1973 Suzuki TS185 was my very first bike! Bought it about half way through my Junior year in high school. Only problem I ever had with it was the rubber cushioning dampers wearing out in the rear wheel hub destroying it! Got it fixed under warranty and never had a problem with it again! Sold it a couple of years later when I joined the Navy.
Another lovely job Dale. And you made the most of that scored bore. The piston comparison was great. Made me go back to the workshop manual for my 1969 F3 to reminisce. Cheers, Peter.
Good morning Dale. Another great job, It is what it is sometimes. You knocked it out of the park even though this was a tough one. Another silk purse out of a sows ear.
Hey Dale, maybe that's where the saying comes from..."different strokes for different folks"! Either way, it's all good fun. Thanks again for sharing the journey with us.
Hey Gigi, hope all is going well down under. Yeah, this piston comparison was fun for me. Learned a lot myself and a little reminiscing about the good ole days. Simpler times.....oh how I long for them.
Thanks Darren, I am having so much fun playing with these old bikes. I am glad there are other likeminded folks out there, I never would have thought it.
I saw a Kawasaki Centurion 100 flattracker at the 1/8 mile races in Sturgis in the 70's, and from the bleachers it looked just like big bikes on the longer ovals. The reed valve Centurion was certainly the horsepower king, and the fellow riding it knew how to use it. I always marvelled at the power of the CanAms reed valve engines also.
Hey Wayne, yes, those green streaks were fast no doubt. I also use to race at the short track at Sturgis. Love the entire black hills area. I lived in Rapid City twice while serving at Ellsworth AFB. First time in the late 70s, then in the early 90s.
Yeah, I had one of those Kawasaki 100's. Fast! Dale, on that bore and stroke thing. Around about that era, they started thinking that a longer stroke gave them more area for ports, and the smaller bore and piston head created less heat. They could cheat the compression up a bit, plus cooler mixture meant more power. If you look into the 250 Suzukis of that era, they redesigned it with longer stroke too. Nice video, as always. Thanks, Robert
Hey Dana, I love the shirt too, my wife got it for my birthday. I remember Joel Robert and Rodger Decoster wearing them in the early 70s. Always wanted a Husky, never got the chance to own one though. Maybe I will find one!
Interesting video Dale. Sometimes you can't polish a turd but despite the challenges, you've resurrected another old girl and thats always a good thing. 😁
Yeah, Steve your right, challenges aside this is a cool bike, as all were from the 70s, I am sure enjoying playing with these bikes. Saving as many as I can. I can't save them all though, I need help!
Like a true professional, you are concerned for the customer. As you mentioned, the scoring is above where the rings land, so it should be fine. If you would use it, then I am sure it is good to go!
Hey Dale! You’re right, ring compressors for two strokes are pretty darn useless. I tried the new style that comes with ratcheting pliers. WAY easier the old way. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
You bet!!! Thank you for all the experience you’re sharing! It’s really made this bike fun to work on. I’d restored lots of motorcycles back in the early 2000s but they all ran pretty good. Now after this bike and watching your videos I’m happy to say I’ve got this thing running very well!!! Thanks again!!!
Another really great job Dale I'm new to your channel I find it very intresting seeing the stuff you do. I'm waiting to see the exhaust being made on the bike with the yellow tank that you had to move back a small bit. so I'm watching you from UK, here I ride a Yamaha DT125R YPVS 1998 Its a great little bike goes very well. ok see you again next time From Brian Stephens.
Thanks for stopping by Brian, hope to see you in the shop from time to time. Lots of different things going on here. I too am wondering if I can get this pipe made. It is a new adventure for me. I have a lot of folks from the UK here, they are all hard-core bike guys and gals. We all have a bunch of fun. Welcome.
Also Dale, we find four corner seizures are most often due to improper warm up before too much power use. You might want to advise the customer on this one... Robert
Dale I need help 322 miles on this 1974 175dt barn find seals gone so I rebuilt it honed jug put new rings in it SD hard to find all measures out good so after 12 miles on it only got 90 psi pump is rebuilt set to specs runs awsome I premixed gas at 40 to1 any ideals do I needto run it for 20 more miles thank you for any advise never ran in to this
(SD hard to find, what does this mean?) (90 psi is this compression reading?) Please spell out abbreviations and use punctuation. I need to know this stuff in order to try to help. What was piston to cylinder clearance after hone? Pump rebuilt to specs, what are these specs? Why are you running premix if you're running an oil pump that's been rebuilt to specs? Were oil pump and carburetor cables adjusted BEFORE oil pump was adjusted? Not trying to be mean, just need clear concise information in order to understand the situation.
SD means standard rings everything measures out just not understanding why I only have 90 psi shouldn't it be higher or does the rings need to seat I used a hand hone just to break the glaze to set rings and thank you .
Hey Robert, you should have closer to 130 psi compression reading, but it should run with 90 psi, although not well. The piston to cylinder clearance of .003 inch that you state you have should be fine. But the 4mm ring end gap is way too much, should be closer to .14 to .35mm (.005 to .014 inches)
Hey Don, I remember the CanAm bikes, but never had any experience riding or working on them. Just got beat at the track from time to time. I just like them all from that era.
Hey Alex, not on a bike, but I did a series on a two stroke lawn boy mower, think there are 3 videos that deal with resleeving. ruclips.net/p/PLQyl8BUThyaJm-h7qaXUj2dcnry3pkQz1&si=9GG9Wv0Vs_VqTY_i
@@montana2strokeracer Thanks for responding Dale, I'd naively thought that one could purchase a liner with the ports already cut and after boring the old one out the liner would be fitted with the ports lined up and Bob's your uncle - all done! MUCH more work than I had anticipated. Did LA Sleeve spec the interference for you, I had a local engine shop screw up a barrel on a KH400 Kawasaki triple and he offered to resleeve it or to try and locate a new barrel but indicated he'd use a 5 thou interference if he did the resleeve. Getting warmer up here finally Green grass on the mountain slopes and old tumble weeds blowin' around with the spring breezes.
Hey Alex, yes when you buy a sleeve from someone like LA sleeve the ports will already be in the sleeve. But you pay dearly for that, or you can map your own ports on the old one and transfer it to the new general-purpose sleeve, (no holes). Thats what I used on the lawn mower. The lawn mower ports were easy compared to a motorcycle; it really was easy with the tilting head on the Bridgeport. Yes, LA sleeve recommended a .004 interference fit. Yes, spring has sprung here also, no leaves yet but grass is turning green.
I don't think I have actually spoke about blueprinting, however a lot of what I do is blueprinting, such as matching ports, lapping a head, matching gaskets to machined surfaces, etc. Just haven't called it that. That is a good subject for a future video, thank you very much.
just a thought, on your Suzuki GT-350 triple, how about the popular vintage street tracker look? there were some real GT-350 flat track bikes, though not to popular. seems like a fun project with the low profile lights and a number plate would be very cool and possible resale bike. i for one always like the flat track style, to old to race, but not to old to ride around town on one.
Hey Frank, yes that would be neat, but as I said in the intro..... I have no title, and not interested in getting one. So, a flat tracker it will probably be. To me it is more about the project than riding. Sure, I will get it out here and ride it, but not out in traffic or that kind of thing. It will be fun to get it out on some dirt roads and tear a tire up.
@@montana2strokeracer see what your saying, i have several bikes without title, just ride around the neighbor hood its a private street no cops. just like looking at them. one is set up like my old tracker and brings back youthful fun memories.
I think that tall piston is why the old ts 185 ran as long as they did without a rebuild. The higher rpm nature of the Kawasaki is probly why you only run across the 100cc versions in running condition.
On a 2s the longer the stroke the taller the transfer and exhaust ports will be even with the same port timing . These taller ports have more area and therefore have the potential to flow more air and make more power without being peaky. - The rotary valve allows you to have another transfer port at the rear of the cyl. Yamaha was able to add another “boost port” when they went to the reed valve design.
I am finding it interesting what the manufacturers were up to back then. Yes, there was another transfer port right where you would expect to find an intake. I don't claim to be an engineer or anything of such, just some observations on my part. I think you nailed it! Thanks for the insight.
Hey Jim, they are really easy to make, just follow the video. I use the one I made at least once a week. I can't sell it I need it to build cables. There was a guy that made some and were selling them on Ebay. Can't remember what his name was. Just look for birdcage tool.
Only time is if I bore them on the lathe. You can look up one I did about a year back Suzuki TC90 I think was the last one I bored on the lathe. I hear the Harley guys use them for boring and honing. More of a 4 stroke thing, really see no need on 2 strokes. The only reason I use them on the lathe is it is part of the fixture that holds the cylinder.
Very nice job sir, you took the time required to line the bore up properly and you were right in not going over the 2.5 thou more than that would have been worse than better. That engine will run just fine with those slight score marks. Like you said its below the rings so it will be fine. I would love to hear it run actually
I would love to rebuild vintage bikes like these old Yamahas as my semi retirement job. I build complex automated work cells right now mainly the controls work but some mechanical assemblies as well. I enjoy it and think I would enjoy working on bikes even more as I do all the service on my own bikes
Another one saved! Very interesting how a rotary valve totally changes cylinder wear pattern. Much enjoyed the detail on how you set everything up.
I find so much of this stuff very interesting and rewarding. It's all about having fun you know.
1973 Suzuki TS185 was my very first bike! Bought it about half way through my Junior year in high school. Only problem I ever had with it was the rubber cushioning dampers wearing out in the rear wheel hub destroying it! Got it fixed under warranty and never had a problem with it again! Sold it a couple of years later when I joined the Navy.
They are great bikes, I am looking for one myself, would love to have the 76 model, but would probably take any that pop up.
Another very interesting video. Always late to the party as I am a long way from the USA.
Thank you, never too late my friend and always room in the shop for another fellow motorcycle guy. Thanks for stopping by.
First up. That F7 has an amazing engine . Very interesting video.
Indeed, it is John, I am just not that familiar with them but learning.
Another lovely job Dale. And you made the most of that scored bore.
The piston comparison was great. Made me go back to the workshop manual for my 1969 F3 to reminisce.
Cheers, Peter.
Thanks Peter, I really think it will be fine, no use wasting a bore size. I would run it on mine. Oh you have an F3? The real Bushwacker.
@@montana2strokeracer Yes the real Bushwacker. Had it back in the day. I bought it new but traded it in on an A65L BSA Lightning.
Thanks Dale, the explanation makes sense. I REALLY appreciate what you've taught me in the last few months!!
great job dale you could go up to next size but just wasting a bore im sure it will be fine next video please
I agree, that bore will be fine!
Yeah I think so too Mark, its good to go, why waste another bore size.
Good morning Dale.
Another great job,
It is what it is sometimes. You knocked it out of the park even though this was a tough one.
Another silk purse out of a sows ear.
Yeah, it worked out, but I really don't like them not to clean, but what I hate worse is to waste a bore size.
Dale great job and great show. Keep up the good work.👍🏁💯
Thanks Bill!
Hey Dale, maybe that's where the saying comes from..."different strokes for different folks"! Either way, it's all good fun. Thanks again for sharing the journey with us.
Hey Gigi, hope all is going well down under. Yeah, this piston comparison was fun for me. Learned a lot myself and a little reminiscing about the good ole days. Simpler times.....oh how I long for them.
@@montana2strokeracer Just keep doing what you love and it will keep you in the zone. That's the place to be, especially when things get complicated.
Great advice Gigi, you can bet your bottom dollar I will stay in the zone. It feels right!
Another great job Dale and good to see how it's done, very nice work !
Thanks Darren, I am having so much fun playing with these old bikes. I am glad there are other likeminded folks out there, I never would have thought it.
I would definitely run it as it is and save the next bore size. Another one saved Dale.
Best wishes, Dean.
I agree with you Dean, just hate wasting a bore size. This one will indeed last a long time.
I saw a Kawasaki Centurion 100 flattracker at the 1/8 mile races in Sturgis in the 70's, and from the bleachers it looked just like big bikes on the longer ovals. The reed valve Centurion was certainly the horsepower king, and the fellow riding it knew how to use it. I always marvelled at the power of the CanAms reed valve engines also.
Hey Wayne, yes, those green streaks were fast no doubt. I also use to race at the short track at Sturgis. Love the entire black hills area. I lived in Rapid City twice while serving at Ellsworth AFB. First time in the late 70s, then in the early 90s.
Yeah, I had one of those Kawasaki 100's. Fast!
Dale, on that bore and stroke thing. Around about that era, they started thinking that a longer stroke gave them more area for ports, and the smaller bore and piston head created less heat. They could cheat the compression up a bit, plus cooler mixture meant more power.
If you look into the 250 Suzukis of that era, they redesigned it with longer stroke too.
Nice video, as always.
Thanks,
Robert
I can certainly understand the thought process. It just seemed strange to me. Just didn't mess with rotary valve engines too much.
Great video and love the retro t-shirt. Sure wish I had my old 500 Husqvarna for you to bore.
Hey Dana, I love the shirt too, my wife got it for my birthday. I remember Joel Robert and Rodger Decoster wearing them in the early 70s. Always wanted a Husky, never got the chance to own one though. Maybe I will find one!
Interesting video Dale. Sometimes you can't polish a turd but despite the challenges, you've resurrected another old girl and thats always a good thing. 😁
Yeah, Steve your right, challenges aside this is a cool bike, as all were from the 70s, I am sure enjoying playing with these bikes. Saving as many as I can. I can't save them all though, I need help!
I remember the Suzuki 185. My friend had one fun little bike. Great power to wt ratio
They are really great bikes, power of a 250, weight of a 125, you are right great power to weight ratio.
Like a true professional, you are concerned for the customer. As you mentioned, the scoring is above where the rings land, so it should be fine. If you would use it, then I am sure it is good to go!
I think so too Pete. Just no use and wasting a bore size.
well thanks for leaving me a sign in space at the bottom. monday 5:57am
You got it Frank, try to be on time next time.
Hey Dale! You’re right, ring compressors for two strokes are pretty darn useless. I tried the new style that comes with ratcheting pliers. WAY easier the old way. 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
I have to admit I have tried a lot of different ones, always go back to my fingers. Now you know, thanks for the review.
You bet!!! Thank you for all the experience you’re sharing! It’s really made this bike fun to work on. I’d restored lots of motorcycles back in the early 2000s but they all ran pretty good. Now after this bike and watching your videos I’m happy to say I’ve got this thing running very well!!! Thanks again!!!
Another really great job Dale I'm new to your channel I find it very intresting seeing the stuff you do. I'm waiting to see the exhaust being made on the bike with the yellow tank that you had to move back a small bit. so I'm watching you from UK, here I ride a Yamaha DT125R YPVS 1998 Its a great little bike goes very well. ok see you again next time From Brian Stephens.
Thanks for stopping by Brian, hope to see you in the shop from time to time. Lots of different things going on here. I too am wondering if I can get this pipe made. It is a new adventure for me. I have a lot of folks from the UK here, they are all hard-core bike guys and gals. We all have a bunch of fun. Welcome.
Also Dale, we find four corner seizures are most often due to improper warm up before too much power use. You might want to advise the customer on this one...
Robert
This is a new machine to him, this damage was done prior to him owning the bike.
Dale I need help 322 miles on this 1974 175dt barn find seals gone so I rebuilt it honed jug put new rings in it SD hard to find all measures out good so after 12 miles on it only got 90 psi pump is rebuilt set to specs runs awsome I premixed gas at 40 to1 any ideals do I needto run it for 20 more miles thank you for any advise never ran in to this
(SD hard to find, what does this mean?) (90 psi is this compression reading?) Please spell out abbreviations and use punctuation. I need to know this stuff in order to try to help. What was piston to cylinder clearance after hone? Pump rebuilt to specs, what are these specs? Why are you running premix if you're running an oil pump that's been rebuilt to specs? Were oil pump and carburetor cables adjusted BEFORE oil pump was adjusted? Not trying to be mean, just need clear concise information in order to understand the situation.
SD means standard rings everything measures out just not understanding why I only have 90 psi shouldn't it be higher or does the rings need to seat I used a hand hone just to break the glaze to set rings and thank you .
I'm running pre mix to help break in the rings
Piston to cylinder clearance was 3 thousands ring end gap 4 mm
Hey Robert, you should have closer to 130 psi compression reading, but it should run with 90 psi, although not well. The piston to cylinder clearance of .003 inch that you state you have should be fine. But the 4mm ring end gap is way too much, should be closer to .14 to .35mm (.005 to .014 inches)
I wonder how those numbers stack up against the CanAm Rotax MX175. It was a pretty hot rotary valve as well.
Hey Don, I remember the CanAm bikes, but never had any experience riding or working on them. Just got beat at the track from time to time. I just like them all from that era.
Interesting, do you ever try to get a new liner to fit? Thanks for taking the time to put these together - very, very useful info Dale.
Hey Alex, not on a bike, but I did a series on a two stroke lawn boy mower, think there are 3 videos that deal with resleeving. ruclips.net/p/PLQyl8BUThyaJm-h7qaXUj2dcnry3pkQz1&si=9GG9Wv0Vs_VqTY_i
@@montana2strokeracer Thanks for responding Dale, I'd naively thought that one could purchase a liner with the ports already cut and after boring the old one out the liner would be fitted with the ports lined up and Bob's your uncle - all done! MUCH more work than I had anticipated. Did LA Sleeve spec the interference for you, I had a local engine shop screw up a barrel on a KH400 Kawasaki triple and he offered to resleeve it or to try and locate a new barrel but indicated he'd use a 5 thou interference if he did the resleeve. Getting warmer up here finally Green grass on the mountain slopes and old tumble weeds blowin' around with the spring breezes.
Hey Alex, yes when you buy a sleeve from someone like LA sleeve the ports will already be in the sleeve. But you pay dearly for that, or you can map your own ports on the old one and transfer it to the new general-purpose sleeve, (no holes). Thats what I used on the lawn mower. The lawn mower ports were easy compared to a motorcycle; it really was easy with the tilting head on the Bridgeport. Yes, LA sleeve recommended a .004 interference fit. Yes, spring has sprung here also, no leaves yet but grass is turning green.
Yes, I know something about the F7. Wish I still had mine.
Really neat bikes Dennis, you should try to find one, they are just as much fun now as they were then.
Dale, nice job on this...
question: have you ever explained or performed 'blueprinting' an engine?
I don't think I have actually spoke about blueprinting, however a lot of what I do is blueprinting, such as matching ports, lapping a head, matching gaskets to machined surfaces, etc. Just haven't called it that. That is a good subject for a future video, thank you very much.
I'm really a fan of your work Dale. I look forward to you doing a video on it! It's always been kind of a mystery to me.
just a thought, on your Suzuki GT-350 triple, how about the popular vintage street tracker look? there were some real GT-350 flat track bikes, though not to popular. seems like a fun project with the low profile lights and a number plate would be very cool and possible resale bike. i for one always like the flat track style, to old to race, but not to old to ride around town on one.
Hey Frank, yes that would be neat, but as I said in the intro..... I have no title, and not interested in getting one. So, a flat tracker it will probably be. To me it is more about the project than riding. Sure, I will get it out here and ride it, but not out in traffic or that kind of thing. It will be fun to get it out on some dirt roads and tear a tire up.
@@montana2strokeracer see what your saying, i have several bikes without title, just ride around the neighbor hood its a private street no cops. just like looking at them. one is set up like my old tracker and brings back youthful fun memories.
Good job brother. You can’t win them all.
Nor do I try.....Thanks Cain.
I think that tall piston is why the old ts 185 ran as long as they did without a rebuild. The higher rpm nature of the Kawasaki is probly why you only run across the 100cc versions in running condition.
I sure can't argue with anything you said. I just like all of them, this hobby is the greatest, so much fun.
On a 2s the longer the stroke the taller the transfer and exhaust ports will be even with the same port timing . These taller ports have more area and therefore have the potential to flow more air and make more power without being peaky.
-
The rotary valve allows you to have another transfer port at the rear of the cyl. Yamaha was able to add another “boost port” when they went to the reed valve design.
I am finding it interesting what the manufacturers were up to back then. Yes, there was another transfer port right where you would expect to find an intake. I don't claim to be an engineer or anything of such, just some observations on my part. I think you nailed it! Thanks for the insight.
Hi Dale, unrelated but would you sell the bird cage tool?
Hey Jim, they are really easy to make, just follow the video. I use the one I made at least once a week. I can't sell it I need it to build cables. There was a guy that made some and were selling them on Ebay. Can't remember what his name was. Just look for birdcage tool.
who makes the tool holder for the boring bar? thanks.
It is from Mesa Tools. Think this exact one has been discontinued, but they have a replacement.
@@montana2strokeracer thanks.
I love my Kawasaki.
I understand why, they are really cool bikes, I love the laser striping of the 70s
do you ever use torque plates?
Only time is if I bore them on the lathe. You can look up one I did about a year back Suzuki TC90 I think was the last one I bored on the lathe. I hear the Harley guys use them for boring and honing. More of a 4 stroke thing, really see no need on 2 strokes. The only reason I use them on the lathe is it is part of the fixture that holds the cylinder.
Yes that is cool Peace out
👌👍👍👍👍👍👍
Interesting!
I think so too Jack, its cool to bring back some info from the past. Think folks enjoyed it.
😉😉😉😉
Very nice job sir, you took the time required to line the bore up properly and you were right in not going over the 2.5 thou more than that would have been worse than better.
That engine will run just fine with those slight score marks. Like you said its below the rings so it will be fine.
I would love to hear it run actually
Thanks Dave, the owner is riding this bike, and it is running great he says. Good enough for me, I would not have hesitated to run that cylinder.
I would love to rebuild vintage bikes like these old Yamahas as my semi retirement job. I build complex automated work cells right now mainly the controls work but some mechanical assemblies as well. I enjoy it and think I would enjoy working on bikes even more as I do all the service on my own bikes
I understand completely, I worked and bought machines so I could do this when I retired. I am having the time of my life. Highly recommend doing it.