3 ways to increase coffee sweetness while roasting
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- Опубликовано: 16 июн 2024
- Today's video discusses 3 ways to increase coffee sweetness while roasting. Many of us who are roasting specialty coffee are aiming for sweetness in our cup. I share 3 ways to increase coffee sweetness while roasting by the processing, density and profile we roast. Each of these can increase the level of sweetness we can experience in our cup of coffee.
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Video Timeline
0:00 3 ways to increase coffee sweetness while roasting
1:15 The type of processing can influence the sweetness in the cup
3:33 High density coffee is generally sweeter than low density coffee
4:51 Our roasting profile will influence the level of sweetness we experience of the cup
5:47 Complex reactions & Caramelization will create sweetness in the cup
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I roast coffee on my Mill City 500 gram commercial coffee roaster every week. I also use a Behmor and a hot air popcorn popper to roast some great coffee. Join me as we roast, brew and cup coffee every week at home.
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I am a coffee enthusiast who roasts coffee from home on my sample size commercial drum coffee roaster. Coffee has been in my life for over 40 years, whether I was selling it or roasting it, I want to share my passion with you.
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Ethiopian tip: If you want to select the dense coffee beans from the lighter ones take little samples about 100 grams and put it in a bowl that is half water and see which floats and which doesn’t. The coffee beans that doesn’t float are the ones that we want and the ones that float should be removed for a sweeter taste. It was a traditional thing Im surprised u brought it up. Thank you
A pro tip right here! Awesomee
Thank you for your tip/comment Adnan and for watching my video. I did a video on how to measure for bean density without water. You might find that interesting. But I think you are saying within the beans you are about to roast, separate them based on the density tip you shared?
@@gerardshandykrisna6767 Thanks 😊 traditional methods never fail to surprise
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I’ve been on your page lately I’ll check it out for sure. For me, because I sell traditional coffee(i have a small coffee shop) i roast them together and brew it but for the best coffee experience at home they throw the low density coffee away they don’t even use it.
Adnan pls clarify you use sunk beans?
For roasting is there any need to dry them or direct from water can be roasted?
What is use of floating beans?
Good job putting it all together in a concise, easy to follow guide. I definitely will consider the first two items when buying next time, and the third item during every roast. Thanks much!
Hello Mr. Bullet! Thanks for the encouragement and your comment. Can't wait to see how your roasting goes!
Great video. Thanks for the carefully crafted words to explain it all.
Glad it was helpful Norm. Thanks for the encouragement!
Thank you Mike for sharing your knowledge
Hi Mario, thanks for watching! I’m am glad to share my home coffee roasting journey with you!
I'm using an Aillio Bullet and I have only worked with high acidic coffee so far. My goal was to build some sweetness to offset the acidity.. it took about 35lb of coffee to understand the beans I was working with. My results concluded that low and slow worked best for the particular beans I was working with. 500g of green coffee and a charge temp of 220° C.. I kept the ROR at about 6-7 until first first crack. It took me about 12min to reach FC at that rate and I dumped the beans right before 2nd crack at 16min.. this roast profile resulted in a versatile coffee that was good for pour-over and espresso. Sweet and not bitter.. with a slight hint of acidity. I recently tried this method on a different green coffee and it's like learning all over again. It just goes to show you that each bean is different and has it's own characteristics. There is no cookie cutter recipe that works for all beans so you have to treat each new bean differently.
Great advice Giovanny. That is what i've done with my Guatemala HueHue coffee. I've roasted hundreds of pounds of that stuff and could roast it without logging software ( I have actually) and hit all my marks. Then I go to a Kenyan and it's kicking my but. I call it the crashing Kenyan because unlike any other coffee I've roasted, this one goes into a death dive on my ROR. It's like one of those bombs that sucks the oxygen out of the air. Most of the coffee I roast is higher density so while they are different, there are many similarities in my roast and it isn't like starting all over BUT man, when I get comfortable I get a coffee that reminds me that each bean is different and unique and we need to treat it such.
Thanks for watching my video and for sharing your comments. I've heard a lot of great things about the Bullet. Are you using the auto feature or roasting manually? I would be interested in seeing one of your profiles (image file like a jpg because I don't have the bullet software)
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I'd be more than happy to share the profile I commented about. With the bullet, once I get a roast I like and it's recorded - all I have to do in order to repeat that roast is click one button and it's automatically repeats the roast. I use it for repeatability if I really like the results. I have a half dozen saved profiles, and a basic one I use for testing new beans.. (it's basically a 10ror all the way through). It's very convenient. That being said, Sometimes it's nice to just start with an existing profile and adjust as you go as the software allows adjustability even if you're doing an auto-roast. It will then allow you to save that adjusted profile as a new profile even if you used a pre-existing one. You can start from scratch and create something new, or do an overlay and try to match another profile. It's an awesome machine. Also, I read people had ran into wind issues via the exhaust and this seems to be a non-issue on my end because the exhaust for the bullet is not tied to the machine. It hovers above the machine with a scoop that is routed out the window so there is no direct suction out of the machine as a result, exiting or entering air pressure does not effect the roast. You just need at least 100cfm fan to move the smoke out.
Thanks for the details and the profile Giovanny. It sounds like you are really happy with the Bullet. Lou, who is a subscriber here on my channel just purchased a bullet and will be thrilled with all of these cool features. Sounds like you enjoy a nice smooth chocolatey and sweet cup with some body. Enjoy!
Finally! Someone that is talking about cause and effect of sweetness (and taste characteristics generally) at a micro/molecular level in a way that is logical, succinct and scientifically sound without coming across as a coffee snob or mentioning "in passing" how long they have been in the game. Explained the *why* in the relationship between sweetness and density (not even the focus of this vid) in 30 seconds in the simplest terms (ans: plants grow slower and denser at high altitudes. So obvious, but never thought about it). Then you go into roasting times and sweetness ... boom! So many lights went on. Great video, thank you. About to hit the play list! Very grateful.
Thanks for watching Mark. I appreciate your kind words. I am glad my video(s) have helped your roasting journey!
Very thankful !
Thank you very much for the "Thanks" donation Damien. I'm glad you find my channel helpful.
Very glad you found a new theme..a third thing is preparation of the shot.
Thanks for sharing Erhard. Yes, brewing will affect sweetness. If you are brewing espresso then you have control of the resulting cup. My video was focusing on the roasting elements of sweetness but you make an excellent point. Thank you.
Very interesting video. Thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it Eduardo. Thanks for watching.
My experience as a professional coffee roaster the two most import things to get a so called sweet coffee, starts with a the coffee beans used. a natural processed coffee is going to have the most sugars and aim for a very light fast roasted coffee in the nine minute range. So not to caramelize the sugars. Great video!
Thanks for sharing Coffeeology. I'm curious, are you production roasting? The 9 minute profile makes sense. I generally roast between 9-11 minutes for most of my coffees. The African coffee will usually go on the shorter end. Are you using a drum roaster? What might your phase percentages be on that 9 minute roast? Thanks for the encouragement and for watching my video.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I am semi retired. But yes I have mostly been a commercial roaster for twenty plus years on Probat, detrich, san fransicians and primo roasters. Since retired I roast at home on an custom air roaster mostly. I am old school and do not use profile software. I start at full heats and start backing off during yellowing stage aiming for a rate of rise around 30 to 40 degrees. With most my roasts between 9 to 16 minutes depending on my goal.
@Chrome Cat Coffee really depends on the coffee usually 340 to 360
I've been roasting for several years. Started with a small roaster with a vertical glass tube that blew hot air up thru the beans, then popcorn poppers, then I used a Behmore 1600 for several years and about a year ago I bought a Behmore 2000AB plus. I've always started the machine on manual and just listened for the cracks and that was it. Just last week I started watching your videos and learned there are other ways I could tweak the roast. Lately I've had trouble hearing the cracks, so that's a problem. Sometimes I burn a roast. I turn my hearing aids way up and that helps. Or when I know the crack is coming soon I'll stick a screwdriver in the door so I can hear better. I'm anxious to try some of this especially keeping track of time. Bob S
Congrats on your Behmor 2000AB. Thanks for watching and for sharing your roasting journey Bob. Let us know how things work out with your phase times!
Hi Mike, great information enjoyed your video
Glad you enjoyed it Shane. Thanks for watching.
Thank you for this content! I'm starting on the coffee roasting business and your videos have helped me a lot to craft great coffee.
Glad my videos have been helpful Francisco. What type of roaster do you have?
Hello I hope you are well ......do you have a Barista job vacancy
Great video
Thanks!
What a wonderfully done video. Thank you for helping me get started on my roasting!
Thanks for watching! i'm glad my videos have been helpful. What kind of coffee roaster do you have?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab a skillet, lol. On the education train to purchase town.
Awsome reply. Best to you on your home roasting journey!
Thanks, you are a legend❤❤❤
Hello Andreas, not really but thank you.
Thank you for all that good info! I'm just starting to roast but I bought coffee straight from the farm in Costa Rica for 20 years and always bought their light roast for espresso. Now I see why I loved their coffee - dry processing, high altitude. As well as the variability in their light roasted coffee - sometimes awesome, sometimes flatter. I figured it was like wine and grapes and the growing season, but see that tiny differences from roast to roast was probably a good part of that.... I'm using a popcorn popper for now, so not sure how I can modify some of these times. It took 4 minutes for the first crack to get done (?) not sure if it was done, but I stopped there....now waiting for the outgassing to finish before making my first latte but definitely always want to go for the sweet not bitter cup. thanks!
Hi Becky, thanks for sharing. Im glad my videos have been helpful. The more control you have for heat the better and unfortunately you don’t have a lot of options with the popcorn popper. Next step for more control is to buy a sweet Maria’s popper, a fresh roast, or make a homemade DIY roaster so have more control over your roast times.
I roast with a heat gun and flour sifter. This video makes me want to consider using lower heat in the first 5-10 minutes (18oz batches) to see how it affects the flavors. Thanks for the vid!
Air roasting is a little different as far as heat management and times goe BUT the phase percentages should apply. I hope to do a manual roast on the Hive (small hand roaster) with the same coffee attempting the same profile I was shooting for in this video. Then I think I will come back to the drum roaster for another try.
I would be interested to hear how your roast goes Chris. Let me know. - Thanks!
Another really helpful video Mike. I have a Behmor 2000 which I use in manual mode with your suggested profiles. I have noticed a big difference when I can get close to replicationg your data. However this Behmor is like riding a wild horse! Something that does help is using the drum speed when possible to alter temperature. Otherwise I find that If say, I go from P5 to P4 to P5 then I can loose over 20 degrees Celsius after I have pushed the P5 button the second time.. And all temps are nowhere near Behmor's cut out temps.
Anyhow qudos to you for developing this great video series. I am learning heaps.
Thanks for sharing John. I'm glad my videos have been helpful. One element to consider with the Behmor is the fan. We know that when roasting at the 1/2 lb setting the fan kicks on at exactly the 5 minute mark. If you are roasting using the 1 lb setting it is 7 or 7:30 or something like that when the fan kicks on. So, one thing I have to to keep the wild horse from kicking me off is to compensate for the fan by anticipating it's heat sucking impact. Watch your temp closely and around the 4:40 mark, increase your heat. By the time the heat ramps up the fan will kick on and instead of loosing 30 degrees, you might only loose 15. Give it a try and let me know what your experience is.
No matter what roaster we have, there will always be some sort of quirk or deficiency in it's design or capabilities.
Good tip about the fan Mike. I’ll give it a go and report back. Thanks.
John
My Ethiopian friends in Jerusalem taught me to always wash coffee beans before roasting.
I’ve heard this before. How wet do you get them and how long do they dry before you roast them. Also, what are you using to roast, a pan?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab i rinse them very thoroughly in not cold water, room temperature or warmer. It's surprising how much residue is removed . . . more than you would think. They are wet when I place them in the charge-temp skillet. Clearly this has resulted in a more even roast.
It doesn't matter to me how inconsistent my beans roasted out, there's always a way to save it in the brewing process. For instance my lighter first beans will be reserved for pour-over, and any darker beans can be brewed with espresso type drinks, especially with milk. Using milk is a great way hiding bad, unwanted taste, profiles. But normally I like to slowly, start cooling down soon after first crack, if I hit second crack it'll start burning really quickly.
Thanks for sharing Peter. What are you using to roast and what roast level?
That's what I do too. Light roast with water fresh off the boil and darker roasts either moka pot or espresso appliance. I'm saving for an espresso machine.
May you have many great cups 2 come. 😊😊😊
Thank you for the knowledge sharing, I'm shouting from Indonesia.
About to roast some sweet honey processed Arabica from West Java 👍🏻
Sounds great Fahmi, thank you for the shout out! Enjoy your roast, it sounds delicious.
Halu Banana ya bang? Salam sesama roaster asli Nusantara
@@noustrant yg kemarin Halu Banana, Halu Natural sama Halu Winey.... boleh sih masing2 ada kelebihannya
The absolute biggest change for me to get more sweetness in the cup was changing my grinder to a higher quality and secondly changing my dripper and brewing technique.
I would say the biggest issue most home roasters have is a low quality grinder.
It's really difficult to dial in a roast when it's impossible to get a good grind on those beans (seeds).
I'm using a 1zpresso Q2 now and it has crazy ability to produce sweetness from every coffee I've thrown in it. It's really mind-blowing the difference.
The grinder I used before was the Timemore C2. It was next to impossible to get sweetness out of ANY coffee is used in it, no matter the roast.
I thought I was just hopeless at getting sweet roast flavors. No matter what I tried, nothing seemed to work. But... it was just my grinder.
Thanks for sharing. Yea, the grinder does make a huge difference. I was able to get sweet notes by moving to the clever dripper. The inconsistent grind size I was getting didin't play well with my Kalita. Now i have a fellows Ode and it is clearly a better grinder providing a nice consistent grind.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab excellent!
I would love to hear your story about how that has changed your coffee tasting AND especially your perception of your your roasts and roasting ability.
that's amazing. and tempting for me to try. I just looked up that grinder and it's not that expensive. On sale now for $89. I have a manual grinder made by Zazzenhaus. It's brass, and it's designed for Turkish grind, but the grind size is adjustable. It's got conical burrs. I wonder whether 1zpresso would make a noticeable difference.
@@pimacanyon6208 Is hard for me to say, as I don't have any experience with that grinder. But... if you've tried many different coffees and grind sizes with that grinder and tried different brewing techniques, I'd say it's a an issue with the grinder.
I will note that the Q2 grinder IS THE 7 BLADE VERSION, NOT THE 5 BLADE VERSION.
From what I've heard, there's a vast difference between the 2.
@@GoTellJesusSaves thank you!
To me the honey washed is preferred I do like a deep second crack for a stronger finish and to reduce the acid in the cup .And I like mixing roasting separate of course for a start middle and end of cup experience. What are your views on a three been mix?
Hi Craig, thanks for watching my video and for your question. Yea, I have blended coffee before BUT I do it after the coffee is roasted. This might not be convenient if you don't want to roast that much coffee but it really helps if you are trying to roast for origin. Say you want to have a 3 bean blend. by mixing them after you roast them separately, it allows you to roast each origin/bean type based on the characteristics you are after. If you roast them all together then you might miss out on what the beans have to offer as far as tasting notes. If you are roasting all of them dark to 2nd crack then I guess it might not matter as much.
How do you identify the end of the "drying phase" when determining how long it is? Is it temperature, color, what? I roast in a bread maker with heat gun. The heat gun has 2 settings and I have it through a router controller which basically gives me a low and then medium to high with incremental adjustments. I was recommended the following baseline settings when I first started: max heat until TP, drop down to a lower temp until about 4 minutes, then max temp again until nearing first cracks, then roll heat back for development. Seems like I may want to stay at a higher temp for drying and possibly slow down the browning phase? I don't have my bean temp notes in front of me, but I hit first cracks at about the same temp/time you show here with similar overall roast time.
Hi Matt. Great question. So there are several methods used to determine when dry end occurs. There are not in any particular order:
First is temperature. There are some who will always mark the end of dry when the temperature reaches 320 degrees or whatever number they decide. It usually ranges from 320-340. This is helpful if you have no real visibility of the bean color while roasting.
Second, as just mentioned, color is another method to determine when you have reached dry end. It is my preferred method primarily because it is most accurate fir most coffee yet decaf coffee can be challenging. Then it is best to use both color and temp as a guide. I call dry end when there is no green left in the beans.
Third is smell. When you go from
A grass like smell to a hay smell, that is another sign you have reached dry end. This method is usually used with one of the other methods to verify the end of dry.
Marking the dry event accurately is important if you are trying to chart your roast phases, which sounds like you are doing. Air roasting usually has shorter roast times compared to a drum roaster but the phases are still applicable.
Interesting channel 👍you got a new sub and like😊
Thanks DDS Rdds, I appreciate your comments and or watching my videos!
I currently do not roast coffee. I have toyed with the Idea though. If I do it will be in a 10 inch cast iron skillet. I will consider walnut oil but am intrigued by oil of anise. When I was I'm Austria in 1980 I was served some pitch black coffee that had a delicate Licorice sweetness. I don't know if the bean itself had licorice flavor or if the flavor was a syrup or oil of a nice or what but it was profoundly the best coffee I've ever had. I do pour overs.and am getting good at preventing bitterness but the anise oil is easily over done. There is.certain out of.oil left on top of my black tar coffee it is very thick. I was instructed to.put butter in my coffee to save my stomach. It's like solving the 180degtee ambiguity in navigation . Thanks for the convetsation.
Thanks for watching and for sharing your experience. Sounds like a dark roast coffee. I have read tasting notes of licorice described by others so it is possible ;-)
Hi Mike, I have a decaf from Summatra that wants to jump to second crack with little or no sound during the first crack. How do you deal with this? Trying to maximize whatever sweetness may be in these beans seems almost impossible to me.
What are you roasting with Mitch? Sounds like you have too much momentum moving through first crack. Lower your heat more than you are currently as you start first crack.
to enhace sweetnes in my coffe i add just a tiny drop of honey and a quarter teaspoon sugar.
Thanks for watching. That’s how a lot of people add sweetness to their brewed coffee. My video was about increasing sweetness “while roasting”. Some coffees are more bitter like robusta type coffee. They really do need the additional sweetness after the roast unless bitter taste is what they like 👍
I been learning to roast coffee mainly from your videos for the last few months. But I kinda ran in to my first hurdle. I roast on a propane stove, essentially a double boiler type set up to get the pan hot with less scorching. I have a thermal couple about half way down in the pan to get the bean temps(at least in theory). I can’t not seem to get my Bella Vista Right at all. And because of the Bella Vista being a honey processed I learned the charge temp needs to be a little lower. I get the temp to roughly 350f dump the beans in, then the turning point is roughly 170-190f after about 1 minute later. Then dry end lasts till about the 6 minute mark. The. First crack is between 8-9min, the. Hit the RDT roughly at the 11-12 min mark. But it comes out tasting well under developed, but if I charge at higher temp, it gets baked. Do you have any ideas?
Matthew, based on your phase times, you should be close to a decent roast. Can you share a little more about the roast level you are trying to achieve (color and taste) and also share why/what is telling you it is under developed? Also, take a bean, crack it open from the center line and look at the inside color (ignore the chaff) and see if the color is consistent.
Thank you for your reply, and sorry about the late reply. They recommended that this bean to be a light roast, but since I’m still learning I go to RDT of 20% and then change it to fit the taste better once I can get use to roasting this coffee. The best way I can describe it being under developed is its sour and also still tastes like the green beans smell. As far as inside the beans, for the most part the beans have a solid dark brown but there are some that are spotty from facing and tipping.
Matthew, try to extend your middle/browning phase. If Dry is at 6 minutes you want to slow down the roast a little more so first crack takes place around 9 minutes or a little longer like 9:30, then at first crack, lower the heat a little more to slow the roast a little more and drop it around 15-17 percent development. Give that a try and see if it tastes any better. The total roast time should be around 11 minutes.
Your videos are very helpful. I’ve been roasting for several years; but only recently have I been putting effort into fine-tuning/controlling my roasts. I had noticed that once in a blue moon I’d get a phenomenal roast, and the rest of the time just fair. I wanted to be able to consistently get those better roasts, so started listening to your channel and taking notes of each roast. Not long ago, I got a phenomenal roast. The next time I roasted that bean I was too much in a hurry to follow my notes, and got an “ok” coffee. I just roasted again, following the notes I took during the great roast, and got that success again! I appreciate your channel.
So it depends on what you buy, and then, how you roast: not too dark, and especially not too long in the last phase. Roasting always ist heat over time. Knowledge is important, but try and error also: never give up.
Exactly. Thank you Erhard.
Drying phase : 35%
Maillard phase : 40%
Development phase : 25%
Total hot air roasting time : 9.5- 10 mins.
First, thanks for sharing your phase percentages Kaldipresso! I'm assuming you are roasting on a Kaldi and using Artisan and you are roasting a medium roast? What type of coffee are you roasting? Have you experienced any roast defects based on that short dry phase? I'm not saying it is too short. I am really interested to hear how your profile impacts the cup. I'm also interested in hearing about your ROR on the Kaldi. Sounds like you are ramping up with a high ROR for a nice descending rate. Thanks for sharing. I would love to get a 35-40 on my dry but I get defects with my Mill City 500 gram.
I'm a beginner roaster, can I ask you a question? What is biggest difference in terms of development phase between hot air roaster and conduction roaster? Because if I use conduction roast I will not reach development phase in 25% if I try to roast the beans in 10 mins. It will always more than 10 mins if I reduce the heat after first crack to raise the development, or if I try to catch up the roast time to 10 mins the development phase that I got are maxed in 16-17% in 198-200° C
@@noustrant air roasters roast coffee quicker. So, times will be different. I believe the general principles of roasting still apply to air roasting as far as phase percentages. Conduction roasting will allow you to roast more than 20% development but you have to control your heat. You apply more heat earlier in the roast and then after dry end, lower heat to extend development. Once you hit first crack you will again control your heat, and slow down the roast more to allow the development time to be long enough.
What are you using to roast coffee?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I see, thank you for the short and easy to digest explanation. I oftenly use slow roast technique, by using high heat on charge and gradually decreased the temperature in the each stage, the usual time to roast a batch of coffee it's about 13-15 mins, for espresso beans with medium to dark profile, with drop temp about 210-215° C, and 20-24% development. I'm using 3kg Drum in Local Brand Conduction Roast Machine. In my country hot air roast machine is still not too popular, it's quite rate for a roastery to have that roaster, so it's a brand new experience for me to watch the content of Hot Air Roaster. 👍
May I ask you, what is the tips to make a proper light roast profile? I always afraid that if I do that the beans will be underdeveloped.
hey is natural process the same as "dry" process? thanks!
Dry process and Natural process are the same thing. The cherry is picked, sorted for ripeness and then laid out on flat surfaces (some elevated and some are not elevated). This drying lasts up to 6 weeks. During that time the cherry is moved around to ensure good airflow and even drying. Once complete, the cherry is bagged and taken to a process location where they are hulled (the seed is removed from the fruit) and then the final process step before bagging is dry milling where the skin of the seed is removed.
I'm using a 3kg kuban roaster and I'm using natural Brazilian coffee for medium roast and I'm not getting the sweetness I need.does it mean I'm goin fast or slow on roasting?or which roast level will have sweeter taste for me please
Not enough info Onesmus. Please provide the specific coffee, charge temp, total roast time, and your phase times/percentages along with your drop temperature. Then I may be able to offer an answer that could be helpful. Thanks.
Good day to y'all,
Trying to find out where can I get a "french mission bourbon burundi that is dry processed?"
I've seen Kenyan french mission bourbon like this - www.cafeimports.com/europe/offerings?category=origins&keyword=french%20mission%20bourbon&location=*&tab=archive&view=beanology.view.karehe-11092
Hi, Is it okay for all coffee roast to get oil released first before stop roasting.
Hi Charlotte, great question. The short answer is, "it depends". If your intention is to roast coffee to the point of second crack, you won't really avoid the oils. If you are roasting coffee to develop sweetness and preserve the "origin" notes, you will want to roast lighter than second crack and you will avoid the oils.
The choice is up to you and your roasting style. There are many people who like roasting that dark. Even national coffee shop chains are doing it. It might be more difficult to find that type of roast at a cafe where they serve specialty grade single origin coffee.
My personal opinion is not to roast to second crack. The oils will quickly turn bitter and any of the tasting notes you were trying to attain from the coffee origin will be lost.
Let me know if you need further explanation. Thanks for your comment and for watching my video!
Thanks for feedback, appreciate your video.
Do you consider a light roast to be underdeveloped?
It depends on what you mean. If the beans have reached first crack, they are developed enough for drinking. There is an entire range of "development" that is determined by what you are trying to achieve in the end flavor profile. I have roasted and drank some wonderful coffee that had a short development like 12%.
I have also had some light roast coffee that has a much longer development time (18-20%).
A very large factor in roasting a light roast is not just roasting time but the end temperature and color of the bean. If the roast was really fast you might not have an even roast and the center of the bean might be lighter than the outside. On a roast where you slowed down the pace as you enter first crack (lower ROR) you can extend your time, get your development but still have your desired lower temp.
Can you share a little more about what you mean by underdeveloped? Maybe i could give a better answer. Also, let me know what type of roaster you are using.
Thanks for your question and for watching my video.
I’ve been roasting for about 10 years now and I think that the quality of green beans matters as well
That is a good point NET MATE. I'm currently roasting a wonderful Ethiopian and it is so good that even when my roast isn't so great I still get an enjoyable, really good cup.
I'm still without any idea how much time and correct heat for each phase, in order to achieve a good roast.
Time and heat are variable settings based on the amount of coffee you are roasting and the type of roast profile you desire based on the coffee type you roast. So, there is. I clean cut answer. Also, the type of roaster you use will use different temp readings from different locations.
A good way to figure out times and temps is to target roasting events like the end of dry and first crack. At dry end, your coffee should be yellow regardless of the temperature. At first crack, the coffee will start to make cracking noise, regardless of what the temperature says. So, consider managing your power based on the time you want to get to each event and make adjustments accordingly. I talk about this in almost every video I roast in.
I hope that was helpful.
Thank you so much for this information 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼💕💕👏🏼👏🏼
Glad you found my video helpful Jose. What type of coffee roaster do you have?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I been roasting on a 4oz Nesco air machine for several years then I moved to 1lb behmore,I also been watching a lot of your videos ,I think it’s great the you share your experience for those who want to learn how to roast more accurately and ge better results..I’m about to receive a Yoshan machine and try to start a local business, there is so much to learn,so I’ll be following you along for any knowledge and information about roasting the you can share..Again Thank you so much this info it’s greatly appreciated.🙏🏼🙏🏼😃
That is exciting Jose. Congrats on the Yoshan!
I have found that when I'm creating a dark roast with a Columbian coffee, I can get it quite sweet and chocolatey by roasting fast and hot. Same with an Indonesian mandheling.
The wet-hulled mandheling had to be roasted very fast and very hot.
My best roast with it, I dropped it at the very beginning of second crack. Somewhere well beyond 200°C. (Not sure because my machine doesn't display that high. Total roast time is just over 6 minutes. With 2 minutes of that being post 1st Crack.
It comes out VERY caramel flavored. Very sweet.
I can't do this successfully with any other coffee.
The Columbian, I also drop right at the beginning of 2nd Crack. I take it beyond 200C also. 12 minutes roast time. 2.5 minutes post 2nd Crack.
I extend the middle phase, but intentionally go quickly through 3rd phase. It's the only way I can retain the sweetness and keep it from going bitter.
So...
4 minutes to Yellow.
+5.5 minutes to 1st Crack.
+2.5 minutes to 2nd Crack and drop.
The washed Columbian I'm using can take A LOT of heat without scorching or defects. It also cracks at a relatively high temp (both 1st and 2nd).
Thanks for sharing. That is a really short roast for 2nd crack. Any roast defects like chipping, blistering etc...? You are using the convection oven/air fryer for a roaster right? I'm thinking one of the big differences is bean density between the Colombian and the Indonesian coffee.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Yes indeed. Super short. No defects.
The Indonesian I have is the lightest weight coffee I've used. And it can take a lot of heat without defect.
Yes. Using an air fryer. I have to start the roast with the air fryer at room temp. If I preheat it will not get hot enough to take it into 2nd crack. It starts 1st Crack right at around 4 minutes.
Yea, that is mighty efficient roasting and no defects. Thanks for sharing!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Yes. These air fryers can really cook some beans!
No roasting defects... just to be clear. Some of the green coffee seeds themselves have defects and I don't notice and remove all of them prior to roasting. So I get a few quakers here and there.
a bit off topic, but if your conclusion about higher density coffee having more sugar molecules (because it's denser) is true, then I wonder whether higher density coffee would have more caffeine for the same reason, more caffeine molecules packed into the bean?
Hmmm, that's a good question. I don't know. I know that light roasted coffee contains more caffeine than a darker roast, but I can't confirm density. It seems logical but I don't know.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab thanks. I'll poke around on the interwebs and see if I can find anything about this subject.
I'm a lightweight when it comes to caffeine which is one reason I asked, but I'm going to risk it anyway (heh...) and start buying the higher density coffees based on the info you presented in this video (that they tend to be sweeter). Your videos are good, by the way. Lots of great info, useful info. Thanks for posting them.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab well a quick search provided at least one article that talks about altitude and caffeine content. I would post the link here, but youtube deletes comments that have links in them, so I'll post an excerpt:
"Coffee from high altitude with open or medium shade and early to middle harvest periods gave superior bean quality. These growing conditions also favoured production of beans with lower caffeine. Increasing altitude from mid to high, ca. 400m decreased caffeine content by 10%. "
So they are saying that higher altitudes produce beans with lower caffeine content. Good news for me. The search I did using duckduckgo engine was "do higher density coffee beans contain more caffeine than lower density beans?". First article in the search list is the one that had the quoted text.
You might enjoy the Colombian EA decaf coffees that are out there. Even after the decaf processing there is still a nice sweetness.
Thanks for sharing that info. Interesting.......
A colleague of mine had been using Nucleus link for last few months. Both of us have very little experience in roasting. We decided to roast same beans 100g (722gm/l density), aiming for light roast. I used Fresh Roast for experiment. We waited for 7 days to degas the beans before comparing results. My beans from Fresh Roast had almost no aroma. The color was right for light roast but it smelled like hay. The espresso it produced was terrible. Whereas my colleague's Link produced excellent coffee with chocolatey, nutty aroma. We are going to try dark roast on same beans as next experiment. For a novice like me, Fresh Roast is not a good machine. It's good for someone who has lot more experience and patience to do research/experiment. I think I was lucky previously on dark roast. But I don't like drinking dark roast coffee.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I’ve been roasting on the link for the last few weeks and it can roast good coffee with little experience. I’m sorry you’re not happy with your fresh roast .
Unfortunately unless you roast a similar profile between the two roasters, the comparisons aren’t really going to be helpful.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I agree. He shared roast profile that he used. I made comparison and found that FR heats up pretty quick, even at 9-1. Whereas Link heats up gradually. There is no pre-heating in Link. Whereas I did 1 minute pre-heat. His final internal air temp was 220C. Mine was 200. Lot of dissimilarities. I tried to mimic his profile on FR just an hour ago. I'm going to rest the beans for 4 days. Let's see how that goes. It was quite a challenge to maintain the temperature curve on FR. I don't think FR with any setting can go from 20-75-110-125 at 0-3-60-90-120 seconds respectively. The best I could get was 20-100-130-140 with 1-9 setting from 0 to 120 seconds. FR is drying beans too fast. I used Peru Chirinos Cleyder Altamirano for this experiment. Loss was 13.2% (for 100g). Beans look darker than medium.
That is the problem........ you are roasting 100 grams in the fresh roast. You need to roast a heavier charge. The roasting chamber of the LINK is small. The other problem is you are comparing temperatures. These are two different machines with different position of probes. The best thing you can do it time your events to match. If the colleague is roasting 100 grams on the LINK, you should be roasting 150 grams on the SR540. Start with a heat setting of 5 and leave it. Then, adjust your fan speed. As the roast moves along, the coffee will get lighter and start to really bounce around. Time your event for dry, first crack and drop to be similar and you should get results that are much closer. Watch my freshroast video I did a couple of months ago and you will see what I am talking about. ruclips.net/video/J3GEK9ydJr4/видео.html
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thank you so much for taking time to analyze this issue. I'll follow your suggestions and try next roast this weekend. Btw I modified roast chamber so that the thermocouple sits in the middle (in upward direction) of roast chamber. My meter doesn't have logging capability but I record internal air temp after every 30 seconds.
This wind is killing my roasts I have make a box for my vent to exhaust into that blocks the wind
Steve, that is something I have been fighting for years. I used wind barrier and wood stakes to deflect the wind but it is far from perfect and there are some days we have strong gusts. The wind gets between the houses and there is no stopping it. Just be sure you have enough open space where you are not choking your exhaust and causing back pressure.
Also be aware that mice and small animals love shelter!
@@VirtualCoffeeLab yeah I was just thinking of a simple box where the smoke will come out of the with some screen on it. Even when it's a slight wind it really affects it
hmmm, consider which side of the box you will put the screen. The size of the box will be important. The bigger the better as far as airflow.
What phase of roasting brings the wonderful strong aroma out?
Hi Whitney, thanks for watching my video. Roasted coffee is constantly giving off wonderful aroma's. As it get's older the aroma will change and eventually fade away. It's interesting. After a short period of time, Freshly roasted coffee aroma's may begin to fade but as you grind them you can smell them again!
To answer your question, all 3 phases give off aroma's. How you roast the coffee will determine the "aroma" after you have finished roasting and have stored the coffee. You used the term "strong" when describing the aroma. I don't want to make assumptions but it sounds like you enjoy the aroma of a dark roasted coffee? Kind of like starbucks? Maybe you could clarify that a bit more. If that is the case, the "development" phase and the final end temperature of the coffee as it leaves the roaster will determine the aroma.
If you enjoy the more acidic, less roasty, floral and fruit aroma's, the browning phase (middle phase) and the development phase both influence the aroma.
I am using ikawa roaster. It seems everything is preprogrammed :(
You don't like the programmable feature Lung21? That seems to be one of it's selling points right? It has a great following and many of the professional roasters use it for sampling. I think there is even a competition for that roaster isn't there? Not positive about that. Anyway, I wonder if they will ever develop a larger capacity roaster?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab i think you misunderstood me. I like their roaster. It always produce a constant and good result. However, for the home roaster, you cannot fine tune the timing unless u pay 30 dollars per month. The good thing is they have enough of profile. I don’t not see any issue so far. The one you were talking about if the ikawa pro. It won the competition. For the larger capacity, ikawa home roaster increased the size to 100g last year.
Hello Lung21 - Thank you for your message. Yes I was thinking about the professional model. I might be able to borrow the professional model from a friend to experiment and do a few videos. I don't have money to buy the Ikawa, they are very expensive. Sorry about that. I am happy you like my videos to learn. Thank you.
@@VirtualCoffeeLab I think this is better to try the home version which is 9xx. The professional one is 4xxx. This is too expensive for me too and not really for home roasting :(
Just a spoon more sugar😉
Thanks for watching and for your comment DDS Rdds. Sugar is an option to add sweetness but we are still left with the bitter side of the roast.
So, as far as adding table sugar to your coffee, to achieve the same experience of sweetness, I would say it isn't the same. It would make sense that table sugar would add sweetness to your cup but there are a couple of thoughts that come to mind that say the end result you are tasting will be different than roasting for sweetness.
- The complex flavors are not just sweet notes but other tasting notes like nutty, caramel, syrupy butter. If we don't allow these complex reactions to take place, not only do we loose the sweetness but potentially the other flavor notes we enjoy.
- If your coffee is bitter, it remains bitter except you are trying to mask / compensate with the table sugar.
- If your coffee is bitter, it could also indicate other aspects of the flavor profile you might not want. (less acidity, darker notes on the flavor spectrum) which you won't get unless you are roasting for sweetness.
These are some points that come to mind but I have no knowledge other than my experience with adding sugar to coffee that might say otherwise. Even after roasting for sweetness, and having success doing so, some will still add sugar and or cream and that is perfectly fine. Some like the bitterness and then sweetening their cup with sugar. It gives the coffee a little "bite" so to speak which many people want in their coffee. It all comes down to personal preference.
What do you think?
So, coffee liquid has sugar itself, doesn't it? I've searched for coffee's nutrition facts and it says that coffee has 0 carbs
Thank you for your question and for watching my video Pham. I will do my best to try and answer your great question. Ultimately the "perception of sweetness" comes when we apply heat to a green coffee seed. Over time the coffee goes from a grassy smell during dry to the beginning of a sweet aroma at dry end. The cellulose structure of the coffee seed breaks down into a simple sugar (carbohydrate) and many different subsets of this including sucrose are created. both glucose and fructose are subsets of these. So, the further you go into the roast, these molecules breakdown and eventually at the end of your roast there is very little sugar left. The higher the density of coffee, the more dense the structure of the seed and ultimately the more sugars will be. Ultimately, there will be more perceived sweetness in the cup. The best video I could find to try and explain this is from Joe Morocco, when he was doing the roasting school videos at mill city. this video here ruclips.net/video/fMHLClnf40s/видео.html starts right at the point where he talks about your question. I recommend you watch this for a better answer than mine. He spends about 10 minutes addressing this.
What do you mean by sweetness?
That is a great question Patrick. I'm referring to the natural sugars within the coffee seed. To increase sweetness we first should consider a bean that has more natural sugars which include natural process coffee and higher density coffee (high altitude). Also while roasting, our profile we use can highlight the natural sugar molecules as we apply heat over time. The amount of heat and time will either cook away the sweetness so to speak or can be highlighted. That is what I am referring to. All coffee is bitter but the way we roast the coffee allows us to balance the coffee so it highlights the sugars in the cup. Have you ever smelled the "syrup" like smell at the bottom of the cup ? That is an example of the sweetness I am talking about. I hope my response has been helpful. Thanks for your question and for watching my video :-)
@@VirtualCoffeeLab Can we achieve the same experience of sweetness under contemplation here by just adding a small amount of sugar to the brewed coffee? Does sweetness have anything to do with things other than the carbohydrates in coffee?
That is an interesting question Patrick. People add sugar to coffee all day long. I am not saying that if coffee was roasted differently we won't want or have to add sugar. That wasn't my point in the video. Many people struggle with having bitter notes in their coffee and my video was meant to share ways to increase sweetness and reduce bitterness. Ultimately, like I mentioned in my previous post, roasted coffee generally falls into the bitter side of the flavor spectrum but roasting for sweetness helps balance the flavor notes and sweetness can shine through the bitterness. The caramelization occurs when we apply heat to the coffee bean, the moisture is being removed and the sugars are broken down into complex polymers which produce the sweet notes. By not achieving this you end up with a more bitter cup. By not doing this we end up with either flat and dull coffee or even bitter coffee. So, for many of us, the goal is to roast for sweetness.
So, as far as adding table sugar to your coffee, to achieve the same experience of sweetness, I would say no, it isn't the same. It would make sense that table sugar would add sweetness to your cup but there are a couple of thoughts that come to mind that say the end result you are tasting will be different than roasting for sweetness. .
- The complex flavors are not just sweet notes but other tasting notes like nutty, caramel, syrupy butter. If we don't allow these complex reactions to take place, not only do we loose the sweetness but potentially the other flavor notes we enjoy.
- If your coffee is bitter, it remains bitter except you are trying to mask / compensate with the table sugar.
- If your coffee is bitter, it could also indicate other aspects of the flavor profile you might not want. (less acidity, darker notes on the flavor spectrum) which you won't get unless you are roasting for sweetness.
Again, these are all points that come to mind but I have no knowledge other than my experience with adding sugar to coffee that might say otherwise. Even after roasting for sweetness, and having success doing so, some will still add sugar and or cream and that is perfectly fine. Some like the bitterness and then sweetening their cup with sugar. it give the coffee a little bite so to speak which many people want in their coffee. It all comes down to personal preference.
What do you think?
@@VirtualCoffeeLab It all makes reasonable sense. I was only asking whether the term sweetness could be a precise term or whether it was a sort of general term that was pretty close to 'tastes good'. Sounds like you're also saying that it's the opposite of bitterness or that to some degree it's on the other side of a spectrum from bitterness. So, I then wonder what bitterness means. Traditional definition is chewed up asprin or the strips that are used to see whether or not someone is a 'super taster'. The conversation and the different answers that people have about what sweetness in coffee is seems important because of how often the word is used, and how differently.
Yea, sweetness is a tricky topic and you hit the nail on the head, it is the opposite of bitterness. From what I understand and have learned so far roasting coffee, We can control the level of bitterness based on how we manage our roast. Consider roasting or saute an onion. As we apply heat the onion becomes kind of transparent, then it starts to gently brown. Those onions are getting sweeter through the caramelization process as we saute them. But, if we go too far with the heat, the onions will start to get dark and take on bitter notes. This is what i'm talking about as far as applying heat over time to our beans. We can lower bitterness by maximizing sweetness.
I'm not a super taste or chemist Patrick. Just a home coffee roasting enthusiast like you. I appreciate your comments and question.
Some constructive criticism if I may. My intention is to be helpful and not negative or demeaning.
The premise you chose isn't quite the same as two out of three things you mention.
Instead of "3 ways to increase coffee sweetness while roasting" it could've been something like "3 things to consider if you want a sweeter cup"
Only your third option talks about roasting, the other two are about green bean selection.
It's not to say the first two options aren't valuable to know about, just that they don't quite fit the premise of your video.
Does that make sense? I hope that's helpful.
Hi Justin. Thanks for your observation and constructive criticism. Uhhmmmm, yea, you are correct. The "while roasting" does not make sense for the first two points are not "while roasting". I think the title "3 ways to a sweeter cup" would make more sense. I will be more careful to try and accurately match my title with the content. Thank you for pointing that out.
I won't bother you with details or motives for why I used that title suffice to say it all boils down to SEO and the RUclips machine. "sweeter cup" has no connection with roasting coffee at home as far as RUclips is concerned. I have to build the bridge for YT or else my video won't be as visible to the YT audience. So I'm in a pickle when it comes to title selection so RUclips knows who to push my videos to. My tags, keywords and all that tells YT who to show the video to has to match my title keywords. So, that caused me to phrase the title like I did. I will be more careful in the future, but it is challenging to have short titles that are loaded with the keyword/phrase that follows what YT wants.
Thanks again Justin. What kind of roaster are you using? Any suggestions for video topics ?
Thanks for the clarification and insight on YT's algorithm. Sounds like being between a rock and a hard place if you want to get your videos seen.
To answer your first question, I have been roasting with at Gene-Cafe for about 4 months now. I actually prefer brighter acid coffees and am roasting light Ethiopian or Rwandan coffees at the moment. I've enjoyed the taste of these more than the varieties that are geared towards sweetness but I probably can chalk that up to still being a novice roaster. This is why I clicked on your video to get some insight on roasting for sweetness.
If I am being very selfish in terms of video topics it would be videos on using the Gene-cafe to get the most out of roasting specific varieties of coffee. But that's just me being selfish. @@VirtualCoffeeLab
Thanks for understanding Justin. With regards to the Gene-Cafe and other roaster specific "how-to" experiences, I would love to do that. Unfortunately it means I have to pony up and buy one While I'm not opposed to that, the Gene-Cafe isn't cheap. I was considering "borrowing" one from a viewer that isn't using one they had laying around. I'm building up my courage to ask. We will see. Same thing with the Fresh Roast units. I would also love to do a live stream sometime and maybe do a give away or something. That would mean I either give away a roaster I purchased (like the popper) OR have a manufacturer donate one as a sponsor for the giveaway but my channel isn't big enough for that. Plus, all of that takes time and I have limited time. I work full time so.....
Anyway, i'm surprised you are roasting for brightness with the Gene-Cafe. My understanding is they are slow & low profile roasters. I'm glad it is working for you! Thanks again for your comments and for watching Justin.
The sweetness of coffee comes only from the sweetness in the mucilage. No magic wand can do anything at the roasting level.
Thanks for watching and for your comment. Yes, sweetness does come from mucilage left on a natural or honey processed coffee. Washed coffee, has no mucilage. Unroasted coffee is made up of different components including carbohydrate (both dietary fiber & complex carbohydrate which are made up of sugar molecules.
the easy way i do it out side, i do it by color not by time . i use a pan to water to cool the beans.
let dry and de= gas wheelchair larry
Thanks for watching and sharing Todd
What’s your point ! You talk un relevant to your title .
Thanks for your comment Eye town. I had 3 main points.
1. You can increase coffee sweetness by roasting natural process coffee
2. You can increase coffee sweetness by roasting high density coffee
3. You can increase coffee sweetness by crafting your profile to maximize sweetness.
Within the 3rd point I had several sub-points that focused on time being spent in the browning phase as well as the development phase to promote sweetness.
@virtualcoffeelab please help me buy a good coffee roaster
Thanks for watching and for your comment. Do you have a question about a particular roaster? How much coffee are you roasting each week?