Coffee Aging, Degassing, &Fresnhess | Is Fresher Coffee Always Better | Real Chris Baca
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- A lot of people want to drink coffee right out of the roaster but is fresher coffee always better?
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This Week: Coffee Aging, Degassing, &Fresnhess | Is Fresher Coffee Always Better | Real Chris Baca
I think the main issue is grinder. What I have been doing is buying fresh coffee from my local shop and ask them to grind using their EK43. As soon as I go home I dose 30grams in small airtight containers and freeze. Then take out as needed. The coffee tastes as fresh as having it at the coffee shop. And lasts about 6 months. The baristas in the coffee shop tried it as well, and now do the same for their home use (as I assume none has an EK43 at their house). I get a free coffee now and then for my tip :)
Chris, A curiosity question: When cupping does one wait the 6 days from roasting to ensure the optimum presentation of the roast? I would assume that it would be the same when developing a roasting profile. When you think about all the variables that go into roasting and brewing coffee you, it seems like magic when you get that espresso shot that makes you smile. Thank you
I think his observation on number of days after which coffee tastes best is for espresso and does not apply to pour over or immersion methods.
Travis Pastrana of coffee
exactly my thought :-)
😂😂😂
Dude, Your eye contact is exceptional as well as your coffee knowledge!
Hi I always bloom coffees with more water for longer time as they start to fade out but what is you preferred way to deal with light to medium roasted coffee that is starting to fade out ? I'm only talking about brewed coffee,espresso is another animal.
1. Grind finer and use the same water temp.
2. Grind coarser,increase the dose and lower the temperature.
I'm stuck between these 2 methods and maybe it all comes down to the coffee you are brewing.
I had an interesting result today
I brewed a medium roasted Kenyan coffee via Hario V60. It's 23 days from roast and starting to fade out a little. My recipe is 22g coffee to 350g of 90°C water and brew time is 2:45 min.
I tried one click finer on my Comandante,bloomed with 70g of water for 50 sec and got a 3:30 min brew.
Delicious but hot to medium temp cup had a slightly dry aftertaste,medium to room temp cup was good.
Finally! Just the information I was looking for. Thanks Chris for simplifying this subject..
Revisiting this gold content. Thanks Chris 🤙🏼🤙🏼🤙🏼
Never thought this could help develop the flavor. Will try this after Japanese flash brewing.
Keeping it in a valved, resealable bag and only taking out enough for a shot each time so that it goes on bathing in its own CO2 should stretch the sweet spot quite a bit. OTOH dumping a full bag into the grinder hopper means that the CO2 flows out between the burrs & will accelerate oxidation.
Informative, as always. Love your videos, as always.
So much fun watching these videos! I´d watch even if I didn´t need it (and I do, I'm lost with my new espresso machine)
"in which case you you need to drink more coffee, what are you doing!?"
I lmfao!!!!!!!!!
Chris youre awesome
^__^
The most expensive coffee in the world is aged for 20 years and people say it taste like fruits chocolate and wine. What would explain this?
Oh, dear. The best coffee I could find was already very deep in the no-no-territory. The first bag was ok, but I didn't notice any interesting flavours. The second bag was even older and the taste reminded me of a variety negative inedible things. It was pretty brutal.
Good explanation, but you might wanna look up what chasing the dragon is. . . unless you are freebasing your extractions. . .
Lol. Was just gonna say the same thing. I’ve never heard this term be used for anything BUT heroin.
Hey Baca, you should do a new batch of the Extract Everything, Fundamentals pin!
Keep up the great videos. Peace!
I have coffee that i need to donate to someone who is a vile and terrible person cuz this stuff is bleh.But really - this was extra helpful. Thanks for putting this up.
One way to tell if someone will sounds like a coffee expect (similar to wine expert): Sharp, clarity, sweetness, edge... smooth, bitterness, sourness... MORE NESS>.
Stale, super dark roast, carbonized. Sadly, that's pretty much America's favorite $4.50 latte.
What a legend! Great video, thanks man
Peace! Thanks Chris
HI Chris.... I watched and really liked your video.... I just wanted to know if we follow the same process for coffee capsules manufacturing?
Ask some coffee Nazis and they will tell you it needs to be consumed within a day after roasting. I’ve tried this approach and for my taste buds it wasn’t close to being ready. It ended up tasting very flat. I’m shooting for almost a week after roasting to get the right flavor. As I am going through that match I’ll be roasting up for the next week. I’m sure there are different factors that determine when a particular bean is ready but from what my experience too soon didn’t sit well with my taste.
You mentioned that your estimation chart is based on the coffee you roast. Do you roast medium? A bit darker than that maybe?
Hey guys Im new into Roasting world. I want to ask a question, for the 0-5 days time frame do I keep the coffee inside a sealed container or leave it out in the open? Thx in advance
Thanks for the illustration Chris. The sad thing is that probably 99% of coffee consumed on the planet is way past the 30 day period. Most folks never get to enjoy good coffee.
I love this information. Will it be the same for store bought coffee grounds? When do i start counting?
With ground coffee it's more tricky. If the bag is nitrogen flushed you can have a long shelf life as long as the bag remains unopened, but once it gets opened it goes downhill real quick!
RealChrisBaca thanks man. I will keep that in mind. Will start to locate any local roasters as well.
Wow! No Thumbs Down!!! Nice.
Not yet anyway ^__^
Thanks for this. Do you wait the same amount of time when cupping sample batches?
Hey Chris. Is your bell curve the same for espresso and filter? Curious what your opinion and yalls practice is there..
You should drink more coffee....wise words
Where/how do you guys store your coffee for the first five days?
The bulk for cafe use goes on these shelves that live up on the wall around the bar. It's out of any direct sunlight and our temperature is super moderate as we're right by the ocean so that works out pretty well for us.
RealChrisBaca Thanks, Chris!
In bags on the shelves or open to air?
So does it only affect taste or caffeine potency as well?
5:45 welcome to the 90's
Awesome!!
Spot on - matches what I experience to the day.
Lately I have a big problem during espresso extraction: If I want a 25 sec extraction from 18 grams of coffee to around 30 ml of coffee (standard shot) the flow starts at around 10-15 seconds. Then really fast it starts to flow/gush really fast. I have tried grinding finer but then I totally choke the machine. If I grind coarser it flows way to fast and the shot is over in 10 seconds.
I have used my Izzo Alex Duetto mk2 machine and Compak K3 Touch for years without problems.
Could it be an issue with grind quality? I took the grinder apart for cleaning. I can’t visually see any problem with the grind.
Or could it be something with the gasket in the brew group? It has never been changed but there is no leak around the portafilter.
I have tried 2 different fresh coffees.
Why does a shot need to be 25 seconds . I suspect you are experiencing some kind of channeling , shots speeding up as they progress isnt a problem in itself , only if they taste bad. Dont let a shot be dictated by a specific time.
mpj1969 I just wanted to be specific using an example of 25 seconds as the “standard”. The coffee does not taste as good as it used to. I have not had this problem before and the issue is: Beginning of shot is choke and then the extraction gets very fast. I have ordered a new shower screen and gasket. I hope it helps. Next step is a new grinder I guess. (I’ll get a new grinder sooner or later anyway)
ok , there is no standard time, shots can be tasty 20-50 seconds long. If you done have a naked portafilter get one , this all show you what is going on in there.
mpj1969 I do have a naked portafilter. I haven’t used it that much lately. Good tip, thanks!
and you are dosing to 0.1g variance ?
Why are there so many videos saying the opposite?
Aging Coffee is the future ... Think of wine. 🤔 teach more
theres a japanese coffee maker, he prepares coffee from 22 year old beans and charge 900 dollars for it.
Aging green coffee, maybe. Aging roasted coffee , nah!
Same for espresso and filter coffees?
🤟🏼🤟🏼🤟🏼
Solution: let the CO2 out for a week then freeze the beans.
You totalllllllly missed the discussion of using a VACMASTER with ground or whole beans within 1 hour after roasting. Most coffee roasters dont want to spend the extra cash on aluminum bags that hold about 50 - 100 grams. Also Roasters dont want to spend the entire 1+ min it takes to weigh only 50 grams + grind + pack + the 40 seconds it takes to vacuum seal 50-100 grams at a time. Also packing 4 x 50gram vacuum bags into a larger bag cost about $1 or slightly less (vac bags + larger bag + labels + ink for the labels + labor = $1). Im talking about a WHOLE DIFFERENT AWESOME LEVEL. Like a much bigger YUM factor.
@Baca how do you guys store coffee at your shop.
steve schisler in a container: 1NPdxvZcgSq6gqi5QNUpmNja6DnTxXWbSk
+rxallan20 Ok I hope some sort of container but was looking for something more specific like some sort of one way valve Rubbermaid something. Just curious.
Roasted coffee lives in a Brute tub for a bout 12hrs, then goes straight into retail and / or bulk bags for storage. Nothing special. Out of direct sunlight, moderate temperature.
Oh OK. Guess I was thinking way too complicated thanks for the simple breakdown. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Best way is to leave the coffee in the kitchen drawer for 2-5 days and then move it to the fridge. this will slow its aging drastically (up to even 1 month after roasting)
Refrigerators have all sorts of wacky things going on with moisture and odors... not sure about this. If you really wanted to keep it long term, freezer should work better, but it's better just to buy smaller quantities of coffee more often than it is to try to hoard it.
Yeah I wouldn’t use your normal kitchen fridge as moisture will be a major issue. A small wine fridge is better, but not really necessary unless you live in a very warm climate and don’t have air conditioning.
You are funny 😅
Oh dear. I've been wasting my time/money by drinking my home roasts WAY too soon. No wonder they tasted a bit too sharp.
Your hat is on crooked.
Would you be able to make a video on how to get into coffee roasting as a job? I’ve been trying to get into roasting for awhile now but it seems like most places want someone with 2-5 years experience.
did you ever figure something out?
Roast at home get experience that way unless they need professional experience.
"Donate it to someone you don't like that much"
*Chaotic virtuous*
Coffee density and processing matters too baca!! #notallcoffees
High altitude coffees are often denser and have a tighter cellular structure - it holds the go juice flavours for longer!
Love you videos man your the OG
Pareto principle ^__^
RealChrisBaca aiming for the largest group, fair point! I would ask what you think about feeezing and extra low temp storage for the purpose of storage and longevity - I think that’s really important!
You should make a tee shirt with your time from roast bell curve
I'd buy it!
Make the shirt, I will buy!
That's a pretty sweet idea! If I end up doing it I'll send you one!
RealChrisBaca if you make one I will buy it but thanks for the thought
Ryan Edwards agree
I am with you on the not before 5 days for espresso, but it depends on which process the beans have gone through that also decides the peak window. Most washed coffees start loosing flavour at that 16 -21 day mark but Naturals come alive then. Ona Coffee did a talk on this last year (with data to back it up) and that changed my thoughts on the matter. i then aged my house blend coffee which contains naturals and found the fruit notes pop at 20-25 days. So it also depends on the process..Washed Honey, Natural and all the new ones in between that also effect the age and when it best drunk.
TiJoMo I agree, where can I find that ona talk tho?
Your metrics here are truer for espresso than filter brewing. You may want to address that.
Great video! Liked and subscribed :-)
Is your bell curve different for home roasted coffee using hot air roasters? I'd love to have my Gene Cafe curve be 0-5, 6-14, 15-30, 30+ ...instead I get something like 0-3, 4-9, 10-14, 15+ (for No, Yes!, Sure, No)
Great video. I also roll the top my bag after opening it to squeeze excess air out through the one way valve, can't hurt right? On an unrelated note can you make a video about water quality? It's nothing like bad water to kill the neuonces of great coffee. I've experienced this with Third Wave. So would love to hear more on what kind of water you guys brew with at your shop and general tips/filtration for home users.
the graph basicly holds true, though some coffees definitely age more quickly than your kind estimate. usually, darker or smokier roasts tend to taste ashy, kind of like wet chimney ember or even like skunk......if they pass the 2 month period......
Chris, how are you guys degassing your large roast batches for the shop? Or are you roasting and then putting in 5-10lb bags with valves and degassing in those bags?
Hi! Thanks for the video. I have a question about those continuous vacuum sealer canisters. I have one that automatically vacuums out the air from inside it while filled with fresh roasted beans. It does it several times throughout the day. Is it good or bad for my beans? Luckily I finish the 12 oz bag in two weeks but it really bugs me to know that it’s degassing my beans which might explain why I don’t have as much crema as I wanted
Hey Chris, I know this video is almost 2 years old, I just watched it really liked!
If you feel like going back to this subject, maybe you could talk about freezing the beans to preserve them at peak freshness. I've been doing it for quite some time and love the results, cause I'm the only one drinking coffee at home and the bags last longer than they should. I prefer defreezing them overnight in the fridge rather then grinding them frozen. What do you think?
Thanks for all the knowledge! Peace!
I'm not Chris, but I've heard many coffee professionals recommend against that, saying the cold can rob the beans of freshness and flavor. However, I have seen some neat containers that let air out (degassing), but not in (oxidizing). I think that might be the best solution!
I'm also freezing my beans, usually in sealed glass containers, it seems to preserve freshness a lot better.
I can keep going with the same Espresso grind setting for at least three weeks.
Which is certainly not the case if I would keep them in the bag.
Usually I let the 16-18g beans warm up on top of my Espresso machine before grinding.
For pour over I generally grind frozen beans, the air humidity condensation on the beans actually helps to prevent static problems.
First like and first comment.. must be my luck day.
Keep dropping some coffee wisdom on us Baca ✊🏽
Boooyah! Thanks Khaled!
How long should you let it sit roasted in a bucket with a gama lid, before roasting? Can it degas in the bucket, are should you go ahead and put it in the bag so it can degas, instead of storing it in the bucket. Thanks!
When you feel the vibes on such a deep level you're in the notification squad ;)
The deepest of vibes! ^__^
MAN. You made the difficult and hard stuff easy to understand
Hearing Chris say "What's crackin' everybody" is an instant mood booster.
I thought coffee came from the supermarket? :-D
There was a really smart dude at last year's Expo that talked about freezing coffee. I've tried it on a small scale with great success (not commercially viable though). Have you ever let coffee off-gas in open air for any period of time? Thanks Chris!
Was it George Howell? He's all about it!
I degas every morning after reading the newspaper
Put your hat on straight...you're not T.I.
Buy an Airscape container for those expensive whole beams and extend that 6-14 day window out as far as 21-28'ish days. I just finished a bag of Tim Wendelboe very lightly roasted Ethiopian that was roasted on 1/2/18! It didn't pop like it did a couple of weeks ago, but still produced a very pleasant, mellow cup with flavor notes still intact. Airscape is your friend. :)
p.s. also keep your beans stored at room temp. For me that's around 68-70 degrees.
Yup yup. I wanna get one of those to try even though I have practically no need for one!
Question, since the air tight canister or container doesn’t have a one way degas valve. Does the whole bean get affected since the gas(carbon dioxide) isn’t able to escape? Also, after how many days of roasting is it correct to store the whole beans in a air tightcanister?
Jay, good question, but I can only guess. Personally, I prefer to open a bag of coffee and move them to the Airscape 1-2 weeks off roast, then start consuming. That said, I have never experienced any sort of pressure feedback when opening the Airscape. It just might be that due to my timing a significant amount off degas has already occurred. Again, just guessing here. Also, keep in mind that there still spaces between the beans in the Airscape. Possible places for C02 to find its way to? The key feature of the container is to remove that column of air that sits on top of the beans.
what if my bag dont have valve?
wow boils down to coffee farts.
Have you thought about doing a video on the various types of coffee processing?
For sure. Going to Costa Rica next week and hope to get a bit of good origin footage down there!
Great video. I store my beans in a fellow Atmos canister which sucks out all the air. Does that mean I am also not allowing the co2 to escape and degassing is not happening?
Love the map hehe
Thanks
I've seen some people claim their coffee improved to it's best point around 30 days which I didn't think would be the case. I did have one coffee that was weird because it was kinda meh and lacking flavor up until the very end of the bag maybe 3 weeks later then it started getting better but unfortunately I already went through it all! But that was an unusual case.
Doesn’t the way in which the coffee is processed play a part in this too? My local roaster suggested leaving a natural processed blend/roast sit for 14 days prior to using. I tried it prior to the 14 days and it was harsh tasting. It settled down after 14-16 days.
Hi thanks for this informative video. Really learned alot. What is the best way to store coffee beans? Im using a plastic container and a plastic bag in it. Thanks
Is the window for the best result not unachievable for most users at home? I get my coffee from Rome and I buy 3-4 kilo’s at the time and those last me at least a month.
And then I have to hope that I get the latest batch fresh from the roaster.
Dude love your channel. Quick question here: what's the coffee scene discussion about the stupid court ruling about cancer warning label?
Sometimes like during competitions (like Aeropress competitions), the coffee provided will be quite fresh (2-3 days off roast; no time to degas) then increasing "oxidation" by grinding really fine maybe the only way to really brew good coffee. Correct this if I'm wrong.
Does the proper time for using the beans (let’s say, that 6-14 days frame) also depends on your brewing method? (Eg: espresso vs. Pour over) the
I always thought instant roasted coffee was best. I just spoke with a person at coffemachinedepotusa.com and he (Aaron) told me exactly what you were saying. Right on, your videos are very informative and honest. Thanks, keep them coming.
Thanks for this. Exactly what I was looking for, informative and to the point.
If I leave the coffee in the bag still have month, is it bad?
Helpful info. I roast my own and usually drink on day 2. Beans are gone by day 5 and I repeat.
This looks not to be optimal so I will brew on day 6 thru 10 and keep a rotating stash in the background.
Good tip
Can you judge the age or quality of beans based on its aroma?
Since it is not air tight, are beans three days in the hopper to much oxidation for med light roast?
Peace! ✌️
Can ypu linl this curve with expiration date ..... Bean life!
Thanks for sharing.
Is it the same with coffee with 15% Robusta?
I know Robusta is aging slower than Arabika.
Hey Chris! Great video, I'd love to hear you talk about reverse osmosis water systems at some point. We're coming up on a remodel for the shop I manage in the next year, and since the shop's inception we've had a stage 1 carbon filter for our water. I know each city, state, etc. is gonna have pretty different water TDS and mineral content, but hey I'm throwing ideas around here.
I've learned a lot! Thank you for your video!!👍
Loved all this info, Thanks!
Love your Videos!! I appreciate the effort and the coaching you provide for brewing coffees. I felt more passionate and learnt more about it :)
Lipid oxidative rancidity is the real nastiness of old roasts
Great vid Chris. What about vacuum canisters vs. vented bags?
Degassing, &Fresnhess
Great stuff .... straight forward. thanks