We think a lot about Violet's trauma and forget about Xaden's in this book because we're not in his head. And yes, in the first part of the book he acts very overprotective but we have to remember that he saw Violet fall from Tairn's back between life and death and Xaden sat by her side for THREE DAYS without knowing if Violet would survive. Xaden has never been in love before, he doesn't know how to deal with this feeling and we see throughout the book that he is afraid of losing Violet and he even says in one part: “I need you to be able to defend yourself no matter what happens. You’re not the only one with bad dreams, you know.”
Exactly! My heart just breaks for Xaden ❤ he’s lost so many people and had so much pressure on his shoulders and then he almost looses the first person he’s let himself love ❤
I completely agree. Young and in love in one thing, but this is a complex relationship and I think Yarros does a great job of exploring those complexities.
This is just a random side note: I am so happy to see you guys get sponsorships!! You both out so much into the is podcast and it’s great to see that you are *hopefully* earning some money for all your time & energy spent!
Really really appreciate this!! Sponsorships are very new for us and we're so excited as they hugely help us work toward making this our full-time careers. Because right now, having another job AND this is... a lot lol. So THANK YOU!!
My day has officially becomes 10x better now that I've seen the facial reactions of you guys saying these things since I listened to everything on google podcasts because there's always an energy you get when you see your guys's facial reactions and interactions makes it feel like we are part of the conversation!!!
There's a part when Varrish is interrogating Violet where he says: “I'm sure you think he's indestructible, but let me assure you, I was lucky enough to glimpse the most powerful rider of your generation fumble his shields like a novice once . It was for less than a second, but that was all I needed to see what it would take to shatter him." Maybe it was when Xaden read Varrish's intentions and Varrish saw Xaden's weakness.
Or maybe his weakness is Violet and during her interrogation Varrish is waiting for Xaden to show up so it can turn into a very real interrogation. I wonder if this second was while they kissed or hat sex …
I took it 100% as that. They have called Violet and Xaden as the most powerful riders so I just thought he was calling Xaden out for coming to save Violet… also I think they were on the nose of having to loosen your wards if you want to mind read.
I for 1 really appreciate seeing the outbursts and the PTSD. I feel seen, b/c I have PTSD and I wasn’t the greatest person to the people around me with how I was dealing with things. So I really really related to violet in this book, b/c you can be surrounded by your closest people and still feel completely alone. You cling to the people who share the horrible experience b/c no one else understands. I just love how Rebecca wrote the negative side of PTSD and how violet dealt with it all
I really want Rebecca to explain this better because she threw this information into one sentence during the book and didn't touch on the subject again
Omg I was dying at the part that says 'We don't know if Devera knows how to use a printing press' and just imagined her having a meltdown trying to get a printer to work and facing a paper jam. Devera we know your pain we've all been there.
My theory is Vi is always saying that Xaden is her gravity and in her dream the sage takes away her gravity. And Xaden is now venin which essentially would take her gravity away because Vi feels safe with him and now he’s become something she’s supposed to fear so I don’t think Xaden is the sage if anything I think the sage could potentially be one of the original six/seven. Bare with me here we know that you can be bonded with a dragon and be venin so what if the sage was the seventh dragon rider and you know turned venin, and the other six basically kept it a secret which is why there’s no mention of there being a seventh anything. Also if this is the case it would make so much sense why wyvern were created because the sage had a dragon and maybe the dragon died and now this sage has all this power but can’t fly anymore so he created wyvern so he wouldn’t be at a disadvantage also would make another reason why our little golden (not so golden anymore ) baby waited CENTURIES to hatch. It would also make sense why he’s been waiting for another lightning wielder maybe he was a lightning wielder (assuming you lose your signet if your dragon dies) and knows how powerful it would be to have one on your side (other than the obvious reasons) Which could be why he went after Xaden cause all the more reason for Vi to join the dark side. Cause Fucking Jack could have been spying and potentially told said sage about their relationship. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
This makes SO much sense to me… my first thought about the sage when he told Vi in the dream that he has waited centuries for someone like her, was this guy is one of the first six (or maybe is the seventh?). So glad someone had the same train of thought!
I really want Aaric and Sloane together. It be so poetic - the king's son and the daughter of the revolution did we even see Nolon's wife in this book?
The amount of joy that this podcast is bringing me is unbelievable. I’m trying so hard to get my bestie to read fourth wing so I can have someone to talk about it with but in the mean time y’all are filling the bestie role! lol
Don’t forget about Nolon’s wife, Winifred! SHE is the expert in potions/tinctures. Where is she in all of this? Isn’t it logical that SHE is the one who is creating all these venin and dragon-blocking serums? It’s not just Nolon, it’s both of them.
Yeah! We need like a Riorson family tree or something because it was also mentioned in iron flame that the reason leadership didn’t look very far into a potential second signet for xaden because sgaeyls previous rider was thought to be an uncle or something and not his grandfather. But we know it was actually his grandfather and because of the nobility aspect it complicates things (for the line of succession purposes) There’s a lot of Riorson family drama we need further details on!
Are we sure the dream is Violet's and not Xaden's? 👀 At the end when the Sage shows up, Xaden says he's there for him, not Violet. We know Xaden is capable of pushing his thoughts to Violet, did he push that dream to Violet and she just thinks it's her dream? Or are they both having those dreams and the venin are after both of them because together "they are so powerful that command could simply not let them exist" and they are the ultimate weapon for the venin. Or Xaden is the next Sam Cortland and I will absolutely die and riot. I wonder if the venin have a collective concious and that's how Jack knows things and Colonel Aetos provided the lure boxes.
Those dreams were confusing! We know they want violet because of her lightning but why xaden? What does he know that we don’t that’s made him think they were after him? I was thinking the same thing in regards to the collective consciousness. Like the how the mating bond connects violet and xaden but with the venin like a venin bond or something But as far as the xaden and SamCortland thing I cannot even let my self consider the possibility I would be devastated beyond repair❤
@debbieturk9241 why did I think it was just a collective conscious between the specific venin and their wyvern they created? 😆🤦♀️ I've read Fourth Wing so many times and my brain did not make the connection that it's a hive mind between ALL of the venin.
I struggle to understand so much hate for Dain. So, he is a "by the book" kind of guy. A significant part of the population is like that and that is something that make him less appealing but hating that characteristic is a bit excessive. He is also overprotective of Violent in the beginning and appears to not believe in her ability to survive, to a large extent, Violent has that type of relationship with Sloane. Finally, stealing a memory from Violet in order to confirm that Xaden had "irregular" activities is far from a noble action but is reasonable to think that he did not know the impact of his action. So I do not see this as a redemption history for Dain, he was trained to find Xanden and Co as suspicious, he participated willingly in trying to understand what Xaden was doing and those actions were wrong, he understood that he did not knew the reasons for the actions taken and felt betrayed and started cooperating with the other side - does not appear reason for so much hate.
i am the type who will definitely need to recap before the third book comes out so this show is soooo helpful im def going to relisten to these when it comes time for book 3
I am loving the Harry Potter comparisons because I thought about so many paralells between that story and this one while I was reading. I haven't seen a lot of people making HP comparisons, but I love it.
Markham might be more akind to Snape because of his connection with this father. How much history did Markham and her father have? He wanted the truth to be out , but he was killed. Although Snape's character is much deeper and morally grey. I think that Markham has some Snape-like qualitilies. Why did he train Violet? Was he intending to use her ... she was smart ... would she have figured out this had she not been a rider? She would have questioned everything at some point if she had been a scribe too ... her mother stated this I believe.
Love love love! My gooood, love this podcast so much ❤ Thank you, girls, for amazing emotions! When living literally in the other part of the world from you and not having your time zone, was checking ApplePodcasts all morning 😁Stick to your idea of Xaden being the venin from Violet's dream and OOOOH GOD don't want and simultaneously badly want that to come true 😂
it would make sense because remember in FW, Jack fucking Barlowe mocks Violet for thinking the precognition was a thing. That could very well be what her second signet is, Violet needs to know what's going on, it plays to her scribe mind, what would help make battle plans or help try and find a cure for xaden? seeing the future.
Love love love your show ! You give the best deep dives ! I very respectfully mention that the word “palladium” is pronounced (puh lay dee uhm) - I also struggle with pronouncing words sometimes and I am obsessed with using google to help !
I agree there isn't a 7th rider... When Tairn in IF describes Andarnas body features, and the wings being/looking different, (his concern brought tears to my eyes), also her not ever being able to bear a rider got me thinking. What if all the "camouflage" dragons looked like Andarna 600 some years ago, it just wasn't public knowledge because not many saw the dragons unless they were needed? - Just like Andarna says to Violet and Tairn: "I'll be where I'm needed", and later on she blended in with mountain - ... Tairn at that moment doesn't know who and what she is, he thinks she's just a regular black Dragon with a disability (because of Vi's condition we sympathized that they have an even stronger bond now, bcs they are both challenged, and Rebecca did not correct us obviously), the Elders never revealed her secret and Tairn has no reason to suspect otherwise, same with us. Her abilities are revealed somewhat, she was able to burn the Venin, when no other dragon ever was able to do so. I think that was the key to winning the war all those years ago. I stand by my theory until Yarros proves me wrong 😁. And I think I wrote a similar thought under a different video of yours, it's about Violets second Signet - If Andarna burns Venin than Violet's power is being Fireproof. We see the evidence of that on Conscription Day in IF when Solas burned the new Cadets. Although we all chucked it up to her wearing the Dragon scale armor Mira had made for V not thinking anything of it. It didn't make sense to me, there were no other marks on her, when Violet's summer uniform fell off of her scorched in pieces. There should be some small burns at least... And Rebecca mentions in an interview that Violet's either using her second Signet or its heavily implied what it is. I will have to rewatch the interview again to make sure 😊. Thanks for this deep dive, I like to hear your theories, if i have more I'll definitely comment. I just started watching your podcast, and I am also rereading the books for the 3rd time.
Awesome thought! I definitely believe that Andarna is the weapon that ended the venin 600 years ago I just don’t know in what capacity yet. I know there have been theories about Violet sacrificing herself for everyone and dying divergent style (terrible ending IMO) or even Xaden dying (also unacceptable) but I think Andarna is going to be the “great and terrible price” that will be paid at the end. I feel like there is a reason no one knows about the 7th breed of dragons and maybe it’s because they don’t really exist or hatch until needed. Epigraph from FW chapter 37 But it was the third brother, who commanded the sky to surrender its greatest power, who finally vanquished his jealous sibling at a great and terrible price. -“The Origin,” The Fables of the Barren
@@marilliza That's a great thought! I do not accept Violets nor Xaden's sacrifice 😫... I am going to look at the 37th chapter when I get to my book! Thank you.
This will be edited as work doesn't like when we're on devices, but hear me out and correct me if needed, I don't think those are violet's dreams. Venin talking to violet in person: you have all the power of the sky Sage taking in the dream: you have all that power (xaden is also very powerful) The sage said the person would turn for love, xaden turned because he felt violet dying. Every time she wakes up from the nightmares, she turns to xaden for comfort. He can give her visions of what he experiences through the bond, which is limited by distance. Then there is the fact that I believe that his mom was venin (political reasons) and the sage is his grandfather/uncle/mom's mentor - which would give the sage a connection to contact xaden (depending on how sending works in this world). Or - the sage is using bad marketing and the dream is 'dear current resident' because of they get one, they will most likely get both xaden and violet.
She dreams about them when she's at Basgiath, and he's in Samara. But if it's her 'pure power' manifesting she could be 'seeing' Imogens dreams whose bedroom is above hers 🤷🏻♀️ (a bit far fetched) I think part 2 are Xadens' though.
And remember there’s a point (I believe it’s when she’s on the nav assignment with her squad) that she says she hasn’t had nightmares in a few nights and I took that as she hasn’t been having nightmares because she’s been far from anyway who was at Resson. So yeah… I’m on this theory train with you guys, these dreams are not hers and she’s a “type” of inntinnsic too.
Oh you are going to LOVE Divine Rivals! I absolutely loved every minute and I am halfway through Ruthless Vows (book 2/2 that released on 12/26). I don’t want it to end 🥹. I hope you chat about it either here or in the discord; Roman and Iris live in my mind rent free 🥰
I think Lexi is on point with the comment about Vi and Dain's relationship. I was so sick of her telling us he was her bestie, the kid that climbed trees with her 🙄. We almost never see this relationship, except a little glimpse when they are translating the diary. It was such a change from the ususal Dain who seems like he does not know Vi at all most of the time.That is why D is so easy to hate and we cannot connect with Vi's need to explain /forgive his behavior in FW
The comment about Dain and civilians, I don't think is his signet that hurts their minds but Varrish and his methods, what if he is training other riders for torture? and then he just calls Dain to search at some point. For the way Dain reacts, it doesn't look like he has experience enough of the bad or cruel side, and then is the comment about ethincs in Battle Brief, I don't think he would hurt civilians for practice.
So it could be different because it’s a mind power and not a physical power BUT I think you have to intentionally think about using your signet. Even last year as Dain was a second year, he wouldn’t have had it honed in so well to use it unknowingly. We know from Violet that it takes serious concentration to call her lightning, not just wield it to do damage. I think when we talk about Dain reading memories, we see it as Edward Collin’s reading minds and he can do it effortlessly , when I think Dain has to seriously think about wanting to read your memories to be able to pull them. Even concentrate harder to pull a certain memory. Because reading a memory on accident is reading that she ate breakfast or was sneaking in to find her opponent. But it all depends on how mind signets differ from physical ones.
The shielding is interesting, because Varish did say at some point when torturing Violet that he saw Xaden with his shield down at some point. Maybe this is the moment. Also, wouldn't Varish have been suspicious when he didn't see Violet's weaknesses here? Wouldn't he be able to know that they could still channel their dragons? Also, I feel the sage conversation has to have some link to Sgaeyl's decision to bond with Xaden, even though he's a direct relative. I think that her relationship with Andarna may also be closer for a reason. She did bond with Xaden the same year that Andarna was born, right?
I really don’t think Varrish is Venin. In the words of serious black the world isn’t made up of good people and death eaters. I think he was just meant to be our umbridge in this series!
I thought Jack was just locked in there, like he is at the end of the book. I don't think they "let him out" until he is introduced to the class...and I'm guessing he's a second year with his own room
In Fourth Wing, Violet speculated to Colonel Aetos that her father’s research may not have been completed. “The words are as true as I can make them. I know exactly where his notes are.. “ She continued, thinking that because of something in Tiarn’s warning, she kept that to herself. I read this on page 308 of a hardcover edition. And that is the only mention made of them I think. Curious she didn’t try to retrieve them. Also, I wonder if Violet’s dreams could actually be Xaden’s dream. I think that because of Xaden’s dream in the end. And because of the throne encounter where she saw part of their session through his eyes. Could this be alluding to her second signet? This is all new to me so I’m likely further out in left field than I realize. But it’s fun to speculate. I really enjoy your deep dives. Thanks for sharing!!
I think the the dreams Violet sees are actually Xadens! They share the bond and when they sleep maybe their shields slip...and maybe venin mama Riorsen is after Xaden sooo he is getting these dreams and sharing them with Violet by accident!
I'm with you on this one. In chapter 37 -- “Bold choice to move so far from what you perceive as the safety of the wards,” the Sage says, holding me immobile, my feet just inches from the frozen ground of my own personal torture chamber." In chapter 65 -- Xaden said this to Violet "“Good.” He nods. “It’s safer for you here. This is where we should be.” He drags in a shaky breath, then laughs. “You won’t be as scared under the full wards.”"
I think Violet is actually nuclear fusion. Also the correct way to say the names of those metals is: Tel A Dee Um. Pal A Dee Um. Lol that’s how they are pronounced and they are metals. Since you asked in your podcast. lol. I enjoy these theories. What about the fact the vein. That’s been visiting Violet in her dreams has DARK eyes not RED eyes but BLACK eyes. Xaden has Onyx eyes. Which is black! 😳that’s why I think it’s a time traveling Xaden Venin. Also Xaden has mommy issues too. Poor baby. And I HOPE we aren’t getting a Darth Vader Xaden. 😂😂
Chapter 20: "Weightless. He (Xaden) makes me feel totally, completely weightless, like it's possible to fly....because I'm anchored against his chest by one of his strong arms, my feet dangling off the ground." Makes me think of her dreams with the Sage..
I just cannot with Dain in the same way that I cannot with Chaol. They are so rule focused and so sure that they are in the right that even not breaking rules to save someone’s life or invading someone’s privacy for the good of the country all fall under the good to go category for them. Like oh no poor little privileged boy. Not to say they don’t have their own trauma but it’s the way they prioritize that is gross! It’s a foil to the morally gray characters we all love and makes the story all that more enjoyable. Gotta love to hate em.
1:03:57 the torture scene can be the second time If the party scene was the ‘accident’ and he did that on purpose. Very much manipulated by leadership.
This is exactly what I thought! The first time was at the party on accident and the second time was when he purposely read her mind in the torture scene. Now, do I believe Dain may be lying, just, in general? Yes, yes I do. GFDD! That said, Yarros likes his character 🤢 so that may be a clear sign that he is a good guy, after all. Only time will tell… 🤔
I think the reason they didn't want Andarna seen is because she was a hatchling and obviously she no longer is. So her new size and color would give away that feather tails are infact baby dragons and could possess different powers. Which sounds like leadership wants all the power they can get and would take advantage of that knowledge
We already know what Jack fucking Barlows weakness is. He wants power so I think Varish said, here’s the plan we’re infiltrating the college, we’re going to break the ward stone and take over boom ultimate power and Jack was in.
Actually I think that bring Jack back wasn't exactly in the plan right then, I think Markham had to improvize because of what happened on the Battle Brief. Maybe Jack wasn't ready and they didn't succesed, in fact we know they didn't
Do we know what Caroline Ashton's signet is? Maybe she was part of Jack "rehabilitation" with more than just being an accessory because she seemed eager to go to the infirmary.
I’m convinced she’s Venin too. In Fourth Wing, Violet overheard Jack saying “I knew it would work” to Caroline right after she bonded Gleann (she was unbonded at threshing), and if his statement is true about turning Venin right after learning Vi bonded Tairn, he probably convinced Caroline to turn and force the bond. She’s always with him, she was allowed into the infirmary with him (probably because she’s taking the serum too), and she mentions “razing a few Poromish villages” which is a very sketchy thing to say
I wonder what Caroline Ashton´s signet is? Did we ever get any hints towards it? I also thought, do the Venin have some kind of "collective mind"? Just a little bit of thinking in my tiny little brain
Also any thoughts on how Ridoc’s surprise and shock to Dain’s signet the thing that sprouted something in Dain that Varrish is lying and why he then stops trying to reach for Violet?
I would chose daddy X too, sorry sis. OMG I totally buy the half-sibling theory GOD, fucking dammit Dain despite his arc, I'm not ready to forgive him. I do NOT think the Sage is Xaden but I DO think they might be related, same for the general who I honestly think is not dead yet, I am getting paranoid with the dead-not dead people. In RSC, I didn't like that Ridoc did not share a real secret, I think he just deflected the question but not sure why, we don´t know much about them and that was a great opportunity. I think we need to know more about all of them and their lifes before Basgiath. I think we need to extent the phrase: "GOD, fucking dammit" to Nolon, Jack, Cat and maybe others along the series. With Jack, the thing is that he was a very bad person already so mending his soul would be particularly difficult or impossible, now we suspect that Nolon tried before Jack with another person, and he said there is no cure, because is not an illness and is not broken, so will have to wait for Rebecca to explain this to us. Caroline will play a bigger part in all of this sooner or later, and I am already hating her LOL! I wanna know if the red eyes for venim are like red rimmed eyes or it is around their irises? the latter would make it easier to hide it at the first stages. I LOVE Aaric too, I need to know more about him. Can´t wait to next week episode. P.S: I was analzing your schedule for Iron flame and got paniced, how am I supose to do when HOFAS comes out and my brain shifts to SJM Multiverse when Iron flame would not be over yet? I really don´t know
@ 1h27 about varrish shields. What if he did it on purpose? What if varrish knows that X is an inntinnsic (going here with the theory varrish is a venin and venin know) And he lowered his shields so that X sees that - to push X to get destabilized (because there is nothing he can do about it) And like this X’s shields “fumble” Varrish is like so in love with xaden in chapter 35 - going on and on about how Xaden is the better stronger rider of his generation But he (varrish) managed to see his weakness - just for a second - because his shields fumbled. In chapter 35 - varrish on the bridge of dying did not give anything away. So his shields were rock solid - while dying. I can’t believe he was just walking by them - threatening them - with no shields
Dain thinks he didn't do anything wrong by reading Violet's memories because he was only using his signet, like all other riders do every day. Xaden uses his shadows to get information, Imogen wipes memory, and Body counters signets. How those aren't violations of their privacy? Many riders kill others with their signet. I'm still angry at him for not listening to Violet from day one, but from simple logical viewpoint: this is his signet, using it is not wrong. Don't hate me 😂
I am worried about Garrick. I wonder if Garrick is going to backstab Xaden. We don't see Garrick's and Xadens friendship like that either. I do wonder if the first venin comes from the first 6/7 that the rider went corrupted
Just wanted to give you ladies some feedback. I was really excited when I saw you were doing recaps on chapters in iron Flame however I don't want to listen to it because if I'm only just finished chapter 27 I don't want to know what happens at the end I'm scared to listen to it. And when I finish the book I'm not going to want to come back to listen to this. I want your opinions views everything on those chapters as I'm going along I don't want to have to go back in time after I finish the book. It would be nice if you guys just covered this chapters and anything before those chapters is fine Just not anything after those chapters. I hope that makes sense
While we can understand the frustration of not wanting future chapter spoilers in these recaps, we would lose a big part of our deep dive and theory discussions that make this podcast what it is if we shifted how we cover our spoiler content. If you're interested in revisiting the book when you finish, we'll be here. Hopefully in the future as we grow and create more content, we'll be able to cover fantasy books with different spoiler levels.
We think a lot about Violet's trauma and forget about Xaden's in this book because we're not in his head. And yes, in the first part of the book he acts very overprotective but we have to remember that he saw Violet fall from Tairn's back between life and death and Xaden sat by her side for THREE DAYS without knowing if Violet would survive. Xaden has never been in love before, he doesn't know how to deal with this feeling and we see throughout the book that he is afraid of losing Violet and he even says in one part: “I need you to be able to defend yourself no matter what happens. You’re not the only one with bad dreams, you know.”
Exactly! My heart just breaks for Xaden ❤ he’s lost so many people and had so much pressure on his shoulders and then he almost looses the first person he’s let himself love ❤
Thank you for this comment! You are 100% right!
I completely agree. Young and in love in one thing, but this is a complex relationship and I think Yarros does a great job of exploring those complexities.
This is just a random side note: I am so happy to see you guys get sponsorships!! You both out so much into the is podcast and it’s great to see that you are *hopefully* earning some money for all your time & energy spent!
Really really appreciate this!! Sponsorships are very new for us and we're so excited as they hugely help us work toward making this our full-time careers. Because right now, having another job AND this is... a lot lol. So THANK YOU!!
They threw me off for a second bc they came out of nowhere haha but I agree!
My day has officially becomes 10x better now that I've seen the facial reactions of you guys saying these things since I listened to everything on google podcasts because there's always an energy you get when you see your guys's facial reactions and interactions makes it feel like we are part of the conversation!!!
There's a part when Varrish is interrogating Violet where he says: “I'm sure you think he's indestructible, but let me assure you, I was lucky enough to glimpse the most powerful rider of your generation fumble his shields like a novice once . It was for less than a second, but that was all I needed to see what it would take to shatter him." Maybe it was when Xaden read Varrish's intentions and Varrish saw Xaden's weakness.
Or maybe his weakness is Violet and during her interrogation Varrish is waiting for Xaden to show up so it can turn into a very real interrogation. I wonder if this second was while they kissed or hat sex …
I took it 100% as that. They have called Violet and Xaden as the most powerful riders so I just thought he was calling Xaden out for coming to save Violet… also I think they were on the nose of having to loosen your wards if you want to mind read.
@@lisak3257but Varrish says that Xaden’s shields fumbled for a second and this was the moment he saw Xaden weakness(Violet)
@@marysia19903 I don't think Varrish lied, I think he really saw Xaden's weakness and it's Violet that's why he was so sure he would go and rescue her
That's how I understood it in my reread too
I for 1 really appreciate seeing the outbursts and the PTSD. I feel seen, b/c I have PTSD and I wasn’t the greatest person to the people around me with how I was dealing with things. So I really really related to violet in this book, b/c you can be surrounded by your closest people and still feel completely alone. You cling to the people who share the horrible experience b/c no one else understands. I just love how Rebecca wrote the negative side of PTSD and how violet dealt with it all
Remember violet’s signent isn’t Lightning but it’s Power.
The Venin waited Centuries for a power wielder
I really want Rebecca to explain this better because she threw this information into one sentence during the book and didn't touch on the subject again
Where was this said I’ve completely missed this
@@kelenheller I don’t remember the chapter but it was in one of her lessons with Felix
I can't wait to see what this could be in the next book(s)!
This theory is so sick❤🔥
Omg I was dying at the part that says 'We don't know if Devera knows how to use a printing press' and just imagined her having a meltdown trying to get a printer to work and facing a paper jam. Devera we know your pain we've all been there.
My theory is Vi is always saying that Xaden is her gravity and in her dream the sage takes away her gravity. And Xaden is now venin which essentially would take her gravity away because Vi feels safe with him and now he’s become something she’s supposed to fear so I don’t think Xaden is the sage if anything I think the sage could potentially be one of the original six/seven. Bare with me here we know that you can be bonded with a dragon and be venin so what if the sage was the seventh dragon rider and you know turned venin, and the other six basically kept it a secret which is why there’s no mention of there being a seventh anything. Also if this is the case it would make so much sense why wyvern were created because the sage had a dragon and maybe the dragon died and now this sage has all this power but can’t fly anymore so he created wyvern so he wouldn’t be at a disadvantage also would make another reason why our little golden (not so golden anymore ) baby waited CENTURIES to hatch. It would also make sense why he’s been waiting for another lightning wielder maybe he was a lightning wielder (assuming you lose your signet if your dragon dies) and knows how powerful it would be to have one on your side (other than the obvious reasons) Which could be why he went after Xaden cause all the more reason for Vi to join the dark side. Cause Fucking Jack could have been spying and potentially told said sage about their relationship. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk
This makes SO much sense to me… my first thought about the sage when he told Vi in the dream that he has waited centuries for someone like her, was this guy is one of the first six (or maybe is the seventh?). So glad someone had the same train of thought!
This theory makes so much sense. Oh i just love this whole community❤
I really want Aaric and Sloane together. It be so poetic - the king's son and the daughter of the revolution
did we even see Nolon's wife in this book?
Aaric and Sloane is good, or Aaric and Cat!
I don't believe we do see Winifred in Iron Flame!
I believe off page she gave Violet burn cream after Solas burned a bunch of Third Squad on conscription day
Yes yes yes I ship them so much
Yesss! And I really want to see Aaric to turn into a big role and see what happens there
The amount of joy that this podcast is bringing me is unbelievable. I’m trying so hard to get my bestie to read fourth wing so I can have someone to talk about it with but in the mean time y’all are filling the bestie role! lol
Don’t forget about Nolon’s wife, Winifred! SHE is the expert in potions/tinctures. Where is she in all of this? Isn’t it logical that SHE is the one who is creating all these venin and dragon-blocking serums? It’s not just Nolon, it’s both of them.
omg wait this is brilliant...
Downloading now! My flight takes off in 30 minutes, so happy this is how I'll be spending it!
Yay!! Have a great flight 🙌
Ah what a way to start my morning! 🥰 always look forward to these deep dives!
Love it!!
HEAR ME OUT!! The “cousin” that looks SO MUCH like Xaden isn’t actually a “cousin”😳 just a thought..
I was thinking the same thing!
Yeah! We need like a Riorson family tree or something because it was also mentioned in iron flame that the reason leadership didn’t look very far into a potential second signet for xaden because sgaeyls previous rider was thought to be an uncle or something and not his grandfather. But we know it was actually his grandfather and because of the nobility aspect it complicates things (for the line of succession purposes) There’s a lot of Riorson family drama we need further details on!
@@madelynmohr6872 RIGHT!
I think Bodhi might be his half-brother, but they don't know.
@@debbieturk9241 EXACTLY!
The second I saw the notification I knew my day is going to get a thousand times better
Aww yay!! Love to hear that so much!
You girls are amazing!!! I can’t wait to follow your podcast real time when Ônix Storm is released! 🐉🤩
the quote about being unbreakable means so much to me as a person with eds
Love this Podcast so much. Just switched job. I am now driving alot,you help the commute. Also We need more with Tairn and Sgaeyl....
Yay love to hear it! And yes yes yes, more of these two dragon lovebirds
Are we sure the dream is Violet's and not Xaden's? 👀 At the end when the Sage shows up, Xaden says he's there for him, not Violet. We know Xaden is capable of pushing his thoughts to Violet, did he push that dream to Violet and she just thinks it's her dream? Or are they both having those dreams and the venin are after both of them because together "they are so powerful that command could simply not let them exist" and they are the ultimate weapon for the venin.
Or Xaden is the next Sam Cortland and I will absolutely die and riot.
I wonder if the venin have a collective concious and that's how Jack knows things and Colonel Aetos provided the lure boxes.
Those dreams were confusing! We know they want violet because of her lightning but why xaden? What does he know that we don’t that’s made him think they were after him?
I was thinking the same thing in regards to the collective consciousness. Like the how the mating bond connects violet and xaden but with the venin like a venin bond or something
But as far as the xaden and SamCortland thing I cannot even let my self consider the possibility I would be devastated beyond repair❤
They have a 'hive mind'. That's been discussed in Fourth Wing. It's how they adapt to their fighting so fast (like the Borg. Lol)
@debbieturk9241 why did I think it was just a collective conscious between the specific venin and their wyvern they created? 😆🤦♀️ I've read Fourth Wing so many times and my brain did not make the connection that it's a hive mind between ALL of the venin.
I struggle to understand so much hate for Dain. So, he is a "by the book" kind of guy. A significant part of the population is like that and that is something that make him less appealing but hating that characteristic is a bit excessive. He is also overprotective of Violent in the beginning and appears to not believe in her ability to survive, to a large extent, Violent has that type of relationship with Sloane. Finally, stealing a memory from Violet in order to confirm that Xaden had "irregular" activities is far from a noble action but is reasonable to think that he did not know the impact of his action. So I do not see this as a redemption history for Dain, he was trained to find Xanden and Co as suspicious, he participated willingly in trying to understand what Xaden was doing and those actions were wrong, he understood that he did not knew the reasons for the actions taken and felt betrayed and started cooperating with the other side - does not appear reason for so much hate.
When I read the line about having to mend civillians after Dain‘s practice I thought about Nolon’s line about having to mend a soul…
I love long episodes!
And listening to you talk about this book is as exciting as reading it for the first time
I'm so glad I found you guys😍💜
i am the type who will definitely need to recap before the third book comes out so this show is soooo helpful im def going to relisten to these when it comes time for book 3
I am loving the Harry Potter comparisons because I thought about so many paralells between that story and this one while I was reading. I haven't seen a lot of people making HP comparisons, but I love it.
Markham might be more akind to Snape because of his connection with this father. How much history did Markham and her father have? He wanted the truth to be out , but he was killed. Although Snape's character is much deeper and morally grey. I think that Markham has some Snape-like qualitilies. Why did he train Violet? Was he intending to use her ... she was smart ... would she have figured out this had she not been a rider? She would have questioned everything at some point if she had been a scribe too ... her mother stated this I believe.
Love love love! My gooood, love this podcast so much ❤ Thank you, girls, for amazing emotions! When living literally in the other part of the world from you and not having your time zone, was checking ApplePodcasts all morning 😁Stick to your idea of Xaden being the venin from Violet's dream and OOOOH GOD don't want and simultaneously badly want that to come true 😂
What if Violet can see the future through her dreams and that’s her second signet?! And that’s why she’s possibly seeing Xaden as the Sage?! 👀
This is what I was thinking!
That's what I was thinking!!
it would make sense because remember in FW, Jack fucking Barlowe mocks Violet for thinking the precognition was a thing. That could very well be what her second signet is, Violet needs to know what's going on, it plays to her scribe mind, what would help make battle plans or help try and find a cure for xaden? seeing the future.
2:00:56 viscount also gave violet more books. She gets them from xaden after one of his drops at cordyn
I think Bohdi is his actual brother and thats why his mom left
Love love love your show ! You give the best deep dives ! I very respectfully mention that the word “palladium” is pronounced (puh lay dee uhm) - I also struggle with pronouncing words sometimes and I am obsessed with using google to help !
1:40:14 Cue.. Nicole's mind being blown😂
I agree there isn't a 7th rider... When Tairn in IF describes Andarnas body features, and the wings being/looking different, (his concern brought tears to my eyes), also her not ever being able to bear a rider got me thinking. What if all the "camouflage" dragons looked like Andarna 600 some years ago, it just wasn't public knowledge because not many saw the dragons unless they were needed? - Just like Andarna says to Violet and Tairn: "I'll be where I'm needed", and later on she blended in with mountain - ... Tairn at that moment doesn't know who and what she is, he thinks she's just a regular black Dragon with a disability (because of Vi's condition we sympathized that they have an even stronger bond now, bcs they are both challenged, and Rebecca did not correct us obviously), the Elders never revealed her secret and Tairn has no reason to suspect otherwise, same with us. Her abilities are revealed somewhat, she was able to burn the Venin, when no other dragon ever was able to do so. I think that was the key to winning the war all those years ago. I stand by my theory until Yarros proves me wrong 😁.
And I think I wrote a similar thought under a different video of yours, it's about Violets second Signet - If Andarna burns Venin than Violet's power is being Fireproof. We see the evidence of that on Conscription Day in IF when Solas burned the new Cadets. Although we all chucked it up to her wearing the Dragon scale armor Mira had made for V not thinking anything of it. It didn't make sense to me, there were no other marks on her, when Violet's summer uniform fell off of her scorched in pieces. There should be some small burns at least... And Rebecca mentions in an interview that Violet's either using her second Signet or its heavily implied what it is. I will have to rewatch the interview again to make sure 😊. Thanks for this deep dive, I like to hear your theories, if i have more I'll definitely comment. I just started watching your podcast, and I am also rereading the books for the 3rd time.
Awesome thought! I definitely believe that Andarna is the weapon that ended the venin 600 years ago I just don’t know in what capacity yet. I know there have been theories about Violet sacrificing herself for everyone and dying divergent style (terrible ending IMO) or even Xaden dying (also unacceptable) but I think Andarna is going to be the “great and terrible price” that will be paid at the end.
I feel like there is a reason no one knows about the 7th breed of dragons and maybe it’s because they don’t really exist or hatch until needed.
Epigraph from FW chapter 37
But it was the third brother, who commanded the sky to surrender its greatest power, who finally vanquished his jealous sibling at a great and terrible price. -“The Origin,” The Fables of the Barren
@@marilliza That's a great thought! I do not accept Violets nor Xaden's sacrifice 😫... I am going to look at the 37th chapter when I get to my book! Thank you.
This will be edited as work doesn't like when we're on devices, but hear me out and correct me if needed, I don't think those are violet's dreams.
Venin talking to violet in person: you have all the power of the sky
Sage taking in the dream: you have all that power (xaden is also very powerful)
The sage said the person would turn for love, xaden turned because he felt violet dying.
Every time she wakes up from the nightmares, she turns to xaden for comfort. He can give her visions of what he experiences through the bond, which is limited by distance.
Then there is the fact that I believe that his mom was venin (political reasons) and the sage is his grandfather/uncle/mom's mentor - which would give the sage a connection to contact xaden (depending on how sending works in this world).
Or - the sage is using bad marketing and the dream is 'dear current resident' because of they get one, they will most likely get both xaden and violet.
Does she only dream about the venin when she’s with Xaden? I haven’t gone back to look, but that would be interesting.
@@trishaprehoda2421 trying to figure that out, that's the biggest hole I can see.
She dreams about them when she's at Basgiath, and he's in Samara. But if it's her 'pure power' manifesting she could be 'seeing' Imogens dreams whose bedroom is above hers 🤷🏻♀️ (a bit far fetched)
I think part 2 are Xadens' though.
And remember there’s a point (I believe it’s when she’s on the nav assignment with her squad) that she says she hasn’t had nightmares in a few nights and I took that as she hasn’t been having nightmares because she’s been far from anyway who was at Resson. So yeah… I’m on this theory train with you guys, these dreams are not hers and she’s a “type” of inntinnsic too.
@@flavianunez6276 I think she can amplify or borrow other signets as her 2nd signet, and I think this is proof of her borrowing Xaden’s signet.
Maybe the unnamed Venin is Xadens brother/ half -brother??
Oh you are going to LOVE Divine Rivals! I absolutely loved every minute and I am halfway through Ruthless Vows (book 2/2 that released on 12/26). I don’t want it to end 🥹. I hope you chat about it either here or in the discord; Roman and Iris live in my mind rent free 🥰
I think Lexi is on point with the comment about Vi and Dain's relationship. I was so sick of her telling us he was her bestie, the kid that climbed trees with her 🙄. We almost never see this relationship, except a little glimpse when they are translating the diary. It was such a change from the ususal Dain who seems like he does not know Vi at all most of the time.That is why D is so easy to hate and we cannot connect with Vi's need to explain /forgive his behavior in FW
The comment about Dain and civilians, I don't think is his signet that hurts their minds but Varrish and his methods, what if he is training other riders for torture? and then he just calls Dain to search at some point. For the way Dain reacts, it doesn't look like he has experience enough of the bad or cruel side, and then is the comment about ethincs in Battle Brief, I don't think he would hurt civilians for practice.
So it could be different because it’s a mind power and not a physical power BUT I think you have to intentionally think about using your signet. Even last year as Dain was a second year, he wouldn’t have had it honed in so well to use it unknowingly. We know from Violet that it takes serious concentration to call her lightning, not just wield it to do damage. I think when we talk about Dain reading memories, we see it as Edward Collin’s reading minds and he can do it effortlessly , when I think Dain has to seriously think about wanting to read your memories to be able to pull them. Even concentrate harder to pull a certain memory. Because reading a memory on accident is reading that she ate breakfast or was sneaking in to find her opponent. But it all depends on how mind signets differ from physical ones.
The shielding is interesting, because Varish did say at some point when torturing Violet that he saw Xaden with his shield down at some point. Maybe this is the moment.
Also, wouldn't Varish have been suspicious when he didn't see Violet's weaknesses here? Wouldn't he be able to know that they could still channel their dragons?
Also, I feel the sage conversation has to have some link to Sgaeyl's decision to bond with Xaden, even though he's a direct relative. I think that her relationship with Andarna may also be closer for a reason. She did bond with Xaden the same year that Andarna was born, right?
I really don’t think Varrish is Venin. In the words of serious black the world isn’t made up of good people and death eaters. I think he was just meant to be our umbridge in this series!
I thought Jack was just locked in there, like he is at the end of the book. I don't think they "let him out" until he is introduced to the class...and I'm guessing he's a second year with his own room
In Fourth Wing, Violet speculated to Colonel Aetos that her father’s research may not have been completed. “The words are as true as I can make them. I know exactly where his notes are.. “ She continued, thinking that because of something in Tiarn’s warning, she kept that to herself. I read this on page 308 of a hardcover edition. And that is the only mention made of them I think. Curious she didn’t try to retrieve them.
Also, I wonder if Violet’s dreams could actually be Xaden’s dream. I think that because of Xaden’s dream in the end. And because of the throne encounter where she saw part of their session through his eyes. Could this be alluding to her second signet? This is all new to me so I’m likely further out in left field than I realize. But it’s fun to speculate.
I really enjoy your deep dives. Thanks for sharing!!
Eragon don't forget the OG movie with a dragon movie! !!
I think the the dreams Violet sees are actually Xadens! They share the bond and when they sleep maybe their shields slip...and maybe venin mama Riorsen is after Xaden sooo he is getting these dreams and sharing them with Violet by accident!
I'm with you on this one.
In chapter 37 -- “Bold choice to move so far from what you perceive as the safety of the wards,” the Sage says, holding me immobile, my feet just inches from
the frozen ground of my own personal torture chamber."
In chapter 65 -- Xaden said this to Violet "“Good.” He nods. “It’s safer for you here. This is where we should be.” He drags in a shaky breath, then laughs. “You won’t be as scared under the full wards.”"
I think Violet is actually nuclear fusion. Also the correct way to say the names of those metals is: Tel A Dee Um. Pal A Dee Um. Lol that’s how they are pronounced and they are metals. Since you asked in your podcast. lol. I enjoy these theories. What about the fact the vein. That’s been visiting Violet in her dreams has DARK eyes not RED eyes but BLACK eyes. Xaden has Onyx eyes. Which is black! 😳that’s why I think it’s a time traveling Xaden Venin. Also Xaden has mommy issues too. Poor baby. And I HOPE we aren’t getting a Darth Vader Xaden. 😂😂
Chapter 20: "Weightless. He (Xaden) makes me feel totally, completely weightless, like it's possible to fly....because I'm anchored against his chest by one of his strong arms, my feet dangling off the ground." Makes me think of her dreams with the Sage..
I just cannot with Dain in the same way that I cannot with Chaol. They are so rule focused and so sure that they are in the right that even not breaking rules to save someone’s life or invading someone’s privacy for the good of the country all fall under the good to go category for them. Like oh no poor little privileged boy. Not to say they don’t have their own trauma but it’s the way they prioritize that is gross! It’s a foil to the morally gray characters we all love and makes the story all that more enjoyable. Gotta love to hate em.
I could totally see it was Markham that killed Papa S cause they both are scribes
What if Mira being there would make it easier to kill both Xaden and her at the same time?
I wonder if the “citizens” that are being used as practice for Dain are the citizens of Resin.
1:03:57 the torture scene can be the second time If the party scene was the ‘accident’ and he did that on purpose. Very much manipulated by leadership.
This is exactly what I thought! The first time was at the party on accident and the second time was when he purposely read her mind in the torture scene. Now, do I believe Dain may be lying, just, in general? Yes, yes I do. GFDD! That said, Yarros likes his character 🤢 so that may be a clear sign that he is a good guy, after all. Only time will tell… 🤔
I think the reason they didn't want Andarna seen is because she was a hatchling and obviously she no longer is. So her new size and color would give away that feather tails are infact baby dragons and could possess different powers. Which sounds like leadership wants all the power they can get and would take advantage of that knowledge
I dont know why but something just snipped in place for me, when you mensioned Mira killing the first born prince 😂🤔
I'm missing something. How could jack be a Venin while under the wards at Baisgaith?
Turns out the wards don't entirely block Venin magic, just limits it.
We already know what Jack fucking Barlows weakness is. He wants power so I think Varish said, here’s the plan we’re infiltrating the college, we’re going to break the ward stone and take over boom ultimate power and Jack was in.
Actually I think that bring Jack back wasn't exactly in the plan right then, I think Markham had to improvize because of what happened on the Battle Brief. Maybe Jack wasn't ready and they didn't succesed, in fact we know they didn't
Nicole, i love your causal “R” rolls, they’re so satisfying🤣
The first time Dain takes the memory is by mistake. The second time was when she was being interrogated by Varrish. So he has only done it twice.
That we know of for sure.
Nicole have you read in the likely event by RY cuz I can think of a few scenes in that book that you would absolutely love 🤭
Immediately adds it to TBR
Noted
@fantasyfangirls yes! I recently read it and started rereading it 😅.
Do we know what Caroline Ashton's signet is? Maybe she was part of Jack "rehabilitation" with more than just being an accessory because she seemed eager to go to the infirmary.
I’m convinced she’s Venin too. In Fourth Wing, Violet overheard Jack saying “I knew it would work” to Caroline right after she bonded Gleann (she was unbonded at threshing), and if his statement is true about turning Venin right after learning Vi bonded Tairn, he probably convinced Caroline to turn and force the bond. She’s always with him, she was allowed into the infirmary with him (probably because she’s taking the serum too), and she mentions “razing a few Poromish villages” which is a very sketchy thing to say
Am I the only one who didn’t catch onto Liam’s family is known for explosives until listening to this episode ?
I wonder what Caroline Ashton´s signet is? Did we ever get any hints towards it? I also thought, do the Venin have some kind of "collective mind"? Just a little bit of thinking in my tiny little brain
But the Sage/General also holds Xaden suspended in the air in the end of the book, right? 🤷🏻♀️ so I think it’s coincidental
I never got the part about shields up around non mind readers. Maybe it’s more for practice…
Right?? Maybe...
Xaden knows he is hiding being an intenstic, so who else could be hiding mind powers? Better safe than sorry
I think Dain is so confused on what Xaden meant because he had stolen so many memories from Violet and couldn’t pull/remember this single instance.
Also any thoughts on how Ridoc’s surprise and shock to Dain’s signet the thing that sprouted something in Dain that Varrish is lying and why he then stops trying to reach for Violet?
Xaden didn’t want Violet to stay with her sister lol
I would chose daddy X too, sorry sis.
OMG I totally buy the half-sibling theory
GOD, fucking dammit Dain despite his arc, I'm not ready to forgive him.
I do NOT think the Sage is Xaden but I DO think they might be related, same for the general who I honestly think is not dead yet, I am getting paranoid with the dead-not dead people.
In RSC, I didn't like that Ridoc did not share a real secret, I think he just deflected the question but not sure why, we don´t know much about them and that was a great opportunity. I think we need to know more about all of them and their lifes before Basgiath.
I think we need to extent the phrase: "GOD, fucking dammit" to Nolon, Jack, Cat and maybe others along the series.
With Jack, the thing is that he was a very bad person already so mending his soul would be particularly difficult or impossible, now we suspect that Nolon tried before Jack with another person, and he said there is no cure, because is not an illness and is not broken, so will have to wait for Rebecca to explain this to us.
Caroline will play a bigger part in all of this sooner or later, and I am already hating her LOL!
I wanna know if the red eyes for venim are like red rimmed eyes or it is around their irises? the latter would make it easier to hide it at the first stages.
I LOVE Aaric too, I need to know more about him.
Can´t wait to next week episode.
P.S: I was analzing your schedule for Iron flame and got paniced, how am I supose to do when HOFAS comes out and my brain shifts to SJM Multiverse when Iron flame would not be over yet? I really don´t know
i really wantthe prine to have a fun sassy love intrest!!
Not Nicole turning into a venin in the middle of the recording
Bahahaha
1:41:19 I DON’T TRUST DAIN!!!
Nicole looked so bored during the archives section 😂
20:22 i hope miras love interest is Syrenas cousin gryphon rider drago love
I DO NOT trust that dagger from Kat.
47:01 devera is more of the minerva rip maggie smith
Come through ad revenue!!!
I do not trust Mira. I didn’t trust her in Fourth Wing.
@ 1h27 about varrish shields.
What if he did it on purpose?
What if varrish knows that X is an inntinnsic (going here with the theory varrish is a venin and venin know)
And he lowered his shields so that X sees that - to push X to get destabilized (because there is nothing he can do about it)
And like this X’s shields “fumble”
Varrish is like so in love with xaden in chapter 35 - going on and on about how Xaden is the better stronger rider of his generation
But he (varrish) managed to see his weakness - just for a second - because his shields fumbled.
In chapter 35 - varrish on the bridge of dying did not give anything away.
So his shields were rock solid - while dying.
I can’t believe he was just walking by them - threatening them - with no shields
Do we actually know where Papa or momma sorrengail come from? Are there any tyrrish ties?
is their discord only for their cadests and dragon riders?, I mean the fantasy fangirls
Yes, Discord is a perk for both Patreon tiers ☺️
Dain thinks he didn't do anything wrong by reading Violet's memories because he was only using his signet, like all other riders do every day. Xaden uses his shadows to get information, Imogen wipes memory, and Body counters signets. How those aren't violations of their privacy? Many riders kill others with their signet. I'm still angry at him for not listening to Violet from day one, but from simple logical viewpoint: this is his signet, using it is not wrong. Don't hate me 😂
I am worried about Garrick. I wonder if Garrick is going to backstab Xaden. We don't see Garrick's and Xadens friendship like that either.
I do wonder if the first venin comes from the first 6/7 that the rider went corrupted
Just wanted to give you ladies some feedback. I was really excited when I saw you were doing recaps on chapters in iron Flame however I don't want to listen to it because if I'm only just finished chapter 27 I don't want to know what happens at the end I'm scared to listen to it. And when I finish the book I'm not going to want to come back to listen to this. I want your opinions views everything on those chapters as I'm going along I don't want to have to go back in time after I finish the book. It would be nice if you guys just covered this chapters and anything before those chapters is fine Just not anything after those chapters. I hope that makes sense
While we can understand the frustration of not wanting future chapter spoilers in these recaps, we would lose a big part of our deep dive and theory discussions that make this podcast what it is if we shifted how we cover our spoiler content. If you're interested in revisiting the book when you finish, we'll be here. Hopefully in the future as we grow and create more content, we'll be able to cover fantasy books with different spoiler levels.