Why I Ditched 12 Speed Drivetrains
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2025
- As mountain bike drivetrains went from multiple to a single chainring up front and 29ers took over, larger gear range became a necessity. At the same time as this range increased, the number of gears on the hub did too, ultimately settling in at 12 speeds. Over the years I've ridden a lot of these 12 speed drivetrains, but have also been putting in a lot of time on a 9 speed from Box with a 50t cog on the back. I've been mostly happy with that set up, but it got me thinking: do we all have too many gears on our bikes?
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I love my 1x12. I love having less maintenance, less clutter, plenty of space for a dropper lever. The wide gear range suits me perfectly. I use my hardtail for commuting and alot of technical singletrack. The gearing is ideal for a relatively flat town and super hilly mtb trails. I have a Deore M6100 group, been using it hard for a year and everything is working perfectly.
Absolutely love it.
I was sceptical about ditching my 3 x 9, but riding on hilly off road a lot of the time , there is no way I would go back from 1 x 12, so much easier and forgiving than 3 x 9. 3 x 9 is better on road riding though .
3x9 is my sweet spot. I enjoy the old "three ring circus", as one local bike tech had called it, because I find it easier to get into the right gear for what I'm riding. Instead of running up and down a cassette with a 1x12 or 1x11, it is selecting the chainring and fine tuning with the rear cogs. Cogs that have very small jumps between each other. The farthest my 11-34 cassette jumps is four teeth. With these together I can make big jumps in my gearing for tackling hills, for example, by slipping into the smallest ring while still having narrower cogs for maintaining cadence when I get to flats or downhills.
I don't know if I've ever ridden anything aside from an entry level 3x drivetrain, so maybe my opinion is tainted haha
@RideYearRound Older Deore and Alivio groupsets are things of beauty, in my opinion.
@@Kattbirb well said. 3 x front only went to crap when they got rid of friction shifting.
fact and prob the best ratio too and my kid bike , and for 30yr has just been marketing lol
@@Kattbirb Alivio that came stock on my 2019 Kona Lava Dome has been my favorite drive train I have ever used. Agreed.
I ride a 3x9 and love it. Same bike since about 2004, steel lugged frame and its like a part of my body.
I use 2x9 but sometimes on some hilly sections i miss the third ring ...
@@MsTatakaiA solid 2x system, with a nice wide range cassette, is about all you need. 10sp 11-38 with a 46/30 on the front.
@@Ferrichrome yeah, thx ! i tought on upgrading this gear setup =P will see what i will do
@@Ferrichrome I run 46/30 and an 11-34 cassette. Perfect for me.
Fair enough! No amount of ludditery will make me ever like 3x though 😅
Fair enough. But will any amount of common sense make you like a 3x? 😜😂
FYI, If an older technology performs better, and give a better experience, you are not a Luddite for preferring it over newer, and poorer performing tech.
Never heard the word “ludditery”
English workers who opposed and destroyed new tech
Perfectly applied!
😂
2 x 10 is ideal for me, on a bike about ten years old (29"). Almost free of maintenance, reliable and durable. And you have all ratios you can possibly need.
nah dude a 1x10 with a battery that gives you PEDAL ASSISTANCE for riding uphills is all you need for climbing literally I've gone from Fresno to Yosemite National park
I have an old 3x9 mountain bike that I turned into a to and from work commuter. I ditched two of the chain rings on the front, keeping just the middle chain ring. It works great and give me all I need for a commuter bike.
26" wheels need more gear range in order to produce the same speed range as a 29" wheel at a given pedal cadence. So when we went to 29" wheels, where each turn of the crank means longer distances, so does the incremental increase in crank RPM's increases the distance travelled exponentially because the wheel is larger.
Going to single ring and double rings removed gear range (and lower gears), which is why we needed to add them back.
I use a 1x10 on all my mtbs. 34 chainring 11-36 cassette.
So good to see someone with the same feeling! i have 1x9 for all basher/commuter/gravel, 1x10 for gravel racing bike, and 3x10 for XC MTB racing- never feel like im just wearing out expensive parts
Good luck finding a modern geometry MTB that can take a front derailleur
@@malcolm777b I'm racing a ~2018 Giant hardtail with almost everything upgraded lol, comes in about 12kg
@@leburgh8242 7 year old frame (they're on 25 model year now). And who's making those now?
@@malcolm777b oh you mean buying a new bike? I don't do that lol
@@malcolm777b also if they are standard threaded BB you can still get BB-mounting front derailleurs for 2 and 3x
60 yr old here in Massachusetts doing the trails, I've been happy with a microshift Advent X with a 32 up front
I’ve got a Deore 12 speed on my geared mountain bike and I’m in the camp of “it’s fine”. I don’t need the speeds, but I need the range. I wouldn’t be apposed to losing some of those gears and dropping to a 10 or 9 speed as long as the jumps are consistent and make sense.
All that said, the best number of speeds is 1. My single speed cobbled together bike is the worst/best/most favorite one I own.
I've got a 1X10 and a 1x12 bike. There really isn't a big difference in performance while 1x10 drivetrain is a LOT cheaper to service and replace.
I need my high gears FAR more than I need the low ones. 1x11 hits the sweet spot when looking at a price/performance ratio.
1x11 is king
I have similar set up on my surly Ogre. 12s Shimano RD for its capacity, 9s box two 11-50T cassettes, 9s Shimano XT chain and a Microshift 9s shifter. The main reason is fatter and more robust chain. With one press of the shifter, I can drop 4 gears. That’s almost 50% drop in total gear instantly. Very very happy with the setup.
My mtb (2024 Kona Honzo) is 1x11 Deore. Works great, but notice the jumps between gears a bit. My new fatty (2024 Giant Yukon 2) is 1x12 Deore. Closer steps are nice. I commute on my fatbike and mtb, although my route is 90% singletrack, there are lots of climbs, some sustained. My last fatbike was a 1x10 XT Pugsley. Lowest gear was definitely a bailout gear.
I prefer more gears in a one-by setup. I have many thousands of Km's on triples and doubles, on the road and in the woods. 3x8 was great. On our east coast trails back in Nova Scotia, we usually swapped the big ring for a bash guard on trail bikes. XC, specially racing, we stuck with a triple. I think i only had a few 9 speed bikes in the fleet, before 10 speed. Then a 5 year cycling hiatus. Jumped into 11 speed at that point.
I can see CUES and the MicroSHIFT lines benefitting some folks. As good as 7/8/9 was, its getting harder to find decent level kit for them. And a lot of new bikes are generally 1x specific.
I dont mind keeping 11 and 12 speed going and tuned, but I am a bike mechanic, so parts are cheap and I can do it in my sleep. Good chain hygiene, cable upkeep, straight hanger and you're good to go.
I'm finding, counter-intuitively, that I'm actually less of a curmudgeon as I age, and like the availability of current gear.
That said, I still prefer rigid bikes. Don't mind mechanical brakes. Shimano for stop and go. DT Swiss hubs. And steel is real. But some carbon is OK.
Well said.
Imho anything over 10 speed is superflouos and marketing bs..
Because i don't do real gnarly stuff, i'm still a big fan of a FD.
2x9 or 3x8 was the tech peak imo of longevity, reliability and ease of maintenance
Save the front derailleur!
I found that the front derailleur just added maintenance hassle back when I rode one. So many different things could stop it from shifting well. I also found that I had to replace the chain at about 0.5% wear (even though they recommend replacing at 0.75% with an 8 speed). Past there, I found that front shifting stopped working and once it hit 0.75%, my front middle chainring had to be replaced.
I'd much rather have the reduced range of a Microshift Acolyte 1x8 or a CUES 1x9 than have to deal with a front derailleur again.
Front derailleur is amazing to use... ez to engage and disengage gear ... tap tap climb up !
Totally agree. I was contemplating a single speed, but decided to go with a Microshift 8 speed wide ratio x 1 - simple, great quality, cheap, robust, light weight, functions faultlessly. Love this kit. Less is more as far as I'm concerned.
I run a sram eagle 12 speed. For the riding I do I need a serious granny gear way more than a really high gear, and I’d gladly trade a gear or two for better chain line on my two lowest gears. Even properly adjusted the chain will drop when I backpedal too much on the lowest gear because of the harsh chain line
I hear dropping the chain doesn't happen with AXS, but it's super annoying on the mechanical Eagle systems for sure.
I really enjoyed your video. I’ve done several similar videos, I’m a big fan of nine speed for most situations on my downhill bike. I’m only using the first three gears and the last three gears in all reality. If you look at the cassettes, they’re really not a whole lot of difference if you’re talking 11-50 cassettes .The first three gears and the last three gears are almost always the same whether it’s nine speed, 10 speed, or 11 speed.
I love my single speed because it almost never goes wrong. I've been on group rides where people's drivetrain has gone haywire and we had to set them up as single speed for the rest of the ride.
I agree--and even more so for e-bikes. I had a stock 11-50 12 speed with 34 tooth ring up front on my e-bike and was only using the smallest 4-5 cogs. I initially replaced the front ring with a 36 and love it. So next step is replace the cassette with a 11-42 9 speed when I need to replace the chain. Everything gets so much cheaper at 9 speed or smaller. I find it odd that companies put such crazy large cassettes on e-bikes. I guess it is just easy for them to stay safe on the specs for shoppers.
1x9 with an 11-42 cassette is my current fave. But just today I put a 1x10 drivetrain with an 11-48 cassette on my MTB, so we’ll see if that becomes my new favorite.
how many teeth have your front chain ring ?
I usually run a 34T and 175mm cranks. But that all depends on the terrain you ride.
interesting... i use 2x9 (32/42 front) 11/42 on back =P ratio is also important but yeah depends on the terrain
I have microshift 9 speed 11-46 on my stooge mk5 and i think that's enough for me.
I appreciate that 1x8 and 1x9 single speeds are getting more popular. The Deore 1x11 is a pretty good value but having much cheaper 8 or 9 speed chain and cassette would be nice. If I could get an 8 speed with the same gear range as my 1x11, I'd probably prefer it because I tend to shift 2 gears at a time already.
I think 1x is the way forward for most bikes. Easier to maintain and fewer parts to replace.
You are in the Advent/Advent X demo
@@fatrobdouble That or the new Shimano Linkglide 9 speed.
@@artvandelay1720 ohhhh no, not linkglide.
@@artvandelay1720 i guess. Shimano seems to have gone that route primarily to compete with Advent, and to have something stronger for eBikes. I'm not a fan of a new spacing and pull ratio for old-timey stuff like 8/9/10, personally and obligatory 11speed chain? 🙄 But sure, it fills the same basic need as Advent.
I've been almost entirely boycotting Shimano for a few years (i do use older stuff i have on-hand and i do still buy their cassettes most of the time) so I'm probably biased. But we never needed new ratios, cassette spacing, and 11speed chain for Shimano 9speed, twenty+ years after its introduction.
@@fatrobdouble Is the 11 speed chain required for linkglide? I thought you could use any chain that fit the spacing. tbh it kinda defeats the point if you can't use a standard 9 speed chain.
I've been running the same Box Two Prime 9 on my main trail bike for the past year and love it. I have a hardtail with a SRAM 12 speed that's always been finicky - I dont miss the extra gears, and the 9 speed is friggin bomb proof, just set it and forget it. My main concern with it is that it wont be supported long term by Box (in fact, they seem to be clearing them all out from their website right now).
The new Shimano Cues is really interesting to me, as well as the Microshift Advent X - but those groupsets only have a 48t gear for climbing. I'd be really really happy if one of them would come out with an affordable 10 speed 11-50t - that'd be perfect for me. Edit: oh i guess theres a 11 speed cues that goes to 50t, interesting!
Love my Advent X with a 48 granny cog. Shifts like butter. I might even get the Ver 2 derailleur in future.
like Uncle Ron says, "8 is great. 9 is fine," but he's generally talking about doubles and triples in front. Most of my bikes are 9 and 10 speed, and I get by just fine. My only 1x setup is 12-speed, only because the Surly Wednesday came with a 1x12 Eagle drivetrain. Once that wears out, I'll probably change it up, just so I don't need to keep so many different width chains around.
Swapability and simplicity are one of the reasons I have almost exclusively 11 speed drivetrains and DT Swiss 350 hubs.
Ron is just using ⅔ of an old saying: 9 is fine, 8 is great, and 7 is heaven.
I think I'm 2024, 9 speed is the vest option bc there's still enough current and NOS 9speed stuff of decent quality around, but 8 offered a nice combination of range and durability. 8 didn't last too long on the timeline though, compared with 7 and 9
Just found your channel and this was a rather interesting video. My older mountain bike I use is a 3x8 and I think when I upgrade the drivetrain I will be going to a 1x10 mostly because the 10 speed cassette should fit fine on my existing wheel hub and I don't think I need more gearing than that.
A 1x10 drivetrain combined with a battery that gives you pedal assist if great for climbing up hills and it's all I need
I've been riding my 1x9 speed drivetrains for years. I've got a DiaCompe Ene friction shifter so I can use 1x8, 1x9, 1x10... a kind of technical freedom!
Also important to add - for anything off road (and sometimes even on road if your city doesnt take care of itself) then a clutch is KEY - shimano only brought clutches in on their 10sp systems and later. Thankfully sunrace make an 8/9sp compatible derailleur with a clutch, but it doesnt really like 3x, which puts 3x8 and 3x9 into the back seat for me, despite how capable and cheap those drivetrains are. 1x9 for casual use, 3x10 for racing
Oh yeah for mountain biking I pretty much rule out any derailleur without a clutch.
Up grading a 3 x 9 to a 3 x 12 (50 T) I prefer it for it's long range capabilities
I just snapped a 10 speed chain over the weekend. I stopped at 10 speed. A 46-48 tooth large cog is low enough and plenty of gear range. The added gears and cost just isn't worth it imo
Really good clip I totally agree too wide cassette long chain throw & dirt why don't ppl get out of saddle & stand nobody knows how to ride my first bike was fully rigid Apollo 6 speed I've had full suspension disc brakes 3 X 7 man now I ride 29 inch bmx all rigid single speed or 7 speed Schwinn Panther & I have a blast & no maintenance !👍🛠️🏁
Building my drivetrain now. Still riding the stock 2x7 14-28. Moving up to a 10 spd 11-28. Next I'll figure out what i want to go with up front but definitely going with 1 speed. Honestly I would be fine with an 8 speed for most of my riding
I don’t know, I love the Shimano Deore 12 spd set up, I like having a few gears in the middle closer together- but it’s all preference and what kind of riding you do…that aside, smaller cassettes will have better chain alignment
the deore is super reliable, but man its heavy
@@hammertime7740 So is my body😀, heavy!
Shifting is buttery smooth.... and never has it needed adjustment of any kind.
I’m on 10 speed 3:16 because a cassette and chain change is $50. AdventX gives me all I need, is cheap, and it works.
I've settled on either 1x10 or 2x10 for my goto bikes. My only exception is my Single Speed.
Ive been using micrshift advent x for the past few years and it’s been awesome. No issues at all. I don’t think we need 12 speed unless your cross country racer that needs that gear ratio
1 x 9 advent on my commuter/tourer, 12s deore on my hardtail. I like them both.
Recently bought my first 12 spd bike (Deore). Bike is second hand. Indexing has certainly been trickier than my previous bike (Deore 11 spd). Will probably order a new hanger and see if that helps.
I run the box one prime 9 on my hardtail. Super easy to work with and very durable, I landed right on the derailleur slipping off a skinny and it's totally fine
I've got around 500 miles in on mine and have been super impressed with the durability and reliability.
I recently returned back to SS from 12 on the hardtail. So fun. I found shimano much better than sram between modern 12 speed. Works well on my rigid bikepacker
No issues with my Otso Fenrir Shimano SLX 12 speed. Same with my wive's Salsa Timberjack Shimano XT 12 speed. Our gravel bikes all are Shimano 11 speed GRX. No issues. Keep them clean and lubed. We have old Gary Fisher and Trek bikes with 3x8, 3x9 that are reliable.
My bikepacking rig is 11 speed, gravel top GRX mechanical but also 11 speed and I was afraid 12 speed will be worse… But my 12 speed SLX on a fullsusser works perfect, chain and casette wear are far too much greater tbh… ❤
I tend to agree that 10-11 gears is enough for most applications. I think part of the expansion in gears is also driven by the constant need to sell new stuff, new technology.
I put the Box 2 e-bike (single shift) 9 speed setup on my Niner RIP e9 eMTB bike. 12 speeds is really overkill on an e-bike when you have the added power.
I upgraded my old 26" Giant bike recently, and the best balance I could get between low cost and having a good range of gears, was to run a 3x8 Altus/Acera drivetrain. 22-42 on the front and 11-32 on the rear, and I couldn't be happier. Sure my bike is heavy compared to the 1x12 29ers, won't roll that fast on trail, but reliability is king for me.
3x8 22-32-42 chainrings 11-34 cassette got me from Singapore to the UK, easy to get parts anywhere and most of the world still rides round on bikes like that
By my calculations 99 to 17.8 gear inches, a massive range which I don’t think you could possibly get with a single rear cog, the number of gears is irrelevant, it’s the range that matters.
3 by 8 on my best mtn bike, singlespeed as my favorite, and a host of 1 bys. I can see the argument for all of them
All depends on the amount of climbing that you do.
I get that in respect to the gear range (i.e. 10-51t), but not so much on the number of gears themselves.
@@RideYearRound if you want small jumps when you climb and small jumps when you cruise-number of gears matters for many cyclists.
48 works great! I hardly use it but it's there if needed.
I like your thinking… and my experience mirrors yours. I like the range of gears with 12 speed, but it’s definitely noticeably more finicky in terms of setup than 11-speed. I have a fair number of both 11- and 12-speed bikes in spread across the range from gravel to fatbike, and while I love them all, overall the 11-speed drivetrains are more stable across the variety of conditions I ride. At this point I’m not interested in anything with more than 12 gears, as chain durability seems to be dropping on the recent new SRAM groups (as reported in the media).
I really do think 11 speed is the sweet spot, at least for mountain bikes. I totally get the argument for tighter spacing for cadence and power purposes on road and gravel though.
Looks comfortable but then handlebars also look kind of weird I do a lot of riding wheelies and jumping but when and if I do build just a cruiser type bike I'll use these handlebars they're pretty cool looking❤
Advent x is the best all around compromise. I love my 12 speed sram, cable and axs, but advent x 11-48 was quite close.
1x9 Microshift Advent is what works for me
Agreed… dumped my 9-speed bike last year, and even after 25 years of riding it with way too little maintenance😊, gear changes were still smoother than on my new 13-speed bike😮. You *really* have to keep it clinically clean and decently lubed in order to get some halfway acceptable shifting out of it. Got a lot better after changing to a waxed chain but still cannot compete with good old 90s shifting feel😢😊😅
I've been road and mtb riding for 40 years and the only chains I've broken were while riding 3 X gearing, and probably because I was much younger and stood on almost all climbs. Presently I have 2X10 XT, 1X11 XT, and 1X12 XTR bikes. The 1X12 is Shimano 2022 XTR and has given me the most trouble. If I'm leaning while going slow, it will frequently shift on its own, which I attribute to the narrow chain and cassette cogs. And as a mtber and roadie for over 40 years, what's the deal with the HUGE visor? The only time I use a visor is on early morning or late afternoon road rides.
1x8 has done me well, though I don’t change gears too much
I'm on a 50-34 and 11-28 9 speed, and as I get stronger (for the routes I have) the gears are getting easier eventually. It's Not The Gears it's the Engine.
I have the new T-Type drive train. While I do like the way the shifting works, I very often skip a cog or 2.
If you ride 2x or 3x, 8 or 9 speed is fine. On MTB I prefer 1x and generally don't care about jumps, as long as the range is fine. More often than not I need to quickly jump into lower gears and I actually appreciate the big jumps because of that; very rarely am I hunting betwixt gears whilst riding flat trails. Different case on the road or gravel where a wide range 8 or 9 speed cassette can be a bit annoying, so in those cases I prefer wide range double or triple up front with an 11-34 max in the rear.
You want the fine gear steps to get your preferred cadence while having to stick to the speed of the group. Thats of course only relevant if you ride like that. But I wanted finer gears and that's why I got myself a 2x12 electronic groupset for the gravel bike. You don't need that, but it is nice.
I've never had a problem keeping a consistent cadence on 11 speed, but notice it on some rides on the 9 speed. 2x12 would give you so many options!
we can live with 5 gears.
7 is versatile.
9 is so complete that may won't use all unless lots of ups and downs.
Going from a old school 3x8 to a 1x12. Then built a 1x10 gravel/road bike. I'll chose a 10 speed for all my furture builds. When the sram 1x12 works and is fine tuned it's great. When it doesn't work it's pain to work on. I live in rural USA and have to work on my own bikes. The microshift 1x10 just works.
I also live in a rural area and work on my own bikes. It can be a pain to get parts and consumables (i.e. sealant, chain lube) so I appreciate things that consistently and reliably work.
This has helped "ME solidify how many gears YOU really need"?? (perhaps just careless speech-I am very pedantic)
This has helped YOU solidify how many gears YOU need. (congrats on that).
I like smaller jumps of max 3-4 when I climb. Some 52s have jumps of 6, 6, & 8 on the biggest rings. I want to be seated with an easy/comfy cadence when I climb.
A 25/38 front and 11-36 11 speed gives me small jumps in when climbing in the small ring and small jumps when cruising on flat in the bigger ring.
...and I always glide down hill ;) JFF cycling :)
I don’t like too many gears but anything that supports XD driver has to be at least 11 speed. I have need for speed so if I’m running 11t tall gear on my cassette I need 40t chainring. With 9t tall gear you can maintain same top speed (30mph+) with just 32t chainring.
Box is fantastic. I’m running a Box 1 with a Box 2 cassette. It’s been ridiculously durable. I haven’t adjusted it in two years. Shimano Linkglide is also awesome. I’ve only had one 12 speed and it was fiddly. Never again.
I ride road bikes, because I'm too old for the ruff mountain terrain now, but I have Dura-Ace Di2 11 speed right now and it's fine, I'm used to it. But I'm constantly shifting a lot. If and when my group dies completely I won't be able to get 11 speed Di2 stuff because now the 12 speed stuff has been out for a couple of years. I'm not going 12 speed. I'm going to call it quits.
I hVe 14 actual gears. And I use them all. It's a Rohloff mated to 22t on thre back, and 46 at the fromt. It is belt driven.
Interesting video! I’ve never met anyone who said ‘I sure wish I had fewer gears.’ But maybe that’s what’s so cool about biking these days! You can optimize cadence with 12sp or keep things simple with 9sp or pick something in between. I like my LWB with 12sp but agree that chainline with plus tires is a pain to get sorted! Thanks for the unconventional content!
I've heard many people say 12 sp shifting and longevity is poor and choose to reduce to previous standards
@@michaelviglianco6121 This is simply not true in my experience. People around me are getting insane lifespans out of their 12speed drivetrains. Thinking back 20 years to when I first started mountain biking, I spend FAR less time fixing trailside mechanicals and adjusting my drivetrains. Perhaps I have to tighten the cable tension by 1/4 turn once every ~6 months now on my 12sp bikes (Shimano Deore, XT and SRAM XX1). The only people switching back to old standards seem to be retro-grouches and youtubers who need content...
@spencergiles72 and people being honest with themselves. I haven't realized a single benefit of 12 speed over 11 much less 10.
10 and 11 isn't retro....it's like 5-10 years ago. People can like what they like. I'm not judging people I'm judging the drivetrain.
@@michaelviglianco6121 I'm not judging people either on their drivetrain. I just have an issue with a youtuber trying to claim 9 speed is better when it absolutely is not "better". "good enough depending on what you are riding", fine. But better it is not.
@spencergiles72 Based on this comment I’m confident you only watched a few minutes of the video and/or didn’t really listen to what I was saying, but thanks for watching some of it and I’m glad you enjoy 12 speed.
on my 3X8 i just stay on my 48t and use that for the entirety of my ride until i need to climb out of my trail network to get back home.
I hate all of my 12 speed drivetrains. Finicky as hell. Not durable enough for mt biking. One small tap/hit and shifting goes to hell. Too much grit and it's a mess. I miss 9 speed cassettes. Crispy shifting, durable, light and cheap.
Don't find those problems with my 12 speed but, yes you can have those problems finding the right setup and maintaining it correctly can make all the difference in the world. If running less gears works good for you and don't miss anything about 12 speeds than great! As for me I ride in the mountains and my 12 speed out preforms my past setups.
I always laugh when someone takes the time to post a comment about an issue they have then someone will post a comment telling you they don't ever have that issue and you must be setting it up wrong. That guy probably doesn't even have a 12 speed bike. I can see 12 and 13 speed drivetrains having loads of issues mostly from trail debris, I know I had tons of issues when I had 10 speed. I'm glad I gave up offroad riding and don't have to deal with what's being produced today.
@@Raymond-Farts
I currently run a 2022 Reign E2 with a Sram XX AXS transmission works great for me not everybody likes 12 speeds and not everybody has good experiences with them. I dare to say the riding the some of these bikes are put through today is pretty hardcore and many of them are 12 speeds and hold up very well.
3x8 for life
new CUES with 9 speeds is the new goat, can't wait to try it. I have Deore 12 sp and Advent X 10 speed on my bikes. I wouldn't mind trying the Acolyte 8 speed on my hardtail as well. i'm kinda iffy on Box being a brand that has been permanently on sale with the same products for... years. and seemingly no new innovation or whatever. Seems like a good value now, but I'd almost certainly go with CUES or Microshift instead.
I'm not dedicated to any one brand, but I have been impressed with the reliability on this drivetrain. I'd love to try a CUES drivetrain out though.
@@RideYearRound ya MicroShift definitely surprised me and I'm quite open minded towards their business, but as a choice I'd really want CUES for the shifter. Even low end Shimano shifters are great
CUES will reintroduce 9 speed to the masses, 2 x 9 will become more popular. Somebody needs to bring out an adapter to run non CUES shifters on CUES derailleur
I'm just hoping someone creates a magic shifter with an adjustable/selectable pull ratio so you can match it to whatever derailleur you want.
@@RideYearRound That is in the works, Path Less Pedalled did a podcast with a chap that's making one from Madrone Cycling Components. Or use a friction shifter like the old Deore LX or XT thumbies, or newer Microshift levers.
It doesn't surprise me that Russ of all people would be the one in the know on that one haha.
I don't have enough. Tandem full-suspension 29" MTB in the hills, I have it set up 3x, 24/36/48 in front, 11-42 in back. We have an easy-enough gear, but we spin out up top in a couple spots on rides. I feel sorry for all the 1x people in our area. 1x across industry is madness, not everyone rides where that really works.
You've gotta be going like 40+ to spin out on that setup. Which when mountain biking you wouldn't be pedaling because you're descending.
So unless you're riding down like, a paved mountain, that doesn't make sense.
I've got deore XT on a 29er and spinning out won't happen on flat ground unless I'm sprinting.
@@fataxe1 We often ride to the trailheads, so on asphalt. Also fireroads on a slight downhill slope, a tandem with two people will get up to speed. Definitely an edge case, no disagreement, but SoCal, you're going up or you're going down. We could use a 10 out back.
@SR20DEWhitebird as a heavier rider I end up passing lighter riders pretty easily on fast road/gravel descents so I can only imagine what it’d be like with two of me on a tandem hahaha.
Your low gear is seriously low , I was surprised you spin out as your top gear is over a 4 ratio but I suppose it’s down to the double power unit
IMO if you are riding on your own/ solo then 1x 9 or 10 speed is fine since slowing down or not havening the best gear for cadence is not as important. If you are riding with others then having more gears is more important as cadence and power out is more important to keep up with the group. IMO 1x11 is about the sweet spot for weight vs range vs # of cogs, that said I am a 2x believer, I typically set my bikes up as 1x+ /11 that means that I ride as a 1x but have a small granny up front as a bail out. I do think 12 speed is more temperamental.
It's nice to see someone else thinking this way. I'm running SS on my rigid Stooge and 12sp Deore on my Banshee at the moment but I'd like to drop to 10-11sp on the Banshee and have a basic mech and shifter I can put on and off the Stooge for longer rides - I doubt the switch with cassette and chain would take more than 10-15 mins. 12sp is just too fiddly and unforgiving to knocks, and I don't think that Deore setup has ever been quiet for me. Andrew over at Meat Engines (formerly of NSMB) has similar thoughts, taken to the extreme of cobbling together friction shifters with various speed mechs on various speed cassettes to sort of give the best of all worlds.
It's interesting, actually - I've worked in the industry for about a decade now, mostly as a wrench but with some sales work too, and the more I've been exposed to the latest and greatest, the more jaded I've become with it. Nothing new seems to impress me any more, least of all the drivetrain arms race. I think Linkglide, and to an extent CUES, were the only things that really excited me in recently years - simple, reliable, robust and (some) cross-compatibility. Drivetrains for the masses. SX-level Transmission is *not* a drivetrain for the masses, even in mechanical form...
I haven't gone to the other extreme with friction shifters, but I totally see how they're the ultimate in reliability and adjustability since they're so simple and you can make miniscule adjustments.
i have a 1x12 i do use the 1st on steeper long climbs , but on the really steep short but tech climbs i use the 2nd
@6:40…I don’t think the plates are any thicker on a wider (lower speed) chain-the pins are longer and the plates just spaced farther apart. If anything, the longer pins might make the chain weaker!
It may depend on the brand, but when I used some calipers to measure a few different chains the 7 and 9 speed chains measured 1.0mm while both 11 speeds measured .8ish. Obviously that’s a pretty small difference but as a percentage it’s significant. I agree that tighter spacing could negate that though.
I have 12 speed on everything so I don’t have to buy separate things but the 11 speed 10-51 is real nice
Compatibility across my bikes is definitely something I consider. It's annoying to have to buy different brake fluid, chain sizes, etc.
Good stuff. I've got Box 9 on all three of my fats, although I wish the rear mech was easier to pull! I had a bizarre set up with a Microshift friction shifter, Box cassette, and a Deore mech and it was just about perfect, but then I buggered up the mech and went back to Box and it was unusable without the Box index shifter. They're so close to being 10 out of 10, but just a needs a few tweaks...
By pull do you mean move when removing the rear wheel? Because now that you bring it up that's probably my biggest complaint...I can never get the rear wheel out without a fight haha
@@RideYearRound Yeah, the spring's an absolute bastard, they could fix this by adding a clutch? I must admit I don't really know much about this sort of thing other than it makes my thumb hurt on long rides and it's a proper twat to get the wheel out of the frame..
I think I’m good with just 1X10 for all my bikes. My MTB, Fat Bike and Adventure Monster gravel bike. My CX is 2X but I never use the small front chain. I use it as a 1X. One day I will switch it to a proper 1X. If something goes wrong I can always borrow from one of the others just in case of a emergency.
when i built my LWB i went with deore 1x10 with the 11-42 cassette and a 30t chainring. my new (to me) jones 29 i've built up as a singlespeed. 11 and 12 speed drivetrains are ok but as you said adjustment is more finnicky and doesn't take much to knock them out of adjustment!
Ah man that 42t with 29+ would be super steep for where I live, but good on you for pushing those gears haha
@@RideYearRound where i am in the uk, it's flat af and most climbs are short, steep and easily sprinted.
The bike I have now is a 2024 specialized rack hopper sport It has the Shimano cues 1x9 drivetrain which I like it a lot but I'm looking at a full suspension bike that has Shimano Deore 1x10 I believe how do you like the Deore??
1x10 11-50t is the sweet spot
I found wider steps is better for dynamically changing terrain. Closer steps is better for smoother terrain where maintaining cadence is more practical.
My next bike (road/gravel) focused touring will likely be 2x 9 or 10 speed with closer steps.
Gonna keep 12 on my lwb now (if it ain’t broke), but I do often find myself skipping 2-3 gears at a time when things get dynamic.
Yeah I've liked the 9 speed when the terrain changes very quickly, but if it's more gently rolling I've found I can end up "between gears" more often.
@@RideYearRound - PS my comment was agreeing with your findings, not criticizing. Just want you to make sure you did not feel criticized. Love your content and support your message!
Oh no worries at all. I didn't see it that way, but I'm also open to discussion and different opinions. Everyone rides with a different style in different places and has different needs and I love to hear what everyone thinks.
I have apinon 12 for chain gears with a 9 speed freewhele😊
I am right now struggling with this on my broped. It's a great bike, but it's too powerful (and I'm too fat), so the drivetrain is just constantly breaking. I'm going to be sticking with 12 speed though, even though 1x9 or 1x8 would be better. Partly this is because I invested in a bunch of SRAM GX cassettes when they were on sale, but mainly it's because all three of my mountain bikes (the other two are Amish) use SRAM GX or X01, and I want to be able to swap wheels freely across them for wacky mullet and full 27.5 fun. I really don't want to switch even to SRAM transmission or Shimano mechanical due to the loss of compatibility, and expense. SRAM wireless drivetrain, maybe, but I know I'm going to forget to charge it and get screwed on the trail.
My current plan is to run a hybrid on the bike, with a Shimano HG chainring and XTR chain, with a SRAM derailleur and cassette in the rear.
Microshift advent X clears everything out there except axs and Xt/xtr
Eleven is as many gears as I'm willing to install on any of my bikes. I have a seven-speed vintage road bike, an eight-speed folding bike, a nine-speed folding bike, and two 10-speed hybrid bikes. The actual number of speeds is never something I find myself thinking about when I'm out riding because it doesn't matter out in the real world. I can ride just as far, and go up and come down the same hills, on any of those bikes. The two things that matter more than the gear count are range and shift quality.
I don't think that much about the exact number of gears, but have just found the most popular number seems to be the most finicky and prone to poor shifting when things get dirty (and it turns out there's always dirt when you're mountain biking).
Advent x is honeslty perfect for everything but a 29er xc bike. Thats the only time when a wider range is preferred.
I am okay with what I have; Gravel bike 1x12 speed, old commuter/hybrid 2x10, trail bike 1x11
I would happily buy a new bike with wide ratio 1x10 if it was possible. I don't need more gears and i ride anything from slow forest xc to downhill bikepark. Lighter, cheaper, easier to keep adjusted properly.
Need to make crank arms that change ratios (make your 30T change to a 40T
There was one in Kickstarter a year or two ago, but sadly failed to get funded
There may still be one brand on the market that starts with an SCH? Or something
I had 1×12 , i was forever click clicking gears , with 2× you're not clickety clicking so often.
Great video. I’m really curious as to how you are getting such a clean spoken audio while riding? Are you running a lav mic into a go pro or maybe using another mic and recording and syncing it up later in editing?
Thanks! I'm just using the DJI Action 4, no mics or anything. I do a tiny bit of post-processing, but very little.
@@RideYearRound wow great sound!
3 months ago I bought a brand new 2024 specialized rockhopper sport It has Shimano cues 1x9 drivetrain and I absolutely love it however I'm looking at getting a full suspension bike and it has Shimano Deore which I've heard is a lot better than the cues aystem?? 🤷🏻🤷🏻
There more I ride there more i think that nexus 8 + belt drive is a great option.
Shimano Essa for the win
i really like the feel of sram-shifters but pretty much the rest of the brand is crap imho. For that reason i feel stuck with 1x12 on my Enduro (shimano 12s derailleur is compatible).
11 speed enjoyer here
1X10 Zee RDR close ratio cassette and Saint shifter.