ex partner that they weren't with at the time of conception. My example was a bit more haphazard than Neil's, we really wanted our first born to have a full sibling from the same two parents and, in hindsight, we don't regret it, but I doubt we'd go through it a second time. Respect to Neil, he sounds so well balanced and thoughtful when he speaks.
1:47:00 what bothers me about Chris is lately he swerved every interview to the dating crisis. In this talk Neil mentions reading classical literature and interviewing a Russian agent who used techniques like what he wrote about in the game, I would have been more interested in his perspectives on those.
@@themacocko6311 no, we can hear people wax eloquent about male dating issues anywhere. What we could hear unique to him is how the Russian agent uses techniques like the ones he popularized.
It’s telling how so many have this viewpoint. Who gives a fluk about his private life when it’s not hurting anyone else. You want to automatically miss out on a unique life experience of stories because of getting triggered astonishingly easily inside of 5min 😂..adapt
we are losing healthy examples of what a model relationship or family looks like, to the extent a royal family has value, is the extent that they are able to model what a functional family looks like.
You and I don't know shit about what goes on in other families. So much happens in private. Which is why it is ridiculous to base your relationship or family on what the Royal Family does in public.
@@J77199 by telling the truth, telling people they should tell the truth and helping them to be better? Sounds like a heck of a bs artist doesn't it...
@@segueoyuriHe can't admit he does not believe in God because he loves money and his employer is Daily Wire. He used to be able to talk about important the Left are. But he lacks the integrity to do that now. And is a bit thick or a liar if he cannot talk about the value of environmentalism, animal rights and ethics. So yeah JP is the ultimate bs grifter, giving clueless opinions on things like Ukraine and things he lacks knowledge of. He often makes up psychology as he goes along.
I read the Game and never understood Neil's appeal. What really broke the pick-up artist spell for me was when Neil was preaching in a video about how men need to work on having a masculine-sounding voice. Meanwhile, he was still speaking in the same weaselly-sounding voice that he always has. That's when I really realized that these fuckers weren't practicing what they were preaching. It might not have started as a grift, but it became one very early on. I don't think Neil has learned his lesson. He got older, didn't want to put in the work to improve himself, and is pivoting to a different lane.
@@brianmeen2158 Many years ago Strauss wrote a whole book where he essentially disavowed The Game in great detail. Beyond addressing his claim to fame, it wouldn't make much sense to focus too much of the interview on something several books and years into this guy's past.
Doesn’t NS seem like a humble guy? He knows that he wants things, what he can do, but seems totally aware that there’s so much he can’t do, doesn’t wish to do, that others want and do those things and that’s ok. I really love that.
Parentification is when there is a role reversal between parent and child. The child becomes responsible for meeting a parent’s needs. Enmeshment is when there are blurred, weak, or no boundaries between individuals in a family. In enmeshed families, autonomy is not allowed. Kids who grow up in enmeshed families, grow up and become over reliant on needs their parent’s approval to make life decisions.
if you detect manipulation but the person is not being upfront about their interest or intentions, then it is dark and they are insecure. if the person is upfront about their intentions, they are secure.
I gave this one a few chances and gave up about a third in. This has the vibes of someone out of touch, especially with majority of society. I barely heard any wisdom spoken but more of a selfish take on the questions. Not a good pick for an interview with a channel like this.
@@brianmeen2158 Also his view on judging his own books prospectively instead of retrospectively. When releasing he's confident that the quality of the book was the best that he himself could produce at that time, and no reason to later on dwell on the things you could've changed in hindsight
I enjoyed this conversation. Don't have to agree with evrything to have it stimulate my own thinking. Thanks Chris for doing this steam roll of interviewing interesting people.
@@mcpartridgeboy both Owen and Neil have children with woman they are not in a relationship with. They may be good for learning how to get out there and meet women but in terms of long term success with family they haven't been successful.
@@redman958 Not true, they chose to stay outside a monogymous relationship, they could easy gett one if they could, whats intereting is that i was heavily abused anbd manipulated by a woman and i realized because chatbot told me, and a lott of what she did was the same as piuck up[, im wondering if pick up is basically just abuse ! whats sad is ifg it is and i feel its at least similar that anyone not abusive like me because im autistic and dont know how to be even if i wanted to be is that you might not be able to get a gf without being at lewast a little abusive !
A great divorce and having another kid with the ex wife? And they are best friends? And the divorce was a positive experience? This guy is an idiot. If it is all so great then don't get divorced.
@@Pikawarpsthey work well as a team, they trust each other, they have similar values maybe and most importantly they both wanted another kid. They just got fed up of each other 😂 or being married even. Easier said than done finding someone else with all of the above criteria.
My thoughts 1. Therapy is absolute horseshit and especially so for men. Women love it because for them it's all about being seen, heard, validated. It's the desire to talk endlessly about a problem as opposed to actually dealing with it. If I have a problem that I can't solve and no one can offer me a solution I have zero interest in "feelings talk" about it. I abhor this therapy culture we've evolved into. 2. This NVC manner of speaking comes across as an effeminate method of communication like the indirect communication women (and therapists, for that matter) use. It feels manipulative. Just be direct and make your point. Say what you mean/ mean what you say. The world of relationships would be so much better if we could teach women to speak directly instead of changing everyday communication into some kind of gross therapy-speak. Even worse, this NVC redefines what violence actually is - something that has nothing to do with confronting people when they're wrong. 3. This idea that society seems to have adopted that everyone has "their truth". No! There's THE truth which people often have a different understanding of. Using Neil's example of a partner telling me I don't spend enough time with her when I clearly do is really no different than some schizo telling me that their brain is being spied on by a Frankenstein radio-control gangster computer god. I'm not going to sit there participating in their insanity as a means of placating them.
Yes, I understand that your truth is that there is only one truth. I don't really see that at being incompatible with someone else's truth that people can have different truths. One can subscribe to a monolithic model or a multimodal model. We don't all need to live in a skyscraper.
I'm genuinely perplexed at how the author of 'The Game' and 'The Truth', has such an uncomfortable, palpably anxious vibe. It makes the interview damn near unwatchable.
Enjoyable interview. Amazing insights and when they talked about traumas, attachment, self compassion and tools to help oneself to navigate the healing were invaluable.
I actually appreciate the having a child with his ex story. It goes to show that it's possible to transition people out of a specific role in your life without a grotesque display of dysfunctional emotion. It creates a space to think about how different removing a woman from a "partner" role is from removing a woman from your life completely. This is such an important thought exercise because it helps you create more realistic expectations that turn into a more appropriate reaction in a breakup, which is just such a highly likely event in everyone's life anyways, many of those with children involved. I guess it takes some self-awareness and definitely realizing how the Western religious framework for monogamy creates so much suffering when people stay in or hop out. Even evolutionarily speaking, the behavior exhibited by both parties in that breakup is SO ADAPTIVE that it lead to MORE offspring within a socio-cultural context defined by consent, enthusiasm and willing personal investment by all the involved. If you don't want to validate or believe. That's your problem. Who cares.
There is only a need for non violent communication since the initial communication is made 'violently' as you describe it. You shouldn't be making false claims, nor forever expect a lack of pushback for personal experiences. "i feel" is better than "you are". One is internally justified, the other is a claim that requires justification.
Thanks for the interview! I think it might have been better if we saved the big, personal questions about divorce and co-parenting for later--Neil still seemed like he was a little uncomfortable haha. But great to see that Neil is as rational and insightful as ever!
These RUclips comments are wrong about Neil Strauss. Rules of the Game still works today. And I'm currently doing the book again for nostalgia. You must read the details tho, so I made a video on the topic.
I think there is room for whatever type of family situation works for people. Good for them for being great co-parents. Sad that after all this time he still hasn’t found what he’s looking for.
This gets a "like" because I respect Chris and love the different view points he brings on. But this guy. This guy seems like a tool. I made it 45 mins in and just had to ask myself, "do I value anything Neil is saying" and my answer was "No" so I'm going to go find an older episode to occupy my time today.
36:30 The whole victim narrative thing. Strauss couldn't be more right and this is a point that should be at the center of any conversation about social justice and human progress. Victimization is a real thing. But victimization cannot be a quasi-religious thing or else it will lead to a perpetual cycle of tribal conflict. The goal of any society should be to rehabilitate both victims and perpetrators as best as possible and then MOVE ON!
It gets even more pathological when the victim status is not seen on an individual level but on a group level. It creates a sort of caste system where the members have no agency which is deeply demoralizing.
It's very telling that the guy who has use pickup manipulations to get women can't even get the mother of his child to be sexually attracted to him. Attraction is innate
Something about the flow of this conversation feels “clunky”. Neil so often says “yes great question and I’ll get back to that but first let me finish this thought”, but then goes on multiple other areas of tangents that feel too big picture. While I think the idea of progression in relationship is helpful, this did not connect for me.
Great interview, Chris. Some really great stuff in here once you get past the first few minutes (apparently most of the people in the comment section didn't, unfortunately). I loved reading The Game, and it was cool to hear how Neil's identity (and life overall) has shifted so much since he wrote that book. Keep up the excellent work.
This guy's philosophy is definitely *partially* to blame for how fucked up dating is now. "Game" is literally just simping. MIllions of men were trained to make interactions with women 100% focused on eliciting emotions from a woman. This was "the game" he and other PUA's talked about. Men were trained to not even care about their own needs or wants - it was all about female approval. PUA is a deeply insecure practice. Women were trained that men will continue to put up with whatever poor behavior they exhibited - as these men were trying to "win" the "game". Now - in present day - women expect men to cater to their every need - and men are totally disillusioned with the expectation that dating should be all about making the experience positive for the female. So many men have literally stopped trying Honestly, Neil Strauss sucks
@@jislaaikrockadopolis2198 It's not. This may be effective as a conversational tactic, but in the context of an interview, the goal is to elicit a perspective. Pivoting the question *before even addressing it* comes off as fishing for the interviewer's opinion. It's a people pleasing move designed to filter for the "correct" response toward a targeted audience.
@@everObvious >It's a people pleasing move designed to filter for the "correct" response toward a targeted audience. But that’s not what he did? He disagreed with Chris at one point.
@@Samuel-vw2wy I'd be happy to reexamine my take if you were more specific...maybe a timestamp, alongside a synopsis of how Strauss' Q-before-A led to a disagreement?
I'd like to say that I had no idea who Neil Strauss was at all until I started listening to this video. I didn't listen to the first segment too much because I felt a little uncomfortable about it but I might go back and listen to it later. But so far I think it is very insightful and I think he's brilliant. He does not at all seem like someone that I reckon he was in the past. I haven't actually looked at comments for Chris Williams interviews very much in the past, but looking at the comments I was very surprised because again, objectively, as someone who doesn't know who this person is at all, I think that he's making a lot of great points and bringing up ideas that I've never thought of just like other guests have in these interviews. And I think he's brilliant. So, I'm going to listen more and try to understand and find out my own opinion, but unfortunately now I'm a little biased since I read some comments. I'll try to put that aside. But I think that many people who are commenting negative things, and who are not really open to listening to him, I don't think that speaks to intelligence (if you're not willing to be objective and hear this person). But at the same time, if I started listening to an interview of someone who I've always really hated or thought poorly of I'm sure it would be hard for me to be open to what they were saying even if they were a completely different person now. I wonder if many of the people who are leaving negative comments are biased because they are well aware of his past and the atrociousness of his book The Game (which he wrote when he was a completely different person almost 20 years ago). Out of curiosity I only just looked up the book and tried to get more specifics on the kind of advice he gave, only just looked it up within the past hour or so. I would agree that it's terrible advice that encourages toxic behavior on the part of men. Anyway, never mind, so far I think he's very smart, and worth listening to and hearing his ideas and perspective. But I do think it's very sad that that book was so influential probably to a lot of men, and they may not have put a lot of thought into the advice and how it could seriously affect them mentally. Worse, how it would affect whoever they were pursuing mentally / emotionally too. Didn't think about whether the advice was healthy. Whether or not it was right or just plain wrong to do. Rather, I'm sure a lot of guys who read it, well at least maybe some of them, wanted to just feel/be attractive and have someone who liked them too. Seriously though: who can really deny that someone who's had such a unique experience like this and who has a positive attitude and seeks to learn now --who can deny that he would not have fascinating knowledge to share from his experiences? Considering everything he's been through? I mean do you only want to listen to and learn from the insights and treasures of normal people? Or even normal but also very intelligent, brilliant people? And/or people who never made terrible mistakes before? Hmm.. to each his own. Wouldn't be for me.
It is clinically fascinating but sad to hear how Neil is actively working so hard to go 'against the grain' of a traditional nuclear family. There is undoubtedly a 'best way' to conduct a family, backed by science, and incidentally, biblical. Praying for Neil to find people in his life that love him and speak truth into his life.
How can you be actively pro nuclear family if youre mister pickup artist who plays these chicks like a piano and then his nuclear family breaks apart and he gets divorced, and splits custody?
I actually thought he was a great guest with quality insights. I was also surprised at the beginning but being open-minded was worth it (like it almost always is).
Take it all with a BIG heap of salt. If you read the Game I think it's undeniable that he had some success, but there were a million different factors at play there, reflecting a particular place and time in mid-2000s LA. From memory a good third of the book was him trying to get with Courtney Love's guitarist. Also, there is nothing to suggest that he has practiced pick up for decades.
Enjoyed this very much as it unfolded, because it offers some great insights. It's interesting how the comments here are quick to judge the quest story. Chris is a great podcaster.
When you have great guests that are just easy to listen to and they just make sense as well as being informative. That is all that is important for your podcast. 👏👏
A friend bought me one of his books many year's ago and I remember thinking, I'm short, ugly, broke and shy and completely invisible to woman so what am supposed to do with this.
Casual sex is definitely a way to instant pleasure and gratification without a doubt. But it does not seem like a road to happiness or fulfillment in the long run and an orgasm goes just as fast as it comes, but love, trust and loyalty will cement themselves in stone and will prevail until a persons life ends in case both parties decide to fight for it.
Ah interesting interview, think Chris was very patient with Niel. Though in terms of insight into the world of pick up and dating, he's to outdated to be relevant to the current experience of men out there. Good historical perspective on what things used to be like though.
@@JanKowalski-th5re I haven't even read the book, but when I hear people who have talk about dating, they sound like they're playing StarCraft or something. It's ridiculous to me. It seems like some guys bootstrapped dating and then drew a lot of wrong conclusions based on their experiences. If you want to truly understand dating, just read the evo psych studies. Or read What Women Want by Geoff Miller and Tucker Max. Or listen to their podcast "The Mating Grounds".
This was painful. He was kind of a hero to me. A loser to top pickup artist, he showed me it's possible. But this interview just destroyed him for me 😢
I find the whole 'embody the qualities you want in a partner and they will come' a bit tiresome. Millions of us embody the qualities we want every day: empathy, caring, integrity, active, funny, charming, reliable etc etc. but still spend years alone as meeting a suitable partner just doesn't happen despite our best efforts.
Woo boy, that first 9 minutes... I'm speechless. As a man, even if I put my own ego and pride aside, I don't think an arrangement like that is what I would want to model to my sons AT ALL. It just feels weak through and through, as if Neil went along with it out of some kind of desperation to hold on to something with this woman. I don't know, maybe I'm just being judgemental.
Another non-verbal therapy thing that works for healing your trauma is called Biodanza. It looks like Hippies dancing but it actually gets you to cry, let go of your old persona and find a new happier one to be. I can recommend. Also, Psilocybin trips might have amazing healing power - if run in a safe and supportive environment.
Scientists have actually found people with lower intelligence shut down and stop listening if presented with something that conflicts with their worldview.
This comment section is filled to the brim with arrogant young men who seem to understand very little about life or love, but are extremely judgemental nonetheless. I find it sad. You guys should read some literary novels. Switch up your cultural input.
Going to add on to some others saying Owen Cook might be a good guest to have on. He's a very inspirational speaker who was the frontman for RSD for many years, which was arguably the most successful pick-up/dating coaching company in the world.
I was way put off by this dude. I didn’t make it very far into the podcast. The thing about his kid being happy about having 2 houses and having another kid with his ex wife weirded me out. I shut it off after the turkey baster thing. Guess not every podcast guest is a home run 😂
Basically, dude got baby trapped by the same women twice and he is also the number 1 pickup artist who left the game behind. GTFOH. Everyone on youtube is a relationship and pickup expert now.
what Style [sorry I can only think of him in those terms] pulled off in life is so amazing that Chris is just dumbfounded after his first complete statement and less than 5 minutes into the conversation hahaha
Neil's fixes/solutions/recommendations are for upper middle class people who have the luxury to be independent. Most his stuff wont work in a poor, interdependent eastern culture. He's overly individualistic. If everyone behave in that way, society would fall apart
I remember reading "The Game" back in the day and wondering after I finished it, if Strauss had realized that he had written a tragedy. Looks, from the first few minutes, that he has gotten close...
I like Neil. He is a gifted storyteller, has a fascinating mind, and is constantly self reflecting. Is he flawed? Absolutely, as are we all. Is he a role model? Definitely not. The Game was a deeply problematic book, and I think he acknowledges this. Is it a good idea that he turkey bastered his ex wife? Probably not, but then again who knows, it’s not for us to judge. He is interesting to listen to, just listen with discernment, as you would with anyone.
You know, whenever I see a post or a video and I get the urge to comment, I usually give myself a couple of seconds to think, “is this comment necessary?” “Is this comment purposeful?” And then (usually) 100% of the time the answer is no. But this one threw me in for a loop and I’m genuinely curious. He says that he’s created this relationship with his ex wife of five years equivalent to that of a sibling. That’s cool, go you. He then says he had a kid with her four months prior to his “de-anniversary” and it just leaves me to wonder what his thought process was. Same here Chris, when he said that he was having another kid with her AND the way it was done, I was shocked. I’ve never heard of anything like that pertaining to the point of the discussion. I just want to know, did it make him feel better that he didn’t stick it into his equivalent of a sister and that she did the insemination herself through a syringe? Furthermore, if your relationship is strong enough to have another kid outside of marriage, then how is it not strong to be married? I’m genuinely curious just as to how he views the world? Like I want to see what he’s seeing. Yes, a part of me is hating the thought of this whole thing, but at the same time I am curious. I still have an hour and a half to watch so maybe I’ll get some answers, but I thought this comment was one to be put out into the world.
My guesses are: - His wife got older and didn't satisfy his lust for sexual conquest but they have solid, supportive love foundations. - He lost the frame in his relationship and became besties and wanted to share that love/connection between them further. Either way, I feel a bit dirty inside after typing that out. Gonna go wash.
It's so pathetic for men to have to resort to all kinds of mind games and pretend to be someone they're not just to get women to tolerate them. If women don't like you for who you are, give up. Look at this guy, no amount of "game" prevented him from becoming a divorced dad. No amount of game will ever make his ex wife attracted to him or else she would be marrying him again.
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Here’s the timestamps:
00:00 Neil’s Perspective on Relationships
03:25 Co-Parents But Not Partners
11:23 Letting Go of the Pickup Artist Identity
18:38 Our Current Mating Culture
23:10 Priorities of the Black Pill Community
31:32 The Current State of Men’s Mental Health
42:36 Can You ‘Game’ Love?
50:17 Advice to People Failing to Connect
58:45 Three Steps to Resolve Your Past
1:08:00 Asking Why Emotions Arise
1:19:05 Chris’s Therapy Experience
1:25:50 Explaining Enmeshment
1:31:54 How to Know Who You Really Are
1:40:02 Becoming More Self-Compassionate
1:46:33 What’s Next for Neil
1:19 .......
😅 1:19 1:19
😊000p
00p😊😊😊
7:25 So proud of you that you kept pushing him about the baby! @chriswillx
Tuning out / turning off when someone says something you disagree with is the reason why so few people are able to think deeply.
Only watching / listening to people you agree with creates an echo chamber and there’s no growth in there.
Some really good stuff in here once Neil settled in and relaxed a bit.
Great point!
So valid. I really enjoyed the conversation. Was insightful.
I'm confused as to the point of this podcast episode. His voice betrays his discomfort/dissatisfaction with himself. So sad.
yeah took a long damn time before he relaxed.. I think many stopped listening due to his lets be real insecure voice haha
This is the bane of the Internet and modern society right now. I hope it improves sooner than later, but I reluctantly think it will get worse before it gets better.
i thought i had heard everthing,
9 minutes in,
go on....
you did what now?
his ex is also CRAZY beautiful too.
World's all-time greatest pickup artist used a syringe? Can't get my head around this.
@@dolcampb women aren't logical. You'd never be able to get around any of that. You're not supposed to either.
@@dolcampbit's almost like he was full of crap the whole time and can't be trusted...
Listening to him dance how his Ex-wife became pregnant was painful.
He didn’t even want to talk about it but hopefully realises no1 is bothered
When I heard "i'm having another kid with my EX wife" you lost me bro
Some psychopath thinking on his part
Same - anything he said after that lost credibility.
Same.
I think that's beautiful. Think outside the box guys. As long as things are consensual and everyone is happy, there are no "wrong" ways to live IMO. Why judge so harshly?
Thanks for the notice and saving me time on this one
Easy to judge Neil here, but I’d invite some of you to look at it at a deeper level. He and his wife no longer had the same chemistry after a long time of being together. He has the maturity to say that he still loves his wife and wants her to be the mother of his kids, whilst realizing that there is no longer potential for a long term relationship between them. “You’re a great mom and a great person, but we’re at different phases in our life now.”
He’s not experiencing craving and attachment, but real love for his ex-wife, as a person. Most of us would get bitter, backwards rationalize a bunch of our behavior, etc. But this man can love another human being whilst not needing that attachment.
I respect that a lot, personally. It may not be everyone’s preference or expectation for what they want in their life. But there’s seasons to life and life throws curve balls sometimes. Sometimes it’s not meant to be with someone else. Big respect to Neil. A nuanced perspective and life experience that many won’t be able to let land due to their ego and attachment to the external.
This comment section is so depressing. It makes me really angry that conservative influencers have deliberately turned young men into such arrogant, judgemental, dogmatic fools.
I think you’re right, he handled the break-up very well and actually stayed friends with his ex which is often just a platitude. that’s a lot better than bitterness, jealousy or trying to get revenge by “winning” the breakup. And I don’t think staying together for the kids is that healthy of a dynamic either, kids will pick up on that and some parents who do that might even end up resenting their children. Imagine how you would feel if your parents divorced the moment you move out, wouldn’t you ask yourself if they stayed miserably together for your sake and even resent them a bit for making a sacrifice you wouldn’t have asked for?
@@dant3175 You actually think it's 'cpmservative' influencers and people who are conservative making these comments on here? I would wager it's a broad spectrum of people from all sides of the political divide making negative comments. Those on the left who support modern feminism, both male and female. Men who can't get women on the left and arrogant on the right. Maybe step back, and stop seeing everything through your own your political biases
If you can get through the part about having a kid with his ex wife, this conversation gets awesome.
Just some words I wrote down for myself:
Concept of connected detachment - just brilliant
Self compassion: talking to yourself like the parent you needed not the parent you have
Unspoken expectations are premeditated resentments
Thanks Chris! 🙏
The thing about his 2nd kid with his ex has people checking out too fast! It's a great listen and gets super deep and even has Chris open up about his therapy experiences... keep listening after that strange kid thing, you won't regret it
I don't have a problem with him having a baby with his ex.
I appreciate Chris continuing to bring up the idea of love, as opposed to the "Mating Marketplace." I think the language we use about these things and the focus we have on the worst aspects is contributing to people feeling cynicical and hopeless. Maybe step 1 is changing the question from "how do I gain access to females?" to "how do I find love?"
Bro so good he even tricked his ex wife into having another kid with him 😂
It's called CHILD SUPPORT
He took Game to a whole nother level.
There you go. The ACTUAL biological imperative, with the Mommy of his choice.
The game was one of the first books I read out of high school. I even learned off many of the lines. The problem was that it taught inauthenticity and pretending to be someone you weren’t. Mark Mansons Models was an eye opener. Neil’s an awesome guy though , got to meet him in 2015.
most people never finished "the game" but it does conclude with, actually all these manipulation tactics are no substitute for being a better person and sorting your life out.
or something like that.
Models by MM is the best. I think he should rewrite it and release it again.
@@sxshihab7258MM is in the mainstream now and probably doesn't want to have to relitigate the topic into today's environment. Rewriting it implies doing so might avoid the previous problem but I don't see how it would.
@@brianmeen2158Models is about being the best version of you and being comfortable in discomfort (rejection over and over). I thought it was the most valuable at the end of the day. Mystery will get your ass laid tho but it's a charade by design.
Neil said in the interview that you learn the rules and say the lines to women as training wheels until you get to the point that you can throw out the rules. Neuro-divergent people like Neil need the lines to get a handle on interacting with women.
The World's #1 Pickup Artist is not Neil Strauss. It's Mystery -- the legendary man that taught everything Neil learned about pickup.
Strange that Neil Strauss owes so much of what he has become to Mystery and still hasn't acknowledged him in this interview...
Ross Jeffries is also ahead of this guy
I read The Game as well as The Red Queen and I don't think Neil is trying to disrespect Mystery - who knows maybe they did have a falling out but this is Chris's podcast so Chris was the one who came up with this title. It just sounds more appealing if you haven't read The Game and don't know the whole story Chris is just trying to reach people from a sales perspective it makes sense, right? I do love that you're pointing out Mysterys huge influence on Neils philosophy on dating. Good comment but at the same time I don't see these guys in competition with each other. Shout out Ross Jeffries, the pioneer of NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming.)
@@alchemical.fitnessRoss Jeffries is an insecure clown
if you read the stuff from the people that were there and saw both mystery and style at their hollywood mansion peak times(i was on those forums at those times), everyone said that style/strauss was by far the best, as nobody could see the witchcraft he was pulling off but it worked every time, where as mystery was alot clearer for people to see what he was doing and you could somewhat try and replicate it or at least get into his mindset, where as strauss was functioning on a whole other level.
I think you missed the entire point. Neil doesn’t look backwards. He doesn’t think of himself as a pick up artist so why would he shout out to anyone that is a pick up artist? He isn’t attempting to advertise that community. The only thing is advertising is growth and curiosity.
Read " The Game" and loved how well it was written as Neil is actually an author by profession. The problem with guys who delve deep into pick up and make it their identity is that they genuinely aren't very impressive individuals, they are just good at at temporarily attracting women. I remember his chat with " natural" Tom Cruise who is definitely impressive and doesn't need to fake anything, he attracts women just by being himself. It's definitely better to just have the ability to pick up women then make it your life purpose.
so if you want to get better at dating don’t bother and just become a handsome famous millionaire movie star.
Tom Cruise is a movie star which makes him a horrible example to use.
I think he means 33 secrets pua guy as natural Tom cruise 😂
@@flyaway6671 what do you think are the most important traits to demonstrating charisma that Tom cruise does.
Eye contact
Tone of voice
Bosy language
Etc
@@flyaway6671
Tom Cruise is 5’7. If he was a construction worker instead of a movie star do you think millions of women would still be fawning over him…???
Believe it or not, I read his book in high school and because of it I had my first girlfriend. Everything he laid out made sense and it still works to this day.
To keep saying “I’m fine with it” makes me feel like you’re not ok with it.
Although I agree with the continued service part.... he basically Jedi mind tricked his child by framework. "You get two houses" lol this man is playing with fire and trying to make it sound cool till someone gets third degree burns which will be the average person.
well put
I will disagree with you.i follow him on instagram/ twitter for a couple of years now (probably more) and his threads are by far a huge school for good parenting.
Like dude I studied psychology for 6 years and he still makes me think.
@@tsoupakis I know his page well and he isn't saying anything that hasn't been said before on several other platforms. Some you don't even need a degree to understand. Psychology is an interesting field, which I do enjoy, but even its practitioners can be challenged by outliers much like any science. He can still be a good parent but let's acknowledge that he starts from a position of study and manipulation (framing) but that is a tricky game we play as humans and many don't play that well for various confounding reasons. He admits that himself. Now primarily I hold concerns about his situation with his ex-wife. Glad he has managed a way to make it work but let's not push it. That's why he was uncomfortable talking about it 😂
I couldn't agree with you more. This guy is a master manipulator - perhaps he is not even particularly aware of it himself but his manipulates others to control the narrative. This narrative is that is he is great parents - he had a great marriage and a great divorce. But he maintains this by making this the narrative - make your kid think that is it cool that he has two houses rather than let him have an authentic reaction to the news of his parents separating. Good parenting is allowing your children to feel what they feel about this change rather than to make them feel a certain way. He is gaming his child the same way he gamed women. Good luck to him - but I don't think this will work out as well as he believes it will.
@@missABR1 you sound bitter. You do understand that there is the possibility someone to have a healthy divorce. Right ?
You do get the possibility that a person can be happy alone right ?
I mean you are so sure in your statements that everything he say are lies, but , somehow this is what his wife also say and also what his friends say… I mean are you sure that he is liying ?
I read The Game back when I was in my early 20s, it was a fun read that gave me confidence in a way, not because I was able to put these things into practice but because I understood how powerful it can be to play on human psychology.
I'm 38 now and (hopefully) a fair bit wiser in many regards. 3:30 into this video and this is the first time I've come across another person who had a second child with an ex partner that they weren't with at the time of conception. My example was a bit more haphazard than Neil's, we really wanted our first born to have a full sibling from the same two parents and, in hindsight, we don't regret it, but I doubt we'd go through it a second time.
Respect to Neil, he sounds so well balanced and thoughtful when he speaks.
Strauss was number 2, Mystery was number 1.
Nah brah Tyler Durden was the best
All children of Ross Jeffries
@@kylekermgard Nah, Mystery was Tylers mentor, Mystery was a natural....Tyler wasn't.
Julien was the best in my opinion
@@Awbskure3am i learnt a great skill from ross jeffries, which is being genuinely curious about the other person
1:47:00 what bothers me about Chris is lately he swerved every interview to the dating crisis. In this talk Neil mentions reading classical literature and interviewing a Russian agent who used techniques like what he wrote about in the game, I would have been more interested in his perspectives on those.
@@themacocko6311 no, we can hear people wax eloquent about male dating issues anywhere. What we could hear unique to him is how the Russian agent uses techniques like the ones he popularized.
Justified or not, I’ve never seen a 2-hour pod in which a guest disqualified himself so hard with an audience within the first 5 minutes.
It gets way better further in.
It’s telling how so many have this viewpoint. Who gives a fluk about his private life when it’s not hurting anyone else. You want to automatically miss out on a unique life experience of stories because of getting triggered astonishingly easily inside of 5min 😂..adapt
@@Fab666.If he doesn't want people to judge his private life, he shouldn't give an interview about his private life ...
I've noticed a lot of dating advice experts aren't in long term relationships.
What on earth are you talking about lol?
What a highly intelligent, articulate and thought provoking manchild.
Why call him a manchild?
Judgy
😅
THIS!
Spot on about men becoming all the more disenchanted with dating after learning the game
we are losing healthy examples of what a model relationship or family looks like,
to the extent a royal family has value, is the extent that they are able to model what a functional family looks like.
You and I don't know shit about what goes on in other families. So much happens in private. Which is why it is ridiculous to base your relationship or family on what the Royal Family does in public.
Which is the royal family of the USA? The Bidens? The Kardashians? Honestly you might as well pick a family from a sitcom…
Fuck i love that the show just starts.. no bullshit.. no dumb intro, just boom here’s an interesting place to get sucked in. THANK YOU
Paraphrasing Jordan P: How about No, I don‘t buy your bullshit
You forgot the listening part
I can imagine his voice as he says it. And you forgot "bucko"😂
Jordan Peterson is the biggest bs artists alive
@@J77199 by telling the truth, telling people they should tell the truth and helping them to be better? Sounds like a heck of a bs artist doesn't it...
@@segueoyuriHe can't admit he does not believe in God because he loves money and his employer is Daily Wire. He used to be able to talk about important the Left are. But he lacks the integrity to do that now. And is a bit thick or a liar if he cannot talk about the value of environmentalism, animal rights and ethics.
So yeah JP is the ultimate bs grifter, giving clueless opinions on things like Ukraine and things he lacks knowledge of. He often makes up psychology as he goes along.
I read the Game and never understood Neil's appeal. What really broke the pick-up artist spell for me was when Neil was preaching in a video about how men need to work on having a masculine-sounding voice. Meanwhile, he was still speaking in the same weaselly-sounding voice that he always has. That's when I really realized that these fuckers weren't practicing what they were preaching. It might not have started as a grift, but it became one very early on. I don't think Neil has learned his lesson. He got older, didn't want to put in the work to improve himself, and is pivoting to a different lane.
You can't change your voice at least not fundamentally. That is not a criticism you can really bring up.
@@brianmeen2158 Many years ago Strauss wrote a whole book where he essentially disavowed The Game in great detail. Beyond addressing his claim to fame, it wouldn't make much sense to focus too much of the interview on something several books and years into this guy's past.
@@EbonyPope yes you can, actors do it all the time.
Doesn’t NS seem like a humble guy? He knows that he wants things, what he can do, but seems totally aware that there’s so much he can’t do, doesn’t wish to do, that others want and do those things and that’s ok. I really love that.
this guy makes me feel not great inside when hearing his voice and cadence
yeah.. dude sounds completely broken inside
I felt completely the opposite, that he is a very skilled speaker.
In a world of empty posturing, genuine humility is refreshing.
lol another “vibes” critique
@@1970broncoman "Vibes" are what keep us churning out new humans.
Parentification is when there is a role reversal between parent and child. The child becomes responsible for meeting a parent’s needs.
Enmeshment is when there are blurred, weak, or no boundaries between individuals in a family. In enmeshed families, autonomy is not allowed. Kids who grow up in enmeshed families, grow up and become over reliant on needs their parent’s approval to make life decisions.
Parentification is probably a subcategory of enmeshment, where as enmeshment is not always parentification
if you detect manipulation but the person is not being upfront about their interest or intentions,
then it is dark and they are insecure.
if the person is upfront about their intentions,
they are secure.
@@tensevo And yet it's often the air of mystery that attracts.
I gave this one a few chances and gave up about a third in. This has the vibes of someone out of touch, especially with majority of society. I barely heard any wisdom spoken but more of a selfish take on the questions. Not a good pick for an interview with a channel like this.
@@brianmeen2158 Also his view on judging his own books prospectively instead of retrospectively. When releasing he's confident that the quality of the book was the best that he himself could produce at that time, and no reason to later on dwell on the things you could've changed in hindsight
I think he’s lying to himself in a lot of areas to convince himself he’s good with it.
I enjoyed this conversation. Don't have to agree with evrything to have it stimulate my own thinking. Thanks Chris for doing this steam roll of interviewing interesting people.
I like and respect Neil Strauss for raising the bar even more, we can’t see it yet, but he’s truly building for legacy.
There are many contenders for PUA GOAT.
Style brought us in, but he doesn't take the #1 spot.
You better have Owen Cook on here to give his side of the story on the Game LOL😂
owen is the master with women
I thought Owen swore off Pick-up and went the self-improvement direction...?
@@ilovejettrooper5922 He still pedals his pickup stuff every now and then
@@mcpartridgeboy both Owen and Neil have children with woman they are not in a relationship with. They may be good for learning how to get out there and meet women but in terms of long term success with family they haven't been successful.
@@redman958 Not true, they chose to stay outside a monogymous relationship, they could easy gett one if they could, whats intereting is that i was heavily abused anbd manipulated by a woman and i realized because chatbot told me, and a lott of what she did was the same as piuck up[, im wondering if pick up is basically just abuse ! whats sad is ifg it is and i feel its at least similar that anyone not abusive like me because im autistic and dont know how to be even if i wanted to be is that you might not be able to get a gf without being at lewast a little abusive !
A great divorce and having another kid with the ex wife? And they are best friends? And the divorce was a positive experience? This guy is an idiot. If it is all so great then don't get divorced.
The marriage wasn’t great but the relationship after it was. It really is not that hard a point to comprehend my man.
He sounds like he has used his own brainwashing on himself a bit too much.
@@Samuel-vw2wyif that was the case they’d get re-married. As is they can walk away whenever
@@Samuel-vw2wy It’s not a comprehension problem…lol
@@Pikawarpsthey work well as a team, they trust each other, they have similar values maybe and most importantly they both wanted another kid. They just got fed up of each other 😂 or being married even. Easier said than done finding someone else with all of the above criteria.
My thoughts 1. Therapy is absolute horseshit and especially so for men. Women love it because for them it's all about being seen, heard, validated. It's the desire to talk endlessly about a problem as opposed to actually dealing with it. If I have a problem that I can't solve and no one can offer me a solution I have zero interest in "feelings talk" about it. I abhor this therapy culture we've evolved into.
2. This NVC manner of speaking comes across as an effeminate method of communication like the indirect communication women (and therapists, for that matter) use. It feels manipulative. Just be direct and make your point. Say what you mean/ mean what you say. The world of relationships would be so much better if we could teach women to speak directly instead of changing everyday communication into some kind of gross therapy-speak. Even worse, this NVC redefines what violence actually is - something that has nothing to do with confronting people when they're wrong.
3. This idea that society seems to have adopted that everyone has "their truth". No! There's THE truth which people often have a different understanding of. Using Neil's example of a partner telling me I don't spend enough time with her when I clearly do is really no different than some schizo telling me that their brain is being spied on by a Frankenstein radio-control gangster computer god. I'm not going to sit there participating in their insanity as a means of placating them.
Yeah, you have it all figured out, dude. Lol.
Yes, I understand that your truth is that there is only one truth. I don't really see that at being incompatible with someone else's truth that people can have different truths.
One can subscribe to a monolithic model or a multimodal model. We don't all need to live in a skyscraper.
Never read a more small minded comment on this topic. You are way off and way too confident about your opinion.
Neil is my hero! Great books! Great journalist! Such an honest person. He saved my life! I owe him more than I could ever pay back!
I'm genuinely perplexed at how the author of 'The Game' and 'The Truth', has such an uncomfortable, palpably anxious vibe. It makes the interview damn near unwatchable.
Wouldn't surprise me if more than half of his conquests were three shades to the wind.
Enjoyable interview. Amazing insights and when they talked about traumas, attachment, self compassion and tools to help oneself to navigate the healing were invaluable.
Would love a podcast with Mystery as well!
Get Owen Cook On Chris
The GOAT of social dynamics and pushing past Autism
I actually appreciate the having a child with his ex story. It goes to show that it's possible to transition people out of a specific role in your life without a grotesque display of dysfunctional emotion. It creates a space to think about how different removing a woman from a "partner" role is from removing a woman from your life completely. This is such an important thought exercise because it helps you create more realistic expectations that turn into a more appropriate reaction in a breakup, which is just such a highly likely event in everyone's life anyways, many of those with children involved.
I guess it takes some self-awareness and definitely realizing how the Western religious framework for monogamy creates so much suffering when people stay in or hop out.
Even evolutionarily speaking, the behavior exhibited by both parties in that breakup is SO ADAPTIVE that it lead to MORE offspring within a socio-cultural context defined by consent, enthusiasm and willing personal investment by all the involved.
If you don't want to validate or believe. That's your problem. Who cares.
I mean we all know he is not a seducer at all , just a good writer.
There is only a need for non violent communication since the initial communication is made 'violently' as you describe it. You shouldn't be making false claims, nor forever expect a lack of pushback for personal experiences.
"i feel" is better than "you are". One is internally justified, the other is a claim that requires justification.
Thanks for the interview! I think it might have been better if we saved the big, personal questions about divorce and co-parenting for later--Neil still seemed like he was a little uncomfortable haha. But great to see that Neil is as rational and insightful as ever!
Having a kid with your ex wife?!? 🤮🤮🤮 This just sounds like an open relationship garbage heap to me. Yuck
They are Divorced.
I still haven’t learned to listen to the whole thing before commenting either.
These RUclips comments are wrong about Neil Strauss. Rules of the Game still works today. And I'm currently doing the book again for nostalgia. You must read the details tho, so I made a video on the topic.
I think there is room for whatever type of family situation works for people. Good for them for being great co-parents. Sad that after all this time he still hasn’t found what he’s looking for.
This gets a "like" because I respect Chris and love the different view points he brings on. But this guy. This guy seems like a tool.
I made it 45 mins in and just had to ask myself, "do I value anything Neil is saying" and my answer was "No" so I'm going to go find an older episode to occupy my time today.
36:30 The whole victim narrative thing. Strauss couldn't be more right and this is a point that should be at the center of any conversation about social justice and human progress. Victimization is a real thing. But victimization cannot be a quasi-religious thing or else it will lead to a perpetual cycle of tribal conflict. The goal of any society should be to rehabilitate both victims and perpetrators as best as possible and then MOVE ON!
It gets even more pathological when the victim status is not seen on an individual level but on a group level. It creates a sort of caste system where the members have no agency which is deeply demoralizing.
@ChrisWillX DUDE, Amazing Episode! Love Neal's Perspective. Thanks So Much For This One. 🙌
This guy didnt leave the game, he changed the perimeters hes playing by since he got old. He is having a kid with his ex wife. That is some dark shit
It's very telling that the guy who has use pickup manipulations to get women can't even get the mother of his child to be sexually attracted to him.
Attraction is innate
that makes no sense, she was attracted to him which is why they got married.
@@Samuel-vw2wydon’t feed the trolls.
Someone commenting with that bitterness is either with no knowledge or with a lot of anger..
game still works
He cheated on her.
Something about the flow of this conversation feels “clunky”. Neil so often says “yes great question and I’ll get back to that but first let me finish this thought”, but then goes on multiple other areas of tangents that feel too big picture.
While I think the idea of progression in relationship is helpful, this did not connect for me.
Great interview, Chris. Some really great stuff in here once you get past the first few minutes (apparently most of the people in the comment section didn't, unfortunately). I loved reading The Game, and it was cool to hear how Neil's identity (and life overall) has shifted so much since he wrote that book. Keep up the excellent work.
I listened for about 15 minutes (I forced myself for the last five minutes) then asked myself "Why am I listening to this?" Moved on....
You lasted longer than me.
This guy's philosophy is definitely *partially* to blame for how fucked up dating is now.
"Game" is literally just simping. MIllions of men were trained to make interactions with women 100% focused on eliciting emotions from a woman.
This was "the game" he and other PUA's talked about.
Men were trained to not even care about their own needs or wants - it was all about female approval. PUA is a deeply insecure practice.
Women were trained that men will continue to put up with whatever poor behavior they exhibited - as these men were trying to "win" the "game".
Now - in present day -
women expect men to cater to their every need -
and men are totally disillusioned with the expectation that dating should be all about making the experience positive for the female. So many men have literally stopped trying
Honestly, Neil Strauss sucks
When the host is describing his sensitive side, I can relate a lot.
Not even halfway through this and Strauss has at least twice answered a question by asking for Chris’ thoughts first?
Yeah, it's a sign of humility.
@@jislaaikrockadopolis2198 It's not.
This may be effective as a conversational tactic, but in the context of an interview, the goal is to elicit a perspective. Pivoting the question *before even addressing it* comes off as fishing for the interviewer's opinion. It's a people pleasing move designed to filter for the "correct" response toward a targeted audience.
@@everObvious >It's a people pleasing move designed to filter for the "correct" response toward a targeted audience.
But that’s not what he did? He disagreed with Chris at one point.
@@Samuel-vw2wy I'd be happy to reexamine my take if you were more specific...maybe a timestamp, alongside a synopsis of how Strauss' Q-before-A led to a disagreement?
@@everObviousTim Ferris did the same. Tim and Neil are friends.
I'd like to say that I had no idea who Neil Strauss was at all until I started listening to this video. I didn't listen to the first segment too much because I felt a little uncomfortable about it but I might go back and listen to it later. But so far I think it is very insightful and I think he's brilliant. He does not at all seem like someone that I reckon he was in the past. I haven't actually looked at comments for Chris Williams interviews very much in the past, but looking at the comments I was very surprised because again, objectively, as someone who doesn't know who this person is at all, I think that he's making a lot of great points and bringing up ideas that I've never thought of just like other guests have in these interviews. And I think he's brilliant. So, I'm going to listen more and try to understand and find out my own opinion, but unfortunately now I'm a little biased since I read some comments. I'll try to put that aside. But I think that many people who are commenting negative things, and who are not really open to listening to him, I don't think that speaks to intelligence (if you're not willing to be objective and hear this person). But at the same time, if I started listening to an interview of someone who I've always really hated or thought poorly of I'm sure it would be hard for me to be open to what they were saying even if they were a completely different person now. I wonder if many of the people who are leaving negative comments are biased because they are well aware of his past and the atrociousness of his book The Game (which he wrote when he was a completely different person almost 20 years ago). Out of curiosity I only just looked up the book and tried to get more specifics on the kind of advice he gave, only just looked it up within the past hour or so. I would agree that it's terrible advice that encourages toxic behavior on the part of men. Anyway, never mind, so far I think he's very smart, and worth listening to and hearing his ideas and perspective.
But I do think it's very sad that that book was so influential probably to a lot of men, and they may not have put a lot of thought into the advice and how it could seriously affect them mentally. Worse, how it would affect whoever they were pursuing mentally / emotionally too. Didn't think about whether the advice was healthy. Whether or not it was right or just plain wrong to do. Rather, I'm sure a lot of guys who read it, well at least maybe some of them, wanted to just feel/be attractive and have someone who liked them too.
Seriously though: who can really deny that someone who's had such a unique experience like this and who has a positive attitude and seeks to learn now --who can deny that he would not have fascinating knowledge to share from his experiences? Considering everything he's been through? I mean do you only want to listen to and learn from the insights and treasures of normal people? Or even normal but also very intelligent, brilliant people? And/or people who never made terrible mistakes before?
Hmm.. to each his own.
Wouldn't be for me.
I got to say, nice t-shirt. Their songs speaks at a level that is both deep, simple, truest and natural.
It is clinically fascinating but sad to hear how Neil is actively working so hard to go 'against the grain' of a traditional nuclear family. There is undoubtedly a 'best way' to conduct a family, backed by science, and incidentally, biblical. Praying for Neil to find people in his life that love him and speak truth into his life.
How can you be actively pro nuclear family if youre mister pickup artist who plays these chicks like a piano and then his nuclear family breaks apart and he gets divorced, and splits custody?
Wasn't really interested in listening to this BUT what an interesting human! His capacity to see things differently was really fascinating.
I actually thought he was a great guest with quality insights. I was also surprised at the beginning but being open-minded was worth it (like it almost always is).
Serious question to all the women, WTF!? How is THIS guy so successful in picking up so many women!?
Take it all with a BIG heap of salt.
If you read the Game I think it's undeniable that he had some success, but there were a million different factors at play there, reflecting a particular place and time in mid-2000s LA.
From memory a good third of the book was him trying to get with Courtney Love's guitarist.
Also, there is nothing to suggest that he has practiced pick up for decades.
He is smart, mature, and kind.
All you guys ticking boxes to make yourself attractive to women just seem thirsty by comparison.
Enjoyed this very much as it unfolded, because it offers some great insights. It's interesting how the comments here are quick to judge the quest story. Chris is a great podcaster.
When you have great guests that are just easy to listen to and they just make sense as well as being informative. That is all that is important for your podcast. 👏👏
A friend bought me one of his books many year's ago and I remember thinking, I'm short, ugly, broke and shy and completely invisible to woman so what am supposed to do with this.
Didn't you know? Women are most attracted to confidence! 😅
Casual sex is definitely a way to instant pleasure and gratification without a doubt.
But it does not seem like a road to happiness or fulfillment in the long run and an orgasm goes just as fast as it comes, but love, trust and loyalty will cement themselves in stone and will prevail until a persons life ends in case both parties decide to fight for it.
Ah interesting interview, think Chris was very patient with Niel. Though in terms of insight into the world of pick up and dating, he's to outdated to be relevant to the current experience of men out there. Good historical perspective on what things used to be like though.
The only change I can think of in that time is dating apps. I don't get why you would imply dating has somehow changed fundamentally?
Can you be more specific and give some examples why ideas presented in The Game are outdated?
Female psychology hasn't changed in the last 20 years therefore neither has the game.
@@JanKowalski-th5re I haven't even read the book, but when I hear people who have talk about dating, they sound like they're playing StarCraft or something. It's ridiculous to me.
It seems like some guys bootstrapped dating and then drew a lot of wrong conclusions based on their experiences.
If you want to truly understand dating, just read the evo psych studies.
Or read What Women Want by Geoff Miller and Tucker Max. Or listen to their podcast "The Mating Grounds".
@@ErikLiberty Those guys never understood female psychopathology to begin with.
Epic podcast. Would be curious to see Neil speak on IFS - internal family systems therapy.
His kids are going to be so messed up.
Will you be disappointed if they turn out just fine?
This was painful. He was kind of a hero to me. A loser to top pickup artist, he showed me it's possible. But this interview just destroyed him for me 😢
Why?
That’s too bad, because he actually seems like a really good dude. Cool to see that a nerdy guy like him can do what he did.
What great did he acomplish split custody and a divorce? Did he even have a prenup?
Syringe in the bathroom (minute 8) is crazy.. Probably not taking advice from this dude
I find the whole 'embody the qualities you want in a partner and they will come' a bit tiresome. Millions of us embody the qualities we want every day: empathy, caring, integrity, active, funny, charming, reliable etc etc. but still spend years alone as meeting a suitable partner just doesn't happen despite our best efforts.
Woo boy, that first 9 minutes... I'm speechless. As a man, even if I put my own ego and pride aside, I don't think an arrangement like that is what I would want to model to my sons AT ALL. It just feels weak through and through, as if Neil went along with it out of some kind of desperation to hold on to something with this woman. I don't know, maybe I'm just being judgemental.
Another non-verbal therapy thing that works for healing your trauma is called Biodanza.
It looks like Hippies dancing but it actually gets you to cry, let go of your old persona and find a new happier one to be.
I can recommend.
Also, Psilocybin trips might have amazing healing power - if run in a safe and supportive environment.
3:22 And here’s where I checked out.
i know it’s super weird 😂
@@brianmeen2158 Nah
Scientists have actually found people with lower intelligence shut down and stop listening if presented with something that conflicts with their worldview.
What's weird about having kids? The old ways are dying. New family arrangements are gonna have to get adopted if the human race is to continue.
@@brianmeen2158 fr, people are so fragile
I was naturally a very positive person and my partner constantly accused me of cheating and never changed
🔥 @1:41:19 - "Most of us who lack self-compassion are being the parents to ourselves that we never had"
This comment section is filled to the brim with arrogant young men who seem to understand very little about life or love, but are extremely judgemental nonetheless. I find it sad. You guys should read some literary novels. Switch up your cultural input.
Going to add on to some others saying Owen Cook might be a good guest to have on. He's a very inspirational speaker who was the frontman for RSD for many years, which was arguably the most successful pick-up/dating coaching company in the world.
So much drama, though!
Good stuff. Will always reaspect Neil Strauss. One of my role models.
I was way put off by this dude. I didn’t make it very far into the podcast. The thing about his kid being happy about having 2 houses and having another kid with his ex wife weirded me out. I shut it off after the turkey baster thing. Guess not every podcast guest is a home run 😂
Basically, dude got baby trapped by the same women twice and he is also the number 1 pickup artist who left the game behind. GTFOH. Everyone on youtube is a relationship and pickup expert now.
I love Neil Strauss! Hope to get him on my podcast one day!
what Style [sorry I can only think of him in those terms] pulled off in life is so amazing that Chris is just dumbfounded after his first complete statement and less than 5 minutes into the conversation hahaha
I’d suspect his dating advice but the podcast was still beneficial for introspection
Neil's fixes/solutions/recommendations are for upper middle class people who have the luxury to be independent.
Most his stuff wont work in a poor, interdependent eastern culture.
He's overly individualistic. If everyone behave in that way, society would fall apart
I remember reading "The Game" back in the day and wondering after I finished it, if Strauss had realized that he had written a tragedy. Looks, from the first few minutes, that he has gotten close...
"#1 pickup artist"? 🤦♀️
So proud of you that you kept pushing him about the baby! @chriswillx
7:25
I like Neil. He is a gifted storyteller, has a fascinating mind, and is constantly self reflecting. Is he flawed? Absolutely, as are we all. Is he a role model? Definitely not. The Game was a deeply problematic book, and I think he acknowledges this. Is it a good idea that he turkey bastered his ex wife? Probably not, but then again who knows, it’s not for us to judge. He is interesting to listen to, just listen with discernment, as you would with anyone.
Never going to be able to hear this guy's name again without thinking, "Mr. Turkey Baster".
Chris, I relate to you! You should be your own guest and invite yourself to the podcast sometime :)
Peace & Love
I don't have a problem with him having a baby with his ex.
You know, whenever I see a post or a video and I get the urge to comment, I usually give myself a couple of seconds to think, “is this comment necessary?” “Is this comment purposeful?” And then (usually) 100% of the time the answer is no. But this one threw me in for a loop and I’m genuinely curious. He says that he’s created this relationship with his ex wife of five years equivalent to that of a sibling. That’s cool, go you. He then says he had a kid with her four months prior to his “de-anniversary” and it just leaves me to wonder what his thought process was. Same here Chris, when he said that he was having another kid with her AND the way it was done, I was shocked. I’ve never heard of anything like that pertaining to the point of the discussion. I just want to know, did it make him feel better that he didn’t stick it into his equivalent of a sister and that she did the insemination herself through a syringe? Furthermore, if your relationship is strong enough to have another kid outside of marriage, then how is it not strong to be married? I’m genuinely curious just as to how he views the world? Like I want to see what he’s seeing. Yes, a part of me is hating the thought of this whole thing, but at the same time I am curious. I still have an hour and a half to watch so maybe I’ll get some answers, but I thought this comment was one to be put out into the world.
Maybe he doesn't base his life on the Bible unlike you superstitious dudes.
What did you end up concluding my brother?
What did you end up concluding my brother?
@@ianhamilton639 Yeah, I literally have lived that experienced. Agree completely with you
My guesses are:
- His wife got older and didn't satisfy his lust for sexual conquest but they have solid, supportive love foundations.
- He lost the frame in his relationship and became besties and wanted to share that love/connection between them further.
Either way, I feel a bit dirty inside after typing that out.
Gonna go wash.
It's so pathetic for men to have to resort to all kinds of mind games and pretend to be someone they're not just to get women to tolerate them.
If women don't like you for who you are, give up. Look at this guy, no amount of "game" prevented him from becoming a divorced dad. No amount of game will ever make his ex wife attracted to him or else she would be marrying him again.
People get divorced. That doesn't make them pathetic.
There’s way too many ads in this video. Even though I have RUclips Premium this video got interrupted every 15 minutes.
No book his gripped me before and since The Game. Young me felt like I was learning a magician’s secrets when I read it.