In regards to the archives section when you were talking about Mira not receiving the star of Navarre and that Lilith seems to have been the one to downgrade her award I have been wondering for so long why she would do that but I just realized it was probably to protect Mira, if she received the highest military honor then they would have probably brought her in on the venin secret and she knew Mira, like violet, would not just go along with it and she wanted to protect Mira for as long as she could! Similarly to how she threw violet into the riders quadrant to protect her she downgraded Mira’s award to protect her too. It is very in character for Lilith knowing how far she’d go to protect her children and to me this seems like the only reason she would not want Mira to receive such a high honor!❤ (Love you guys by the way and I can’t believe your iron flame deep dives are almost over! So excited for acotar though!)
in regards to why Violet stopped the thought about Andarna being another type of dragon, it could also just be as simple as, she didnt want to alert Tairn to Andarna's secret.
Regarding the General that we all thought was a Sage, there is a sentence in FW in the battle when he is going to attack Xaden and Garrick flings a dagger, but then he scapes into the ground and Tairn says: "A General can recognize another general, and that's their leader". After this episode this passage made so much sense now. I'm gonna miss so much this videos! Love your podcast, girls!
On the topic of "Do us both a favour and don't ask" (@1:16:38), I simply thought Xaden meant he could sense the venins' intentions, maybe his signet works on them too..
I don't actually think the epigraph from chapter 61 is correct, i think it's intentionally misleading. The humans think that the venin have extra heightened senses because the SHADOWS were extra strong the night the king was killed. I think being venin actually heightens your signet, to the extent that whoever killed the king could turn into shadow, rather than just wield shadows. This is why the venin want Xaden so badly, because he has the same shadow power that this venin (presumably their general) had. We then see in Xadens POV that his signet has strengthened to the point that he is undetectable, which I think is because he turned into the shadow itself
At LAST!! Other than me, you're the only person I've seen talk about that epigraph and how it relates to Xaden! I 100% agree with you about his shadows.👏 @fantasyfangirlspod What are your thoughts on this theory, please?🙏🏼
@debbieturk9241 Ikr! I'm surprised I haven't heard anyone talk about this! I also think that Xaden's shadows have something to do with Liam's appearance in the interrogation scene. The last time we see Liam, it's said that he takes one step back into the shadows, then another. He never actually says goodbye to Violet, and there's no mention of him actually leaving the room. I'm not sure exactly how Xaden's power will play into it, but I don't think this is the last time we'll see Liam.
Ah, thank you for this!! (sorry for being 7 months late, just doing my re-read now in prep for OS). I also 100% think Xaden's shadows are a main reason why the Venin want him. If the OG lightning wielder brother from the Great War was the one who ultimately took Daramor down the first time, it makes sense that this is why the Venin are more torn on Violet. The General wants to turn her, but "the one who watched," (whoever that is) thinks she's too dangerous and just needs to be killed. But all throughout Iron Flame (and arguably even Fourth Wing), the Venin want Xaden. Why? Think about all of Violet and Xaden's sexy times. He smothers her lightning! It can't hurt him, where it burns or kills anyone else who comes in contact. And with Xaden's shadows even stronger now he's Venin? He's the perfect weapon against Violet. He's also morally weaker. The General probably thinks Xaden can get Violet to turn at best, or can control him enough to neutralize Violet at worst. This epigraph was driving me nuts, but your explanation totally makes sense!
Going back to your theory about Warrick and Lyra being lovers, I found an epigraph that would support it. I haven't seen anyone else mention this. Iron Flame, Chapter 55 epigraph, "Nothing kills powerful, unbreakable love faster than opposing ideologies - The Journal of Warrick of Luceras...". I think this is Warrick's "it cost me everything".
Does anyone else think that General Melgren is terrible at his job? Without his signet he seems to be an awful tactician and even knowing that his signet is now extremely limited, he still doesn’t even try to compensate for that, beyond just putting marked ones into battles he doesn’t see them winning.
I have a theory about italics-- because in Violets' dreams the venin gives major Xaden parallels. In Ch 61 when Violet is training with Felix, he tells Violet that in regards to bringing the Riders to Aretia she wielded Xaden. "You wielded him." The word him is in italics. And then in 63 the venin ranting to Violet and Cat in the courtyard says "It'll be so much fun for him to wield you." once again, him is in italics. Rebecca Yarros doesn't do anything without reason. Anyone else catch this?
I'm surprised it seems like no one is talking more about the stones from Dunness River and the fact that it confines Venin's ability to channel. Now that some of the ground around Basgiath has been drained, I think we're going to see them use that drained ground in the next book (Venin prison??). P.S. I've started reading acotar in preperation for the new episodes! :)
I bounce between RUclips and Spotify listening to yall depending on what I'm doing. Totally just stopped everything to switch over and see The barbie section lol 😂
Maybe lira had 2 dragons like violet, and the other journal writer had her 7th breed dragon killed so that the wards couldn't be made again, hence the "i lost evrrything" comment 😢😢 would explain why andarnas egg was left behind 50 years before the events of the 6 just in case! Lira's journal shows that she wants to help everyone just like violet, maybe lira was the mind if a scribe/heart of a rider at the time of the first 6. Or even violet is a reincarnation of lira 😆😆
When Violet said to her squad " we don't die today" or whatever and they all said it back EXCEPT Sawyer who shook his head and I knew that meant something was going to happen to him. glad he didn't die though
I’ve been screaming at the top of my lungs every time you called him Sage. You girls were even starting to confuse me, like last episode I was like “wait, maybe I’m wrong, maybe they are different venins.” I’m so relieved you finally realized he’s a general lol
Have you considered the fact that after resin, the sage might’ve been been promoted to general where is, he might’ve started as a sage at the beginning of the book but by this battle, he was then promoted to general in between page one and here
1:33:46 - in my ebook of Iron Flame Jesinia and Cerella's surnames are not the same - they are written as Jesinia NEilwart and Cerella NIelwart - the placement of the letters I and E is different: can someone check their copy and tell me?
I can see a situation where Tairn or Sgaeyl dies sacrificing themselves to save Andarna, and it having nothing to do with Violet / Xaden. Xaden would live as he is no longer bound to Sgaeyl, and Violet lives through her bond with Andarna
The General is waiting for Xaden, because he knows that Xaden is the key to get to Violet. At the cliffs of Dralor, the General looks from Violet to Xaden. I think the General sees that Violet loves Xaden (maybe one of the Venin has the power to hear the conversation they were having?) and realized that he can eventually use Xaden to "wield" Violet and that is the only way to get her to turn. She is the ultimate prize, but he is the tool they intend to use.
The venin cryptic he is come , or the we will deliver you, or what ever they say . Is very much giving the assassins at the beginning of the book the whole “ secrets die with the people who keep them” and I can’t un think it .
I just happen to be rewatching the Divergent movies (yeah I’m with you don’t get me started on the shit ending) but it made me think of Four and his mom.***SPOILER**** His mom was the leader of the Fractionless and wanted him for her plans. I’m thinking the same thing for Xaden and his mom being venin
I’m doing my reread with fourth wing ch. 36 “A wyvern dives only to climb again with a human leg hanging from between its teeth.” This wyverns love eating human legs.
I have theory about the corspondence and the translation that Jesinia of these storys. These two books are writen in first person. there has to be a reason for this. 1 violet had a dairy because how else can Jesinia know all of this. 2 Violet is allive and told her, but even Violet can't be able to remember everyting that happen so still she must have kept a dairy of page.
Could they want Xaden so badly because his mom is a venin leader or something? It’s giving divergent with Four and his mom. It definitely could be and probably is because he’s so powerful but I’m also wondering about his mom!
I don’t think this is true - but … it’s emphasized in 4th wing that there are fewer and fewer dragons bonding - any possibility that dragons are going bad then helping to create the wyvern and the color they breath is the color dragon that gave them life.
Xaden mentions murdering people who came in between him and Violet in his POV, from that I think that the others will be aware that he is Venin. Who was murdered?
I think the bad breath dragons are connected to the wyvern... like the dark weilders can use them to create the wyvern in some way! Something about the rune stones in the seemingly dead ones at the border.... maybe there's a connected stone in the bad breath dragons that allows the wyvern to steal their magic idk but there is somethingggg 😂😅
Is the reason the sage is in the dream and general is in real life that is this is a different timeline? I know that the Nolan epigraph indicates that epigraph was from a different time period… Maybe those are flashbacks to a previous time?
37:00 my foreshadow for this topic is that ridoc and sawyer have now both been injured and that Rebecca is gonna kill Rhiannon. Sort of like how Jk Rowling took George’s ear but killed Fred. With her military husband, we know she killed Liam because her husband says your friends don’t always come back. I feel like she’s definitely gonna take one of the squad members for sure. Probably in the last book or something.
one doubt..jack killed bide his dragon right..but he didnt die...which shows venin can stay alive without their dragons if they are riders and their bond to the dragons is severed...how does one even become a venin tho...like do they just draw from the source and kind of sell their soul?...so xaden is a venin does that sever his bond with sygale? cuz that wouldnt ensure him being alive...if all of this is true then naolin i.e, tarin's earlier rider mightve made a deal with venins to keep brendan alive and became a venin..which in turn severed his bond to tarin..which left tarin devastated and betrayed...correct me if i am wrong anywhere
I hate how for both books you guys talk about how "The dragons smell like sulfur or smell bad so their owners are venin" but when it comes to andarna you just convienently just drop that whole idea and don't mention it at all. Yes their breath smells because they breath fire. It has nothing to do with venin
Sorry about the confusion, we acknowledge sulfur doesn't equal bad breath and it's associated with fire because yes, dragons breathe fire. And then when Andarna's breath smells like sulfur, it's foreshadowing for her about to breathe fire... That's not connected to any hunches that bad dragon breath might associate with venin.
In regards to the archives section when you were talking about Mira not receiving the star of Navarre and that Lilith seems to have been the one to downgrade her award I have been wondering for so long why she would do that but I just realized it was probably to protect Mira, if she received the highest military honor then they would have probably brought her in on the venin secret and she knew Mira, like violet, would not just go along with it and she wanted to protect Mira for as long as she could! Similarly to how she threw violet into the riders quadrant to protect her she downgraded Mira’s award to protect her too.
It is very in character for Lilith knowing how far she’d go to protect her children and to me this seems like the only reason she would not want Mira to receive such a high honor!❤
(Love you guys by the way and I can’t believe your iron flame deep dives are almost over! So excited for acotar though!)
in regards to why Violet stopped the thought about Andarna being another type of dragon, it could also just be as simple as, she didnt want to alert Tairn to Andarna's secret.
Every week when I listen to you two: I need to reread it!
My tbr:
I love you guys listening to how much fun you have makes me feel so much joy...
That means so much to us, thank you!! Love that you love listening to it
Rebecca describing this battle was a pure genius! My dyslexic and adhd mind was surprisingly able to follow and oh my gosh absolutely amazing!
Regarding the General that we all thought was a Sage, there is a sentence in FW in the battle when he is going to attack Xaden and Garrick flings a dagger, but then he scapes into the ground and Tairn says: "A General can recognize another general, and that's their leader". After this episode this passage made so much sense now.
I'm gonna miss so much this videos! Love your podcast, girls!
"Kick her sir"!!! Just spit my coffee everywhere!! LOL!!
I can't contain my excitement! You girls are amazing, and I absolutely adore you! Waking up early to catch your videos is totally worth it. 😍🤩😍
Aww thank you so much!!
On the topic of "Do us both a favour and don't ask" (@1:16:38), I simply thought Xaden meant he could sense the venins' intentions, maybe his signet works on them too..
i bet they do because Cat's could!
Ohh those are both very good points! We bring up this up about reading intentions in the upcoming final episode!
I don't actually think the epigraph from chapter 61 is correct, i think it's intentionally misleading. The humans think that the venin have extra heightened senses because the SHADOWS were extra strong the night the king was killed. I think being venin actually heightens your signet, to the extent that whoever killed the king could turn into shadow, rather than just wield shadows. This is why the venin want Xaden so badly, because he has the same shadow power that this venin (presumably their general) had. We then see in Xadens POV that his signet has strengthened to the point that he is undetectable, which I think is because he turned into the shadow itself
🤯🤯🤯
At LAST!! Other than me, you're the only person I've seen talk about that epigraph and how it relates to Xaden! I 100% agree with you about his shadows.👏
@fantasyfangirlspod What are your thoughts on this theory, please?🙏🏼
@debbieturk9241 Ikr! I'm surprised I haven't heard anyone talk about this! I also think that Xaden's shadows have something to do with Liam's appearance in the interrogation scene. The last time we see Liam, it's said that he takes one step back into the shadows, then another. He never actually says goodbye to Violet, and there's no mention of him actually leaving the room. I'm not sure exactly how Xaden's power will play into it, but I don't think this is the last time we'll see Liam.
Ah, thank you for this!! (sorry for being 7 months late, just doing my re-read now in prep for OS). I also 100% think Xaden's shadows are a main reason why the Venin want him. If the OG lightning wielder brother from the Great War was the one who ultimately took Daramor down the first time, it makes sense that this is why the Venin are more torn on Violet. The General wants to turn her, but "the one who watched," (whoever that is) thinks she's too dangerous and just needs to be killed. But all throughout Iron Flame (and arguably even Fourth Wing), the Venin want Xaden. Why? Think about all of Violet and Xaden's sexy times. He smothers her lightning! It can't hurt him, where it burns or kills anyone else who comes in contact. And with Xaden's shadows even stronger now he's Venin? He's the perfect weapon against Violet. He's also morally weaker. The General probably thinks Xaden can get Violet to turn at best, or can control him enough to neutralize Violet at worst. This epigraph was driving me nuts, but your explanation totally makes sense!
Xaden letters to Violet are the best.. I need a book full of them 😭😭 I literally scream when Violet got the first letter from him 🥲
Going back to your theory about Warrick and Lyra being lovers, I found an epigraph that would support it. I haven't seen anyone else mention this. Iron Flame, Chapter 55 epigraph, "Nothing kills powerful, unbreakable love faster than opposing ideologies - The Journal of Warrick of Luceras...". I think this is Warrick's "it cost me everything".
Even in Resson, Tairn straight up said that the venin was a general and not a sage! Idk why Violet insisted on calling him a sage the entire time lol
Does anyone else think that General Melgren is terrible at his job? Without his signet he seems to be an awful tactician and even knowing that his signet is now extremely limited, he still doesn’t even try to compensate for that, beyond just putting marked ones into battles he doesn’t see them winning.
I'm gonna miss these emprearyn videos so much while we go to acotar but IM READY!!
Yesss, us too on both fronts!!
nicole your shirt is everything
I have a theory about italics-- because in Violets' dreams the venin gives major Xaden parallels. In Ch 61 when Violet is training with Felix, he tells Violet that in regards to bringing the Riders to Aretia she wielded Xaden. "You wielded him." The word him is in italics. And then in 63 the venin ranting to Violet and Cat in the courtyard says "It'll be so much fun for him to wield you." once again, him is in italics. Rebecca Yarros doesn't do anything without reason. Anyone else catch this?
I'm surprised it seems like no one is talking more about the stones from Dunness River and the fact that it confines Venin's ability to channel. Now that some of the ground around Basgiath has been drained, I think we're going to see them use that drained ground in the next book (Venin prison??).
P.S. I've started reading acotar in preperation for the new episodes! :)
That dual “womp womp” was so satisfying lol
54:08 shout out to andarna... She finally gets to eat someone
I bounce between RUclips and Spotify listening to yall depending on what I'm doing. Totally just stopped everything to switch over and see The barbie section lol 😂
Maybe lira had 2 dragons like violet, and the other journal writer had her 7th breed dragon killed so that the wards couldn't be made again, hence the "i lost evrrything" comment 😢😢 would explain why andarnas egg was left behind 50 years before the events of the 6 just in case! Lira's journal shows that she wants to help everyone just like violet, maybe lira was the mind if a scribe/heart of a rider at the time of the first 6. Or even violet is a reincarnation of lira 😆😆
When Violet said to her squad " we don't die today" or whatever and they all said it back EXCEPT Sawyer who shook his head and I knew that meant something was going to happen to him. glad he didn't die though
I’ve been screaming at the top of my lungs every time you called him Sage. You girls were even starting to confuse me, like last episode I was like “wait, maybe I’m wrong, maybe they are different venins.” I’m so relieved you finally realized he’s a general lol
Great video ladies!
Thank you!!
I love the Anastasia reference
Have you considered the fact that after resin, the sage might’ve been been promoted to general where is, he might’ve started as a sage at the beginning of the book but by this battle, he was then promoted to general in between page one and here
Yes! What is the signet of the hungry major on the left from their initial meeting with Melgren!?
1:33:46 - in my ebook of Iron Flame Jesinia and Cerella's surnames are not the same - they are written as Jesinia NEilwart and Cerella NIelwart - the placement of the letters I and E is different: can someone check their copy and tell me?
My physical copy has it the same as your ebook.
Thank you @@insleyohana88 :)
I can see a situation where Tairn or Sgaeyl dies sacrificing themselves to save Andarna, and it having nothing to do with Violet / Xaden. Xaden would live as he is no longer bound to Sgaeyl, and Violet lives through her bond with Andarna
The General is waiting for Xaden, because he knows that Xaden is the key to get to Violet. At the cliffs of Dralor, the General looks from Violet to Xaden. I think the General sees that Violet loves Xaden (maybe one of the Venin has the power to hear the conversation they were having?) and realized that he can eventually use Xaden to "wield" Violet and that is the only way to get her to turn. She is the ultimate prize, but he is the tool they intend to use.
The venin cryptic he is come , or the we will deliver you, or what ever they say . Is very much giving the assassins at the beginning of the book the whole “ secrets die with the people who keep them” and I can’t un think it .
In my head, I imagine that the killing of the Poromiel King by a venin was the catalyst for the Tyrrish Rebellion (apostasy).
I just happen to be rewatching the Divergent movies (yeah I’m with you don’t get me started on the shit ending) but it made me think of Four and his mom.***SPOILER****
His mom was the leader of the Fractionless and wanted him for her plans.
I’m thinking the same thing for Xaden and his mom being venin
I’m doing my reread with fourth wing ch. 36 “A wyvern dives only to climb again with a human leg hanging from between its teeth.” This wyverns love eating human legs.
1:24:35 major afendra...possible Papa Sorrengail alias!
Can we get a recipe for dad’s Christmas quiche?
Considering Violet and Xaden are bonded through their dragons its like a 4 (signets) for 2 (people) deal.
I have theory about the corspondence and the translation that Jesinia of these storys. These two books are writen in first person. there has to be a reason for this. 1 violet had a dairy because how else can Jesinia know all of this. 2 Violet is allive and told her, but even Violet can't be able to remember everyting that happen so still she must have kept a dairy of page.
Is it coincidental that the dragons who gave up their hatching grounds are the GREEN dragons and the basic wyverns breathe GREEN fire?
Picture sawyer with a villian killing sword in the fake leg lol
Could they want Xaden so badly because his mom is a venin leader or something? It’s giving divergent with Four and his mom. It definitely could be and probably is because he’s so powerful but I’m also wondering about his mom!
Just listened for 30 more seconds and you guys literally brought this theory up 😂
rip lexi's barbies
I don’t think this is true - but … it’s emphasized in 4th wing that there are fewer and fewer dragons bonding - any possibility that dragons are going bad then helping to create the wyvern and the color they breath is the color dragon that gave them life.
Xaden mentions murdering people who came in between him and Violet in his POV, from that I think that the others will be aware that he is Venin. Who was murdered?
I think the bad breath dragons are connected to the wyvern... like the dark weilders can use them to create the wyvern in some way! Something about the rune stones in the seemingly dead ones at the border.... maybe there's a connected stone in the bad breath dragons that allows the wyvern to steal their magic idk but there is somethingggg 😂😅
Is the reason the sage is in the dream and general is in real life that is this is a different timeline? I know that the Nolan epigraph indicates that epigraph was from a different time period… Maybe those are flashbacks to a previous time?
“Nothing is safe”
-He was beheaded and laid dead-
“BuT hE COulD be A VeNin!”
Wait is it for real confirmed that xadens mom is a venin?? Or just a theory/ strong theory?
Just a theory a lot of people believe! (Personally, we lean more toward her not being a venin)
37:00 my foreshadow for this topic is that ridoc and sawyer have now both been injured and that Rebecca is gonna kill Rhiannon.
Sort of like how Jk Rowling took George’s ear but killed Fred. With her military husband, we know she killed Liam because her husband says your friends don’t always come back. I feel like she’s definitely gonna take one of the squad members for sure. Probably in the last book or something.
one doubt..jack killed bide his dragon right..but he didnt die...which shows venin can stay alive without their dragons if they are riders and their bond to the dragons is severed...how does one even become a venin tho...like do they just draw from the source and kind of sell their soul?...so xaden is a venin does that sever his bond with sygale? cuz that wouldnt ensure him being alive...if all of this is true then naolin i.e, tarin's earlier rider mightve made a deal with venins to keep brendan alive and became a venin..which in turn severed his bond to tarin..which left tarin devastated and betrayed...correct me if i am wrong anywhere
I think it time manipulation
I hate how for both books you guys talk about how "The dragons smell like sulfur or smell bad so their owners are venin" but when it comes to andarna you just convienently just drop that whole idea and don't mention it at all. Yes their breath smells because they breath fire. It has nothing to do with venin
Sorry about the confusion, we acknowledge sulfur doesn't equal bad breath and it's associated with fire because yes, dragons breathe fire. And then when Andarna's breath smells like sulfur, it's foreshadowing for her about to breathe fire... That's not connected to any hunches that bad dragon breath might associate with venin.