I’m going to give this a try. I am 57 next month with a max HR of 185 and resting HR 38-40. 180-57 = 123 is like a fast walk. I am fairly fit as a sprint triathlete and I notice that 145 bpm is the sweet spot for easy conversational running. Additionally, I feel fully recovered the next day. This new formula you provided is very accurate for me
Hello, yes I think you will definitely get results using this formula! I’m surprised of how many people this is working so far. It sounds like you’ve sussed yours out by yourself at 145 but I’m glad to hear this matches perfectly for you. Let us know how you go with it please if you get a chance. Best of luck
you made my day with this video. i'm 41 but my max hr is 193 if not higher and running at 139 maf is an absolute torture. i'll give this method a go and run between 143 and 153
The thing is though, the MAF formula is a little bit more than just 180-age. 180- Age(37) Illness-10 Injured-5 Over fat-5 Consistent training=same Training over 2 yrs with improvement +5 Over 65+10 My target MAF=138 So range is 10= 128-138 And the Hr you find should be the max, and you want to train ideally average of up to 10 below the Max you find. Takes a while but eventually you will increase pace at the same HR. I by mistake trained at 147bpm for a year, did get faster at that bpm. But once I recalculated to 137bpm. My endurance has just improved massively. Completed a full distance Iron man anyway. I tried to stay below 160bpm all day. I know for a fact I wouldn’t of made it if I was still training with that sort of Heart rate (160bpm) I also have a high max for my age 190. And actually hit 209bpm on the iron man swim at the panicking stage for the first 10mins😳
Impressive work Shaun getting an Ironman done! Good advice on the MAF too. I’ve never been a fan of any age based formula and he even says himself that lab testing is preferable if it’s an option. I try to encourage people to find their own personal MAF number which has worked for quite a few people but yes I understand that just running at the lower end of your given MAF HR will be very beneficial. I found that running at top end maf helped me flow better and left me with less fatigue in my legs than when I was trotting around at what felt a bit ‘too’ easy. All a game of trial and error I suppose but I’m glad to hear your MAF has worked so well for you! Great work
Nice! I am 54, I used the 180 minus age = 126, it was way to easy, I then added 5bpm = 131, then added another 5bpm, 136 - eventually, negatively affecting my run times. I had done testing for Max HR, a while ago now - 186 (Garmin Test), rounded it to 190. I took my max HR, 190 - 54 = 136 x 70% exertion = 95.2 + 54 = 149.2, wham bam, feels great and run times started to improve again - I try and stay 148-153. (With the option to actually increase this very slowly as I get fitter over time) So, using the method you suggest: 220-190 = 30, 180-30 = 150 Zone2 HR - Smack on for me. I think what I am suggesting is that everyone will be different, but, people really need to test their MHR to be able to achieve better results from Zone2 style of training. Thanks, great input.
Hey Cosmos. Yes I absolutely agree with you in testing different ways to find your zones. I’ve tried all sorts, lab test, karvonen, lactate threshold tests, max HR tests, all sorts. It’s really worth doing it all and to learn what easy ‘feels’ like to. Good for you for getting it done accurately!
I was trying to do Zone 2 training, which going off of the 80/20 calculator my max was 150. It has been frustrating running because I have had to stop and walk so much since I’d be tipping over to Zone 3 very easily. Between this calculation and the Karvonen, I’m at more 155. I am hoping that this amount of wiggle room will help me to run more and walk a little less. Thanks for this!
This may be the gold. I was running at 137 MAF and I have had nothing but slower and slower MAF runs. I have definitely deconditioned. I previously did Zone 2 run at 147. I always saw improvement. Your new calculation is exactly 147 for me - what I was doing before. I will go back to what I was doing.
Heys that’s good news. I’m sure MAF is set purposely low but for some it’s too low and like you said, you can easily start to decondition. Hopefully this can get you back on track. Good luck
That is a rather interesting calculation. My son, a newly minted sport scientist, worked out my Max hr at 176 bpm, and when I apply this calculation I get a MAF hr of 136 bpm. My son calculated my zone 2 hr at 138 bpm. That's pretty close to the same outcome. Most of my easy and long runs average around 137 bpm, which is right in the middle.
Hello, that’s great! This calculation seems to work well for most people I’ve passed it on to. I’m going to a lab for testing next week for the first time so I will see how accurate the scientific calculation is to this one. I’ll make a video on that next weekend! Thanks for writing and good luck 👍🏼
FYI this is actually your actual real MHR - 40, which is simpler. E.g. 220 - 193 = 27, then 180 - 27 = 153... Or just 193 - 40 = 153. It's effectively the difference between 220 and 180 (40) being the thing. This is actually closer to my conformably slow rate. At 41 I've hit over 200 BPM and this morning was singing at 175 BPM, but MAF wants me at 139, which is not much over my walking pace.
😂 oh yeah, so it is. I made hard work of that but ultimately the same number. I think a load of people could benefit from using these calculations and I’m the same as you. 158 is the top end of my easy zone from a threshold test but my MAF is 143 so I met in the middle now and run at 150. Works a treat
That’s great news! The formula seems to work for people. I was the same with aching legs from running slow. Well done for working out what’s right for you.
Good info mate. If I ever try MAF or low HR training again I'll bear this in mind. I'm 46 so using 134, with my excitable heart means I'm walking a lot, especially with all these hills to...erm.... enjoy around here 😁🏃♂️👍🏻
Interesting method. Defo makes sense. For me my regular math is 159 and this one suggests id be fine at 165. Only when the weathers good tho i can sustain that heart rate for hours with ease. Great vid man and maybe 30 day strenght training? Very under rated for runners if ur not already doing it
Wow, 165 is high up there! If 159 works then keep at it but it’s worth seeing if 165 works if that’s how your heart runs. I do small amounts of strength training, probably not as much as I should so I’ll have a think to see if I can make a 30 day thing. Thanks for the suggestion 👍🏼
This is a fab idea. I really struggled with a maf rate of 134 and I gave up. But now I'm coming back from an injury this could be the answer 😁. Thanks.
@@StevoRuns Update: New MAF calculation and a chest HRM has changed everything. The new rate of 155 is much more achievable and has made running fun again. It turns out my heart rate was much lower than what my garmin said (201!!) Which means I dont have to walk as much. I've learned that MAF running is something that cant be done in group training. I have to go alone. I've got used to it now and i like the freedom of choosing the route/time that suits me. Once a week I meet with my club which is usually intervals or tempo which I need too. Overall things are going much better and I've no injuries so I'll stick with it as much as possible.
I would actually love to try that challenge but it’s honestly hard to even get 4 runs in per week at the minute. That’s definitely one to keep though until my little baby is a bit older and less needy 😂 good suggestion, thanks!
Love the videos, I live in socal and I am so jealous of where u can run. I saw an analyst say that hbm for women is higher per effort because our hearts are smaller. So I m gonna look at that and your info and up my goal bpm by 15 to 20. Challenge: jump rope 1000 skips a day for 30 days
Hi Colleen. I guess it has pros and cons of where we can run but its pretty boring to look at round here compared to Socal but yes I know what you mean! Interesting about the smaller heart for ladies! I would definitely consider sticking your max HR up as you said and see how you go! Let me know please how it goes for you. I do own a skipping rope actually I’ll have to see if I can do them still, thank you!
This is just max heart rate minus 40 right? It seems good, but I don't see why the math needs this many steps. You can get the same number simply by MHR-40. 40 being the difference between 220 and 180.
Yes 😂, I should have put more thought into how to simplify it. People have noticed that before i did. Either way though, it seems to work well for most which is great.
Really interesting, I tried a few zone 2 sessions based on the zones calculated by my Garmin and I was pretty much walking to keep my heart rate down. Since re calculating the zones using Heart Rate Reserve rather than Max it seems more accurate, I’m going to go back and see how this calculation relates. Thanks for the info
A challenge worth doing is "Run every hour on the hour for 24hrs" Pick a target distance for your runs : I did TARGET of MIN run 1mile, Ave Run 1.6mile (so i did just over 38miles in the 24hrs) I've done this a couple of time now and it is harder than you think
Jesus Will, that sounds brutal 😂. I like the sound of it but I’d like to drag one out over 30 days so i can bring results to people to see if it’s worth trying for themselves. I’ll keep that in mind and you’re mad if you’ve done it twice already so fair play to you.
Hi Julie. Makes you think doesn’t it? I’m sure that’s why MAF doesn’t work for everyone…. that calculation can’t possibly work for everyone! If you ever do MAF again you could happily go at 145 and see how that feels and go from there then who knows it might kick on more for you.
It’s frustrating John. I’ve had some success with this method which I’m still documenting now. Having a higher HR can definitely make normal MAF hard to get to work so it’s worth a shot. Cheers
Thanks for this video, this makes sense to me, my MAF is 121 but I have been adding 20bpm as after three months I had no improvement and my max heart is 20bpm higher that the 220-age.=141 bpm so the same.
This calculation would change my MAF from 143 to 163, which is a massive leap. This is going off my max heart rate of 203bpm that I reached in a 10k last weekend (average for the race was 193). Looking back at my 10k PB at the end of 2019 my heart rate was over 200 from kms 4-10 and my half marathon PB had an average HR of 193bpm (although these two were recorded with just a Garmin watch HR, not the strap). This means I spent more than half of all those races in Zone 5, which is ridiculous when google says this zone can only really be maintained for 30-120 seconds. Something's not right.
Hello mate. That is a huge leap as you said but one that I would definitely look further into! I’m the same as you and my zones we’re definitely set wrong for me as I could run in zone 5 for way too long. That’s what brought it to my attention at the time. If your maf number works as it is, which it seems to, then it’s not a worry but if you are hoping to get faster still then there’s no harm in trying out some higher HR efforts to see how you feel. Im glad I did for me. You’re right, something is not right there and I suspect it’s they your heart runs way higher than the average person!
Great vid mate be interested in how you fair with the new HR, my Maf pace is dog crap atm so may give this a go lol but i drink alot :P and sleep is terrible so is deit so im my worst enemy ha maybe i should clean up my ways hahahaha just love pizza and whiskey too much hahahaha
Mate it’s hard to not do all those things haha one thing at a time. Your maf time will sort itself out in no time but yeah I’d say give the alternative calculation a go and see how you get on
Interesting that. There is no MAF for old folk so it has been suggested to add 10 beats. That’s worked for me now this past 7 mo. The method you mentioned would give me 5 more beats. Well within a tolerable adjustment. How about a 30 day meditation challenge? Just 10 min per day.
Hi David, I guess you shouldn’t change a formula that’s working but good to know the calculations I mentioned would fit for you if you ever wanted to try it out. Meditation is actually a good call I’ll look into it 👍🏼
@@StevoRuns your country mate Andy Puddingcombe created Headspace. I think it’s brilliant and I believe it has a free element that your could use, for the challenge or just self improvement.
Hi sorry if you’ve covered this and I missed it but have you seen improvement on your MAF test with the new formula? Sorry not got any suggestions for the challenge but congrats on ditching the coffee.
Great info Steve. Have been following your videos and they make good sense. I started full MAF training for 3 weeks already. Currently running at around 11 min/mile. I haven't seen much progress, but maybe because it's still too early. I did had a 5k race 2 months ago and during the last mile I was at 193 HR avg. Maybe I'll continue using the 180 for 3 months, and if I don't see progress, I'll up the max HR like you suggested. What do you think?
Hey Khoa Le, yes it is early days but I wouldn’t hesitate in using a higher number to be honest. Your max HR will likely be higher than 193. What is your MAF HR now out of interest? It won’t harm to stay as you are for 3 months like you said but if that feels too easy and has little progress then use the formula in this vid or do a threshold test to see where your zones lie and continue MAF with a number more suitable to you. Hope this helps
I’m going to give this a try. I am 57 next month with a max HR of 185 and resting HR 38-40. 180-57 = 123 is like a fast walk. I am fairly fit as a sprint triathlete and I notice that 145 bpm is the sweet spot for easy conversational running. Additionally, I feel fully recovered the next day. This new formula you provided is very accurate for me
Hello, yes I think you will definitely get results using this formula! I’m surprised of how many people this is working so far. It sounds like you’ve sussed yours out by yourself at 145 but I’m glad to hear this matches perfectly for you. Let us know how you go with it please if you get a chance. Best of luck
you made my day with this video. i'm 41 but my max hr is 193 if not higher and running at 139 maf is an absolute torture. i'll give this method a go and run between 143 and 153
Ah lovely mate, that will make hell of a difference for your running. 150bpm sounds like a sweet spot for you. Hope it works well for you!
@@StevoRuns yeah, i can keep 148 very easy but 135 - heeeeell no
😂
The thing is though, the MAF formula is a little bit more than just 180-age.
180- Age(37)
Illness-10
Injured-5
Over fat-5
Consistent training=same
Training over 2 yrs with improvement +5
Over 65+10
My target MAF=138
So range is 10= 128-138
And the Hr you find should be the max, and you want to train ideally average of up to 10 below the Max you find.
Takes a while but eventually you will increase pace at the same HR.
I by mistake trained at 147bpm for a year, did get faster at that bpm. But once I recalculated to 137bpm. My endurance has just improved massively. Completed a full distance Iron man anyway. I tried to stay below 160bpm all day. I know for a fact I wouldn’t of made it if I was still training with that sort of Heart rate (160bpm) I also have a high max for my age 190. And actually hit 209bpm on the iron man swim at the panicking stage for the first 10mins😳
Impressive work Shaun getting an Ironman done! Good advice on the MAF too. I’ve never been a fan of any age based formula and he even says himself that lab testing is preferable if it’s an option. I try to encourage people to find their own personal MAF number which has worked for quite a few people but yes I understand that just running at the lower end of your given MAF HR will be very beneficial. I found that running at top end maf helped me flow better and left me with less fatigue in my legs than when I was trotting around at what felt a bit ‘too’ easy. All a game of trial and error I suppose but I’m glad to hear your MAF has worked so well for you! Great work
Nice!
I am 54, I used the 180 minus age = 126, it was way to easy, I then added 5bpm = 131, then added another 5bpm, 136 - eventually, negatively affecting my run times.
I had done testing for Max HR, a while ago now - 186 (Garmin Test), rounded it to 190.
I took my max HR, 190 - 54 = 136 x 70% exertion = 95.2 + 54 = 149.2, wham bam, feels great and run times started to improve again - I try and stay 148-153. (With the option to actually increase this very slowly as I get fitter over time)
So, using the method you suggest: 220-190 = 30, 180-30 = 150 Zone2 HR - Smack on for me.
I think what I am suggesting is that everyone will be different, but, people really need to test their MHR to be able to achieve better results from Zone2 style of training.
Thanks, great input.
Hey Cosmos. Yes I absolutely agree with you in testing different ways to find your zones. I’ve tried all sorts, lab test, karvonen, lactate threshold tests, max HR tests, all sorts. It’s really worth doing it all and to learn what easy ‘feels’ like to. Good for you for getting it done accurately!
I was trying to do Zone 2 training, which going off of the 80/20 calculator my max was 150.
It has been frustrating running because I have had to stop and walk so much since I’d be tipping over to Zone 3 very easily.
Between this calculation and the Karvonen, I’m at more 155. I am hoping that this amount of wiggle room will help me to run more and walk a little less.
Thanks for this!
That’s great! It seems to be working for people and looks like it will for you too! All the best and let me know how you go. Cheers
This may be the gold. I was running at 137 MAF and I have had nothing but slower and slower MAF runs. I have definitely deconditioned. I previously did Zone 2 run at 147. I always saw improvement. Your new calculation is exactly 147 for me - what I was doing before. I will go back to what I was doing.
Heys that’s good news. I’m sure MAF is set purposely low but for some it’s too low and like you said, you can easily start to decondition. Hopefully this can get you back on track. Good luck
That is a rather interesting calculation. My son, a newly minted sport scientist, worked out my Max hr at 176 bpm, and when I apply this calculation I get a MAF hr of 136 bpm. My son calculated my zone 2 hr at 138 bpm. That's pretty close to the same outcome. Most of my easy and long runs average around 137 bpm, which is right in the middle.
Hello, that’s great! This calculation seems to work well for most people I’ve passed it on to. I’m going to a lab for testing next week for the first time so I will see how accurate the scientific calculation is to this one. I’ll make a video on that next weekend! Thanks for writing and good luck 👍🏼
FYI this is actually your actual real MHR - 40, which is simpler.
E.g.
220 - 193 = 27, then 180 - 27 = 153... Or just 193 - 40 = 153.
It's effectively the difference between 220 and 180 (40) being the thing.
This is actually closer to my conformably slow rate. At 41 I've hit over 200 BPM and this morning was singing at 175 BPM, but MAF wants me at 139, which is not much over my walking pace.
😂 oh yeah, so it is. I made hard work of that but ultimately the same number. I think a load of people could benefit from using these calculations and I’m the same as you. 158 is the top end of my easy zone from a threshold test but my MAF is 143 so I met in the middle now and run at 150. Works a treat
I am 73. Max HR 168. I was using the MAF method and my legs were killing me to run at HR 107. I train at 128 now and feel much better.
That’s great news! The formula seems to work for people. I was the same with aching legs from running slow. Well done for working out what’s right for you.
Good info mate. If I ever try MAF or low HR training again I'll bear this in mind. I'm 46 so using 134, with my excitable heart means I'm walking a lot, especially with all these hills to...erm.... enjoy around here 😁🏃♂️👍🏻
Cheers Mark. mate I would have give up low heart rate ages ago if it was hilly around here so I don’t blame you
Interesting method. Defo makes sense. For me my regular math is 159 and this one suggests id be fine at 165. Only when the weathers good tho i can sustain that heart rate for hours with ease. Great vid man and maybe 30 day strenght training? Very under rated for runners if ur not already doing it
Wow, 165 is high up there! If 159 works then keep at it but it’s worth seeing if 165 works if that’s how your heart runs.
I do small amounts of strength training, probably not as much as I should so I’ll have a think to see if I can make a 30 day thing. Thanks for the suggestion 👍🏼
This is a fab idea. I really struggled with a maf rate of 134 and I gave up. But now I'm coming back from an injury this could be the answer 😁. Thanks.
Hey Nuala, it’s got to be worth a try hasn’t it? What would your range be now if you go back to it?
@@StevoRuns
My new rate would be 155 which is much more manageable. I'll keep you posted 😁
@@StevoRuns
Update: New MAF calculation and a chest HRM has changed everything. The new rate of 155 is much more achievable and has made running fun again. It turns out my heart rate was much lower than what my garmin said (201!!) Which means I dont have to walk as much. I've learned that MAF running is something that cant be done in group training. I have to go alone. I've got used to it now and i like the freedom of choosing the route/time that suits me. Once a week I meet with my club which is usually intervals or tempo which I need too. Overall things are going much better and I've no injuries so I'll stick with it as much as possible.
How about a 30 day running streak. It's achievable with MAF
I would actually love to try that challenge but it’s honestly hard to even get 4 runs in per week at the minute. That’s definitely one to keep though until my little baby is a bit older and less needy 😂 good suggestion, thanks!
Love the videos, I live in socal and I am so jealous of where u can run. I saw an analyst say that hbm for women is higher per effort because our hearts are smaller. So I m gonna look at that and your info and up my goal bpm by 15 to 20. Challenge: jump rope 1000 skips a day for 30 days
Hi Colleen. I guess it has pros and cons of where we can run but its pretty boring to look at round here compared to Socal but yes I know what you mean!
Interesting about the smaller heart for ladies! I would definitely consider sticking your max HR up as you said and see how you go! Let me know please how it goes for you. I do own a skipping rope actually I’ll have to see if I can do them still, thank you!
This is just max heart rate minus 40 right? It seems good, but I don't see why the math needs this many steps. You can get the same number simply by MHR-40. 40 being the difference between 220 and 180.
Yes 😂, I should have put more thought into how to simplify it. People have noticed that before i did. Either way though, it seems to work well for most which is great.
Really interesting, I tried a few zone 2 sessions based on the zones calculated by my Garmin and I was pretty much walking to keep my heart rate down. Since re calculating the zones using Heart Rate Reserve rather than Max it seems more accurate, I’m going to go back and see how this calculation relates. Thanks for the info
Hey Liam, yes HRR is definitely the way to go as it’s your own personal data rather than calculating by age as not everybody is built the same way.
A challenge worth doing is "Run every hour on the hour for 24hrs"
Pick a target distance for your runs : I did TARGET of MIN run 1mile, Ave Run 1.6mile (so i did just over 38miles in the 24hrs)
I've done this a couple of time now and it is harder than you think
Jesus Will, that sounds brutal 😂. I like the sound of it but I’d like to drag one out over 30 days so i can bring results to people to see if it’s worth trying for themselves. I’ll keep that in mind and you’re mad if you’ve done it twice already so fair play to you.
Interesting! I didn’t have much success with MAF, my number was 132. With this calculation my number would be 150 which is a big difference!!
Hi Julie. Makes you think doesn’t it? I’m sure that’s why MAF doesn’t work for everyone…. that calculation can’t possibly work for everyone! If you ever do MAF again you could happily go at 145 and see how that feels and go from there then who knows it might kick on more for you.
great. ive been looking for this. ive been stagnant for 4 mos already...
It’s frustrating John. I’ve had some success with this method which I’m
still documenting now. Having a higher HR can definitely make normal MAF hard to get to work so it’s worth a shot. Cheers
Thanks for this video, this makes sense to me, my MAF is 121 but I have been adding 20bpm as after three months I had no improvement and my max heart is 20bpm higher that the 220-age.=141 bpm so the same.
Thanks John, it seems like a method that works for a lot of people so thanks for sharing that with us
This calculation would change my MAF from 143 to 163, which is a massive leap. This is going off my max heart rate of 203bpm that I reached in a 10k last weekend (average for the race was 193).
Looking back at my 10k PB at the end of 2019 my heart rate was over 200 from kms 4-10 and my half marathon PB had an average HR of 193bpm (although these two were recorded with just a Garmin watch HR, not the strap). This means I spent more than half of all those races in Zone 5, which is ridiculous when google says this zone can only really be maintained for 30-120 seconds. Something's not right.
Hello mate. That is a huge leap as you said but one that I would definitely look further into! I’m the same as you and my zones we’re definitely set wrong for me as I could run in zone 5 for way too long. That’s what brought it to my attention at the time.
If your maf number works as it is, which it seems to, then it’s not a worry but if you are hoping to get faster still then there’s no harm in trying out some higher HR efforts to see how you feel. Im glad I did for me. You’re right, something is not right there and I suspect it’s they your heart runs way higher than the average person!
Great vid mate be interested in how you fair with the new HR, my Maf pace is dog crap atm so may give this a go lol but i drink alot :P and sleep is terrible so is deit so im my worst enemy ha maybe i should clean up my ways hahahaha just love pizza and whiskey too much hahahaha
Mate it’s hard to not do all those things haha one thing at a time. Your maf time will sort itself out in no time but yeah I’d say give the alternative calculation a go and see how you get on
Interesting that. There is no MAF for old folk so it has been suggested to add 10 beats. That’s worked for me now this past 7 mo. The method you mentioned would give me 5 more beats. Well within a tolerable adjustment.
How about a 30 day meditation challenge? Just 10 min per day.
Hi David, I guess you shouldn’t change a formula that’s working but good to know the calculations I mentioned would fit for you if you ever wanted to try it out. Meditation is actually a good call I’ll look into it 👍🏼
@@StevoRuns your country mate Andy Puddingcombe created Headspace. I think it’s brilliant and I believe it has a free element that your could use, for the challenge or just self improvement.
Hi sorry if you’ve covered this and I missed it but have you seen improvement on your MAF test with the new formula? Sorry not got any suggestions for the challenge but congrats on ditching the coffee.
Hello. I’ve been getting improved results on the last 2 test and I’m due another one very soon so let’s hope for the same again 🤞🏼
@@StevoRuns that’s good look forward to seeing how you get on , I might give it a go once I get past my upcoming ultra 🙂
Great info Steve. Have been following your videos and they make good sense. I started full MAF training for 3 weeks already. Currently running at around 11 min/mile. I haven't seen much progress, but maybe because it's still too early. I did had a 5k race 2 months ago and during the last mile I was at 193 HR avg. Maybe I'll continue using the 180 for 3 months, and if I don't see progress, I'll up the max HR like you suggested. What do you think?
Hey Khoa Le, yes it is early days but I wouldn’t hesitate in using a higher number to be honest. Your max HR will likely be higher than 193. What is your MAF HR now out of interest? It won’t harm to stay as you are for 3 months like you said but if that feels too easy and has little progress then use the formula in this vid or do a threshold test to see where your zones lie and continue MAF with a number more suitable to you. Hope this helps