Thanks, Spirit, I’m currently faced with this dilemma, but now know what to do. Unfortunately, in the 10 minutes of this video, all my animals have decayed, I’m still at 7 vills, but I do still have 5 minutes to spare to make that 15-minute fast castle!
@@SpiritOfTheLaw I typed “Don’t attack me, I’m watching SotL rn!” We agreed that fighting with Imp armies is way more fun anyways, so he steamrolled me with bombard cannons and paladins. My villagers didn’t fire a single shot with their bows, even though they had practiced on the boar and deer!
@@mrosskne now that was for sure not the response I was expecting. But if we are talking about stuff outside the game I am pretty sure there are other things better than going around talking to random women. Like I'd much rather have dinner with my gf, go fishing, forage for mushrooms, have a beer with friends or whatever else I might enjoy much more.
@@jakobrosenqvist4691 no no, you dont understand, you gotta go up to random women and go "HOWDY" while wearing light colored jeans, a straw hat and plaid shirt, that fullfills the soul
SotL's ability to come up with interesting videos for topics of the game you hardly ever think about because you've been on autopilot for the past two decades is simply astounding!
About the only way that I will learn mathematics at the age of 39 is if I watch SotL's videos. His analytical approach to AoE2's mechanics is detailed and insightful, as well as being humorous!
I wonder if SotL's analytical videos have an impact on how the pros of AoE2 play (if they didn't already know about the topic beforehand, obviously). For example, this video showcases tiny differences in total food collected and the collection rate which will hardly impact casual players but at the highest level of play even small differences can have a big impact and even snowball effects.
Most pros are splitting among sources in the early game. Seems like they realized it’s the fastest method already. Pros usually don’t care about total food as up time is most important.
I think they started to farm around Folwark after SOTL Folwark's video. Before that, they tend to farm around tc for safety and it made them rate poles as a weak civ.
Actually I think this can have some impact even in newbie games. Certain parts show a difference of 2-3 food per min per vill between methods. That's like 64-96 food over 4 mins. Thats a big diff early game. Especially considering how pros seem to use the least efficient method of splitting villa amongst food sources, especially when luring deer etc. 100 extra food at 5-6 mins is a game changer for pros.
If the scenario at 8:08 occurs and you have all three dead under your town centre, delete the villagers and queue new ones; they were clearly defective.
If you want a maths-y challenge, I would love see a video analysing long distance deer taking. Especially with Goths, Aztecs, Mongol or Berber, I always wonder how much this is "worth it" and what the effective gather rates end up being. You more frequently see pros do a couple dark age farms rather than long distance deer, but I wonder if this is really the best way.
Mongols favour taking with 4 vils up to reasonable distance from tc and or mill due to collection speed meaning less wasted food. Goths always should go with 3 unless strictly beneath town centre or mill Once vikings get wheelbarrow (ie they reached feudal) they should use 3 same as Goths Aztecs should probably stick with 3 as well
Nice Video Spirit! I think there is something that is not accounted for when comparing total food collected vs food gathering rate: The fact that if you collect faster, even if it is less food, you now have an x amount of villager work seconds more than the slower collection rate. I believe this should be factored into the equation figuring out the optimal strategy. If you collect 8 in game seconds faster with 8 villager using one method over another, then you essentially get a free minute of villager work time, which can translate to something like 20 wood. This way you can compare which is worth more: say 380 food or 370 food + 20 wood for example.
I'm so appreciative for this information because whenever I have to make these decisions I wonder, but I've never known! Small differences, but 30 food is almost an entire villager!
This is probably the most counter intuitive result from one of these type of questions I've seen from SotL. I could have sworn that I saw in another vid awhile back that you get ~95% of the food from whatever decaying source with 3 viligers, and that placing more doesn't have that much effectiveness from a total collected perspective. So I've always prioritized having 3 vils on any one animal...Guess I've gotta rethink my food eco now XD.
How does it compare if you have less than 50 food left on a sheep and you split vills say leave 2 on the sheep and 6 on the boar? It looks like from the chart you've got 77 food decay from 2 vills at a full sheep, so if that's linear it's 27 food decay but there's less they need to get so I'm not sure.
1) 6 on boar, 2 on a sheep with 100 food leads to 74 food lost to decay, which is 17% of the total food lost. 2) 6 on boar, 2 on a sheep with 50 food left leads to 56 food lost to decay, which is 14% of the total food lost. 3) Abandoning a sheep with 50 food and putting all 8 on the boar, grabbing what's left after the boar is done, leads to 62 food lost to decay, which is 16% of the total food lost. It's another example of focusing down the partially finished sheep (even with 2 villagers) seems like the best idea (only 14% food lost), which is probably even better in practice considering the collection rate benefit of splitting villagers.
I have not been playing Age of Empires for about a decade, and yet I come back to these videos. Spirit's voice is so soothing and I am feeling nostalgia over just hearing it.
I love that you answer the questions that most have never seriously pursued, but a lot have off hand asked themselves once or twice, if but for a second.
On the topic of dark age stuff, I'm curious about having one lumber woodline versus two woodlines, and the difference it makes. I think it'll be an interesting topic to cover!
1 woodline is decent for faster uptime if youre protected. otherwise 2 line is more important in open maps incase if you get rushed, you have a safety to fall back to. 2 line also allows you to have vils naturally spread to make walling easier. so it comes down to the question of what map/position youre playing
0:30 The two Villagers on the right there Jeff: "Bill, there was an Elephant rampaging towards our Town Centre chasing Mary, why did you decide now would be the best time to kill a sheep?" Bill: "You know what they say, idle time makes for suboptimal Feudal Age" Jeff: "Spirit dammit Bill"
The higher count of vils or free food the better it is to split The less of either favours finishing hunt one by one If you want a super fast castle or even imp though it might be better to be super efficient in terms of total food gathered regardless whereas a super fast feudal favours fastest gather rate possible (assuming you still have enough food left to do your job)
So if we have a boar coming in and the sheep/deer is not yet finished, should our luring villager try to occupy it a bit longer (by hopping into the town center, then out and attack again when the boar wants to go back) until the other animal is finished, or should you just kill it immediately?
I expect it to be similar as Lanchester's linear law. _The only difference is that the impact isn't reinforced, while that only matters as long as there aren't idling units._ In a simple term you want to finish a corps as fast as possible so that the decay of that don't take into account anymore. Like it would be the worst if the villagers are split up in a way that they are all finishing the same time. _So the amount of food typically matters more than the rate of decay._
Great video as usual. I think that the number of animals decaying is likened unto how we calculate idle TC time in capture age. That is, the more animals that are decaying, the more compounded the potential loss becomes, so it makes sense that you get more food by finishing the smaller piles first: the carcass isn't being "idle" if it's finished. I think these calculations are important, especially at mid to higher level play where the margins often have a greater impact. Your video about the Lithuanian food bonus highlights that greatly. Lastly, I think a lot of the habits from older veteran players also comes from a time when the game didn't have shift-queuing and, going further back, a time where you would lose food by switching to another food source (knowing the last part shows my age! lol). It was simply about attention-management, so pros would skip the sheep and go all onto boar because there were more important things to pay attention to and micromanage.
before getting into the math after hearign about collection and deca rates. a thought: if you need your food number to go up quicker, take the ones with the highest collection rate. If you want to preserve the most food take the one with the highest decay rate. the boar combines both of those o.o
Took me a while to get my head round the fact you have two decaying at the same time until you get one off... so taking the inefficient smaller resource gives you overall positive because it is quicker to get down to one... Evidently, I missed sotl saying this and couldn't figure out why it was true 😂
this definitely has been a question on my mind since forever in the past. besides playing to civ bonuses, the only thing i prioritized was the ease of pathing. i didnt want my vils to move from one hunt to another and i didnt want the vils to bump into each other. after all rts is all about less idle time. and bumping into each other and moving from hunt to hunt is technically idle time not directly gathering
honestly the extra food can make the difference of when a farm is placed down, and could lead to extra scout if wood is short. Alternatively, the faster gather rate can make the difference between instantly clicking feudal and some tc idle time
The more villagers you have and the more free food there is nearby (berries fish other hunt) the better is to split vils to some degree to minimize bumps, while still being total food efficient with reason. That being said dont have 5-6 animals decaying In a nomad like start with limited food gathering vil start, focus on one animal only until you reach high enough food vil count (9-10)
Great video ! Been binge watching a lot lately trying to hype myself into trying online.. anyways I was wondering if you happen to see this , if you could make an updated video to civ grades & What you would rank Your best and worst In different Map types. Keep up the good work and I wish you the best.
(Before watching the video) For me it's always about finishing the sheep before the boar to minimize decay. The 6 original on sheep and any new one on boar. For deer it usually dosen't matter that much since at that point the extra micro dosen't balance with the atention of luring and optimal building placement. Let's see how that compares with the videooo (after) I'm surprised by how little in actually matters in practice but it's cool to see it numeracly verficed. Cool video m'an Ghost of the Rule
I think when looking at the boar being faster than sheep, you need to look at what you're going to be doing *afterwards*. If all 8 vills are going to end up on berries or farms after the sheep and the boar are done, we should be looking at the food difference after a few minutes. Being 5-10 food up doesn't really matter if going to a slower method faster means that after 5 minutes, the sheep-first strat is even on food and got to delay building farms by a few seconds.
Ooooooh yes to this one!! There are a finite number of shapes available (for main, secondary, "other") so this would be particularly interesting from a math perspective. Important to note is taking into account getting raided. A related study would be, upon getting attacked, shift-clicking your villages to drop off and then flee, how much extra time does that take leading to likelihood of dying/losing resources. Especially with mining, I feel the escape difference is negligible (many will die regardless) but at least they will have dropped off that precious stone/gold!
Question, sometimes I've seen a boar spawn right next to the berries. Is there any reason not to hunt the boar right next to the mill, instead of luring him to the TC?
Hey SoTL, what do you think about the upcoming dlc "The Mountain Royals" with Georgians and Armenians and the Persian rework. Expecting a video about them soon. Good job keeping AoE content still alive.
Thank you thank you thank you for the very very very rare and useful video, I always had this problem with sheep and boar and deer food source and now I'm satisfied, thank you
Literally the video i been wanting. I been having a hard time doing 18 pop feudal, and my theory was cuz i was splitting to much with 6 on boar, then 2-3 on sheep and 2 on deer
Yeah, if you're trying to click at 18 pop, you've still got plenty of food sources around to collect from, so minimizing decay doesn't really make a difference there (and the rate difference from optimal to what you get with that vill split isn't significant either). I'd guess your problem is either going for hunt too late (while relying too much on slower sources such as sheep and berries), a bad build order for your goal or just general inefficiency/idle time.
@ssssdsdddbb yea i see that as well, i think what my splitting was doing was to much walking. I never get my deer right under tc, so when i am at 18 pop and want to click, my some of my vils have to spend a sec or two to drop off food. So i decide to just do another vil or two. I also did 3-4 on berries. My games today, i switched it back to just one max of two on berries, and 18 pop seem very achievable again. What is annoying when i started doing ranked, i did 18 pop every time, then i started experimenting how to do fast castle and trying to figure a good in between. Which then must up my build order for fast feudal. Which is where i am now.
This solution feels very counter intuitive at first. This is because, the boar with its higer decay rate and higher collection rate, seems to appear to be the better choice for both speed and food maximizing, but in reality, the equation for food maximizing is based on the time each animal stays around multiplied by the decay rate. And with the difference in total food, it makes sense that to minimize that equation, you would need to minimize the time of the smaller food source. This is a totally solvable situation through oure math. Would have been nice if SOTL also showed these equations that he surely must have calculated. Great video as always. Never fail to find obvious, yet hidden problems in this long established game and also present us with a very through solution to it. Now I know Ive been doing it the worst way by following the pros 😅
I think the results are not really counterintuitive. We know that we want to minimize decay. This means as few animals rotting at the same time as possible. As the boar/ele/rhino has so much more food than the other types it makes sense to eliminate the small decay source before settling a longer time on the bit one.
I've always wondered how big of an effect this has. Nice to know it's small enough most players probably don't need to worry about it too much. Any chance you could plug the tatars longer-lasting sheep into the equation?
The thing I'm noticing now though is that it's more about food collection management. It's much nicer to have multiple food sources going so you can jump to another when one runs out. This keeps your villagers from going idle and makes it easier to manage them. And as everyone else pointed out, uptime is king. What I take away from this is that I'm not going to worry much about it.. 2% food difference isn't enough to worry about imo.
Can you do a video on berries? I feel that it is most debated with berries on the number of vills total, vs per bush, bumping, and mill placement over things like stone/gold. and would be a good follow up to early age food
I don't know any other way to get in contact with SoTL, so hopefully he sees this. There was just a big Collab from the Hololive English and Indonesian Vtuber group that played a pretty interesting game of 2v2v2. I'd love to see you cast the game, its always interesting when you do the rare game cast.
So if you have a turkey, a cow, a deer and a boar, the ideals are these right? - Max food: all 8 on deer, turkey, cow, boar - Max speed: all 8 on boar, cow, deer, turkey - Max collection rate: 4 on boar, 4 on cow, then 4 on deer, 4 on turkey
I always have at least 3 villagers collecting on one carcass to not let any food decay. For example I keep my eyes on villagers who go rogue and try to solo sheep when there clearly is time and space to go to the sheep the other ones are on. I don't play AoE a lot, so I'm happy to see that I'm not a complete nincompoop when it comes to optimizing dark age food.
I feel like faster collection rate is what pros aim for : even if you end up with less food, it frees up your vils for other tasks faster, probably why the Britons sheep bonus is considered better than the Tatars' in Dark Age... although, there might be a shift in the meta after they see this video
I think that’d be cool for some semi-nomadic civ. It’d have to he a civ bonus because a tech would be too expensive and time consuming for it to pay off, especially in the early game. I’d also like to see the ability to control deer like sheep as a bonus, too.
I'm mainly a campaign player and just recently try some matches againts the IA (I used to do that in HD too but multiplayer or rather the vs mode never has been my cup of tea) so I'm been doing some research and the basic build orders, rushes and so on. Now, the basic order always is 6 to sheep, 4 to wood, one lures the boar and the next one directly to it, then 3 to the berries. If 8 vils, although the standard, makes choosing which food source to focus a matter of strategy, why don't keep the berry vils in any of this sources instead so, whatever is unattended by the 8 vils, is not wasted?
It would be interesting to give a civ a "cannibalism" bonus, getting some food when killing enemy units. To see how effective a Drush is to gather food.
What hypothetical civ would that be given to? Would cavalry units give away more food when killed while siege weapons give none (or give away wood instead)?
I started playing 1 game every few days when I started in March & just practised a some Skirmish modes to get my Dark Age done well (I've since lost this ability somewhat unfortunately), but I very soon into playing started to do a few on sheep and most on boar. As I think even of ***the villager walk/idle time when they're trying to find a good spot to gather from***. If it happens with the second boar I might even send 1 or 2 extra to berries to insure that 2-1 or 2-2 on berries is fairly efficient right before Feudal click-up, with then maybe 7 on boar and 4 on sheep finishing them off and taking a villager here and there to head to wood right after that. On the wikia it says the aggressive hunt is decaying faster at 0.4 and that pushable hunt like gazelle or deer decay at 0.25 there.
The problem is similar to the one of focus fire. In this case, the "damage" you are taking, is the total food lost to decay. If you finish up the animal that has the least number of 'HP' (=the food on them), then, the "damage" they deal to you, is also suddenly lowered. In other words, you can just look at the problem from the perspective of the total food lost per second. By clearing out the sheep before the boar, you greatly cut down on that :)
A simple way to wrap your head around the math of food loss is eliminating 'sources of decay' as fast as possible. If there are 2 animals decaying, you want to bring that down to 1 as soon as possible to preserve the most food over time. Animals with smaller amounts of food left in them, are removed more quickly, and thus should be targeted first to reduce the rate of decay as soon as possible
I usually send vill #6 to the boar before vill #7 comes out. Usually, the boar comes under the tc right as the first sheep is completely finished. The only problem is that you have to force drop the food for the next few vills to send off to wood
I exaggerated the numbers but this is how I made sense of the math. Principals still apply: Ex 1: - You have a sheep with 30! food left on it. Sheep decays at 6 food every minute. Gather rate is 24 food per minute. - You have a boar with 360 food on it. Decays at 12 food per minute. Gather rate is 60 food per minute. - If you do the first minute on sheep, after 5 minutes you will have collected 264 food (24 from sheep, 240 from boar) and lost 66 to decay (6 from sheep, 60 from boar). 60 food still left on boar. - If you start on the boar, after 5 minutes you will have collected 300 food (300 from boar) and lost 90 food to decay (30 from sheep, 60 from boar). Nothing left of the boar. Ex 2: - You have a sheep with 60! food left on it. Sheep decays at 6 food every minute. Gather rate is 24 food per minute. - You have a boar with 360 food on it. Decays at 12 food per minute. Gather rate is 60 food per minute. - If you do the first 2 minutes on sheep, after 5 minutes you will have collected 228 food (48 from sheep, 180 from boar) and lost 72 to decay (12 from sheep, 60 from boar). 120 food still left on boar. - If you start on the boar, after 5 minutes you will have collected 300 food (300 from boar) and lost 120 food to decay (60 from sheep, 60 from boar). Nothing left of the boar.
In the final example, the best option is to use all 8 villagers to quickly construct the altar they clearly forgot to build so that your offering of animal sacrifices can be *properly* made to the AOE gods.
I tend to lure boar based on my villager order, 6 sheep, 4 wood, 2 more on sheep, the 8th being the villager to lure the boar, if I have cleared a sheep when the boar arrives then I can have all 8 on the boar, otherwise it's 6 on boar, 2 on sheep and new vills on the boar, once the sheep is cleared I use that vill to lure the new boar, around 10-12 now on sheep/2nd boar, a few now on wood. It's not the perfect order, but getting an order done well helps to improving other elements then I can get back to perfecting a better vill order. That way I can focus on learning deer pushing without having to worry about walling and villager order or on scouting etc. etc.
I would have thought focusing thr fastest decaying one would always lead to the most total food, but it seems like it's not that straightforward! Interesting video!
I am always confused what to eat first when multiple items are present on my food plate. Thanks, now I know what to start eating first after replicating same scenario with one villager and he has all three boar, deee, sheep under TC.
I just go 6 on sheep untill I eat them all and then go lure a boar, I take 2 vills form bushes to have 8 on boar. While luring I make a house with the idle 7. I only go deer after all this, sometimes split extras between bushes and gold. I know I'm bad at the game. But is this move bad?
Hey SotL, love your videos. I was wondering if you'd do a farming upgrades video again. I did a test because Hera made a video, and I found that in 30 minutes I saved well over 1,000 wood by having farm upgrades than not having them. The test I did was playing Ethiopians, and doing 2 runs off the same map and placing the farms and buildings in the same locations each time. 1 time with upgrades and 1 time without. The results really surprised me, because I remember your farming upgrades video and you said it didn't matter unless the game went long. However, the in game test didn't show that me.
I think we can all agree that the main take-away here is that if someone criticizes you for killing all sheep at once, you just answer "no mate, i'm just optimizing my food collection rate"
Flow chart for most food being, Animal with least food first and if two animals have the same food, take the one you harvest faster. Flow chart for fastest harvest (no splitting), Animal with fastest gather rate first, and if two animals have the same, then start with the one with most food first.
The food loss equals the collection rate of one villager per animal. The food loss is therefore not dependent on how much food there left, but how many animals the food is spread on to. This explains why you want gather up the smaller ones at first. But winnings deers/boars in front of your opponent is significantly more important than a marginal amount of food loss from any of your food sources.
I feel like food per minute is the more important metric. Most maps have functionally infinite wood, which can be converted into food via farms, so a little food waste means basically nothing. On the other hand, that really only applies to the late game, and early game you might not have collected enough wood to build farms by the time your hunters/shepherds finish. I think the true answer is to figure out how much food you actually need to advance to the next step of your build order, and then to collect that much food as quickly as possible. Ultimately, the build order is what really matters, extra food in your bank doesn't do you any good, it's only when you _spend_ that food on something that it matters.
I was looking to do this exact test for this exact question in Age of Mythology! I'm just going to blindly assume this is the answer I was looking for for that game too lol
I would like to talk about maximum amounts of vills you should put on a source. For deer I never put more than 4 vills cause they already can collect them in 1 go. Increasing this number effectively reduce your collection rate. In fact, I try to hit this number as much as possible. For Sheep I never go over 6. Usually 5 is the optimum. Higher numbers don't allow you to precisely put a new sheep in the pocket to reduce bumping. And for boars I try not to get over 8. 9 ist sometimes possible, but it often leads to a lot of bumping. And usually my rule is: when you have this amount of vills on a food source, DON'T move it away to a new source. And if you have new sources, first saturate the smallest ones and then queue them to the bigger ones. This method is quite good rom a res optimization perspective. But it also allows you to see what your food supply state is. When you see your vills going to the boars as they finished the other sources it's usually time to get new food sources ready. So from an early game macro perspective it makes it fairly easy to handle AND gives good and consistant results. Getting the last little bit isn't as important imo. It's more important to not lose due to oversaturation or losing the overview of what's the food supply situation.
Another question: what is better: spending a lot of time to set up and micromanage the mathematically perfect split between villages to get about 6 or 7 more food, or spending your APM on doing something else?
I must say I had a bit of a hard time following why how much food left on each animal matter. If we are talking about a 100% efficient theoretical model - everything is then liner and time shouldn't really have an impact. At its core it comes down to this: gather from the animal that can be removed from the equation the fastest first, then you have the collections rates and the rotting rates that will determine the total food and total gather time. You will get different percentages by changing the initial food but I don't think percentages are very important here. And come to think of it, if you have one sheep with 1 food left and a boar with 1000 food left, the relative differences should be smaller than with an example with say sheep on 10 food and boar on 30, which contradicts what you concluded right? Maybe I'm missing something.
Well going off the thumbnail you eat the peasants first, the boars are in the king's forests which is his property so it is illegal for anyone but the king to hunt them and the sheep is his consort.
I don’t understand your reasoning. You say that allowing the lower food animal to decay is bad because you end up not getting *any* food from it. But isn’t the higher food animal going to decay for the same amount during that time? (or even faster in the case of boar) Or am I misunderstanding the decay mechanism?
collecting the boar first is faster cause collection rate is faster. But you lost out on total food because you have a sheep and a boar decaying at the same time. For more total food, quickly minimize number of animals decaying at once by removing the sheep as a factor. For collecting food more quickly, go with the one with the higher collection rate, boar. If you go with boar, you will spend a lot of time with two animals decaying at once.
Thanks, Spirit, I’m currently faced with this dilemma, but now know what to do. Unfortunately, in the 10 minutes of this video, all my animals have decayed, I’m still at 7 vills, but I do still have 5 minutes to spare to make that 15-minute fast castle!
Well don't leave us in suspense. Did you win?
Lol yea what happened 😮😅😂
He probably uninstalled the game after that loss
@@SpiritOfTheLaw I typed “Don’t attack me, I’m watching SotL rn!”
We agreed that fighting with Imp armies is way more fun anyways, so he steamrolled me with bombard cannons and paladins. My villagers didn’t fire a single shot with their bows, even though they had practiced on the boar and deer!
In the final example the best thing to do is to put 1 villager on the boar and send the rest to drop a TC on your oponent.
but only if you are Persians...Oh Wait....XD
the best thing to do is turn off the video game, go outside, and talk to women
@@mrosskne now that was for sure not the response I was expecting.
But if we are talking about stuff outside the game I am pretty sure there are other things better than going around talking to random women. Like I'd much rather have dinner with my gf, go fishing, forage for mushrooms, have a beer with friends or whatever else I might enjoy much more.
@@jakobrosenqvist4691 kek nice delusions
@@jakobrosenqvist4691 no no, you dont understand, you gotta go up to random women and go "HOWDY" while wearing light colored jeans, a straw hat and plaid shirt, that fullfills the soul
Our community needs to protect this man at all costs.
From what?
By community you refer to mankind as a whole right?
@@brandonwalker5011 from whatever it is 11.
Id love to see him cover other rts. Dawn of War in primis.
@@SIGNOR-G no, build yourself a different SoTL please. We take this 11.
SotL's ability to come up with interesting videos for topics of the game you hardly ever think about because you've been on autopilot for the past two decades is simply astounding!
AoE2 is like the Roman Empire. Real men think about it on a regular basis 😂
Don't be on autopilot, your AOE gameplay reflects who you're in real life... Yes, I main Burmese, I'm a weirdo.
especially if you never played aoe2 like me. I just like his Videos.
I played 1 and 3
@@keyos4398unironically better games than aoe2 XD
@@ethan1142028 i love aoe3 but sadly aoe 2 has more variety in playable nations
About the only way that I will learn mathematics at the age of 39 is if I watch SotL's videos. His analytical approach to AoE2's mechanics is detailed and insightful, as well as being humorous!
I wonder if SotL's analytical videos have an impact on how the pros of AoE2 play (if they didn't already know about the topic beforehand, obviously). For example, this video showcases tiny differences in total food collected and the collection rate which will hardly impact casual players but at the highest level of play even small differences can have a big impact and even snowball effects.
Yes, at one point pros started to build the first farm on a particular spot because of a Sotl analysis. Devs made a change and now it doesn't matter.
I still build my farms from right to left
Most pros are splitting among sources in the early game. Seems like they realized it’s the fastest method already. Pros usually don’t care about total food as up time is most important.
I think they started to farm around Folwark after SOTL Folwark's video. Before that, they tend to farm around tc for safety and it made them rate poles as a weak civ.
Actually I think this can have some impact even in newbie games. Certain parts show a difference of 2-3 food per min per vill between methods. That's like 64-96 food over 4 mins. Thats a big diff early game. Especially considering how pros seem to use the least efficient method of splitting villa amongst food sources, especially when luring deer etc. 100 extra food at 5-6 mins is a game changer for pros.
If the scenario at 8:08 occurs and you have all three dead under your town centre, delete the villagers and queue new ones; they were clearly defective.
1...11
If you want a maths-y challenge, I would love see a video analysing long distance deer taking. Especially with Goths, Aztecs, Mongol or Berber, I always wonder how much this is "worth it" and what the effective gather rates end up being. You more frequently see pros do a couple dark age farms rather than long distance deer, but I wonder if this is really the best way.
The deer are so dumb they go where ever anyway. The slower the units go the more dumb they are.
Mongols favour taking with 4 vils up to reasonable distance from tc and or mill due to collection speed meaning less wasted food. Goths always should go with 3 unless strictly beneath town centre or mill
Once vikings get wheelbarrow (ie they reached feudal) they should use 3 same as Goths
Aztecs should probably stick with 3 as well
Nice Video Spirit! I think there is something that is not accounted for when comparing total food collected vs food gathering rate: The fact that if you collect faster, even if it is less food, you now have an x amount of villager work seconds more than the slower collection rate. I believe this should be factored into the equation figuring out the optimal strategy. If you collect 8 in game seconds faster with 8 villager using one method over another, then you essentially get a free minute of villager work time, which can translate to something like 20 wood. This way you can compare which is worth more: say 380 food or 370 food + 20 wood for example.
I'm so appreciative for this information because whenever I have to make these decisions I wonder, but I've never known! Small differences, but 30 food is almost an entire villager!
This is probably the most counter intuitive result from one of these type of questions I've seen from SotL. I could have sworn that I saw in another vid awhile back that you get ~95% of the food from whatever decaying source with 3 viligers, and that placing more doesn't have that much effectiveness from a total collected perspective. So I've always prioritized having 3 vils on any one animal...Guess I've gotta rethink my food eco now XD.
In Summary:
*British:* Do the Sheep
*Mongols:* Do the Boar
Celts: Do the opponents sheep
Teutons: Do the Farms
Persians: Do the TC
Vikings: do the enemy Monks and villagers xD
Mario: Do the Mario
How does it compare if you have less than 50 food left on a sheep and you split vills say leave 2 on the sheep and 6 on the boar? It looks like from the chart you've got 77 food decay from 2 vills at a full sheep, so if that's linear it's 27 food decay but there's less they need to get so I'm not sure.
1) 6 on boar, 2 on a sheep with 100 food leads to 74 food lost to decay, which is 17% of the total food lost.
2) 6 on boar, 2 on a sheep with 50 food left leads to 56 food lost to decay, which is 14% of the total food lost.
3) Abandoning a sheep with 50 food and putting all 8 on the boar, grabbing what's left after the boar is done, leads to 62 food lost to decay, which is 16% of the total food lost.
It's another example of focusing down the partially finished sheep (even with 2 villagers) seems like the best idea (only 14% food lost), which is probably even better in practice considering the collection rate benefit of splitting villagers.
I have not been playing Age of Empires for about a decade, and yet I come back to these videos. Spirit's voice is so soothing and I am feeling nostalgia over just hearing it.
I love that you answer the questions that most have never seriously pursued, but a lot have off hand asked themselves once or twice, if but for a second.
On the topic of dark age stuff, I'm curious about having one lumber woodline versus two woodlines, and the difference it makes. I think it'll be an interesting topic to cover!
1 woodline is decent for faster uptime if youre protected. otherwise 2 line is more important in open maps incase if you get rushed, you have a safety to fall back to. 2 line also allows you to have vils naturally spread to make walling easier. so it comes down to the question of what map/position youre playing
0:30 The two Villagers on the right there
Jeff: "Bill, there was an Elephant rampaging towards our Town Centre chasing Mary, why did you decide now would be the best time to kill a sheep?"
Bill: "You know what they say, idle time makes for suboptimal Feudal Age"
Jeff: "Spirit dammit Bill"
It would be very interesting to see a Part two where a growing Numbers of villagers is factored in. Should the next vills pioritise boar or sheep etc.
The higher count of vils or free food the better it is to split
The less of either favours finishing hunt one by one
If you want a super fast castle or even imp though it might be better to be super efficient in terms of total food gathered regardless whereas a super fast feudal favours fastest gather rate possible (assuming you still have enough food left to do your job)
"If that still doesn't make sense, than just, trust me bro." I need to start working this into my technical descriptions.
So if we have a boar coming in and the sheep/deer is not yet finished, should our luring villager try to occupy it a bit longer (by hopping into the town center, then out and attack again when the boar wants to go back) until the other animal is finished, or should you just kill it immediately?
I expect it to be similar as Lanchester's linear law. _The only difference is that the impact isn't reinforced, while that only matters as long as there aren't idling units._ In a simple term you want to finish a corps as fast as possible so that the decay of that don't take into account anymore. Like it would be the worst if the villagers are split up in a way that they are all finishing the same time. _So the amount of food typically matters more than the rate of decay._
Great video as usual. I think that the number of animals decaying is likened unto how we calculate idle TC time in capture age. That is, the more animals that are decaying, the more compounded the potential loss becomes, so it makes sense that you get more food by finishing the smaller piles first: the carcass isn't being "idle" if it's finished.
I think these calculations are important, especially at mid to higher level play where the margins often have a greater impact. Your video about the Lithuanian food bonus highlights that greatly.
Lastly, I think a lot of the habits from older veteran players also comes from a time when the game didn't have shift-queuing and, going further back, a time where you would lose food by switching to another food source (knowing the last part shows my age! lol). It was simply about attention-management, so pros would skip the sheep and go all onto boar because there were more important things to pay attention to and micromanage.
SotL's favorite game is Excel, and AoE2 helps fuel that. Never change. You're a gem and always make my day better 😁
before getting into the math after hearign about collection and deca rates.
a thought: if you need your food number to go up quicker, take the ones with the highest collection rate.
If you want to preserve the most food take the one with the highest decay rate.
the boar combines both of those o.o
Took me a while to get my head round the fact you have two decaying at the same time until you get one off... so taking the inefficient smaller resource gives you overall positive because it is quicker to get down to one...
Evidently, I missed sotl saying this and couldn't figure out why it was true 😂
this definitely has been a question on my mind since forever in the past. besides playing to civ bonuses, the only thing i prioritized was the ease of pathing. i didnt want my vils to move from one hunt to another and i didnt want the vils to bump into each other. after all rts is all about less idle time. and bumping into each other and moving from hunt to hunt is technically idle time not directly gathering
honestly the extra food can make the difference of when a farm is placed down, and could lead to extra scout if wood is short. Alternatively, the faster gather rate can make the difference between instantly clicking feudal and some tc idle time
The more villagers you have and the more free food there is nearby (berries fish other hunt) the better is to split vils to some degree to minimize bumps, while still being total food efficient with reason. That being said dont have 5-6 animals decaying
In a nomad like start with limited food gathering vil start, focus on one animal only until you reach high enough food vil count (9-10)
Great video ! Been binge watching a lot lately trying to hype myself into trying online.. anyways I was wondering if you happen to see this , if you could make an updated video to civ grades & What you would rank Your best and worst In different Map types. Keep up the good work and I wish you the best.
(Before watching the video) For me it's always about finishing the sheep before the boar to minimize decay. The 6 original on sheep and any new one on boar. For deer it usually dosen't matter that much since at that point the extra micro dosen't balance with the atention of luring and optimal building placement.
Let's see how that compares with the videooo
(after) I'm surprised by how little in actually matters in practice but it's cool to see it numeracly verficed.
Cool video m'an Ghost of the Rule
I think when looking at the boar being faster than sheep, you need to look at what you're going to be doing *afterwards*. If all 8 vills are going to end up on berries or farms after the sheep and the boar are done, we should be looking at the food difference after a few minutes. Being 5-10 food up doesn't really matter if going to a slower method faster means that after 5 minutes, the sheep-first strat is even on food and got to delay building farms by a few seconds.
Can you do optimal mining camp placements on differing stone/gold mine generation shapes?
Good idea. Some players get 2 mining camps to get better efficiency but what are the numbers
Wonky shapes always annoy me, I want to put the camp touching the gold pile for minimum distance, but I don't want to also block off mining spots.
Ooooooh yes to this one!! There are a finite number of shapes available (for main, secondary, "other") so this would be particularly interesting from a math perspective.
Important to note is taking into account getting raided.
A related study would be, upon getting attacked, shift-clicking your villages to drop off and then flee, how much extra time does that take leading to likelihood of dying/losing resources. Especially with mining, I feel the escape difference is negligible (many will die regardless) but at least they will have dropped off that precious stone/gold!
@@sandmaster4444quickwall 😁
Question, sometimes I've seen a boar spawn right next to the berries. Is there any reason not to hunt the boar right next to the mill, instead of luring him to the TC?
How aggressive your opponent is I suppose? A drush/flush against exposed villagers could cost you a few of them.
I actually wondered about this just yesterday. Thank you.
Videos like these are why i love SOTL
Hey SoTL, what do you think about the upcoming dlc "The Mountain Royals" with Georgians and Armenians and the Persian rework.
Expecting a video about them soon.
Good job keeping AoE content still alive.
If you have a thought for Food, then this video is food for thought.
Thank you thank you thank you for the very very very rare and useful video, I always had this problem with sheep and boar and deer food source and now I'm satisfied, thank you
Literally the video i been wanting. I been having a hard time doing 18 pop feudal, and my theory was cuz i was splitting to much with 6 on boar, then 2-3 on sheep and 2 on deer
but again the question is are you not having enough total food, or not getting the food fast enough by 17 villagers?
Yeah, if you're trying to click at 18 pop, you've still got plenty of food sources around to collect from, so minimizing decay doesn't really make a difference there (and the rate difference from optimal to what you get with that vill split isn't significant either).
I'd guess your problem is either going for hunt too late (while relying too much on slower sources such as sheep and berries), a bad build order for your goal or just general inefficiency/idle time.
@ssssdsdddbb yea i see that as well, i think what my splitting was doing was to much walking. I never get my deer right under tc, so when i am at 18 pop and want to click, my some of my vils have to spend a sec or two to drop off food. So i decide to just do another vil or two. I also did 3-4 on berries. My games today, i switched it back to just one max of two on berries, and 18 pop seem very achievable again. What is annoying when i started doing ranked, i did 18 pop every time, then i started experimenting how to do fast castle and trying to figure a good in between. Which then must up my build order for fast feudal. Which is where i am now.
When you upgrade all technoligies throughout the age, does it increase your gather rate?
This solution feels very counter intuitive at first. This is because, the boar with its higer decay rate and higher collection rate, seems to appear to be the better choice for both speed and food maximizing, but in reality, the equation for food maximizing is based on the time each animal stays around multiplied by the decay rate. And with the difference in total food, it makes sense that to minimize that equation, you would need to minimize the time of the smaller food source. This is a totally solvable situation through oure math. Would have been nice if SOTL also showed these equations that he surely must have calculated.
Great video as always. Never fail to find obvious, yet hidden problems in this long established game and also present us with a very through solution to it. Now I know Ive been doing it the worst way by following the pros 😅
Source: Trust me bro
best guide 10/10
thanks fot that such important question. I was wondering about that for the last months. thanks a lot.
Thrilling content sir!!!
I think the results are not really counterintuitive. We know that we want to minimize decay. This means as few animals rotting at the same time as possible. As the boar/ele/rhino has so much more food than the other types it makes sense to eliminate the small decay source before settling a longer time on the bit one.
Thanks, that's is actually a really good intuitive explanation. I wish SOTL mentioned that in his video
I've always wondered how big of an effect this has. Nice to know it's small enough most players probably don't need to worry about it too much.
Any chance you could plug the tatars longer-lasting sheep into the equation?
Id suppose tatars would basically turn a sheep into a buffalo with some minor differences
I don't even play this game anymore, but I love watching these videos!
The thing I'm noticing now though is that it's more about food collection management. It's much nicer to have multiple food sources going so you can jump to another when one runs out. This keeps your villagers from going idle and makes it easier to manage them. And as everyone else pointed out, uptime is king. What I take away from this is that I'm not going to worry much about it.. 2% food difference isn't enough to worry about imo.
I was waiting for this video for the last 4 years ❤
Can you do a video on berries? I feel that it is most debated with berries on the number of vills total, vs per bush, bumping, and mill placement over things like stone/gold. and would be a good follow up to early age food
I’m relieved to see that it doesn’t really matter that much
I don't know any other way to get in contact with SoTL, so hopefully he sees this. There was just a big Collab from the Hololive English and Indonesian Vtuber group that played a pretty interesting game of 2v2v2. I'd love to see you cast the game, its always interesting when you do the rare game cast.
So if you have a turkey, a cow, a deer and a boar, the ideals are these right?
- Max food: all 8 on deer, turkey, cow, boar
- Max speed: all 8 on boar, cow, deer, turkey
- Max collection rate: 4 on boar, 4 on cow, then 4 on deer, 4 on turkey
I always have at least 3 villagers collecting on one carcass to not let any food decay. For example I keep my eyes on villagers who go rogue and try to solo sheep when there clearly is time and space to go to the sheep the other ones are on. I don't play AoE a lot, so I'm happy to see that I'm not a complete nincompoop when it comes to optimizing dark age food.
Isn't the decayrate dependent on whether you gather or not? I thought it would decay faster which would leed to splitting beeing necessary
I feel like faster collection rate is what pros aim for : even if you end up with less food, it frees up your vils for other tasks faster, probably why the Britons sheep bonus is considered better than the Tatars' in Dark Age... although, there might be a shift in the meta after they see this video
I love that type of videos. Not too long and a lot of maths
Do you think there should be a TC tech called like "salted meats" that stops decay if killed by a villager? Or perhaps a civ's (team) bonus?
I think that’d be cool for some semi-nomadic civ. It’d have to he a civ bonus because a tech would be too expensive and time consuming for it to pay off, especially in the early game. I’d also like to see the ability to control deer like sheep as a bonus, too.
Aoe2: *leaks massive new update*
Sotl: Anyways heres how to optimize boar
So interesting, as always!
I'm mainly a campaign player and just recently try some matches againts the IA (I used to do that in HD too but multiplayer or rather the vs mode never has been my cup of tea) so I'm been doing some research and the basic build orders, rushes and so on. Now, the basic order always is 6 to sheep, 4 to wood, one lures the boar and the next one directly to it, then 3 to the berries.
If 8 vils, although the standard, makes choosing which food source to focus a matter of strategy, why don't keep the berry vils in any of this sources instead so, whatever is unattended by the 8 vils, is not wasted?
It would be interesting to give a civ a "cannibalism" bonus, getting some food when killing enemy units. To see how effective a Drush is to gather food.
Bro what
What hypothetical civ would that be given to? Would cavalry units give away more food when killed while siege weapons give none (or give away wood instead)?
I will do you one better: your own dead villager refund 50 food
Magyars would be the only vaguely logical civ
I came up with a Melanesians civ, representing mainly Fiji, that has that bonus. Fiji was infamous for cannibalism.
I started playing 1 game every few days when I started in March & just practised a some Skirmish modes to get my Dark Age done well (I've since lost this ability somewhat unfortunately), but I very soon into playing started to do a few on sheep and most on boar. As I think even of ***the villager walk/idle time when they're trying to find a good spot to gather from***. If it happens with the second boar I might even send 1 or 2 extra to berries to insure that 2-1 or 2-2 on berries is fairly efficient right before Feudal click-up, with then maybe 7 on boar and 4 on sheep finishing them off and taking a villager here and there to head to wood right after that.
On the wikia it says the aggressive hunt is decaying faster at 0.4 and that pushable hunt like gazelle or deer decay at 0.25 there.
Props to SotL for not randomly capitalising letters in his video title
I always did sheep first for more total. Didn't realize the difference was that small but makes sense.
holy moly what a great video. thanks bro
The problem is similar to the one of focus fire. In this case, the "damage" you are taking, is the total food lost to decay. If you finish up the animal that has the least number of 'HP' (=the food on them), then, the "damage" they deal to you, is also suddenly lowered. In other words, you can just look at the problem from the perspective of the total food lost per second. By clearing out the sheep before the boar, you greatly cut down on that :)
A simple way to wrap your head around the math of food loss is eliminating 'sources of decay' as fast as possible. If there are 2 animals decaying, you want to bring that down to 1 as soon as possible to preserve the most food over time.
Animals with smaller amounts of food left in them, are removed more quickly, and thus should be targeted first to reduce the rate of decay as soon as possible
“Just trust me bro. I did the math”
Sotl’s entire RUclips channel described in one sentence
I usually send vill #6 to the boar before vill #7 comes out. Usually, the boar comes under the tc right as the first sheep is completely finished. The only problem is that you have to force drop the food for the next few vills to send off to wood
Could you make the best arbalesters comparison in different situations?
I exaggerated the numbers but this is how I made sense of the math. Principals still apply:
Ex 1:
- You have a sheep with 30! food left on it. Sheep decays at 6 food every minute. Gather rate is 24 food per minute.
- You have a boar with 360 food on it. Decays at 12 food per minute. Gather rate is 60 food per minute.
- If you do the first minute on sheep, after 5 minutes you will have collected 264 food (24 from sheep, 240 from boar) and lost 66 to decay (6 from sheep, 60 from boar). 60 food still left on boar.
- If you start on the boar, after 5 minutes you will have collected 300 food (300 from boar) and lost 90 food to decay (30 from sheep, 60 from boar). Nothing left of the boar.
Ex 2:
- You have a sheep with 60! food left on it. Sheep decays at 6 food every minute. Gather rate is 24 food per minute.
- You have a boar with 360 food on it. Decays at 12 food per minute. Gather rate is 60 food per minute.
- If you do the first 2 minutes on sheep, after 5 minutes you will have collected 228 food (48 from sheep, 180 from boar) and lost 72 to decay (12 from sheep, 60 from boar). 120 food still left on boar.
- If you start on the boar, after 5 minutes you will have collected 300 food (300 from boar) and lost 120 food to decay (60 from sheep, 60 from boar). Nothing left of the boar.
Was just thinking about this thank you for the video
Your videos have very high entertainment value :)
In the final example, the best option is to use all 8 villagers to quickly construct the altar they clearly forgot to build so that your offering of animal sacrifices can be *properly* made to the AOE gods.
I tend to lure boar based on my villager order, 6 sheep, 4 wood, 2 more on sheep, the 8th being the villager to lure the boar, if I have cleared a sheep when the boar arrives then I can have all 8 on the boar, otherwise it's 6 on boar, 2 on sheep and new vills on the boar, once the sheep is cleared I use that vill to lure the new boar, around 10-12 now on sheep/2nd boar, a few now on wood.
It's not the perfect order, but getting an order done well helps to improving other elements then I can get back to perfecting a better vill order. That way I can focus on learning deer pushing without having to worry about walling and villager order or on scouting etc. etc.
I would have thought focusing thr fastest decaying one would always lead to the most total food, but it seems like it's not that straightforward! Interesting video!
I am always confused what to eat first when multiple items are present on my food plate.
Thanks, now I know what to start eating first after replicating same scenario with one villager and he has all three boar, deee, sheep under TC.
I just go 6 on sheep untill I eat them all and then go lure a boar, I take 2 vills form bushes to have 8 on boar.
While luring I make a house with the idle 7. I only go deer after all this, sometimes split extras between bushes and gold.
I know I'm bad at the game. But is this move bad?
Hey SotL, love your videos. I was wondering if you'd do a farming upgrades video again. I did a test because Hera made a video, and I found that in 30 minutes I saved well over 1,000 wood by having farm upgrades than not having them.
The test I did was playing Ethiopians, and doing 2 runs off the same map and placing the farms and buildings in the same locations each time. 1 time with upgrades and 1 time without.
The results really surprised me, because I remember your farming upgrades video and you said it didn't matter unless the game went long. However, the in game test didn't show that me.
I think we can all agree that the main take-away here is that if someone criticizes you for killing all sheep at once, you just answer "no mate, i'm just optimizing my food collection rate"
Hearing SoTL say “trust me bro” made my afternoon lol.
Flow chart for most food being, Animal with least food first and if two animals have the same food, take the one you harvest faster.
Flow chart for fastest harvest (no splitting), Animal with fastest gather rate first, and if two animals have the same, then start with the one with most food first.
>havent played aoe2 in years
>video about efficient boar/sheep harvesting
must watch now
I usually go for the 50-50 split, because sometimes i forget about the hunters and they might just wait for new orders for like half a minute^^
The food loss equals the collection rate of one villager per animal. The food loss is therefore not dependent on how much food there left, but how many animals the food is spread on to. This explains why you want gather up the smaller ones at first.
But winnings deers/boars in front of your opponent is significantly more important than a marginal amount of food loss from any of your food sources.
As someone who is really passionate about math I love those videos!
I feel like food per minute is the more important metric. Most maps have functionally infinite wood, which can be converted into food via farms, so a little food waste means basically nothing. On the other hand, that really only applies to the late game, and early game you might not have collected enough wood to build farms by the time your hunters/shepherds finish. I think the true answer is to figure out how much food you actually need to advance to the next step of your build order, and then to collect that much food as quickly as possible. Ultimately, the build order is what really matters, extra food in your bank doesn't do you any good, it's only when you _spend_ that food on something that it matters.
I was looking to do this exact test for this exact question in Age of Mythology! I'm just going to blindly assume this is the answer I was looking for for that game too lol
I don't even play AoE 2 at all yet I still watch videos like this
I would like to talk about maximum amounts of vills you should put on a source.
For deer I never put more than 4 vills cause they already can collect them in 1 go. Increasing this number effectively reduce your collection rate. In fact, I try to hit this number as much as possible.
For Sheep I never go over 6. Usually 5 is the optimum. Higher numbers don't allow you to precisely put a new sheep in the pocket to reduce bumping.
And for boars I try not to get over 8. 9 ist sometimes possible, but it often leads to a lot of bumping.
And usually my rule is: when you have this amount of vills on a food source, DON'T move it away to a new source. And if you have new sources, first saturate the smallest ones and then queue them to the bigger ones.
This method is quite good rom a res optimization perspective. But it also allows you to see what your food supply state is. When you see your vills going to the boars as they finished the other sources it's usually time to get new food sources ready. So from an early game macro perspective it makes it fairly easy to handle AND gives good and consistant results.
Getting the last little bit isn't as important imo. It's more important to not lose due to oversaturation or losing the overview of what's the food supply situation.
what about the efficiency of building a little palisade-fenced meadow where you can keep all of your sheep safe and sound?
Another question: what is better: spending a lot of time to set up and micromanage the mathematically perfect split between villages to get about 6 or 7 more food, or spending your APM on doing something else?
I must say I had a bit of a hard time following why how much food left on each animal matter. If we are talking about a 100% efficient theoretical model - everything is then liner and time shouldn't really have an impact. At its core it comes down to this: gather from the animal that can be removed from the equation the fastest first, then you have the collections rates and the rotting rates that will determine the total food and total gather time. You will get different percentages by changing the initial food but I don't think percentages are very important here. And come to think of it, if you have one sheep with 1 food left and a boar with 1000 food left, the relative differences should be smaller than with an example with say sheep on 10 food and boar on 30, which contradicts what you concluded right? Maybe I'm missing something.
When I mill the deer, I usually do 2-3 vills on each deer. Is that wrong?
Does this change for mayan's though? With longer lasting resources.
I'd say its still better to finish the sheep as mongols, because you overall get more food in the end that way
Well going off the thumbnail you eat the peasants first, the boars are in the king's forests which is his property so it is illegal for anyone but the king to hunt them and the sheep is his consort.
I don’t understand your reasoning. You say that allowing the lower food animal to decay is bad because you end up not getting *any* food from it. But isn’t the higher food animal going to decay for the same amount during that time? (or even faster in the case of boar) Or am I misunderstanding the decay mechanism?
collecting the boar first is faster cause collection rate is faster. But you lost out on total food because you have a sheep and a boar decaying at the same time. For more total food, quickly minimize number of animals decaying at once by removing the sheep as a factor. For collecting food more quickly, go with the one with the higher collection rate, boar. If you go with boar, you will spend a lot of time with two animals decaying at once.
i burst out loud around the 8:10 mark, bravo 🤣
People: there is some schools of thought here.
SOTL: hold My math.