In Gordon Lightfoot's defense he wrote the song pretty soon after the wreck from a short article in Newsweek. So it wouldn't be forgotten. Like every other Great Lakes tragedy. It's not forgotten. Safety may have improved a little , but awareness to the perils increased. Interest in the Great Lakes wrecks. But he did keep in touch with the families and created a scholarship fund for maritime families.
I agree totally. And also in writing a song sometimes certain words do not fit, so I don't have a problem with that. He done a great thing and wrote a wonderful song that I think will keep these 29 men and their families to be never forgotten. I think if I remember correctly I saw a documentary and heard the song for the first time at the end of it but how many people have heard the song and it made them want to dig into the subject. I know I would have had I only heard it first.
@@dansweet6793A great song written by a GREAT MUSICIAN. Gordon Lightfoot and Warren Zevon are the closest the Modern Age had to the Medieval Troubadours: they wrote songs which told stories.
Thank you I’m so fascinated by all the great ship that sailed on these Great Lakes, really enjoy every video I can find. It’s so heartbreaking to me. Men and ships lost to those Great Lakes.
The ego of the presenter is on display throughout the speech, yukking it up a bit especially at the beginning for some ego-boosting courtesy laughs from the assembled audience. It's almost like a comic trying to make this tragedy funny.
I worked at Republic Steel in Cleveland & unloaded the "Fitz" several times.. including the summer of 1975.. It was a site seeing her come down the Cuyahoga aided by two tugs.. she was regal compared to the Cleveland Cliffs boats.. btw I unloaded the Anderson too... I operated the "hi-lift".. a Caterpillar 920 front end loader.. a rubber tire tractor.. it took over 8 hours of digging by the huletts to drop the hi-lift in.. it was necessary to use the hi-lift to gather up the taconite after most of the cargo had been unloaded.. the huletts were so powerful they could puncture the side tanks and hold bottom if they scratched around too much. At the signaled time I would park the hi-lift under the hulett and wire cables attached to the hi-lift would be hooked to the hulett.. i'd make my way up the ladder and down into the hold.. the aim being to push the taconite into more manageable piles for the hulett operator.. fyi if the boat wasn''t ready for the loader I was welcomed to sit in the galley and drink coffee and eat to my hearts content.. I've watched several of your presentations and really enjoyed them... I have to say though I question your statement about the bulkheads on the Fitz... I operated against those bulkhead and don't remember them being screen.. I do recall ports on the bottom of the bulk heads to allow water to drain from compartment to compartment.. not that the Fitz did but some of the boats.. primarily the Canadian lines, also shipped grain.. if we had a load of taconite and grain was going to be hauled next, the hands were assembled in the hold.. fire hoses sprayed the beam structure above.. and the boat was literally swept with metal brooms.. then washed.. hence the need for the bulk head ports.. ... tmi I know.. I'll leave it at that.. keep up the informative work and RIP to the Crew
PS.. The Anderson was sold a few times post 1975.. out of respect to those brave sailors, despite the sale, her name remaines the Arthur M Anderson.. as of this note 5/25/2023 she is underway on Superior!!
Jeff Thomas is BY FAR my favourite Great Lakes Storyteller. That having been said, I wish he weren't as dismissive of Gordon Lightfoot and that incredible song as he is. Yes...I realise he is in part joking...but I was so lucky to see Gord in concert...and we were in the front row. He came back for an encore..and he introduced his bandmembers, named his technicians-:"THESE are the talented folks who make ME LOOK GOOD" And he thanked the Security Guys...something rockstars NEVER do.But what made it for ME, he knelt down and shook hands with as many as he could reach--I'm 4'10. I was 99 lbs at the time-and a big guy elbowed me and my BFF out of the way. Gordon kinda fist-bumped him and said, " You need to be nice. Dont shove these little ladies who waited their turn" When he shook our hands, he folded our hand BETWEEN BOTH HIS and said, "Thanks for coming, ladies" and when I looked in my palm, there was his guitar pick with his name on it. I nearly cried. That concert was my reward for going into remission from spinal cancer. Sorry for the long tale..but nobody mentions the scholarship fund he used the $$ from that song to set up. Just snide remarks about getting the story wrong and I resent it. The Fitz WOULDNT be the Legend, the Tourist draw it is without the song he was bitched at for "getting it wrong" to the point he CHANGED THE LYRICS. And now he's gone. BLESSED PEACE, GORD .🕊🍁🍁🍁🕊🕊🕊🍁🍁🍁
@@katharper655Thank you for your wonderful story, and I’m sure that Capt. McSorley and his 28 shipmates are more than honored and glad to have Gordon with THEM now
@@michiganman9599 A marvelous point...and a warm and reassuring thought: a NEW VALHALLA full of the kind of Heroes so often overlooked..of quiet courage.
I heard on another video that Mr Lightfoot donated the royalties to this song to the families of those who perished. I also saw in that samefilm that upon Mr Lightfoot's passing away, that they rang the bell at the old church house cathedral 29 times for each sailor and one time for Mr Lightfoot. 30 rings! What an honorable thing.......❤
Too bad there is a child disrupting the speaker’s presentation throughout the entire duration. How selfish of the parent not to exit and allow the attendees and all future listeners to enjoy this presentation. Had to exit and find another presentation/documentary that was more professional without distraction.
These people occasionally find something funny enough to actually laugh out loud as the storyteller is talking. I doubt a child's disruption mattered much to them.
I think, you should, so please do. But make sure your complaint is directed at the rude parent(s), not the child who is just being normal. I am surprised no one told the parent(s), out!
@@yvonneollivier7088Yeah...no kiddin! I understand REALLY wanting to attend a lecture like this one. Jeff is my favourite speaker--even over Ric Mixter, who STARTED his lecturing career with The Fitzgerald. Mixter built his career on lectures..now charges for HIS talks, and always drags his MERCH to his talks. Jeff just comes and talks..and does a SUPER job. But the parents of that VERY HAPPY KID need their rude fannies kicked!!
I have to disagree with your comment at 55:39. The Legend DOES live on because of Gordon Lightfoot's song. If not for that song, millions of people would have no knowledge whatsoever of the Edmund Fitzgerald. I was very young when this occurred and the only reason I knew about was from his song. Likewise with millions of other people who continue to hear him sing it. And Gordon Lightfoot personalized it.
So the other shipwrecks mean nothing because someone didn't write a song about them? Sounds more like an exploited shipwreck for profit. Only because of the more modern times with radio and TV, it was made into a bigger deal than other shipwrecks where mothers, father, brothers sisters etc, lost people they love. Hence why the sarcasm over the song. Not saying it wasn't a good song or meaningful. Just saying passed lost crews were just as important.
36:23 I see a sharp v shape punch in the mud in between the bow and stern indicating a nosedive to the bottom and bulldozing a circular path with the bow being dragged backwards while the stern still vertical out of the water at a 40-60 degree bent and still floating above the surface and almost like a full circle bull dozed pivot; the bow on the lake bottom pivoting and stern is severely wrenched and twisted side to side on the surface and shredded in the middle like cheese and twisted over in the massive waves and end sinks upside down with the ballast tanks full of water on one side/ settled cargo? Also, the stern as it broke free from the bow was quite up right bulldozed a reverse curve path behind the bow pivot path as the stern settled into its final position with the 3 upsides down hatch covers ripped away in straight 45-degree stern bulldozed curve path? I am not an expert, but the illustration is prevalent. Does not matter who is right or wrong, money is number one over possible life loss with no common sense.
IT WAS A *SONG* Are you aware that he wrote the song on the fly.. incorporating the info in NEWSWEEK.? Which he probably felt he could trust. A NUMBER 1 song on the Billboard Hot 100....which has become a Classic. He was nagged and harassed until he did something singer-songwriters never do: HE CHANGED HIS LYRICS. Sad.. since I'm betting that, WITHOUT Gord's song, the Fitzgerald Families wouldn't have had the leverage they did to raise the bell. Those trips down that deep COST. The Newt Suit and operator would have cost a fortune. THANK GOODNESS they had the means to honour THEIR lost loved 0nes. In large part due to "THAT SONG"
Only in the interest of correct facts I must say that the song only reached #2 on the chart. In my opinion it should have been #1 but there we are. I know it’s nitpicking but I can’t help it…. My understanding was that he only changed the lyric about the hatches in some live performances because he wanted to show respect to the family members who felt like it implied that the crew hadn’t properly done their job as far as fastening them. There is still some controversy about the hatches and there are still people who believe that it was crew error that caused the loss of the ship so I can understand the families feeling a little defensive. The whole thing is tragic and thank God that Mr. Lightfoot wrote his beautiful song that continues to draw interest in this story over 40 years later. God bless him! “Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?” Nobody will ever match that lyric!!
am i a jerk bc i find the child annoying? asking honestly. If i was there I would be annoyed that this person brought their child - that they didn't seem to have the courtesy (common maybe?) to not bring a child who obviously can't keep quiet in a setting like this for this long. It just feels incredibly selfish, rude, disrespectful and ridiculous and I don't understand a decision to do something like this. edit: 20 minutes in. Am i crazy? I might be crazy - this would drive me crazy.
No, I had the same experience when I saw the new Beauty and the beast with my niece someone brought thier 7 month old baby into the theater, I just shook my head. I have a high tolerance for kids even though they can be painfully annoying. But a six month old in a loud theater with a grumpy Beast on the screen won't go over well.
I normally don't access Wikipedia articles, but I was searching for Captain Dudley J. Paquette, the name of the last living captain of a boat that also sailed in that storm to be interviewed, and that resulted in a book. That book, The Night the Fitz Went Down, is by Hugh E. Bishop, who consulted with Captain Paquette. It took a while to find that...I had this interesting book years ago, but gave it to someone. Back to Wikipedia, which presents the theory, along with other hypotheses in the body of a very detailed article, that it was structural stress that doomed the Fitz. That she was not in condition to sail could be a reason for the Coast Guard, which approved greater loads and was also responsible for inspection, and I believe safety certification, to prefer that mystery remain. This is the theory that Captain Paquette considered fit the facts. The Wikipedia articles covers this theory briefly, but adequately, under the header: Structural failure hypothesis. One should read through to this: "The stress fracture hypothesis was supported by the testimony of former crewman." And then read that section! One crewman who signed a deposition, George Burgner, was NOT asked to testify by the Marine Board of Inquiry. He had worked on the Fitzgerald for 10 seasons. The seeming premature scrapping of the Homer may well be speculated as to have been ordered because that boat had similar defects. The families, IMO, have no right to object to forensic examination of that boat. If anything can be learned as to a contributing cause of her demise, it should be examined. If a relative of my own had been on her, I would want that investigation. It cannot be honestly blamed only on weather if the boat was not structurally sound.
Respectfully... someone needs to go down and bring up the logbook... (if it hasnt been taken already?) btw each of the EF crews families were paid a settlement of $600 for the lives of each crewman. Unbelievable that a paltry $600 is the value of each hardworking mariner on the EF!
It hasn’t been and I think they’re working under the assumption that the corpses of the bridge crew are all down the rear stairwell along with assorted charts and documents including the log book and don’t want to disturb it. Though I completely agree with you in that it really needs to be retrieved though hard to say if there’s any notes in there once trouble started. I also believe the victims families sued and were awarded an undisclosed settlement later on in the 70s though I’m not certain, $600 is disgraceful. It sounds honestly like something you would hear in a third world maritime disaster
I really enjoy Jeff's presentations, I find the subject very interesting and he does a very good job with his research and how he tells his stories. I look forward to seeing his next installments if he has more.
It’s strange to me this is the only ship that’s not allowed to be dove on. If I was a family member I would want to know what happened so maybe it wouldn’t happen to somebody else’s loved ones Personally I think those ships were built too long for lakes and the storms they have there. Being so long looks to me like it would make them easier to break in the middle
If the Fitz nose dived and hit the bottom in one piece; dont you think taconite pellets would have slid forward and would be scattered all over the front of the ship? She dumped her cargo before hitting bottom. The hull finally gave up from the hogging and sagging with all that water inside it. She only had 3 bulk heads, unlike every other ship with 5. The Fitz was fragile and a ticking time bomb.
Sorry bucko but Gordon Lightfoot did not get most of the story wrong. He got it mostly right and some wrong. But if that's how you're analyzing the song then you're forgetting it's a song, not an essay. And that song has done more to promote and memorialize the story of the Fitzgerald and its crew than this speaker ever has or ever will.
I keep hearing that Gordon Lightfoot got it so wrong, however if it wasn’t for that song I would never know about Great Lakes Shipping no would I care. I have lived in the southwestern desert all of my life, so I knew nothing until I heard the song and started investigating it on my own and found a whole new world. So I thank Mr. Lightfoot.
They had to be innocent "wrongs". They only found out truths of this wreck decades later. I think he did a great job. A lot of heart there, and such a great artist.......
It was but the company was worried that the Homer had the flaws of the Fitz as it's the same same design...but so was the William Clay Ford and she sailed for a long time with no major problems and assisted in the search for the Fitz.
The Homer never seen the water again after the Fitz went down. Doesn't that tell you something about it's construction???? Sister ship of the Fitzgerald
The Herbert C Jackson is hull 302 from Great Lakes Engineering Works and still sails. Fitzgerald was 301, the Arthur B Homer hull 303. I would assume the Herbert C Jackson is a near sister ship to the Fitzgerald and visually appears so. She is, I assume, the closest link to the Fitzgerald we have left.
Herbert c. Jackson was a 690 footer with a 6000 hp power plant. Not close to a sister ship. She may have used similar construction methods though. I’ll give you that much.
It sickens me when I hear some of these presenters scrutinize Gordon Lightfoot's ballad over irrelevant places and things, Mr. Lightfoot was a man of integrity and compassion. What was known at the time of the songs release was vague conjecture. Cleveland or Detroit, what does it matter....."a main hatchway caved in".....is an indication of the severity of the storm, 'not as' incompetence by the crew. It was written to create a visual interpretation of the events that were being endured. The ballad of 'Big Bad John' is a perfect comparison. His ballad was written as a memorial to the ship and crew, not as a scientific analysis. Mr. Lightfoot personally continued to stay in touch with family members of the crew, attended memorials and donated financially to all related to the crew members.
I posted a reply to this comment in another area but I wanted to repeat that I absolutely agree with you. My understanding though, is that the reason the hatchway lyric was an issue was because some of the families took it as meaning that the hatches weren’t properly fastened and that implied that the crew didn’t properly do their job. I can’t vouch for whether that’s true or not but I read that Mr. Lightfoot, out of respect for the families, actually changed those lyrics in some live performances. Either way, I can definitely say that my interest in “Big Fitz” stems directly from the song.
Yes, he did@@myroselle6987 The thing is is that a hatchway caving doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of care by the crew. I just find it hard to believe that a seasoned Captain with the knowledge of the upcoming weather conditions wouldn't have taken the proper procedures to insure a buttoned-up ship. Their course was even altered to compensate for the predicted weather conditions.
Im in the process of writing a short fictional novel about the "old cook" on the Edmund Fitzgerald. It will be a bit annoying to be "called out" by people nitpicking the facts and figures of the ship etc. Its fiction! Its meant to paint a picture, and make you imagine what the cook's experience on the ship was.
Looking at another video that’s come out in the last couple of weeks which contains testimony of a hullett operator who was at the last unloading before her final trip. On that occasion the hullett bit a 20ft chunk of plating out of the bottom of the hold which is also the tank top of the ballast tank. The dock supervisor offered to weld it back in place for McSorley but it would take about 4 hours. McSorley said no I gotta go, and he did with the plate placed back but unsecured meaning there was no watertight integrity between that ballast tank and the hold, it would be held down by the loaded taconite with the Fitzgerald due for dry docking at the end of the trip to be lengthened when presumably this defect would’ve been rectified as part of that work.
I'll tell you my theory on why the Fitzgerald went to the bottom. Poor maintenance. Fence rail down mens that boat was hogging. It almost certainly had to have hit bottom. Blown vents means that air was escaping the cargo hold. Which means huge amounts of water are pouring in. A big wave hit her hard. You can tell because the deck house is smashed in front. No radar ti guide her. Too close to the shore at six fathom shoal.
This is a great presentation. I really enjoyed your detail, and sense of humor. The child adding extra commentary was an unusual addition I also enjoyed Gordon's song, but I was 13 when it came out so I think that's pretty understandable.
You get a "clean break" on cold, brittle steel, created using the bessimer process that left high sulfur content. Modern steel, like that used on the Fitz, would likely bend and shred. I think she was compromised and came apart on top, but didn't separate completely until hitting bottom.
I have never understood parents. babysitters, etc. who, rather than miss a specific event, drag the kid(s) along, to the COMPLETE JOY of those whose lives are tragically child-FREE. (Please note the intended sarcasm.) I HAVE seen and heard worse-behaved kids than this one in gatherings..BUT STILL...c'mon, folks!
The structure between the first hatch and the wheel house that is smashed; has anyone considered maybe a giant wave hit the middle of the ship, broke it in half, made her do a cartwheel, causing the stern section to hit and smash that structure before she sank? That could explain a little.
While I thoroughly enjoyed this presentation, the conversation about the NTSB is not 100% accurate. They investigate mostly aviation, however they also do shipping whether it be ships, trains even 18 wheeler accidents. I'm sure there is more. Originally they were just for aviation. Later on they developed into investigation into other accidents and mishaps.
Gordon's song mentions the hatch giving way, and possible expressions of a crew in chaos- hardly "wrong" considering numerous unproven theories based on actual evidence.
It's likely the reason the center section is collapsed "missing " is because it was weakened ......damaged from scraping bottom earlier in the day. Depending on how big the leak was, would determine how long it could stay afloat. She just slowly filled up with water and that big wave sent it to the bottom. Not straight up and down to where the stern was 200' feet out of the water like told here, but more of an angle. When the bow hit the bottom the damaged section crumpled. FWIW
I've gotten tired of listening to the 1905 and 1913 videos which I've listened to at least three times. Your UFO remark has a little different kind of a shine on it these days though huh? Thank you for the constant effort on the stories of the lakes
I'm glad you did this story because the story of the Fitzgerald never gets old, I'm always asking why there are multiple movies about the Titanic but not one about the Edmund Fitzgerald. It pisses me off to no end. Fun fact my hairdresser grew up with Deckhand Bruce Hudson. I had the pleasure of seeing the Anderson as a kid in 2001 when it passed our ferry boat.
Probably because the Titanic took 2 hours and 40 minutes to sink - plenty of time for so many stories of heroism, stoicism, drama, and even cowardice to play out, and plenty of survivors to tell various stories of what happened. The Edmund Fitzgerald essentially sunk 'instantly' with NO survivors, so there's not much of a 'story' to play out. You could tell the story of the storm, but we all know how it ends, SUDDENLY, WHAM! into the bottom of Lake Superior. You could tell the back stories of the crew, but it would be unsatisfying to the movie going audience; i.e.- no little kids get to hug their Daddy again after he's plucked from the cold unforgiving waters . . . . The Edmund Fitzgerald story just seems to be better suited to documentaries than to movies. Just my opinion.
That was fascinating. My favourite part though was the infant putting their input into this great maritime mystery. I like how you say “I don’t know” when you don’t. A lot of folk try to bullshit their way out of these situations which as an engineer I find infuriating. I’d rather someone tell me the truth and then I can appreciate we have a “known unknown” to deal with rather than someone just making stuff up and hoping for the best. When you know a piece of the jigsaw is missing we can all put our heads together and figure out a solution, rather than going down a blind alley based on a guess or conjecture. Chapeau to you sir!
Heard an interview and Lightfoot was annoyed that the wreck got so little attention and one article that was written didn't even correctly spell the name of the ship. To Lightfoot that was insult to injury.
The more I listen to the evidence, the more I think a couple of the theories played out. The boat began to break up. Captain knew it was going down. Propped the door open for a fast escape. Got caught by the 3 sisters that passed the Anderson, they hit the Fitz and caused it to dive. Hit the bottom and the already broken hull shattered from impact. That could explain why there was no ore in front of the cargo. It already partially spilled out while she was on top. Something with its different bulkhead design kept it attached on top and allowed it to dive. Captain never got a distress call out because, like the Morrel, she lost power from breaking on top. That's my theory anyway.
I enjoy your finding the synchronicity of the Fitzgerald, William Clay Ford, and the Arthur M. Anderson based on the Fitzgerald's maiden voyage and it's demise. I also enjoy this information.
The Blough and Clarke was involved with the search as well...many salties refused to help and they was just miles from the Fitz last know position..that's sad isn't it.
I spent 2 years of my life on tankers at sea and I would say a following sea is always desirable. There's actually an expression that wishes you following seas. When your pushing against the seas it's a far more difficult crossing. When you see video of ships diving into a wave they are going against the sea.
It’s unfortunate that what could of been one of the best lectures on the Fitzgerald sinking/event was ruined for its entire length by someone not shutting off the spectators mic and so we got to listen to noise and talk of others “including the child doing what children do”!! Poor planning or ignorance?
Hatch covers weren't dogged They had knocked a 20-ft hole in the bottom of the boat and it's last unload didn't welded up just throw the plate down and put on the taconite. Then got too close to six fathom shoals stabbed in the bottom of the boat from that minute on story was over. They found the Chadburn at the bottom of the lake of the Edmund Fitzgerald and its wide open full throttle
Kamloops is almost 300 feet less deep than Fitzgerald, you have to be a very qualified technical diver with either a hard suit like a Newtsuit (if they’re even used anymore it was used in 1995 to remove the ships bell) or something similar along with a lot of exotic gas mixtures to deal with that kind of operating depth
Can anyone tell me as i have asked on so many channels yet no response was Edmund Fitzgerald related to rose Fitzgerald (KENNEDY ) THE MOTHER OF THE LATE PRESIDENT JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY 🕯️i always wondered what happened to those brave men that night in November may all the 29 men rip 🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️ love and respect to all the families 🙏 cheers stevo 🍀🍀🍀🍀
I think the ship broke up on the surface. Too many big freighters have broken up in the same manner. How does 200’ of the ship crumble, in the middle of the ship, just by hitting the bottom of the lake? Makes no sense. And now, the fact that at least one crew member had a live jacket on, says something traumatic happened fast while it was still afloat. The ship was a “workhorse” and setting records. It was likely compromise from years of being overloaded just so the captain could beat his chest. I would bet it developed stress cracks, crew was high alert as she took on water and then a rogue wave hit her and broke her in half and crushed her.
Who the hell are you to criticize a song from which every dollar from sales and other proceeds went to the families of the victims? Its a song , not a timeline account of what happened. Gordon Lightfoot never kept one dollar from the proceeds of that song. Who are you???" 2k followers on RUclips ?
How could it dive that fast if 200’ of stern is still up top, full of air?? Wouldn’t that slow down the dive? Wouldn’t it have to be broken in half up top to ALLOW it to dive that fast without the buoyancy of the stern section?
Oh, and don’t forget the fence that was down before the ship 2:34 sank. How did that go down. No wave is gonna knock down that cable. I believe the damaged hull was allowing the boat to bend so far, it pulled that fence down from the massive stretch as the center of the ship rose up and the bow and keel sunk down on the ends as she rode over the waves.
Its possible that the crew went back on deck to "fix" hatch covers at some point and left in a hurry, not re-securing all the locks. Why else would someone be trying to go on deck?
Hello from Texas. Really enjoyed the presentation. Lots of good information. What I am curious about, and probably will never be able to answer, is did the lengthening of the Anderson's hull and the probable replacement of her hull steel in the process saved her in that storm? I think that the best thing to come out of the Fitzgerald wreck is that ship captains and shipping companies learned finally learned that it wasn't worth it to sail into severe weather.
Wrong. The port side door is on the opposite side of the wind and the rain. Port is on the left which is the shore side which is the lee side. They were ready to jump out!
There is no story to tell on the Edmund Fitzgerald. That boat had no chance of survival in that storm. That boat was road hard and put away wet. Poorly maintained and overloaded time and time again, year after year. That because an insurance company owned her. It was all about profitability per season. Insurance companies rip the public off so they can own vessels like this and make even more money off your purse
I finally couldn’t take the kid anymore and the closing off of the site makes no since and is actually kinda selfish too, because we always need to know the cause of a accident as it might prevent another accident.
I’ve wondered about this too. Why does this particular set of family members get to demand that this particular ship is a gravesite and can’t be looked at? Literally thousands of people, all of whom had loved ones on shore, have died on shipwrecks and their bodies never recovered. I’m not trying to be disrespectful to anyone but why aren’t all “gravesites” treated the same? I think people should be permitted to dive at least until they know for sure what happened so it can hopefully be prevented from happening again. There will always be sickos who want to dive on wrecks or rubberneck car accidents or whatever because they get a perverse thrill out of seeing dead people. So why not retrieve the bodies that could be found by divers and bring them up? I understand the families’ desire for their loved one’s final resting place but truthfully, it is public space. They didn’t own the boat, they don’t own Lake Superior. They were financially compensated. And also I agree, who brings their baby to one of these talks?? Talk about not respecting the history, let’s have a toddler babble through the whole thing.
Well I might young dumb and barley able to get a job but to my knowledge the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald was accurate to what was known at the time. It was suspected the hatch’s weren’t bolted down, she might’ve split up,she might’ve broke deep. She did say she had water coming in, and for being published what 4-8 months after the wreck it made sense to screw up some stuff.
I wish you would stop calling these vessels "boats". That is an insult to any Captain that steams one of these Ships. I'm an U.S. Navy veteran. I'm 65 years old and when I was younger it was unheard of to call any vessel bigger than a fishing boat. 100 ft or so.
Lakers are traditionally boats no matter the size, and Salties are from the ocean. Had to unlearn that when I moved away from the lakes and people had freakouts.
This is NOT a comedy. Why are people laughing? A guy recording his last will and tossing it overboard IS NOT FUNNY, but this room full of asses find it funny. Laughing at any part of this story is so insensitive its mind boggling.
Jordan Densefoot’s rock music attempt at telling the greatest story of a ship lost on the Great Lakes is pretty lackluster, but I think most of us watching already knew it.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
In Gordon Lightfoot's defense he wrote the song pretty soon after the wreck from a short article in Newsweek. So it wouldn't be forgotten. Like every other Great Lakes tragedy. It's not forgotten. Safety may have improved a little , but awareness to the perils increased. Interest in the Great Lakes wrecks. But he did keep in touch with the families and created a scholarship fund for maritime families.
I agree totally. And also in writing a song sometimes certain words do not fit, so I don't have a problem with that. He done a great thing and wrote a wonderful song that I think will keep these 29 men and their families to be never forgotten. I think if I remember correctly I saw a documentary and heard the song for the first time at the end of it but how many people have heard the song and it made them want to dig into the subject. I know I would have had I only heard it first.
Either way it's a great song
@@dansweet6793A great song written by a GREAT MUSICIAN. Gordon Lightfoot and Warren Zevon are the closest the Modern Age had to the Medieval Troubadours: they wrote songs which told stories.
Thank you I’m so fascinated by all the great ship that sailed on these Great Lakes, really enjoy every video I can find. It’s so heartbreaking to me. Men and ships lost to those Great Lakes.
The ego of the presenter is on display throughout the speech, yukking it up a bit especially at the beginning for some ego-boosting courtesy laughs from the assembled audience.
It's almost like a comic trying to make this tragedy funny.
I worked at Republic Steel in Cleveland & unloaded the "Fitz" several times.. including the summer of 1975.. It was a site seeing her come down the Cuyahoga aided by two tugs.. she was regal compared to the Cleveland Cliffs boats.. btw I unloaded the Anderson too... I operated the "hi-lift".. a Caterpillar 920 front end loader.. a rubber tire tractor.. it took over 8 hours of digging by the huletts to drop the hi-lift in.. it was necessary to use the hi-lift to gather up the taconite after most of the cargo had been unloaded.. the huletts were so powerful they could puncture the side tanks and hold bottom if they scratched around too much. At the signaled time I would park the hi-lift under the hulett and wire cables attached to the hi-lift would be hooked to the hulett.. i'd make my way up the ladder and down into the hold.. the aim being to push the taconite into more manageable piles for the hulett operator.. fyi if the boat wasn''t ready for the loader I was welcomed to sit in the galley and drink coffee and eat to my hearts content..
I've watched several of your presentations and really enjoyed them... I have to say though I question your statement about the bulkheads on the Fitz... I operated against those bulkhead and don't remember them being screen.. I do recall ports on the bottom of the bulk heads to allow water to drain from compartment to compartment.. not that the Fitz did but some of the boats.. primarily the Canadian lines, also shipped grain.. if we had a load of taconite and grain was going to be hauled next, the hands were assembled in the hold.. fire hoses sprayed the beam structure above.. and the boat was literally swept with metal brooms.. then washed.. hence the need for the bulk head ports.. ... tmi I know.. I'll leave it at that.. keep up the informative work and RIP to the Crew
PS.. The Anderson was sold a few times post 1975.. out of respect to those brave sailors, despite the sale, her name remaines the Arthur M Anderson.. as of this note 5/25/2023 she is underway on Superior!!
Cat920, is that the next one down from the 944?
@@seamusburke9101 i think there was a 930 then.. not positive..
I agree with you.
Jeff Thomas is BY FAR my favourite Great Lakes Storyteller.
That having been said, I wish he weren't as dismissive of Gordon Lightfoot and that incredible song as he is. Yes...I realise he is in part joking...but I was so lucky to see Gord in concert...and we were in the front row. He came back for an encore..and he introduced his bandmembers, named his technicians-:"THESE are the talented folks who make ME LOOK GOOD" And he thanked the Security Guys...something rockstars NEVER do.But what made it for ME, he knelt down and shook hands with as many as he could reach--I'm 4'10. I was 99 lbs at the time-and a big guy elbowed me and my BFF out of the way. Gordon kinda fist-bumped him and said, " You need to be nice. Dont shove these little ladies who waited their turn" When he shook our hands, he folded our hand BETWEEN BOTH HIS and said, "Thanks for coming, ladies" and when I looked in my palm, there was his guitar pick with his name on it. I nearly cried.
That concert was my reward for going into remission from spinal cancer.
Sorry for the long tale..but nobody mentions the scholarship fund he used the $$ from that song to set up. Just snide remarks about getting the story wrong and I resent it.
The Fitz WOULDNT be the Legend, the Tourist draw it is without the song he was bitched at for "getting it wrong" to the point he CHANGED THE LYRICS.
And now he's gone.
BLESSED PEACE, GORD .🕊🍁🍁🍁🕊🕊🕊🍁🍁🍁
That was a great tidbit, thank you for sharing with us.
@@semperparatus678.You're welcome. Ive loved Gord's music since I was small. A genuine
TROUBADOUR.
@@katharper655Thank you for your wonderful story, and I’m sure that Capt. McSorley and his 28 shipmates are more than honored and glad to have Gordon with THEM now
@@michiganman9599 A marvelous point...and a warm and reassuring thought: a NEW VALHALLA full of the kind of Heroes so often overlooked..of quiet courage.
I remembered to mention the scholarship fund and the awareness raised. There hasn't been a tragedy since. Hmmm coincidence? Great personal story
I heard on another video that Mr Lightfoot donated the royalties to this song to the families of those who perished. I also saw in that samefilm that upon Mr Lightfoot's passing away, that they rang the bell at the old church house cathedral 29 times for each sailor and one time for Mr Lightfoot. 30 rings! What an honorable thing.......❤
Too bad there is a child disrupting the speaker’s presentation throughout the entire duration. How selfish of the parent not to exit and allow the attendees and all future listeners to enjoy this presentation. Had to exit and find another presentation/documentary that was more professional without distraction.
These people occasionally find something funny enough to actually laugh out loud as the storyteller is talking. I doubt a child's disruption mattered much to them.
I really want to complain about the babbling kid in the background,that messed up an awesome presentation, but I wont.
I think, you should, so please do. But make sure your complaint is directed at the rude parent(s), not the child who is just being normal.
I am surprised no one told the parent(s), out!
I actually enjoyed that. Children are the future! I bet we were all like that once upon a time.
@@yvonneollivier7088Yeah...no kiddin! I understand REALLY wanting to attend a lecture like this one. Jeff is my favourite speaker--even over Ric Mixter, who STARTED his lecturing career with The Fitzgerald. Mixter built his career on lectures..now charges for HIS talks, and always drags his MERCH to his talks. Jeff just comes and talks..and does a SUPER job. But the parents of that VERY HAPPY KID need their rude fannies kicked!!
Go ahead on Piker...that brat ruin a really, good presentation!
@llew...
I'm sure I made a lot of racket...like most brats do.
However my parents had the good sense to hire a sitter, or make me behave in public.
I have to disagree with your comment at 55:39. The Legend DOES live on because of Gordon Lightfoot's song. If not for that song, millions of people would have no knowledge whatsoever of the Edmund Fitzgerald. I was very young when this occurred and the only reason I knew about was from his song. Likewise with millions of other people who continue to hear him sing it. And Gordon Lightfoot personalized it.
So the other shipwrecks mean nothing because someone didn't write a song about them? Sounds more like an exploited shipwreck for profit. Only because of the more modern times with radio and TV, it was made into a bigger deal than other shipwrecks where mothers, father, brothers sisters etc, lost people they love. Hence why the sarcasm over the song. Not saying it wasn't a good song or meaningful. Just saying passed lost crews were just as important.
Jeff Thomas is one of the best story tellers and researchers of Great Lakes maritime history. Great job, keep them coming!
36:23 I see a sharp v shape punch in the mud in between the bow and stern indicating a nosedive to the bottom and bulldozing a circular path with the bow being dragged backwards while the stern still vertical out of the water at a 40-60 degree bent and still floating above the surface and almost like a full circle bull dozed pivot; the bow on the lake bottom pivoting and stern is severely wrenched and twisted side to side on the surface and shredded in the middle like cheese and twisted over in the massive waves and end sinks upside down with the ballast tanks full of water on one side/ settled cargo? Also, the stern as it broke free from the bow was quite up right bulldozed a reverse curve path behind the bow pivot path as the stern settled into its final position with the 3 upsides down hatch covers ripped away in straight 45-degree stern bulldozed curve path? I am not an expert, but the illustration is prevalent. Does not matter who is right or wrong, money is number one over possible life loss with no common sense.
I’m watching from Ireland! This presentations are so well down! I’m dying to see the Great lakes someday!
IT WAS A *SONG*
Are you aware that he wrote the song on the fly.. incorporating the info in NEWSWEEK.? Which he probably felt he could trust. A NUMBER 1 song on the Billboard Hot 100....which has become a Classic. He was nagged and harassed until he did something singer-songwriters never do:
HE CHANGED HIS LYRICS.
Sad.. since I'm betting that, WITHOUT Gord's song, the Fitzgerald Families wouldn't have had the leverage they did to raise the bell. Those trips down that deep COST. The Newt Suit and operator would have cost a fortune.
THANK GOODNESS they had the means to honour THEIR lost loved 0nes.
In large part due to
"THAT SONG"
Only in the interest of correct facts I must say that the song only reached #2 on the chart. In my opinion it should have been #1 but there we are. I know it’s nitpicking but I can’t help it…. My understanding was that he only changed the lyric about the hatches in some live performances because he wanted to show respect to the family members who felt like it implied that the crew hadn’t properly done their job as far as fastening them. There is still some controversy about the hatches and there are still people who believe that it was crew error that caused the loss of the ship so I can understand the families feeling a little defensive. The whole thing is tragic and thank God that Mr. Lightfoot wrote his beautiful song that continues to draw interest in this story over 40 years later. God bless him!
“Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?” Nobody will ever match that lyric!!
It was nominated for a Grammy too, sadly lost to Barry manalo (can’t spell it lol)
am i a jerk bc i find the child annoying? asking honestly. If i was there I would be annoyed that this person brought their child - that they didn't seem to have the courtesy (common maybe?) to not bring a child who obviously can't keep quiet in a setting like this for this long. It just feels incredibly selfish, rude, disrespectful and ridiculous and I don't understand a decision to do something like this.
edit: 20 minutes in. Am i crazy? I might be crazy - this would drive me crazy.
Its not you, its rude to bring a child, and they refuse to be quiet you need to leave and get them out
Nope, not a jerk. It bothered me too.
You are right. The parent should have gone out with the baby. That parent is rude.
I found it distracting.
No, I had the same experience when I saw the new Beauty and the beast with my niece someone brought thier 7 month old baby into the theater, I just shook my head. I have a high tolerance for kids even though they can be painfully annoying. But a six month old in a loud theater with a grumpy Beast on the screen won't go over well.
I normally don't access Wikipedia articles, but I was searching for Captain Dudley J. Paquette, the name of the last living captain of a boat that also sailed in that storm to be interviewed, and that resulted in a book.
That book, The Night the Fitz Went Down, is by Hugh E. Bishop, who consulted with Captain Paquette.
It took a while to find that...I had this interesting book years ago, but gave it to someone.
Back to Wikipedia, which presents the theory, along with other hypotheses in the body of a very detailed article, that it was structural stress that doomed the Fitz. That she was not in condition to sail could be a reason for the Coast Guard, which approved greater loads and was also responsible for inspection, and I believe safety certification, to prefer that mystery remain. This is the theory that Captain Paquette considered fit the facts.
The Wikipedia articles covers this theory briefly, but adequately, under the header: Structural failure hypothesis.
One should read through to this:
"The stress fracture hypothesis was supported by the testimony of former crewman."
And then read that section!
One crewman who signed a deposition, George Burgner, was NOT asked to testify by the Marine Board of Inquiry. He had worked on the Fitzgerald for 10 seasons.
The seeming premature scrapping of the Homer may well be speculated as to have been ordered because that boat had similar defects.
The families, IMO, have no right to object to forensic examination of that boat. If anything can be learned as to a contributing cause of her demise, it should be examined.
If a relative of my own had been on her, I would want that investigation. It cannot be honestly blamed only on weather if the boat was not structurally sound.
I have that book, it was really interesting.
Absolutely 1000% AGREE!
Paquette was the captain of the Wilfred Sykes
Respectfully... someone needs to go down and bring up the logbook... (if it hasnt been taken already?) btw each of the EF crews families were paid a settlement of $600 for the lives of each crewman. Unbelievable that a paltry $600 is the value of each hardworking mariner on the EF!
It hasn’t been and I think they’re working under the assumption that the corpses of the bridge crew are all down the rear stairwell along with assorted charts and documents including the log book and don’t want to disturb it. Though I completely agree with you in that it really needs to be retrieved though hard to say if there’s any notes in there once trouble started. I also believe the victims families sued and were awarded an undisclosed settlement later on in the 70s though I’m not certain, $600 is disgraceful. It sounds honestly like something you would hear in a third world maritime disaster
Hello from Belfast Northern Ireland love your presentions have watched them all keep them coming
I really enjoy Jeff's presentations, I find the subject very interesting and he does a very good job with his research and how he tells his stories. I look forward to seeing his next installments if he has more.
It’s strange to me this is the only ship that’s not allowed to be dove on.
If I was a family member I would want to know what happened so maybe it wouldn’t happen to somebody else’s loved ones
Personally I think those ships were built too long for lakes and the storms they have there. Being so long looks to me like it would make them easier to break in the middle
My dad played the 45 of the song repeatedly… drove my older sister crazy. I like the song.
If the Fitz nose dived and hit the bottom in one piece; dont you think taconite pellets would have slid forward and would be scattered all over the front of the ship? She dumped her cargo before hitting bottom. The hull finally gave up from the hogging and sagging with all that water inside it. She only had 3 bulk heads, unlike every other ship with 5. The Fitz was fragile and a ticking time bomb.
Sorry bucko but Gordon Lightfoot did not get most of the story wrong. He got it mostly right and some wrong. But if that's how you're analyzing the song then you're forgetting it's a song, not an essay. And that song has done more to promote and memorialize the story of the Fitzgerald and its crew than this speaker ever has or ever will.
Well said sir plus this guy did this so well that he has added in a child trying to talk plus somebody laughing at some of his content
I just cannot believe this parent did did that this. And he or she is right up close to the microphone - rediculous, some people.
I keep hearing that Gordon Lightfoot got it so wrong, however if it wasn’t for that song I would never know about Great Lakes Shipping no would I care. I have lived in the southwestern desert all of my life, so I knew nothing until I heard the song and started investigating it on my own and found a whole new world. So I thank Mr. Lightfoot.
Gordon was a song writer, not a historian
@@gregorylyon1004 True enough.
They had to be innocent "wrongs". They only found out truths of this wreck decades later. I think he did a great job. A lot of heart there, and such a great artist.......
I always thought the Homer was scrapped due to collision damage. Either way it always struck me as odd how short that ship's career was
It was but the company was worried that the Homer had the flaws of the Fitz as it's the same same design...but so was the William Clay Ford and she sailed for a long time with no major problems and assisted in the search for the Fitz.
The Homer never seen the water again after the Fitz went down. Doesn't that tell you something about it's construction???? Sister ship of the Fitzgerald
Great video, very informative and spell binding, you find yourself anxiously awaiting the next sentence. Thank you.
The Herbert C Jackson is hull 302 from Great Lakes Engineering Works and still sails. Fitzgerald was 301, the Arthur B Homer hull 303. I would assume the Herbert C Jackson is a near sister ship to the Fitzgerald and visually appears so. She is, I assume, the closest link to the Fitzgerald we have left.
Herbert c. Jackson was a 690 footer with a 6000 hp power plant. Not close to a sister ship. She may have used similar construction methods though. I’ll give you that much.
@@ronwilson3555 well yeah…”*closest* link”….39 foot difference out of 729 is about 5%
It sickens me when I hear some of these presenters scrutinize Gordon Lightfoot's ballad over irrelevant places and things, Mr. Lightfoot was a man of integrity and compassion. What was known at the time of the songs release was vague conjecture. Cleveland or Detroit, what does it matter....."a main hatchway caved in".....is an indication of the severity of the storm, 'not as' incompetence by the crew. It was written to create a visual interpretation of the events that were being endured. The ballad of 'Big Bad John' is a perfect comparison. His ballad was written as a memorial to the ship and crew, not as a scientific analysis. Mr. Lightfoot personally continued to stay in touch with family members of the crew, attended memorials and donated financially to all related to the crew members.
I posted a reply to this comment in another area but I wanted to repeat that I absolutely agree with you. My understanding though, is that the reason the hatchway lyric was an issue was because some of the families took it as meaning that the hatches weren’t properly fastened and that implied that the crew didn’t properly do their job. I can’t vouch for whether that’s true or not but I read that Mr. Lightfoot, out of respect for the families, actually changed those lyrics in some live performances. Either way, I can definitely say that my interest in “Big Fitz” stems directly from the song.
Yes, he did@@myroselle6987 The thing is is that a hatchway caving doesn't necessarily indicate a lack of care by the crew. I just find it hard to believe that a seasoned Captain with the knowledge of the upcoming weather conditions wouldn't have taken the proper procedures to insure a buttoned-up ship. Their course was even altered to compensate for the predicted weather conditions.
Im in the process of writing a short fictional novel about the "old cook" on the Edmund Fitzgerald. It will be a bit annoying to be "called out" by people nitpicking the facts and figures of the ship etc. Its fiction! Its meant to paint a picture, and make you imagine what the cook's experience on the ship was.
Looking at another video that’s come out in the last couple of weeks which contains testimony of a hullett operator who was at the last unloading before her final trip. On that occasion the hullett bit a 20ft chunk of plating out of the bottom of the hold which is also the tank top of the ballast tank. The dock supervisor offered to weld it back in place for McSorley but it would take about 4 hours. McSorley said no I gotta go, and he did with the plate placed back but unsecured meaning there was no watertight integrity between that ballast tank and the hold, it would be held down by the loaded taconite with the Fitzgerald due for dry docking at the end of the trip to be lengthened when presumably this defect would’ve been rectified as part of that work.
I'll tell you my theory on why the Fitzgerald went to the bottom. Poor maintenance. Fence rail down mens that boat was hogging. It almost certainly had to have hit bottom. Blown vents means that air was escaping the cargo hold. Which means huge amounts of water are pouring in. A big wave hit her hard. You can tell because the deck house is smashed in front. No radar ti guide her. Too close to the shore at six fathom shoal.
she might've split up or she might've capsized, she may have broke deep and took water...
“Does anyone know where the love of God goes when the waves turn the minutes to hours?” No other poet could have put it more beautifully…
This is a great presentation. I really enjoyed your detail, and sense of humor. The child adding extra commentary was an unusual addition
I also enjoyed Gordon's song, but I was 13 when it came out so I think that's pretty understandable.
You get a "clean break" on cold, brittle steel, created using the bessimer process that left high sulfur content. Modern steel, like that used on the Fitz, would likely bend and shred. I think she was compromised and came apart on top, but didn't separate completely until hitting bottom.
Jennings Frazier was the name of the gentleman who had a heart attack and died on the day the Fitzgerald was launched.
Whoever is in the background should be quiet...its annoying trying to hear the presenter with them in the background.
They should have gotten up and taken their toddler outside.
Why didn't Captain McSorley go to the downwind side of Caribou Island , drop anchor or beach it?
Who are the annoying people in the background?
Your everyday annoying people in the background.
@@lonewolf9390 😂🤣
Someone brought a bored toddler. Like that’s a good idea.
@@brookswade5774 😂🤣
Couldn't find a baby sitter could ye?
It's beautiful documentary,bat baby in foreground is unbelievable 😢
I have never understood parents. babysitters, etc. who, rather than miss a specific event, drag the kid(s) along, to the COMPLETE JOY of those whose lives are tragically child-FREE. (Please note the intended sarcasm.)
I HAVE seen and heard worse-behaved kids than this one in gatherings..BUT STILL...c'mon, folks!
@@katharper655 yes so rude to others who are trying to hear
The structure between the first hatch and the wheel house that is smashed; has anyone considered maybe a giant wave hit the middle of the ship, broke it in half, made her do a cartwheel, causing the stern section to hit and smash that structure before she sank? That could explain a little.
She was taking on water for four hours , that's what did her in.Bernie Cooper knew exactly what happened to her around Caribou Is.
While I thoroughly enjoyed this presentation, the conversation about the NTSB is not 100% accurate. They investigate mostly aviation, however they also do shipping whether it be ships, trains even 18 wheeler accidents. I'm sure there is more. Originally they were just for aviation. Later on they developed into investigation into other accidents and mishaps.
A nstb guy tried to look on the arthur b homer and told him to pound sand
Gordon's song mentions the hatch giving way, and possible expressions of a crew in chaos- hardly "wrong" considering numerous unproven theories based on actual evidence.
It's likely the reason the center section is collapsed "missing " is because it was weakened ......damaged from scraping bottom earlier in the day. Depending on how big the leak was, would determine how long it could stay afloat. She just slowly filled up with water and that big wave sent it to the bottom. Not straight up and down to where the stern was 200' feet out of the water like told here, but more of an angle. When the bow hit the bottom the damaged section crumpled. FWIW
I've gotten tired of listening to the 1905 and 1913 videos which I've listened to at least three times. Your UFO remark has a little different kind of a shine on it these days though huh? Thank you for the constant effort on the stories of the lakes
I'm glad you did this story because the story of the Fitzgerald never gets old, I'm always asking why there are multiple movies about the Titanic but not one about the Edmund Fitzgerald. It pisses me off to no end. Fun fact my hairdresser grew up with Deckhand Bruce Hudson. I had the pleasure of seeing the Anderson as a kid in 2001 when it passed our ferry boat.
@@ElleUnbothered agreed
Probably because the Titanic took 2 hours and 40 minutes to sink - plenty of time for so many stories of heroism, stoicism, drama, and even cowardice to play out, and plenty of survivors to tell various stories of what happened. The Edmund Fitzgerald essentially sunk 'instantly' with NO survivors, so there's not much of a 'story' to play out. You could tell the story of the storm, but we all know how it ends, SUDDENLY, WHAM! into the bottom of Lake Superior. You could tell the back stories of the crew, but it would be unsatisfying to the movie going audience; i.e.- no little kids get to hug their Daddy again after he's plucked from the cold unforgiving waters . . . . The Edmund Fitzgerald story just seems to be better suited to documentaries than to movies. Just my opinion.
That was road hard and put away wet by the owners. An insurance company
Shut that kid up. Otherwise i fully love this video.
That was fascinating. My favourite part though was the infant putting their input into this great maritime mystery. I like how you say “I don’t know” when you don’t. A lot of folk try to bullshit their way out of these situations which as an engineer I find infuriating. I’d rather someone tell me the truth and then I can appreciate we have a “known unknown” to deal with rather than someone just making stuff up and hoping for the best. When you know a piece of the jigsaw is missing we can all put our heads together and figure out a solution, rather than going down a blind alley based on a guess or conjecture. Chapeau to you sir!
What people seem to forget is The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald is a song, not a documentary.
Heard an interview and Lightfoot was annoyed that the wreck got so little attention and one article that was written didn't even correctly spell the name of the ship. To Lightfoot that was insult to injury.
It wasn't the families that wanted the bell, it was an unscrupulous museum director that talked the families into it.
The more I listen to the evidence, the more I think a couple of the theories played out. The boat began to break up. Captain knew it was going down. Propped the door open for a fast escape. Got caught by the 3 sisters that passed the Anderson, they hit the Fitz and caused it to dive. Hit the bottom and the already broken hull shattered from impact. That could explain why there was no ore in front of the cargo. It already partially spilled out while she was on top. Something with its different bulkhead design kept it attached on top and allowed it to dive. Captain never got a distress call out because, like the Morrel, she lost power from breaking on top. That's my theory anyway.
I enjoy your finding the synchronicity of the Fitzgerald, William Clay Ford, and the Arthur M. Anderson based on the Fitzgerald's maiden voyage and it's demise. I also enjoy this information.
The Blough and Clarke was involved with the search as well...many salties refused to help and they was just miles from the Fitz last know position..that's sad isn't it.
Are Following seas easier or harder on the ship? I've never understood this idea....
I spent 2 years of my life on tankers at sea and I would say a following sea is always desirable. There's actually an expression that wishes you following seas. When your pushing against the seas it's a far more difficult crossing. When you see video of ships diving into a wave they are going against the sea.
Man, get your audio together!
It’s unfortunate that what could of been one of the best lectures on the Fitzgerald sinking/event was ruined for its entire length by someone not shutting off the spectators mic and so we got to listen to noise and talk of others “including the child doing what children do”!! Poor planning or ignorance?
Hatch covers weren't dogged They had knocked a 20-ft hole in the bottom of the boat and it's last unload didn't welded up just throw the plate down and put on the taconite. Then got too close to six fathom shoals stabbed in the bottom of the boat from that minute on story was over. They found the Chadburn at the bottom of the lake of the Edmund Fitzgerald and its wide open full throttle
Turning around in a storm is one of the most dangerous things to attempt
I mean its kinda weird its off limits. I mean the Kamloops has a body on it and that's open for diving.
Kamloops is almost 300 feet less deep than Fitzgerald, you have to be a very qualified technical diver with either a hard suit like a Newtsuit (if they’re even used anymore it was used in 1995 to remove the ships bell) or something similar along with a lot of exotic gas mixtures to deal with that kind of operating depth
Rip Gordon, heard it the other day and it renewed my interest and intrigue regarding the Fitzgerald
Can anyone tell me as i have asked on so many channels yet no response was Edmund Fitzgerald related to rose Fitzgerald (KENNEDY ) THE MOTHER OF THE LATE PRESIDENT JOHN FITZGERALD KENNEDY 🕯️i always wondered what happened to those brave men that night in November may all the 29 men rip 🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️ love and respect to all the families 🙏 cheers stevo 🍀🍀🍀🍀
I don’t believe so, Edmund Fitzgerald’s father was William Fitzgerald. Not sure what his mothers name was.
No. No relation at all.
I couldn't find any evidence of that so I would say no.
I think the ship broke up on the surface. Too many big freighters have broken up in the same manner. How does 200’ of the ship crumble, in the middle of the ship, just by hitting the bottom of the lake? Makes no sense. And now, the fact that at least one crew member had a live jacket on, says something traumatic happened fast while it was still afloat. The ship was a “workhorse” and setting records. It was likely compromise from years of being overloaded just so the captain could beat his chest. I would bet it developed stress cracks, crew was high alert as she took on water and then a rogue wave hit her and broke her in half and crushed her.
Who the hell are you to criticize a song from which every dollar from sales and other proceeds went to the families of the victims? Its a song , not a timeline account of what happened. Gordon Lightfoot never kept one dollar from the proceeds of that song. Who are you???" 2k followers on RUclips ?
How could it dive that fast if 200’ of stern is still up top, full of air?? Wouldn’t that slow down the dive? Wouldn’t it have to be broken in half up top to ALLOW it to dive that fast without the buoyancy of the stern section?
Oh, and don’t forget the fence that was down before the ship 2:34 sank. How did that go down. No wave is gonna knock down that cable. I believe the damaged hull was allowing the boat to bend so far, it pulled that fence down from the massive stretch as the center of the ship rose up and the bow and keel sunk down on the ends as she rode over the waves.
There’s no cargo left on the bottom of the lake because she lost her cargo when she broke up on top.
Its possible that the crew went back on deck to "fix" hatch covers at some point and left in a hurry, not re-securing all the locks. Why else would someone be trying to go on deck?
Famous Last Words....yea right Capt.
Hello from Texas. Really enjoyed the presentation. Lots of good information.
What I am curious about, and probably will never be able to answer, is did the lengthening of the Anderson's hull and the probable replacement of her hull steel in the process saved her in that storm?
I think that the best thing to come out of the Fitzgerald wreck is that ship captains and shipping companies learned finally learned that it wasn't worth it to sail into severe weather.
I wish that kid would shut up. Very distracting.
A previous Fitzgerald build and launched in Wyandotte.
Excuse me-Any Money he Made for this Story went to the Familys
@Cindy...
Gordon Light foot donated all the money made from his song to the families...
Two cents here, Bucko. If Gordon Lightfoot never wrote the song, you would never have made this video. There would be zero interest in Big Fitz today.
Exactly right. The 29 people are remembered collectively only thanks to Mr. Lightfoot, which is sad but it's true.
Wrong. The port side door is on the opposite side of the wind and the rain. Port is on the left which is the shore side which is the lee side.
They were ready to jump out!
What did the union do to help these men?
Thx for a different opinion on the possible reason the fitz sunk
There is no story to tell on the Edmund Fitzgerald. That boat had no chance of survival in that storm. That boat was road hard and put away wet. Poorly maintained and overloaded time and time again, year after year. That because an insurance company owned her. It was all about profitability per season. Insurance companies rip the public off so they can own vessels like this and make even more money off your purse
Did the order of the Fitzgerald come in the summer of 58 because of the loss of the Bradley. 🙏🇺🇲🗽🇺🇲🙏
Shes not the queen. it is the king of the great lakes
I finally couldn’t take the kid anymore and the closing off of the site makes no since and is actually kinda selfish too, because we always need to know the cause of a accident as it might prevent another accident.
I’ve wondered about this too. Why does this particular set of family members get to demand that this particular ship is a gravesite and can’t be looked at? Literally thousands of people, all of whom had loved ones on shore, have died on shipwrecks and their bodies never recovered. I’m not trying to be disrespectful to anyone but why aren’t all “gravesites” treated the same? I think people should be permitted to dive at least until they know for sure what happened so it can hopefully be prevented from happening again. There will always be sickos who want to dive on wrecks or rubberneck car accidents or whatever because they get a perverse thrill out of seeing dead people. So why not retrieve the bodies that could be found by divers and bring them up? I understand the families’ desire for their loved one’s final resting place but truthfully, it is public space. They didn’t own the boat, they don’t own Lake Superior. They were financially compensated. And also I agree, who brings their baby to one of these talks?? Talk about not respecting the history, let’s have a toddler babble through the whole thing.
I live in Upper Michigan and HATE that fucking song.
@50:09 i don't think the families would appreciate the people laughing about ANY aspect of this storytelling.
Your podcast would be way better if it was just you.
This isn't a podcast. It's a local lecture series that they also record for RUclips.
Well I might young dumb and barley able to get a job but to my knowledge the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald was accurate to what was known at the time. It was suspected the hatch’s weren’t bolted down, she might’ve split up,she might’ve broke deep. She did say she had water coming in, and for being published what 4-8 months after the wreck it made sense to screw up some stuff.
I wish you would stop calling these vessels "boats". That is an insult to any Captain that steams one of these Ships. I'm an U.S. Navy veteran. I'm 65 years old and when I was younger it was unheard of to call any vessel bigger than a fishing boat. 100 ft or so.
Lakers are traditionally boats no matter the size, and Salties are from the ocean. Had to unlearn that when I moved away from the lakes and people had freakouts.
This is NOT a comedy. Why are people laughing? A guy recording his last will and tossing it overboard IS NOT FUNNY, but this room full of asses find it funny. Laughing at any part of this story is so insensitive its mind boggling.
Jordan Densefoot’s rock music attempt at telling the greatest story of a ship lost on the Great Lakes is pretty lackluster, but I think most of us watching already knew it.
Don’t include me in your moronic statement. Us?