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@@billusher2265 books that are good game books I’ve read. Mode one by Allan Roger Currie . Models by Mark Manson. The Setup by Dan Bilzerian and Rejection Proof by Jia Jiang. These should help you out.
I don't think it matters. Doing pickup is all about picking up, so if one pickup artist can make someone better with girls becasue of what he teaches and he does it faster, that is all we have to measure. I think ross is more about therapy then picking up girls, but I still think he would want to show that he is better at pickup then Mystery.@@ScorpionSuerte
ross is about therapy. which means he has to convince you that you are traumatized, you have to accept that belief, and then the therapy is a hallucination that cements the whole thing.
As someone who's pushing 40 and from a traditional culture, and got into PUA back in 2006-07 through David DeAngelo and of course all the other classic eBook and digital product stuff, here's my take: - Great to see both doing great, it's been over 10 years that I actively game, especially after going more Red Pill/MGTOW after 2015 from Tom Leykis radio shows, Paul Elam, Coach Red Pill, Sandman, Barbarossa, Stardusk... - Both of them are still stuck in the "old" paradigm, wokeness/MeToo/vicitimization/being part of an affected group... has completely taken over not just the West, but traditional cultures - Back then, people in general and women, had way less distractions in person, and certainly didn't have a device in their hand that feeds back narcissism and all their negative behaviors - The masculine/feminine dichotomy was well defined back then, now it's just a mishmash... women are far too masculine and men too feminine, the less said the better - These gambits and games don't work anymore, maybe on women over 45, because they are in the old paradigm, but definitely not the OnlyThots - Mystery though a Gen Xer, has a much better attitude in terms of both open mindedness towards learning, and humble when teaching, in fact he got pushed too much here, and should have pushed back and set boundaries with RJ -Ross Jeffries on the other hand, is a typical boomer from SoCal, who is obviously grappling with the far left SJW brainwashing, not to mention his Jooish shanda that he inserts into every conversation, he does not listen at all and has a far too NARROW point of view to understand anything beyond language Though I am thankful to both of them, because of RJ I learnt about NLP and from Mystery I understood evolutionary psychology, wayyy before video and social media took over society. Ultimately, this whole 2 hour spiel was just mental masturbation based on an outdated social paradigm. It feels like the whole society moved ahead, while these 2 stuck behind. Dealing with women in the 2020s and beyond, they don't respond to this anymore, even if they do, it's going to be shortlived and you will get damaged goods like single moms and women with BPD, histrionics, narcissism, dark triad/tetrad, cluster B and borderlines are aplenty.
@@HamletsMill25920 I'm not sure what you mean about mystery. What exactly about him is outdated? ACS and practicing presentational skills hasn't changed. Social proof hasn't changed. Going out into the field hasn't changed. if anything dating apps is producing nothing but discontent and was so extremely short-lived. They was just a flash in the pan. Also, it's very interesting name. What do you mean by Netty Netty?
You guys along with Strauss started an entire movement and helped millions of men make a better life for themselves. In that round about way you can die saying you changed the world. Bravo and glad to see you two so many years after reading the Game.
@@MegaasAlexandrosAfter having freshly read the book, this interraction really proved the animosity Ross had for Mystery whilst Mystery never really minding Ross to have truly happened. They might be more mature now but Ross's "shut him out" mentality is still there. Really cool to be able to witness this after having known the book for over ten years.
Having a debate of whether speed seduction is better than Mystery Method is like having a debate as to whether quantum mechanics is better than general relativity. now a unified theory, that would be something.
Mystery was a complete gentleman, even when he was asked by Ross to define something, and started, and then Ross interrupted Mystery even before Mystery finished his explanation, Ross would immediately come in and say "I don't know what this means, it doesn't make any sense to me." To give the one where he asked about status. And Ross completely insulted Mystery. I think Ross is frankly jealous of Mystery cause Mystery is so much more famous, and so much more respected. Ross treated Mystery like he was some kid that didn't know anything, passive aggressive through half the interview. Meanwhile Mystery was nothing but polite, and complementary, even when Ross totally would strawman an argument to make Mystery look bad, or at least to people who fall for Ross's stuff. If you can't understand what 'high status' means in terms of evolution traits, and procreation, than I'm sorry, you are an idiot... And Ross trying to insult Mystery by stating that 'high value' in terms of evolution traits didnt' make any sense, shows how much deeper mystery is. Mystery is basing his ideas off actual evolutionary behaviour, psychobiology, sociology, ideas like the Red Queen, which I bet if you asked both of them to explain, that Mystery would have no problem explaining it, while Ross would try to down play it as a real idea. Despite it being a very important idea in the ideas of how species evolve, ie "constantly must run to stay in the same place', etc. Where Ross is just acting like he knows it all, but is basing everything off stuff he just thinks he knows. If he thinks that Mystery hasn't seduced women in less then 7 hours he is again a fool. Mystery is talking about generally how long it takes to get to the point where a woman will want to seduce you where that woman has high value in terms of being attractive, intelligent etc. Anyone can find some bimbo who will sleep with a guy in the first 10 mins of meeting them, that's not something to brag about, that's something you better go to the clinic to get checked out often if that is who you are hooking up with....
As someone who's pushing 40 and from a traditional culture, and got into PUA back in 2006-07 through David DeAngelo and of course all the other classic eBook and digital product stuff, here's my take: - Great to see both doing great, it's been over 10 years that I actively game, especially after going more Red Pill/MGTOW after 2015 from Tom Leykis radio shows, Paul Elam, Coach Red Pill, Sandman, Barbarossa, Stardusk... - Both of them are still stuck in the "old" paradigm, wokeness/MeToo/vicitimization/being part of an affected group... has completely taken over not just the West, but traditional cultures - Back then, people in general and women, had way less distractions in person, and certainly didn't have a device in their hand that feeds back narcissism and all their negative behaviors - The masculine/feminine dichotomy was well defined back then, now it's just a mishmash... women are far too masculine and men too feminine, the less said the better - These gambits and games don't work anymore, maybe on women over 45, because they are in the old paradigm, but definitely not the OnlyThots - Mystery though a Gen Xer, has a much better attitude in terms of both open mindedness towards learning, and humble when teaching, in fact he got pushed too much here, and should have pushed back and set boundaries with RJ -Ross Jeffries on the other hand, is a typical boomer from SoCal, who is obviously grappling with the far left SJW brainwashing, not to mention his Jooish shanda that he inserts into every conversation, he does not listen at all and has a far too NARROW point of view to understand anything beyond language Though I am thankful to both of them, because of RJ I learnt about NLP and from Mystery I understood evolutionary psychology, wayyy before video and social media took over society. Ultimately, this whole 2 hour spiel was just mental masturbation based on an outdated social paradigm. It feels like the whole society moved ahead, while these 2 stuck behind. Dealing with women in the 2020s and beyond, they don't respond to this anymore, even if they do, it's going to be shortlived and you will get damaged goods like single moms and women with BPD, histrionics, narcissism, dark triad/tetrad, cluster B and borderlines are aplenty.
@@HamletsMill25920 Wow, thanks for this thoughtful response. It sounds as though you have done a lot of work as a guy trying to understand women and yourself. I admire that. I'm not sure I agree that these concepts are not for the present time because evolutionary biology has simply not changed in the fundamental ways that we understand regarding attraction. I would recommend a book to everyone (one I'm sure you've heard about), called "Seduction," by Robert Greene. Since this book traces thousands of years of seducers and seduction behaviors it is a timeless read, possibly the most well-researched book on the subject. What I care about at this stage of my life is to get into a solid, high quality relationship, and that means that I need to do the one thing, the most basic thing that IS timeless, and that is to 1. establish myself as a man, both in accepting me for who I am with all of my faults as well as abilities; 2. establish independence from my parents/family as a self-sustaining provider; 3. develop communication skills, self-understanding, and emotional self-control, and then do the last two things: A. Approach women through my fears; B. enter into relationships with them, and C. learn from these relationships with the end goal to find the one that I know will be my life partner.
Ross Jefferies speaks like a man who's made 10,000 awkward approaches, with only 3 successful. The fact that he has to interrupt and defend himself - when no one is challenging his methods is telling. Also, if you have to preface by swearing to God, saying you're not lying and swearing on random shit... You're probably lying
He says some interesting things but it's hard for me to like him because I don't like his style and his charisma.. one thing with mystery is he's put effort into every thing. Because I fully understand mystery method it makes sense to me.. I think Ross has some good techniques. I'd have to see what he teaches and practices but this idea but you do everything at once and it doesn't take very long. I don't understand how this stuff works and not interaction. I'll look into his stuff further but mystery s stop just makes sense. And I understand the psychology behind it.. why you do things in the particular order. It's the natural order that a naturally confident guy that sees himself as high value would act. That's what Ross doesn't understand he's saying that you can create value by getting the girl to experience these emotions by talking with her and that might be true. But there's a certain way that people act that value themselves. That's what mystery is saying. Because I'm a person that does value myself and I've lived this for years and internalized it I naturally act like a person that values themselves highly.
This really shows how superior the mystery method is. Whenever I feel like I've dropped off a bit, coming back to the 'process' is so important. Are you screwing up the open? Are you being attractive enough before qualifying? So do you need to work on A1 or A2 or A3? Are you jumping to C1-3 (so in essence saying: "what do you do?" etc) too fast...Are you trying to seduce before she's attracted and comfortable? To simplify that: Attraction: A1: How are you meeting her? Do you need to go to a different place/make a social circle? Go out with girls? And if it's just randomly on the street, what's your opener? (I do think it's best to have SOMETHING ready to say so you're not flustered but again, can just work on it). A2: Does she find you attractive? Do you need a better Tinder Profile if it's online. Do you need to look better? Do you need to flirt more before qualifying? A3: Qualifying - what are you geniinely looking for? Comfort: This is easy - just spending time or whatever, but are you doing this too early? Or skipping and talking about sex? Seducation: Are you brining up the 'offer' of sex, marrigage whatever smoothly and after attraction/comfort is built, or when are you bringing it up and how...
Disagree, seduction has improved a lot in the years. These guys are proposing approaches that may work, but are that not very natural and genuine -not for most guys anyways-
The old guy is such a boomer. I know small business owners like him. They’re obsessed with being acknowledged and they take it personally when other people get more acknowledgment than them. Especially if they’re younger. They can’t tolerate it and usually play a ‘quality over quantity’ card to square the circle in their heads
THIS is what got me into the scene originally. Masters like this. It's not merely nostalgic, although it is. These guys WERE / ARE better than whats been out there, all the demon spawns that came from them. This felt great.
I listened to JAL and my game completely suffered for it. the guy has sucked all the fun out of the game, and mystery brought it back with his performance approach. JAL just smashed out drunk, lies about literally everything, and his approaches are just quick flash in the pans that go no where and just scare everyone off
@@deadlylion_dz7063 You can't do both exact methods at the same time, obviously. But you can use elements of one in the other. Some of Ross's patterns might fit well into Mystery's attraction-building stories, for example. Or might be excellent in the comfort building stage. That might be TOO good, actually.
Ross seems too invested in finding flaws in Mystery's game at all costs which is fine because it allows Mystery to further explain and solidify the reasoning behind his method.
That's something I noticed too. I thought it was a little gem when Mystery told the story about Neil who said, Why are trying to do all this, Just pick up the girl and Mystery said, but no, I've got to understand the sequence. And while I have to say that women and relationships are about as non-linear as it gets and the Mystery Method is sort of trying to find a linear and logical explanation, I still give Mystery kudos for his mind and thinking.
ross was all over the place. he's a therapist, he can fuck a girl in 3 min but then it takes him a month. ross is big time liar. on PWF and JAL he stated 2 vastly different body counts. one was 80, another was over 300.
Ross is very tryhard. Impolite, interrupts, force controls the convo, aggressively self promotes, provides mostly anecdotes...a lot of mumbo. But Mystery figured it out long time ago. He gives you the tools to get immediate results and understand the game, then you build on that realization and confidence boost, and you could develop yourself into a demigod throughout the years. He's very underrated due to stigma but he's the godfather of live psychology.
Mystery often agrees with Ross because Ross's smaller frame of thought tends to fit just fine inside Mystery's. But Ross often disagrees with Mystery because his often rigid and narrow-minded view cannot easily accept a larger more flexible frame of thought.
It’s literally the opposite. Mystery is rigidly insisting everything is in his model but Ross is explaining there are things outside the model and he teaches various elements to remain flexible.
Ross...come on man. Mystery got proof of work. I have never failed using his algo's, along with Styles. It's like a poor person telling a billionaire how to make money. Mystery-sama is the man. A fucking legend.
Ross Jeffries immediately took this as a debate instead of an opportunity to forge new ground. Mystery was extremely effective at makling the transition and very humble to accept the correction. I would definitely love to learn from both however, following this debate. Excellent work guys.
Ross made some excellent points, especially considering the vast majority of us do not have (easy) access to certain environments, but Mystery demonstrated class at keeping it a dialogue over a debate.
Ross didn’t understand value. Yes in a moral sense everyone has value, but that doesn’t mean Ross would be equally interested in a supermodel and a female sumo wrestler, it’s about what is valued by the ingrained attraction mechanism.
Fastest close ~100 seconds. 2set. Opener, 1 qualifier, kino, your place or mine. She drove us to her place. Then back to club hours later to meet back up w friends. Circa 2006. Both of yall rock! Those were the days....JUST HAVE FUN,thats why its called a GAME
An amateur hopes to find a woman of beauty all by herself so he can approach her while a master pick up artist can successfully open and charm sets/groups.
@MegaasAlexandros He is a very enthusiastic person. One time, I met him with his girlfriend in a bookstore that is no longer on the Promenade. I found him to be very approachable and friendly.
I agree with what Ross Jeffries is saying. You must be in specified cities and clubs to practice mystery technique game. Many guys do not have the opportunity to be in those clubs, and the club industry as a whole has changed after Covi19. The issue with Daygame is that it is difficult to create momentum, and if you lack a sociable personality, daygame will be a nightmare. Ross's technique helps you to build stronger social skills in general, not just for pick-up.
Practicing talking to people will make you better with people. Doesn’t matter who your teacher is. I don’t love clubs, but the hottest girls do. Mystery says do both day and night, with a focus on night. Ross says don’t go to the target Rich environment. Idk how this is even a debate anymore tbh
This came along at precisely the most apropos time for me -- I'm just now turning on to all of this material, literature and videos, at 55. And then these two masters do a very informative video together. So much of what Ross had to say about his students resonates with me. I'm relearning my entire (very limited) understanding of women, dating, and social dynamics very late in life after very few dating experiences and no real relationship history. I'm hoping all of this can help me turn things around 180 while I still have a few years left. God bless Ross and Erik. Please wish me bon chance. 🙂
both men are amazing. I think the main takeaway from this is that Mystery's methods work better for certain environments and situations, and Ross's SS works better in other scenarios. And sometimes you can combine both methods. Ross is a good guy but he came off as sightly nasty and arrogant, and Mystery came off as cordial, sweet, and gentlemanly. Either way, both guys are still A+
lol Ross has always been provocative, he likes to poke the bear and not scared of the repercussions. I find myself like that at times. It’s just being direct without the fluff. But the fluff is sometimes what sells better.
This is the first I’ve seen of this channel, and I’m subscribing as of now. Mystery and Ross Jeffries are titans in the world of seduction, and are two men who deserve a firm and uncompromising salute from any and every man under the age of 40. Kudos for putting this together!
One thing about Roos he's very intellectual which is a DHV by itself. Women are attracted to man of great knowledge. He can express himself with appropriate words and manners, women love that. But Mystery to me define the game. The attitude to have towards a hot girl. Be interesting not interested, let her want you. She will,.... cause she's totally comfortable in your world, your presence. Convey preselection she'll want to be the one who's with you not the other girl(now you become the prize). Handle your needyness. Make her want you. Don't be too easy for her. It's a good feeling to get the woman that you want, wanting you. You are her own world, she wants nobody else but you. And know you make that happen, there's no better pride and confidence in yourself because of that.💥💥💫
Very well said! I agree, Ross is the more intellectual of these two masters, and speed seduction is a style of pickup that requires more intelligence to be applied successfully. But mystery just defines the whole thing, he actually created the framework that is universal and unavoidable.
Both had good points, I think Mystery is right about the learning process has to be very practical and tangible, otherwise its hard to get anywhere. With that said, men can’t stay in the ”training wheel” forever, they have to evolve and become the real authentic self. Which Ross is right about in dome areas, however he missing out on the learning structure to actually get things done practically. All in all, as a person who comes from the academic field of communication and behaviourism, both have a lot of wholes in their approach of attracting and dating women. -Mr Silk
It's true that a strikingly beautiful woman usually dont be in places alone but in groups. The groups she's in are there to protect her against unwanted approaches. However, many attractive women hang around people whom are not as attractive as her because she still like to stand out above the crowd
Another isolation tactic, mainly from the David Deangelo school of thought which relies heavily on body language, is to wait for the girl to isolate herself for you. Requires a lot of Non-verbal game but can be very powerful.
Ross’s entire body of work fits into the gambit section of the Mystery Method. Mystery structures this for the male brain to practically apply, Ross is all over the place. it’s easy to see how this fits together and not make it one or the other. I will say having the structure Mystery provides is much more comprehensively prolific to use vs. anything else.
@@SuperiorityQomplex I never go to clubs actually. only the environments ross was describing and have pleasing results. I like the psyche of what Ross says and the hypnosis aspects of it, but it still is an aspect that fits in MM.
@@upperech3lon ya I do hypnosis/nlp as part of my job anyway, so it's a no brainer for me. But if you don't know what you're doing, MM gives a lot of structure that helps guys learn. Ross' stuff doesn't have the structure, but it's far more useful if you master it. You can trigger emotions at will. Do t need to ask 'Who lies more, men or women?' which comes off less natural as you go. Both work, but I like ross' stuff better.
There’s a structure of emotions that you have to evoke in order for you to make it more natural to the point they want to jump on you! How fast you do this is up to you!!
@@sonbarker8745 I don't think you need any strict structure to trigger emotion. Hell, when I was in grade 8, I picked up a girl by having my puppy with me when I met her. 'oh the cute puppy!' Bam! Emotions triggered! 😉 I mean even the classic, 'oh I really like your X' and then keep walking like it wasn't a pickup attempt, will often have her chasing you..
Mystery is the victor here. He actually has a proven track record as a PUA, the other just talks about it. Don't get me wrong, RJ has history at this, but how much of it is true, really.
I didn’t see all of it, as I was watching the Euros football final at the same time lol. But something I thought was fascinating, although their methods are different, the commonality they both shared, was that, they both use their immense intelligence, communication and language skills to stimulate girls. Ross calls it SS and uses NLP, Erik calls it A1-A3 or the attraction phase (negging, ioi/iod etc). But essentially, the use of words and communication was the key and there was more of a crossover there, than they both realised. Something I also thought was interesting, Owen C who was students of both of them in the Project Hollywood days and along with the other RSD/SMC coaches has surpassed both of them! Because he tried and incorporated both of what they said, whilst doing a shed load of his own research and study. As I found myself agreeing with bits of what both Ross and Erik said, but that’s only because I’ve watched quite a few RSD digital programmes and been to their free tours, summits etc.
I'll admit, I've kind of eye-rolled a lot of the posts here about different debates, but joined this one because of the legendary status of the two participants. I was curious to see if there was, indeed, any debate at all. I've just finished my very first reading of the original 'The Mystery Method,' just to make sure any of my judgements were based on his actual words and not from third parties. And, although I've been well aware of Ross Jeffries' existence and his standing as the godfather of it all, I've never known much about Jeffries' techniques or strategies. Like much of life, our opinions on pickup will be largely based on what our underlying beliefs are. For example, debate rages in the public about whether abortion is right or wrong. People argue back and forth and never change one another's minds, and it's for a simple reason. The OPINION about abortion is based on an underlying BELIEF about something, in this case, about life. If a person believes that life begins at conception and the fetus is a living breathing human on par with all of the rest of us walking around the earth, then, of course, there will be a natural aversion to ending that life via an abortion. If a person sees the fetus as part of a woman's body, not really capable of meeting the minimum threshhold of being a life of it's own, well then, the person will almost assuredly support the idea that a woman has full agency over her own body and what to do with a fetus inside of her would fall under that agency, rendering the person, most likely, politically pro-choice on the matter. The debate is really not a debate about whether abortion is right or wrong, but moreso an exposition on what one believes about the beginning of life, etc. etc. [I don't give a damn what anyone thinks about abortion, and please don't make this post about that; it's simply a setup to make a point about the Mystery/Ross Jeffries debate.] To my great surprise, Ross and Mystery did actually go at one another and debate and have different viewpoints. But, in the same way that one's opinion on abortion most likely is derived from what they believe about an underlying topic, Jeffries' and Mystery's differences were borne of the same element - a difference of opinion about an underlying topic; two specifically came out in the debate. Mystery believes pickup starts in groups. Group theory IS game to Mystery. "Do not walk up to a girl who's all by herself," Neil Strauss quotes Mystery as saying in 'The Game.' "That is not...seduction. Women of beauty are rarely found alone." He reiterated the same idea multiple times in the debate as well. Mystery, at his core, believes women of beauty are rarely found alone. Of course, we know that one's world will follow what they believe, so, of course, Mystery's world has only ever reaffirmed this belief. As his life has gone along, I'm sure he's become nothing but emboldened in this belief due to his life experiences that seem to confirm it, seemingly over and over. Ross has a different belief and, as a result, different experiences. So, Mystery believes seduction starts in groups, inherently, and Ross believes beautiful women have to go to the grocery store, choose to go to yoga, and the like, and he encounters them there. Mystery encounters his targets out in "the field" which, for him, is synonymous with "bars and clubs." A debate ensued about whether beautiful women can be found alone or not. "Very very rarely," Mystery said. Well, what else would he say? "Oh, I see them alone aaaaaaaalllll the time," Jeffries said. What else would he say? They should've, instead, simply had a conversation about their underlying beliefs. The second main point of disagreement was, not surprisingly, around the concept of value. Mystery believes that our value, at least to women, is our Survival and Replication value. Ross holds that all humans have inherent value as a part of creation, not predicated on their ability to help one survive nor replicate. Of course, the "ideal" way to appeal to women would be different for a person that believed one of these premises compared to what a person who believed differently would find to be the ideal way to meet and attract women. It only stands to reason. The debate should've been, or it simply should've been pointed out that each was correct and had come to reasonable conclusions about what external methods were best based on their internal beliefs about what constitutes value. Of course you'd act differently if you believed women only valued Survival and Replication value than if you believed all men were inherently equally valuable and that women could appreciate and choose to bond with men based simply on their value as a human (the idea that, for whatever it's worth, I find myself much more closely aligned with). The more interesting discussion would've been around how humans SHOULD be valued or why each man thought that his concept of value was the more valid one. That would've revealed some interesting insight. Instead, the two debated on whether showing value and qualifying, etc. etc. was necessary or not. Of course, each was effective for the man practicing his own methods. Why? Because of his own beliefs. IF you believe and see the world the way Jeffries sees the world, you should grab his books, follow his methods, and give them a shot. They will probably work for you. If you believe and see the world the way Mystery sees the world, you should grab his books, follow his methods, and give them a shot. They will probably work for you.
@@dylanb2086 I agree. I have to say I think it stands alone as the most insightful comment in all iw RUclips history. I don't disagree with your assessment at all.
I agree with Ross and the nightclub scene. Personally, I have met more quality women during the day than in a night club. I find them less defensive during the day than out in clubs/bars, and according to the environment, you can strike some pretty good convo with them, and then get their details for a future meet-up. BUT for short-term relationships or one night stands, you need to be at a night club/bar.
ross couldn't even congratulate them for having children. mystery seems like he'd talk well behind your back, and ross can't even say anything good to you in front of you.
Good job Ice more of these high value guests, its clear both realised some holes in their game or 'sticking points' and hence saw the opportunity to collaborate at the end without downplaying their own methods. Bring on Gunswitch and owen/ tyler or whomever adds value
Did all this game stuff break these guys brains? Every interview Ross gets pissed when someone interjects and says they are interrupting him then spends the entire time interrupting himself and he randomly brings up Israel or that he’s Jewish when it has literally nothing to do with what anyone was talking about. Mystery barely even listens and just repeats speeches about his methods like at 1:17:21 he literally just ignores the question and repeats a speech about laugh tracks I swear I’ve heard him say word for word four separate times.
@@TC-yx1qt He's probably working overtime trying to think of some new lies to spew about us to cover up how jealous he is or how his business is losing money (His words). drive.google.com/file/d/1p8GuquAaO85Yd0Gulyy_FgUtumdEx9OT/view?usp=drive_link
John Anthony says all PUA's and dating coaches on youtube, which are 100s, are bad except himself. Even if he deems someone as good on the rare occasion it takes a short time before he makes a negative hit piece about them too.
I would have given a left ball to be in on this conversation. 18 years in New Orleans, French Quarter(2 yrs. street musician, 4 yrs. male stripper, 12 years strip club DJ) studying the human condition i have my own technics based on the fact that women are escape artist and men are adventure seekers and I see everything both Jeffries and Mystery do that I do and did through out the years. but I think I could host a debate like this in a structured way to compare both Jefferies method and Mystery's method side by side apples to apples. Now that being said they're methods are very different but has similarities to compare that both methods can be combined can complement each other. both of these guys are great
If Ross avoids bars and night clubs as he says, then he is not even qualified to approve or disapprove of them for the purpose of practicing pick up. WTF LOL
He avoids them because they don't work for his routines. Also his routines are more effective without alcohol. Most bars have a lot of noise and distractions, better to pick a girl up in your daily routines, also cheaper.
@@ppumpkin3282 also high end venues have tons of volume. You can't find an environment that's packed with hot girls between 20-30 outside of nightlife establishments.
@@ppumpkin3282and more practical. The average man , and his clientele of 40s-50s don’t have time to waste in a club. I work 40-70hrs a week, We see hotties in our daily routines of shopping groceries and getting gas, or Home Depot, lol
Ross is a pioneer on how women respond but Mystery is more practical. And Ross, whether it's telling a story or not, in your own words, I think I heard you said once "I don't care what people say or think they want. I only care what they respond to."
host a debate with Karisma King and Alex Social, KK teaches rsd concepts such as open all, state management, hook point, isolation, but Alex Social rejects them despite being formerly in RSD. I really want to see them hash out their reasonings.
This video is an important part of manosphere history mate, well done. I remember in the late 90s or early 00s ordering Ross Jeffries CDs :):) That was pre Tinder, dial up modems. Different era. I also remember learning about kino escalation and negging secondhand from a mate who had read Mysterys stuff. Brilliant men. I must admit its a struggle to learn and apply that stuff by yourself. I think they're interesting tools, but every man will have to evaluate whether he can wield these tools himself. I think the discussion highlights some of the challenges in both approaches. Not every man has access to or works well in clubs, not every man is going to meet beautiful women in coffee shops ( they are rarely by themselves as Mystery says) and speak in eloquent NLP language patterns for hours. But i respect both men for what they achieved and shared, and to you all for this video 🎉
I read Mystery Method 20 years ago and have had all the sex with as many women as I could want. Rock solid principles. Ross is stuck in his own definitions and world. He would do well to take some notes from Mystery. Mystery’s principles work 1:1 and day game etc. really well. A LOT of things Ross is talking about are actually parts of Mystery’s teaching but different vocabulary.
Great job job putting this together Ice. This seems like a clear W for Mystery. Indirect will still work for every girl who is receptive to direct. The inverse is not true. Night club techniques will still work during the day. Refusing to enter the club eliminates half your targets. Considering those two points, Mystery Method is more versatile. As a bonus, he seems far more experienced, confident, and calm. Ross just comes off as bitter, and I don’t believe half his stories.
Listned to this full interview a couple days ago. Big fan of Mystery, and would like to know more about Ross Jeffries. To me, the differences started to show between the two when it became clear that Ross didn't like club atmosphere's and Mystery did. This is a major distinction between the two of them. I can remember recently Mystery poo pooing picking girls up off the street instead of a high end clubs and I realized from this interview that was actually kind of of an issue with Mystery, especially when Ross was pointing out that he's trying to help the guy from Podunk Idaho and not just the rich guys living in HollyWood and I give hom major points for that. I give Mystery points for trying more often to find common grrund instead of trying to appear better. Mystery essentially ended the debate saying, why not learn Both styles? And I have to agree. There's value to both approaches and I think they're both worth learning.
Not into method acting to get a girl but Mystery is light years ahead of Ross. He actually has a system and pointers that put a guy on track almost scientifically
First, I want to give each their roses for being legends in the space. This dialog has many takeaways! I felt like Ross came there with a mission to sell, which is unfortunate because you could see it in needing to correct little wording or techniques of Mystery, trying to be the dominant and the "right" technique. Which is unfortunate because if he came in a bit more neutral, with a respect for the epicness of just these minds coming together... There is always room to learn if you're open to learning. Several times he tried to back Mystery into a corner with a ah I got you moment, by trying to get him to say he used certain techniques. I found it a bit annoying how he constantly kept pointing at his shirt like he was trying to treat us like one of his girls he's putting under a trance lol I appreciated Mystery's straight forward mentioning his product once. I also liked how he carried himself during the interview, even under tough critique at times from Ross. I felt he came more neutral to the exchange, creating a path for meaningful dialog. I think this interview showed that it's not either or, both have had great success. Both have methods that would better many men with overall game and both have more specialized techniques. It's great to see them both around the community still and this was value packed from both sides! Ty
I didn't learn a lot about his method, but I did find his recommendation to Meditate insteresting. I don't know that must about NLP and I'm surprised if it works. I am interested in Ross though.
The difference is that Ross actually knows how to teach you how to consciously raise your sexual energy and let the presence of this energy lead everything. You wouldn't need phases at all when everything naturally arises from your balls. There's a deep collective unconscious experience that it seems like some of Mystery's students are not aware of or even see the importance for. Some people are naturally aware of this, but like Ross was stressing, everybody would benefit off having that groundwork to become self-learning, having an applicable understanding of that NLP subconscious/unconscious aspect we all share. Mystery uses this of course yet doesn't seem to see the importance of it or teach it or reveal it.
You get it my friend you are the only sane in this comment section, the people going in mystery direction will search for new method in 5-10 years and then they will realise what Ross is actually saying and then go for Ross and Get the transformation they always needed
Mystery is a Genius but this exposure to Ross with video evidence shows Mystery is not the most empathetic guide and doesn’t seem to understand that not everything needs to be done while in a club or a party situation. Most guys just want to be able to approach a “girl next door” type of girl. Most guys are starting from Zero and it’s much more beneficial to be able to talk to the cute girl at the counter or the cute girl at the library, bus stop, university/school, work, etc. Plus those women are probably the better candidates anyways. Also women will probably find it more romantic and magical if you met in her every day life where she least expects it. The less scripted and more organic the approach the better. (Also Mystery kept cutting Ross off, missing the point, being a contrarian, smart and doesn’t understand NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO BE IN THE CLUBS! 😂)
and yet finding a girl all by herself is like finding a needle in a haystack especially for a newbie who is practicisng. Even if you look at exposure therapy. the more you're expose to a certain situation the easier it gets to overcome the anxiety, gain the confidence and become more competent. There has been countless times when i go for daygame to approach single girls and all i could find is one or two of them in an hour. It can be a waste of time. So i don't think it's a bad idea to go in a public gathering and meet lots of women in a span of time and get better at game, that would help you densitize yourself so when you end up finding a cute girl at a counter, it's easier for you to approach.
I grew up studying every pua under the sun and it was always attraction guys focus on deep inner game, david D'Angelo, wayne elise, etc, and guys who want to get laid, mystery etc. What I found is that sure the mystery method will get you laid HOWEVER, you are gonna be a social robot. It took me a while to learn how to be social after all the canned responses i needed to learn. Only when i stumbled on NLP and some things from thr Art of Charm, did I really start to understand how language works. What Ross is offering (to a degree) is whats called the law of requisite variety. Take two models. NLP in general does not fit into every model (MM etc), but every model fits into NLP. NLP allows one to become a more flexible thinker in general (many paths to the same destination) whereas Mystery Method, you MUST follow the steps specifically (or sequentially) to achieve the outcome. Mystery developed an effective model, that is limited to being effective ONLY as well as you follow the steps. I believe both have good intentions, the skills i continue to learn stem from NLP, in which I feel Mystery could benefit from for himself and his system greatly. Ive learned a lot from both. Theres no finish line w this stuff guys :) its good to zoom out once in a while.
Having coached hundreds of their former students. There’s value in both methods but neither process is very practical for “most” people. I had to create a whole system to undue the nonsense students had burned into their brains. “Normalization” where I remove endless gamey BS and return them to a genuine state. They won’t go back to “being themselves” but a far superior, competent, and squared away member of society. I’ve been an underground coach for nearly 15 years. Any person who’s taking steps to try to become better is 80% of the way there. I applaud these two for helping millions take that step. - Joe Gunn
Great conversation with a ton of great info. I think you did a very good job with the setup and they had the idea of a good faith discussion with each comment. These guys are both brilliant but have reached their success from different pathways and I think have more in common than they realize? They I think have different terminologies for what they do but they're kind of doing similar things but call it something different or can 'hack' or do something to expedite that process. The thing I see Jeffries get wrong is when Mystery called it 'Art' Jeffries disagreed. It isn't a science like baking a cake, you are an artist because it's different with each person. It's not a plug and play follow the steps, you do your thing and see the expected response to allow you to escalate. It's not exactly the same like baking a cake. I started baking recently and if you deviate from the recipe in the slightest way can really change the end result in usually a bad way. With pickup, you can spend more time here to allow for more comfort or whatever. It's not the same amount of time for each level for each person, it's different. That's where the artist comes in. Good stuff, nice to see Mystery back at it but with the mindset of a middle aged father vs someone still trying to live that life.
The reality as someone who's done PUA is it's good to have basic PUA skills but it's not necessary beyond that, stat maxing +interesting lifestyle > PUA. They might be MPUA's but did they cultivate their maximal potential? The answer is no.
Conclusion: If you live or want to live a hollywoodesk life in a big city, then go with mystery. If you are a guy who just wants to learn how to seduce a pretty woman no matter the environment (which is 99% of guys), then Ross's approach is infinitely more helpful. The true measure of a teacher is his ability to teach self-reliance. You ain't getting that in 3 days hanging around mystery and his over the top entourage. Ross points this out several times and mystery's response is that he screens out individuals he believes will disrupt the group - interpret that as you will. I'm not denying mystery's methods work if you happen to attend his bootcamp, but they work in a specific environment ruled by specific social norms - clubs and parties. What happens when you're all by yourself at the grocery store and you see a cute girl? You're gonna conjure up two hot girls around you in order to raise your perceived value? This is where actual game comes into play instead of these cheap easy fixes that you "learn" in 3 days. Nobody learns anything worth learning in only 3 days. You think you're gonna evolve to become a social and seductive man in 3 days? Let's be real for a second here. What mystery sells is a hedonistic experience in one of the most notorious nightlife cities on the planet - be it New York, Toronto, LA, etc. You're gonna get your money's worth for sure, but don't expect much once you go back to your ordinary life - assuming he even accepts ordinary people into his bootcamp. Again, Ross points this out several times. Draw your own conclusions. What I believe is that one guy speaks to 99% of men, while the other is promoting a Hangover fantasy for three days.
Around 1:15 mystery says what you do wrong in the night reveals the rights for tomorrow. Something like that he says. It’s very true I just had this happen to me yesterday and today. Thank you for your time mystery .
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Is there a way to turn on live chat replay for those of us who can’t watch right now?
what top 4 books do they recommend anyone learning game read
@@millionaaar23
It was already enabled, maybe it wasn't showing when you clicked on because it just ended.
Do you see it?
@@GameGlobalOfficialI’ll check again tonight. Could be since I’m watching on phone. But nevertheless legendary guests!
@@billusher2265 books that are good game books I’ve read.
Mode one by Allan Roger Currie . Models by Mark Manson. The Setup by Dan Bilzerian and Rejection Proof by Jia Jiang. These should help you out.
They should make another season of The Pickup Artist. But split the competitors into two teams and have these two as opposing coaches
I don't think it matters. Doing pickup is all about picking up, so if one pickup artist can make someone better with girls becasue of what he teaches and he does it faster, that is all we have to measure. I think ross is more about therapy then picking up girls, but I still think he would want to show that he is better at pickup then Mystery.@@ScorpionSuerte
ross is about therapy. which means he has to convince you that you are traumatized, you have to accept that belief, and then the therapy is a hallucination that cements the whole thing.
ohh hell yeah dude.
and bring in tyler and julien too. they will probably destroy these two at this point. rsd natural game is just soo powerful
@@AM-jx3zf lol nah
Ross doesnt want to get interrumped, yet he is interrumpting mystery all the time
and he doesn't want to be mischaracterized, but mischaracterizes everyone all the time
It's apparent that he's trying to out alpha him with attempts to assert dominance over the conversation.
As someone who's pushing 40 and from a traditional culture, and got into PUA back in 2006-07 through David DeAngelo and of course all the other classic eBook and digital product stuff, here's my take:
- Great to see both doing great, it's been over 10 years that I actively game, especially after going more Red Pill/MGTOW after 2015 from Tom Leykis radio shows, Paul Elam, Coach Red Pill, Sandman, Barbarossa, Stardusk...
- Both of them are still stuck in the "old" paradigm, wokeness/MeToo/vicitimization/being part of an affected group... has completely taken over not just the West, but traditional cultures
- Back then, people in general and women, had way less distractions in person, and certainly didn't have a device in their hand that feeds back narcissism and all their negative behaviors
- The masculine/feminine dichotomy was well defined back then, now it's just a mishmash... women are far too masculine and men too feminine, the less said the better
- These gambits and games don't work anymore, maybe on women over 45, because they are in the old paradigm, but definitely not the OnlyThots
- Mystery though a Gen Xer, has a much better attitude in terms of both open mindedness towards learning, and humble when teaching, in fact he got pushed too much here, and should have pushed back and set boundaries with RJ
-Ross Jeffries on the other hand, is a typical boomer from SoCal, who is obviously grappling with the far left SJW brainwashing, not to mention his Jooish shanda that he inserts into every conversation, he does not listen at all and has a far too NARROW point of view to understand anything beyond language
Though I am thankful to both of them, because of RJ I learnt about NLP and from Mystery I understood evolutionary psychology, wayyy before video and social media took over society. Ultimately, this whole 2 hour spiel was just mental masturbation based on an outdated social paradigm. It feels like the whole society moved ahead, while these 2 stuck behind.
Dealing with women in the 2020s and beyond, they don't respond to this anymore, even if they do, it's going to be shortlived and you will get damaged goods like single moms and women with BPD, histrionics, narcissism, dark triad/tetrad, cluster B and borderlines are aplenty.
@@HamletsMill25920 I'm not sure what you mean about mystery. What exactly about him is outdated? ACS and practicing presentational skills hasn't changed. Social proof hasn't changed. Going out into the field hasn't changed. if anything dating apps is producing nothing but discontent and was so extremely short-lived. They was just a flash in the pan.
Also, it's very interesting name. What do you mean by Netty Netty?
dominance bro
You guys along with Strauss started an entire movement and helped millions of men make a better life for themselves. In that round about way you can die saying you changed the world. Bravo and glad to see you two so many years after reading the Game.
don't know why, but i apreciate mystery's way of carrying this debate.
Carried himself a lot better. Ross seemed child like, wanted to be listened to but wouldn't give Eric the respect of being listened to.
@@MegaasAlexandrosAfter having freshly read the book, this interraction really proved the animosity Ross had for Mystery whilst Mystery never really minding Ross to have truly happened. They might be more mature now but Ross's "shut him out" mentality is still there. Really cool to be able to witness this after having known the book for over ten years.
@@wingnutmcspazatron3957 which book ? The game ? I agree with your assessment
Having a debate of whether speed seduction is better than Mystery Method is like having a debate as to whether quantum mechanics is better than general relativity. now a unified theory, that would be something.
Disagree. There's a time and a place for both methods. This talk highlights the limitations of both strategies
Conflict is polarizing; pick a side. No one respects a fence sitter.
All the guys that really know game know they both suck 😂 they're stuck in the dinosaur era
that is the worst analogy I ever heard in my life.
@@MaxEdge-pf3pp unless you're a hot chick and the fence is made of hard. Dicks.
2 hours of Ross interrupting Eric but warning Eric not to interrupt him LOL
😂
where did he interrupt him man, rather the other way around. He was respectfull all the way
Mystery was a complete gentleman, even when he was asked by Ross to define something, and started, and then Ross interrupted Mystery even before Mystery finished his explanation, Ross would immediately come in and say "I don't know what this means, it doesn't make any sense to me." To give the one where he asked about status. And Ross completely insulted Mystery. I think Ross is frankly jealous of Mystery cause Mystery is so much more famous, and so much more respected. Ross treated Mystery like he was some kid that didn't know anything, passive aggressive through half the interview. Meanwhile Mystery was nothing but polite, and complementary, even when Ross totally would strawman an argument to make Mystery look bad, or at least to people who fall for Ross's stuff. If you can't understand what 'high status' means in terms of evolution traits, and procreation, than I'm sorry, you are an idiot... And Ross trying to insult Mystery by stating that 'high value' in terms of evolution traits didnt' make any sense, shows how much deeper mystery is. Mystery is basing his ideas off actual evolutionary behaviour, psychobiology, sociology, ideas like the Red Queen, which I bet if you asked both of them to explain, that Mystery would have no problem explaining it, while Ross would try to down play it as a real idea. Despite it being a very important idea in the ideas of how species evolve, ie "constantly must run to stay in the same place', etc. Where Ross is just acting like he knows it all, but is basing everything off stuff he just thinks he knows. If he thinks that Mystery hasn't seduced women in less then 7 hours he is again a fool. Mystery is talking about generally how long it takes to get to the point where a woman will want to seduce you where that woman has high value in terms of being attractive, intelligent etc. Anyone can find some bimbo who will sleep with a guy in the first 10 mins of meeting them, that's not something to brag about, that's something you better go to the clinic to get checked out often if that is who you are hooking up with....
As someone who's pushing 40 and from a traditional culture, and got into PUA back in 2006-07 through David DeAngelo and of course all the other classic eBook and digital product stuff, here's my take:
- Great to see both doing great, it's been over 10 years that I actively game, especially after going more Red Pill/MGTOW after 2015 from Tom Leykis radio shows, Paul Elam, Coach Red Pill, Sandman, Barbarossa, Stardusk...
- Both of them are still stuck in the "old" paradigm, wokeness/MeToo/vicitimization/being part of an affected group... has completely taken over not just the West, but traditional cultures
- Back then, people in general and women, had way less distractions in person, and certainly didn't have a device in their hand that feeds back narcissism and all their negative behaviors
- The masculine/feminine dichotomy was well defined back then, now it's just a mishmash... women are far too masculine and men too feminine, the less said the better
- These gambits and games don't work anymore, maybe on women over 45, because they are in the old paradigm, but definitely not the OnlyThots
- Mystery though a Gen Xer, has a much better attitude in terms of both open mindedness towards learning, and humble when teaching, in fact he got pushed too much here, and should have pushed back and set boundaries with RJ
-Ross Jeffries on the other hand, is a typical boomer from SoCal, who is obviously grappling with the far left SJW brainwashing, not to mention his Jooish shanda that he inserts into every conversation, he does not listen at all and has a far too NARROW point of view to understand anything beyond language
Though I am thankful to both of them, because of RJ I learnt about NLP and from Mystery I understood evolutionary psychology, wayyy before video and social media took over society. Ultimately, this whole 2 hour spiel was just mental masturbation based on an outdated social paradigm. It feels like the whole society moved ahead, while these 2 stuck behind.
Dealing with women in the 2020s and beyond, they don't respond to this anymore, even if they do, it's going to be shortlived and you will get damaged goods like single moms and women with BPD, histrionics, narcissism, dark triad/tetrad, cluster B and borderlines are aplenty.
@@HamletsMill25920 Wow, thanks for this thoughtful response. It sounds as though you have done a lot of work as a guy trying to understand women and yourself. I admire that. I'm not sure I agree that these concepts are not for the present time because evolutionary biology has simply not changed in the fundamental ways that we understand regarding attraction. I would recommend a book to everyone (one I'm sure you've heard about), called "Seduction," by Robert Greene. Since this book traces thousands of years of seducers and seduction behaviors it is a timeless read, possibly the most well-researched book on the subject.
What I care about at this stage of my life is to get into a solid, high quality relationship, and that means that I need to do the one thing, the most basic thing that IS timeless, and that is to 1. establish myself as a man, both in accepting me for who I am with all of my faults as well as abilities; 2. establish independence from my parents/family as a self-sustaining provider; 3. develop communication skills, self-understanding, and emotional self-control, and then do the last two things: A. Approach women through my fears; B. enter into relationships with them, and C. learn from these relationships with the end goal to find the one that I know will be my life partner.
Ross Jefferies speaks like a man who's made 10,000 awkward approaches, with only 3 successful. The fact that he has to interrupt and defend himself - when no one is challenging his methods is telling. Also, if you have to preface by swearing to God, saying you're not lying and swearing on random shit... You're probably lying
He says some interesting things but it's hard for me to like him because I don't like his style and his charisma.. one thing with mystery is he's put effort into every thing. Because I fully understand mystery method it makes sense to me.. I think Ross has some good techniques. I'd have to see what he teaches and practices but this idea but you do everything at once and it doesn't take very long.
I don't understand how this stuff works and not interaction. I'll look into his stuff further but mystery s stop just makes sense.
And I understand the psychology behind it.. why you do things in the particular order. It's the natural order that a naturally confident guy that sees himself as high value would act.
That's what Ross doesn't understand he's saying that you can create value by getting the girl to experience these emotions by talking with her and that might be true.
But there's a certain way that people act that value themselves.
That's what mystery is saying.
Because I'm a person that does value myself and I've lived this for years and internalized it I naturally act like a person that values themselves highly.
This really shows how superior the mystery method is.
Whenever I feel like I've dropped off a bit, coming back to the 'process' is so important. Are you screwing up the open? Are you being attractive enough before qualifying? So do you need to work on A1 or A2 or A3? Are you jumping to C1-3 (so in essence saying: "what do you do?" etc) too fast...Are you trying to seduce before she's attracted and comfortable?
To simplify that:
Attraction:
A1: How are you meeting her? Do you need to go to a different place/make a social circle? Go out with girls? And if it's just randomly on the street, what's your opener? (I do think it's best to have SOMETHING ready to say so you're not flustered but again, can just work on it).
A2: Does she find you attractive? Do you need a better Tinder Profile if it's online. Do you need to look better? Do you need to flirt more before qualifying?
A3: Qualifying - what are you geniinely looking for?
Comfort: This is easy - just spending time or whatever, but are you doing this too early? Or skipping and talking about sex?
Seducation: Are you brining up the 'offer' of sex, marrigage whatever smoothly and after attraction/comfort is built, or when are you bringing it up and how...
Legends. The OG's were so much better, before all the scammers and grifters came in.
@@lovedrop4563 Loooooool, excellent comment.
Are you the legendary Chris Odom?
@@ScorpionSuerte add solid inner game to that
Disagree, seduction has improved a lot in the years.
These guys are proposing approaches that may work, but are that not very natural and genuine -not for most guys anyways-
@@Power_Uni Can you recommend one of the "improved" systems?
Omg this debate has been due for decades, good job
The old guy is such a boomer. I know small business owners like him. They’re obsessed with being acknowledged and they take it personally when other people get more acknowledgment than them. Especially if they’re younger. They can’t tolerate it and usually play a ‘quality over quantity’ card to square the circle in their heads
THIS is what got me into the scene originally. Masters like this. It's not merely nostalgic, although it is. These guys WERE / ARE better than whats been out there, all the demon spawns that came from them. This felt great.
Mystery has got his swagger back. Wow!
I listened to JAL and my game completely suffered for it. the guy has sucked all the fun out of the game, and mystery brought it back with his performance approach. JAL just smashed out drunk, lies about literally everything, and his approaches are just quick flash in the pans that go no where and just scare everyone off
@@businesswalks8301 He's a miserable guy
@@lovedrop4563 you talking about how JAL is completely a loser?
@@businesswalks8301who’s JAL
@@businesswalks8301plenty of juice
The man who started PUA and the man who popularized it having a convo.
Legendary stuff.
We have something here, using Mysteries structure and Ross Jeffries patterns wherever possible can speed things up.
This is the way
U can't merge both ways, because each of them has a different mentality, the mystery method doesn't recommend speed seduction while the other does
@@deadlylion_dz7063 You can't do both exact methods at the same time, obviously. But you can use elements of one in the other. Some of Ross's patterns might fit well into Mystery's attraction-building stories, for example. Or might be excellent in the comfort building stage. That might be TOO good, actually.
Ross seems too invested in finding flaws in Mystery's game at all costs which is fine because it allows Mystery to further explain and solidify the reasoning behind his method.
They were both doing it Ross was just less subtle. Still essentially saying the same thing
That's something I noticed too. I thought it was a little gem when Mystery told the story about Neil who said, Why are trying to do all this, Just pick up the girl and Mystery said, but no, I've got to understand the sequence. And while I have to say that women and relationships are about as non-linear as it gets and the Mystery Method is sort of trying to find a linear and logical explanation, I still give Mystery kudos for his mind and thinking.
ross was all over the place. he's a therapist, he can fuck a girl in 3 min but then it takes him a month. ross is big time liar. on PWF and JAL he stated 2 vastly different body counts. one was 80, another was over 300.
Ross is very tryhard. Impolite, interrupts, force controls the convo, aggressively self promotes, provides mostly anecdotes...a lot of mumbo. But Mystery figured it out long time ago. He gives you the tools to get immediate results and understand the game, then you build on that realization and confidence boost, and you could develop yourself into a demigod throughout the years. He's very underrated due to stigma but he's the godfather of live psychology.
Mystery often agrees with Ross because Ross's smaller frame of thought tends to fit just fine inside Mystery's. But Ross often disagrees with Mystery because his often rigid and narrow-minded view cannot easily accept a larger more flexible frame of thought.
👍🔥
@@heartandmindovercome3214
Good observation.
Power vs Force
It’s literally the opposite. Mystery is rigidly insisting everything is in his model but Ross is explaining there are things outside the model and he teaches various elements to remain flexible.
@@billusher2265 That's true. mystery doesn't seem to be open-minded.
Ross...come on man. Mystery got proof of work. I have never failed using his algo's, along with Styles. It's like a poor person telling a billionaire how to make money. Mystery-sama is the man. A fucking legend.
"Mystery-sama" lmao
Ross Jeffries immediately took this as a debate instead of an opportunity to forge new ground. Mystery was extremely effective at makling the transition and very humble to accept the correction. I would definitely love to learn from both however, following this debate. Excellent work guys.
Ross made some excellent points, especially considering the vast majority of us do not have (easy) access to certain environments, but Mystery demonstrated class at keeping it a dialogue over a debate.
Ross didn’t understand value. Yes in a moral sense everyone has value, but that doesn’t mean Ross would be equally interested in a supermodel and a female sumo wrestler, it’s about what is valued by the ingrained attraction mechanism.
I would have to agree, although it's nice to learn something that is the opposite, as it may appeal to different folks.
I have the greatest respect towards these esteemed gentleman appearing here and to those who are no longer with us.
Fastest close ~100 seconds. 2set. Opener, 1 qualifier, kino, your place or mine. She drove us to her place. Then back to club hours later to meet back up w friends. Circa 2006. Both of yall rock!
Those were the days....JUST HAVE FUN,thats why its called a GAME
Best comment I have seen in a while, and I see some real great comments.
An amateur hopes to find a woman of beauty all by herself so he can approach her while a master pick up artist can successfully open and charm sets/groups.
FUN FACT: I MET ROSS 3 TIMES.He was really cool, dude . One day, I would love to meet mystery he really helped me in ways you can't imagine.
Where did you meet him ?
@@MegaasAlexandros on the 3rd st Santa Monica promenade in Southern California.
@@franzhaas5597 love to hear what he was like, too descriptive isn't possible !
@MegaasAlexandros He is a very enthusiastic person. One time, I met him with his girlfriend in a bookstore that is no longer on the Promenade. I found him to be very approachable and friendly.
I agree with what Ross Jeffries is saying. You must be in specified cities and clubs to practice mystery technique game. Many guys do not have the opportunity to be in those clubs, and the club industry as a whole has changed after Covi19. The issue with Daygame is that it is difficult to create momentum, and if you lack a sociable personality, daygame will be a nightmare. Ross's technique helps you to build stronger social skills in general, not just for pick-up.
Practicing talking to people will make you better with people. Doesn’t matter who your teacher is. I don’t love clubs, but the hottest girls do. Mystery says do both day and night, with a focus on night. Ross says don’t go to the target Rich environment. Idk how this is even a debate anymore tbh
Epic debate!! Big props to ice for setting this up
Are you going to do a breakdown of debate?
@@wrappedinblack8937
Good idea. Alex would have a very interesting perspective on this now that I think about it.
Dude john anthony lifestyle dropped a ross jeffries fraud video!
@wrappedinblack8937
@@wrappedinblack8937 I thought he was cool with Ross!
Get Ross and Mystery on the speed dates.
This came along at precisely the most apropos time for me -- I'm just now turning on to all of this material, literature and videos, at 55. And then these two masters do a very informative video together. So much of what Ross had to say about his students resonates with me. I'm relearning my entire (very limited) understanding of women, dating, and social dynamics very late in life after very few dating experiences and no real relationship history. I'm hoping all of this can help me turn things around 180 while I still have a few years left. God bless Ross and Erik. Please wish me bon chance. 🙂
I was fortunate enough to encounter these men in my late teens - all men under the age of 40 owe these men an enormous debt.
It works the best on a bit older girls like 30-35. I am 21 and started last year. What a crazy experiences I have gotten. Crazy stuff
@@koengreen2540 Those "girls" aren't older for me. 🙂 I'm sure my own experiences will be fairly interesting. Thanks, and God Bless.
I feel like Mystery has turned back the clock this year
Thank you, guys.
Now I understand Mystary more. He is a gamer. Not just seducer. He likes the game, the process.
Like scientists like science
both men are amazing. I think the main takeaway from this is that Mystery's methods work better for certain environments and situations, and Ross's SS works better in other scenarios. And sometimes you can combine both methods. Ross is a good guy but he came off as sightly nasty and arrogant, and Mystery came off as cordial, sweet, and gentlemanly. Either way, both guys are still A+
i’ve always thought mystery was for extroverts and ross for introverts. but i agree, both are amazing
lol Ross has always been provocative, he likes to poke the bear and not scared of the repercussions. I find myself like that at times. It’s just being direct without the fluff. But the fluff is sometimes what sells better.
Very solid appraisal. Well said.
What a debate and discussion. Congratulations; Game Global to have pull this off
fully agree 💯
great job 😁👌
This is the first I’ve seen of this channel, and I’m subscribing as of now. Mystery and Ross Jeffries are titans in the world of seduction, and are two men who deserve a firm and uncompromising salute from any and every man under the age of 40. Kudos for putting this together!
under the age of 40? lol why didn't ross book come out in 89? what 10 year olds were reading that?
1. These guys have applied the scientific method to the game.
2. What they do is not easy and even harder to teach.
Love that this happened.. Jeffries and Mystery are both brilliant men
Holy shit! What a time to be alive.
The collaboration was a great idea. Some eye opening points and wins/losses. Thanks for making it a reality 👍
Ross puts down Mystery's DHV spike method, then proceeds to tell a story littered with DHV spikes.
Both men are clearly very well spoken and worth listening to. 👍
One thing about Roos he's very intellectual which is a DHV by itself.
Women are attracted to man of great knowledge. He can express himself with appropriate words and manners, women love that.
But Mystery to me define the game. The attitude to have towards a hot girl. Be interesting not interested, let her want you. She will,.... cause she's totally comfortable in your world, your presence. Convey preselection she'll want to be the one who's with you not the other girl(now you become the prize). Handle your needyness. Make her want you. Don't be too easy for her.
It's a good feeling to get the woman that you want, wanting you. You are her own world, she wants nobody else but you. And know you make that happen, there's no better pride and confidence in yourself because of that.💥💥💫
Very well said! I agree, Ross is the more intellectual of these two masters, and speed seduction is a style of pickup that requires more intelligence to be applied successfully. But mystery just defines the whole thing, he actually created the framework that is universal and unavoidable.
Is it me or does it look like Mystery is standing with a backpack on the whole time?
Peacocking bro 😁
Both had good points, I think Mystery is right about the learning process has to be very practical and tangible, otherwise its hard to get anywhere. With that said, men can’t stay in the ”training wheel” forever, they have to evolve and become the real authentic self. Which Ross is right about in dome areas, however he missing out on the learning structure to actually get things done practically. All in all, as a person who comes from the academic field of communication and behaviourism, both have a lot of wholes in their approach of attracting and dating women. -Mr Silk
Nothing Ross likes more than the sound of his own voice.
It's true that a strikingly beautiful woman usually dont be in places alone but in groups. The groups she's in are there to protect her against unwanted approaches. However, many attractive women hang around people whom are not as attractive as her because she still like to stand out above the crowd
Another isolation tactic, mainly from the David Deangelo school of thought which relies heavily on body language, is to wait for the girl to isolate herself for you. Requires a lot of Non-verbal game but can be very powerful.
Ross’s entire body of work fits into the gambit section of the Mystery Method. Mystery structures this for the male brain to practically apply, Ross is all over the place. it’s easy to see how this fits together and not make it one or the other. I will say having the structure Mystery provides is much more comprehensively prolific to use vs. anything else.
@@SuperiorityQomplex I never go to clubs actually. only the environments ross was describing and have pleasing results. I like the psyche of what Ross says and the hypnosis aspects of it, but it still is an aspect that fits in MM.
@@upperech3lon ya I do hypnosis/nlp as part of my job anyway, so it's a no brainer for me. But if you don't know what you're doing, MM gives a lot of structure that helps guys learn. Ross' stuff doesn't have the structure, but it's far more useful if you master it. You can trigger emotions at will. Do t need to ask 'Who lies more, men or women?' which comes off less natural as you go.
Both work, but I like ross' stuff better.
There’s a structure of emotions that you have to evoke in order for you to make it more natural to the point they want to jump on you! How fast you do this is up to you!!
@@sonbarker8745 I don't think you need any strict structure to trigger emotion. Hell, when I was in grade 8, I picked up a girl by having my puppy with me when I met her. 'oh the cute puppy!' Bam! Emotions triggered! 😉
I mean even the classic, 'oh I really like your X' and then keep walking like it wasn't a pickup attempt, will often have her chasing you..
@@SuperiorityQomplex I didn’t say strict. But it is useful to have one . I admit sometimes one thing can trigger all of em together like in your case!
Great debate between the two legends, Mister E and Jeff.
Mystery is the victor here. He actually has a proven track record as a PUA, the other just talks about it. Don't get me wrong, RJ has history at this, but how much of it is true, really.
I didn’t see all of it, as I was watching the Euros football final at the same time lol. But something I thought was fascinating, although their methods are different, the commonality they both shared, was that, they both use their immense intelligence, communication and language skills to stimulate girls. Ross calls it SS and uses NLP, Erik calls it A1-A3 or the attraction phase (negging, ioi/iod etc). But essentially, the use of words and communication was the key and there was more of a crossover there, than they both realised.
Something I also thought was interesting, Owen C who was students of both of them in the Project Hollywood days and along with the other RSD/SMC coaches has surpassed both of them! Because he tried and incorporated both of what they said, whilst doing a shed load of his own research and study. As I found myself agreeing with bits of what both Ross and Erik said, but that’s only because I’ve watched quite a few RSD digital programmes and been to their free tours, summits etc.
Mystery,classy as always, kudos .
Do a panel with Gabriel grey and coach Kyle on technical game vs state based game, and ask who was their most memorable student transformation
This is like Wilt Chamberlain vs Michael Jordan 😂
I'll admit, I've kind of eye-rolled a lot of the posts here about different debates, but joined this one because of the legendary status of the two participants. I was curious to see if there was, indeed, any debate at all.
I've just finished my very first reading of the original 'The Mystery Method,' just to make sure any of my judgements were based on his actual words and not from third parties.
And, although I've been well aware of Ross Jeffries' existence and his standing as the godfather of it all, I've never known much about Jeffries' techniques or strategies.
Like much of life, our opinions on pickup will be largely based on what our underlying beliefs are.
For example, debate rages in the public about whether abortion is right or wrong. People argue back and forth and never change one another's minds, and it's for a simple reason. The OPINION about abortion is based on an underlying BELIEF about something, in this case, about life.
If a person believes that life begins at conception and the fetus is a living breathing human on par with all of the rest of us walking around the earth, then, of course, there will be a natural aversion to ending that life via an abortion.
If a person sees the fetus as part of a woman's body, not really capable of meeting the minimum threshhold of being a life of it's own, well then, the person will almost assuredly support the idea that a woman has full agency over her own body and what to do with a fetus inside of her would fall under that agency, rendering the person, most likely, politically pro-choice on the matter.
The debate is really not a debate about whether abortion is right or wrong, but moreso an exposition on what one believes about the beginning of life, etc. etc. [I don't give a damn what anyone thinks about abortion, and please don't make this post about that; it's simply a setup to make a point about the Mystery/Ross Jeffries debate.]
To my great surprise, Ross and Mystery did actually go at one another and debate and have different viewpoints.
But, in the same way that one's opinion on abortion most likely is derived from what they believe about an underlying topic, Jeffries' and Mystery's differences were borne of the same element - a difference of opinion about an underlying topic; two specifically came out in the debate.
Mystery believes pickup starts in groups. Group theory IS game to Mystery.
"Do not walk up to a girl who's all by herself," Neil Strauss quotes Mystery as saying in 'The Game.' "That is not...seduction. Women of beauty are rarely found alone." He reiterated the same idea multiple times in the debate as well.
Mystery, at his core, believes women of beauty are rarely found alone. Of course, we know that one's world will follow what they believe, so, of course, Mystery's world has only ever reaffirmed this belief. As his life has gone along, I'm sure he's become nothing but emboldened in this belief due to his life experiences that seem to confirm it, seemingly over and over.
Ross has a different belief and, as a result, different experiences.
So, Mystery believes seduction starts in groups, inherently, and Ross believes beautiful women have to go to the grocery store, choose to go to yoga, and the like, and he encounters them there. Mystery encounters his targets out in "the field" which, for him, is synonymous with "bars and clubs."
A debate ensued about whether beautiful women can be found alone or not. "Very very rarely," Mystery said. Well, what else would he say?
"Oh, I see them alone aaaaaaaalllll the time," Jeffries said. What else would he say?
They should've, instead, simply had a conversation about their underlying beliefs.
The second main point of disagreement was, not surprisingly, around the concept of value. Mystery believes that our value, at least to women, is our Survival and Replication value. Ross holds that all humans have inherent value as a part of creation, not predicated on their ability to help one survive nor replicate.
Of course, the "ideal" way to appeal to women would be different for a person that believed one of these premises compared to what a person who believed differently would find to be the ideal way to meet and attract women. It only stands to reason.
The debate should've been, or it simply should've been pointed out that each was correct and had come to reasonable conclusions about what external methods were best based on their internal beliefs about what constitutes value.
Of course you'd act differently if you believed women only valued Survival and Replication value than if you believed all men were inherently equally valuable and that women could appreciate and choose to bond with men based simply on their value as a human (the idea that, for whatever it's worth, I find myself much more closely aligned with).
The more interesting discussion would've been around how humans SHOULD be valued or why each man thought that his concept of value was the more valid one. That would've revealed some interesting insight. Instead, the two debated on whether showing value and qualifying, etc. etc. was necessary or not.
Of course, each was effective for the man practicing his own methods. Why? Because of his own beliefs.
IF you believe and see the world the way Jeffries sees the world, you should grab his books, follow his methods, and give them a shot. They will probably work for you.
If you believe and see the world the way Mystery sees the world, you should grab his books, follow his methods, and give them a shot. They will probably work for you.
This is really brilliant.I have never seen such an insightful youtube comment before, really.
@@dylanb2086 I agree. I have to say I think it stands alone as the most insightful comment in all iw RUclips history. I don't disagree with your assessment at all.
The best comment in a a RUclips video EVER!!!
Great feedback man thanks.
@@ZeryuGames agreed. 😉
I agree with Ross and the nightclub scene.
Personally, I have met more quality women during the day than in a night club.
I find them less defensive during the day than out in clubs/bars, and according to the environment, you can strike some pretty good convo with them, and then get their details for a future meet-up.
BUT for short-term relationships or one night stands, you need to be at a night club/bar.
ross couldn't even congratulate them for having children. mystery seems like he'd talk well behind your back, and ross can't even say anything good to you in front of you.
sadly you cannot interview David X who was a "mentor" of both these two. RIP David X.
Yoooo im def making time to watch this
W GUEST
Good job Ice more of these high value guests, its clear both realised some holes in their game or 'sticking points' and hence saw the opportunity to collaborate at the end without downplaying their own methods. Bring on Gunswitch and owen/ tyler or whomever adds value
Yes, yes, me too anxious to see Gunwitch in this channel 🤩
Thank you for setting this up
The irony is, neither of them had the persuasive skills to convince the other that their method is more effective.
Did all this game stuff break these guys brains? Every interview Ross gets pissed when someone interjects and says they are interrupting him then spends the entire time interrupting himself and he randomly brings up Israel or that he’s Jewish when it has literally nothing to do with what anyone was talking about. Mystery barely even listens and just repeats speeches about his methods like at 1:17:21 he literally just ignores the question and repeats a speech about laugh tracks I swear I’ve heard him say word for word four separate times.
John Anthony is losing his mind 🤣🤣🤣
@@TC-yx1qt
He's probably working overtime trying to think of some new lies to spew about us to cover up how jealous he is or how his business is losing money (His words).
drive.google.com/file/d/1p8GuquAaO85Yd0Gulyy_FgUtumdEx9OT/view?usp=drive_link
John Anthony says all PUA's and dating coaches on youtube, which are 100s, are bad except himself.
Even if he deems someone as good on the rare occasion it takes a short time before he makes a negative hit piece about them too.
John Anthony is just like Papa, worst guy in the industry. Fake and full of shit😂
@@GameGlobalOfficialHe is a crybaby😂😂😂
There are just two methods.
Direct and indirect. No arguing. They are just two methods of approach. Both are good
I would have given a left ball to be in on this conversation. 18 years in New Orleans, French Quarter(2 yrs. street musician, 4 yrs. male stripper, 12 years strip club DJ) studying the human condition i have my own technics based on the fact that women are escape artist and men are adventure seekers and I see everything both Jeffries and Mystery do that I do and did through out the years. but I think I could host a debate like this in a structured way to compare both Jefferies method and Mystery's method side by side apples to apples. Now that being said they're methods are very different but has similarities to compare that both methods can be combined can complement each other. both of these guys are great
You are doing God's work, Ice! Thank you for your dedication and passion!
We need more of them
If Ross avoids bars and night clubs as he says, then he is not even qualified to approve or disapprove of them for the purpose of practicing pick up. WTF LOL
He avoids them because they don't work for his routines. Also his routines are more effective without alcohol. Most bars have a lot of noise and distractions, better to pick a girl up in your daily routines, also cheaper.
@ppumpkin3282 plenty of people pick up in bars and clubs without alcohol. Most hot girls hardly drink.
@@ppumpkin3282 also high end venues have tons of volume. You can't find an environment that's packed with hot girls between 20-30 outside of nightlife establishments.
@@ppumpkin3282and more practical. The average man , and his clientele of 40s-50s don’t have time to waste in a club. I work 40-70hrs a week, We see hotties in our daily routines of shopping groceries and getting gas, or Home Depot, lol
This debate is giving two uncles at the family reunion vibes lol
I’ll put it like this: if I’m at a bar I’m more mystery. If I’m on a date I’m more Ross. 😂
Call you Rosstery
Ross is a pioneer on how women respond but Mystery is more practical. And Ross, whether it's telling a story or not, in your own words, I think I heard you said once "I don't care what people say or think they want. I only care what they respond to."
host a debate with Karisma King and Alex Social, KK teaches rsd concepts such as open all, state management, hook point, isolation, but Alex Social rejects them despite being formerly in RSD. I really want to see them hash out their reasonings.
This video is an important part of manosphere history mate, well done. I remember in the late 90s or early 00s ordering Ross Jeffries CDs :):) That was pre Tinder, dial up modems. Different era. I also remember learning about kino escalation and negging secondhand from a mate who had read Mysterys stuff. Brilliant men. I must admit its a struggle to learn and apply that stuff by yourself. I think they're interesting tools, but every man will have to evaluate whether he can wield these tools himself. I think the discussion highlights some of the challenges in both approaches. Not every man has access to or works well in clubs, not every man is going to meet beautiful women in coffee shops ( they are rarely by themselves as Mystery says) and speak in eloquent NLP language patterns for hours. But i respect both men for what they achieved and shared, and to you all for this video 🎉
Best itroduction on podcast style program that ive heared before get guests feeling velcomed good job
would have loved to have seen Alan Roger Currie in this debate... if he were still alive
I read Mystery Method 20 years ago and have had all the sex with as many women as I could want. Rock solid principles. Ross is stuck in his own definitions and world. He would do well to take some notes from Mystery. Mystery’s principles work 1:1 and day game etc. really well. A LOT of things Ross is talking about are actually parts of Mystery’s teaching but different vocabulary.
Great job job putting this together Ice.
This seems like a clear W for Mystery. Indirect will still work for every girl who is receptive to direct. The inverse is not true.
Night club techniques will still work during the day. Refusing to enter the club eliminates half your targets.
Considering those two points, Mystery Method is more versatile. As a bonus, he seems far more experienced, confident, and calm. Ross just comes off as bitter, and I don’t believe half his stories.
Listned to this full interview a couple days ago. Big fan of Mystery, and would like to know more about Ross Jeffries. To me, the differences started to show between the two when it became clear that Ross didn't like club atmosphere's and Mystery did. This is a major distinction between the two of them. I can remember recently Mystery poo pooing picking girls up off the street instead of a high end clubs and I realized from this interview that was actually kind of of an issue with Mystery, especially when Ross was pointing out that he's trying to help the guy from Podunk Idaho and not just the rich guys living in HollyWood and I give hom major points for that. I give Mystery points for trying more often to find common grrund instead of trying to appear better. Mystery essentially ended the debate saying, why not learn Both styles? And I have to agree. There's value to both approaches and I think they're both worth learning.
Mr. Ice you’ve out done yourself once again. You always seem to have the best on your channel. Wonder if you know who will make a video about this.
Not into method acting to get a girl but Mystery is light years ahead of Ross. He actually has a system and pointers that put a guy on track almost scientifically
First, I want to give each their roses for being legends in the space. This dialog has many takeaways! I felt like Ross came there with a mission to sell, which is unfortunate because you could see it in needing to correct little wording or techniques of Mystery, trying to be the dominant and the "right" technique. Which is unfortunate because if he came in a bit more neutral, with a respect for the epicness of just these minds coming together... There is always room to learn if you're open to learning. Several times he tried to back Mystery into a corner with a ah I got you moment, by trying to get him to say he used certain techniques. I found it a bit annoying how he constantly kept pointing at his shirt like he was trying to treat us like one of his girls he's putting under a trance lol I appreciated Mystery's straight forward mentioning his product once. I also liked how he carried himself during the interview, even under tough critique at times from Ross. I felt he came more neutral to the exchange, creating a path for meaningful dialog. I think this interview showed that it's not either or, both have had great success. Both have methods that would better many men with overall game and both have more specialized techniques. It's great to see them both around the community still and this was value packed from both sides! Ty
Ross is also a genious in his own way.
I didn't learn a lot about his method, but I did find his recommendation to Meditate insteresting. I don't know that must about NLP and I'm surprised if it works. I am interested in Ross though.
is he though? he just rebranded NLP for getting laid. also, he seems spiteful and constantly stopping others from doing to him what he does to them
He’s lame and autistic and so cringe
The difference is that Ross actually knows how to teach you how to consciously raise your sexual energy and let the presence of this energy lead everything. You wouldn't need phases at all when everything naturally arises from your balls.
There's a deep collective unconscious experience that it seems like some of Mystery's students are not aware of or even see the importance for. Some people are naturally aware of this, but like Ross was stressing, everybody would benefit off having that groundwork to become self-learning, having an applicable understanding of that NLP subconscious/unconscious aspect we all share. Mystery uses this of course yet doesn't seem to see the importance of it or teach it or reveal it.
stepo 1 be good looking
Very astute observation. Mystery has real issues with the supernatural
You get it my friend you are the only sane in this comment section, the people going in mystery direction will search for new method in 5-10 years and then they will realise what Ross is actually saying and then go for Ross and Get the transformation they always needed
This is awesome seeing this after reading the book for the thousandth time. Didn't know this haopened until now.
Combine these two, and you have raw power!
It's crazy because they both are already raw power... they'll just fusion dance into Rosstery, or Mysteffries.
Tell Mystery, RSD Jeffy still waiting for his magician coat that Erik took LOL
this is my Chomsky v. Foucault
I want to see these guys vs The Chad
Mystery is a Genius but this exposure to Ross with video evidence shows Mystery is not the most empathetic guide and doesn’t seem to understand that not everything needs to be done while in a club or a party situation. Most guys just want to be able to approach a “girl next door” type of girl. Most guys are starting from Zero and it’s much more beneficial to be able to talk to the cute girl at the counter or the cute girl at the library, bus stop, university/school, work, etc. Plus those women are probably the better candidates anyways. Also women will probably find it more romantic and magical if you met in her every day life where she least expects it. The less scripted and more organic the approach the better.
(Also Mystery kept cutting Ross off, missing the point, being a contrarian, smart and doesn’t understand NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO BE IN THE CLUBS! 😂)
Good feedback, thanks.
and yet finding a girl all by herself is like finding a needle in a haystack especially for a newbie who is practicisng. Even if you look at exposure therapy. the more you're expose to a certain situation the easier it gets to overcome the anxiety, gain the confidence and become more competent. There has been countless times when i go for daygame to approach single girls and all i could find is one or two of them in an hour. It can be a waste of time. So i don't think it's a bad idea to go in a public gathering and meet lots of women in a span of time and get better at game, that would help you densitize yourself so when you end up finding a cute girl at a counter, it's easier for you to approach.
Keyboard Jockey comment.
I grew up studying every pua under the sun and it was always attraction guys focus on deep inner game, david D'Angelo, wayne elise, etc, and guys who want to get laid, mystery etc. What I found is that sure the mystery method will get you laid HOWEVER, you are gonna be a social robot. It took me a while to learn how to be social after all the canned responses i needed to learn. Only when i stumbled on NLP and some things from thr Art of Charm, did I really start to understand how language works. What Ross is offering (to a degree) is whats called the law of requisite variety. Take two models. NLP in general does not fit into every model (MM etc), but every model fits into NLP. NLP allows one to become a more flexible thinker in general (many paths to the same destination) whereas Mystery Method, you MUST follow the steps specifically (or sequentially) to achieve the outcome. Mystery developed an effective model, that is limited to being effective ONLY as well as you follow the steps.
I believe both have good intentions, the skills i continue to learn stem from NLP, in which I feel Mystery could benefit from for himself and his system greatly. Ive learned a lot from both. Theres no finish line w this stuff guys :) its good to zoom out once in a while.
Beautiful 🔥
Having coached hundreds of their former students. There’s value in both methods but neither process is very practical for “most” people. I had to create a whole system to undue the nonsense students had burned into their brains. “Normalization” where I remove endless gamey BS and return them to a genuine state. They won’t go back to “being themselves” but a far superior, competent, and squared away member of society.
I’ve been an underground coach for nearly 15 years. Any person who’s taking steps to try to become better is 80% of the way there. I applaud these two for helping millions take that step.
- Joe Gunn
Great conversation with a ton of great info. I think you did a very good job with the setup and they had the idea of a good faith discussion with each comment.
These guys are both brilliant but have reached their success from different pathways and I think have more in common than they realize? They I think have different terminologies for what they do but they're kind of doing similar things but call it something different or can 'hack' or do something to expedite that process.
The thing I see Jeffries get wrong is when Mystery called it 'Art' Jeffries disagreed. It isn't a science like baking a cake, you are an artist because it's different with each person. It's not a plug and play follow the steps, you do your thing and see the expected response to allow you to escalate. It's not exactly the same like baking a cake. I started baking recently and if you deviate from the recipe in the slightest way can really change the end result in usually a bad way. With pickup, you can spend more time here to allow for more comfort or whatever. It's not the same amount of time for each level for each person, it's different. That's where the artist comes in.
Good stuff, nice to see Mystery back at it but with the mindset of a middle aged father vs someone still trying to live that life.
this ross Jeffries looking to have a full on barking match 😂
good debate, we need one of Neil Strauss VS these masters pickup artists, it would be something legendary
He gave up game, no longer part of what he does
@@AndresDX1You talk about Neil like he “ain’t got guns … what do you think he sold em all?”
The reality as someone who's done PUA is it's good to have basic PUA skills but it's not necessary beyond that, stat maxing +interesting lifestyle > PUA. They might be MPUA's but did they cultivate their maximal potential? The answer is no.
I've try both techniques and the Mystery methods by far has been more successful for me. speed seduction is more complex, however, it has its place.
Conclusion: If you live or want to live a hollywoodesk life in a big city, then go with mystery. If you are a guy who just wants to learn how to seduce a pretty woman no matter the environment (which is 99% of guys), then Ross's approach is infinitely more helpful. The true measure of a teacher is his ability to teach self-reliance. You ain't getting that in 3 days hanging around mystery and his over the top entourage. Ross points this out several times and mystery's response is that he screens out individuals he believes will disrupt the group - interpret that as you will. I'm not denying mystery's methods work if you happen to attend his bootcamp, but they work in a specific environment ruled by specific social norms - clubs and parties. What happens when you're all by yourself at the grocery store and you see a cute girl? You're gonna conjure up two hot girls around you in order to raise your perceived value? This is where actual game comes into play instead of these cheap easy fixes that you "learn" in 3 days. Nobody learns anything worth learning in only 3 days. You think you're gonna evolve to become a social and seductive man in 3 days? Let's be real for a second here. What mystery sells is a hedonistic experience in one of the most notorious nightlife cities on the planet - be it New York, Toronto, LA, etc. You're gonna get your money's worth for sure, but don't expect much once you go back to your ordinary life - assuming he even accepts ordinary people into his bootcamp. Again, Ross points this out several times. Draw your own conclusions. What I believe is that one guy speaks to 99% of men, while the other is promoting a Hangover fantasy for three days.
Legendary ❤ Thanks to the internet for making it possible
Around 1:15 mystery says what you do wrong in the night reveals the rights for tomorrow. Something like that he says. It’s very true I just had this happen to me yesterday and today. Thank you for your time mystery .