Classic Ford T5 Hydraulic Clutch. Clutch actuation options when installing a T5
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- Опубликовано: 4 май 2022
- A T5 is an excellent transmission for a classic Ford, but the OEM Ford bellhousing configuration of a T5 is different than the OEM bellhousings that 3 and 4 speed transmissions came mated to. This video goes over several options for fitting a T5 in a classic ford and setting up clutch actuation. If you have any questions, even if you are not looking to purchase parts from me, please don't hesitate to contact me through my website as I am happy to help.
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The amount of info and tips you share alone is such a huge contribution to the mustang & cougar community. The kits, parts, and options are just over the top and greatly appreciated. Always buy Daze parts when I can. Thank you
I appreciate that! Its my pleasure as I am happy to help.
I ordered your kit 5 years ago for my BMW with a 302 and then the project sat. Today I'm finally installing it and I look for a how to video and it's your video, haha. You have saved once again.
Glad I could help!!
@@dazecars Is it possible to convert an a4ld to a T5 2.3 liter 1989 mustang with a hydraulic clutch?
is the T5 coming out of an 89 Mustang or going in it? I guess what I am sing is I need ore info year make and model and exactly what you are wanting to do. @@someguyto4675
@@dazecars T5 is going in. converting it from an automatic to manual.
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Another great video...! I'm curranty putting my project together and figuring out what I need , this was a great help, thanks.
Glad it was helpful! If you come up with any questions or trying to figure out how to design your own kit I am just as happy to help people as sell them parts so let me know if anything comes up
Great I found this information, I believe your set up will solve my clutch release situation.
Glad it helped
Thank You for the quick response your product fits very well. I'm happy.
My pleasure! If you have any other questions you can contact me directly through my website.
All roads lead to this channel! 😂 I was just thinking how hard it is to push the clutch on my fox body, I type hydraulic clutch conversion and here you are again!
If it's about machining, DIY shop projects, and classic Fords then yes all roads lead here 😁
Great video man. Answered all my questions. Thank you sir
Glad to help!
@@dazecars Thank you. I'll be getting in touch with you soon to order parts to swap the toploader in my 65 to a t5. Got your website bookmarked!
@@emersontayten Let me know if any other questions pop up
Very informative!
thanks
Mine just went out on my 67’ 289 / t5 and glad to know it’s going to be an easier repair than I originally thought. Mostly cuz my wife thought it was stupid I bought it but she said as long as I don’t need to pump the clutch 10 times before entering a gear, she’s fine with it😂
Having to pump it a bunch of times to get it to work sounds like a bad master cylinder.
Very nice. I'll be talking to you in about 6 months.
glad you like it. Let me know
Great info!
Thanks for watching!
Needed a clutch solution for my 67 Mustang project with 347 stroker matched with T5. After looking at so many kits, independent hydraulic throw out bearings, etc. I think this is the way to go. I will be ordering the full solution soon. Thank you for a great looking product!
My pleasure! Don’t hesitate to reach out if you have any questions.
@@dazecars quick question. For 67 Mustang will I need to make pedal changes?
@@TheRaulr151 no my 67 kit bolts to the pedal in the OEM clutch linkage hole.
I just purchased the kit for a T5 foxbody and these products are solid.
glad you liked it. Let me know if you have any questions durring the install
What kit is it, what part number please, I need the same?
its all on my website
FYI, I have one of the old JMC Motorsports systems that I bought back in 2009, recently the master went bad and the company is Out of Business. So after asking around I finally got an answer for my fix. To repair the 3/4" master I had to use a Harley 3/4" brake master rebuild kit (45400), this was a perfect rebuild kit for my needs and after an upside down bench bleed it was installed and still works to this day. I use an 86 bellhousing with my T5 on my 67.
glad you got it fixed, thanks for the info
Finally perhaps the best video for what I need. All info straight forward . Answered almost all my questions. Thank you . Will be purchasing this week.
1970 mustang 3 speed , 302
It you are upgrading from the 3 speed to the T5 it will work. If your trying to go hydraulic with the 3 speed it will not work.
@@dazecars yes upgrading to T5
Getting a T5 off a 91 mustang . So should I use the bell housing or comes with ?
Any modifications with the pedal?
@@dieselburner4461 you must use a T5 type bellhousing, flywhhel, starter, clutch and pressureplate.
@@dazecars what’s the tooth count for the flywheel? I’m trying to order but I guess there are different ones
@@dieselburner4461 it 157 tooth, but it needs to be for a lat 80s early 90s mustang so the ring gear is in the correct location. An OEM 93 mustang starter will be gear reduction and not very expensive. flywheel also needs to be balanced properly ether 28 oz or 50 oz depending on your motor. Lots of variables in getting the correct flywheel.
I will be calling you!
email me through my website I am happy to help in any way that I can
I didn't see any mention of the hydraulic clutch actuator that is concentric with the input shaft. I have these on both my Small block Ford /T5 hot rods and loved them.
That would be a hydraulic throw out bearing. I didn't mention them because I don't like them. With a slave cylinder you still get a feel for what the clutch is doing through the pedal like you would with mechanical linkage. With a hydraulic throw out bearing you loose that feel. A lot of people use hydraulic throw out bearings and are happy with them but I would not be among them.
Love this video. It is very informative and I would like to give you my business.. do you have kits for Chevy T5? I also have a 62 Galaxie. However I am building a 54 Belair as well
No I do not offer anything for the Chevy T5. My kit would technically bolt up to the transmission, the problem is my kit uses a push type slave because the Ford bellhousing actuates the clutch back to front, but the Chevy T5 bellhousings actuate the clutch front to back.
I was just wondering about something in your video. For example If a person has a 65 Mustang with a 1973 302 engine mated to a toploader 4speed but wanted to swap to a T5 trans then couldn't they just use a T5 bellhousing AND T5 transmission from a 1988 Mustang GT and still keep the factory Z bar setup for the 65 mustang?
Then they would not have to use an adapter plate at all since you would be getting rid of the toploader bellhousing and toploader trans?
no because the clutch fork on a T5 bellhousing works by moving the fork from the back of the car to the front but an old school z-bar setup is designed to work on a fork that goes front to back. They make a clutch fork conversion block but it doesn't work well and results in a stiff pedal.
Daze, My car is a 68 Mustang Hardtop currently with a C4. Do you have an article about the installation of the clutch master cylinder?
I do not. My website is full of articles but not one on the T5 install. All these cars seam to be a little different after 50+ years. The kit comes with basic instructions and then I am available through email for tech support
You get all the air out the opposite way you get all the air out of the cooling system on a ford FE. Drive the front end of the car into a low area. or raise the rear. once the slave cylinder is past level with the bleed screw higher than low part of slave system, it can properly bleed. (FE cooling system requires rear end in ditch, remove radiator cap and bounce front end by jumping on bumper.)
Thanks, that is one of many techniques that may or may not work. I have been selling kits for almost 20 years and I have put together a list of bleeding strategies including the one you recommended. With all the variables of each car there is no one size fits all fix. In theory each one should work every time but in reality people try one and if it doesn't work they try another and so on until they get all the air out.
I'm using one of your hydraulic converting kits on my 1970 mustang, do you know if I need to take the spring of my clutch pedal. I'm talking about the spring on the clutch pedal assembly..
No return springs are required. The pressure plate will force the slave piston back into the slave pushing the master plunger out, returning the pedal to the normal resting position. If you have any other questions don’t hesitate to ask. My instructions are basic and require a certain level of ability on the part of the installer because all these cars are different. No two cars left the factory exactly the same and most cars have been modified heavily in the last 50+ years. Because of that there is no one size fits all set of instructions. With that said I am always willing to help in any way I can.
Do your installation instructions for one of your hydraulic slave cylinder tell how to bleed the system since that is the main complaint being air trapped in the system. I have heard there are some mathematical calculations that need to be done when using a hydraulic throw out bearing but does the external type slave cylinders like those you show in your video require alot of calculations regarding the throw out bearing or can you just bolt up the external slave cylinder along with mastercylinder and lines then just make sure the system is bled free of air? Sorry about all the questions. I am trying to convince myself and rationalize going hydraulic instead of a z bar mechanical style.
They are a pain to bleed and the kit instructions come with basic info but also because all these cars are a little different are only basic and assume the installer has decent mechanical ability. With that said I provide excellent tech support answering install questions including additional info for those that need it on bleeding the system. The only math is in matching the master cylinder to the slave cylinder. You want the bore of the master to be smaller than the bore of the slave to reduce pedal effort BUT if the master cylinder bore is smaller you must have enough master cylinder stroke to have adequate fluid volume to provide the required stroke to actuate the clutch. I have done the math and the master cylinders I sell meet both requirements for the clutch kits I sell. If you want to use your own master I would need to know its bore and stroke. At that point I could do the math and see if it would work with either of the slave cylinders I offer. I am happy to answer your questions here but it might be easier if you contacted me through my website so we can correspond via email.
I’m looking into swapping a 3550 or a tko into my f100 with a 302 in it I was wondering if you had any input on installation for a ford pickup and if maybe you could comment the link to the website so I can purchase the adapter rod
I sell brackets for the 3550/TKO. lots of people have used my kits for f100s. Yo0u need to use a TKO specific bellhousing. not sure what "adapter rod" you are asking about.
I have 66 Mustang with factory disc brakes with the large Master cylinder. What clutch master and slave cylinder set up would you suggest with a 93 T5 bellhousing and transmission. We will be switching from an Automatic to a manual and have the parts to switch the pedals.
does it have power brakes? if not my 65-66 kit, master cylinder, and line kit should be all you will need.
Hi I have a tremec 3650 on a 351 Windsor the clutch is a dual disc setup will this engage the pressure on the twin disc
Does a cable work? My kit is designed to replace the OEM type cable. I have not worked with a twin disc setup. So I can not say for sure put we could figure t out if you get under the car, make sure the throw out bearing is up against the pressure plate, and mark the position of the fork on the bell. Then you can use a threaded rod or clamp to pull the clutch fork forward until the output shaft of the transmission spins freely. Mark the fork location on the bell and measure between your two marks. If it is 1” or less my kit should work. More than 1” it may still work with a bigger master BUT it will increase pedal effort.
Will this also work with a 200 i6 with the modern driveline adapter between the trans and bellhousing?
I am sure it can be made to work but I can not see a reason to do so. A T5 is IMHO a far better choice to go behind a 200 i6. It will be lighter, less expensive, slightly smaller and the i6 does not have nearly the torque to hurt the T5.
You make a bracket for the TKX transmission. Need it for a big boy engine in a F100
I sure do
What a great video! I'm working on my project which is a 1953 Ford Mainline. I decide to put in a Ford 300 inline 6 and mach it up to a T5. I love the idea to have a hydraulic clutch in it. So i have a couple of questions for you.
1- what T5 would you go with?
2- What master cylinder and slave cylinder would you recommend?
First question is the easier of the two. For best results you want a V8 T5, preferably from the early 90s. It will be more robust than the late 80s T5s. There are several things you can add to a T5 like a billet counter gear stabilizer and one piece steel input bearing retainer to increase the strength of the T5. As to what master and slave I first need to know how much stroke is required at the clutch fork for your setup. From there we can work backwards and try to determine the best master slave combo for your application.
@dazecars thank you for getting back to me. I will let you know stroke asap
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I adapted the original clutch arm to the t5 bell housing
that is an option. For a while a kit was being made to do just that but I do know the result was a stiffer pedal compared to other options.
@@dazecars mine was in a early Econoline, want stiff may the leverage was different
@@dazecars also I did eventually convert to a cable, I had the 2000 mustang v6 t5 with a5.0 The clutch arm was the lowest point under the van with the v6 bell housing, and vulnerable,. The cable had almost no residence, but in the van, not a lot, both worked fine until the original arm got damaged from hitting a tree root. A internal hydropic would be best in my case. The v6 bell is an inch longer then the 8cly allowing the trans to miss a crossmember for the Cable shifter, all good except for the ground clearance
@@caseyjones1983 this is just personal preference as it is a totally viable option that lots of people run, but I hate hydraulic throw out bearings. they are a pain to properly setup, prone to leaks, and they remove all clutch feel. I like how a z-bar, cable clutch, or slave cylinder setup allow you to feel what the clutch is doing as you push the pedal. That feeling is lost with a throwout bearing, but it does sound like it would be the best option for your application.
@@dazecars agreed, that's why I went with the cable clutch in the end, your hydrologic could be a good alt as well as it would be tighter to the trans as well, but the Cable is working great, kind of feels to light though.
Do you have complete kit for 69 mustang it have power brakes 351w and t5 i need master and slave cilinder and hoses thanks
I offer all a cart kits. All the parts you mentioned but I let the customer mix and match which pieces work best for their application.
Hi, I have an 1966 Ford mustang 6 cyl 3 speed so how do I can install a slave cylinder cuz old system is stretch fork not push as all hydraulic slave do
There is not an easy option. You would need to figure out how to mount the slave in front of the clutch fork so it could push towards the back of the car.
Do I understand correctly that the rod with the sperical ball goes in the hole closest to the transmission and not the outter hole with the dimple
That is correct. The inner hole fits the spherical ball better and by moving it 1" closer to the pivot .1" less of stroke is required to actuate the clutch. One could design a bracket to use the original cable hole if they wanted to but that is not how I designed mine. I wanted to slightly reduce clutch fork stroke and tuck the slave cylinder in to the transmission as close as I could.
I'm guessing that if you're doing this off a hoist the most simple way to purge air from the slave cylinder would be to jack the rear end up while bleeding, to offset the downward tilt of the transmission?
thats an option, gravity bleed, power bleed, bench bleed and a whole assortment of other options can be used with varying success. 20 years of selling these and I have yet to find a one size fits all solution.
So I'm confused, I have the Z-bar and I hate it, the clutch engagement is at the very top almost dangerous to drive. So waht do I need to buy to switch the direction of the fork?
What bellhousing are you using?
I have a 1968 Mustang fastback and just purchased a new Tremec TKX. Is there anyway that I can run a mechanical clutch linkage and if so what parts would I need like bellhousing, zbar,etc....If I am unable to use a mechanical linkage then I would like to use a cable clutch or hydraulic but I really dont feel comfortable installing a hydraulic system as it seems complicated. Any info would be helpful. I am starting from square one so i dont have any clutch system parts yet of any kind.
There are a couple ways that I know of to run the OEM mechanical linkage. One is expensive and the other is not recommended in my opinion. The first is to use a quicktime 3550/TKO bellhousing (will also fit the TKX) Those bellhousings are engineered to use two different clutch forks. One is actuated back to front allowing you to run a cable clutch or hydraulic clutch and the other is actuated front to back allowing you you use the stock linkage. That bellhousing is in the $900 range plus or minus depending on accessories needed and shipping. I don't know what else is required to use that bellhousing. Flywheel clutch and starter may or may not need to be changed as well. A quicktime bellhousing is a very effective way to maintain the mechanical linkage but expensive. The second option would be to run an OEM ford 4 speed bell and TKO adapter plate. This is a lot less expensive $200 range plus or minus. The problem is modern transmission require the bellhousing accuracy ≤ .005" and old school Ford bellhousings had tolerance of up to .030". If you run an adapter you MUST use a dial indicator to properly align the bellhousing and engine to the transmission by shimming the bell and using adjustable alignment pins. It is a pain to get set up. When I first installed a T5 in my mustang I used an adapter and it was by no means a "clean" install. When I upgraded to a T5 specific bell I was much happier with it. Same is true of the TKO and TKX. So while the adapter plate option can be made to work and even work well I would not run it on my cars when there are easier options.
@@dazecars I wonder if Lakewood sells a bellhousing that would work. I really appreciate your response! Your videos are really informative and got me thinking about a hydraulic clutch but the fear of it leaking or doing something else i would worry about as I tend to drive my cars long distances and mechanical would be worry free it seems.
@@VegasRT500 A hydraulic clutch is as reliable as brake hydraulics. Lots of cars and trucks have come from the factory over the years with a hydraulic clutch. Lakewood does sell a bellhousing but it does require modification to work with my kits. The problem is the Lakewood bell is wider at the transmission end so it needs to be notched for the pushrod.
Does the gforce bracket you sell get a tkx?
The gforce bracket is for a T5 and will not work on a TKX but I sell a TKX specific bracket. The mounting holes are in a different location between the two transmissions.
Couldnt you just use a factory style Z bar setup that is already in a classic mustang and use the T5 bellhousing and T5 Transmission. Then adapter plate is not needed?
no because the clutch fork on a T5 bellhousing works by moving the fork from the back of the car to the front but an old school z-bar setup is designed to work on a fork that goes front to back. They make a clutch fork conversion block but it doesn't work well and results in a stiff pedal.
Hi, Day. Have you ever tried the master cylinder/ReinforcementPlate/Offset Pushrod you offer with a hydraulic ThrowOut? Any idea if that would work?
I have not tried it but there is no reason I can think of that it would not work as long as the master cylinder would except the 3/8" bolt of the offset pushrod and had the same bolt pattern as my reinforcement bracket.
From looking at the Tilton 6000 series T5 T/O bearing specs, it looks like they'd recommend the wilwood 260-5920 MC, which I believe is similar (if not the same) to what you sell already.
Now I have to decide if it's worth the extra to have hydraulic T/O or, just go with your whole Slave Cylinder kit.
Thanks!
@@CheesySteve That is the exact same MC I sell with my kits. The retailing washer in the master needs to be removed and drilled out to 7/16" to accommodate the 3/8" pushrod. I personally don't like hydraulic throwout bearings, they can be a pain to service and more than that I don't like the way they feel. With a slave cylinder you can still feel through the pedal what the clutch is doing just as you can with a z-bar or cable. With the hydraulic throw out bearing that feeling is gone. A hydraulic throw out bearing can be made to work very well, I just prefer the slave type.
@@dazecars i appreciate the feedback. At least I know the options. I have a little time left before I pull the auto out so. Thanks again and I hope we can do business soon!
@@CheesySteve If any other questions come up (even if it means not buying anything from me) don't hesitate to reach out. I am a car guy first and happy to help.
How can I get ahold of you with questions on a current build of mine?
Email me through my website
I have a 289 SB I want to change out my 4 speed top loader to a T5 need help my car is a 67 Fairlane
as long as you are using a T5 specific bellhousing my universal kit will work at the transmission. As far as hooking up the master cylinder I don't know how similar or different the Mustang is from the fairlane. So my offset pushrod may or may not work. I guess what I am saying is some fabrication/problem solving may be needed for the master cylinder install. If you contact me through my website I can answer any further questions and try to help you figure out how to make it all work.
I have world class t5 out of a pontiac GTA trans am. Its been sufficient for a carbed 355 small block chevy in a pontiac trans am
I also have a slave cylinder setup it works well... I've gone through a few slave cylinders in 10 yrs.
It's a good 5-speed
Thinking about the bleeding problem, how about bleeding before it's bolted down that way you can get all the air out?
Sadly it doesn't seam to be that simple, man do I wish it was. I have spent more time helping people work on getting all the air out than any other tech support activity I do. Some people have good luck jacking up the rear of the car, some loosen and angle the slave as you suggested, some assemble the hydraulics on the bench and bench bleed, some gravity bleed and some power bleed. The result is always the same, it takes forever but eventually they manage to get all the air out. The only saving grace is hydraulics are absolute so you can know for sure of all the air is out by measuring slave stroke. If you are not getting the stroke that the fluid volumes of the master and slave say you should get than air in the system is the issue.
@@dazecars My kit just came in the mail, I have a Phoenix Systems Reverse Brake & Clutch Bleeder. Works great on my brakes forcing the fluid up to the master cylinder. I can do my brakes by myself, with no pedal pumping and have a very firm brake pedal. Hopefully I have the same luck with the slave, I'll let you know.
@@deuceraptor Reverse bleeding is extremely effective, also if you angle the slave and then reverse bleed you will probably be good to go.
@@dazecars I recently watched a RUclips video on clutch bleeding. He unbolted the slave and used a c clamp to keep push rod from moving. Then he bleed the clutch in no time and got all air out. By isolating the pushrod like that it now bleeds just like brakes bleed.
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I ordered one of the MDL hydraulic conversions for my 66 mustang and it’s slave cylinder mount requires you to drill holes in the bell housing. I didn’t like the so I just ordered your mount it’s a way better design.
Glad you liked it. Do you have it installed yet? let me know if you have any questions.
@@dazecars not yet I just ordered it on Friday
@@slowguy66 I did not receive any orders on Friday. Are you sure you ordered it from me? You could email me an order number. Just wanting to make sure that there is not a problem.
It was rose hill performance parts. I thought was you because it looked like the same part
@@slowguy66 he sells my product, you good to go. Because I wasn’t seeing it I wanted to make sure I had not overlooked your order.
Will this slave work on a 2000 ranger clutch master? I did a v8 conversion
Where can I get that bracket?
I have sold a lot of these kits to ranger owners. I would need to know the bore and stroke of your master to determine the correct slave cylinder. I have the parts available on my website and you can also email through my website.
@@dazecars I'll find out and let you know..thanks!!
@@dazecars so I do know the stock unit had 1 1/2 inches of travle..meaning the plunger will go in 1 1/2 inches. I think the bore is 5/8...
@@dazecars how much movement does this move that clutch fork?
@@19jody72 Assuming the 1.5" stroke is actual master stroke, if I sell you one of my kets and sub a 3/4" master for the 7/8 I usually sell you will get 1" at the slave. the way my kit is designed you only need .9" of travel so that should be perfect and make for a nice easy pedal. If it is easier you can contact me through my website.
I have a question about a different car I have a vw mk I'd like to use a hydraulic clutch
what is your question?
My vw has an 020 grearbox that uses cable now I'd like to now is there anyway that I can have a hydraulic clutch
@@uthandosikade2337 to design a kit you first need to see if there is a place to mount a push type slave. Then check if there is room to mount a master cylinder and connect it to the pedal. From there you need to measure how much stroke is required at the clutch fork to work the clutch. With all this information you can select parts and begin fabricating brackets to convert to a hydraulic clutch.
What bore is master and slave ?
slave is 7/8 the master is 13/16" but its not just about bore it is also about stroke. Correctly matching a master and slave starts with knowing the desired stroke at the slave than calculating the the required stroke at the master (based on both bore sizes) to achieve what you need at the slave keeping in mind that a smaller bore master will have reduced pedal effort and better pedal feel.
Where do I go to order this?
my web site is www.dazecars.com I am currently out of my basic T5 bracket but should have some soon.
I have a 85 302 with t5 does it matter what selection I put???
Also the tab is broken
What year is the transmission and the broken tab is it the transmission to bellhousing mounting tab or one of the tabs sticking out the side of the main case?
@@dazecars I ended buying the bellhousing adapter and it’s fine but now my connection to the slave cylinder don’t match
@@FernandoRodriguez-mz7tv Did you buy one of my kits? If so please email me if not I’m not sure what your question is as I specifically warn against getting the adapter plate in the video.
longtube header clearance?
In most cases not even an issue. The collector tubes usually go strait back after the bellhousing (or slightly angled towards the transmission. The slave and bracket are tight up against transmission similar to shifter linkage on a 4-speed
great to know. is this a t5 only design or can it work with the tko and the new tkx?
@@angry408w7 only works for the t5 BUT I have kits for the tko and tkx
T5 with clutch cable is for the manly driver. Build up the muscle in the left leg and calf. LOL
especially if that cable gets to close to headers 😂
i have a 1970 mustang and it has an fmx trans what pedal parts do i need to work with your parts
My Mustang kits are specifically designed to work with OEM clutch pedals. My offset pushrod is the same for all years except the 67 and up kits come with a longer mounting bolt and extra spacers because the OEM clutch linkage hole is more outboard from the column. With that in mind any OEM style clutch pedal 64-70 should work with my kit HOWEVER I have no idea what if any modifications would need to be done to it to make an earlier pedal work in your car.
cool thank you im starting to gather up parts now for this winters project and want to get rid of the fmx auto and put in a 5 speed that and a mustang 2 suspension convertion@@dazecars
@@poppacapinya let me know if I can be of any further assistance. May I ask why Mustang II?
my car has drum brakes on the front and a disc kit is 1400 plus i need shock towers {mine are cracked and were "repaired" years ago} plus my coils are worn out .a mustang2 kit comes with disc brakes and a power rack new springs and stuff for same or less cost and will handle and ride better. not to mention more engine bay room @@dazecars
@@poppacapinya those all sound like good reasons. A Mustang II suspension will perform well but IMHO is inferior to the original mustang suspension design with a retrofit coil over kit that goes all the way to the lower control arm. (see my video on the subject) you’ll get better ride quality better handling and it’s all around a far superior suspension. Mustang II also has a slightly reduced turning radius. With that said, mustang, II is the perfect choice if you need to illuminate the shock towers. If you plan on putting a bigger motor in the future, then mustang II is the only way to go, but if you’re just after “a little more room“ and could still work around the shock towers, you will have far better handling if you leave the shock towers and go with a coil over kit. Just my $.02