GATSO CAMERA, LASER DEVICE & CAMERA VAN - SPEEDING SOLICITOR
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- Have you been caught speeding? Want to avoid points or a ban? Motoring Offence Lawyer - Visit www.speedingsol... or call Marcus on 0151 422 8020.
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Laser speedscopes are not calibrated by the manufacturers, in the UK they are returned to the importers (example Tele-Traffic), who do not make the equipment.
when the government says its for your own good, get ready to open your wallet
Or slow down and keep the money in your wallet
Very informative, free advice. Thank you
Lollygaggle: Although the ACPO Code of Practice was 'withdrawn' from the ACPO Website in Dec 2008 it is still used by almost every police force that we have contact with. Removal from the website whilst it is updated does not mean it is not relevant. Most speed camera operators refer to the Code in their witness statements. We have also received confirmation from various forces that the ACPO Code is still used. We have also received confirmation that the new revised Code will be issued shortly.
@lollygaggle What you are stating is precisely what I would expect the prosecution to state. In addition, I am sure you will agree, the manufacturer's instruction manual for every device is also relevant and details what should be done to calibrate and operate the device.
I have recently won a case on this point that went on for some 10 months and the expert's report (on the effect of a laser fired through glass) was several pages long. It was far from simple and nobody from the police or the CPS understood it! We are now in the process of recovering costs from central funds.
@SpeedingSolicitor As I stated earlier, yes some constabularies do indeed still refer to the guidelines, some even clinge to the visibility guidelines laid out by the DfT that appeared in the defunct guidance manual for safety camera partnerships. This is because as I also pointed out, that's all there was & once it was withdrawn, it seemed like a good idea to carry on with the general principles it outlined.
However, there are no current relevant rules, or even guidance.
@SpeedingSolicitor The references you cite that some constabularies refer to TAG is quite correct. However this is solely because this would mean an absolutely frameless structure upon which to base operations. That said, the guideline's review date of 31st December 2005 (found on page 2 of the document) passed without that revision taking place & it was officially withdrawn & has zero standing as a form of defence. When questioned on it, I simply say it no longer exists.
Now whilst you state that at 340m, the beam divergence equates to 3-4ft wide, only half that beam width is active, the perimeter of the signals returned from the periphery of the active portion returns a signal that can be measured..
So at 340m, the active part of the beam would measure 20ins = less than 2ft.
The laser speedscope was originally designed to be used in orbit to measure docking vehicles. This was meant to be done directly through glass.
lollygaggle it's all for the money
@lollygaggle Thank you for your response and for taking an interest in our work. You sound like you have particular knowledge and experience of laser devices, etc, and it would be good to talk with you. Please call me anytime. If you happen to be near our office please pop in for a coffee anytime.
It is a legal requirement to have a secondary measurement for speed. This is why at every Gatso speed camera location there are white lines painted on the road. The distance between each line represents between 5mph so there can be no dispute over how fast you were driving. If there is any dispute over whether the radar technology captured the correct speed of the vehicle that was speeding the white lines are there as a secondary measurement.
Gatsos must be visible and clearly signposted though
Your a true hero to us that speed like we say it’s not is we are a danger it’s more how much for ur services to get us off the charge good lad
@lollygaggle Although the ACPO Code of Practice was 'withdrawn' from the ACPO Website in Dec 2008 it is still used by almost every police force that we have contact with. Removal from the website whilst it is updated does not mean it is not relevant. Most speed camera operators refer to the Code in their witness statements. We have also received confirmation from various forces that the ACPO Code is still used. We have also received confirmation that the new revised Code will be issued shortly.
Thank you for these videos
Awesome advice, thank you
Dear Marcus,
I found your videos on youtube- very informative,
You seem very knowledgeable and acute in your field of work,
Are you able to tell me if mobile speed camera vans produce a flash?
I am aware that that cameras facing the front of the car do not produce flash due to safety-however I am not sure its the same principle for both front and back
Thanks in advance,
Arora
Only a van using mobile Gatso kit would emit a flash. This would be very rare.
Front facing Truvelo cameras do produce a flash, although it is filtered.
@SpeedingSolicitor The guidelines were only ever an attempt at creating a perceived level of fairness when netting-off came into force. We have incrementally moved away from them since 1) the hypothecation changes, 2) they were withdrawn & 3) all funding was stopped back at the end of March 2011.
From experience, it is a revelation when you tell officers that the guidelines went 3 years ago, most simply didn't know & only adhere to the practices because they know no better.
The ACPO Code of Practice and the Manufacturer's manual confirms that the laser should not be fired through glass. We won a case last week specifically on this point. The police officer had fired the laser through the window of the police car believing this was ok to do. The CPS accepted this was wrong and dropped the case. This case was also reported in the press - see our Blog at speedingsolicitor.co.uk.
Brilliant vids thank you.
The manufacturers refer to beam width of 3-4 feet at a distance of 1000 feet. If the CPS wanted to argue anything other than this then it would need to get an expert witness into court. This is something they will rarely do because of cost. I have not heard before that only half the beam is active.
let's cut to the chase here. Revenue collection!
I agree, watch your speed instead of watching the money out of your wallet
You cannot be fined for keeping within the law
Less fines means less revenue, and more money for you
You need to ask about speeding camera's What class laser is it and what is its NOHD safe range because all distance ir lasers are dangerous to the human eye, it only takes a fraction of a millisecond to permanently damage a person's eyesight.
Contrary to your belief, many police and civilian operators have never attended a training course run by the manufacturer. I've lost count of the number of officers who have received "cascade training" - meaning they are trained by another officer who was, in turn, trained by another officer, etc. I've never yet come across an officer who has been able to explain in evidence the effect of firing a laser through glass.
@SpeedingSolicitor NO UK police or civvies have ever attended a training course run by the manufacturer, training is done by the importers.
Yes, as you term it, cascade training takes place, but this is only done following the completion of an instructor's course & accreditation. The actual manual operation of a speedscope is very simple, as is the subject of acquiring a target thru galss - it isn't type approved, so don't attempt it.
@alastairellis It is highly reassuring that speed enforcement takes many forms.
The manufactuer's manual confirms that the laser shouldn't be fired through glass? Be specific, which manual & the page number?
I quote from the LTI UL1000 manual 'Keep in mind that acquiring a target through glass will reduce the unit's maximum range'. The bottom of page 25.
The original unit was designed specifically to be used through the glass of the space shuttle. It is only lack of type approval that creates the loophole.
I got a done just a few weeks ago I was doing 32 in a 30 I have driven for 40 years without ever getting a ticket. I was driving my dads car on the day they sent the paper work through saying I had done 35 which I did not do. I told my dad after I saw the camera thing on a stand with a very old lady at the helm I bet I get a ticket as am just over 30. I was so upset when they said 35 but it turns out they can not fine me unless it's 35 or over. I have admitted I was driving as I don't want my dad to be upset about it all. They ended up offering the speed course which runs for 4.5 hours to tell me how to drive! I am gutted and peed off if I had seen this vid 3 weeks ago I would have defo challenged them on the positioning of the camera which was hidden by a wall just coming into the 30 sign and I was coming into the 30 sign off a bank so you have to shift gear to come up a bank so I soon as you hit the 30 sign you have to start breaking. I think it was a very clever place to catch people out. Again totally gutted after 40 years of clean driving...it's all about the money and always will be to these people am £85 lighter and have to take 4.5 hours out of my time too
Did you not know that you have to be slowing down and doing 30mph by the time you have reached the sign, not drive past it at 40mph and then slow down? - that is where so many drivers go wrong
I was taught that in 1988 when I was taking driving lessons, several years BEFORE cameras first appeared, and although not perfect, I've always borne that in mind, but I admit to slipping up once, in 2005(?), doing 36mph in a 30mph zone, in a 7.5t truck- I also had it showing on the tachograph.
I just accepted the fine, took my points and became more observant of my speed again - my own fault nobody elses
@SpeedingSolicitor It is interesting to note that since the new guidelines have been out for over a month, no-one is openly discussing them as they are nothing more than a precised version of the previous ones with obvious chunks discarded.
Having seen draft versions over the past year, the final published version is a thoroughly worthless document.
Hi thank you for your beautiful videos ,The maximum speed limit 20 mph but I've been driving 24 mph as it was raining and dark and Claudy and I didn't see the camera & and I didn't see it sign 20 miles per hour can I win the case in this occasion as I received penalty notice ?
Hi , Police officer claimed I was speeding when I wasn’t. I asked him proof for speeding but he said “my speeding gun turned off so no proof .I refused to accept and challenged . Now he said in witness statement that all videos are saved.
However, to argue the effect of beam spread in the particular case would require an expert to give that evidence to the court. This is a normal process, just as I would ask an expert (doctor) to produce back calculations of alcohol in someone's blood for a drink-drive case.
In any event, you can see the potential benefit for the defence where the police officer does not understand beam width, etc. I also represent a number of motorcyclists where the width of the bike is substantially less than 4 feet! This means that part of the laser beam will bypass the bike entirely.
SpeedingSolicitor do mobile camera vans take a picture of the driver or just the plate?
@alastairellis You have avoided answering - why does a horsebox influence accuracy?
If a speedscope is 'wobbled' during use it simply returns an error meassage - usually ERROR 3. Marcus has no experience of using any of the equipment & relies on biased hearsay.
@Lugmag001 By what method is trapping carried out?
Can you provide anything to substantiate the additional points in Ireland claim?
Heres one you've all probably heard before speed camera Gatso on opposite side of dual carriageway car travelling on the other side to the camera (oncoming) flashes once only
Does the driver get caught or is there little to no evidence to be caught?
Thanks! You put me right to sleep!
In addition, I'm pleased to say, the vast majority of officers do not even know how a laser works.
I've had a can with camera that was parked on a double bend and on school zigzags as I came off a roundabout that my car holding 4 people and being a 1L engine could not do the 37 that fast if it tried how can I go against this please
🤣
Not surprising, they don't even know the law half the time.
Or even have the slightest clue about LAW, and they often don't know their OATH, to serve and protect without favour or malice 🤔
@@sollykhan2385 Serve and Protect? You have been watching too many American cop shows.
@SpeedingSolicitor Can you substantiate why you still refer to the ACPO Guidelines as having any operational relevance? The Guidelines were withdrawn in Dec 2008 & subsequently have not been replaced.
What a about road safety partnerships, ie not caught by police, does that make a difference?
ogfeen
Speeding in the UK hasn't been decriminalised, the section of a partnership that detects speeding motorist is the police.
I have just received a speeding manned van ticket saying between two junctions which are aleast 2miles apart it does not tell you precisely were the alleged ofence took place is this right.
I was doing 45ish mph on a dual carriage way, speed limit was reduced from 50 to 40, I breaked heavily just a couple of feet before the first white line on the road camera markings, when I stopped breaking I was doing 37mph, but another car alongside me did the exact same thing, but he was didn't break as much as I did, but my car was blocking his number plate throughout the camera markings on the road, this happened in day light so I couldn't see if it flashed, what should I do?
lollygaggle nothing has come yet and its been over two weeks, how long will i have to wait?
lollygaggle yes I am everything to do with the car is in my name
Adil De Silva
Then providing your details are held accurately at DVLA, you would appear to be in the clear.
@@ADZDER
did you get anything?
@lollygaggle I cannot agree with you. I have cases every day where the police state very clearly that they followed the ACPO Code (you refer to them as guidelines) and therefore the ACPO Code is directly relevant to the evidence and accuracy of the operator's actions. I also have letters from the police stating the ACPO Code is relevant and is being followed today.
@SpeedingSolicitor I will ask you a further question - where is it written that it is a condition of type approval that anything written in any manual must be adhered to? The code of practice was produced by police, not the Secretary of State so does not fall within S20(5).
i was traveling from fife to edinburgh and back again yesterday where they have this stupid smart motorway system i dont like speeding see no point of it so when the gantry had the speed changed to 40 i did 40 with people rocketing right past as i was going the speed of the road then the first camera flashed since i could hardly miss the bright light it has and i did the same speed all the way through the motorway and none of the other speed cameras went off but when i was coming back done the same thing said to drive 40 so i did 40 and the other one coming back flashed me at both times i had 2 cars at either side of me but i was out front. what do i do im 25 only held my licence for 3 years i cant afford to have points on my licence and im pretty much in panic mode not once have i ever disobeyed the rules of the road
The guy the invented the speed camera once stated that it was one of his biggest regret. As it has been abused
Great information, thanks👍 I've noticed that this video is 8years old does the information still apply to today's cameras? I got a conditional offer of fixed penalty ticket from an officer who jumped out from behind a tree and their vehicle was parked on a side road out of sight. I had just gone past a yellow road camera on a sloppy road and the officer said he clocked me doing 49mph on a 30mph using a hand held device. I'm considering challenging the matter but I'm not sure what happens if I were to lose. Would my obligation be to honour the original penalty only or would it have gained interest? Also highly unlikely but would they add extra points than the original penalty? Many thanks
i am going through similar thing. what happened? please let me know thanks
@Lugmag001 I very much doubt that additional points can be dished out just because you opt to go to court, that being one of the options that must be offered. Someone is either winding you up or has misunderstood what has taken place.
Why do you think 'trap' is appropriate? Are the vehicles camouflaged?
I cannot understand what point you are trying to make. How does the information you have given help the average motorist? I represent people involved with speeding offences every day, and have done so for several years. Issues of beam spread are stated in manufacturers instructions and Wilkinsons Road Traffic Manual.
The facts discussed are of an extreme technical nature and have been completely distoted by this video.
This is from my experience working with laser devices for over 25 years.
+Howard De Iongh before you start giving out advice learn to spell DISTORTED-you fool
I got 4 points like this . magistrate court and cop play game we don't understand what you trying to tell. I had papers from company who made that laser gun and they confirmed what I been telling to court but this information been dismissed. also cop fail provide paper where when was last time calibration of gun and what witness.
+jozefsan
You had papers from the company who made that laser gun and they confirmed what I been telling to court?
Which laser speedmeter are you citing? What had you been telling the court?
it was few years back so dont remember, but court was pretty much set from start against me. when i asked for calibration police office said it was done and court take that as prove, no paper needed of calibration.
pretty much typical magistrate court circus
Do camera vans clock your speed and ticket you as there driveing and not parked up ... an you pass one . Am i right in saying they wouldnt be operateing the camera gun while on the move
@kombat Sports & Fitness late reply lol
@lollygaggle It should also be worth noting that, from a defence point of view, it is very helpful if an officer states that the ACPO Code does not apply. If you are familiar with the ACPO Code you will appreciate why. Looking for 'loopholes' is only one small part of a defence case and, in any event, I do not find it a chore at all.
Today I was doing like 33/34mph on a 30mph, however the sun was so bright I couldn't tell if I got flashed. The camera itself is outside a police station but it was on the opposite side of the road. The lane I was in doesn't have the white road markings like the other lane. Just wondering if I should expect the dreaded letter through the door. Cheers
Did you get one? I think they start flashing at 35/36 mph
Wow thanks for the heads up I always go 30 at speed cameras then speed up but I thought that they were ok with 4mph over... I guess it's more revenue for them
+laserdiffusersuk.
Who does you for anything over 32mph?
You're in the clear......
With friends, warned of speed trap so I drove at 29-30 mph, I later get sumonds saying I was doing 36mph. I the radar must have hit my car and then part of the racks I have that hold and suport my hang gliders to get this reading, if indeed it did. But what crap, I have to pay the fine as how the hell can I fight a court case. speeds should be taken over a lenght of road to be accurate. Cheers all, Pete
@alastairellis Why do you believe a horsebox would influence the laser?
Speeding must be the only crime , that just by having a picture of a registration plate the registered keeper is guilty .
How many cars are on UK roads that are identical apart from a number plate .
The law is wrong but when the gov is raking in the money nothing will change
No , that is not the case . What happens is two photos are taken of your , vehicle passing over white lines painted on the road . It's the time taken to pass between them that is counts .
Hi speeding solicitor.
Is dash cam footage that records speeds via gps admissible in court.
Everytime i pass a gatso van etc i always upload the footage to my pc incase im wrongly accused of speeding.
7 months old but hey ho.
The problem you're going to have is that I guarantee that you will not have some sort of proof that your Sat Nav GPS is calibrated. The cameras in the vans and cars are regularly calibrated as is required by Home Office Regulations.
@A.M There are 2 types of tests that are done, and people regularly get these confused:
1- Calibration Tests, which are done once a year by the Laser's Manufacturer.
2- Confidence Tests, which are done by the Police before and after use.
Besides, there is no requirement for the police to prove the device was calibrated at the time of the offence.
No,if the device is not calibrated then the reading is erroneous and you cannot be prosecuted on erroneous evidence.
@@eugeneoreilly9356 Ok thankyou eugene.
@@Jonesykins Thanks for that d jonesable.
Why is there so much static in the audio?
It may be digital information going to his phone like a message or email.
This "claim" about pin point accuracy in hitting the number plate with a radar device on an approaching vehicle could surely be challenged on the basis that speed detection devices that only apply to certain vehicles are unfair to those who aren't exempt - normally those not as rich as the owners of supercars. For some reason the police are reluctant to take any action against owners of such cars who don't want to spoil the sleek look of their cars with a front number plate. Plenty of video evidence on RUclips of police ignoring the absence of a front number plate on such a car.
@SpeedingSolicitor To encapsulate, no matter what is said, intimated or suggested, the ACPO Guidelines is, at the time of typing these words (& for the past three years), not been relevant. A new version has been promised ever since. Yes, it did exist, currently it does not.
I do however understand how the complete lack of operating rules and guidance impact the construction of a viable defence. With very little binding legislation, finding loopholes becomes a real chore.
Hi I was doing around 36-37 in a 30 approached a camera van however it was a weird looking one. Had all doors and sides open and the police officer was stood at side of road talking to someone. After doing some research I found the vehicle and it has a camera on either side and a front and a rear facing handling beam. Are these things automatic or does the officer need to be shooting the beam? Already on 3 points and jobs on line. Please let me know thanks
The side and front cameras are just CCTV and the laser has to be fired in attended mode.
@@unleashthedragonwithin2057can u please reply me wther the speed camera van also catches while they are moving and also rear window closed? Thank you
@@fareesansari8227 No, not when they are moving and not through closed windows.
@@unleashthedragonwithin2057 thank you do much. I was worried as i passed one coming towards me. Thnx again mate. Cheers
Here's an interesting one. Once upon a time, I was hit by a laser from a police car parked up a farm access track firing perpendicular to the road. When he chased me down, and stopped me. I asked him for a callibration cert for the laser. He invited me to come to the station in Wexford to see it. I suggested that it should actually be kept with the equipment itself. I subsequently looked at the instruction manual for the device which expressly stated it should be used parallel to the road and ideally reflected off the number plate of the vehicle and use perpendicular to the road would lead to slippage. When the ticket arrived, my name was spelt wrongly so when I tried to pay the fine, they wouldnt accept it. i rang the fines office who said I would have to contact the officer and get him to re-issue the ticket. I respectfully suggested that I would not be doing this and I'd take my chances in court, and they said "Its ok, they can change that on the day in court". I suggested to them "good luck with that" and for a laugh, tried to contact the officer. After leaving 3 messages with no response, I rang the fines office back and said I'd had no luck and that I considered the matter closed. They cancelled the fine. I supect that the officer involved thought I was trying to see the calibration cert that he didnt have and was avoiding me. Just shows that they're a bunch of conniving crooks.
@Willy Wonka which is odd because when I used equipment to gather evidence I certainly did have to.
They don't have to keep the calibration certificate with equipment or produce it at the road side.
@@NoBody-gf8ie I never said they did. Read again.
@@casinodelonge you said, "I suggested it should be kept with the equipment" I was simply telling you it doesn't have to
@@NoBody-gf8ie It would represent best practice, because when I was using scientific equipment to collect evidence in accordance with PACE, thats what I had to do. The fact that the Guard subsequently didn't want to meet me lead me to believe the paperwork was not necessarily in order.
What is your success rate?
@alastairellis That's odd, Marvin knows of you.
@alastairellis We have relatives over in the emirates, you don't know Marvin de Menezes by any chance?
What's the average cost to fight a speeding ticket
It depends if you lose or what defence your legal representative has to construct in terms of travel and man hours.
Absolute scam... They just want your money, and have no
interest in your case..
When it goes to court (which it will ) they will get you a barrister. They charge £1800.00. ( inc VAT ) for the barrister, the barrister gets paid approximately £400, when I asked why the charged me so much, they wouldn’t reply...
Lies, Lies, Lies
@alastairellis Hi, thanks for responding, so what you are saying is that you have no expereince yourself other than biased hearsay from people who want to take money from you in the belief they can help you avoid a fine & points.
RUclips is equally as much about education, so my advice is at least attempt to assimilate factual data & not the misinformed waffle that the majority attempt to throw your way.
what about community speed watch they ain't even the police but they inform the police of drivers speeding what can they do
Not a hope off them winning in court.Dont worry.
@alastairellis So what you are saying is you have no definitive information regarding speedscopes.
My advice is, spend some time doing some detailed research, then come back when you are better informed.
@Lugmag001 If police states are really the way forward, then how do you explain the reduction in funding, manpower & resources that have impacted the police service?
With far fewer officers out in the streets, how does the government exercise repressive control over the population that hinges on policing based offences?
Whilst I accept the concepts of Freemanism, modern life unfortunately is not geared up to be controlled by scribblings on 13th century animal skin.
Hey BARRY how’s it hanging ?
@alastairellis Thank you 'alastairellis'
Anyone else checking their phone for messages or calls during the vid? :D
Wait a second, just checking my phone for messages and calls. I will comment in a sec
Hey Speeding solicitor do you live at 10 Rillington Place..I think the cops are after you
LOL
Should you raise any technical question of a police witness in court, the standard response is that they are not experts and cannot answer. The CPS then ask whether you have your own expert witness. Your view of the legal system appears to be rather simplistic and not, I'm afraid to say, based on reality. Your comment on pinging targets through glass being "very simple" makes me laugh.
Use false plates like we do !!!
You mean cloned plates?
@@BlackBeltBarista99 Nah just any number or from scrapped cars etc
@@bertiewooster3326 How do you get the plates printed as you will not have the appropriate documents? That's perverting the course of justice and any company going along with it are equally guilty?
@@BlackBeltBarista99 someone makes them mate its simple black letters yellow plastic white plastic all available on the net use iron
@@BlackBeltBarista99 no company is making them use your thought processes as to how they can be made !
@alastairellis Odd you label others as 'bullies' - yet it is you who calls police 'pigs', & other users village idiots, then start becoming paranoid when things don't go your way.
Police are pigs
Just buy a GSXR 1000 take the plates off and ride how you want, 200mph past a police van. No more tickets 🤙🏽
But what is the fine if I'm pulled by traffic police? Yes I know you can outrun them etc, but you might just be at a set of lights or something and they appear behind you.
Sometimes you can't always outrun them depending where you are.
So any idea what the fine is? Is "it fell off officer" acceptable excuse? Cheers
@@jackjack-xi7je Depends.
£100 no points for failing to display a rear reg.
If they can prove you took it off intentionally you're looking at perverting the course of justice, the max sentence is life but ofc you're not going to get life for just taking the reg off, probably a large fine at most.
Has anyone been nicked for speeding at 36 mph, this seems to be the speed that the camera vans nick you for even though you have not been speeding.
They actually commence at 35mph.